champions. some good news. if you need to wallow in good news after everything going on in washington, get online and read everything. go back and watch the game, a high watermark so far in 2019. my thanks to betsy woodrough, jeremy bash and kim atkins. that does the for our hour. thank you so much for watching. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" with steve kornacki in for candidahuck todd starts . ♪ if it's monday, it's "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in new york for chuck todd. we've got a jam packed hour with a lot of late developments including the latest on the jeffrey epstein indictment and the fallout from that which has been a spotlight on a whole bunch of his associates including president trump. we've also just had a shake-up in the democratic field as just

moments ago, we saw the first democratic presidential candidate who made the debate stage call the quits. at a press conference this afternoon, the attorney general said the administration will find a way to include that controversial citizenship question on the census. all of that and more. but we begin tonight with the biggest question facing the democratic presidential field. how durable is joe biden's candidacy? well, we're about to find out. a new poll has biden as the only democrat in the race who comfortably beats president trump. he's up ten points in the abc news washington post poll. no one else comes close to that. and if you use that as a metric, then biden's candidacy is looking pretty solid right now. but his candidacy has also clearly been wounded in the last several weeks. his support among democrats in primary polls has been falling since the debate. and the campaign is clearly trying to cauterize those

wounds. he apologized after three weeks of rebuffing, calls to walk back his comments about working with segregationist lawmakers, biden said sorry. >> was i wrong a few weeks ago to somehow give the impression to people that i was praising those men who i successfully opposed time and again? well, yes, i was. and i regret it. and i'm sorry for any of the pain or misconception that i may have caused anybody. [ applause ] >> so here we are at a moment that could very well be a turning point for biden's campaign and for the 2020 field. and joining me now is the biden campaign's deputy campaign manager kate bedingfield. kate, thank you for taking a few minutes. so let's start on this apology. the was june 18th. that was the date of this fundraiser where joe biden talked about james eastland, talked about herman talmudge.

and i don't think i need to remind you there was pretty instent blowback. you had cory booker saying biden owed folks an apology. >> had all sorts of people criticizing him. and he didn't offer an apology for several weeks and only this weekend decided to. why that delay? >> i think there were two takeaways from this weekend. one is that he's somebody who listens and hears. and when he felt like an apology was owed, he had no problem making one. and so he went to south carolina to make that case directly. but then secondly, you know, you also heard him make the strong case that he's not going to take attacks and mischaracterizations and distortions of his record laying down. you know, you heard him make a forceful case for the fact that, look, he has been in public life for many years. and you know what? he's been at the forefront of change. he's been at the forefront of making change in this country. and you're going to hear him talk about that. but he's also for not going to

allow anybody to mischaracterize or take his record out of context. so i think those were the two important takeaways from this weekend. and you heard him make a really strong case directly to voters in south carolina on the things that they care about and, you know, make a case for what kind of president he's going to be and what kind of leadership he's going to show if he's elected. and so that's what you heard from him this weekend. >> i guess the question i'm asking, though, is what changed? because he was also in south carolina i think the was four days after these initial comments. there was the jim clyburne fish fry. al sharpton told him in that interview, he said you've hurt people with these comments. do you understand that? joe biden expressed an interview that he did understand that, but he still wouldn't apologize. so i guess what i'm asking is from the standpoint of feeling an apology was owed, what changed in the last three weeks? >> well, as you say, he did an interview on air with al sharpton that he certainly did

not intend to cause harm. and people have said, look, joe, i know you didn't mean to hurt anybody, but some people are really feeling offended by what you said. he certainly didn't want to let that stand and didn't want to let that be the case. so i think he's somebody who can listen, who can hear. he said, you know, i hear you and i would never want anybody to feel like things that i had said were hurtful. so as he heard from people who he trusts and respects he said, you know what, i can make an apology and so he did. but i think the other thing that's incredibly important about what he said this weekend srtion again, not going to take attacks on his record laying down, and also he's going to make the case for a progressive vision for leadership in this country. and, you know, if you listen to his opponents talk, you would think that the obama/biden administration was, like, prehistoric history. but actually, you know, the was at the forefront of landmark change in this country, the affordable care act, the

recovery act, you know, the repeal of don't ask don't tell, leadership on the world stage on climate stage on tackling the climate crisis with the paris accord. so, you know, you heard the vice president say he was an integral part of that change and i think that's the kind of leadership that you're going to see from him if he's elected. and he's going to make that case directly to voters. the was really well received in south carolina. we had an overnow crowd in charleston. and, you know, we had folks talking about the fact that he was really addressing things that they're concerned about, not things from 40 and 50 years ago but now. what are you going to do for me now? >> i take that point. but, again, he was making an apology here. i want to make sure, get clarity from you i should say, what exactly it is that he's apologizing for here. because to read the exact terminology he used here. he said haeme apologizes for gig the impression for praising those men who i successfully opposed time and again, speaking of these segregationist

senators. although he didn't always oppose him, and that seems to be one of the points of contention. he worked with some of these segregationist when's the came to fighting busing in the 1970s. is that something he's apologizing for, working with them on the issue of busing? >> you heard him say, you know, you work with the world you inherited. joe biden didn't elect the -- of mississippi. the people of mississippi did. given the choice between choosing to do nothing and choosing to act, and over the course of his career he's chosen to act. he took them on repeatedly, fought for an extension of the voting rights act, has fought consistently for federal protections for civil rights in this country. and i think if there is any question about what kind of president he's going to be in the oval office, i think, you know, voters have heard from him directly he's going to be somebody who is on their side, believes, you know, vehemently in the power of the federal government to protect civil rights. that's why he thinks we should

pass the equipment act and why mitch mcconnell should let the bill go forward. what you heard was a willingness to apologize for having conveyed sentiment that he didn't intend to convey, you know, the point of his story was one that you heard him reiterate in south carolina which is sometimes you have to work with people that you find repugnant and you take them on and you fight like the devil and you win. that's the kind of leader he'd be in the oval office too. >> so i'm hearing you say from his apology there, it's giving the impression that he was praising them. he's apologizing for that. and then you're pointing to these instances where he was on the on the other side. does he stand by the instances where he worked with the segregationist senators to fight busing? i say that seems to be the point of contention here. we had kamala harris' press secretary on last week. he said if she had been in the senate in the 1970s on those debates kamala harris would have been on the other side of joe biden. she would have been for busing in the senate.

he was against busing. he teamed up in some notable instances with these segregationists. because he still thinks that he was right when the came to working with those segregationists to fight busing? >> he consistently supported voluntary busing which i believe is the position that senator harris is also putting forward at this point. and he believed and believes to this day that forced busing is not the best method to integrate schools. that's why he's put forward an education plan that tackles root causes on this, including tripling funding for underserved schools across the country and working to finish obama/biden guidance on better integrating schools. and it's why he spent his entire career fighting to address the things that better tackle systemic racism in our society, including, you know, taking on the banks over redlining, taking on the insurance companies to ensure that a house in an african-american neighborhood can't be -- the insurance policy can't be more expensive than a house in a white neighborhood, taking on, you know, the notion that we need to redraw school

districts to ensure that they are more integrated. so, you know, he has consistently throughout his career said that forced busing was not the best way to tackle integration in our schools, but there are significant much more important fundamental ways to do that, and that's something that he has done his entire career. >> you mentioned twice now his political ties as vice president under barack obama and joe biden himself mentioning barack obama several times over the weekend saying he's going to let barack obama notice judgment in choosing him as vice president speak for itself. we haven't heard though from barack obama. i understand he's not making endorsements, he's been very clear in that. but just in speaking up for vice president joe biden's character. >> no, not at all, steve. he has said from the outset that he was not going to endorse in the primary, and the vice president asked him not to. he wants to make the case.

you know, but, again, the vice president's also not going to let anybody tear down the record of the obama/biden administration. and we're seeing attacks on the certainly from president trump. but, you know, there are some in this primary who, you know, who are criticizing the obama/biden administration. vice president believes that president obama was an historic president. and he's not going to let anybody tear down the obama record. and so, you know, i think you heard that clearly from him in south carolina, and i think you'll continue to hear the because, again, some of these landmark achievements that joe biden was able to get done in the white house working closely with the president, with president obama, i should say, have been critically important in making real change in people's lives. so you're absolutely going to continue to hear him make that case. >> all right kate bedingfield from the biden campaign, thanks for taking a few minutes. >> thanks for having me, steve. i appreciate it. and we've got much more on

the state of play in the 2020 race. plus, a multi-millionaire with connections to both president trump and former president clinton, charged with sex trafficking. could powerful politicians be ensnared in the investigation? and as iran moves closer to a nuclear bomb, leaked diplomatic cables show what the british ambassador really thinks of president trump including fears about a war with iran. now president trump is firing back. ♪ limu emu & doug look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ stand up to chronic migraine with botox®.

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the biden campaign about how they hope to turn the page. we've got a lot to talk about. let's bring in some political experts. political reporter at the washington post, zerlina maxwell, former hillary clinton campaign adviser and john. editor at commentary magazine and an nbc contributor. zerlina, the was interesting we didn't get to this interview with kate bedingfield from the biden campaign, but biden himself in an interview a couple days ago talked about basically being caught off guard, he said, on that debate stage when kamala harris chose to bring up busing, chose to bring the up the way she did. i wonder, you see a message emerging, you just heard the there from the biden campaign. does that tell you anything about this campaign about joe biden going forward? the fact that apparently he didn't see that coming? >> well, i think that the shows me two things. one, they need somebody internally in the campaign keeping an eye on what is happening on what's known as black twitter. so black twitter, which is not

just black people who use twitter, but influential black people and social activists who work on social justice and racial justice issues. the busing issue for joe biden had been a topic of discussion for many, many, many months. and the reap why the rose to the level of being the topic in a debate is because kamala harris clearly has people who are keeping an eye on that conversation. so here in the mainstream media, we may not be privy to that conversation that's happening intra -- between black bepeople but also on anita hill and the crime bill. and so that's what i think we saw. i also want to add another thing. the biden campaign wants to only talk about the eight years that he was vice president for barack obama. but barack obama came to become the president in a moment that was very different than the moment we're in right now in

terms of race. we were talking about a post-racial america, steve. that doesn't exist and didn't exist at the time. but yet that was the conversation we were having. so i think joe biden just needs to sort of get a little bit more current with how we are actually talking about race, how we are discussing policy issues that impact communities of color. that way he can say things that will resonate with those constituencies. >> one thing i've been wondering too when you look, john, on the poll at the democratic side. biden seems to have fallen about 6 points on average from predebate to post debate. do you think that was about the specifics of the busing issue, the specifics of some of the issues on stage, or do you think that was folks making a judgment that, hey, he came under attack and he was flat-footed? >> i think we have two theories of the race in the democratic party. i would say the biden theory is a very simple theory which is if i can get those 80,000 voters

who gave the victory to trump in the three states, if i can get them back or replace them or something like that, the electoral college flips, we win, they lose. the more liberal argument in the democratic party is you need to trigger a new coalition or a new old coalition like the 2008 coalition that got obama, record turnout among minorities, progressives, youth, and that way you steamroll trump and you beat him. and the question that democrats are going to have to face, assuming that biden's candidacy remains viable as the only guy in this lane is do you go with this more modest bet, which is that you can get those three states back, or do you go with a bigger play, which is reignite, recreate, and create a new coalition that is large and passionate and durable. that i think is what the next six months are going to be about. >> the coalition will also win

those three states. those things are usually exclusive. 200,000 people, black people in wisconsin, have their vote suppressed. the margin was way short of that, john, and you know that. >> but let's -- >> we have some instead of the 2016 and going back to that, let's look at the new poll that came out today. one of our guest newspapers, washington post" abc poll. on that question of ele electability, watch them up against donald trump in a head to head race. you can see biden leading by ten points over president trump, bernie sanders by a point, harris by two, warren and buttigieg tied. as long as the polls look like this, phillip, does joe biden get to run electability? >> that's the best news joe biden has had in a week and a half. he jumped into this race saying essentially i'm running against

donald trump. i'm the guy who's going to get the nomination and take on trump. and he inherited to some extent, but he also built up this sense that he was the guy whokt beat trump. polls do enforce the. to answer the question you asked john, i think the was the fact that he came out and he looked wobbly was part of the reason why he saw a little bit of slump in the polls. he seemed to have moved past that. if he can maintain those numbers, then that does speak well to his nomination. but is this 2016 strategy of winning back these working-class white voters, is that the strategy that the democrats need to win in 2020? john, again, absolutely correct. that issue is not resolved in the party. one of the fascinating parts of this debate is what the means for senate races as well because there's a lot of senate races where you don't have the same sort of demographic composition that you see nationally. and taking an attack, which is a broadly inclusive one, which could be as zerlina says, something that gives the

presidential candidates the race. >> i just want to put our stock in polls. i mean, i worked for the hillary clinton campaign, so i don't think we can say, well, look, the poll says you're up ten so you will be up ten. you need to earn the votes of voters of color. and you know this, steve, since 1964. so the idea that we're going to build a coalition of those folks that flipped from obama to trump that are not turned off today, those voters are not coming back to the democratic party. you are much better off tailoring your message to those voters who did not show up in 2016 who did in fact show up in 2018, and the three states, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan, all statewide, democrats won in 2018 with a different message. >> i think that there is really bad news in that poll for democrats because, yes, biden's up ten, all of that over trump. trump's at 48% with registered

voters. >> his approval rating. >> approval rating is 47%. that's around where obama was in 2011 at this time. that's an incredibly good number. >> it's the highest he's had in that poll. >> and if he has -- if he has climbed five or six or seven points out of his hole over the last three weeks while a lot of this fighting has been going on when the democrats, that's a real warning flag for 2020 for democrats against trump. >> there are two numbers floating around. there's a 44% number, this is with all adults. and 47% with all registered voters. i guess my question, is psychologically, and we'll have other poll comes the coming days. but if that's replicated elsewhere, does that change the psychology of the democratic party if the assessment is maybe

trump's not going to be, maybe he's going to be a little -- because the looks like one of the reasons he's doing better in this poll is he is getting more credit for the economy. does that change the psychology of the democratic electorate? >> the democratic electorate psychology changes on the drop of a dime. but i think that if, yes, donald trump looks stronger more generally, again, yes, the point there that biden is the only one that has any space that, should be alarming to democrats at this point in time. i think the also undercuts the idea that biden will be able to win those voters back. granted the idea is that he's going to go into pennsylvania and be rewooed by vb. if -- joe biden. this is what the study showed was in the times last year, 4.4 million people who voted for barack obama in 2008 didn't vote in 2016. >> remember that margin in 2016 for donald trump.

77,000 votes spread across those three critical states there. that's what made the difference in the electical college. you are all sticking around. and new charges against jeffrey epstein or spotlighting the old charges against him in what some say was a sweetheart deal with the man who was president trump's labor secretary. that's next. oh! oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults

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the conscience. while the charged conduct is from a number of years ago, it is still profoundly important to the many alleged victims now young women. they deserve their day in court. >> welcome back. wealthy and well-connected. hedgefund manager jeffrey epstein is behind bars right now. he is charged with sex trafficking and accused of sploiting a vast number underaged vicks for sex. he pleaded not guilty which could put him in prison for the rest of his life if convicted. at least from 2002 until 2005, epstein sought out girls as youj as age 14 paying them hundreds of dollars for sex acts at his homes in manhattan and palm beach, florida. he pleaded in guilty to state charges of soliciting and procuring a minor for prostitution, avoiding serious federal charges. that plea deal which has been

widely criticized as too lenient was negotiated by alex acosta. that was the u.s. attorney in miami at the time and is also now president trump's labor secretary. with me now is tom winter, nbc news investigations correspondent and glenn, former federal prosecutor and current msnbc legal analyst. tom, let me just start with you. if you could just sort out exactly what happened because you've got this piece here of 2008, a nonprosecution agreement with the feds, state charges in florida, now federal prosecutors in new york picking up. are they prosecuting him now for anything that was investigateds a decade ago or are these completely different instances that they've picked up on? >> good question, steve. so the appears that in fact some of the things that they are looking into and some of the things that may be tied up into this are in fact things that were investigated back in 2008. we actually have to rewind the clock back a little bit further. we have to look back to 2005.

as a matter of fact, march 15th, 2005 when the palm beach police department formerly opened their investigation into jeffrey epstein and they were ready to go in 2006 bring forth charges. they had talked to five victims -- excuse me, 17 witnesses. they had compiled physical evidence, they conducted a search warrant. so they were ready to move forward with the case. a lot of the things that they discovered in their investigation, the same types of pattern, the practice, the idea of paying these women for, quote, unquote massages. they would turn them increasingly into sexual encounters according to the investigation back then in 2005-2006. then from there some of those victims would then become recruiters for even more victims. so that's the same type of pattern or behavior that we saw brought forth in today's indictment. 2002 through 2005. so a lot of what we saw back then came forward today there was an ongoing federal criminal

investigation of course in the mid-2000s that was part of that. and the u.s. attorney's office if you read the nonprosecution agreement, nbc news has a copy that far grate. it's very -- agreement. that the u.s. attorney's office could've brought against jeffrey epstein. so the fact that they would have had a case, the fact that there would have been a federal case or a possible indictment to be brought to bear is not surprising at all. we know from court filings that in fact there was a 53 page draft against epstein. the difference is that the nonprosecution agreement, that that nonprosecution agreement was only for the southern district of florida. think the palm beach area. think the miami area. the did not apply to new york. and since jeffrey epstein has a mansion here in new york, prosecutors call the that, it's a big home on the upper east side. and because some of the activity that occurred involving both the girls as well as arranging some of these interactions with

jeffrey epstein, which would turn illegal and which would turn, you know, sexually abusive. that those interactions were coordinated from here. that's why you see today the nexus to new york and the prosecution. >> and, glenn, we mentioned that epstein is well connected. he's not a public official, not an elected official, not somebody in a government position, but we are told today that it's the public corruption unit that is handling this. am i reading -- would that be a standard practice in a case like this? or is there some significance to that potentially? you know, it's hard to ignore that, steve. the does seem like we have to read something into that because ordinarily if there are sex offenses, sex trafficking crimes, that's going to be handled by the southern district new york unit, not the public corruption unit. when you look back at how epstein really escaped responsibility by and large for the crimes he committed when

then u.s. attorney now labor secretary acosta, sort of gave him this unprecedented, in my experience, pitch, of a nonprosecution agreement when as tom just said, there was a 53-page indictment, federal indictment waiting for him. it's hard to see how that kind of favoritism that is done for someone who is rich and influential and connected doesn't raise the specter at least of public corruption. so, the makes perfect sense put twog and two together that the southern district of new york public corruptions section is the one taking lead on this prosecution. >> and, tom, you went through the whole history of this, the had been sort of out in the open years ago. so why now, why all these years later did federal prosecutors decide we're going to take another look at this? >> well, i think it's important to note that today's indictment and the arrest of jeffrey epstein over the weekend on

saturday was not something that just came up in the past several weeks. as a matter of fact we know now from the public docket that's been unsealed this afternoon that federal prosecutors first filed this indictment under seal on july 2nd. so they have been anticipating jeffrey epstein's arrival in the united states and the ability to take him into custody for at least, almost a week at this point or at least five business days. so that's our understanding of what's happened here. and they talked about in court today they took covert, they used the word "covert" measures that make sure that this investigation did not leak out into the public. there were no public statements, there were no media reports about this investigation because they felt they needed to make sure jeffrey epstein wasn't tipped off to this. as far as what initially trigged this investigation, but the was some of the investigative reporting that's been done about jeffrey epstein, and i think we can point primarily to the miami herald in julie brown's

reporting that led us to today's events. basically that reporting came out of the state prosecution files, which make the very clear exactly what was going on back in the mid-2000s. >> and, glenn, quickly, we mentioned the labor secretary, alex acosta's name coming up here obviously because he was part of that. he was key in that nonprosecution agreement 11 years ago. this came up a little bit in his confirmation hearing. we don't have any comment from the administration right now. what do you expect in terms of his role as this plays out in the public square? >> well, the department of justice office of professional responsibility has already opened an investigation to how then u.s. attorney acosta handled this. and i have to say it's pretty stunning that a federal judge back in february found in the civil litigation that some of these victims brought that then u.s. attorney acosta actually violated the law. he violated the rights that the victims have under the crime victims rights akt to be

notified of any disposition in the case and to be heard. so i don't think we've heard the last of the possible exposure that acosta might have for the way he handled this case back in 2008. >> all right, glenn kirshner and tom winter, thank you to both of you. and coming up, president trump is determined to get that controversial citizenship question on next year's census. how far is he along to go? you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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we've been considering all the options, and i've been in constant discussions with the president ever since the supreme court decision came down. and i think over the next day or two, you'll see what approach we're taking. i think it does provide a pathway for getting the question on the census. >> welcome back. the trump administration is not backing down on its goal of adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census.

phillip, zerlina, and john are back with us. it looked a week or so ago that the administration was content to let this pass. then the president weighed in on twitter. and now this is something they are pushing forward with. and you heard the attorney general right there. besides the element of trump can't back down, apparently won't back down on just about anything, it seems, is there a win here for the administration? what would a tangible win look like on this? >> i don't really know. clearly, whoever it was who announced that they were going to prince the census without the question didn't clear it through the highest channels. like, i think this is clearly an administration divided on this question that the people in the commerce department are saying we got to get this thing printed, we have no -- we're just going to do it without it. and then it's like no, this is a big thing for us. i think there is a constitutional question here which is probably where barr and

the justice department are going to go which is for some reason the administration allowed itself to get sidetracked, defending the question on, you know, moral terms or whatever, and the only real defense for this is that the courts have no jurisdiction over this that this is a constitutional authority of the president. the president is in control of the census, and that's it, and if he wants the question on there, and the question was on there for 150 years, he can have the question on there. that's why apparently they fired the justice department team that has been handling this for a couple of years i assume because they chose this, quite baffling strategy, that john roberts took apart in his decision by saying clearly they are disingenuous about the reasons they are offering. they're just going to say we have the constitutional authority to put whatever we want to in the census. >> and that is what the supreme court has said. come back with a different

argument, maybe you'll have better luck. one of the elements has just been the clock ticking. practically speaking, what is your expectation at this point? do you think this will be on the census form next year? >> i don't know. because this is playing out day-to-day, and there is new developments that actually change what i would think. i don't know if it's going to be on the census, but i think the american people should pay attention to whether or not it ends up on the census because i don't think that we necessarily talk about the census enough. we talk about it every ten years, and we say it's very important. but i don't think people understand how it makes -- how it determines how much money goes into your community depending upon how many people are there, and also the history of the census historically undercounted, underserved and communities of color. we don't want to do that in the year 2020. we want to make sure that as america's demographics are shifting to a browner america, that we are making sure to count all of those people accurately so that the resources are

apportioned fairly. i think that most americans can agree that that's a fair position as a citizen. so i think, i can't say whether or not it's going to be on the census. but i think that we should care whether or not this question is on the census. >> that's the other question. folks, whether they're on the left or on the right, folks who are very engaged politically, whether they're activists or just people who follow this very closely, they have very strong views on this question, i found. there was some polling i was looking at over the weekend that suggested when you step back and you just sort of look at the general electorate, the passions may not be that sort of instinctively strong on this. and it may be one of those issues where people instinctively look at it and say what's wrong with that? in terms of the politics, how do you think it cuts? >> i think you are exactly right. there are a slough of policies which president trump has advanced or advocated which are sort of the fox news policies. he watches a lot of fox news in the white house. he spent a lot of time watching

fox news beforehand. so he picked up a lot of short-hand political arguments that are populistic in the census that people will say i agree with that, it makes sense, which, if you dig into it a little further, there will be questions and qualms. but as zerlina points out and as a lot of experts have pointed out that can actually lead to an undercount in the census because people are more loathed to respond to the questions. that affects a lot of things and a lot of numbers. so there is a nuance to it that isn't necessarily captured in the poll questions which essentially asked whether or not this should be included. that plays to trump's strength, until which point he is dealing with people who understand the nuance to it which i think is what happened at the supreme court as well. >> the weirdness of this, think about the task here, the task is assigned to the government by the constitution. is that every ten years there be a counting of every head in the

united states. when the united states had seven million people, that was one thing. it has 330 million people now. it is an enormous challenge. we want to use it to get all the demographic data about where we are as a country and this is the only time we can have it. >> and you complicate it i think needlessly by making it a political football. like, that's a terrible thing because we need to have faith in the sensus. >> okay october that note, john, zer lynna, fhphilip, thank you r being with us. and now the president is pushing back. son, you can't. your heart's not strong enough. my heart is as strong as any. ♪ ...you have to let me go. uncover the lost chapters

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only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ let me be clear. iran should not confuse american restraint with a lack of american resolve. [ applause ] >> welcome back. that was vice-president mike pence today just hours after the united nations atomic agency confirmed iran is now in breach of the 2015 nuclear deal and is now moving closer to being able to produce anatomic bomb. teheran is sending signals it doesn't want to toss out the deal but today gave european leaders 60 days to provide economic relief from u.s. sanctions or face a future that involves a nuclear-armed iran. let's bring in msnbc diplomacy expert and former u.n. ambassador chris hill. thanks, sir, for joining us.

let me ask you about that. iran today, we get confirmation i think they're enriching uranium i think at 4.5% rate. but what they're saying is 60 days from now that's going to jump to 20%. what is it exactly they're trying to get out of europe here? >> well, you know, while the u.s. tries to bully iran, iran tries to bully the european allies and they're trying to get the european allies to separate from the u.s. on this. and it's kind of tough with the oil prices being denominated in dollars or oil settlements being done in dollars. so i think it's going to be difficult absent a broader settlement. but they're clearly just moving slightly over the line, figuring that no one is going to bomb them over that. but they're indicating, look, americans, if you're going to pull out of this thing and then expect us to stay in it, you know, think again. >> so what happens? like you say, right now they're just stepping slightly over the line. but if this next threat that's included in this development

today to go from 4.5% to 20%, 60 days basically two months from now, if they cross that line, what happens then? what would the u.s. do then? what should the u.s. do then? >> well, the problem is when you get to some 20%, it's very easy technically to get to 90%, which is what weapons-grade enriched uranium is. so at that point i don't see the u.s. or, frankly, the european allies just standing by and saying, well, you know, the iranians have a point here. so i think there needs to be some diplomacy in the meantime and some way to get them to step back from this while perhaps we could look to, to allow the europeans wavers. the problem is you have john bolton who simply wants a war, and i think the president needs to decide what he wants to do about this because it's tough to go with any middle ground, except perhaps to get some indication from the iranians that they'll talk about regional issues and then in return the

u.s. extends waivers a little longer. the president's advisors have painted him into a corner and if i were the president, i'd be pretty furious with the fact that they've given him no good options in this whole affair. >> right. because if i'm understanding the scenario you're painting here, in terms of the relief that iran may be seeking from europe, you're suggesting that may not be likely, but that the administration may not be in position to make the kind of move you think is necessary here, either. and then meanwhile, we're two months away from iran, at least according to what this is' threatening now, crossing a major threshold. >> it's a major threshold. i do want to say they are not close to making a bomb. they would need at least another year to do that. i mean, that's a fairly long time in diplomatic terms. but i think the u.s. needs to take a hard look at this because if they get to that 20% threshold, essentially they've

gone a lot further than they've gone in the past. and i think the president has a tough argument to make that he's made our country safer as a result of pulling out of the agreement that president obama signed. so i think they better get moving on this. and if i were the president, i'd be calling in pompeo and bolton and saying, thank you very much. i want some more options, and you're going so stay after school and give me some. >> let me ask you quickly with these diplomatic cables that came out over the weekend, these british diplomatic cables. you have the british ambassador to the united states ton these cables with pretty damning characterization of the trump administration, inept, chaotic, all sorts of other words to that effect. now you have the president this afternoon on twitter firing back, basically saying, you know, not going to be dealing with this ambassador any more. what is your sense of what's going on behind the scenes over there in britain? >> i suspect this ambassador, like many ambassadors in

washington, has certain views on this administration. regrettably for him he put them in writing. i suspect with a new prime minister coming in, probably a new foreign minister, new everything, the ambassador has a fairly short shelf life in washington right now. perhaps made shorter by this. but i think it goes to show that it's not just the american diplomatic core that has these things happen. they happen elsewhere. and i think he's going to have a really tough time staying on in washington, and i'm not sure he wants to at this point. >> i mean, quickly, is it common -- you know this world. is it common for an ambassador to be that frank -- and that frank i say in sort of a damning assessment way, in communications like this? >> i think you should do it on the telephone and you should not commit things to writing and send them in to -- in the case of the brits, sending this in to the foreign office and then

expecting everyone to say, well, it's classified, therefore it won't leak. it's just too juicy for people. and if he really wrote it that way and sent it in that way, well, that's what happens. so you should keep those comments to yourself or to the telephone and make sure no one is recording it. >> all right, ambassador chris hill, thank you. >> thank you. >> and we'll be right back. nk yu >> and we' blle right back ♪ sport drumming starts

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and that is arnold palm's a. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press" daily. the beat starts now with ari melber. >> good evening. thank you so much. we have a lot in tonight's show including this little nugget. attorney general bill barr just came out and publicly knocked bob mueller's upcoming testimony. we have a special report tonight with some clues on what bob mueller will do when he faces congress next week. we have reporting in there that i can tell you you won't see anywhere else later tonight. at this point it's an increasingly bizarre battle within and inside the trump administration over how to deal with the census after that supreme court rebuke. and a reversal over the holidays if you haven't heard about that yet. so we have a lot, but we begin with the substantive crisis that continues to consume the trump administration. this is one that involves facts mattering. new reporting on appalling conditions from the facility in clint, texas, which has humanitarians concernednd