>> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm jo ling kent. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 a.m. out west. here's what's happening. blackout. a blast and a plunge. parts of new york city into darkness for hours. the sights, the sounds, the cause and then this moment. >> whoa! >> it just happened. the lights came on behind you. also, tropical storm barry flooding fears for thousands in its path and the worst may be on the horizon. the latest on barry's track and its aftermath. i.c.e. raids expected today across the country in nine

different cities as thousands are hitting streets in protest. details next. new this morning rng the lights are now back on in times square, but it was a very different picture just hours ago. a historic power outage crippling the heart of manhattan affecting 73,000 customers for more than three hours along a 30-block stretch. the towering electronic screens and the bright lights on broadway there turning black before 7:00 p.m. eastern. theatergoers pouring out on to the streets. the traffic lights were out, causing chaos on the roads. you can see good samaritans stepping in to help direct traffic. the city subway lines were brought to a near halt with drivers navigating through the dark. shutting down even a jennifer lopez concert at madison square garden. broadway performers bringing the shows to the streets. the cast from come from away, one of several giving an

impromptu performance outside their theater. kendis gibson captured what happened shortly before 11:00 p.m. eastern. >> speaking of the people in manhattan, kendis, i know you were there when there was natural light outside. >> whoa! >> the lights just came on behind you. back to kendis. look at that. that looks like the final grid they were working to restore. is the marquee lit up? >> kendis, do you -- >> reporter: it's back on. the marquee is back on. >> love that big smile on kendis gibson's face. we've got msnbc, chris pollone live in new york city. chris, what was the root cause of this? >> reporter: jo ling, that's the billion kilowatt question here on the west side of manhattan this morning. no specific answers other than an equipment failure. as you can see, the lights are back on on the west side of manhattan. it was a normal saturday night

by all accounts before this area was plunged into darkness. it happened just before 7:00 at night as you mentioned. a huge stretch of the west side of manhattan affecting 73,000 customers. now, that may not sound like an impressive number. but those are individual buildings. you're talking hundreds of thousands of people in new york city plunged into darkness, broadway shows had to close down. there were no streetlights, no stoplights. so regular citizens were jumping into direct traffic. the nypd sent 250 police officers to the area. people had to be taken off of subway trains. imagine that. no air conditioning, no lights. you have to get off a subway train. no elevators, no escalators, so people were evacuated. the good news is local officials say there were no injuries or deaths from this somewhat unprecedented power outage that lasted for five hours. the last of the power finally coming back on just before midnight here. now, officials say that they are

investigating the cause. it was some sort of equipment failure here on the west side of manhattan. but it could take hours or days for engineers to figure out what the books exactly what happened. >> chris, i wonder with con edison saying it was a technical and mechanical issue, what does that mean in terms of preparedness. are other cities really ready for a sustained blackout that goes beyond a few hours? >> reporter: you know, the governor of new york, andrew cuomo, called it unacceptable that this would happen. he said that he is going to launch a full investigation from the state agency that stays on top of public utilities. because he said this is, frankly, unacceptable. there should be redundancies in the system that when an equipment failure happens, it shouldn't knock out six individual neighborhoods for a period of five hours. now, the mayor of new york, bill de blasio, was campaigning for president in iowa. he was on his way back late last night, was supposed to be back

this morning. he had mentioned that it took five hours, but the power is back on. you know, certainly a vulnerability, not as widespread as some power outages like back in 2003 or 1977. incidentally, the 42nd anniversary yesterday of just a weird fact that it happened on the great new york city blackout of 1977. lot worse outcome then than now, jo ling. >> chris pollone, surviving the blackout in new york city. thanks for joining us. now to the latest on tropical storm barry. strong winds and heavy rains ripping through the gulf coast states. downgraded now, the storms blew off rooftops packing winds of 45 miles per hour. the threat of a dangerous storm surge and flash flooding remains. barry is now expected to dump 18 to 15 inches of rain over mississippi and louisiana. increasing the risk of overtopping levees like this one near lake grove. it's a risk that some residents were willing to take to find the

mandatory evacuation orders. >> we elected to stay and we know there was a possibility of losing all our utilities. >> i have four dogs and one cat, which is very hard to leave. >> trees and power lines were down in new orleans. the city spared, though, from taking a direct hit. additional cause for celebration on the streets of the big easy. let's bring in meteorologist bill karins. good morning, bill. what's the latest on the storm? >> the latest is that overnight we did not get the tremendous achlts of rainfall we were afraid of. so far so good. we're not concerned with the wind today. they're down to 45 miles per hour. so we're not going to see any more wind damage. we're not concerned with storm surge. it was 3 to 6 feet. now it's 1 to 3 in the coastal area. the only concerns with the storm is the water. that's with the rain out of the clouds. if you notice the radar here, yesterday we were so concerned with the baton rouge area.

all of our computers were pinpointing baton rouge with the possibility of 15, 20 inches of rain. what happened is, see the jog the storm took. barry is much closer to the texas/louisiana border than it was supposed to be. that has taken the heavy band of rain that was going to be narrow and it shifted it towards lafayette, louisiana. if there's one city i'm concerned with and the surrounding areas, it's laugh yechlt you can see the heavy band of rain off the coast and centered over the top of lafayette. that's the area of greatest concern and we have a high risk of flash flooding. doesn't mean we can't have flooding in the baton rouge area. but your totals have definitely come down. as far as where the storm heads, it's becoming a tropical depression later on today and shift to areas of arkansas. it will be completely dead and we won't track it anymore by the time to monday night and tuesday morning. it will have dissipated by then. this takes us to the rainfall

forecast. flash flood watches from southern illinois, southward, the entire state of mississippi down through much of louisiana. we have one flash flood warning for jackson, mississippi, right now where they've had heavy rain overnight. i thought this map would have a ton of flash flood warnings, especially the area of central louisiana. thankfully, it didn't set up that way last night. here's how it's going to play out throughout our sunday. throughout the morning, the storm will drift northward. here's the heavy band of rain, there's lafayette. throughout this aeffternoon and evening, that heavy band is over that same area. we get training and they could get 5 to 10 inches of rain. isolated totals towards 15 inches and then the heavy rain threat goes northward to arkansas. through monday morning, heading to work, heavy rain from little rock to greenville, mississippi, back down still into southern louisiana. that's why we're still not completely done with our threat. by the time we get to monday evening, the rains start lighten

up a little bit, especially in southern portions of missouri. the rainfall forecast, the heaviest totals will be further to the south. widespread 5 to 10. a chance of isolated 15 to 20 inches. so far so good. we're not done yet. >> bill karins staying on top of it for us. thank you so much. joining us from plaque mans parish is mariana atencio. it looks like new orleans escaped a direct hit like bill was saying. what have you experienced there? >> reporter: jo, a lot of people breathing a sigh of relief this morning because the worst of the forecast with the tropical storm did not materialize yesterday. that doesn't mean all areas went unscathed. in the southeastern part of louisiana, i've been reporting from plaque men's parish.

they were breached because of the storm surge and the flooding. that's why you see this behind me this morning. sandbagging efforts that started late yesterday evening into this morning. i spoke with a lieutenant in the national guard who tells me those big sandbags will be airlifted around 8:00 a.m. local time to try to patch together these levees. as you and bill have been discussing, the rain is still ongoing. some areas might get 4 to 6, maybe even 10 inches. so they want to put that together as quickly as possible. i've been speaking to local authorities, jo, who tell me that the reinforcement, the investment in levees that was made in new orleans after hurricane katrina, that simply didn't happen in all areas here in the south. there were temporary levees here that did not hold. a lot of people really demanding a permanent solution. not only for barry, but for future storms in the coming years. that being said, a lot of

cleanup expected today. the sheriff told me yesterday plainly, it's a mess. in new orleans, trying to resume operations today. >> marian a atencio in plaquemines parish. thank you. the i.c.e. raids, how this plays into the re-election bid. n walk to end alzheimer's, we carry flowers that signify why we want to end the disease. and we walk so that one day, there will be a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor. join the fight at alz.org/walk. ...or trips to mars. $4.95. delivery drones or the latest phones. $4.95. no matter what you trade, at fidelity it's just $4.95 per online u.s. equity trade. no matter what you trade, at fidelity i swibecause they let metual, customize my insurance. and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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and it's over the road. >> tropical storm barry moves inland over louisiana. water rapidly overrunning some of the streets there while the storm is downgraded to a category 1 hurricane, thousands are still threatened and facing mandatory evacuation. the strong winds and heavy rainfall took down some large trees there and power lines, knocking out electricity for thousands of residents in the region. wind speeds clocked in at nearly 65 miles per hour. authorities now say 400 people in southern louisiana evacuated after water overtopped levees. life-threatening flash flooding is expected in lower mississippi by tonight. we'll have the latest from bill karins in a few minutes. now to politics and all new today. mass arrests of undocumented family members are set to begin with growing outrage from democrats and immigration rights activists. the target, at least 2,000 people with deportation orders.

but those who happen to be nearby could also be detained. a new reporting today on attempted i.c.e. raids yesterday here in new york. the "wall street journal" expanding on what the mayor first posted on twitter saying a person tells i.c.e. agents went to homes in harlem -- they were rejected because they didn't have warrants. but plan to return to sunset park tomorrow, which is today. undocumented families across the country are facing questions, who would take care of children if their parents are deported? is it risky? >> should parents go to work or head to the grocery store, would they make it back home without getting detained? what happens if they have a medical emergency? are they safe to go to church today? if detained, could they each afford a lawyer? activities mobilized to remind undocumented immigrants of their

rights, including agents needing a search warrant to enter a home and do not lie to law enforcement. remember, there is the right to remain silent. yesterday, my colleague alex witt spoke with democratic congressman from texas. >> the president and his minions are referring to collateral. collateral means when a mother who is here with american children is torn apart from them and they're placed in foster care, that's the policy the administration is pursuing. >> we've also got new kpes questions today on why the president is publicizing the raids in such a way which happened quietly in other administrations, including obama administration. hans nichols is at the white house. hans, what do you know about this? >> reporter: the white house has been largely silent about the scope and size of the raids and whether or not they should be considered raids. what the president said on friday is this is a law enforcement action. now, the president put the

number at the thousands, not the millions. there's been a market shift from the white house in how they're talking about this round and what happened two, three weeks ago where the white house was clearly telegraphing that they were going to do this. the president pulled back and said it was part of a deal with congress. now, they have gotten additional money thor foes detention centers all across the border there. the question is here, what's the white house's reaction going to be? are they going to celebrate this or tout this? are they going to try to couch this simply as a law enforcement action to ensure that america's borders are secure, all part of what the president wants to run and base his re-election campaign on? jo. >> jonathan allen, national political reporter with nbc news. john -- with business insider. on the point hans nichols was making jonathan, what's behind the publicity and this attention to the raids? we saw a reversal a couple of

weeks ago. is this a play for re-election? >> it's not deterrence to coming here. if you're talking about deporting people who have deportation orders against them, they've been in the country for a long time. this is not something that's going to prevent people from coming to the country. what's going on here is that the administration wants to make a show of force. the reason for making a show of force, the obvious reason for making a show of force is for the president to demonstrate to voters who care about illegal immigration for voters who are upset he doesn't have a wall built, for voters upset that there are camps on the border who have not been returned to home countries yet to demonstrate that he's doing something. i suspect that you will see pictures of these raids, video of the raids perhaps and certainly news reports of these raids make their way into the campaign. >> john, you've been talking to immigration lawyers and experts about these i.c.e. raids. what are you hearing right now? >> similar things to what jonathan just said.

this is all a big show for trump's base and that this is about spreading fear in the immigrant community. it's not about deterrence at all. this is 100% about trump perhaps feeling insecure about the fact that he hasn't been able to deliver on his border wall and the migrant crisis has gotten worse during his tenure despite the fact that he promised to make the situation better in his 2016 campaign. we're talking about the immigration policy and the 2020 election. it's been front and center. a man deported under the obama administration has asked the former vice president, joe biden to apologize for the -- here's biden's response. >> i will not a pol jois for deportation. i will apologize for the deportations if in fact they're

engaged in a -- >> john, do you think any of the top 2020 contenders will answer that question differently, or is biden trying to get to that moderate independent base with that answer? >> excuse me. sorry. he's jonathan. >> john halt wanger, please. >> same name. >> i think that this is another example here where biden's record is going to come under attack. he's a much longer record in washington than i lot of people running. the fact of the matter, nearly 3 million people were deported under the obama administration, far more than under trump. trump is not on track to deport as many as obama. we're going to continue to see biden get hammered on this from progressive groups and others along the campaign trail. >> jonathan, what do you think? >> you never know what other democratic candidates will say. biden, of course, has a record

here as john notes and has to defend it. i suspect that most of the democratic candidates, certainly the ones that seriously hope to compete for the presidency would take the position that violent criminals who have received deportation orders would be deported. i don't think there are very many people that would support the idea that people here illegally, then committed violent crimes and been convicted of those crimes should be loud to stay in the united states. >> so after the vice president pence, after he toured the detention centers this week in texas, he tried to defend the conditions that he saw. congressional democrats, being, touring some of those facilities themselves. political reporting that the fight among democrats over that border funding could intensify if congress considers a funding bill, dhs, homeland security department. john, how are you expecting the dems and progressive democrats to face that upcoming negotiation? >> i think that's the big elephant in the room here. we're seeing a lot of infighting

among democrats, even this weekend with the house democratic caucuses' official twitter going after the chief of staff. this all links to the fight over border funding and what many of the more left wing members of the caucus feel was pelosi caving to republicans last month on the emergency aid package. i think this is going to continue to divide democrats and it's going to be a contentious battle. >> i'm going to hit on the revelations from leaked diplomatic cables. the daily mail is report thag the british ambassador to the u.s. wrote that president trump abandoned their armed nuclear deal to, quote, spite barack obama. nbc news has not confirmed that report. john, there has to be other forces that influenced his decision. do you think his attitude towards obama is a factor? >> i mean the revelation, potential revelation, because we haven't confirmed it, that spite

factored into donald trump's decision-making on pulling out of the iran deal wouldn't be exactly the most shocking news that we've ever heard. i mean, the president did campaign essentially on the idea that barack obama made terrible deals. we know that the president disliked president obama personally. we know that he was angry at him dating back to at least 2011 for president obama's treatment of him in the white house correspondent's dinner. pretty much everything out of donald trump's mouth about president obama is spiteful. if that were a -- if the ambassador interpreted it that way, it wouldn't be a surprise. >> is the president putting politics over foreign policy? >> that's one of the big critiques to pull out of the jcpoa or the iran nuclear deal. the international community, key u.s. allies, all nuclear experts all said it was a terrible idea.

it essentially was an optics thing. i want to undo everything that barack obama did, each if it's good for the world. now, recent tensions between the u.s. and iran sparking fears of war, the situation in the gulf is escalating. many of the experts i've spoken to all point to the moment that trump pulled the u.s. from the iran nuclear deal. >> interesting stuff. jonathan allen, john halt waninger, thank you both so much. weakened but still a big threat. a new check on tropical storm barry as it slowly moves along the gulf coast. ♪ sport drumming starts [ referee whistle sounds ] [ cheering ] when you need the fuel to be your nephew's number one fan.

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millions of gulf coast residents are still under threat of dangerous flash flood and winds as louisiana and mississippi can now expect 8 to 15 inches of rain thanks to tropical storm barry. the storm forced more mandatory evacuations as bodies of water are rapidly overrunning into the streets of louisiana and workers are struggling to contain those levees. >> coming in over the levees in a couple of spots. we got crews down there to try to stop

hopefully, hopefully that works. the wind blowing from the south and we've been working around the clock. the most we can do is flood fight. we can keep the water out in the sections of the levees, thaen we'll have done our job. >> there's states of emergency in louisiana and mississippi. the long lasting downpours expected to affect more than 3 million people this weekend, including residents in alabama. while a storm surge is hitting louisiana, in mississippi, it's flooding, already leaving people and alligators stranded. you can see that there. meteorologist bill karins here. what are we expecting here? flood fight is the word on the street. >> we're waiting to see where it sets up, the heavy banding. the biggest thing overnight is that this storm barry shifted further west -- when i woke up this morning, barry was almost in texas. i had to do a double take, it was supposed to be over the top

of alexandria. this shift of 50 to 75 miles to the west has big implications. we were sfofocused on areas to right. if it was over alexandria, that band was supposed to be set up over the top of the baton rouge area. instead, now it's set up over the top of lafayette, louisiana. so in baton rouge, your forecast has definitely improved. not out of the woods, still under a flash flood watch and a chance of very heavy rain today. but the odds of getting that 10 to 20 inches of rain is now from lafayette down to the coastal areas. a lot of this region is kind of swampy and unpopulated. very rural. the number of people at risk has been lowered too. we have very heavy rain up through mississippi. we have a couple areas under -- a threat of isolated tornadoes. there's one tornado warning out there right now. we'll continue to see how it plays out. as far as the forecast path, what's left of the storm, we're not concerned with the winds

anymore. the winds are down weak enough that we don't expect additional damage. the storm surge, so far all the pictures we've shown you of the water that was high, that was from storm surge yesterday. that storm surge was 3 to 6 feet. one location i heard hit 7 feet. that's down by at least half. so now they're saying storm surge, one to three feet during the day as the winds continue from the south. wee haven't shown you dramatic pictures of rainfall flooding. that comes next. here's an interesting graph. the tropical cyclones, storms or hurricanes, doesn't matter what they are, the speed that they move depends on how much flooding we get. if we can get the 20 inches of rainfall, you know, the storm system would have to be going less than 15 miles per hour. a storm going 10 miles per hour can produce up to 25 inches of rain. this storm right now is moving at 8 miles per hour. that's why we have a potential

up to 20 inches, maybe higher in isolated cases. that's what we're going to watch to see how it plays out today. here's the current radar. you can see the looping beams here. the heaviest range from lafayette to the coast. then we had this one band from new orleans northwards, slidell towards hatitiesburg and that's the area we have two distinct bands of very heavy rainfall. as far as the risk goes, this map tells us who has the best chance of flash flooding. the moderate risk in areas of red, south of memphis and then much of the state of mississippi back to new orleans. it's this pink area with the high risk of flash flooding. that's where there's a good chance of life-threatening flash flooding in areas back to lafayette, lake charles, cameron, parish, rainfall rates of 2 to 3 inches. slow-moving storms are of great concern because of epic amounts of rain. we'll see how that plays out

today. yesterday that high risk was over baton rouge to new orleans. that shift of the storm westward has changed the forecast. bill karins, thank you. it's one of president trump's favorite subjects, the economy. a closer look at who is benefiting, who is being left behind and how that could impact 2020.

we're getting new insight into one of president trump's favorite lines. touting the health of the economy despite not all

americans making gains. here's a reminder of how he's been framing it. >> we're so good, we're doing so well, the economy, the stock market just hit the highest point yesterday. >> we're the best economy in the world. and it's something -- it started from election day. >> after years of stagnation, wages are rising fast. they're also rising most quickly for the lowest income americans. here's another one. african-americans, hispanic americans, asian americans, unemployment reached the lowest levels in the history of our country. how do you lose that in a debate? >> but in a new op-ed in "the new york times" by former counselor to the obama administration's treasury secretary, he's looking at who trump's economy is leaving behind. among them, african-americans whose weekly earnings have been falling relative to white

americans. this graph you can see shows the slide since 2002 which worsened during the trump administration. joining me now is progressive commentator and radio talk show host ned richie and ned ryan, ceo of american majority and former speech writer for president george w. bush. ned, how do you explain the losses among african-americans? is president trump glossing over the reality here? >> jo, the trends are headed in the right direction. are they as good as they could be, probably not. the hispanic community, obviously unemployment at record lows under 5%. it's a good thing for the hispanic community. i think it's one of those things where you're seeing some of the trends in the right place. the african-americans, are they keeping up with the white trends? probably not. could they? hopefully so. the fact of the matters is, if democrats try to tubing down the economy as a winning strategy, that's not going to work. most americans, when it comes time to vote, we'll ask ourselves, are we better off now

than four years ago? a lot of americans will say, i got a job, my wages are up, i feel good about life, i have optimism. again, incumbent presidents running on a strong economy don't lose and if the economy continues with the numbers overall, i don't see trump losing. >> rashad, president trump points to low unemployment numbers for african-americans as opposed to the wages we've been talking about. how does that play in 2020? >> president trump has been masterful at coordinating an economic con. using propaganda through his strategic media push. here's the truth of the numbers. back in 2018, americans paid $93 billion more in taxes than they paid in 2017. even though president trump said that they would receive this massive tax cut that never happened. ironically, businesses paid $91

billion less than they paid in 2017 under the tax code of president trump. that is a shift, a tax shift, not a tax cut. let's look at the actual unemployment rate. they use what's called a u-3 rating system. that rating system simply means this. if you work one hour for one week in that one survey month, you are considered employed. a u-6 rating system has the unemployment ratio closer to 8% than the 3 or 4% it's teetering at now. let's be clear. african-americans are left out of the conversation because they're losing economic and income power by the minute under this administration because they failed or they have failed to actually address the root cause of discrimination in the workplace as well as income equality in the workplace as well. >> ned, what's your response? >> my response is this. the economic numbers, trump's economy and his policies are

colorblind. he doesn't care the gender or the race, rising tides lifts all ship. you are seeing trends move in the right direction. record unemployment among african american, record unemployment amongst hispanics, record unemployment for everyone. as you see the trends continue, everybody knows this. we know this. all of us listening right now know if the economic numbers continue, again, the american people are going to look at him and say we're going to vote him back into office. i would remind you historical trends are this. only five incumbents have lost in -- they're up against economic trends -- really what, are the responses that the democrats have offered running for 2020 and what are their proposals to better the economy? >> let's look at more of the numbers, ned. i want to show you two other americans of the op-ed. hourly earnings for auto workers which were higher in 2003. they've barely moved,

essentially a flat line there. also from the manufacturing sector. another look at the divide in earnings between parts of rural and urban america. you can see the lower line is the decrease in earnings in mississippi, while they're up here in new york city. could this translate to weaker support for president trump, ned? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, obviously when you get to the red states, obviously immigration will play a role. there will be other issues that will get the trump base out and we know immigration will be a huge issue in 2020. when you talk about manufacturing jobs, i would say in 2018, 284,000 manufacturing jobs were added, the best numbers in 20 years on that front. we have new manufacturing jobs in those places. you look at production wages, they're up 11%. you'll say these numbers and i'll come back to these numbers. there will be other issues when

they come to the polls. >> i want to show you what jim messina had to say. here's what he said on "morning joe" on friday. >> he's an incumbent president who, if he did anything to reach out to swing voters sitting with a 70% approval rating of the economy currently, should be in okay shape. he's got a better economy and such better situation than barack obama did in 2012, that george bush did. >> so do you agree with that, rashad? >> yes, i do agree. but president trump is not going to reach out to swing voters. if you look at the actual numbers, what you see is a president who has been given credit at least to a point of over 50% as it relates to the current economy. but he is still over 50% in disapproval ratings. that's unheard of in the presidency. his numbers on the economy should match his numbers in the approval rating, but it is not. why? because he has failed to create a message that actually connects to moderate america and swing

voters. until he figures out how to do that, which i don't think he will, until he figures that out, he could be the first president in the history of our modern era who has a strong economy attributed to him but loses the election based on his approval. >> ned, what do you think about that. despite the fact that a lot of analysts are looking and saying maybe we are facing a recession, why is this the case given the high approval ratings? >> listen, the fact of the matter is, people will vote for somebody they don't like if the economic numbers are good. i would say dismiss that when it comes time for 2020 if the economy continues this way. even if they look at some of trump's tweets or his style, they're going to look at the substance and decide on substance when it comes time to vote. i will say this. one of the things i would love to see trump do again, work on the messaging and talk to some of the swing voters. at the end of the day, jo, there

will be a base election. there's always a base election. if he can get the people fired up in the right states, it comes down to ten states. how is trump going to do in the ten swing states that decide the election. you look at the recent polls, democrats are writing off florida and ohio and saying wisconsin will be a battleground, maybe the deciding state. i would say look the at ten states, how is he messaging and polling there. i think he's doing pretty well there. >> rashad, can democrats actually overcome this strong economy that works in favor of trump if they start winning over swing voters? >> well, it seems as if they are based on the current polling data. if you look at the ten states that ned is talking about, joe biden has a significant lead in those states outside of the margin of error. he's the only democratic candidate that enjoys the outside of the margin victory in a polling scenario. going back to the actual economy, this economy is not working for everybody.

all right? 3.2% gdp growth. that's great and moving in the rye direction. trump inherited a recovering economy. president obama inherited a mess. the federal reserve says our gdp growth should be closer to 4% to meet the cost of living an the economic growth of the country. he's not up to par with what the federal reserve says he should be. >> all right. rashad richie, ned rye yun, a spirited debate as always. >> thanks, jo. the high cost of paying with plastic. why your credit card is weakening your buying power, next. r, next get away who used expedia to book the vacation rental that led to the ride ♪ which took them to the place where they discovered that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up. ♪ flights, hotels, cars,

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visit xarelto.com. in power, politics and paychecks, the government spending like never before. a record of more than $3.3 trillion over the first three quarters of the fiscal year. that added $747 billion to the national debt. so, today the national debt clock is nearing a record $22.5 trillion. and the stock market opens tomorrow, and it will be riding a record run. the dow, s&p 500 and nasdaq closing at all-time highs on friday amid anticipations of a

cut in interest rates by the federal reserve. so speaking of money, every time you swipe your credit card, you could be spending a lot more than you realize. the average annual percentage rate is at a record high of about 18%! that means you could be spending 18% more when you use a credit card instead of cash. joining me to discuss this is sibile marcellus, a reporter for yahoo! finance. good morning. >> good morning, jo. >> so, amazon prime day is coming up, right? >> that's right. >> and you've got discounts coming out from target, walmart, ebay. but if you're shopping for the best price, you might lose that discount because you're spending on a credit card. is that because you're carrying a balance? >> this is what's happening. people are sticking to their minimum monthly payment, which means they're carrying debt month to month and that means they're paying 18% more on everything. so, think about it. amazon prime day is coming. people are shopping for the best discounts on products, such as soap or airline discounts, airline tickets. well, what's happening is they're still paying 18% more because credit card rates are at

an all-time high. apr, the average annual percentage rate, is at a record high of 17.8%. so people who are buying all this stuff with borrowed money are going to feel the pain in their wallets eventually. >> we also see data from creditcards.com, reporting that households with credit card debt are outspending those without it when it comes to voluntary costs, and 18% of households are unwilling to cut back on things like takeout and travel and all the fun stuff. so, is this the case of old habits dying hard? >> yeah, absolutely! i mean, it's really concerning, because when you mention there the creditcards.com poll, we're talking about nonessential items that people are using their credit card to buy. and these are things that they don't really need, so spending $2,000 a year on takeout, another $1,000 on subscription services, another $1,000 on extra shoes and clothing that they don't really need. and by spending their -- using their credit card for nonessential items, they're adding to all that debt.

so jo, this is going to surprise you. in the first quarter of 2019, just the first couple months of this year, when it comes to total debt for u.s. households, it went up to $13 trillion! and that's because we're not just dealing with credit card debt, but also mortgages, which are essential. housing, i mean, that's really important. you add on student loan debt and car loans and it balloons up. and this problem is getting worse. >> it certainly affects consumer confidence, which we're seeing hit a low point over the last two years or so. so, what is your best advice for people who want to lower their credit card debt and cut that spending? >> yeah, so just do the math. you know, average. households, they carry $5,700 in debt. if you want to pay down that debt, it's going to take you about 20 years, and you're not just going to pay that amount. you're going to pay an additional more than $7,000 in interest. so, all the incentives are there to pay down that debt. don't just stick with the minimum monthly payment. also, of course, we all like to buy extra shoes, extra clothing,

extra makeup. i mean, the fun stuff -- go on vacation. so, get a side hustle. get the money so you can actually afford those extra things in addition to having a housing and roof over your head. >> that certainly opens up a whole new debate on wage growth and all that. but i want to hit one more topic before we close out. linkedin is taking a look at how americans are spending summer vacations and they find the more that you're paid, the harder it is to detach from your job. what does this say about how we're working these days? >> yeah, it says that, you know, you're making more money, but it makes it that much harder to really enjoy your time off because you're very likely going to be contacted by your colleagues or clients while you're at the beach or lounging around the pool. so, this is related to salary. so, people who are making less than $25,000 a year, they say they never respond to emails or phone calls. but high earners, people making $160,000 to $180,000 a year, 83% of them are contacted at least more than once when it comes to emails and phone calls, and those making over $200,000, 93%

are contacted. so, yes, they're making more money, but it's even harder to have time off. >> all right, sibile marcellus, reporter for yahoo! finance, thank you so much! >> thanks, jo. the story behind why the lights suddenly went out in new york city last night at the top of the hour. st night at the top of the hour. hmm. exactly.

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good morning. i'm jo ling kent in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out

west. here's what's happening. big apple blackout. why the lights went out and how people coped in the dark. coastal communities under water, cut off by flooding. how the threat from tropical storm barry is far from over. [ crowd chanting ] and outrage over immigration raids. the latest on i.c.e. plans in cities across the country. plus, what's worse, republicans bashing trump behind his back but not confronting him publicly, or the rift between the house speaker and the squad? answers ahead. we're starting with the very latest from a gulf coast tropical storm barry, downgraded from hurricane strength but still packing a pretty big punch with 45-mile-an-hour winds, drges storm surge and flash flooding remains serious threats in louisiana with a total of about 8 to 15 inches of rain expected. flash floods pressing the coast guard into rescue service southwest