unified army. our army manned the airport, it ran the ramparts. it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do. i stood in the rain, the teleprompter -- >> what happened with the airport? >> the teleprompter went out. it went kaput. you know, i don't use teleprompters from the -- like the president. if you run for president, you shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters. shouldn't be allowed. because you don't know the guy is smart. i guess the rain knocked out the teleprompter. >> i guess. >> it was the teleprompter's fault. always the prompter's fault. president trump blamed the lack of a teleprompter for saying that george washington's army took over the airports in 1775. that would be approximately 128 years before the very first

flight. >> well, there is of course parallel even in ancient history, mika. of course, cesar would have never crossed the rubicon, but by that point in his reign he had control of the steam ships and made all of the difference. >> sure did. >> his rise in ancient rome. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july the 8th. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department elise jordan and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. great to have you all. there's a lot already happening on this monday morning. joe biden apologizes for how he described his past work with segregationist senators. but reminds everyone of his record serving with president obama. billionaire convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein will

appear in manhattan federal court today, arrested over the weekend in connection with what law enforcement officials say are federal sex trafficking allegations. iran is about to breach another limit, set by the 2015 nuclear deal. newly leaked memos reveal the british ambassador sees president trump as inept, insecure and incompetent. a major shakeup by the justice department and its ongoing legal battle to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. >> and ignore the united states supreme court by doing that it. >> and that. and then this. a record fourth world cup title for the u.s. women's national team. take a listen. wow.

they'll be honored with a ticker tape parade in new york city later this week. while still looking for the equalizer against the men's game when it comes to pay and i am rooting for them, joe. >> well, i'll tell you what, mika, even after their victory, chants about equal pay rose in the stadium and -- in paris. very exciting time for the united states. very exciting also because of what they were fighting for in their entire quest. but jonathan lemire, mike barnicle, of course the most exciting event yesterday, our boston red sox. >> yeah. >> i can't say it with a straight face. our boston red sox tried to blow the third -- the third consecutive game. they try -- they tried to blow the third consecutive lead but they win and we are on the razor's edge as we go into the all-star break. only just a game or two or nine

behind the new york yankees. >> yeah. epic sweep of the detroit tigers. jonathan, i don't know. >> yeah. i don't know that that will be the sporting event from the weekend that we remember. i was going to say something about how, you know, my two boys, ages 7 and 4, were really inspired by the women's world cup team, rooting for them like they would any other team. >> yes. >> then my oldest also asked about the red sox yesterday. i said oh they're winning, well, dad, have the relief pitchers come in yet? that may change when they do. from the mouth of babes they understand the perilous situation that we are in. >> so are you telling me they have taken down their posters of it already? >> yeah. for the boys' bedroom, hembree posters are down. a bunch of kids in single a and hopefully they'll have --

>> mika, i'm sorry. >> it's fine. >> why don't we start with more news. >> well -- >> you may not want to talk about. >> you know what? you needed a good laugh because we begin with the latest snapshot of president trump's approval and potential 2020 match-ups. the abc news/"washington post" poll had his rating at 47%, up five points from april and 50% disapprove, down four points. judging by the issues the president is strongest on the economy, with 51% approving of his performance. 42% approve of his job on taxes. and he gets 40% approval on foreign policy as well as on immigration. on health care, 38% approve. among registered voters the poll finds president trump is currently down ten points to former vice president joe biden in a hypothetical 2020 match-up. but effectively tied with

senators kamala harris, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and dead even with mayor pete buttigieg. >> so mike, very interesting. let's start -- we'll get to the democratic match-ups in a second but let's start with of course the president at 47% among registered voters and let's talk about why that is. but i think we do have to start though with an asterisk around that because the president was in a meltdown mode last night. something is going on that has him deeply agitated. normally he'd be bragging about the poll numbers but instead he was melting down last night. i don't know if it was that jeffrey epstein case that his own justice department has put him into the legal crosshairs or if it was something else, but any insight into -- first of all, any insight into last night's twitter rant when he got the best polling news of his

presidency? >> well, isn't it part and parcel of his behavior as president, joe? i mean, any other president feasting on these economic numbers on a daily basis, on a weekly basis would focus on the economics of his presidency. on the fact that the economy is booming. wouldn't talk about anything else, but this particular president seems to veer left, right, all sorts of different directions when things bother him internally as you say. i don't know what it was that was bothering him. it was a recent hire by fox news that was one tweet. things like that but he's distracted from the main goal i would think of his handlers to focus on the economy and try to convince people that this is why he would deserve a second term. i think the biggest thing in that poll though, joe, if you look at the internals is the number of women who will not support donald trump under any set of circumstances. and if you look at that number and it hasn't moved in a long while and it's a fairly substantial number it's going to

be very, very difficult for him to win re-election. >> but elise, he's sitting at 47% of registered voters. >> you'd think he'd be happy. >> the chances are good those numbers will go even higher when you go from registered voters to likely voters, which is too early to figure out who those likely voters are going to be. but historically he does better among likely voters so the question is for democrats as they're trying to figure out exactly why right know donald trump continues to rise in the polls, the question is whether it was their own performance in the last democratic debate that finally sharpened the focus of a lot of americans who said, wait a second. i really like the generic democrat against president trump but i don't care too much for the people i saw in miami last week. >> i wonder how closely voters really -- how much attention was paid to the first debate.

it really is so early and to state the obvious i think trump is benefitting from an economy that isn't of his own making but continues to reap the rewards of that and as long as that strength is still there overall, people -- it will be very hard to boot an incumbent out of office. i was just more disturbed this past weekend over the course of, you know, that bizarre speech about, you know, raising airports during the revolutionary war and then the bizarre rant this weekend just the fundamental instability of donald trump right now and just behavior that if you saw in any major ceo or a family member you would be gravely concerned. and, you know, i wonder, rev, you know him for so many years, is this more extreme or par for the course? >> no, i think it is more extreme. he has always been different, let's put it that way.

and always been a megalomaniac but i don't recall him saying airports in the 18th century and denying climate change. i think we are seeing him either the pressure of being president has made him worse or there are other factors. but he's clearly gone beyond even the bizarre behavior we are used to in new york. >> as for the race for the democratic nomination, the abc news/"washington post" poll has former vice president joe biden leading the field at 30% with senator bernie sanders at 19%. senator kamala harris at 13%. senator elizabeth warren at 12% and mayor pete buttigieg is in a distant fifth place with 4%. in the real clear politics average, a recent surge for senator harris since the june 27th debate has moved her past sanders and warren into second place. meanwhile, 45% of democrats

think biden is best positioned to defeat president trump next year. the abc/"washington post" poll finds 18% view sanders as the best bet to win and 9% pick harris and 7% pick elizabeth warren. >> so reverend al, just curious what you think of those numbers. and obviously, joe biden's numbers fluctuate. i know that michelle obama over the weekend was asked to get involved in the debate between joe biden and kamala harris and she said not going to take that bait. also, brought up the fact that it was just so early. that things were going to change so much and she of course should know because this time 12 years ago, mika was flying to iowa, interviewed michelle there who was at that time along with her husband very frustrated with

black voters who were still supporting hillary clinton over barack obama by pretty good numbers. that of course changed dramatically and this race could change dramatically too. what are you hearing on the ground? what are you hearing in the churches? what are you hearing in places like south carolina? >> well, i spent the last four days at the essence festival where it's the largest gathering of black women where michelle obama spoke. i have been there every year for 25 years and they're coming together -- their coming together was different this year. you could hear the buzz from all over the country and people are saying it is early. when ms. obama referred to the statement you made with -- at the essence festival, when she referred to at this point in her and barack obama's race, they were totally lower on the polls

and there was still a lot of blacks saying we don't know him. we can hardly say his name, so you can't say where it is going. you can make a big mistake in not being -- and not be forgiven, but it's more difficult to make a good mark that will be remembered. so i think we are at the point where people are saying, don't make any big mistakes but you have to give it all for them to remember your policy proposals the very next day. >> and mika, it's so important for people that look at the candidates, look at their race, and try to match that up with the voters. it's so important for them to realize that that's just not how voters vote. on a much different scale, i always said it was when i ran, i was 29 years old. the younger voters were the most skeptical of me. and it was older voters that voted for me.

in 2007, 2008, which with a heck a lot more on the line, barack obama -- it's very easy to say that barack obama of course he won the black vote. no, he had to fight. you remember your interview, the frustration with michelle obama. >> yeah. >> remember the team's frustration that barack obama had to convince black voters that voting for him was in their personal interest. because people vote for their very specific personal best interests. they don't vote for an idea. they don't vote for a symbol. they vote to make their household better. and so i think what we're seeing right now in these folks it's awfully early. but what we're seeing in the polls are a lot of people, if you put up the numbers again about, you know, the head to heads, right now it's joe biden who's the only one that's clearly ahead because a lot of

democrats still think despite his poor debate performance believe that joe biden has the best chance to beat donald trump. >> and counter to the point that it's early, i mean, the ratings for the democratic debate were pretty high. people are watching. i think this is a presidency that has people on the edge of their seat. that's a little bit donald trump driven, that's the way he rolls and perhaps some are very worried about the direction that this country is heading in. and i think they are tuned in. so i don't know. i guess it's early, but i still think it matters. by the way, after facing weeks of criticism and questions over his record on race and civil rights, former vice president joe biden this weekend expressed regret over his recent comments about his past work with segregationists. speaking at a campaign event in front of a mostly african american audience in south carolina on saturday, biden also gave his most forceful defense

of as the record yesterday -- of his record yet and leaned on his time as serving as obama's second in command. >> as if the opponents believed i want to served from 1972 to 1978 and took a hiatus. they don't want to talk about much of my time as vice president of the united states. i was vetted by he and ten serious lawyers he appointed to go back and to look at every single thing in my background. from finances to anything i had done. everything. and he selected me. i'll take his judgment about my record, my character, my ability to handle the job over anyone else's. would have been nice if the day lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act, they and everything they stood for had been removed from the senate. and from the political landscape of america.

but that's not the real world. folks, now was i wrong a few weeks ago to somehow give the impression to people that i was praising those men who i successfully opposed time and again? yes, i was. i regret it. i'm sorry for any of the pain or misperception that may have caused anybody. >> so al, reverend al, pretty strong line there about barack obama. that barack obama vetted all the candidates and of all the candidates looking at all of their backgrounds, he chose joe biden and joe says he'll take barack obama's opinion of him on civil rights over anyone else's. what do you think -- is that a strong line for the campaign and more importantly did joe biden

take care of some important business in that speech this weekend or does the controversy continue? >> i think it is a very strong line because clearly everyone knows that president trump was deliberate and would have vetted anyone. and i think it is a strong line. i think that his apology over the weekend one has to wonder why he didn't do it two weeks ago when many of us were raising it. i personally on "politicsnation" tried to get him to do it because i had worked with him during the obama administration on everything from the trayvon martin case to other situations that we as civil rights leaders would meet with the president on. so it hurt us because the words was being said by someone that we felt was more sensitive, but i think that it will move on from here. but it was a two-week story that he made. he gave the opening to senator

harris. he created the story. had he said two weeks ago what he said saturday, it would have been forgotten the next day. and said joe just messed up in language which many of us do. i think though that he can move on and i think the fact that he was vetted and did work closely with president obama helps him. that does not mean that obama is going to weigh in and endorse him by any stretch but i think it's certainly part of a resume that his competitors in the field cannot match. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," he received one of the most lenient sentences for a serial sex offender in u.s. history. a lot of people were surprised by that. now, multimillionaire jeffrey epstein has reportedly been arrested outside of new york. we'll talk to "the miami herald" reporter who has been covering this story from the very beginning. >> that reporting, mika, no doubt, that reporting made a huge difference in putting this story front and center and i believe forced the feds to

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welcome back. convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein was arrested on saturday in connection with what lawmaker officials said is sex trafficking allegations. according to three law enforcement officials the arrest which is part of a joint nypd and fbi investigation spans from the years 2002 to 2005. officials said the 66-year-old epstein had flown from paris to new york when he was arrested in teaterboro, new jersey. a source familiar with the investigation says the epstein case was led by the south district of new york's public

corruption unit, working with the sex crimes division. the nypd, the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york and the fbi declined to comment. epstein is expected to appear before a federal magistrate judge in new york today to face charges that includes sex trafficking of minors for which there's no federal statute of limitations. separately, a federal judge ruled in february that prosecutors led now by secretary of labor alex acosta violated the rights of epstein's alleged victims after two of them sued the government for not telling them about a nonprosecution deal until it had been finalized. in 2008, epstein dodged major jail time after pleading guilty to state charges of solis dating and procuring a person under 18 for prostitution. he served a 13-month jail

sentence, but listen to this. he was allowed to spend much of it at his office through a work release program. under the federal charges, epstein could have faced life in prison. the deal ended the fbi's investigation into numerous accusations against epstein and granted immunity from the more serious federal charges. but according to "the new york times" february's ruling opened the possibility of nullifying the agreement and allowing epstein to be prosecuted on the original federal charges. at the same time, the justice department opened its own investigation into the plea deal and whether its attorneys committed professional misconduct in resolving the case of 2008. yes, they did. >> so, jonathan lemire, tell me exactly what happened and what do you know about the southern

district of new york moving on the former friend of president trump's and moving forward and is obviously going to cause discomfort not only to donald trump, but also possibly to bill clinton and others who have been jeffrey epstein's friend for some time. donald trump calling epstein in a past interview a terrific guy who liked young girls. any reporting on that? how it moved forward? was donald trump aware that it was moving forward and did he give the go ahead? >> well, our next guest is the definitive expert on the issue. but president trump he spent the weekend at the golf club in new jersey and he was asked about it as he was boarding air force one and asked if he knew about the arrest and he said he didn't. which sounds dubious and we know that he was briefed that it was happening. you're right, he had ties.

long standing ties to epstein. he is quoted i believe in 2002 "new york" magazine profile about epstein saying he was a great guy. he went on to say perhaps in a jocular way that epstein enjoyed young women which carries a very different meaning now perhaps. we also know that epstein knew president clinton and that clinton traveled on epstein's plane more than a dozen times over the years. there is extensive concern around the white house about where this can go and president trump is saying he doesn't know about this. it's unclear how personally he was involved with the decision to make this arrest yesterday. or over the weekend in new jersey. but it's something that people are watching nervously here. this has been a shadow that's followed donald trump and bill clinton. sort of hovered around the 2016 campaign. reporters were digging around the edges of that as that was going on and i think there's concern about what could happen next. >> well, joining us now is the

investigative reporter who has been covering the epstein case for "the miami herald," julie brown. great to have you back on the show. >> thank you. >> give us a sense of what the charges are against him now. now that the -- i guess the runway has been cleared to charge him again. and is -- what more is expected or are you looking at given the fact that you have great knowledge of all the different tentacles surrounding this case. >> well, i think what we want to look at is what kind of evidence that they have, especially what kind of new evidence that they have. it's probably likely that they have some kind of new evidence out of new york because the charges that have -- out of florida that the justice department has already ruled that they're not going to reprosecute him on those charges so they have probably new information. among the new evidence could be witnesses or people that worked with him who now want to talk to authorities. you know, a lot of time has gone by. some of the people might be

thinking differently about their role in this operation that he was running. so we'll have to wait and see what kind of witnesses or possibly employees that worked for him might be providing to authorities. >> julie, one of the reasons that jeffrey epstein is going to be in federal court here in lower manhattan today is the work that you and "the miami herald" did over a long period of time and the initial charges lodged against him in florida. you were speaking just now of witnesses. there are more than 80 i think -- 8-0 -- 80 young women who you spoke to in your initial reporting. it's a shocking number. talk about the degree of difficulty in getting these young women -- many of them quite young, to participate in unveiling, revealing the depth of this depravity. >> well, that was probably the hardest part. i mean, these young women -- these women now had felt betrayed. not only by, you know,

traumatized by epstein, by his lawyers, by the private investigators that stalked them. but there were prosecutors that they believed would put him behind bars really give him the sentence that he deserved and they feel that in some -- to some degree they betrayed them. so they certainly were not ready to start talking to me or anybody and keep in mind since this was so long ago, a lot of them have moved on with their lives. they have married, they have children. some of them never told their families that this ever happened so that was a big challenge. i think that in time also though because some of them have children, especially if they had girls, they felt -- i know virginia, for example, virginia roberts felt a duty at some point to speak out because she didn't want this to happen to other girls. >> so julie, let me ask you about the big names that you

said might be revealed during the investigation. obviously, you wrote a story talking about alan dershowitz and his battle with david boyce. he continues to be accused and it's very interesting, he -- he said, hey, go ahead file a defamation suit against me for calling you a liar and then had it, now he's trying to get that dropped. but it's very interesting, you not only have alan dershowitz in the middle of this, bill clinton's name keeps coming up because of the number of times that he flew with epstein. donald trump involved in this. are they -- are there any other names, political or otherwise, that you know of that we'll be hearing about? >> there probably will be. you know, he had -- he contributed to a number of political campaigns, some of those people returned the money. there were a lot of also harvard

professors, scientists, academics that were in his circle. but because they flew on his plane quite frankly or moved in his social circles doesn't necessarily mean that they were involved in anything illegal. so i think that we have to wait and see how deep this goes as far as this sex trafficking operation goes. but there are certainly many people right now who are probably a little nervous that he's been arrested. >> so let me ask you, those flight manifests, do they not only reveal the passengers but do they reveal any of those high profile named people actually going to his island? >> yes. of course. i mean, we know that bill clinton was going to -- you know, on his plane. we know that there were -- >> bill clinton was going to his plane to the island? >> you know, i -- yes. we know he was on the island if he wasn't on the island directly

from his -- from epstein's plane, there were other ways to get to the island. you know, there's ferries to the island, other ways to go there. we know that some of these people got there by other means, not just by mr. epstein's plane. >> okay. >> elise? >> it's incredible, so many victims and it took so long for this man to be held to justice. i just -- i really am so impressed by the tenacity -- your tenacity pursuing justice for the victims. i'm also disgusted that a sitting member of the trump cabinet was complicit in this. what should happen with secretary acosta? should congress hold him to account for his role, striking this incredible sweetheart deal that kept a predator out of prison and instead allowed him to leave for 12 hours of the day over a year-long period, instead of actually facing repercussions? >> well, congress as you know

has asked the justice department to look at this case, but from what i understand the office of professional responsibility that is overseeing this has no jurisdiction over acosta because he no longer works for the justice department. so it remains to be seen whether they're going to do anything about his role in this. but what i will say is in all of the explanations that i have heard from mr. acosta and from some of his assistant prosecutors who handled this they have never explained why they kept this deal secret. if it was such a good deal like they say, this was fair, this was, you know, the best we could do, given that these were young girls, they didn't want to be intimidated any longer. they were afraid to talk. if it was such a good deal, then why did they seal it? why did they fight these victims for almost a year to make sure that nobody found out about it if it was such a good deal. >> yeah. those are the key questions.

i mean, it looks like a massive cover-up, obviously. and those are the questions we hope get answered as well. i wonder what else, julie, happens on that island. like what other activities are there? these guys who were going there, i mean, you can't implicate them because they were on a plane. but gosh, it sure doesn't look good. >> no. you know, virginia roberts, one of the victims who has been the most vocal, she has described really that there were -- there was a lot of sexual activities. there was really horrific things that happened on that island, according to her. and she's been quite frankly -- that's another issue with these victims. she has been really beat up. mr. dershowitz among those who beats her up on a regular basis. so when you're beat up like that, you stop -- i mean, she hasn't named any names because she's afraid. so we'll have to wait and see. >> wow.

>> what happens. >> julie brown, thank you very much. we really appreciate your reporting. we'll have much more on this story in our next hour. and please come back any time. coming up this hour, president trump is warning that iran better be careful as tehran vows to boost the uranium enrichment in defiance of the 2015 nuclear accord. we'll talk to the member of the foreign relations committee chris coons about that and richard haass will join the conversation. "morning joe" is back in a moment. tion "morning joe" is back in a moment most people think a button is just a button. ♪ that a speaker is just a speaker. ♪ or - that the journey can't be the destination.

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can't imagine doing it any other way. this is caitlin dickerson from the new york times. this isn't the only case. very little documentation. lo que yo quiero estar con mi hijo. i know that's not true. and the shelters really don't know what to do with them. i just got another person at d.h.s. to confirm this. i have this number. we're going to publish the story.

iran better be careful. they enrich for one reason, and i won't tell you what that reason is, it's no good. they better be careful. iran is doing a lot of bad things. and remember this. the obama agreement which was the most foolish agreement that you'll ever find, it expires in a short period of time. whether you have this conversation now or in a number of years from now, a few number of years, very important conversation except the way they want it, they would have automatic rights to have nuclear

weapons. iran will never have a nuclear weapon. >> welcome back. iran says that it is set to breach the uranium enrichment purity limits set in the 2015 nuclear deal. it comes 14 months after president trump unilaterally withdrew the united states from the landmark accord and reimposed and added new hard hitting sanctions. last week, iran breached other limits of the deal exceeding the total amount of low enriched uranium it could stockpile. okay, good times. joining us now a member of the senate foreign relations and judiciary committees, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. also with us, the president of the council on form relations and the author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haass. senator coons, where do we stand with iran, this 2015 deal, the limits are being surpassed clearly.

it don't seem like trump liked that deal either way. have we overplayed our hand? >> well, mika, we are indeed in a world in disarray as richard's book suggests and this is why i'm supporting joe biden for president in 2020. president trump tore up the deal soon after becoming president and he promised a better, stronger deal. i'll remind you that only by working closely with our allies over many years was the obama/biden administration able to get a deal that put iran's nuclear program in a box and got in place comprehensive inspections. i think our best path forward is to get back into negotiations with iran and to put in place a broader, tougher, stronger deal. but so far i don't see any movement by the trump administration to do that. and i'm concerned that without a clear strategy they're steadily sliding towards a military confrontation with iran. >> well, richard haass, we have seen over the past month now donald trump giving de facto

approval to the north koreans to move forward with their nuclear program and now of course the decisions that he's made over the past two years regarding iran. now it's put iran in the position where they're breaking out of their nuclear -- anything that bound them before by the nuclear deal that the united states and europe signed. >> this is surprising only in the sense, joe, that it's not surprising. like didn't anybody in the administration think just for a second that if they get out of this deal it would open up options for -- this wasn't a perfect deal. the sunset provisions kicked in too soon and all that. but the administration had the opportunity from the get-go to try to negotiate a better deal with longer provisions, with constraints, to capture ballistic missiles and instead they get out.

politico yesterday ran a story that had senior officials saying we want iran to stick to the deal. so you have this situation, the iranians are slicing the salami every day. based on your talks around the world, do you think if we could get european not to mention chinese or russian backing for a new and improved deal or too late for that? >> one of the challenges, richard, this administration has put more and more distance between us and our vital european allies but i think frankly it's in all of our interests to get back to the table and to get iran's nuclear program in to a tougher, stronger, longer lasting box as well as their ballistic missile program. because of tough sanctions that are having a bite on iran's very dangerous regime i think there's a chance that iran would welcome going back to the table rather than taking us on in a military

confrontation. but the time for doing that successfully is running out. >> it seems to some that the iranians are basically ratcheting up the deal every day. we'll do this today, we'll do this tomorrow. you know, just to put the europeans in a position where they say, oh, okay, we'll help you out. but there are others -- many people who think that's never going to happen. what happens then? >> i think at that point we face a difficult choice. and a choice that we ought to be confronting in concert with our allies. because they're also going to -- >> are the europeans still our allies? >> they are, but i think one of the most striking moments for me over the past years was hearing chancellor angela merkel saying that the united states is no longer a reliable ally and that was a striking moment and frankly the abrupt and justified departure from the administration of secretary of defense, jim mattis, it should have been a wake-up call to

everybody who is paying attention to the importance of our allies. >> absolutely. >> because he left the administration frankly because of the way in which president trump abruptly announced a dramatic change in policy on syria without consulting the allies who were prosecuting that war alongside us. >> we had a lot of warning signs that there are problems. newly leaked memos reveal that the british ambassador to the united states doesn't think too highly of president trump. nbc news has confirmed the authenticity of diplomatic cables which show that sir kim darroch views trump as inept, insecure and incompetent. that's his quote. the memos are critical of the president's economic policies saying they could wreck the world trade system and described conflicts within the white house as quote, knife fights. in addition, the ambassador states that the quote, worst cannot be ruled out, regarding allegations of trump's collusion with russia.

in one instance, ambassador darroch even wrote quote we don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal, less dysfunctional, less unpredictable, less faction ridden, less diplomatically clumsy and incent. president trump responded yesterday. >> responded yesterday. >> >> no, i haven't seen it. but, you know, we have had our ins and outs with a couple of countries and i would say that the uk and the ambassador has not served the uk well. i can tell you that. we're not -- we're not big fans of that man. and he has not served the uk well. so i can understand it and i can can say things about him but i won't bother. >> yeah, you know, richard, we have been asking for some time how countries are responding to

donald trump. how they're planning to deal with him over the next year. possibly the next five years. we certainly get the answer in those cables. the view point. but then again, richard, that's what mika and i have been hearing, i'm sure it's what you've been hearing from every one of our western allies. of course, off the record, not as directly in leaked cables like this. >> as we used to call this, bark off the tree. he sent it -- you know, as he sees it. part of the problem if you're an ambassador traditionally you spend a lot of your time dealing with the state department. that's where your opposite numbers are and in this administration that's time wasted. i think that's a big part of it. also in the cable, he said a lot of things about the lack of opportunity that would be there for the british if they were to go through with brexit. this is a really gutsy cable. first in blasting the administration. then two, basically saying you're living in a pipe dream if you think you're going to have this great special relationship

as soon as we leave europe. so this i expect not well received back at home for the pro brexit crowd. and the ambassador is due to come out in january. if he makes it that long, it would -- it would be surprising particularly if boris johnson wins the conservative race in two weeks. as expected becomes the next prime minister. but it just shows you -- i think senator coons had it right, there's nothing that's traditional here and our alliances across the board are really being hammered. >> well, they are and senator coons i would love for you to talk more about that, because, you know, this is not the first time we have seen public officials from abroad criticizing -- we have seen more and more of this. brazenness. even the french releasing i

believe video of ivanka trump looking quite foolish in a conversation with world leaders. i mean, the disdain for this family-run presidency definitely is apparent from our foreign leaders and it's beginning to simmer and come out a little bit. what do you think about where the allies stand on us, the u.s.? >> well, mika, i'm very concerned about the damage that's being done to the alliances that have kept us prosperous and secure for seven decades. in visits i have made overseas on different delegations, when i have had the opportunity to meet with foreign leaders, with foreign ministers, they always raise concerns about how our unconventional president is straining our alliances. it's not inappropriate for him to be -- for president trump to raise issues like contributions to nato or the cost of our troop deployments overseas. but it is profoundly alarming when he does things like his abrupt announcement of an intention to withdrew our troops

from syria when we're in the middle of combat operations with isis, with our long term and trusted allies like the united kingdom and france and he's said things not only unconventional for a president but destabilizing. that's one of the core reasons that i'm supporting joe biden. i think he would do more to restore the alliances than any other candidate in the field. >> you have a recent piece in the atlantic, the democrats need to talk about their faith in which you argue that america is still an overwhelmingly religious country. candidates shouldn't be afraid to reflect that and you write in part this. choosing not to talk much or even at all about faith and religion has become common in today's democratic party. that choice i believe is the wrong one for two important reasons. first, it hides away the deep passionate and formative faith backgrounds of so many democrats who are seeking or serving in

office. second, choosing not to talk about our faith as democrats ignores the clear fact that america is still an overwhelmingly religious country. and that the democratic party, too remains a coalition largely made up of people of faith including tens of millions who identify as deeply religious. democrats should remember that while we're a party committed to progressive values, we are also a party that's inspired and driven by many people of faith seeking to lead and inspire and heal a country that remains deeply religious. we are at our best when we remember that those aren't facts to be reconciled but rather truths that mutually reinforce who we are. >> and reverend al, all the people -- >> amen. and i'll say amen twice for senator coons saying that because i believe part of what

has empowered, senator, the christian right is the silence of the christian left or the christian moderates in the middle that are driven. a lot of the activism and things that we have seen were driven by our faith and driven by the value that we had out of the church and we almost started apologizing for it when we should have said, no, this is the foundation of why we stand for certain things. >> absolutely. look, we have a separation of church and state in this country. it's important that those of us who are elected behave and speak and act in ways that welcome those of different faiths or of no faith. but we shouldn't be hiding the fact that most progressive democrats i know got in to public life and public service moved by the civil rights movement or the labor rights movement. concerned about creation, you know, some of us who are active in fighting climate change because we believe this is a created world and many of us i think it would be surprising to you on the panel how many senators -- democratic senators

who are running for president who are progressives are progressive people of faith. and their values are rooted in the message of the gospel. >> so you know and i know one of the candidates running for president who carries rosary beads with him each and every day. why is it so many democrats, particularly democrats, have been so reluctant to talk about their faith? >> i think part of it, mike, is a response to the ways in which the far right weaponized faith in the '80s and about 90s and we don't want to be seen as bible thumpers. we have withdrawn from talking openly about our faith and recoiling from those who seem so absolutely certain that they know that scripture demands this particular pathway in politics or policy. and part of the point of my piece was to say that i encourage folks like joe biden who you just referenced who i know has gotten through incredibly hard times because of a deep personal faith. elizabeth warren was a sunday schoolteacher. >> yeah. >> there are folks like senator

booker and mayor pete buttigieg who have spoken about their faith as they have campaigned. not in a -- not a way to say, my faith proscribes a specific policy outcome, but in a way to help the american people see their heart and understand why they can and should trust us to help lead again. >> all right, senator chris coons, great piece, thank you very, very much for being on the show this morning. coming up, there's been a slew of reports about troubling conditions at migrant detention centers. but acting homeland security secretary kevin mcaleenan is defending the quality of care given to children at these facilities. plus, joe biden gives his most direct response yet to questions about his decades long public record. we'll go live to south carolina where the former vice president spent the weekend campaigning. also ahead, two dozen democrats have thrown their hat

into the 2020 ring and billionaire tom steyer is apparently thinking about adding his name to that long list. "the washington post" robert costa has the new reporting. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design.

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was i wrong a few weeks ago? to somehow give the impression to people that i was praising those men who i successfully opposed time and again? well, yes, i was. i regret it. and i'm sorry for any of the pain or misconception i may have caused anybody. and to the extent that anybody thought that i meant something different, that is not what i intended. it is -- and it would be wrong for anybody to intend that. >> joe biden speaking at a campaign event in south carolina on saturday.

apologizing for how he described his work with segregationist senators after seeming to pass on apologizing when speaking with al sharpton a couple of days ago. welcome back to "morning joe." couple of weeks ago. welcome back to "morning joe." monday, july 8th. still with us, we have mike barnicle. white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire is with us. former aide to the george w. bush state departments, elise jordan. richard haass, and host of msnbc's "politicsnation," president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton is with us as well. and joining the conversation we have political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. he's the moderator of "washington week" on pbs. also with us nbc news correspondent mike memoli.

thanks for all being with us this hour. we have a lot going on, joe, especially with the latest snapshot of the president's ratings. >> yeah. reverend al, you were at the essence festival and you said a lot of the candidates were down there, talking about the different democratic candidates. i'm just curious what was your takeaway from what you heard not only from the candidates but more importantly the people that attended, what were they saying about the democrats in the field? >> i think the thing that i was most struck by was that most people are still evaluating where they may go. and it's going to be based on their interest. i think the novelty of just a black president is gone with the election and re-election of president obama. you're going to have to prove that you represent people's interests, that you really understand their life and that you have a clear track record

that makes people believe that you'll do it. so there was some enthusiasm, of course, for senator kamala harris. there was some for others. but i think joe biden is still a big factor and the fact that on saturday he made the apology, one that i think he should have made two weeks ago, but it resonated around the festival. and people are still saying i'm not sure yet. so i think anyone that thinks that the black vote is a lock for anyone is someone that is kidding themselves at this point. blacks like anyone else are going to vote their interests and what is going to be something that directly deal with their needs in our communities. >> all voters do. they vote their self-interests and that's the way it should be. they have to take care of their families. they have to take care of their jobs and take care of their communities so you're exactly right, rev. they don't -- that's the

characteristic that the voters look for the most. mike memoli you were there this weekend when joe biden offered his apology for saying that he had to work with segregationists to get bills passed in the 1970s. what pushed the biden campaign to do this weekend what he didn't do after the debate in his interview with reverend al and do they believe that this issue is behind them as they move forward now? >> yeah, joe, i was actually in south carolina with the rev for that interview and we spoke immediately after how we were surprised that the rev gave him every opportunity to offer that apology then and he refused to do so. joe biden as i think you all know is very -- he's a proud man. he's proud of his record and public service and it was i think a shock to him to see kamala harris go after him in such a frontal way in that debate. i think you have seen several stress tests for the biden

campaign. i think a lot of people assume he has this juggernaut of an operation like hillary clinton maybe did at the start of the 2016 campaign. they're still very much building that campaign together. they haven't even moved in to their full-time headquarters in philadelphia. then there was a stress test for the candidate himself. i think he's -- i think he began the campaign saying all the right things that he would work hard, harder than any other candidate, to earn support of voters. but it's been -- he's given the impression he wants to stay above the fray, not necessarily engage in the primary as he keeps his focus on president trump. and what advisers have been telling me is that the debate was a wake-up call for him and i think it was a clarifying moment and there's been a lot of focus on the apology in sumter, but we'll look back at it as a defining speech for the vice president. he really defined the view of public service, what brought him

into public service in the beginning. and how he views politics not just as trying to advance your own priority bus working across the aisle when you need to. i will say in terms in how he was received here, there was a deep well of support for joe biden as barack obama's former vice president especially with african-american voters but you saw as soon as biden offered that apology, the applause in the audience quickly and then the next day he was actually attending ame services at a local church here in charleston after he offered the remarks, one of the officiants was thanking god that he apologized there. there was a clear sense he needed to do this and they are ready to turn the page. >> if you saw the electorate from "the washington post," the abc news poll, you see that joe biden still comfortably ahead of other democratic candidates.

>> yeah. >> also, quite revealing, donald trump despite his meltdown last night, donald trump still at the high water mark of his presidency. >> 47% among registered voters. that's up five points from april. 50% disapprove. down four points. also looking at the issues, the president's strongest on the economy. 51% approving of his performance, 42% approve of the job on taxes. he gets 40% on foreign policy and on immigration, health care, 38% approve. among registered voters the poll finds president trump is currently down ten points to former vice president joe biden in that hypothetical 2020 match-up as you pointed out, joe. but effectively tied with senators kamala harris, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. and dead even with mayor pete

buttigieg. >> let me ask you, bob costa, the high water mark for president trump, 47%, that's among the registered voters. i suspect he'd be a couple of points if you narrowed it down more to likely voters but what's your takeaway on this poll, the 47% number? again, high water mark despite the fact that most americans say that he's unpresidential and actually consider him upside down on most issues. >> inside the white house and on capitol hill when you're talking to lawmakers in both parties, they believe president trump is riding the bounce from the mueller report. that entire investigation finishing. yes, he still faces the special counsel coming to congress next week to testify. but they believe the economy and the end of the mueller report have helped the president lift up in the approval ratings and the economy's strength really is

a boon to him. it's very helpful for the president to have the economic numbers but there's a lot of uneasiness still. a little beneath the numbers. you have a president wary of the federal reserve, not sure he'll get a rate cut, unhappy with chairman powell and you have the trade wars with china and mexico hovering over the presidency. for now as the economy stabilizes a bit the president feels confident in the approval numbers but that doesn't mean it couldn't change tomorrow and the numbers are not exactly solid. they're solid with the core supporters but not exactly at the top. >> so as for the race for the democratic nomination, the abc news/"washington post" poll has former vice president joe biden leading the field at 30% with senator bernie sanders at 19%, senator kamala harris at 13%. and senator elizabeth warren at 12%. while mayor buttigieg is in a distant fifth place with 4%.

meanwhile, 45% of democrats think biden is best positioned to defeat president trump next year. the abc/"washington post" poll finds that 18% view sanders as the best bet to win while 9% pick harris and 7% pick warren. biden holding strong there. >> holding strong there. jonathan lemire, it is early but you look at the polls it seems that at least this one resets from several that were taken immediately after that first debate which i personally thought was disastrous for joe biden. >> i think that's right. there's a sense of some stability perhaps for the biden campaign which seemed to be really taking on water there over the last couple of weeks. the comment about the segregationists, he did now finally apologize for. uneven debate performance, a few other sort of flip-flops about his record and head scratching months. it is also -- he's -- we're starting to see him again.

he gave a network cable interview after going a couple of weeks without doing that. he's not had the aggressive campaign schedule that some of his rivals to the nomination have done. so i think there is a little bit of an exhale but we'll see. this is a race that on the whole though those numbers look good for biden in terms of going head to head with donald trump, and some of that is still i think perhaps voters -- you know, paying some preliminary attention, buying into the conventional wisdom is that joe biden is best positioned to do that. but the energy among democrats is pretty dispirit and other candidates like senators warren and harris have cut into his lead. so i think that biden would be the front-runner, this is going to be a race and it's going to be close for a long time. >> yeah, you know, richard, as jonathan just pointed out, i mean, the rise and the strength of kamala harris and elizabeth warren is really striking over the past month and i'm wondering

what you think about the overwhelming number that joe biden gets as best able to beat donald trump compared to i think it was 9% and 7% that warren and harris could beat president trump. that's kind of a no pun intended trump card for joe biden. >> it is. i think it shows the kind of exhaustion with trump, the personality, and that joe biden represents a pair of safe, familiar hands and people want a president who is more of a traditional president. i think the takeaway from this morning is the trump numbers, by the way, if he lost his phone, and played golf for the next 18 months he would probably be in a stronger position with the any than if he keeps coming at us. i think it helps joe biden because he's familiar, we're comfortable with him, everybody likes him. it says to me that people want a more normal presidency once and i think that redounds to joe biden's favor. >> you said that joe biden did an interview finally after the

delays where he would end up responding to gaffes at fund-raisers and took him a couple of weeks to recover from the debate performance and to recover from the segregationist gaffe. the slowness of the pace of the response, how will that be when he's up against trump who is going to be just, you know, clouding the field, the airwaves constantly if he's lagging and not putting himself out there. >> well, reverend al, you know joe biden better than anybody at this table, other than joe and mika. but when you get joe biden running for the presidency of the united states, it's going to be the bloodiest, the most vicious campaign that i think america has ever seen. how do you go about that? >> i think you're right that it's going to be vicious. donald trump knows no boundaries and he has no filter. i think the important thing is that the opponent must not fight

him with his fight plan. you have to use a different fight plan than he. he wants to pull you in to his encounters. his back and forward. you have to find a way to either go around that or above that. because you're not going to match him being a bully and not going to match him in how grotesque he can act. you can raise it to a different level that he's not prepared to fight. i think that that is where a lot of people make mistakes. i learned as an old boxing fan is that when you fight the other guy's fight plan you lose. that's his strength. you have to fight a different fight plan. mika and joe scarborough will tell you dave won because he used the breast plate and don't play goliath's fight plan. >> kamala harris has shown an

ability to take it to others and that a lot of people are saying that could be very interesting. i guess her language has been very tough so she's not shrinking. >> well, "the new york times" reports that americans are overly optic, they have an overly optimistic perception of economic mobility and that might hinder the chances of democratic presidential candidates who advocate sweeping changes like free college or universal health care or protecting the consumer from big banks. this map from a survey by researchers from harvard university shows children in each state who were born into the lowest fifth of income ranks, then moved up into the top fifth by adulthood with some of the lowest social mobility in the deep south. >> so let me explain the map. what that means is let's take a

state like mississippi where it says 4.5%. what that means is if you were a child born in the lowest fifth income wise in mississippi, you only have a 4.5% chance of going from the lowest fifth to the highest fifth. of americans earning income. obviously look at the states that do very well, california almost at 10%. utah at 12%. so it's interesting, mika, in the south you see upward mobility is actually at its lowest and those in fact are the states along with ohio which is only at 5.6% where donald trump is doing the best. >> oh, boy. so when the researchers asked people to estimate a child's chances of moving from the bottom fifth to the top fifth, some of the most optimistic estimates came from the same region where the perception of

opportunity was either double or even triple of what the reality is. so elise, you know, the challenge for democrats is going to be able to sort of establish the reality and then propose the solution to the problem. but if you don't feel you have the problem, why are you even going to listen? >> well, i also would argue that perhaps the democrats their inability to really see the deep south as a place where they can play and they're stakeholders and actively putting resources outside of urban centers and speaking to rural voters who might be more socially conservative but would tend to support democrats, i would say that that is a huge shortcoming of the democratic strategy and you look at states where, you know, like georgia where stacey abrams did come out to play and georgia though granted has more metropolitan centers and bases than other places in the deep south. but i just think that democrats

shouldn't see the playing ground and should make the case to voters that they have solutions that aren't currently being offered by the incumbent republican strong holds. >> you have -- >> go ahead. >> well, you have to really pay attention this year to the gubernatorial race in kentucky and the gubernatorial race in louisiana. we saw doug jones of alabama it was against roy moore but a democrat won in alabama. stacey abrams in 2018, andrew gillum running for governor in florida. beto o'rourke in texas, all democrats in the south and they made the calculus that many are making. instead of running to the center and running as a milquetoast democrat trying to win over the centrist republican, run to stoke the democratic base. get hispanics in georgia as well as black voters to turn out. get white liberals to turn out. build a new kind of younger,

more dynamic, more diverse coalition and that's the path to victory. that's the case many democrats are making if they want to come back in trump country in the south. >> well, you know, richard haass, it's interesting. let's put up that map again of the actual percentages because as you put that up, you actually see the states where there's at least income -- the intergenerational mobility. the deep south is where donald trump did the best. whether you're talking about alabama or south carolina. and also, how fascinating that ohio is in the island in the midwest, lower than everywhere else below them. and that is the state where donald trump in a way that surprised a lot of political observers, has really taken off and, you know, it's a state that barack obama won in 2012. but that donald trump won going away in 2016. and also, not so hard to draw a

direct line from ohio and alabama directly over to northern england where you have a lot of former laborites now supporting brexit. >> it's exactly right. where people feel that their prospects tomorrow is not necessarily going to be better than today. much more vulnerable, if you will, to the politics of redistribution or resentment. i take that map as a real warning beyond the immediate politics and it says it's a real indictment of public education in this country and it's a real message if we can't make the american dream upward mobility, if we can't make that real that's where populism comes from. that's where the politics of redistribution come from. we're not going to grow the pie, tomorrow is not going to be better. so we have to go after those who have and give it to those who have not. so i take that map as actually a

real collective warning signal to this country. that if we don't make mobility real and not just a dream or a slogan but we don't make it real, then our politics will move to both end zones and it will get extremely divisive in a sense we're beginning to see that future. it's increasing our present. >> important insight. it's a dire warning and you're exactly right, richard. bob costa, you have some reporting on tom steyer who of course has been known over the past year or so, running millions of dollars worth of tv commercials calling for the impeachment of donald trump. now you're report argue that he -- you're reporting that he may be jumping in on the 2020 presidential race. tell us about your report. >> here's why it matters. the billionaire former hedge fund manager tom steyer said in january he wouldn't run for president but he's become dissatisfied with the democratic field and this person who is worth over $1 billion now wants

to jump in. he could pull the field to the left. he's been running a grass roots group called need to impeach. at times annoying democratic leaders who think he's rushing the process. he'll be calling for impeachment if he gets in on tuesday and he'll be talking about climate change in the way that jay inslee and others are do. but with his kind of network, it will be hard to see how he doesn't get on the debate stage. >> all right. robert costa, thank you very much and mike memoli, what are you looking at today? >> well, we also as you talk about a possible candidate getting in the race, we may be losing a candidate. one of those who on the debate stage was very direct in taking on joe biden. that was the congressman eric swalwell of california. he has a press conference today. we'll be seeing if that's to get out of the race. he already has some folks eager to run for his congressional seat. and he's a member of the intelligence committee and the judiciary committee.

obviously who have critical roles so i think what you might see is an effort to return to that and protect his political future in what is an unwinnable nomination fight at the current time. >> all right, mike, thank you very much for your reporting and still ahead on "morning joe," well connected financier and convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein is expected to appear in court today in connection to federal sex trafficking allegations. and the agreement that kept him from serving a lengthy prison sentence a decade ago might not shield him this time around. that is next on "morning joe." that is next on "morning joe." i, you should know the location of a decent bathroom. my gut says, take new benefiber healthy balance. this daily supplement helps maintain digestive health naturally while relieving occasional constipation and abdominal discomfort. new benefiber healthy balance

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incidents spanning from 2002 to 2005. officials said the 66-year-old epstein had flown from paris to new york when he was arrested in teterbo teterboro, new jersey. the epstein case was led by the southern district of new york's public corruption unit working with sex -- with the sex crimes division. the nypd, the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york and the fbi declined to comment. joining us now, nbc news investigations reporter tom winter. and former assistant united states attorney in the southern district of new york, mimi rocah. she is a distinguished professor at pace school of law and an msnbc legal analyst. tom, we'll start with you on the reporting othen. this has been a long, drawn out

case with epstein of course with the first set of charges against him just completely contained by i believe now a cabinet official who was working in florida. what are the possibilities right now for epstein and for others to face charges, more charges linked to all of this? >> well, the possibilities are not good, mika. and you're correct to point out others involved. at the time -- last night i went through the palm beach police department's case file and they were prepared to move against epstein's assistants and to charge them as well with the recruiting girls and knowing that they were underaged and knowing what they were being recruited for to give quote/unquote massages, that were sexual encounters. i think when you look at who was brought here and when you look at the state case file, the evidence that they uncovered,

five victims, 17 people that they talked to, they talked to one of his former house workers who said that epstein ordered him to send a dozen roses to a local high school for one of these girls. when you look at that type of information, what they were able to develop about some of the people that worked for him, i think the idea of possible further prosecutions is certainly possible although i don't think we'll hear about that today. >> so earlier we had julie brown from "the miami herald" in -- >> terrific reporting. >> yeah. actually started the whole thing, i would think, in terms of the public. she had over 80 -- 8-0 -- 80 young girls, young women, who were subjected to this depravity by this guy. you have seen the tape from the warrant, from the search warrant, the search warrant in jeffrey epstein's home on the upper east side -- >> palm beach, actually. >> what was on the tape?

>> so the tape was taken when they entered the home. they had been conducting searches of his trash, so hay -- so they got the western unions documents and went into his house. it was interesting to see the things that were redacted. lawfully they can't show me video or images depicting an underage girl naked and there were several redactions on that tape indicating to me there were several pictures that showed an underaged girl naked that were leading into his bedroom. in addition to that when we look at this tape there's a before and an after. there's what they found when they first entered the house and there's what they took. when you see the second part of the tape, they took numerous pictures of young girls, pictures we cannot show on the air because they're victims of a crime and he had picture

collages. the small little pictures that were just set up of all sorts of pictures with different girls. all those were taken. that was from his private bedroom and bathroom area and some he pleaded guilty to took place. so it was a stark tape for us to see when we got it as part of a lawful public records request. >> mimi, in 2008, epstein pleaded guilty to state charges and as part of -- and secretary costa was involved with that prosecution. he signed a nonprosecution agreement with the u.s. attorney's office. why now? why is he potentially -- why is he facing more charges? walk us through that. >> the nonprosecution agreement that he signed with the u.s. attorney's office in florida as tom actually highlighted for me last night is specifically limited in its language to the office in florida. it's like a contract. if you enter into a contract with someone what is the language of the contract say? well, in that contract it says

this office will not further prosecute you for these crimes. so it doesn't bind the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. that's .1. .2 is that -- i think we'll know much more later today when we see the charges, but this conduct is going to probably overlap to some degree with florida because it really was sort of one big sex trafficking conspiracy where he had girls going back and forth. but it's also going to involve new conduct that i think was not previously known or charged in florida. so they'll have sort of different arguments about why this prosecution should go forward. and putting aside the law for a second, you know, this is the case where i think the southern district of new york is doing absolutely the right thing. justice was not served in that first case. i mean, it is a travesty what jeffrey epstein was allowed to get away with. that he sexually abused and

raped and -- himself and allowed others so many young girls. that is one of the most serious federal crimes i have ever involved in prosecuting. i mean we are talking about 10, 15, 20 years in prison and he got a slap on the wrist. we don't know why exactly but now it's time for him to face serious federal felony charges. >> yeah. mimi and tom, i want you both to address this. but just yes or no at first. so you talk about what he was allowed to get away with. is it clear that prosecutors, alex acosta specifically, allowed him to get away with these crimes? >> yes. >> or at least -- okay. so that's -- >> here's why i would say so, just briefly. in the nonprosecution agreement that has his name on it, there's eight specific prosecutorial areas that the fbi in his office, his own prosecutors found at his time they were engaged in and they were serious

crimes to mimi's point. i'm looking at the mpa involving minors and trafficking them that they were aware of. so yeah, it's concerning. >> here's the question. what is alex acosta's intention to do this? what would he gain out of letting this guy basically run scot-free after abusing dozens of young girls and also inviting his friends to and letting others -- like what is alex acosta, what does he have to gain? i mean, he's made a fool of himself in the law community, but even more he's let a predator go scot-free. why? what is behind that? >> well -- >> is he involved? i've got to ask. is he protecting himself? >> i don't know the answer. there are not indications that he himself -- that i know of, that he himself acosta was involved, but what there are indications -- i mean, if you

look at the judge's opinion they violated the law by not informing in fact deliberately concealing from the victims the state plea, what you see when you read that opinion when you hear the details of how the plea negotiations happened, is that alex acosta was very close with attorneys who were representing epstein. they knew each other from their law firm days. i think at best this was a case of sort of an old boys network. we know each other. you know, alex acosta had a meeting with one of the defense attorneys privately away from the u.s. attorney's office in a restaurant that's highly unusual and improper in the ongoing case. >> aren't there ramifications for this behavior? should he face charges? >> well, there -- is it criminal, i don't know. we need more details. i mean, could it be that he took some kind of a bribe, it could be. that would be criminal. we don't know that yet. there is an investigation going on in the office of professional

responsibility in the department of justice. i hope that uncovers some facts. i hope that the southern district of new york if there are facts that indicate criminal activity will take up that mantel, but it's shouting with red flags about the conduct but we need to know more. >> there's something here in our reporting that strikes me, which is that this investigation is by led by the public corruption unit here in new york, it's not something run by the sex crimes division. that's not to minimize that. but it says to me that they're going to look at this in a broader sense. when you look at barry crisser in, the state attorney for the local prosecutor at the time who put together the plea deal, you look at some of the communications from the police chief asking him why are you treating this case so unusually, we have those letters, we have those documents. and that when you look at this

nonprosecution agreement i think people who touched this case at the higher levels, not those doing the actual investigating but those who touched the case from the higher levels and i think mika, looking at who is looking at this case i think we'll hopefully get some more answers to some of those questions that you asked. >> should be super interesting. mimi rocah and tom winter, thank you both very much. coming up, it has been 68 years since golf's british open has been played in northern ireland. we'll tell you why it's been that long and the significance of next week's return. the great david feherty will join us next on "morning joe."

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i think it will all work out, it will work out very well and also for you. with your wall, your border, when we have a border situation in the united states and you have one over here. but i hear it's going to work out very well. >> the border wall -- >> i think we do. i think you do. the way it looks now is good and we want to try to keep it that way. i think it's a big point of contention with regard to brexit

is your border and i'm sure it's going to work out well. i know we'll focus heavily on it. >> is this trip for you just promoting your golf course? >> no, this trip is about great relationships we have with the uk and i really wanted to do the stop in ireland because of the relationship i have with the people and with the prime minister. >> that was president trump during his meeting with prime minister -- ireland's prime minister last month before d-day while making one of the two scheduled visits to his ireland based golf course. next week, neighboring northern ireland will play host to 156 of the world's best golfers as the 148th open championship is set to begin at royal portrush for just the second time in nearly 70 years. joining us now is golf channel and nbc sports host david

feherty. good to have you with us along with that. >> thank you, mika. yeah. that's the holy grail right there. >> right there. okay. well -- >> so as our eyes set upon the holy grail right there, tell us, david, why northern ireland, why now? >> well, why is -- it hasn't been there i think in nearly 70 years. 1951 was the last time it was there and why, well, it hasn't been there more often because obviously of the political situation in northern ireland, the troubles. >> so if brexit goes ahead and if one of the possibilities is northern ireland joins with ireland, this could be the last time the open would be in northern because if northern ireland becomes part of ireland you'd no longer have the british open. >> that would be true. you know? i mean, i think that's unlikely certainly in the near future t but, yeah, that would be true. >> so david, first of all, let's

get to some common sense questions here. who allowed you to hang around with that and how many times have you lost it? >> well, i lost it a couple of times. you know, i got close to winning it and didn't. but this one i haven't lost. no. but that has happened with other trophies. >> you know, playing golf in ireland, you're largely dependent on caddies who know the course and everything like that. so the pros they have their own caddies. but this course, portrush, which i played years ago is going to be dependent on course knowledge. obviously. >> yes. >> but does it favor or hinder like long hitters like brooks koepka, dustin johnson, people like that? >> links courses typically don't favor the longer hitter, depending on how they play. you know if they play hard and fast, and which i think is unlikely. portrush is way up north, i was there a few weeks ago to shoot promos and we had misty, soft days there.

but the golf course is like velvet. the members and visitors have been playing off mats since i think the middle of last year so there's hardly a divot out there. you know, someone who hits fairways i think will -- they'll do extremely well. a lot of rough so hitting it straight will be a lot more important than hitting it far. >> yeah. >> you know, david, now we understand why it's been so long since they played there. >> it makes total sense. >> it's still recovering from when barnicle played there, 53 -- >> ruined it. >> thank you for that, alex. >> but david, there's something special about the open even for americans watching. as technology gets better, as the golfers get stronger, they can hit the ball. so many of them -- over 300 yards. that's something wonderfully humbling about watching the open

and seeing guys hunker down, getting out the 7 irons to hit it 50 yards into the howling win. talk about the weather, the environment and what makes the open really i personally think the most exciting -- the most exciting championship to watch. >> yeah. i would agree. you get the vagaries of the weather and in the british isles in particular. when you get towards the coast, it's really a special kind of golf. golf in the united states, for example, is target golf. it's still target golf when you get to the british isles but the target is moving. and you have to -- you have to decide where you're going to land the ball and read not just what it's going to do when it gets on the green but read what it's going to do, you know, sometimes 50, 60 yards short. you know, there's something special about golf in bad weather. and i think we have probably

seen that. i think it's nice to see the players struggle from time to time and i can say that now that i don't have to play it. >> yeah. i was going to ask if you had a story, a stupid, stupid thing to ask a golf pro if they have a story. i want you to tell us a story about the most harrowing conditions that you have played in at the open. did you have any of those days like we saw three or four years ago where the winds were howling so much that everybody was playing their irons the entire round. >> yeah, i played in the open championship in -- at turnberry, it blew and rained so hard that the seagulls walked. you could -- you could actually see the seagull and it would look at you like really what have you got? like it could be worse than this. and i was wearing red boxer shorts and the reason that's significant is it rained so hard that i was pink at the end of it

from the waist down all the way to my toes. >> okay. >> yeah. >> all right. that sounds like harrowing in many ways. >> it is harrowing in many ways. >> you can watch the open championship next thursday. >> won't see that. i promise you won't see that. >> on the golf channel and nbc. david feherty, thank you for being on the show and bringing the holy grail with you. coming up president trump used to mock the former president obama for using teleprompters and now he's blaming one of those devices for a comment -- a major comment that he made about airports during the revolutionary war. that's ahead on "morning joe." ♪ (music plays throughout)

♪ ♪

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welcome back. more court filings are on the way as the justice department announced a major shakeup in the

ongoing legal battle to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. the doj swapped out lawyers arguing the case on sunday bringing in an entirely new team of career and political appointee attorneys to replace the attorneys who had been in the process of winding down the year-long legal battle. the doj did not offer any specifics on why the change was made. but a person familiar with the matter tells "the washington post" that some of the original team expressed concerns over the legal maneuvering ordered by president trump. >> well, they have a lot of reasons to be concerned about this. i talk a lot about the signal and the noise, the noise as far as i'm concerned all the fourth of july hubbub, it's noise. it signalled, jonathan lemire, when you have the president of the united states moving forward against a ruling that the united states supreme court has already

put down. that actually could move toward a constitutional crisis and i haven't said that, that phrase since of course robert mueller's investigation winded down. is donald trump really going to push forward despite the supreme court ruling? >> he's at least considering it. he certainly hasn't given up the idea of putting the citizenship question on the census. he's raged according to our reporting behind the scenes at wilbur ross, gave up this fight too easily. he is mulling an executive order in order to institute it this way. we saw the shakeup at the department of justice. it's unclear if he'll follow through. that's being debated at the white house right now. but you're right if this does he forge forward with this, it will be in defiance of the courts and begin the constitutional crisis. >> it would be. that is obviously stepping over a line that even donald trump hasn't stepped over yet.

and -- >> give him time. >> constitutional crisis, and chaos. by the way, richard haass, thank you for coming in. >> thank you, richard. >> and braving -- being brave enough to sit around the table despite the fact that the red sox are now breathing down the new york yankees' neck as we go into all-star break. you guys only have a nine-game lead over us. nobody would have predicted, nobody. like the 1980s. this is like -- >> ten games in the wash column. >> the u.s. hockey win, nobody would have predicted we would have swept the tigers in detroit but we did. watch out, richard. watch out, yankees. what say you? >> ten games in the loss column. that's what say i. >> we got you right where we want you. >> overconfident. overconfident. >> all right. president trump's approval rating edges up to the highest point of his presidency. but ahead of 2020 he's still struggling in head to head match-ups against several

democratic candidates. we're digging into the new numbers. plus, house speaker nancy pelosi throws more shade at a group of freshmen congresswoman over her support for funding to deal with the migrant crisis on the border. we'll look at her new digs at lawmakers including aoc. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. joe" is back in two minutes. ort lasts all day. the bad news? so does his energy. new depend® fit-flex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. be there with depend®. tthe bad news? ouyour patience might not.ay. new depend® fit-flex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. be there with depend®. we run right into these crises, and we do not leave until normalcy is restored. we'd been working for days on a site in a storm devastated area. a family pulled up. it was a mom and her kids. everything they had had been washed away.

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relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. in june of 1775, the continental congress created a unified army. our army manned the airports, it ran the ramparts, took over the airports, it did everything it had to do. i stood in the rain, the teleprompter went out. >> is that what happened with the airport comment and the revolutionary airport? >> the teleprompter, it went out. i don't use teleprompters like the president. i speak from the heart. maybe when you run for president you shouldn't be allowed to use a teleprompter because you find out what you're getting.

if you run for president you shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompter. you don't know if the guy is smart. i guess the rain knock out the teleprompter. >> it was the teleprompter's fault. president trump blamed the lack of a teleprompter for saying that george washington's army took over the airports in 1775. that would be approximately 128 years before the very first flight. >> well, there is of course parallel even the ancient history. of course cesar would have never crossed the rubicon. >> that's true. >> by that point in his reign he had control of the steam ships. it made a difference. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july the 8th. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire. former aide to the george w.

bush white house and state department, elise jordan. the host of msnbc's "politicsnation" and president of the action network, reverend al sharpton. a lot is happening on this monday morning. joe biden apologizes for how his described the past work with segregationist senators but reminds everyone of his record serving with brohm. billionaire convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein will appear in manhattan federal court today, arrested over the weekend in connection with what law enforcement officials say is sex trafficking allegations. iran is about to breach another limit. newly leaked memos reveal the british ambassador to the united states sees president trump as quote, inept, insecure and incompetent. a major shakeup by the justice department and the ongoing legal

battle to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. >> and ignore the united states supreme court by doing it. >> and that. and then this. a record fourth world cup title for the u.s. women's national team. take a listen. wow. they'll be honored with a ticker tape parade in new york city later this week. while still looking for the equalizer against the men's game when it comes to pay and i am rooting for them, joe. >> well, i'll tell you what, mika, even after their victory chants about equal pay rose in the stadium in paris. very exciting time for the united states. very exciting also because of what they were fighting for in their entire quest. but jonathan lemire, mike

barnicle, of course, the most exciting event yesterday, our boston red sox. >> yeah. >> i can't even say it with a straight face. our boston red sox tried to blow the third -- the third consecutive game. they tried -- they tried to blow the third consecutive lead but they win and now we are on the razor's edge as we go into the all-star break, only just a game or two or nine behind the new york yankees. >> yeah. epic sweep of the detroit tigers. jonathan, i don't know. you know? >> yeah. i don't know that will be the sporting event from the weekend that we remember. i was going to say something about how, you know, my two boys, ages 7 and 4 were really inspired by the women's world cup team, rooting for them. like they would any other team. and then my oldest also asked about the red sox yesterday.

i said, oh they're winning, well, dad, have the relief pitchers come in yesterday and i was like, okay, that may change when they do. from the mouths of babes they understand the perilous situation we are in. >> so are you telling me they have taken down their posters of hembree already? >> yeah. the boys bedroom, hembree posters are down. it's a bunch of kids in single a and hopefully in a couple of years they'll have it. >> okay, mika, i'm sorry -- >> it's fine. >> why don't we start with more news that you may not want to talk about. >> you know what? you needed a good laugh because we begin with the latest snapshot of president trump's approval and potential 2020 match-ups. the abc news/"washington post" poll had the rating at 47% among registered voters. up five points from april and 50% disapprove, down four

points. judging by the issues the president is strongest on the economy, 51% approving of the performance and 42% approve of his job on taxes and 40% approval on foreign policy and on immigration. on health care, 38% approve. among registered voters, the poll finds president trump is currently down ten points to former vice president joe biden in a hypothetical 2020 match-up. but effectively tied with senators kamala harris and bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. and dead even with mayor pete buttigieg. >> so mike, very interesting. let's start -- we'll get to the democratic match-ups in a second, but mike, let's start with the president at 47% among registered voters. and let's talk about why that is. but i think we do have to start though with an asterisk around that because the president was on -- was in meltdown mode last night. something is going on that has

him deeply agitated. normally he would be bragging about these poll numbers. he certainly should given everything that he's been through. but instead he was melting down last night. i don't know if it was that jeffrey epstein case, at his own justice department, that's once again put him in the legal cross hairs or if it was something else. but any insight into -- first of all, any insight into the twitter rant when he got the best polling news of his presidency? >> well, isn't it part and parcel of his behavior as president, joe? any other president feasting on these economic numbers, on a daily basis, on a weekly basis would focus solely on the economics on the fact that the economy is booming. wouldn't talk about anything else. but this particular president seems to veer left, right, all sorts of different directions when things bother him inter

naturally. it was a recent hire by fox news that was a one tweet, things like. that but he's distracted from the main goal i would think of his handlers to focus on the economy and try to convince people this is why he would deserve a second term. i think the biggest thing in the polls if you look at the internals is the number of women who would not support donald trump under any circumstances. that number hasn't moved in a long while and it's a fairly substantial number, it's going to be very, very difficult for him to win re-election. >> you know, elise, he's sitting at 47% of registered voters. >> you'd think he would be happy. >> the chances are good the numbers go even higher when you go from registered voters to likely voters. which of course is too early to try figuring out who those likely voters are going to be, but historically he does higher among likely voters. so the question is for democrats as they're trying to figure out

exactly why right now donald trump continues to rise in the poll, the question is whether it was their own performance at the last democratic debate that finally sharpened the focus of a lot of americans who said, wait a second. i really liked the generic democrat against donald trump, but i don't really care too much for the people i saw in miami last week. >> i wonder how closely voters really pay -- how much attention was paid to that first debate. it really is just so early and to state the obvious i think that donald trump is benefitting in a huge way from an economy that isn't of his own making but he continues to reap the rewards of it. as long as that strength is still there overall, people -- it will be very hard to boot an incumbent out of office. i was just more disturbed this past weekend over the course of, you know, that bizarre speech about, you know, raising the airports during the revolutionary war and then the bizarre rant this weekend just the fundamental instability of

donald trump right now. and this behavior you saw in any major ceo or a family member you would be gravely concerned. i wonder, rev, you have known him for so many years. is this getting more extreme or is this just par for the course? >> no, i think it is more extreme. he has always been different, let's put it that way. and always been a megalomaniac. but i don't recall him ever seeing airports in the 18th century and denying climate change. i think we are seeing him either the pressure of being president has made him worse or there are other factors. but he's clearly gone beyond even the bizarre behavior we are used to in new york. >> and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> what if anything would you like to say about the

kamala/biden dustup? he apologized today. do you have any thoughts about that? >> i do not. >> okay. >> former first lady michelle obama stayed silent on the recent clash between joe biden and senator kamala harris. we'll have the latest on the democratic race ahead. but first, here's bill karins with the check on the forecast. >> good morning to you, mika, and we have a weather that's arriving in washington, d.c. a thunderstorm complex. a flash flood warning for the northern half of if beltway, a heavy thunderstorm is moving down to the beltway. you can see the capitol here and how it's gotten dark in a hurry. not as bad at the white house. you can see on the radar above us here this bright red coloring under the "s" and the "h" as some lightning strikes are arriving here. i have been driving around washington, d.c., be prepared for some torrential rains and downpours. we had a tornado in areas outside is of philadelphia, in

the areas of new jersey. this was what we call a land spout tornado. it was small but it took that little black car and flipped it right over. pretty incredible stuff. it was kind of dancing around there in the parking lot. other weather stories, yesterday, by the way was 85 degrees in anchorage. remember last week they were at 90, they're doing 85 again today. this will be three times in the last week that they have been at or above their all-time record high temperature. incredible. it will cool off in the days ahead. in the tropics, a little area of low pressure, now over south carolina and georgia is going to head for the northern gulf war water and this can become a tropical depression or storm by the middle or the end of this week. we'll continue to watch that develop. if you're in texas, louisiana, northern florida, keep an eye on that. it's hurricane season and it can spin up quickly as we get to this time of the year. new york city has had on and off light rain, west of the city in new jersey, through the poconos.

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for the race for the democratic nomination, the abc news/"washington post" poll has former vice president joe biden leading the field at 30% with senator bernie sanders at 19%. senator kamala harris at 13% and senator elizabeth warren at 12%. while mayor pete buttigieg is in a distant fifth place with 4%. in the real clear politics polling average a recent surge for senator harris since the june 27th debate has moved her past sanders and warren into second place. meanwhile, 45% of democrats think biden is best positioned to defeat president trump next year.

the abc "washington post" poll finds that 18% view sanders as the best bet to win and 9% pick harris and 7%, senator waren. >> reverend al, what do you think of those numbers? and obviously, joe biden's numbers fluctuate. i know that michelle obama over the weekend was asked to get involved in the debate between joe biden and kamala harris and she said not going to take that bait. also, brought up the fact that it was just so early, that things were going to change so much and of course she should know because this time 12 years ago mika was flying to iowa, interviewed michelle there who was at that time along with her husband very frustrated that black voters were still supporting hillary clinton over barack obama by pretty good numbers. that of course changed dramatically and this race could

change dramatically too. what are you hearing on the ground? what are you hearing in the churches? what are you hearing in places like south carolina? >> well, i spent the last four days at the essence festival where it's the largest gathering of black women where michelle obama spoke. i have been there every year for 25 years. and their coming together was a little different this year. we had six of the major candidates so you could hear the buzz from all over the country and people are saying it is early. when ms. obama referred to the statement you made there at the essence festival, when she referred to when at this point in her and barack obama's race, they were totally lower on the polls. and there was still a lot of blacks saying we don't know him. we can't hardly say their name

so you can't say where it is going. you can make a big mistake in not being -- and not be forgiven. but it is more difficult to make a good mark that will be remembered. so i think we're at the point that people are saying, don't make any big mistake they'll remember six weeks from now, but they have to remember your policy proposals the next day. >> mika, it's so important for people that look at the candidates, look at their race, and try to match that up with the voters. it's so important for them to realize that's just not how voters vote. on a much different scale i always said when i ran i was 29 years old and the younger voters were the most skeptical of me and it was the older voters that voted for me. in 2007, 2008, which with a heck of a lot more on the line, barack obama -- i mean, very

easy to look back and say, barack obama won the black vote -- no. he had to fight. you remember your interview, the frustration with michelle obama. >> yeah. >> remember the team's frustration that barack obama had to convince black voters that voting for him was in their best personal interest. because people vote for their very specific personal best interests. they don't vote for an idea. they don't vote for a symbol. they vote to make their household better. and so i think what we're seeing right now, these folks it's awfully early but what we're seeing in the polls is a lot of people -- if you put up the numbers again about, you know, the head to heads, right now it's joe biden who is the only one that's clearly ahead because a lot of democrats still believe despite his very poor debate performance believe that joe biden has the best chance to beat donald trump. >> and counter to the point that

it's early, the ratings for the democratic debate were pretty high. people are watching. i think this is a presidency that has people on the edge of their seat. that's a little bit trump driven, that's the way he rolls and some are worried about the direction that this country is headed in and i think they're tuned in. i don't know. i guess it's early, but i still think it matters. coming up more than a decade after jeffrey epstein was given the sweetheart plea deal, the u.s. government is now working to hold the wealthy sex offender accountable. brand-new accounting next on "morning joe." brand-new accounting next on "morning joe." johnson & johnson is a baby company. but we're also a company that controls hiv,

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thankfully, the governor's charter school policy task force just made important recommendations for reform: more accountability on charter school spending. and giving local school districts more control over the authorization of charter schools. reforms we need to pass now. so call your state senator. ask them to support ab 1505 and ab 1507. welcome back. convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein was arrested on saturday in connection with the law enforcement allegations at. according to three officials the arrest which was part of a joint nypd and fbi investigation stems from incidents spanning from the years 2002 to 2005. officials said the 66-year-old epstein had flown from paris to

new york when he was arrested in teterboro, new jersey. a source familiar with the investigation says the epstein case was led by the southern district of new york's public corruption unit. working with the sex crimes division. the nypd, the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york and the fbi declined to comment. epstein is expected to appear before a federal magistrate judge to face charges that include sex trafficking of minors for which there's no statute of limitations. separately, a federal judge ruled in february that prosecutors led now by secretary of labor alex acosta violated the rights of epstein's alleged victims after two of them sued the government for not telling them about a nonprosecution deal until it had been finalized. in 2008, epstein dodged major

jail time after pleading guilty to solis dating and procuring a person under 18 for prostitution. in an agreement with federal authorities he served a 13 month jail sentence but listen to this, was allowed to spend much of it at his office through a work release program. under those federal charges epstein could have faced life in prison. the deal ended the fbi's investigation in to numerous accusations against epstein and granted immunity from the more serious federal charges, but according to "the new york times" the ruling opened the possibility of nullifying the agreement and allowing epstein to be prosecuted on the original federal charges. at the same time, the justice department opened its own investigation into the plea deal and whether its attorneys committed professional misconduct in resolving the case

in 2008. yes, they did. >> so jonathan lemire, tell me exactly what happened. what do you know about the southern district of new york moving on an old friend of donald trump's and justice department allowing an investigation to move forward that obviously is going to cause discomfort not only to donald trump but also possibly to bill clinton and others who have been jeffrey epstein's friend for some time. donald trump calling epstein in a past interview a terrific guy who liked young girls. any reporting on that, how it moved forward and was donald trump aware that it was moving forward and did he give the go ahead? >> well, our next guest certainly is the definitive expert on this issue. but certainly i can speak to the white house's perspective on this. president trump yesterday he spent the weekend at the golf club in new jersey, he was asked about it whether he knew about the arrest and he claimed he

didn't which seems dubious considering how he weighed in on cable news coverage all weekend long and certainly the epstein matter was covered extensively on all the networks. from our reporting we know he was briefed that it was happening. you're right, he has ties. deep, long standing ties to epstein. he's quoted in i believe in the 2002 "new york" magazine profile about epstein saying he was a great guy and went on to say perhaps in a jocular way that epstein enjoyed young women which carries a different meaning now, perhaps. we know that epstein knew president clinton and that he traveled on his plane more than a dozen times over the years. there is excessive concern around the white house where this can go. the president is saying he doesn't know much about this. it's unclear how personally involved he was with the decision to make this arrest yesterday or over the weekend in new jersey but it's something that people are watching nervously here. this is a shadow that's followed

donald trump and bill clinton and i think there's concern about what could happen next. >> well, joining us now is the investigative reporter who has been covering the epstein case for "the miami herald." julie brown, great to have you back on the show, julie. >> thanks for having me. >> give us a sense of what the charges are against him now, now that the -- i guess the runway has been cleared to charge him again. and what more is expected? are you looking at given the fact that you have great knowledge of all the different tentacles surrounding this case. >> well, i think what we want to look at is what kind of evidence that they have, especially what kind of new evidence that they have. it's probably likely that they have some kind of new evidence out of new york. because the charges out of florida the justice department has ruled that they're not going to reprosecute him on those charges. so they probably have some new information. among the new evidence could be

witnesses or people that worked with him who now want to talk to authorities. you know, a lot of time has gone by, some of the people might be thinking differently about their role in this operation that he was running. so we'll have to wait and see what kind of witnesses or possibly employees that worked for him might be providing to authorities. >> julie, one of the reasons that jeffrey epstein is going to be in federal court here in lower manhattan today is the work that you and "the miami herald" did over a long period of time. on the initial charges lodged against him in florida. you are speaking of witnesses. there are more than 80 -- 8-0 -- 80 young women who you spoke to in your initial reporting. it's a shocking number. talk about the degree of difficult did in getting these young women, many of them quite young, to participate in

unveiling, revealing the depth of this depravity. >> well, that was probably the hardest part. i mean, these young -- these women now had felt betrayed. not only by, you know, traumatized by epstein, by his lawyers, by the private investigators that stalked them, but there were prosecutors that they believed would put him behind bars really give him the sentence that he deserved. and they feel that in some -- to some degree they betrayed them. so they certainly were not ready to start talking to me or anybody and keep in mind since this was so long ago a lot of them have moved on with their lives. they have married, they have children and some never told their families that this ever happened. that was a big challenge. i think that in time also though that because some of them have children, especially if they had girls, they felt -- i know virginia for example, virginia roberts felt a duty at some

point to speak out because she didn't want this to happen to other girls. >> julie brown, thank you so much for your reporting and coming up, the acting homeland security secretary says the situation at the southern border is extremely challenging. but he's also denying reports about overcrowding and unsanitary conditions at the border. ro khanna is standing by and he'll join the discussion next on "morning joe." ssion next on "morning joe.

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ask a cbp agent, the secretary can say more money at the broken system, but three agents took me aside and said more money is not going to fix this. they were not trained to separate children, they don't ghent to separate 2-year-olds from their mothers. that's not what trained for and

that's not what they signed up for. they signed up to protect the border, not to put people in cages. they said this is a broken system. when i voted against it, when many of us voted against it, three or four of us voted against it, it was because we knew this was not the choice that we needed our country to move forward on. >> that was congresswoman rashida tlaib defending her decision to vote against a $4.5 billion bill to address the humanitarian crisis at the border. legislation which included almost $3 billion to provide shelter and care for unaccompanied children. she joined alexandria ocasio-cortez and omar in that measure and in a piece entitled it's nancy pelosi's a parade, writer maureen dowd discusses how some of the house liberals have been mad with speaker

pelosi for yielding to republicans and moderate democrats to pass a bill to send more funding to the border, giving up demands for stronger protections for the migrant children being held in shelters there. dowd says she asked pelosi about that internal criticism and she told dowd that she feels the four congress women made themselves irrelevant by voting against our bill which she felt was the strongest one she could get. polo pelosi added, they have their twitter world but they have no following. they're four people, that's how many votes they've got. congresswoman cortez fired back at speaker pelosi on twitter writing, that public whatever is called public sentiment. and wielding the power to shift it is how we actually achieve meaningful change in this country. >> yeah, well, you know, mike barnicle it is called the

people's house for a reason and, you know, democrats pulling their hair out because there's some dissension among different wings of the party. you need to understand that nancy pelosi is doing what she believes is best for the country and these congress women they are representing even though they're only four of them, they're representing not only their constituents but also the views of a lot of democrats across the country. there's always a give and take and that's -- so what is happening here is what happened when i first came to congress, and what happened i'm sure in '75 when the watergate class came to congress. there's -- there are always these sort of changes happening. >> joe, i mean, you served in the house so you know far better than anybody about what the deal is and the deal is this. nancy pelosi is speaker of the house. she has to make decisions, it's called leadership. each of the four congress women, the members of congress that we just indicated who voted against

the proposed bill, the democratic majority's bill are individuals. i'm sure their votes are respected but they don't win their day and their votes were not part of the process that is going to enable money to flow immediately to where the money is needed. a lot of people are upset with the fact that it didn't include stipulations against the trump administration's behavior at the border and we can understand that, but nancy pelosi had a decision to make. she made the decision like other past speakers have made decisions as well. >> so meanwhile, president trump's top immigration official is disputing reports that migrant children have been held in crowded and unsanity conditions at u.s. border patrol stations. acting homeland security secretary kevin mcaleenan called the situation extremely challenging. he was specifically asked about reporting from "the new york times" that claims that the agency's leadership knew for

months that some children had no beds to sleep on, no way to clean themselves and sometimes went hungry. >> the new york times says leadership said they had no way to clean themselves and sometimes went hungry. the own agents had raised the alarm according to the story. >> we have no evidence -- >> do you know anything? >> we have no evidence that children went hungry, first of all. police station cells are not a good place for children. >> had agents raised alarms that you had heard about? >> of course we're worried about it. everyone in the entire chain of command was worried about the situation for children. >> you don't believe "the new york times" report? >> so you're asking -- >> the dirty clothing was so strong it spread to the agent, they had scabies, chickenpox. why did you say unsubstantiated? >> you referenced three, inadequate water, no food, and

unclean cells. none have been subbuated. >> president trump said the failing "new york times" is writing phony and exaggerated accounts of the border detention centers. "the new york times" is standing by the reporting. there have been pictures -- >> you can see it with your eyes. >> you have, jonathan lemire a report that comes out that substantiates the very claims that ig acting secretary -- the general conditions that the acting secretary is denying. >> that's true. and we know that lawyers and who have also been there and validated the conditions, members of congress have gone and said that they saw similar things but this administration is not going to back down. we can call it gaslighting, we can call it whatever you will. but they take their cues from the president. he is saying time and time again that he's trying to blame --

first of all, he's trying to blame the conditions on his predecess predecessor, barack obama, that he created this system and that the administration is doing the best to keep it clean. and for these children. all evidence of course, joe as you know points to the contrary. >> joining us now, a member of the oversight and armed services committee, congressman ro khanna of california and he's cochair of bernie sanders's 2020 campaign. you have an administration that is appearing to deny facts. so how to try and address this problem, help the children especially but the human beings being held in these facilities and reportedly by those who have seen it with their eyes, treated like animals. >> well, it defies common sense what the administration is saying. any american who has watched television has heard the reports. i mean, there are harrowing accounts that read out of a charles dickens' novel. there was a 12-year-old boy who

woke up at 4:00 in the morning complaining of hunger pangs and says that he was too afraid to ask for food. this is a documented account by a lawyer in a court brief. so the administration at this point should just admit that there was wrongdoing. that this is a violation of everything america stands for. and that they're going to do better. but they refuse to acknowledge even how we've created the young people. >> congressman, elise jordan here. i can't believe i'm about to suggest this but are we at the time that an international body like the red cross needs to be called in to examine the conditions on the border? it seems that these are camps of a standard that we would be horribly upset if we saw it in, you know, south sudan or jordan. >> well, i believe the united states congress and the courts need to do our job. i have confidence in american democratic institutions. the challenge is that the congress needs to stand up and

actually impose restrictions saying that the administration can't be moving money around. the appropriations hadn't run out, and moreover, we gave them in $201,940,000,000 more for supplies than they wanted. this is the administration in an unprecedented way not following what congress had required them to do so congress needs to institute more safeguards. >> congressman, it seems to some perhaps many that we are now in a situation where an entire political party, the republican party, seemingly stands mute in the face of the obscenity that's going on along the border and this is the shame of america. so let me ask you in the course of your daily workings in washington, whether you're in the cannon building, rayburn

building, walking over to the floor of the house i'm sure you know republicans and perhaps have friendly relationships with some republicans. do any of them -- i'm not asking you to name names do any of them indicate how shameful they feel this? >> i guess they do. this is something that any american -- certainly most elected officials they are appalled with what's going on. the problem is that they are so blinded by a loyalty to this president, a loyalty to this administration, and an unwillingness to assume any responsibility or mistake that they stick to the administration's party line. but i don't think there's a single member of congress, republican or frankly democrat, who doesn't feel guilt for what's going on. i mean, at the end of the day this is a shameful chapter in history. my kids are going to say, dad, you were in congress, what did you do? i mean, it's shameful for all of us and i think the republicans share that. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you very much.

>> thank you. >> thank you for being on the show this morning. up next, president trump defended his push for a citizenship question on the u.s. census on friday saying that the number of citizens is needed to determine how many seats a state gets in congress. that's not true. we'll explain how he's wrong and update you on where the legal battle now stands as the president searches for a way to get around the supreme court's decision. keep it right here on "morning joe." we call it the mother standard of care. it's how we care for our cancer patients- like job. when he was diagnosed with cancer, his team at ctca created a personalized care plan to treat his cancer and side effects. so job could continue to work and stay strong for his family. this is how we inspire hope. this is how we heal. we love you, daddy. good night. i love you guys. cancer treatment centers of america.

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. if you look at the history of our country, it's almost always been asked. so we're fighting very hard against a system that's a very difficult system but we'll make a decision. the attorney general is working on that. number one, you need it for congress. you need it for congress, the districting. you need it for appropriations. where are the funds going? how many people are there? are they citizens? are they not citizens? you need it for many reasons. >> boy, mika, donald trump is really sweating this one out census. >> or it's hot out. i don't know. something is up there. that was president trump on friday citing his reasons for why eche wants to take executiv action to ensure the citizenship question is on the 2020 census form. nbc's pete williams fact checked

trump's statements and said a portion of congressional seats has always been on the state's entire population, not the number of citizens. now the doj is swapping out lawyers, arguing the case, bringing in an entirely new team of career and political poiap n appointees. joining us is danny cevallos. also with us is the ceo of the radiational fund and national nonprofit organization that promotes the participation of our latinos in civic life and i'll start with you. why is the president trying so hard to get around what the supreme court has decided? what's his intention? >> well, it appears that the intention is political manipulation of the 2020 census. he said it himself, it's about redistricting. it's about how do you deny

latinos and other protected voters in this country the opportunity to have fair representation. you deny it by not counting them in the 2020 census. that seems to be the only purpose right now for trying to include a question that would scare away latinos and their families from participating in the national count next year. >> you know, danny, the supreme court put such a high bar, a high legal bar for the administration to clear that there seems no way forward for them in the supreme court to get that census question, to get that question on the 2020 census. what are your thoughts on the next step for the administration? >> for this administration, the supreme court has essentially said you can have a citizenship question. but for the 2030 census, for everien census after that the supreme court really didn't give the government as a whole and i

mean the government since the dawn of our country, of our nation, didn't really hand them a loss. it handed the trump administration a loss. it essentially said that we can foresee a universe where there is a citizenship question on the census. just not the way you did it. you didn't even make an effort to make a legitimate reason or show your work. so we're sending it back down. the practical effect of this is, is timing. time will run out on the trump administration to handle this, its only census assuming even if there's a two term trump administration they will not get to the next census. make no mistake about it. the court didn't unequivocally give them a loss. >> they at the point the door open but at the same time said because the trump administration proved their bad faith and why they were trying to get this on there, because of their

inconsistent stories that it wasn't going to happen. would it not be difficult no matter what reasoning they come up with in the future for the supreme court to once again hand them a defeat and if, in fact, that's the case then donald trump is talking about moving on to an executive order? an executive order can't undo a supreme court decision? >> you're exactly right. >> what happens then, danny. >> you're exactly right. the supreme court even if the administration comes back and say hey we have a new reason, forget all that other said we said throughout the entire appeal process here's a never before discussed reason to include a citizenship question census. that would be so glaring i can't help that the supreme court would consider it. in ten years another administration may come up with that same reason and it may be acceptable. but going forward should the president try an executive order? in theory he can try it. there's nothing preventing him from writing it and issuing it.

the reality is the supreme court and whatever federal court reviewed it would see an end run around a supreme court precedent. >> the president has the appearance of a fight than the outcome. even if the executive order is defeated he still wants to do that. my question is this, he goes forward with this fight. what kind of impact does this have with latino residents here who are not citizens or others? what sort of chilling effect could this have for them as they seek other government services they may need to get through their daily lives? >> i sit census bureau national advisory committee. my organization is an appointee to that body that has been advising census bureau in developing the 2020 census. the professionals, the career professionals, the scientist, the researchers, they are all scrambling because they are in the middle of trying to cute the federal government's largest

mobilization outside of war in the next six months with a cloucloud of uncertainty. they are spending billions of taxpayers money that's being wasted every single day that we delay knowing exactly what's going to be in the 2020 census. two other clarifications about -- >> go ahead. >> -- one is let's not forget when the constitution was written, african-american slaves were only considered to be three-fifths of a person in census. that was corrected by the 14th amendment that said all persons should be counted. census bureau does count how many citizens are in the country. they do it under the american community survey sway much more accurate survey for collecting that information. >> all right. arturo vargas, thank you. danny cevallos thank you as well. time now for final thoughts. we'll give it to mike barnicle. close out the day, mike.

>> we've just heard an astounding thing. the supreme court makes a ruling. the president of the united states tells his justice department basically, you know, i don't care about the ruling. figure out a way around it. it's unheard of. >> that's where we are. that does it for us this morning. we'll be back tomorrow morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika, thanks joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning we begin with breaking news. charges against by lone narrow jeffrey epstein are expected to be unsealed at any moment after the registered sex offender was arrested over the weekend. sources tells nbc news epstein could face multiple charges in connection with federal sex trafficking allegations. the 66-year-old hedge fund manager allegedly paid girls as young as 14 years old for massages and various sex acts and for recruiting other girls