look at the time. that does it for me for this hour. i'll take a short break and see you at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. now, it's time for "up with david gura."

♪ this is "up." i'm david gura. big, breaking news overnight. jeffrey epstein arrested at a new york airport for alleged sex trafficking. we'll tell you about the charges the billionaire faces. in south carolina, joe biden apologizes for a set of remarks he made a week ago. the vice president defends his record on civil rights. >> that misstep defined 50 years of my record, fighting for civil rights. racial justice in this country. i hope not. i don't think so. >> it's been more than two years since barack obama left the white house. but he's president trump's david foil. michelle obama does not shy away from criticizing the current president for being too cavalier.

>> this is not a joke. this is not a game. the leader of a free world with a tweet can start a war. can crush an economy, can change the future of our children. >> it is sunday, july 7th. something we're going to get to later in the show, is if latino voters care if a presidential candidate speaks spanish. >> either trying to lock up the his sp h hispanic vote. >> we're going to start this

morning with an apology from former vice president, joe biden. at an event, he said he was sorry for comments he made for his early days in the u.s. senate. he spoke fondly about having a good relationship with two senators in particular, most of whom were segregationists. >> folks, was i wrong a few weeks ago, to somehow give an impression to those that i opposed time and again. yes, i was. i regret it. and i'm sorry for the pain or disconception i may have caused nibble. >> "the los angeles times" notes, it was an unusual break for a politician, who rarely apologizes. he is going over his 40-year record on race issues. a slip in the polls after his performance in the nbc news debate, which featured a heated exchange between the former vice president and kamla harris,

about federally mandated bussing to integrate schools. he stopped for that position and accused both parties of trying to, as he put it, weaponize his record. >> i'm going to let my record not be smeared. >> senator cory booker was the first to call on the former vice president to apologize. he had this reaction. >> i felt just grateful that he is now speaking to his past. in a way with candor and regret. >> mike is covering the campaign and is joining us now. let me ask you how expansive this was. he apologized for offending those that didn't like his

relationship several decades ago. how out of character was this for joe biden? >> absolutely, david. i've been covering joe biden for a long time. he's proud of his record. he doesn't like to apologize. it's interesting. this was much more than a speech about apologizing for a couple weeks' old comments. it was a speech where he hugged closely his relationship to barack obama. this is a broader and expensive speech than we expected. this was a defense by joe biden of his entire political career and his whole way of viewing politics. he not only got into these issues that stem from the two to three-week-old comments about working with segregationists. he talked about the crime bill of 1994 and said, i take credit for the things that were good and responsibility for the things that were bad. there were pre-emptive

positions, on the bankruptcy bill, for example. senator warren is ready to take aim at that. the biden campaign, and the conversations i had with advisers leading up to the campaign, they knew his record in the senate was going to be an issue. i think they expected the attacks from his rivals to be more ideological in nature than personal in nature. what i heard from the campaign is they viewed the attacks coming -- the efforts by his opponents to highlight the relationships with segregationists to talk about his past position on bussing as personal. whether or not it suggests that joe biden is racist, but has tendencies out of step with the democratic party. this is an effort to reframe his career, take back the narrative of his career and say, i want to focus on the featuech future. i will hold up my past against anybody in the party.

barack obama knew about my record. he vetted me. >> we have spoken in the past about joe biden's need to do this. there are the issues, the bankruptcy, the crime bill. things he could address and get ahead of. he delivered the speech. >> either apologize right then or don't apologize at all. let's talk about the asymmetry of the situation. on the democratic side, apologies are expected, needed, demanded. you saw cory booker who had been critical of joe biden's comments about segregationists to take that on gagain and to talk abou

it. we knew it would be the good with the bad with joe biden. he has a long record. if he makes it into the general election by republicans, he is also the vice president who served with barack obama for two terms. that's a powerful message for african-american voters t. he's not wrong the if it was worth for the first black president to choose me, why wouldn't voters do the same? >> let's look at the comments that the vice president had from that speech in sumpter. >> they don't want to talk about my time as vice president of the united states. it was the honor of my lifetime, to serve with a man, who is a close friend. i was vetted by he and ten serious lawyers he appointed. and he selected me. i'll take his judgment over my record and ability to handle the

job more than anyone else's. >> you've met him. we've seen all of the candidates going to south carolina, as this is more african-americans, and get more going to the primaries. what do you make of that? the resonance that will have in south carolina. >> i think it will play with the black electorate in south carolina. i don't think he will get the trump electorate in south carolina. i'm talking about south carolina. i think the problem, with biden, and in france and looking from afar, is the sleepy joe thing, is going to stick. he doesn't have juice. >> he needs to get some. >> he needs to get some and doesn't have it.

whether it's for a black or white audience. right now, somebody who feels dynamic and has a lot of punch. >> voters come for the polls and volunteers if there's passion there. >> he is. and there has to be substance. people have to touch you and you have to touch them. they have to want to have a beer with you. let's get back to biden and your comments. the hardest and the easiest language in english is, i'm sorry. you hear me? with all of the advisers, all he had to do was, i don't think joe biden is a racist. he could have apologized and taken the wind out of kamla harris' cell. he didn't do it and didn't want

to do it. where does that leave us? it leaves us with losing points in polling. two or three weeks to apologize before he does. can he get his mojo back? >> support for biden, among blacks. a voting bloc was cut in half with two out of ten saying, they back president obama's four out of ten in the june poll. we heard the response from cory booker. what are you making of the speech that the vice president gave yesterday? >> as soon as we heard the words of i'm sorry, there was applause from the audience. there is a keep reservoir among african-american voters. they talk about, he was a loyal vice president. he served with barack obama. that's real. last week, he was at the rainbow

push coalition in chicago. yes, it was a tough moment in the debate. they're not leaving his side. you think about it this way. there's a risk in joe biden hugging on to barack obama too closely. barack obama was an eight-year hit tv show for a lot of democrats. he's attempting to be a spin-off. the suggestion is that if you choose this show, there might be a cameo appearance. if we get biden in the white house, barack will be there, too. and his name is powerful. hearing joe biden, you get support and praise. >> the way we've talked about politics has changed. thank you for your time. coming up, the story that the daily beast broke overnight.

jeffrey epstein arrested for sex trafficking allegations. the charges he faces, next. the gumline... for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. oral-b. brush like a pro. introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪

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this is "up." i'm david gura. we have details on the arrest of jeffrey epstein. he was taken into custody for alleged sex trafficking. he pled guilty in 2008 for

soliciting an underage victim, is expected to face charges for his involvement in dozens of victims in new york and florida, between 2002 and 2005. alex costa was the prosecutor who signed off on it. but one official said that epstein allegedly paid cash for massages and sex acts. some of the victims are 14 years old. "daily beast" broke the story. and jeffrey epstein is supposed to make an appearance in court in new york. get us up to speed. what do we know? how did this arrest take place? >> our understanding is that jeffrey epstein was in teterboro airport. he was placed under custody. we expected to be in a court as soon as tomorrow, to face two coun counts tied to sex trafficking. this is a case, i know somebody

in the florida law enforcement circles, when i first started looking into epstein several years ago. this is, by the way, a portion of the actual florida case file, which i have. nbc news obtained through public records laws. they describe this case as sad. this is a case at the time, the detective who investigated it as he passed away. joe would be followed by epstein's attorneys. he would be out with his kids at a park. and he told me that his security people would take pictures at him and snap away with his kids at a park. for what reason? i think there's a lot of people that were concerned with the way this case was handled. we know that officials are coming forward with a significant case against him. and these allegations have to do between 2002 and 2005.

so, it's a significant case. >> "the new york times" saying this is an extraordinary series of events in a long and sordid criminal case. help us understand how that might go forward. >> part of that nonprosecution agreement was signed with the state. so, there's a little bit of a gray area here, as far as how much that mpa covers. and if it covers the time period in question. that's something we have to get a better handle on. we've seen discussions about the mpa, in court papers tied to civil litigation in this case. what we don't know are the specific parameters of that. we don't have it in totality. that will guide us. a question we have for the u.s. attorney tomorrow.

i want to get your reaction to what we are doing overnight. >> a couple things. the jononprosecution agreement, it's state-based. the federal charges between 2002 and 2005. it can be the same allegations but it will be new allegations and it covers new york and activities here. if the feds didn't sign off on the nonprosecution agreement, you will have no that's a fact. the corruption district is involved. they're leading with the prosecution. that's interesting. what's your take on that? why they're leading the prosecution? >> that is correct. they are the lead, the public corruption unit is the lead behind this. i think it's interesting. i think it will bear watching, as far as any questions. i think there's been questions throughout this process, whether

or not -- it may not be acosta. it could be state prosecutors in florida. it could be other individuals. was there some sort of an issue here from a standpoint of a public corruption issue, as far as why jeffrey epstein was allowed to -- i think folks thought it was a very lenient nonprosecution agreement. and a lenient jail sentence he has to serve. and he has to look at a side deal that was brokered to your point. >> in most jurisdiction, the fed and the state will be fighting over who will prosecute first. here, you have the state doing a nonprosecution judgment. and then, the feds standing down to that story. >> it was unusual. it raised a lot of questions when it came up. as people read about it, we start to get the case files. as we started to look at the totality of the evidence here. and there's some shocking things

in these reports. clearly, according to the court documents and some of the things that jeffrey epstein pleaded guilty to, the documents make it clear. he preyed on a specific type of young girl. he preyed on young girls who didn't have a lot of money. may not have been, you know, attending the top schools. may have had their own personal troubles. may have been innocent victims that were totally wrapped up in this. and he paid them. he paid them to do sex acts for what were supposed to be massages. >> and he paid them to get other young people to engage, as well. why the feds took the position they took and stepped down. it's extraordinary. there is part of this case as it moves forward. >> julie brown is going to join us in the next hour. tell us about the well connected

of jeffrey epstein. as someone who knows president clinton well. wilber ross in florida, as well. he's somebody at the nexus of a lot of powerful men. >> alan dershowitz. prince andrew. we don't know completely the relationship that jeffrey epstein has with all these powerful people. >> there's no indication, as i said here at this point, because we haven't seen any of the charging documents. the recruiters to this point, that's something we're going to have to follow closely, from a political standpoint. i have in here, will take me a while to dig it up. fight records that the service detail on jeffrey epstein's plane. president clinton, that is. i think that's something we have to follow. it's possible this could be a one and done. it is something that we will

have to watch closely, with tentacles. >> that court appearance, scheduled to take place tomorrow. next on "up," a new report to show what families are preparing for the ice raids that president trump has promised. >> we will be removing large numbers of people. >> in a week? >> some time after july 4th. y 4. but only 11% of its executives are women, and the quit rate is twice as high for them. here's a hack: make sure there's bandwidth for everyone. the more you know.

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we are removing people, that have come in illegally. we are removing them and bringing them back to their country. this is "up." i'm david gura. and that's president trump promising the roundup of people with deportation orders could be away soon. they are stashing money and seeking out church pastors for advi advice. the raids will be called out if the democrats and republicans can work out a solution to the asylum and loophole problems at the southern border. we're getting a clearer picture at the border. democratic lawmakers visited border facilities in el paso and

clint, texas. >> there was a toilet but no running water for people to drink. in fact, one of the women said, that she was told by an agent to drink water out of the toilet. >> now, there's pictures. photos and video of the overcrowding that representative castro took during his visit, without per fissimissiopermissi. and these drawings of the children in the facilities. some said that democrats need to leverage our power in the house of representatives. politico noting that immigration is a divide over democrats. there is a sense, with these visits, with these pictures, something has changed. it's something that nancy pelosi

has counseled her troops to shy away from. has something changed over the last week? >> there's so much horror and despair and anger about the conditions and the private microdetention centers. and it's something that's shared widely across the spectrum. however, one can have a sense of something is not right. something needs to be changed. that doesn't translate it to policy. that's a problem with democrats across the board. they can oppose what president trump is trying to do. they can oppose the wall. what is the policy they're proposing? what would they do? if you took office and hundreds of thousands of migrants are trying to seek asylum in this country, what would you do? we got little reaction from them in this is how they would handle it. would they send them back to their home country? they oppose detention. are they going to shut down the

facilities? we don't have a coherent conclusion, of what should be done instead of what's happening now. >> the president has picked this issue. he wants this to be an issue going into the campaign. this is not good for the president of the united states. a progressive member of congress says, this isn't a political winner for the president. most people look at this and are repulsed by his actions. >> yeah. if you listen to what he's saying right now, there's no policy right there. you can't let people walk into the country. the wall is a crazy idea. and that's his great symbol. even the raids he is talking about, are about people against whom there's a final deportation order. he's not talking about expelling illegal immigrants or undocumented workers in the

country. but it's a dog whistle policy. >> 100%. >> that's what the democrats are reacting to. and that's why it may or may not be a winning policy for him. it's all about dog whistles. talking about the greatness of america. he was distinguishing them from the immigrants who built this country. he is pushing a dog whistle, racist, xenophobic policy. by focusing on issues, were anybody else voicing them, would not be unreasonable. >> he blows that whistle over and over again. he is not going to do it, he's going to do it again. >> his politics of a narrative he's driven. this overcrowding is a problem. we didn't have this before. he drove this narrative.

and the politics of pain and cruelty, to keep them out of the country is the problem here. i don't care what the democrats do or don't do. what we shouldn't be doing, we shouldn't be putting them in cages. we shouldn't be separating kids from their parents. we shouldn't have them drink toilet water. we shouldn't, we shouldn't, we shouldn't. i don't need a policy to know that the human condition isn't that and it isn't america. whatever they do, if they have a policy or not, they have to put more money into that program, whether you trust trump or not. and you have to stop caging the individuals and treating these individuals this way. that feeds his base, right? it doesn't feed american values and what represents the best of america here. >> you'll forgive me going back to the policy. and what in you get pushed on this.

there is an immediate need here. there's no immediate action on the part of the congress. >> certainly not. the problem needs to be solved in some way. nobody is coming up with a reasonable way to do this. we need to send more down to the border to question the asylum cases. you may be right. president trump and his administration are making things worse than they need to be. i know i'm right. i'm dead on with that. hundreds of people are going to be leave these countries and coming to this country. what do we do? >> we invest in the south american countries to give them less incentive to leave those, the poverty. you do jobs and job training. you give them incentive not to leave. and you treat them with human

dignity under international laws and you don't house them in cages. if you keep them in mexico or whatever the case may be. making conditions worse for you, doesn't mean you don't have to drive for the american dream. >> but it hasn't worked. >> trump's policies haven't worked, either. >> that's what i mean. there's a chart of detentions on the border. it shows you two things. in 2000, there were 1.6 million detentions at the border. now, we're talking about 200,000. the other thing it shows, is the detentions are higher now, under trump, than they were under obama. >> exactly. >> or bush. >> what is the crisis? the crisis is one that he has manufactured with his wall and dog whistle policies.

>> and zero tolerance policies. treating it as if it's a crime, no matter what. the policy is not working. >> when you had 1.6 million crossing the border, did that make america a more dangerous place? hell, no. america is safer than it ever has been. >> we will leave it right there. >> and another thing. >> another thing. there you go. who is going to make the cut? who is in and who is out? that conversation is next. atn i. (ding) hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪

this is "up." i'm david gura. the next democratic debate is rapidly approaching. there's only 20 spots. toe get a spot, the democratic has to poll 1% in three official polls. and he or she has to raise money from at least 65,000 unique boehners. 14 candidates have hit those marks. kamla harris, bernie sanders, pete buttigieg and elizabeth warren. seven have reached one of the criteria. and there's four in all likelihood are not going to make that stage. what has changed since the last debate? it can change the conversation in a week's time then back to normal.

you talk about win knowing the field. >> we feel like we drove the conversation. and people are talking about what came out of that. cnn has a tall act to follow. what's changed? steve bullock, the governor of montana, likely will make the stage. >> polling 2.5 million. he did not make our debate. if he gets in, who of the 20 in the nbc debate get knocked off? there's several people who are really kind of just down on the margin. if bullock gets in, automatically somebody else goes away. governor hickenlooper of colorado, had serious problems in his campaign. not raising money. a lot of turnover.

most of the top staff have left. it's not realistic. it won't happen for you this year. he's resisted that so far. there could be a chance he decides to end this campaign before the next debate. he could be running for senate, very easily. he's not interested in that. those are the optics that have changed. in terms of what we dealt with at nbc. cnn has the same situation. two nights, large stage, ten candidates. that may be too many for viewers who want to see things cut down. they will have that chance at september. >> how satisfying was it? >> they're not going to make it. people are going to make it and some are not going to make it. >> yeah. that's it. that's true. some 23 will not make it. >> i think the -- making it to

september -- i think it's in september, where there's doubles. you have to have the polling and have 130,000 donors. i think that will naturally weed it out. i think that biden and beto o'rourke will have strong performances next debate. beto o'rourke, right now, he is sliding in the polls. he's got the rhetoric, and what have you. he's not growing any. he's in the space with three or four people. every race is different. he raised a lot of money from around the country. that's a senate race, when everyone, all democrats, wanted ted cruise out. now, he wants that money and get in a race for the presidency. the supporters want him to run for the texas senate seat.

he has resisted that because he raised so much money. he has an opportunity to change, to grow, because he's got money. he has top staffers, right? they have to figure out how to put it all together. >> top staffers, including hickenlooper's. you have a big field. things focused. that's left the other group. criticism from people saying, stop talking about all of them. they fell into the margins on that debate stage. it has governed what people have been talking about, during the course of the last campaign since that debate. >> it has. >> the most damaging thing for the democrats and trump jumped on this immediately, is the idea of doing away with private health care. you would have national health care but not private health care. i lived in france.

we have private and national health care. >> it doesn't cost as much there as it does here. the majority of people in this country do have private health care. and they don't want to transition into a national health care policy. that was a big mistake. and you had every candidate raising his hand. >> one more issue that came out of the debate, that will probably agitate the moderate candidates. some said they favored decriminalizing immigration. that drove a lot of the conversation on the first night. now, all of the democrats will have to take a position on that. there's a thing that president trump and his supporters will get to. >> they are being treated, zero

tolerance. those violations were being treated that way. >> how do we say medicare for all in french? >> there is no translation. there's no translation. president obama left the white house two years ago. but will we ever get away from the obama blame game? >> oh. >> thanks, obama. >> thanks, obama. >> how president trump continues to go after his predecessor on issue after issue. he ran against him in 2016. is he going to run against him in 2020, too? they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa"

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this is "up." i'm david gura. today is july 7th, 2019. that's a reminder because you would be forgiven for feeling it is still 2016, how often donald trump talks about one barack obama. >> when obama -- president obama was here, he paid close to zero interest rates. i'm paying real interest. and our economy is better than it's ever been. >> two days ago. "the new york times" notes it took president trump 1:09 to go after his predecessor during that 20-minute gaggle with reporters on the south lawn. president trump mentioned

president obama by name 12 times. his playbook doesn't seem that different than 2016. but this time, he is running against someone that is not running. >> he's been talking about president obama but he is expanding that. let's listen to what president trump had to say. >> you look at what we're trading out, i call it the obama/biden mess. we're straightening it out. >> he is straightening it out. >> this is the newest it ration. >> it's useful for him because he expects that bide listen be his opponent. you're right. he has been talking about obama nonstop. in 2012, when he was thinking of running against president obama, that's when the birther crusade

began. there's a number of people in this country that are ready to believe that birther story and has one more reason to dislike or distrust president obama. he campaigned on the birther crusa crusade. why not keep it up? he knows there's people in his base that do not like president oba obama. let's face it. he's become much, much more popular. >> you look at the ratings now. >> he was talking about the federal reserve. the way the president talks about the economy. stock market is not the economy. stock market is doing well. he does levee a lot of blame on president obama, how he and his administration responded to a crisis.

>> there's a whole other world that president trump engages in and he talks about. we can't see that world, if you will. let's not forget with barack obama. he inherited the worst economy since the '30s. he turned this economy around. unemployment rates were down. and donald trump inherited one of the strongest economies. all of obama's policies. this upward drive is going to happen. it didn't bring everybody along but it had a long way to go. racism is at the root of this message. 40% of his die-hard supporters that ke can't grow from politically. a lot of this is rooted -- they disagree that an african-americ african-american, but a person of color, inherited the halls of the white house. that's why he can keep talking

about it. running against biden, as well. >> i agree with the racist element of it. will was another problem with obama. there he was rational and reasonable. >> i will tell you why it was a problem with trump's base. they don't go for rational debate. they go for emotions. >> it's like world wrestling entertainment that trump was involved in. you take a trump crowd at a rally, and you take a wrestling crowd, it's the same people. they will react the same way. there's no appeal to obama to that crowd. that's a problem with his political legacy. people saw him as condescending. they saw hillary as the queen of condescending. >> let me bring that back

full-circle. let me play a clip of joe biden doing on cnn. he is talking about health care and president obama's legacy. >> i think there should be health care for everyone. i have a plan to do that. it will cost a hell of a lot less and work. >> incremental? >> no. >> would you bring back the individual mandate? >> i would bring back the individual mandate? >> will that be popular? >> it's better than what's being offered. >> we talked about the way vice president biden invokes president obama to gain support of the electorate. he is adamant that he is looking forward to the future. but he is holding on to his legacy, the eight years. the most recent eight years as vice president to barack obama. >> it's the strongest thing he has going for him. he had run for president twice before this time. >> wouldn't have made the debate stage. >> failed miserably both times.

had this celebrated senator in the senate. vice president lifted him to another point, where he can be looked at as the front-runner in this field. it's the best part of his legacy. there's no question, he needs to turn a bit forward. >> thank you for being here. hey, scott. and chris dickey in from paris for the show. the fight over the 2020 census. a lawyer arguing against the inclusion of the census question will be next. (mom) so you have 10 years experience. (woman) i do. (mom) but no phd. (avo) first kid. (mom) here's all the numbers, food's in the fridge, oh and lucas likes to pull on jewelry, so you might want to lose the nose ring. (avo) by their second kid, parents are more likely to choose luvs. live, learn and get luvs.

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this is "up." we begin with president trump pushing for the citizenship question in the 2020 census. the administration regarded june 30th as a soft deadline, apparently. officials said this had to be decided by then because of logistics. from are hundreds of millions of pages to be printed. the justification has evolved in recent days. this is what the president had to say on friday. >> what you need is many reasons. you need it for congress. you need it for congress, for districting.

where is the citizens? >> the citizenship question could make it somewhere else. chris hamby focuses on the threat of disinformation campaigns, recommeminiscent of 2016 presidential cycle. he said it has provided fuel and they're starting to see coordinated online efforts to undermine public trust in the census and to sow chaos and confusion. agitators are using the citizenship question to help americans doubt the integrity of the census. president trump says there's four or five ways the administration thinks it can keep the citizenship question on the census. dale ho has been the point person for this. he joins me now. along with mike pescha, the host of "the gist."

and featuring the counterfactual by steve kornacki. the host of slate's "trump cast." christina greer is the associate detector. i need a podcast. all of that. on the south lawn, about this motivation, justification for including this question. how does that complicate the ongoing legal battle of the inclusion of this question? >> i think it highlights what chief justice found was so wrong about this. it is illegal to put the question on the census because the administration's rationale for it was contrived. and the administration didn't say, here's our real reason. something else. and what we come up with next.

you have pushed back the inclusion of this. help us understand the legal strategy you have as he floats that. you have hugh hewitt, saying this is the cure-all. this is a silver bullet. there's no more question about the legality of this. it's in the president's purview to do this. >> i think that's wrong. if it's illegal, it's illegal. there's an executive order on the wall. and daca has been blocked in court. it's not like an executive order is a magic wand that makes something otherwise illegal legal. >> does he know that? >> no comment. going to bring everybody else in the conversation. she was astounded that you would have lawyers lying about this. if there was a hard deadline, there's a lot of work to be done

to get the census done and ready 20 go for 2020, the contribution of this. help us understand the ramifications of that. how you as opposing counsel, say they were misleading about what the proposal? >> maybe they weren't misleading. maybe june 30th was the deadline. maybe it was true at the time. or maybe it wasn't. the administration said, you have to take this case and expedite it now. you have to shorten the time for the party's briefing. after june 30th, it's done and over. and chief justice roberts acknowledged that in his opinion. he said, you lost. there's no mulligans here. they said the deadlines are passed. >> mike, i know you, on this long holiday weekend, you read the transcript of that conference call. your reaction to that?

the bewilderment going against an official position of the commerce department that this was said and done. >> i always said the deliverance of our system would be people doing their job. when it's government workers carrying out the trump agenda. those workers seem to be behaving in an ethical manner. it was there that they were confused and befuddled. they didn't understand what the government was trying to do, on the part of people they were arguing for. the questions i have, are, it does seem with the travel ban, sometimes called the muslim ban, that the administration used the courts as a process. they floated out two or three. they said the quiet part out loud. in court, donald trump was

saying, ban the muslims. similar to this, why -- now the travel ban, a part of that did pass. why won't this pass if that's the parallel. >> for the government to say over and over again, that june 30th is the final date. you can't make a change to the jen s census form. and to go back on their word. i can't imagine that any court, let alone the supreme court, is going to stand for that. that's the first reason. and the second reason is, the reason why this was struck down was because the government lied about the reasons for doing what they said -- adding the citizenship question. for them to come back and say, okay, here's the real reason, would be to acknowledge the lie.

>> it boils down to, the dude's lying. we're not going to do it. what keeps me up at night, there's few specific details in the constitution. but article 1, section 2, they laid out the census. we must keep count. what keeps me up at night is there's so many families who are documented. but they're mixed status families. the census counts a household. i'm afraid that the people will not fill out the census because, we know that hundreds of millions of dollars go towards goods and services and communities, it's reapporti reapportionme reapportionment. >> what is the incentive of any family? we know that africans are 10% of undocumented but 20% of deportations. why would citizens want to fill out the census? and the ramifications years later will just be detrimental to so many communities across the nation. urban, suburban and rural. >> i'm sure you read that piece

in "the new york times," as well. how concerned are you about the disinformation campaign? the ramifications about the debate of this question. and this might not be a census of integrity. hope that doesn't happen. even if the question gets knocked off, if the litigation is successful, the administration will have succeeded stirring up fear and sowing enough concerns that people won't respond to the census. the government's own estimate, most recently, is that 9 million people won't respond to the census if the citizenship question is on there. that's more people than in the state of new jersey. we have devogotten the question knocked on there.

>> there could be a little -- you know, they keep saying -- >> good for the post-it company. >> yeah. suddenly, i care about a printing schedule. i feel i can roll that off of my laser printer fast. the whole thing has a cloud of ill legitimacy about it. the president himself, the a.g.'s office, and the census, i don't trust this. how do you get that cloud away from all of this? >> part of what you're saying here is it speaks to the importance of the printing process. not just the forms themselves, every piece of information. >> the postcards, the letters, the instructions to the census workers, to outreach partners. they have to reflect the contents of the questionnaire. that's why it's important to get this locked down a year in advan advance. making sure that the public

information is accurate. >> thank you very much. coming up here. dale ho on "up." coming up, after weeks of saying he could not apologize, joe biden had a change of heart, it seems. saying i'm sorry for working with segregationist senators. but now even the vice president says he stands by his record. >> that misstep defined 50 years of my record. fighting for civil rights and racial justice in this country. i hope not. i don't think so. ot i don't think so oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ - i like to plan my activities before i take trip, so by the time i get there i can just enjoy the ride. with tripadvisor, it's easy to discover over 100,000 bookable things to do,

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this is "up." i'm david gura. and joe biden has apologized for comments he made about his work with segregationists in sumpter, south carolina. with social issues taking center stage in 2019, the 76-year-old former vmt vice president has had to defend a number of past actions. >> was i wrong to give the imprai impression that i was praising those men that i opposed time and again? yes, i was. i regret it. and i'm sorry if any of the pain or misconception i may have caused anybody. >> she did not get a fair hearing. she did not get treated well. that's my responsibility.

that's my responsibility. my responsibility. and i'll meet it. >> the former vice president has been reluctant to apologize for his record, defending himself as a champion of civil rights and women's rights. bring everybody back in the conversation here in virginia. from his treatment of anita hill in the 1990s, to his unwelcome hugs from women, to his flip-flop on abortion funding, joseph r. biden jr., has spent the early mnonths of his presidential bid explaining and pushing back. the one thing he hasn't done is bow to critics outright. was it an apology? >> we're connoisseurs of apologies. i think he was doing all right until he got to -- if i caused anyone pain, which suggests that, if you are sensitive that you feel pain when someone makes a political misstep, that's your

problem. i also -- it's a consistent ideological history. you don't reverse yourself on wearing the wrong color tie. that was a mistake and i didn't intend it. these were intentional steps on abortion. really thoughtout. really, that were to the record that he was building. we're questioning his record, but not on a level where you can say -- you can quickly reverse yourself. and pete buttigieg showed us how to apologize in the moment in the debates. that's not what this is. this is, please, for give me, move on. >> you heard him say how he was talking about there's more fascination in the first part of his career than the most recent years of it. how do you walk away thinking about his engagement with his personal history. he seemed so disinterested and so unwilling to engage.

talk about, not just the moments, but the formative aspect of his political history. >> i have two joe bidens. the joe biden that was a public servant for many, many years, all the way up through calling barack obama the candidate that was clean, shiny and articulate. before he worked with barack obama, obama was clean, shiny and articulate. we know that joe biden has not been able to apologize to anita hill. so, much that the women of "the view" were like, use active tense. when he tried to tell senator harris, you're focusing on the past. no, education, that my father used to tell us, is one thing that a parent can give a child that no one can take away. he has a record on the wrong side of history of bussing. it's not a past conversation. considering we are having conversations about new york city being the segregated public school system in the country.

we have seg garegated education even though brown v. board was passed in 1974. all of the fundamental policies and political opinions that he helped calcify over the course of 30-something years, he's now, that was then. now, let's not move too far to the left. but i need the nomination so i can move forward and fight trump and be the tough guys in the parking lot. before you get to the general, to fight the bully, and whatever performance of masculinity you want to have, you need to fundamentally answer some specific questions that younger voters have. i think his speech and his apology went over very well in south carolina. there's older black voters who saw his dedication and loyalty to barack obama for eight years. they respect him for that. were surprised by that possibly. but that will carry him so far. there are other voters in other

areas. it needs to be more than that. >> mike, we had jonathan allen up here. i'm glad we paid for his ticket up here. he wrote a great piece on the way back to washington, d.c. he talks about biden writing, they're intertwined with half a century of social trends of progressism and backlash and his ambition to ascend to the highest offices in the land. want to get your reaction to that. >> i read it. i thought it was a decent framing. >> that was the shade passed down the acela corridor. >> this isn't apologizing for a tie. this is apologizing for an ideology. he believes in the ideology and i think a lot of america does, too. there's been a bunch of things that he's asked to apologize

for. some are bordering on the ridiculous. calling it toxic that he says to girls, don't let her dating anyone. the smelling of the women's hair. that was a huge story for two weeks. the voters didn't react to that much. then, you have complimenting east lanld, and helms, and giving a eulogy for strom thurmond. was he nice to segregationists? his point is, no matter how loathsome a person is, i try to work with them. and i think voters like that. and the bussing issue, a bad stance to have taken. and he's not apologizing for it. and that's sticking to your guns and maybe he should have said, i was wrong then in the light of day. he is also saying, tell me, senator harris, how do our stances differ today? i don't think she's been able to articulate that. there's many things he's being asked to apologize for that he doesn't feel like he should apologize for, that i think the

voters would back him up on. the crime bill. >> the bankruptcy bill. >> to me, with his 45-year record, it's a mix of -- the bankruptcy bill was a horrible vote. and i've done tons of research on the crime bill. i would have voted for it. and most americans would vote for it if crime now was where it was then. >> virginia, lastly to you. you can apologize with one clause. and we are talking about how joe biden can go on and on. i'm reading a tweet from the president. sleepy joe biden just admitted he worked with segregationists. >> he is taking advantage of this opening that was created by vice president biden's response yesterday. we know he worked with segregationists. but he's left the opening and the president can go through that door. >> i think mike is right. i go back to adam schiff's

challenge to congress, to tell us why what is in the mueller report is okay. you want to hear someone say, i agree with you but this is what you do to win an election. this is a robust conversation to be had with kamla harris about bussing. i take one side. we share one side. and the other argument is how affirmative does the government get in racial justice. what is the 14th amendment? it would have been an interesting conversation between a centrist and someone to the left of him. and instead, it becomes -- i saw the polls. and i'm kind of sorry, if that changes the polls. what are they saying now? >> i think it's a lack of authenticity. some voters are feeling. this blind ambition will be his achilles' heel. >> i would like to center the senator make his case. >> sounds like a good podcast. you get kamla on. jeffrey epstein taken into custody overnight. his arrest is among a major

investigation. the journalist behind that series, julie brown, will join us next. l join us next. ♪

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this is "up." i'm david xwgura.

jeffrey epstein was arrested overnight. he faces two counts of sex trafficking for alleged crimes committed in new york and florida, between 2002 and 2005. the 66-year-old is being held in new york, where he is expected to be arraigned tomorrow. "the daily beast" broke the news of epstein's arrest. all of this comes month after a three-part investigation by "the miami herald." julie brown was the reporter and four of jeffrey epstein's victims spoke on the record for the first time. they were able to identify 80 girls involved. there is a new light of a plea deal, signed by alexander acosta, then a federal prosecutor, now the secretary of labor. acosta shelved a 53-page federal indictment that could have put epstein behind bars for life. he served a reduced sentence. acosta defended his actions, saying this matter was appealed up to the deputy attorney

general's office. but not because we weren't doing enough, but the contention was we were too aggressive. the justice department announced it would not throw out the 2008 nonprosecution agreement, even though a federal judge ruled it was illegal. julie brown joins us from miami. let me ask you about what you expect to see in this game. you and your colleagues reporting on the address last night. new witnesses and victims spoke to authorities over the past several months. what do we know about what we might see on monday morning? >> well, he's going to appear in court on a bail hearing. that would be significant because, as we all know, he has an awful lot of resources. i think there's going to be concern that he might flee. there had been rumors about this happening and might be the reason why they picked him up suddenly the way they did. the charges, we think, involve cases post 2002. these are vic testimoniy s vims

have been abused after that date because the federal statute of sex trafficking was abolished in 2002. since that time, those cases would qualify for prosecution. and we believe there's probably one victim, if not more, in new york they're going after. and that's what gave the southern district of new york the jurisdiction to undertake this case. >> helps understand that agreement. you found victims than investigators in florida did. how encompassing is that? how is it going to affect what officials are able to do? >> well, my understanding, from talking to legal experts is that, the nonprosecution agreement would not cover any victims he might have had in new york or, by the way, in new mexico, where he owns a ranch or in the u.s. virgin islands, where he owns a home on an island there.

or in new york. and we know from court papers that he was doing this allegedly in new york, as well. recent court papers indicate there were schoolgirls going into his mansion in new york in their school uniforms. there were witnesses that saw them that was working in his home at the time. so we suspect, maybe it's possible they might have a new victim or two in new york. they might also have been able to get someone who worked for him, as a recruiter of these girls, to cooperate. >> a number of my colleagues at the table have questions for you, as well. let me ask you about what's changed since you published your three-part series, in terms of the conversations about jeffrey epstein, and the conversation about what he did. the conversation about what happened in 2007-2008. how has the firmament changed as a result of your reporting, as you see it? >> well, i started this project before the launch of the #metoo

movement, before the harvey weinstein story broke. but i think this story and my journalism benefitted from the #metoo movement because we're at a point in our culture, when we are looking at these cases or giving these case mrs. scrutiny, number one. number two, i believe this case has touched a lot more nerves than, perhaps, some of the others, is because these cases involved vulnerable girls. these were 13-year-old, 14-year-old, 15-year-old girls, who don't have the resources and therefore, that's one of the reasons that this case went away, was because they didn't have the power to fight him. >> i just heard you say, by the way, you know i'm a huge fan of yours. i can't believe how tireless you've been on this. you started this before the #metoo movement and before trump, so, acosta wasn't a household name. it's been a real contribution to

thinking about america as an oligarchy. thank you. but my question for you is about the mansion -- possible new york mansion crimes. you named there's some witnesses to girls going into the house. i don't know if you've seen this on twitter. i am obsessed with dropping the word allegations in favor of evidence. when you have eyewitness testimony at close range, from nearly 100 would-be slaves or trafficked women, we don't have accusations, lurid accusations, as "the new york times" said today. but we have evidence. can we change this? your reporting, like the reporting of jodi kantor and others, presents evidence. then, we can sometimes end up with just allegations. >> i think the -- so far, as far as i know, the evidence are witnesses and people -- and victims, possibly, who are -- are saying this happened. and we don't know for sure that

it happened. i try to err on the side of caution. you know, in this day and age, a lot of people can make allegati allegations, especially in court when they're under protection of privilege. like i said, we can leave it to the public to judge whether these witnesses are credible, based on the conversation that we put out there. >> mike has a question, as well. >> when you interview former prosecutors or experts in the field and they look at that nonprosecutorial agreement, do they say this is unfathomable? the only explanation was this guy was rich and has political connections? or do they say, this was, as sad as it is, this is not atypical? it's a hard profession to bring. how do they look at that? >> most of them recognize that this was an extremely unusual, controversial way to dispose of this case. especially after you look at all the evidence that they had. you know, i have to give the

palm beach police department a lot of credit. and they don't often get a lot of credit. they did a superb investigation into this case. and unfortunately, a lot of their evidence was shoved to the side. if you really look, as i did, at what they had, it was really a masterful investigation. >> julie, thank you for this reporting. can you give us an update of how this case is linked to the other case that seems to have fallen off of the radar in the news, with pat craft and other wealthy millionaires, that were caught up in massage parlors and indentured. >> bob kraft. >> patriots. >> alan dershowitz, just to get the name out there. >> that, too. can you give us a link between this case and the case a few weeks ago, that seems to have

disappeared from our radar, with other powerful men that seem to be in these sexual cults with young girls, young women, or nondocumented women. >> i don't think we know if or how they're connected. one thread here is that there are a lot of people, powerful people, men and women, because those massage parlors were run by women, who take advantage of poor, vulnerable women, whether they're underage, in some cases, or even women who are young and who come to this country trying to make a life for themselves, have no money and are taken advantage of. that's the common thread. really, it's up to authorities to nail these cases and to really go after them. i think they're starting to do that. but it's been spotty and in some cases, as in the kraft case, it was a little sloppy, frankly. >> quickly, running out of time.

if i could, julie, just about the rogue scholar we're talking about. virginia brings up dershowitz, kevin spacey, donald trump, as well. we have my colleague talking about the other principles that the investigation have been under because of jeffrey epstein. how have you seen that nexus of power come to bear as you've reported this in the aftermath of your reporting? >> well, i felt a lot of pressure. these are powerful people. i think they're sweating today. we don't know how much -- how deep this went. how far-reaching it went in government. there's a lot of people, i can see their names on the message pads on a regular basis, as part of the evidence. these message pads where they

would call epstein and leave messages, such as, i'm at this hotel. why do you do that, except that you're expecting him, perhaps, to send a girl to visit you at your hotel. there's probably quite a few important people, powerful people, who are sweating it out right now. we have to wait and see whether epstein will name names or what kind of information he will try to trade in order to maybe get out of this in some way. ore lower his culpability. >> and how would you characterize the relationship with president trump? >> they went to dinner parties at each other's house. trump was on his plane, probably not as much as other people because he had his own plane. but they were -- they had a lot

of social relationships with each other. and the other interesting thing is, trump had a modeling agency. and epstein also had a stake in a modeling agency, which they suspect he used to bring in underaged girls from overseas. and you know, there is a common in one of the court files, where epstein is quoted, as saying, i want to set up my modeling agency the same way trump set up his modeling agency. i don't know what that means. but it is curious that he was trying to do something similar to trump. >> thanks to you. julie brown, "miami herald" joining us this morning. thank you for the reporting. thank you very much. coming up, you may have noticed the 2020 candidates flexing their muscles on the campaign trail. why more hopefuls are speaking spanish. ♪ when you get right down to it... freedom is the ability to go where you wanna go...

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this is "up." i'm david gura. several democratic candidates are using spanish on the campaign trail. we saw this on stage at that nbc news debate. [ speaking spanish ] >> mayor buttigieg. [ speaking spanish ] >> in the united states, 40 million men and women speak spanish. but only 13% of latino voters speak the language. that asks in "the new york times," who is all of this spanish for? spanish is the most significant among the early voting states, in nevada, where 20% of

democratic caucus attendees were hispanic. joining us is lisa melendez. let me ask you for your reaction to this. we saw the side eye there when co cory booker looks over at o'rourke when he starts to speak spanish. we have not seen anything like this in a campaign. >> we have not. but for the democrats that have been using spanish on the trail, it's a gesture, right? a sign of willingness to engage, a willingness to be open. and what we've seen in the polling is, it may not be very important to latino voters that their candidates can speak spanish. there's some that appreciate the effort and the gesture. but what is important is that they have a candidate who values diversity and bringing people together. and so, to me, the spanish becomes a proxy of that litmus test. when it's a problem and pandering, when you have

anti-immigrant or anti-latino policies and you're trying to mask that by speaking spanish on the trail. >> hispanderring. when does that begin to happen? >> i don't know if we're there yet. democrats have a conundrum to figure out. if you look at the recent polling, you have about 62% of latino voters saying they will likely vote for the democratic candidate, whomever that is. you have 21% saying they will vote for trump. that leaves about about 17% of latino voters who don't know whether they will vote for the democratic candidate or if they will vote for trump. that's a number that democrats will have to zoom in and focus in on and figure out what's going on there. remember, donald trump does not need to win latino voters. he needs to cut into democrats' margin of victory. whether that means convincing

some latinos to vote for him or some of the latino voters to stay home. >> i want to get that sense of that moment in the first night of the debate. we heard spanish being spoken. we were talking about "the miami herald," they did a wonderful -- they graded the candidates on their use of the spanish in the debate. that's a side, what did you make at that moment? what does it say about this period in american history? >> it's a proxy to say i'm a candidate that's inclusive. i think we can say we have a large muslim population in this country. we need to do more. many candidates are stuck on the coal miner voter, who voted for obama, obama, trump. they're not going to be moved by that. there's younger voters who see this as inclusive. we have fundamental issues in

this nation we never resolved. we don't have a national language. and the democratic party is at some odds because we know there's lots of white, democratic parents, who have their kids in bilingual educati education. but they don't support esl. a lot are like julian castro. >> he's not a fluent speaker. >> many porn parents of color,o make sure their children spoke english to get the education they need and deserve because they're nonwhite students in a white educational women. many can understand why julian castro and his brother do not speak fluent spanish. we see this time and time again. people come from native spanish-speaking homes or whatever dialect may be, and the parents purposely chose not to teach them their native tongue. that's something the democrats have attention with. when i saw them speaking spanish, it made me think of

when stacey abrams responded to trump's state of the union. and the first thing she said was, she wanted to wish a happy chinese new year to all america, essentially. we have to understand, the nation is not proxy for whiteness. it used to be. but it's not anymore. and we need to start to wrap our minds around that. and that's the attention of the nation. and that's the attention of the democratic party. >> mike, quickly to you. when you do the diagram of spanish speakers and younger candidates, there's overlap. pete buttigieg, who can speak many languages in addition to spanish. this is appealing to younger people. [ speaking spanish ] >> there you go. >> most of the candidates speaking spanish were trailing in the polls. buttigieg was spoken to. he was answering in spanish. i don't know if it's a spanish word for it. maybe people on twitter will tell me.

thirsty and desperate. desperate is too far. it's a fine enough gesture. it's not in the natural course of things how one would communicate. and it reminds me of the '90s trope of keeping your finger in the frame. and something that doesn't seem authentic and to be naturally flowing from the position of a person, i think there's plenty of ways to communicate that, i stand with immigrants or the immigrant community. many consider themselves white. >> we're going to leave it there. lisa melendez. her podcast is latina-to-latina. justin lamarche may have declared his independence from his party on july 4th. but he has not ruled out a presidential run. here he is with jake tapper a few moments ago on "state of the union." >> is it possible you would run for president? >> i wouldn't rule anything out. i believe i have to use my skills, my public influence, where it serves the country best. and i believe i have to defend

the constitution, in whichever works best. if that means doing something else, i do that. i feel confident about running in my district. i feel a close tie to my community. i feel -- i care a lot about my community. i want to represent them in congress. >> the dude loves the constitution. that's the long and short of it here. we talked about it -- we talked about the twitter thread he had about the mueller report. let's just get your sense of what this signified, when he wrote that op-ed for "the washington post," there were other republicans that left the party. he did it. what does that say about him and about the party itself? >> first of all, in california, they had an earthquake. the whole day wasn't thinking about trump's thing. love him for stepping on tank day in washington and the morning news cycle was given over to his defection from the party. 2017, i think a lot of people on the left held out hope, when it came to the muslim band, we

would see the libertarian support. some of the family values, would say "the access hollywood" tape was a bridge too far. and we kept waiting for them to wake up. rand paul standing by the president on things, when he's moved so far access hollywood tape was a bridge too far. we have the aclu voice. we're in 17 constitutional crises by my count. so this is a sign of life on the right. you know, i would love see elizabeth warren on the left, justin amash on the far right and everyone else falls off the ledge. the family values of people aren't coming back. independents and democrats,

that's it. who follows him? does anyone follow him and does he care if anyone follows him? >> that's a great point because during mccarthyism and the red scare, she was the core of the republican party, others followed her. to me justin amash is a guy who's a republican only because if you're a truly libertarian who are you going to follow, and that's it but i do not think he's a pied piper. >> yeah, i mean i wish we had more of that in congress in our

r representation. that means you are saying you support the president, the muslim ban, the cages at the border, the tax cuts that are going to rip this country apart. you are in this party and you have to own it, and explain to your grapd children if we have a country, a continent after all these earthquakes and hurricanes and everything else, you're going to have the explain to them where were you when puerto rico was neglected, so i have given up on republican leadership right now because they are saying they believe all these things that are happening to innocent people in this nation. now, my students are a totally different story. but i want them to sort of see if you believe that that's your

prerogative. you're in america, you can do that. but like we are at a moment, a constitutional crisis whatever you want to say, but you always play that game, who would you be during world war ii, during the times of u.s. slavery. who are you? are you supporting what's going on in this nation and this administration. >> let's go deeply about what we've seen over the course of this. you look at justin amash, he's constantly looking back at washington. what's your sense of how we as a country regard our american history at the end of this week? >> it's so funny because both you and justin amash love the constitution and could probably interpret it oh, 180 degrees but maybe 165. but that's okay. it's a living document. i think everything is used just

for a justification, just for an ad hoc prompter justification. that's how i i think and if we have leaders more good than bad they'll lead us to a correct place citing more justifications. if we have more leaders bad than good they'll misuse for their actions. >> justin amash is such an outlier in this because he's a straight up idelog, and what does he tell his grandchildren? like, i made sure that the government wouldn't interfere in our ways and i made the world safe for guns, and, you know, those assault rifles and bump stock, that was me. he's not talking -- >> we give out welfare to middle america constantly in hundreds of millions of dollars. we just don't call it welfare.

so it's the framing of it all to me that's fascinating. >> we talked about opportunists, biden and then justin amash saying like i went to the university of michigan law school, this is where i studied, and when things step out of bounds i change parties and if i lose, i lose. i would love for anyone in the family values people to recognize -- but isn't that the premise of the problem, though? >> mike, last to you. what did you observe when justin amash went to that town hall right after he sent out that twitter thread. hundreds of people there in or something like that, and he loves the spirit of debate. we talked about being a pied piper for other members of congress. how about just other americans who look at all these things and want to find some way?

>> if nothing else and maybe for amash's history if nothing else that gave us just about the best quote of the last few months, which was just a regular woman, went to the town hall and said, i don't know, i watch a lot of fox news i think the mueller report did exonerate him. >> thank you for joining me for the hour. coming up next on "am joy," more on the arrest of billionaire financeier justin epstein. financeier justin epstein. ♪ hoo

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that does it for me this weekend. thank you very much. "am joy" with joy reid starts right now. in less than two years my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. america's -- so true. didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy." well, flashback to september when donald trump stood before the u.n. general assembly and was literally laughed at by world leaders. it was one of the most embarrassing and damning moments in american history, that an american president would be reduced to the butt of a joke rather than being viewed as the most powerful person in the world. but in true trump fashion the