>> and we're blessed to have known her as a friend. >> that's all for now. i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> this is "dateline." >> how do you feel that so many people think that steven avery is innocent? >> it's emotional. they made him look like he was a nice person. what's happening is wrong. >> the evidence is beyond overwhelming. steven avery is guilty. >> i'm innocent. >> the story gripped the nation, in the series, "making a murderer." >> so many americans have learned about it. >> it's being heard around the world. >> steven avery and his nephew convicted of murder in the

killing of a young photographer. but were they really innocent? >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job against me. >> did you have a vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. >> for the first time on television a lead investigator defends his interrogation which led to the conviction overturned. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. al. >> i feel it was a real confession. >> we need you to be honest with us. >> right from wrong. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. and they got it in the worst way. >> the prosecutor fights back with an explosive book. >> people are going to hear the other side of the story. >> and a promise from steven avery's high powered new attorney. >> do you think you have new evidence that can free steven avery? >> we do. welcome to "dateline." it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all, steven

avery. he and his teenage nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of wisconsin photographer teresa halbach. then allegations of police corruption so explosive that investigators had been forced to fight back. two sides, one truth. who will you believe? the mystery of what happened here in this sprawling fields of rural wisconsin has cap -- captivated the country. >> we find the defendant steven avery guilty. >> reporter: in 2013, the netflix series "making a murderer convinced many that the two has been railroaded by law enforcement. it's a case "dateline" has been following for more than a decade. as the lawyers fight for them to be free from prison, we pose the questions that everyone has been

asking of the two men who helped to put avery and dassery behind bars. why would steven avery do this? >> that's a good question. >> reporter: we asked ken katz, who has written a book that revealed his provocative theory that steven avery made himself a murderer. >> he started planning this event the first day he went to prison. >> reporter: and we talked with tom fassbender, a lead investigator in this case, who has come under fire for this silent interrogation. you have stayed silent through the firestorm. why are you sitting here today? >> i finally realized that someone needed to speak out and tell the truth of what happened here. >> reporter: so, what did happen here? the story begins with the woman at the heart of this case, a 25-year-old photographer from wisconsin named teresa halbach. >> she just loved being behind the camera. >> kim peterson and teresa became friends in college.

they both worked at the same studio in green bay and she said teresa had a special way with the subjects. >> she could make them smile. i think that's what she loved to do. >> reporter: the two stayed in touch after they launched their careers. but that would all change suddenly on october 31, 2005. kim caught a story on the local news. teresa was missing. >> investigators say the photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine when she disappeared. >> i just kind of dropped knowing it was somebody i knew. >> reporter: what do you do at that moment? >> i felt helpless. because you want to just deny it. you want to try to get in touch with her. >> did you try to call her? >> i tried to text her. but no response? >> no response. >> reporter: wisconsin police launched a massive search. bolstered by volunteers. after two days, a big break.

>> we have found a rav 4. >> they found teresa's vehicle on the avery yard. >> reporter: tom fassbender from the wisconsin department of criminal investigation hustled over to the 40 acre stretch of land in manitowoc county. home of steven avery. had you heard his name before? >> only through the media. >> reporter: steven avery was a big story. he was convicted of rape but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him and he was freed. a freed man welcomed back into society with open arms and looking for justice of his own. >> were you aware he had filed a lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? >> yes, i heard that. >> reporter: avery was hoping that winning the $36 million lawsuit would help him get back on his face. >> he had an opportunity to make something of his life. it appeared he was headed in that direction. >> reporter: now, two years

after the convict then this poster boy for wrongful convictions was back in the news. not for a good way. >> i hope they find her. >> reporter: when tom fassbender came here he learned that hall back had an appointment for october 31th. >> this is teresa with "auto trader" magazine. just giving you a call to let you know that i can come out here today, in the afternoon. it will probably be around 2:00. >> reporter: steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and left around 2:30 p.m. avery didn't tell them much more. but for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresa's suv. >> we find teresa's blood in the vehicle, primarily in the cargo area of the rav-4. >> and in the front, more blood.

>> there was blood on some of the upholstery and a very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. >> tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery? >> well, yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. if you took that key and put it in that ignition switch, it lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. >> how did he explain that cut? >> i'm not sure if i remember that. i think he claimed he cut in the junkyard doing work on vehicles >> reporter: fassbender feared the worst. after four days of searching his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> human bones. most interesting because family members told investigators steven avery built a bonfire

hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. >> it was a huge bonfire, flames going as high as -- you know, the edge of the roof on the garage. >> was it all making sense to you? >> looking at the whole picture, absolutely. >> and that picture came in to sharper focus when fassbender's team found another clue, teresa's key in avery's bedroom. >> the toyota key with the fob connector to it. >> this is huge. >> reporter: especially when the dna was found on it. and the evidence was stacking up against steven avery and fassbender said the rav4 would tell investigators one last thing. >> we had tested the hood latch and found dna matching steven on the hood latch. >> reporter: fassbender believed avery had some explaining to do nine days after the

disappearance, he and his partner brought avery in for an interview. "dateline" filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. >> you know the key is there because you put the key there. that's the only way the key gets there. >> no. >> yes, steve, yes. >> avery was defiant and even claimed cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> the cops have evidence. >> fassbender and wiegert weren't buying it and placed him under arrest. >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job on me. >> investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. coming up -- shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. >> teresa's creeped out. >> could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues. nexgard chew comes the confidence, you're doing what's right, to protect your dog from fleas and ticks for a full month. it's the #1 vet recommended protection.

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in january 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty of the murder of teresa halbach. and special counsel ken kratz began kronling his chase. he chronicled it in "avery." what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. >> better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in

"making a murderer." in his back book kratz laid out new details that he's never shared before. for one thing, kratz told "dateline" he believes steven avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer to october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got "auto trader's" records, he learned teresa had actually made five earlier visits to the avery salvage yard to make photos. some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach rather than going through "auto trader." >> and kratz determined on the day before one of these visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. when teresa arrived -- >> he answers the door wearing a small white towel. and teresa, we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that.

>> kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> that's a great question. you know, i don't know. we know he's a psychopath. we know that he has -- >> do we know that? >> well, i -- let's say, i allege that. okay? i believe that, deep down. >> kratz more in avery's past he wrote this letter from his s estranged wife in prison i will kill you and told police he physically abused her and kratz discovered even more he raped this girl after his release from prison. it all came together for kratz he believed avery had developed

a deep resentment for women had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years >> he has most remorse for his >> but kratz had a problem. you still didn't know how she was killed or where she was killed. was thater bothering you? >> sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> have a seat. >> reporter: in march 2006 four months20 after teresa's murder, tom and his partner mark spoke withs avery's 16-year-old neph brendan in a series of now highly scrutinized interviews. what was your first impression of brendan? he is shy kid. somewhat introverted. >> reporter: once he opened up, the detailspe he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her?

>> raped her. >> did he tell you that? >>ou fastbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that holiday afternoon his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer and he said they each sexually assaulted her and then burningsa her body in a bonfire. >> a game-changer. he told us stuff that we weren't aware oft that teresa was shotn the garage and died there. >> reporter: after speaking witd dassey, r:fastbender had his te return to the avery property once more and they found this in his garage. a bullet fragment. that was missed the first time around? >> it guess you could say it w missed but you're talking about a bullet frame, a 22 bullet frame and looks like a piece of dirt possible. >> reporter: it was tested? >> yes. teresa's dna was on that bullet and the bullet was shot from steven's rifle the one above his head. >> reporter: do you believe that teresa was shot in that garage?

>> yes. >> reporter: one strange thing. when s they searched the garage forch blood they never found a drop. how could you clean up all of that blood? >> they did to the best of his ability, i b guess. bleach. paint thinner that cleans up blood. >> reporter: teresa's friend kim said when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heartbroken. >> i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. kratz charged n brendan dassey as a coconspirator in her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder ofrt teresa hal bach. >> reporter: not so fast. dassey recannkanted hess statem and the judge dismissed and didn't allow anyis of avery's treatment of women and said they don't prove anything about

theresa'shi murder and avery wa never charged with assaulting his exfiancee or raping the teen. to this day he denies all of those allegations. those hand shackles and handcuffs never linked them to teresa's murder. but juries in separate trials convicted each and each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous one to set foot in there courtroom. >> reporter: eight years later, making a murder would put fastbenden arnd kratz and their entire team in the hot seat. >> coming up. >> did they plant evidence? sure they did. >> reporter: was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that blood could have been planted? >> when date line continues. pla? >> when date line continues.

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in december 2015, netflix released "making a murderer." and it ignited a bond fire of controversy over the convictions of steven avery and brendan dassey. now many viewers believed the claims avery had been making all along that he was framed by law enforcement. who would want to set you up in something like this? >> only thing i can think of is the county didn't want to pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? sure, they did.

>> kim is avery's cousin and said she predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated. >> something told me they wouldn't end the any kind of money and just watching him and look what happened. >> avery ended up settling that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. he used the money to hire his defense attorneys. >> we knew going in, it was going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to butting early in 2016. >> we had a tough defense in this case because nobody wants to try and use a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame

somebody. >> it goes against society. >> it does. >> these people are there to help us. they are the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> reporter: avery's attorneys thought the search made for a huge conflict of interest and for a possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say is from the evidence i've looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> reporter: preparing for trial, butting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his overturned rape conviction which had been sitting in the county clerk's office. >> found there is still a styrofoam box that had been split open with evidence taped. >> reporter: that was the big ah-ha moment? >> it was. >> reporter: and for many it was the moment in making a murderer. >> a little tiny hole. >> the attorneys theorized that somebody poked a hole inside

that vial and put his blood at the cream scene. your theory is the key was planted in the residence? >> that is where we thought the evidence was pointed. >> reporter: by police? >> by someone. it was not found in six or seven earlier entries to a trail and it didn't add. >> reporter: the colead investigator worked along the local county sheriff's deputies. this was the first time he responded publicly to the accusations against him and his former law enforcement colleagues. did you have any kind of v vendetta against steven avery or his family? >> absolutely not. i never knew his family and never been there. >> reporter: fastbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> people that were there, that i work with from the county were hard working. they only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way.

>> reporter: is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything -- all of the evidence says no. >> reporter: fastbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vial and at trial tests showed no presence of edta in avery's blood found in the suv. >> didn't match the edtk or the blood in the vehicle. >> reporter: fastbender's argument? since the blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical it couldn't have come from the vial and he notes a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> so the fact there is a little hole in the top of the vial is normal. >> reporter: and regarding teresa's car key not found until the seventh search of avery's trailer? why was that key missed during those other searches? >> well, primary because where the key was located in a small bookcase that was -- if it was

searched it was just looked at. >> reporter: why not do a thorough search earlier? >> i guess part of we didn't lock and load on season avery. we went in there and did that first search but we had 12 more buildings and four more residences to search so we had a lot to do. >> reporter: still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporters skeptical. it's who found it. these two men james link and andrew coburn. then with the county's sheriff's department. it turned out they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> when they were sgofdeposed w late found out. >> reporter: do you think they shouldn't have been in there at all just to avoid all of this speculati speculation? >> it's army to arm chair quarterback and second guess. i think we would have done that if we had the resources but you're talking about a small rural county being assisted by another smaller rural county,

you need resources. >> steven avery said these guys had it out for me and the whole department was angry for me and the perfect access to plant the key. >> i never saw that from anyone in the county. >> reporter: fastbender believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting the defense and how absurd it is with multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but that video of brendan dassey which would really put fastfender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of pretty much. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. they got it in the worst way. >> when "dateline" continues. n s here's your buick sir.

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for the first time joe biden is apologizing for his remarks about working with segregation senators. democratic front-runner said he regretted his comments from last month during a speech yesterday in sumter, south carolina. other contenders for democratic president made their pitch to the african-americans voters at the 2019 festival in new orleans. kamala harris took the opportunity to unveil $100 billion black home ownership plan. i'll see you at the top of the hour on msnbc live. welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. after all his nephew brendan confessed but did he tell truth or what he thought they wanted to hear?

here with more of our story is andrea cannon. >> all of the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case. brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder. but to his family, none of it ever made any sense. is brendan capable of rape? >> no. i don't think he knew what that was at the time. >> reporter: in 2008, attorneys steven and laura took up dassey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged teen with a low i.q. >> how do you spell -- >> gra-r-a-g---r---a---g---eg-- >> reporter: brendan is a simple soul and struck business hi humanity. this is not somebody i could see commit ago crime like this. that is the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based at the northwestern university

school of law in chill and worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants and say what they learned about dassey's case astounded them. >> nobody was in brendan dassey's corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> beginning they say with this man. give me one word to describe lynn. >> unbelievable. >> unconscionable. >> reporter: lynn came on board to defend dassey after that interrogation got avery's -- discovering the attorney made legal mistakes to cause him to be removed from the case. he has faced online vitriol from dassey's supporters. is it okay if i read comments? disgraced. a man with sakenickened soul. >> i've seen. >> reporter: at one moment working to cut with a plea deal had spoke with investigators but he didn't show up.

>> that was clearly a mistake. >> reporter: this is huge, though. >> i agree. >> you got a 16-year-old kid with a low i.q. with no attorney present, no parent. it's kind of like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan dassey? >> well, i'd apologize him for not being at that interview. >> reporter: there were mistakes made? >> oh, sure but -- >> there are people who disagree with that. >> oh, sure. >> reporter: but as dassey's attorneys delved further into the stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more disturbing. that investigators tom fastbender and mark uighur had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay?

what happened? you'll hurt yourself if you lie now. >> he has severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in a narrative type answers. and therein precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics that the police officers used in this case. >> reporter: the attorneys say that the investigators manipulated dassey with coaxing statements like these from fastbender who was seated just off camera. >> i'm your friend right now. >> they should have never made those kind of suggestions they want to comfort him and all would be well. those kind of fact ticks used on a kid like brendan are recipes for false confessions. >> they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know and

they knew what they wanted him to say. >> reporter: they accuse the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car hood latch? the attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car. >> reporter: dassey's attorney say in that same interview the investigators used another crucial detail they learned about the case from the forensics. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab

indicating for the first time how teresa had tied. she had been hot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way and they got it in the worst way by feeding it straight to brendan

dassey. >> even they know that that is bad police practice. >> reporter: then they discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them. something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. at the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, no, this is not true. they got to my head. >> reporter: but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself seize it all very differently. >> coming up. >> reporter: this was scene by many as a false confession. >> i feel a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this. >> when "dateline" continues. th >> when "dateline" continues

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for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. this was seen by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real confession. >> reporter: were you ever trying to extract a false constegs frco confession from him? >> absolutely not.

>> reporter: he denies -- >> i legitimately was concerned for him. that wasn't staged. that wasn't strategy. >> reporter: why do you think people took it the other way that the more sinister way, thaw were taking advantage of him? >> i think that's easy to do. it's a cynical approach, so to speak. watching tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies and trying to trick people in to saying stuff. everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. >> reporter: but comfortable might not be a word dassey supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. what about his i.q.? because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower i.q. >> i don't -- i don't assess i.q.s. i mean, i'm not -- >> reporter: could you it tell he maybe wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially, probably. i don't know across the i.q.

social line but he could think and he knew right from wrong. >> reporter: is it possible he is easily manipulated? >> it's possible. >> reporter: he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> reporter: he didn't know what was up and down. i don't know. just watching it. >> i don't know about that. my thought he had a million things going on in his head at that time. >> reporter: fassbender resisted that they planted ideas in dassey's head like the hood latch. what did brendan say? >> he agreed that steven had gone under there. >> reporter: you use the word "agreed." >> yes. >> reporter: so you brought it up first? >> yes. i believe so. >> reporter: that is one of the areas that you came under fire for? >> yes. >> reporter: is that you were planting things in his mind. >> yes, that's what they said. and there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an

interview. >> reporter: can we take that as a reliable answer, given how it was spoon-fed to him? >> well, your side would argue now and i would say based on the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >> reporter: and as for that other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. >> any regrets about that, bringing it up yourself, about putting that in his head? >> there is always things that you can improve on. there are instances because of brendan's personality that, yeah, we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions and that happens. >> reporter: what do you stay to those people who have made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who were yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job that you did? >> just that it's easy to arm-chair quarterback. it's easy to second-guess.

that i -- you know, that is partly why i'm here is to explain there was nothing nefarious done. >> reporter: even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate brendan. we tried to get at the truth and i don't believe that it was a false confession. are there parts of it that he may have not done? i don't know. you know? i just don't know. >> reporter: in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell in response to a brief filed by dassey's attorneys, judge william dunen ruled that dassey's confession was involuntary. with that the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. what was that like for you hearing that news? >> mixed emotions.

i know we did everything above board that one magistrate rules it isn't fine in his opinion, which is all right because that is the system. >> reporter: are you okay if he walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family is not okay. i believe brendan was involved in this, that he was there and he was involved in it. >> reporter: the wisconsin attorney general also believes brendan was involved in teresa's murder. he appealed the judge's order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. in september of 2017 that request was granted. the u.s. court of appeals heard arguments whether dassey's conif for example was coerced and nine months later, theyup held that dassey's confession was voluntary meaning the young man will remain in case. brendan dassey's lawyers have

vowed to continue to fight for his freedom. >> coming up. >> he told me to watch "dateline." >> in the steven avery case, how 6-year-old "dateline" led to a brand-new to a brand new a att. i said that's the woman who is going to get steven out of prison. in terms of treating sensitivity, 3 days is really fast. sensodyne rapid relief is a game changer. it's going to let the dentist offer their patient sensitivity relief in 3 days. say over the course of a weekend you're going to

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supporters had been hoping for good news and they kochbt know it yet, but help was around the corner. >> he was very gentle and very loving. avery's long-time friend and one-time fiance, she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his complicated case. during a call from prison, avery told her to watch "dateline." >> he had heard there would be this ferguson case on "dateline." he told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. >> that program from august 2011 told the story of ryan ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen zel ner was determined to get him out. >> nothing as riveting as this. when the trial has been lost and everything lost and somebody is innocent. it's the ultimate challenge, i think. >> i said that's the woman that's going to get steven out of prison.

>> she specializes in wrongful conviction cases and has freed many defendants, including ryan ferguson. sandy contacted her and she joined the case not long after making a murderer came out. we caught up with her at the correctional institution in early 2016 when she paid a visit to avery. >> question, do you think you have new evidence that could free steve avery? >> i believe we do. her office was dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> and she even showed us this rav4 she bought to get a better understanding of teresa's vehicle. then in august of 2016, to much media fanfare, she found a motion in manta back county court. >> we'll find out if the evidence was planted. >> she's known as an aggressive

defense attorney. >> chief legal correspondent for msnbc. >> she's looking for new evidence to argue the entire case was done the wrong way. she's basically trying to put the state on trial. >> in her motion, she attacks law enforcement, tries to poke holes in the prosecution's case and raises new questions. >> she notes that teresa's cell phone pinged off a cell phone tower 13 miles away later that day, suggesting maybe she left there alive. there's also indications that other people, not from law enforcement, entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. >> and she's won an early round. in november 2016, a judge granted her access to some of the evidence so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on avery's blood from the rav4. in june 2017, zell ner requested

a new trial tore avery. she said we'll be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. avery, she says was framed for a crime he did not commit. but in october 2017, a wisconsin circuit court denied that request. she petitioned the judge's ruling to the wisconsin court of appeals and promised that she's just beginning to fight. as for former prosecutor ken krats and his new book, he dis -- she says there was no proof that mr. avery was becoming obsessed with her and rehashing a story about inadmissible evidence seems pointless. she also notes that mr. kratz has no qualifications to

diagnose avery as a psychopath. krats who prosecuted steven avery and brendan dassey is undaunted. >> are you afraid of kathleen zellner? >> no. i'm not involved in the case anymore. i shouldn't be afraid of anything. my involvement -- go ahead. >> she could unravel your work if what she's saying has weight to it. you don't think she has a chance? >> i don't. >> if she's so confident, why are you so confident? >> because we spent 18 months putting the case together. it wasn't a bunch of keystone cops. it was done very professionally and very well. >> kratz has personal regrets. in his book, he admits to past prescription drug abuse and sent sexually suggestive texts to a domestic violence victim, a scandal that led to his resignation.

he still takes issue with making a murderer, he's moving on with his life. i'm hoping the book changes the narrative. >> with all the talk of guilt or innocence, kim peterson says the person forgotten is her friend, teresa. >> she is the reason why we're each talking about this. she deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, kim goes back to this grainy video diary teresa made. it was played at avery's sentencing. >> i love taking pictures. i love holding a camera in my hand. >> it gives me the chills every time i hear it because she talked about everything she loved. >> is there anything you would say to teresa right now if she could hear you? >> just that you're still in my heart and i'll never forget you. >> i just want to know whenever i do that, i want people to know

whenever i die, that i was happy. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning. i'm dara brown in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. here's what's happening. the president and the polls. the issues important to the voters and how the president fares against the top democratic candidates. >> was i wrong a few weeks ago? >> i felt just grateful. >> joe biden's apology and the reaction on the campaign trail. why he may not have put the backlash to rest. >> the leader of the free world with a tweet can start a war. >> former first lady michelle