with us. have a good weekend and good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. >> happy to have you with us tonight. honestly, there are a whole bunch of developing news stories we are following tonight on what of course is a very busy friday because that's what fridays are always like now. for some reason. just within the last hour or so, we are getting in images from protests around the country that are being held under the banner of lights for liberty. these are protests organized over the last week or so they are apparently more than 700 of these protests and vigils happening simultaneously right now. many of them outside border patrol and i.c.e. facilities these protests and vigils are against the trump administration's treatment of

immigrants, especially following the several weeks that we have had of raw and disturbing accounts of the conditions in which the trump administration is holding people, including little kids being kept apart from their families. we expect one of these lights for liberty protests to get under way in the next hour in yuma, arizona, outside this yuma border patrol station. we have been reporting on this station since nbc news obtained a bunch of significant incident reports describing alleged abuse of kids being held apart from the border patrol station. they announced an investigation had been opened into one claim that nbc obtained from a 15-year-old girl, claiming she had been sexually assaulted by a uniformed officer at the border patrol station as far as we can tell from the paperwork that nbc obtained, that girl's claim that she was sexually assaulted

although she formally came forward and made that report to a federal case manager, as far as we can tell from th written material obtained by nbc news, that girl's allegation was not investigated by any agency until nbc news obtained that report and started asking the federal government questions one of these lights for liberty protests is scheduled for the yuma border patrol facility tonight. he approximate there are hundreds of these happening tonight around the country late tonight we got a searing pool report. you know how pool reporting works in terms of the presidential and vice presidential visits. official visitors by the government a pool reporter will be assigned from the press pool that's covering it to essentially be the reporter of record when all the reporters can't go at once on the visit or on the event. that's being described the pool report we got tonight that is making such waves and going viral and changing the

conversation a little bit tonight comes from the border station in mcallen, texas. mike pence was in mcallen, texas. and the pool reporter assigned to be traveling with the vice president, in this case was josh dawsey from "the washington post." he was accompanying the vice president. he was assigned the responsibility to be the pool reporter, writing up what happened and what th vice president does and saw. this is the pool reporter that josh just filed. after negotiating with the vice president's office, pool was taken into an outdoor portal at the mcallen border station around 5:00 p.m. where almost 400 men were in caged fences with no cots the stench was horrendous. the cages were so crowded that it would have been impossible for all of the men to lie on the concrete there were 384 single men who allegedly crossed border illegally. there were no mats or pillows. some of the men were sleeping on concrete when the men saw the press arrive, they began shouting and

wanted to tell us they have been in there 40 days or longer the men said they were hungry and wanted to brush their teeth. it was sweltering hot. agents were guarding the cages wearing face masks we were pulled out of the portal within 90 seconds and they said the secret service expressed opposition t the vice president going in. the vice president briefly went into the room. pence said later at a news conference, quote, i was not surprised by what i saw. i knew we would see a system that was overcrowded it should be noted that crowding is not an organic phenomenon the reason the 400 men are crowded into that cage is because that's how the trump administration is holding them conditions of confinement are the responsibility of the entity confining people by force, right? this is what the trump administration is doing on purpose. presumably the reason they sent the vice president there to see with a pool reporter is because they like what they're doing there. they want you to know this is

what they are doing to people. because presumably, they think this helps them politically, to be seen to be treating immigrants this way. like animals in pens lamented for their smell and how unwashed they are. when they're not being allowed to wash themselves and they're being held in outdoor portals with nothing to lie down on and no way to clean themselves for 40 days at a stretch. the trump administration inarguably has created this scenario and i maintaining it because they think it works for them politically. now they are showing it off. today the house oversight committee released a report summarizing the information that committee has been able to obtain about the treatment and mistreatment specifically of kids taken away from their parents by the trump administration and that report include individual accounts of boys and girls as young as four

months old who've been taken away from their parents by the trump administration we linked to this report if you want to check it out for yourself among other things, the oversight committee breaks out the story of these individual kids as best as they have been able to trace it there is privacy concerns so they don't name the kids, but they tell their specific stories. for example, a boy they describe as child two an eight-month-old boy from honduras who was taken away from his father at the border the father was then moved to multiple facilities away from his 8-month-old son, including other states and the father was ultimately deported without his baby son the report concludes at the time of his release, the baby spent nearly half of his life without his parents in the custody of the trump administration it is unclear whether the child and father have been reunited. part of the report by the oversight committee.

there was an oversight hearing today in which congressman jerry connolly of virginia could not contain himself in response to the testimony that committee received about conditions on the border and what the various government inspectors who were testifying to the committee would say abou whether or not anything would get better >> you can talk all you want about whether the poor border control is overwhelmed that makes no excuse for how we are treating children. if there is one basic value that outing toite us as republicans and democrats, as americans. it is how we treat children! their children, our children it doesn't matter! that's a fundamental value i sat here and listened to horror stories i thought it would fix it! i thought it was a novel reading from charles dickens the conditions that prevailed 19th century london.

children without soap. children in filth. conditions that none of us would every could want nance with our own children any child in our care is our children.ntenance with our own children any child in our care is our children the equivocation, the enabling, the rationalization is inexcusable! is there no limit to what you will justify in this administration >> democratic congressman jerry connolly at an oversight hearing today about the conditions i which immigrants and specifically kids are being held by the trump administration. that hearing, this visit by the vice president to the mcallen border station, this terrifying new report from the oversight committee, these protests that we're watching unfold tonight around the country, this is all happening, this is all royaling and happening med th backdrop of expectations that

the trump administration may launch these new nationwide raids to round up immigrant families starting this weekend the president pounded his chest about that when talking to reporters at the white house and bragged that the raids will be starting on sunday this is the way he wants to run for reelection he wants to be seen to be rounding up immigrants by the millions amid reports that the raids will be targeted to big american cities, including new york, atlanta, chicago, philadelphia, baltimore, los angeles, san francisco, and others there have already been protests in several cities against the anticipated raids. the mayors in many of those cities directed local police to not cooperate with federal agents if they try to carry out the raids. mayors in the cities told ice they will not be allowed access to databases to carry out the raids. as we reported last night, the trump administration originally announce new orleans would be one of the ten cities they would prioritize in these raids they

were planning for this weekend they quickly walked that back once they presumably checked the weather in new orleans as of tonight, tropical storm barry is due to be a hurricane by the time it's expected to make landfall on the gulf coast tomorrow depending on the exact track of how barry moves north out of the gulf, new orleans could be looking at crippling, even catastrophic flooding as a result of this storm, depending on how it plays out. this is one of the main things people will be watching overnight and through this weekend. as the tropical storm heads towards hurricane-force winds, it's expected the winds themselves will not necessarily be the biggest problem, but th rainfall which could be epic and it will be arriving at a time when the mississippi river is swollen with flood waters. when new orleans is already experiencing street flooding i mentioned there's a lot of developing stories tonight that we are watching tonight and we're going to be watching they may overnight and into the weekend. we are already having a lot of news already, but a lot of stuff

happening tonight in the news is stuff that is both happening now and expected to develop over 24 to 48 hours and could become more serious over the next day or two or three. this is going to be one of those news-sbec news-intensive weekends, i'm sorry to say one of the things is a newly announced delay in the testimony of robert s. mueller who was expect to testify to the judiciary committee and intelligence committee weapons of next week just last hour, the chairman of the judiciary and the intelligence committee announced they are postponing mueller's testimony by a week. robert mueller will not testify next wednesday, july 17th, but will now testify on july 24th. so the following wednesday as part of that fwremt to delay his testimony, the two committees say they will get more time to question the special counsel in public session. although it remains vague and murky as to what the longer

questioning time for mueller has to do with him getting a one-week delay before he testifies, why are those things related? i don't know we will be talking about that this hour, including the related question of whether or not mueller's prosecutors and the people working on mueller's team will be testifying alongside mueller or not we previously thought mueller would testify in open session and some of his team embers, the prosecutors working for him would thereafter testify in closed session with those committees that appears to now also be in flux we'll have more coming up on that later on this hour. there's one other story you may not have on your radar in terms of things that may develop soon. this was first broken by ax i don't see today and confirmed by nbc news it did get a pick up once it broke, but i'm highlighting this right here, right now, because i think this is one of those stories that might end up being a much bigger deal when it fully develops

it might develop quickly so it's worth seeing it coming what axios and nbc news report is that president trump may be taking initial steps towards firing the director of national intelligence, dan coates now, dan coats, the dni is one of the peopl in the president's cabinet that regularly and only complains about all the time but the tlurs of this new reporting abou dan coates potentially being fired is that the white house is basically floating a trial balloon about who they might want to replace him if in fact trump fires him. according to axios and nbc news today, trump wants for his new director of national intelligence, this guy seriously, he wants the author of the book "obamabomb" to be the new director according to today's reports.

his name is fred fleitz. it's okay if you don't remember that name. he did briefly make headlines when trump's newest national security adviser, john bolton tried to bring him on to the national security council for about five minutes the freakout in national security circles was palpable. and it gave rise to lured stories about mr. fleitz but now, it was one thing had to put guy in a staff job working for john bolton, even if it was a staff job on the national security council,s which is an important thing. that caused enough of a freak out, but if the reports are correct that trump is going to now try to put him in the senate-confirmable position of director of national intelligence that's going to be -- hilarious is not the right word, but this is going to be something if they try to do this i mean, this is a guy who if they try to make him dni and

fire dan coates, he would have to be brought into the trump cabinet to be director of national intelligence from the job he has now the job he has now is he works as the senior vice president for policy and programs at a think tank that think tank that he runs is the leading proponent of the crack pot theory that the u.s. government is secretly being run by the muslim brotherhood which infiltrated the highest ranks of american government. and we just don't know it. he argued we need a house un-american activists committee. except this time we won't be rootin out pinkos and commies this time it needs to root out the secret muslims operating inside the u.s. government do you believe that? holding government jobs while also being muslim. that must obviously be stopped

this is also a group i should mention that said the oklahoma city bombing was not the work of timothy mcveigh. don't believe what you heard obviously that was a muslim who did that it was like saddam hussein or some other muslim. we are not sure, but it was definitely a muslim and not timothy mcveigh that blew up the federal building in oklahoma city that's his think tank. he also made a name for himself on the fox news channel by going on tv an saying that the intelligence community assessment that russia interfered in the election in 2016, that was, in his words, rigged. he is not saying that russia tried to rig the election. no, he said when the intelligence community assessed that russia was trying to intervene in the election, that assessment was rigged. because the intelligence community is rigged because russia was not doing nothing now according to ax i don't see and nbc news, trump wants to

make him director of national intelligence and he wants to fire dan coats in order to make room for him these are initial reports, but given the way turnover works at the highest levels of the trump administration, including the cabinet, this could blossom forth at any moment. it is worth keeping an eye on that possibility before it happens because it would be an amazing thing for them to try. that would just be a good test of whether or not the u.s. senate lives and breathes if they were confronted with an ask to confirm somebody like that to a job like that. as i said, in the trump cabinet, there's always room to move. we started out naively about this time about two years ago. when we thought on this show, ha ha, it would be simple, it would be helpful for our viewers if we could simple show our viewers a list, a simple

list of top-level abrupt departures from the trump administration start off naive and innocent this was the summer of 2017. we will make a list. within a few months, it started to become apparent that the stack of names and titles might be intimidating. the font is kind of small there, so we switched to pictures but that ended up looking like a triple bingo cards you get at a high level church hall bingo like one of the newbie first-timers can't keep up because everybody is playing trip em bingo and nobody can go that fast. we went back to list format. eventually we stopped trying to make them all in one column and we tried moving the camera back to keep the two columns, but columns could get taller and you could see more of them eventually we had to pull the camera back far enough that you could, like, see my jeans under the desk because we were pulling it back so far then we ultimately tried three columns instead of two, but we

had to make the font so small, people thought we were kidding and those couldn't be really names and job titles trying to make it big enough to read while keeping all the relevant names and titles of all the people departing the trump administration, we went to a whole wall of the studio literally, they put in a big monitor that was the size of a wall we thought, now we bought ourselves enough "real housewives." that might work. turns out that taxed the system and we had blackouts from time to time. oops eventually we tried wrapping around to the other wall but that ended up being sort of folly technical lies, sos we gave that up too i am not the only person who tried to track this stuff. this was a good faith effort people are trying to allow people to visualize the magnitude of turnover in the trump administration earlier today on msnbc, this was a valiant effort picking the top tier departures and organizing them by year

this was a good effort i still think it looks like 17 different days that got merged into the same notes document cnn started doing an artful one where they make everybody look like a star. it's like hollywood squares. instead of 3 x 3, it's a row of 15 with tom price in the middle. and little sparks shooting out of the bottom of john kelly there. woo! it's hard to trackers no matter how much time and effort you spend trying to visually organize the information, it's too much to get your head around even if you just talk about people who had their cabinet level jobs or other super senior jobs, tom price, ryan zinke, rex tillerson. john kelly, mathis mathis, kirstjen nielsen, linden mcmahon. secretary guy, patrick shanahan. they were almost secretaries

like andy puzder that was separate and apart from the national security advisers trump has gone through and all the communications directors he's gone through. and all of the other senior white house staff he has gone through in various sandals and blowouts so today when alex acosta became the -- what is it, 11th, 12th, 13th trump cabinet official to resign in disgrace or scandal or extravagant vulgar melodramatic conflict with the president? when alex acosta resigned today, he was following a well-trod path just his job, remember alex acosta only got the job in the first place after trump's first pick for the job, that guy, was derailed by the emergence of the videotape of his wife in a disguise on the oprah show talking about being battered by her husband. i mean, the worst thing that

has ever happened involving an non-imprisoned cabinet or would be cabinet official in any presidency would rank by 12th or 13th in terms of potency in the trump cabinet. but the scandal that took alex acosta's job today is one that is not over. his role in securing a lenient non-prosecution agreement for the wealthy and well-connected pedophile, jeffrey epstein, was public knowledge and might have popped in the vetting before trump ever appointed him to a cabinet position in the first place. but that role of alex acosta in signing the non-prosecution agreement for jeffrey epstein apparently only became too much of an embarrassment for the trump administration when epstein ended up back in court, this week, this time in new york tonight federal prosecutors in new york told the court in a surprise filing that epstein

shouldn't receive bail and should be held in custody until his trial until he goes on trial in these new sex trafficking charges. he should be kept in custody and not let out because he has been tampering with witnesses and he wired hundreds of thousands of dollars to two of his alleged coconspirators in a way that prosecutors say suggests he might have been trying to tamper with them as witnesses and keep them from testifying against him. he allegedly sent that $350,000 immediately after the "miami herald" published the bombshell investigative reporting that the basically broke the epstein case back open and that resulted in these new charges and resulted in th labor secretary today becoming the nth official to lose his job in scandal the investigative reporter who did that work and set all of this in motion is our guest, next when the hot sun hits your ice cream lick fast like a cookie dough ninja. apply that same speed to the

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america's best lte with the most wifi hotspots, combined for the first time. when you're near an xfinity hotspot, you're connected to wifi, saving on data. when you're not, you pay for data by the gig. use a little, pay a little. use a lot, just switch to unlimited. get $400 back when you buy the new lg g8. call, visit or click today. the "miami herald" published a series called "perversion of justice. that investigative reporting at the "miami herald" changed the

in that series, reporter julie kay brown talked about the efforts to get justice by multiple child abuse victims of jeffrey epstein after a lenient non-prosecution deal he got from then u.s. attorney, alex acosta in florida since those were published, a lot of things have happened. like this week, a new arrest of jeffrey epstein who faces up to 45 years in prison on sex trafficking charges. the u.s. attorney in new york announcing the charges took time to credit some incredible investigative reporting in helping his office track down epstein and bring these new charges. when he said that, he was talking about the reporting of julie kay brown. after the pressure became too much even for the trump administration on this issue, the u.s. attorney who had given epstein his non-prosecution deal years ago in florida, today he resigned as trump's u.s. secretary of labor that inexplicable deal that

acosta gave him back in the day was not enough to keep trump from putting him in the cabinet in the first place but the pressure because of epstein's case and scandal resulted in acosta losing his job. tonight we got a new explosive allegation from new york epstein according to prosecutors in new york that after "the miami herald" series was published late last year, epstein, according to prosecutors, wired hundreds of thousands of dollars o to his alleged coconspirators, and prosecutors sa could be attempts at witness tampering. the prosecutors have notified the court of their belief that those payments could constitute witness tampering to prevent the new york judge overseeing the case from freeing him on bail as he awaits trial. joining us is julie kay brown, "miami herald" investigative reporter who broke the story open and changed a lot of lives in the process. ms. brown, nice to have you back >> thank you >> let me ask you first of all, your reaction to this latest

news federal prosecutors are saying just two days after you published your series, he was wiring hundreds of thousands of dollars to two potential accomplices. what do you make of what prosecutors are intimating in this filing? >> prosecutors have a lot more information than we know about i think that factored into the decision of mr. acosta to step down because i think there is a lot more information that's going to come out. it sounds as though they have been building a case for quite a while. if they've known about this wiring of money in the aftermath of my series, they probably have other information and possibly even cooperating witnesses or cooperating people fro epstein's camp who are going to reveal a lot more damning information. >> in terms of what prosecutors

alleged to the court tonight, among the documents they filed seem to be records from florida and not from new york that indicated that epstein was sort of looked at very seriously for potentially having intimidated witnesses and tried to tamper with witnesses around the time that florida was considering how to adjudicate the claims when acosta was the u.s. attorney do you know if witness tampering or obstruction of justice were considered against epstein in 2007 and 2008 when he was facing the charges? >> yes they were not only considered, but there was a couple of draft plea agreements that were done early on in the case where they were going to charge him with witness tampering. that was one of the things they considered as a result, in part, some of the victims who were as we know teenagers were followed and their families were followed and

one woman reported that her father was run off the road. this was happening in florida in 2007 when they were investigating this you know, he tried to intimidate a lot of people, including the police, including prosecutors. he dug up dirt on everybody he could. this is part and parcel of his method of operation. to wield his power and influence in order to scare people from cooperating and from going forward with prosecutions. >> because of that record and so much of it we know because of what you have been able to document about how his case was handled in florida, because that was record i'm struck by what you said earlier that there may be new cooperating witnesses who may be able to work with prosecutors and police and the fbi in terms of building the case and prosecuting the new charges against epstein. that's obviously been a real point of contention and how he

escaped a measure of justice all this way is that there haven't been people who've been willing to cooperate with prosecutors against him. do you think that might be changing now >> well, if these people -- he didn't do this alleged trafficking operation all by himself. he had a whole crew of people helping him, schedulers and recruiters and pilots and drivers. so, you know, it's always been a question of why acosta and the fbi back then didn't try to get some of these people to cooperate. you know, they did all lawyer up and epstein paid for some of their lawyers, but at some point you would think they would have been able to do that now i think what new york is trying to do is revealing new evidence that is focused with -- in new york there's going to be a fight with epstein with the non-prosecution agreement in florida and

anything he did in florida can't be prosecuted. so new york prosecutors are likely trying to get information on his crimes, possible crime that he did in new york. >> julie, i have to ask you one last question while i have you here i talked to you about this story over the months as you were breaking this. i really do think it's changed the world. right now it's changing national politics, too. how do you feel in the middle of all of this having done all of this work and made all of this contact with his alleged victims who were chasing this on their own for so long. and how it feels to have the impact it's having now after all the work you put into it >> you know, i always say that the real heros in this story are the victims that were willing to come out they were very scared to talk. this is a man that has a lot of power and it happened a long time ago these women moved on with their lives.

for them to share their stories with me was just an incredible honor and you know, i'm happy for them they contacted me frequently and they are just shocked that it has really made a difference and that something might be done for justice that they have been fighting for for so long. >> "miami herald's" julie kay brown. that got a lot of demands on your time. thank you very much for helping us understand. >> thanks. >> a lot more to get this this very busy friday night stay with us hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem...

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about it >> is it still ongoing >> house judiciary committee chairman jerry nadle besieged by reporters this is afternoon amid reports that robert mueller's testimony that had been scheduled for wednesday of next week either had been postponed or might be or was in a state of limbo we have an answer. nadler and adam schiff announcing that mueller's testimony has indeed been pushed back a week.

instead of having it the 17th, it will happen the 24th, a week from wednesday in a statement, the two chairmen said we are pleased to announce that special counsel mueller will provide additional public testimony when he appears before your committees what they mean by additional is that mueller had originally been scheduled to testify for two hours in front of each committee. now it's three hours in front of each committee, not two. why is there any connection between the whole thing getting delayed a week and the committees getting an extra hour with mueller no idea, but that's what's happening. i should also note that certain questions about the testimony really remain totally unanswered including whether mueller's deputies are going to be testifying as well we've beentold by adam schiff on the air that mueller's staffers would be speaking in closed session after mueller himself testified in the open to the committee we were then told by nadler that

mueller staffers would also be speaking in closed session with his committee too. now maybe those closed sessions with mueller's prosecutors, those are off maybe? the "wall street journal" since reported the names of which two mueller deputies might be testifying before the committees and amid what is reported to be pressure from the justice department that those two senior members of mueller's tea should not be talking at all, there was a new report in "the washington post" this afternoon that testimony by mueller's deputies may now be canceled completely from what we are able to report, trust it as far as you can throw it, what we understand is that the issue of the testimony of mueller's staffers hasn't been canceled, but remains in flux. it's not a settled matter. that's as much as we can figure out from our own sources like i said, clear as mud. why is this so hard? again, big headline, robert mueller's testimony not next wednesday the 17th

it will be a week later, but he will testify for an additional hour okay more ahead stay with us t my job." t my job." that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today.

there was some what appeared to be bad news for the trump white house today as a federal appeals court for the first time waded into the efforts for the democratic controlled house to get stuff from an about the president by subpoena. there have been all these subpoenas and nothing in response to the subpoenas. today it went to a federal appeals court for the first time today's fight was over financial records related to the president held by his accounting firm, mazars these are the records the house subpoenaed after the president's longtime lawyer, michael cohen testified under oath those records might show evidence of the president committing bank and insurance fraud. the house heard that from michael cohen, subpoenaed the records from mazars. it did then sued mazars to keep them from complying with that subpoena

a federal judge ruled that the subpoena was valid and they needed to hand over the records to congress. the president appealed and that brought us to today. the u.s. circuit court of appeals in d.c. where we got to hear, not read, but hear president trump's new personal lawyer, william cons voy making his case that they shouldn't hand over the records. the argument itself turned out to be astonishing, because the case the lawyer is making to the d.c. circuit court of appeals is that congress can't get the subpoena or these materials because they have no power to oversee the president they have no power to access any information that would allow them to oversee the behavior of the president. you can hear the incredulousness in the judge's voice in response to them making this argument i mean it literally, you can actually hear it we have the tape of it and that's next. stay with us

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the first voice you will hear is one of the federal judges on the d.c. circuit court of appeals the second voice you will hear is the president's new personal lawyer what you are going to hear is the judge questioning the president's lawyer today in court, basically asking the president's lawyer, are you seriously arguing what i think you are arguing? >> i'm sorry, i'm trying to

understand your argument is your argument that the committee on oversight has not been given any power of oversight as to the office of the president? that's one, or is it that they not be given subpoena power? >> the former, i apologize >> they can't ask questions, they can't look? >> the answer is yes congress can do no oversight it's good to have the tape or you wouldn't get to hear that the judge laughs in the middle of her restating this argument to the president's lawyer. they never put judge laughs in

the transcript, but you can clearly hear her laugh in the middle in this case today over whether the president's accounting firm has to hand over the records in response to a subpoena from congress, it seems like the president's lawyer is arguing that congress can't get those records because congress is not allowed to oversee anything that relates to a president even if hypothetically the president is super, super corrupt, congress can't oversee. here's the same judge again. >> i understand that sounds extreme. that was today in the appeals court in d.c joining us to discuss the oral

arguments unless hear hearing is senior legal affairs contributor at politico. josh, thanks for being here. >> sure, rachel. good to see you. >> it's good to be able to hear it happen instead of me reading it and trying to get the inflection right from the transcript. i feel like we get more color in terms of the tone from sitting in the courtroom it seems like from your reporting at politico, you had the impression that these arguments didn't go well for the white house and did go well for congress >> it was about an hour or hour and 15 minutes straight that the trump attorney was being grilled by at least two of the judges on the panel. judge david taylor was the other democratic appointee on the panel who said well, what laws could congress abide the -- apply to the president? he said maybe his records a little bit he pointed out all presidents file financial disclosure forms.

sural that disclosure is constitutional, and he was having none of it, saying, no, he wouldn't agree that was constitutional i think at that point he basically lost at least two thirds of the panel. he began to wonder if the arguments were not being teed up for the supreme court. i didn't think it was a winning case it was too much of a maximum malist federalist society-type position to fly at the d.c. circuit. >> in terms of teeing it up and taking that maximalist position, is that something that is aimed correctly at the supreme court is there reasonable belief among the president's lawyers that this supreme court is constitute and might like this argument and might not read it as incredulously as the two judges on the panel did >> it's definitely a possibility given the makeup of the supreme court at the moment. it will probably ride as it has in the last year or two on chief justice john roberts

the fundamental tension in the trump administration argument is they have been going to courts like the separate and saying when w do something controversial, don't look behind the curtain at all. look at what we say publicly as our reason for doing this. now they take the flip side when it comes to congress and they say congress said they are doing it for legislative reasons and we want you to pull the curtain back and they're just doing it because nancy pelosi says she would like to see the president in jail. i think it's going to be difficult to move from those arguments on a trump-related case to the arguments they made previously in other disputes probably even in the supreme court they may have difficulty getting traction with that >> josh, on the substance of this, atlas subpoena to mazars and similar subpoena that was given to deutsche bank to try to get banking records from the president and both of those subpoenas the president brought lawsuits to block the institutions from complying with them

in the lower courts where the president lost both times, there was a lot of discussion about the need for speed here. about how congress wanted to move with some alacrity and didn't want unnecessary delay. in terms of the substance and whether or not congress will get these records, what time frame do you envision this being resolved >> i think it's possible that couldn't that this could be resolved within a matter of months now i think the appeals court panels made it clear they want to move expeditiously on this. we could see decisions in a matter of weeks. there's still other processes they could play out like trying to go to the full bench with the appeals court. the president can't force them to do that there is always a chance because it's a highly politicized dispute that maybe the supreme court decide they don't want to get into it, particularly if it hits them over the summertime while most of the justices are out of town.

i think atlas chance that they might decide they're not really interested in delving into this dispute in great depth >> in which case it wouldn't g above the level it is now. if the supreme court decides not review it. >> that's right. >> josh, i didn't mean to step on you there >> that's okay. >> thank you for joining us. i appreciate your reporting at politico.com >> anytime, rachel take care. >> appreciate you being here we'll be right back, stay with us beep goes off ]

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overnight tonight we will be watching tropical storm barry churning in the gulf right now and heading for louisiana. the national weather service predicting the storm will make landfall over the central louisiana coast early tomorrow morning as a cat one hurricane they expect it to weaken, but rain is the biggest threat forecasters say the storm will sit over that already water logged region for days once again, the country is praying for new orleans and competence in the disaster response if the worst comes to pass we don't know what the next 24 hours will bring, but we will be monitoring the storm all weekend. that does it for now see you again on monday. ali is in for lawrence tonight good evening >> we will pick up a very busy friday evening as you described the way they all are these days. have a great weekend >> thanks, my friend >> the stench was horrendous i how vice president