match her standard of excellence. she is an icon. she'll be honored with a lifetime achievement emy award in september. congratulations, andrea, from all of us who are lucky enough to call you a friend and mentor. >> geoff, thank you so much. what a lifetime it is and more to come. thank you very much. we are honored. and right now on "andrea mitchell reports," born in the usa. president trump suggesting four congresswomen of color should go back home, even though only one is foreign born. >> to consolidate power. >> taking on trump. what a new nbc news poll tells us about how democrats would match up against the president. >> democratic voters so

transfixed on beating donald trump and that question of which democrat is best positioned to do it. joe biden does the best. 51-42% in our poll. secret stash. prosecutors in the jeffrey epstein case reveal a trove at his mansion, pile of cash, diamonds, passport issued to epstein from another country under another name. >> they did not say which country the passport was issued from but he had an address, residence in saudi arabia. obviously, that raises a bunch of questions. >> unrelenting in his attacks of four congresswomen of color, after tweeting that the four who had been in contact with nancy pelosi should go back and fix

the problems in the countries from which they came. peter baker framing the president's position on page one today, writing president trump woke up on sunday morning, gazed out at the nation he leads, saw the dry kindling of race relations and decided to throw a match on it. he has a pretty large carton of matches. that is the front page of today's "new york times." the president pouring more gasoline on this political firestorm today, labeling the women radical, attacking them for, quote, foul language, disgusting alcohols and racist hatred. all this on twitter, exploiting tensions between them and the speaker of the house. congresswoman ocasio-cortez is responding to the president today. >> it's unfortunate that he feels the way he feels about

people of color in this country. it's time to move on from him and his conception of america that we have tried to move past for a long time. >> msnbc contributor kimberly atkins for wbur. kristen, first of all, you had a conversation with mark short from the white house today, trying to defend a president and i want to play some of that for all of us and have you respond to it. >> how is it not racist to tell women to go back to their countries and all but one were born here. >> he has women of color in his

administration. >> what does that have to do with that? >> he's making it about the very specific, pretty much individual member of congress. >> doesn't he need to be held accountable for his words? he said go back to these four women. >> i'm not saying otherwise. >> do you acknowledge at least go back to your country is a racist trope. do you see why people are upset? >> no, i'm not going to acknowledge that, hallie. >> kristen welker and our colleague, hallie jackson. kristen, is he saying because there is an asian-american woman in the cabinet that that means he's not using racist language and descriptions of these four congresswomen? >> it seemed as though that was his defense, andrea, to try to point out there are people of color who work within this administration. i pressed him on that and said

wait a minute what does that have to do with the president's words and tweets, which many democrats have come forward and said they believe is fundamentally racists. bottom line, mark short wants to be talking about passing the usmca, replacement for nafta, something that the vice president is spearheading here. instead he is forced to defend the president and his controversial comments. he sees this as something that is energizing. you take a step back, andrea, this has been his tactic in the past. we saw this in 2016. remember, he, of course, launched his political career based on the birtherism idea, something he has since stepped away from. basically engaging in the race and culture wars is something

that the president is comfortable with and sees as potentially politically empowering, andrea. >> kimberly, sitting next to me, kristen has been nodding her hea head. >> this is a president who only has, at this point, two people of color in his cabinet. he had an outgoing person of color he stood to friday and commented on the fact that he was latino might have made it difficult for him, tougher because he went to harvard. we had a president who was a birther of barack obama the tweets he sent unfortunately are on brand for him. this is a president who has used race, as kristen pointed out, politically since the beginning. he sees these racial, cultural wars as beneficial to him. he featured a couple of defeats

with the immigration raids not being as robust as he wanted. and it seems to be the place that he retreats to. the president notably, on friday, was praising nancy pelosi and defending her against what aoc had said about her. >> somehow he thought he was going to drive a wedge further between the two of them. >> exactly. >> and had the opposite impact, as do these tweets. the concern is that it will be part of a longer term strategy because he feels frustrated. the bigger concern here is that he sees these women as better foils to run against than someone like joe biden or someone like elizabeth warren. and this will be a recurrent theme throughout his campaign. you mentioned the recent failures.

let's talk about the bigger promises that were made during his campaign. what really propelled his whole candidacy was, you know, building a wall. it was the muslim ban. neither of those things have happened in addition to the recent setbacks. that brings us back, again, to the diversionary tactics. and let's just hope that this is not going to be a recurrent theme where he's focused more on any kind of tension with these women and his competitors in the 2020 campaign. >> you can see the nancy pelosi tweet from this weekend, just to your point, heidi, about bringing them closer together and healing the rifts potentially, serious rifts in the democratic party in their caucus. she was writing when donald trump tells four american congresswomen to go back to their countries, he reaffirms their plan to, quote, make america great again has always been about making america white again. our diversity is our strength and our unity is our power. >> this gave nancy pell oosi a

moment to step away from that controversy last week, which i think a lot of democrats felt was overblown and was not productive between her and these freshmen lawmakers and to rally her conference, her caucus around her. he will become the external threat to the caucus, not nancy pelosi, the longer this goes on. >> first i want to point out part of this issue between the speaker and the four congresswomen erupted because of a column a week ago from maureen dowd when she sounded almost mortified she somehow contributed to this, which she didn't. in her column yesterday, she wrote there is no more stupid proposition than that nancy pelosi is the problem.

they will be left with a racist backward president and the emotional satisfaction of their own purity. >> a generational thing going on here. the best thing that can happen for all sides is for nancy pell owes y and ocasio-cortez to come together and show they have much more in common than what separates them. >> this is a new generation t t that. trump coming in and throwing bombs is only going to unite the caucus sxl at that point, kristen welker has been made as well from one of his golf partners from yesterday, lindsey graham, who was on fox this

morning and had this advice for the president. >> aim higher. they're american citizens. they won an election. take on their policies. mr. president, you're right about their policies, about where they'll take the country. just aim higher. don't get personal. don't take the bait. this is not about a person. it is about a country. >> apparently so far he's not listening to lindsey graham's advice. by the way, lindsey graham is the only republican who is even commenting with his one tweet but where is the rest of the republican party, kristen, in speaking out against the president, igniting these very clearly racist issues? >> that will become the question today, andrea. is it agreement or

embarrassment? i think more and more, you are going to see public lawmakers pressed to speak out about where they stand. the president starting an event on the south lawn. will he answer reporters' questions? undoubtedly they are armed with their questions. >> heidi pryzbyla, kristen welker, hallie jackson, thank you. details coming up on s cominn as your life grows, so do your needs. ♪ and with bank of america and merrill, the benefits you get can grow, too. as a preferred rewards member, you can enjoy priority service and exclusive discounts...

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. the trump administration is taking another major step in restricting the flow of migrants coming into the u.s. the administration will implement a sweeping new policy, requiring migrants to seek asylum in another country in other country before seeking it in the u.s. the move is expected to be immediately challenged in court. julia ainsley, how would this work? >> it would stop asylum as we know it in the united states at the southern border.

central americans are coming through mexico at our southern border, claiming asylum because they have a fear of persecution in their own countries and can't trust the governments in order to go to them and tell them when they're being persecuted or coming under this violence. this would effectively say any country you go through on your route to the united states, if you are feasibly able to apply for asylum, you should apply there. mexico, guatemala, countries we've never deemed safe third-party countries because you have to have an agreement with that country and you have to be able to feasibly see how that country could protect these asylum seekers. >> isn't this what they demanded of mexico? >> they did, and mexico did not agree to it. they demanded the same thing of guatemala. the guatemalan court just put that on hold. what do you see the next day? interim final rule, essentially the government saying we're going to go ahead with this anyway. we can expect it to be held up in court. >> that could very well explain why the guatemalan leader

canceled a planned visit to washington today. >> exactly. he canceled that visit. we thought it could well be because his own court said you cannot go forward with this agreement. it seems that the u.s. government said we don't even need these agreements. we will put this in place anyway. the attorney general does have the power to bend asylum rules but this feels like it's much further. >> john, you used to run i.c.e. what about the impact of this? i mean, the right to asylum is internationally recognized. we're talking about treaties here. >> yeah. we're signatory to the treaty. julia is right. they're trying to get mexico to take this population back this is an end around on that. mexico refused. the other central american countries have refused. it's not adequate whether they're safe third countries, to process these asylum claims or keep these people safe. they're saying if you didn't make an asylum claim as you passed through mexico, go back there or to central america. there's a lot of questions as to

how this will be implemented. courts will be look ath this very closely, very quickly, i assume. also the question of whether it's going to be effective. i'm not entirely sure that's going to solve the problems that the administration is trying to solve, stop the influx of these asylum seekers. >> does this essentially mean that everything is put on hold and no one will be granted asylum from the southern border in the interim? >> if you read the rules that are designed right now, every central american obviously has to go through mexico is making these asylum claims. if you don't make an asylum claim there, then you're not eligible. the way i read the rule right now, it looks as though they can return these people to central america. at a minimum, they think they can return the people to mexico to make their asylum claim there. they'll have serious concerns when they say we're taking 40,000, 50,000 people a month and sending them back. this doesn't completely close alcohol's to the asylum courts for the asylum seekers. they have to see an immigration

judge before we deport them. i'm not sure that this helps what trump is hoping to do, which is just that. >> if they show up at legal portales, they can just be blocked right there by this order, as i would read it. >> they can. again, this administration is actually forcing people to take illegal routes and sneak into the country. if you're worried about immigration on a national security level, that we don't know who is coming across our border, this policy would make you more afraid. it is forcing people to take other routes rather than present themselves in a legal way. >> john, as someone who used to run i.c.e., this announced crackdown, which didn't fully materialize as expected but did, according to some people in the neighborhoods, had intended effect, people stayed in. no people in the parks, the streets, people were afraid to leave their homes this weekend. >> yeah.

listen, i don't think that the plan at i.c.e. was ever going to be what the president envisioned. he started off saying 1 million people. no way i.c.e. has the capability of doing that without shutting down everything. even then the numbers would be very small compared to that. it was overstated from the beginning. you have to question why was the administration so public in announcing this? what were their motives here? this is a disaster, puts the fors in danger and tells the targets stay in, lock your door, don't open it, because i.c.e. is coming for you. you're not going to get the people you're setting out to go get in the first place. why were you doing this in advance? you wonder if they're try ingin create hysteria in immigrant communities. certainly looks like they were successful in that regard. >> julia ainsley, john, thank you both. good to get a reality check here. we're hearing from the very first republican to publicly condemn the president's comments, fred upton tweeted

frankly i'm appalled by the president's tweets. there's no excuse. inflammatory rhetoric from both sides of the aisle used to divide us isn't right. it's not helpful. we have too many challenges facing us that we need to be working on together. immigration, the debt ceiling, border crisis. the president's tweets were flat out wrong and uncalled for and i would encourage my colleagues from both parties to stop talking so much and start governing more. long-time friend and colleague of the late john dingle, standing up when no one else in his party s jeffrey epstein, by the way, is still in jail today. prosecutors have discovered more in his safe. more details and some new accounts from alleged victims, coming up next. stay with us, right here on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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major developments for alleged sex trafficker jeffrey epste epstein. federal prosecutors told the judge they just discovered a safe in epstein's upper east side mansion contained a stash

of money, jewels and passport from another country under another name. the judge said he would not make a decision on bail until later this week. epstein was arrested earlier this month and has pled not guilty to charges of sex trafficking and conspiracy. tom winter is in the courtroom and harry lichtman former assistant attorney general. first, bring us up-to-date on why the delay on a decision on bail and what were the new revelations we heard apparently from at least one or two alleged victims in court today, asking that he not be released? >> reporter: that's right, andrea. today was the first time we heard from alleged victims in the courtroom, specifically annie farmer. she said, quote, i was 16 years old when i had the misfortune of meeting mr. epstein in new york. she wanted to voice her support that he remain detained,

essentially behind bars, pending his possible trial. in addition to that, we heard from courtney wilde. she says that she was 16 he she was sexually abused by jeffrey epstein. she said, quote, he is a scary person to have walking the street. she is the jane doe, andrea, behind the lawsuit that eventually led to the judge in miami, if you remember back in february, saying that essentially alex acosta and his team violated law by not notifying victims that there were ongoing discussions in a nonprosecutorial agreement and that epstein could still be prosecuted even though he filed those documents. what's one the judge and whether or not jeffrey epstein will get bail here today, judge richard berman has to consider some specific issues under law. that's part of the bail reform act and some other issues that are part of the filings here. typically, and as he said several times, jeffrey epstein

is presumed innocent until convicted by a jury, if he is convicted by a jury. what he needs to look at here is specific strattory issues. he wants to take today's arguments into account, that expired passport. he wants to take into account the cash, the diamonds that were found in that safe. and everything that's been presented by his attorneys and their attorneys and then come up with some sort of coherent, very clear decision on thursday morning. so it's not surprising that we get to this point here today. >> and harry lichtman, what is the defense argument? i was reading that there were some defense arguments that because they were nonprosecution agreements signed by some of the victims that he can somehow not be prosecuted now in a different jurisdiction. does that hold weight with you? >> it doesn't hold weight and it's not going to hold weight. it's going to be that he did reveal today that it did go all the way up to main justice and

the deputy attorney general. it gives it more credence, because it's not going to matter now to stay the hand of the southern district. for the bail hearing now, he has to show -- actually, the government has to show one of two things, either that he's out there, committing crimes and will be doing it anyway and they revealed, in fact, he has been bribing witnesses and silencing them, while he -- in recent past, or that he's a flight risk. and this guy has flight risk written all over him. he's worth half a million dollars. if he doesn't flee, he probably never sees the outside again. he has the fake passport. that, i suspect, will be pivotal for judge berman. judges are human. if he grants him release and epstein winds up fleeing, it will be the number one thing he is remembered for. it seems to me even though the government bears a heavy burden that on thursday, he will announce that he's keeping epstein in. >> and what about the details, tom, of the fact that he didn't

register or have to register as a sex offender in new york, even though he was supposed to from florida? is that an issue for the d.a.'s office in new york or is that because it's a different jurisdiction? >> reporter: well, it's a great question, andrea. it's a very complicated issue. frankly even epstein's own attorney said today they need to do more research to figure out what epstein's requirements actually were and whether or not they were met. they made a point they've not heard from new york state since that new york post article last week, since we started report ing on it, many others started reporting on this issue and the indictment as to whether or not epstein has violated any sort of requirements that he had to register as a sex offender. i think the key question -- it's not quite resolved in new york courts, is whether or not you have to notify new york state if you're here for nine days or less, basically if there's this kind of ten-day mark that they're kind of quibbling about, whether or not he had to notify

authorities here. still under a bit of discussion, andrea. >> thank you very much. our legal advisers here, harry litman and tom winter. thanks to both. coming up, how do the democratic front-runners stack up to president trump? the latest from our washington post/nbc news poll coming up next. news poll coming up next hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. iand grew it toy froi$36 billion dollars. 6 in 2010, i signed the giving pledge to fund good causes. then i left my business to combat climate change, fix our democracy, and hold president trump accountable. last year, we ran the largest youth voter mobilization in history - helping double turnout and win back the house. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message.

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how the top four democratic primary contenders would fair against president trump is fascinating. head-to-head faceoffs have the president behind the top three contenders in our poll and in a virtual tie with the fourth. unable to clear 44% against any of these opponents. author of chasing hillary, and a.b. stoddard. welcome both. a.b., first to you, let's take a look at the poll. we should caution it's early, hypothetical and we don't know what's going to happen between now and then or who will be the opponent and how that will change at all. it is interesting that in almost every poll, in every poll really the president has never gone past that 45% mark. >> and has never bested the top democrats in the field. your right, many things can change, many things can worsen

for the president between now and next september when the general election is on. if they cannibalize each other and deeply wound whoever ends up being their nominee. i think it will be an issue of turnover for the president. if the democrats turned out the way they did in the midterms tomorrow, he couldn't beat at least three contenders on that side. he can be in denial about the polls. you run like your scared and ten points behind. he likes to pretend these things are fiction but they should be telling him something. >> let me play devil's advocate here, amy and say you and i both covered the hillary clinton campaign and democrats were very confide

confident. he is the incumbent, has the red and white airplane, soon to be a red, white and blue airplane, we think, if he gets re-elected. the economy, the stock market, the race baiting that many people are alleging is going on, that has been going on since the muslim ban in december 2015. so, those are all the advantages that incumbent has. and we don't know who the nominee will be. >> absolutely. i think these polls are more informative about the kind of contours of the democratic primary changing and the debates had impact on who was standing where. in terms of trump matching up to them very leery, whether it's interference from russia, another foreign adversary, whether it was the last time those october surprises, comey letter, whatever it is. as mentioned the economy is

strong. it's incredibly difficult to defeat an incumbent with a strong economy. >> the trump campaign and the republicans have with social media online, even approximate it's legitimate stuff, to say nothing of the fake accounts and all the ways that they've learned themselves as well as what the russians have done in the past. that said, let's take a look now, drill down on, as you talk about the shape of the race. what we see in this poll also, what we've been analyzing the last couple of days, those who want change versus those who don't want so much change. interestingly, among those who want change, one woman stands out, elizabeth warren, who is dividing the big change constituency, if you will, and coming to the fore.

what is it about women candidates and whether there's a much higher bar for them? >> absolutely there is. this recent batch of polling really should smash our assumptions about electability. i think it's an interesting dynamic. specific policies, i've got a plan for that, how that's resonating with voters who are gravitating to her. and there is this lingering excitement about potentially electing a first woman president. to a lot of democratic voters, i think that's way overdue. >> does that excite the base or alienate? >> we have -- >> sorry. >> we have a bunch of anecdotal evidence that many democrats are

so afraid of a trump re-election that this is not a psych toll have what they want but what they need. that's why biden continues to prevail in every single poll in the lead position. that can change as we get closer to voting in february. there is evidence that most of the coalition, including women, tell focus groups, reporters, party chairs, i don't think we can risk it. what if the men in the rust belt aren't ready to elect a woman? that's what's going against these women candidates. >> madam president five candidates on what it would take to shatter the stubborn glass ceiling on newsstands tomorrow. it's a great read. >> thank you. >> thank you.

annie liebowitz pictures, you can't do better than that. photos i should say. coming up, blind eye, mike pence talking about conditions at a border detention center. stay with us. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. mitchell reports" on msnbc. ter month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores.

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i knew we would see a system we were overwhelmed. >> you talked to a couple of children and mothers. >> i did. >> did you talk to the adult migrants? >> i did. >> what did they tell you? >> i asked them about their care. >> here i'm talking about. >> they said they're being taken care of. this facility is overcrowded. the president has been told by the secretary that this system is overwhelmed. we want the american people to know that. the level of care, this facility is clean, hygiene. this is tough stuff.

>> it depends on how you define hygiene. overcrowded facility near mccallum, texas, and a new center that opened two months ago, vice president mike pence defended the treatment of migrants being held in custody while the vice president downgraded the gritty conditions that mainly houses adult men, reporters depicted a different picture, men held in cages, no cots, forced to sleep on concrete, no mats or pillows and reporting a horrendous stench because many of the men did not shower in weeks and the air conditioning did not appear to be working properly. reporter for usa today, white house correspondent professor at the university of texas in austin, msnbc contributor. victoria, the vice president trying to put a good face on it,

but also using the overcrowding to say this is a crisis that we're trying to deal with. >> it was problematic. the other comments had to do with saying every american should be proud of the care we're providing to these folks and i, for one, disagree. do i agree there's a crisis? absolutely. in saying that things could be better, that we can improve the situation, there's nothing wrong with that. i had a fantasy that this could be the moment when both sides could come together and say this isn't good. we're going to do better. there may be different solutions on the table of how to get there. let's recognize what we're seeing before our eyes. the question, where do we go from here? >> the situation, as you know, in your own area in florida in homeinstead was viewed by many

of the candidates after the debate and they described horrendous conditions there. >> yeah. it's not just contained at the southern border. many were touring that facility today. we're touring it and it was interesting. conditions in the homestead facility are different. at least congress, members of congress can visit. at least members of amnesty and other nonprofit organizations can visit. these border patrol facilities that the vice president visited do not have that kind of access. the only times we hear about these is when the few that are

granted access come out and speak. so that secrecy to get into those facilities and observe them is what makes it so hard and leads to such incredibly dangerous and bleeds dangerous conditions in all of these places. >> congress members are told they can't have spot inspection, they have to give them advance notice and children being taken in in one facility and put back another before and after. the president was just on the south lawn and jeff, i want to play for you, he was asked whether or not his tweets were intentionally racist against the four members of congress, the women of color. and this is a video on kelly o'donell's iphone that she shot. she got a lot closer audibly than the camera pool. >> not at all. >> somebody has a problem with our country.

if somebody does not want to be in our country, they should leave. >> are all those women not american? >> when you look at her statement from al al-qai-qaeda. this is really about economic dw development. >> which congresswoman are you talking about? >> you can hear kelly asking jeff could you be more inclusive and do better, sir? his initial comment were not at all. >> i was out there too, andrea, this is an example of the president doubling down. it is in line of what happened after his comments in charlottesville or about charlottesville where he said they were good people on both sides that's why the fact that rally has been led by white

supremacists. democra lindsey graham says he should aim higher. that's his way of dealing with that kind of thing. >> so far only lindsey graham and fred upton that we have seen. the wait on other republicans as well. alan gomez and francesco and jeff. thank you all. biden's care. stay with us on "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. a mitchel reports" only on msnbc trades? uh, i'll look into it. (phone rings) lisa jones! lisa: (on phone) hey carl, what are you charging me for online equity trades? (nervous chuckle) lisa: and do i get my fees back if i'm not happy? like a satisfaction guarantee? ugh. schwab! lisa: oh right, i'm calling schwab. thanks, carl! wait, lisa! lisa... are you getting low costs backed by a satisfaction guarantee? if not, talk to schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.

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come back if you want, don't come back, it is okay too.

if ru nyou are not happy, you c leave. >> well, that's a racist statement somebody would say that. speaker pelosi said "make america white again." that's a racist statement, i am surprised she said that. john, go ahead. >> i am very unhappy, i am watching them and all they do is complain. if they want to leave, they can leave. i look at omar, i never met her. i hear the way al-qaida, al-qaeda killed many americans. she said you can hold your chest out and when i think of america, when i think of al-qaida, i can hold my chest out.

when she talks about the world trade center -- these are people in my opinion hates our country. you can say all you want. get a list of all the statements that's made. all i am saying they're not happy here. they can leave. they can leave and you know what -- i am sure there will be many people that won't mess them. they have to love our country. they're congress people and i am not going to be using any names. these are people -- quiet, quiet, quiet. quiet. these are people that if they don't like it here, they can leave. i would be -- i don't know who's going to miss them but some people will. one of them is polling at 8%.

one of them is polling at 8%. when i hear people speaking about how wonderful al-qaida is, when i hear people talking about some people, some people with the world trade center. much more than some people. when i hear staples that thtemey made and in one case you had someone coming from somalia, who left somalia and came here and now is a congresswoman who is never happy and says horrible things about israel. hates israel. hates jews, hates jews. very simple. if the democrats want to wrap their bows around this group of four people, one of them kicked amazon out of new york. tens of thousands of jobs. would have been a great thing. she kept amazon from a good deal. could he made better? maybe. >> tens of thousands of jobs and

new york has not been the same since it happened. it hurts new york. amazon was going to go, they're going to relocate a major section. they kept it out. that was a terrible thing she did. so here mattiis the story. i see them complaining. they're complaining constantly. i watch lindsey graham today on "fox and friends" talking about the same subject and frankly even stronger than what i am saying. he's saying communithey're comm. i am saying as to whether or not they are communists, i would think they may be. this is what our country is about. never the less, they are free to leave if they want. if they want top lealeave if th and if they want to stay that's fine. politicians can't be afraid to

take them on. we are at war with al-qaida and see somebody talking about how great al-qaida is. that was omar, how great al-qaida is. when you hear that and we are losing great soldiers to al-qaida, when you see the world trade center gets knocked out and the statements made about the world trade center and all the deaths and destructions, i will tell you what, i am not happy with them. it is very easy for me to say oh gee, it is okay. if weak politicians want to say and the democrats in this case, if they want to gear their wagons around these four people, i think they'll have a tough election. i don't think the people of the united states will stand for it. >> john, go ahead.