fear and hatred. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. i've got breaking news from the capitol. the u.s. house of representatives of the united states has voted moments ago to condemn the president of the united states for having, quote, legitimized fear and hatred of new americans and people of color. the resolution followed the president's racist comments about four congresswomen of color. the vote posed as a reckoning for republicans. it forced each of them to say on

the record whether they condemn the president's remarks or not, and only four of those republicans did condemn them. they were will hurd of texas, susan brooks of indiana and brian fitzpatrick of pennsylvania. house minority leader whip stephen scalise of louisiana and democratic congressman john lewis each made closing arguments for each side before the vote. let's watch. >> rather than engaging in this constant barrage of personality attack that we've seen week after week after week, the american people expect us to be spending our time up here fighting for the issues they care about, and these are easy issues for us to solve if we come together and spend realtime in good faith working on them. rather than this foolishness. >> i rise with a sense of righteous indignation to support this resolution. i know racism when i see it. i know racism when i feel it.

and at the highest level of government, there is no room for racism. >> well, the rebuke to the president comes after he tripled down on his racist attacks again today, saying that those four women of congress hate their country. >> the democratic congresswomen should leave if they're not happy. where should they go? >> it's up to them. go wherever they want, wherever they can stay. but they should love our country. they shouldn't hate our country. and the way they're treating israel is a disgrace. but not only israel, it's what they say about our country. it's my opinion they hate our country, and that's not good. it's not acceptable. >> well, trump also insists on twitter that those tweets were not racist. i don't have a racist bone in my body. the so-called vote is to be taken is a democrat con game. republicans should not show weakness and fall into their trap. that's all trump talking there.

house minority leader kevin mccarthy was quick to endorse trump's behavior this morning. >> were the president's tweets that said go back racist? yes, or no. >> no. i believe this is about ideology. this is about socialism versus freedom. >> likewise, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell defended the president and said both sides are to blame. >> i think everybody ought to tone down their rhetoric. we have examples of that across the ideological spectrum in the country, all across it, everyone ought to tone down their rhetoric and we ought to move back to talking about the issues. >> but you've stopped short of calling his comments racist? >> well, the president is not a racist. the president is not a racist. and i think the tone of all of this is not good for the country. >> i'm joined now by two democratic congressmen, david cicilline of rhode island.

congressman cicilline, you start. jack kennedy when he was president said sometimes party loyalty asks too much. i don't understand these republicans. there is a chance they say i like his tax cuts. i like husband deregulation. i don't like his personal behavior. this was about his personal behavior, and they voted with him like lemmings. your thoughts? >> yeah, it's very disappointing. this is really a sad vote in many ways. we only had four republicans who were willing to show the courage of their convictions to speak up and condemn this racist language in strong terms. the president evidenced he doesn't understand what is really great about this country and that is our diversity, the fact that america is a welcoming place for people from all over the world. the idea saying go back to your country is one of the oldest, racist trope there's. it should have been condemned by every american. it's unamerican. it was disgusting. the president owes them an apology. owes the american people an apology. >> congressman liu, you said something very powerful on this.

i wish you would say it again. >> thank you, chris, for your questions. so like many people in america, i'm an immigrant. i also served on active duty in the united states military because i love america, and yet people have told me to go back to china or japan or north korea, and it's very hurtful when that happens. like many immigrants, when we get that go back insult, we feel that we don't belong here in america. and make no mistake, the go back insult is flat-out racist because it's based on race. if i was white, people wouldn't tell me to go back to china. they tell me because i happen to be of asian race. but what's good is americans now realize that immigration is a good thing. we have high support for immigration. in fact, record highs according to a new poll, and david cicilline and i are still going to be standing here after the occupant of the white house departs. >> yeah, i think that's true, mr. cicilline. nobody would tell some west virginian from scotch irish background to go back to

scotland or northern ireland. nobody would think of that because they're white. >> that's right. >> it's so obvious. >> it's so obvious, and what's so disappointing is you look at the president's language. you look at his policies. this is clearly racism, and that was an opportunity for everyone to stand up and say enough is enough. we need to move forward on a whole range of important policy issues. we've passed 230 pieces of legislation that are sitting on mitch mcconnell's desk. we have lots of work to do for the american people. but it would have been very helpful today if everyone in the congress said this is not america, this is not acceptable and condemned and voted to condemn the president for what he did. and it was very disappointing that we only had four republicans that were willing to add their voices to this. this is -- doesn't reflect who we are as a country. we cannot let the president say these things and change the character of america. and it was disappointing today that we weren't joined by our republican colleagues. it was an important thing to do. the country and the president needs to see us standing up and

saying this is not acceptable. this is unamerican. this is not who we are. no one should be speaking this way, particularly the president of the united states. >> urging a unanimous vote today early today, speaker pelosi condemned the president's words as racist, a move that prompted republicans to ask the parliamentarian to strike her words from the record under the rule that prohibits personal attacks on the house floor. here it is. >> these comments from the white house are disgraceful and disgusting and these comments are racist. every single member of this institution, democratic and republican should join us in condemning the president's racist tweets. to do anything less would be a shocking rejection of our values and a shameful abdication of our oaths of office to protect the american people. i urge an unanimous vote. >> thank you. >> and yield back. >> i was going to give the gentle speaker of the house if she would like to rephrase that comment. >> i have cleared my remarks

with the parliamentarian before i read them. >> can i ask that her words be taken down? i make a point the gentlewoman's words are unparliamentarian. >> the parliamentary later ruled that pelosi's language us indeed out of order. however, to strike the words from the word was overruled by a near unanimous democratic vote. let me ask you, congressman lieu, what do you think of that? one of our producers is pretty sharp and said the wedge was pretty personal about the president. what was wrong with her saying that in her argument for it? >> there is nothing wrong with what speaker pelosi said because it was the truth. there is an antiquated rule in the house of representatives that basically says during debate, you cannot say the president's racist or that his remarks are racist, even if it is. and what the house of representatives did today is we in effect reversed precedent because we want to make sure we say factory true things on the

house floor. i want to note that the president is engaging in a new line of attack now. he is attack legal immigration and u.s. citizenship. and the problem for him is that many americans are immigrants or have family members who are immigrants. this is backfiring on him in a big way, and he is going to see that most of america does not support what he says. >> and chris, the real irony of it -- the real irony of it is the republicans didn't have the courage to stand up and call it out and say it's racist and condemn him. then they try to prevent those of white house have the courage to stand up and tell the truth to prevent us from doing that. bad enough you don't have the courage, but you're a coward who won't stand up for american principles of equality and diversity and all the things that have made this country strong, but then you want to take down the words of the speaker because she spoke the truth? it's a shameful day. >> yeah that. >> should stay away i from the lincoln memorial. thank you so much, u.s. congressman david cicilline and congressman ted lieu, thank you, sir. coming up, michelle goldberg, michael single is

republican political consultant, michael eric dyson a professor at georgetown. the republican party, i was saying this to michael before, you may have been hiding for two years now saying you know, i don't really like the way this guy tweets or talks. i don't really like his character even, but i like his tax cuts and i like his deregulation and his rah-rah. here is a clear surgical vote today to say all that, we don't like his behavior, his character. this was about the character, about the language the president's used, and they walked away from it, except for four members, they all went down the line like lemmings. >> that's right. first of all, i'm not sure how many of the republicans who do say that they really condemn trump's behavior actually have a history of being anti-racist, or having any real problem with racism. but more than that, they know their constituents, particularly in the more red districts, it's

precisely the racism that makes them so enthusiastic about trump. i think one of the things we've discovered in these last three years is a lot of the base of the republican party was never that excited about republican economic policies. it was not excited about the tax cuts. it's never been excited about laissez faire economics or libertarian approach to regulation. what thrills them is the white nationalism. and so it is very different. i think for most members of the republican party to distance themselves from white nationalism without bringing on the rage and a possible primary challenge from their base, right? i think trump has an accurate assessment of what it is that moves the people who vote for him. >> professor dyson, it looks to me like that vote today was a codification of the charge that maga is really white nationalism. >> no doubt. i think ms. goldberg has brilliantly articulated that. it is the principle premise and predicate of this man's

engagement politically, and its appeal to people beyond the intelligence of the actor, the citizen, the person he confronts. he appeals directly to an emotional resonance and response. he is a genius at that. a demented genius, but a genius nonetheless. he understands the manipulation. he understands how to characterize things and encapsulate them in bite-sized digestible form, and he does it both politically. he does it economically and socially and does it in terms of the politics of representation. he knew exactly what he was doing, and he knows by standing up for this principle, he will organize the logic of white supremacy across the country. >> what's interesting is george corley wallace, the governor of alabama was always careful when he went to the national audience. he would say pointy-headed liberals. he would say the bureaucrat with his attache case with his peanut butter sandwiches in there it was a which to diminish federal government power. but he never made the racial climate this guy is doing it.

>> it's like bringing swurg a switch blade. that's what we see going on here. he doesn't have the skill of a george wallace. he doesn't even have the acumen of a george wallace. he doesn't even understand the psychology. what he does understand is the raw emotional appeal of racist ideology. he knows better than anybody else that's what undergirds so much of white response across -- >> is there any evil genius at work there, attacking those four women elevated them front page in color on "the wall street journal" today, right at the top. it looked like a scene out of the bible. these were fabulous face, fabulous picture showcased. he did that. donald trump did that. he took them from a level of being mavericks to being the heroes of the nation to many people. why did he do it? is he stupid? or is he secretly trying to make them the democratic party? >> i don't know. >> politically he did it because if you look at swing states,

aoc, representative ilhan are not very popular. democrats in some cases have raised that. so if the argument is a philosophical difference of socialism that is which also does not resonate very well in swing states, then let's have that argument. we have the apparatus. he did not do that. he made it personal based off of race. what really sorts of disappoints me as a republican, as a conservative more than anything, i'm a conservative who happens to belong to the republican party is that donald trump does not even respect the most basic norms, the most basic norms that i think even conservatives and liberals alike have agreed. these are the most basic forms of social knowledge. we all expect people to governor themselves accordingly, particularly leaders, particularly the president. and what donald trump has realized is that it is this group of nationalists. these folks are always part of the republican party, doc, but they were really looking for someone to mobilize them and

energize them. donald trump did that better than mitt romney could have. he did it better than john mccain could have. >> i know. scary. >> and the result, chris is you see a rampant form of racism whereas the norm. >> here is the scary thing. michelle goldberg, i thought when w. was president, it wasn't like a great leader was president who had a great oratorical ability or connects with the people. he had a very limited connection. he was a high back on the slap i married up and all that bs stuff. but he took us into a war that cost the lyes of 100,000 people. now this president has done something different. he has taken the republican party hostage. they are basically all p.o.w.s. they do anything he wants. they say anything he wants, and he has no connection historically to the party. >> and they have stockholm syndrome. >> and how did he do this, michelle? how did he make republicans like kevin mr. contact thimccarthy i stupid guy. >> i think taking them hostage implies they are unwilling participants in this.

i think what donald trump has going for him is he has this kind of limbic connection to the passions and the id if you will of the republican base. and what the republican party has learned over the last few years is that a lot of their voters were never in it for the conservative ideology. they were in it for the reaction and for the racism. and so when you see kevin mccarthy and all of these other republicans kind of go along with donald trump, it's because they've made their choice. they can either stand up to these extraordinarily dark and destructive forces or they can risk their political career. and they're not willing to do the latter. >> i think you're right. i think he has a closer connection to the republican voters hand the republicans. what's limbic, mean? i need little help here. >> it's like the front brain that controls the frontal cortex and brain. >> i was thinking that. you were educating me the very first stroke there. we'll be right back. the same guest are sticking with us. i think this is an historic day, bad day, bad day for the

republicans. they're not going to be able to live this past with the suburban voters who don't want to be thinking of themselves, whatever they are, they don't want to think of themselves as racist, and trump's blatant hypocrisy about criticizing america, because here he goes. >> you look at what they've said, i have clips right here. the most vile, horrible statements about our country. >> well, trump says america, love it or leave it. in that case, trump the candidate would have to be asked to leave by trump the president. we'll show you some of his very, very bad things he said about our country when he was running, when he was the outsider. and newspapers all across the country in red states and blue are taking a strong stand against trump's divisive language. by the way, nbc, the houston kron cam calling his words the ratest rantings of a bigot. will it actually cost him any votes next year? the good news, brand-new poms show democrats' numbers are on the rise.

and montana governor steve bullock plays "hardball" tonight. his thoughts on the immigration situation and much more. a lot to get to tonight. by the way, listen to nbc news tonight about the word racist. powerful information here. stick with us. icwith us.iagnosed with breast cancer, there was no hesitation, i went straight to ctca. after my mastectomy, it was maddening because i felt part of my identity was being taken away. when you're able to restore what cancer's taken away, you see that transformation firsthand knowing that she had options that she could choose, helped restore hope. my team made me feel like a whole person again. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. and my side super soft?

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if you're not happy in the u.s., if you're complaining all the time, very simply, you can leave. you can leave right now. >> well, they're very unhappy. i'm watching them. all they do is complain. all i'm saying is if they want to leave, they can leave, john. they can leave. >> they can leave. welcome back to "hardball." the president has said multiple times over the past couple of days that if the freshman democratic congresswomen don't like america, they should leave it. however, as a presidential candidate himself, he campaigned to what a mess the country is in. let's watch him knocking america. >> folks, we're living in a

third world country. the american dream is dead. >> our country is a mess. our infrastructure is falling apart. >> everybody knows what a mess our country is in. >> we are a mess. >> our country is a mess. >> we got a mess of a country. >> they were saying the other day trump is angry. of course i'm angry. i want to be angry. who's not angry? they wanted me to say no, i'm really not angry. i'm so happy with the way things -- the country is a mess. i am angry. >> well, be a with me are michelle goldberg, shermichael singleton and eric dyson. every time he says something biblical he puts his hands up. i watched that little hand. he makes the little circle with the three fingers in the air and then you speak the divine truth. there he was trashing the country again and again to get elected. now anyone who dare speaks that way against our country should go home to wherever their

grandparents came from. >> look, i think it's always a mistake to look for consistency in trump says. the consistency is white nationalism. when america had an african american president, then the country was in trump's estimation by definition degraded and worthy of scorn. right now he conflates himself with the country and sees them both as worthy of not just respect, but kind of unquestioning deference. and so he -- when he runs down american cities, which he does not just when he was running for president. he continues to do it as president, to say the most despicable things about the cities of the country that he purports to lead. but it's because he kind of writes off certain people in certain regions as being outside of the real america. >> let me talk to you, professor, about this race thing in big cities. now i grew up in a big city, but not really downtown. but a city with high school kids, you know. there is neighborhood fights, the italian neighborhoods, the

black neighborhoods. that all went on. there was rivalry. >> right. >> and then there were also nicknames that weren't so nice. does trump come from that? i somehow get the sense he is sort of from that urban hostility from maybe 50 years ago. >> well, there is no question about that. but when you look at his lineage, look at his father, look at the set of ideas he inherited, look at the unconscionable privilege. >> tell us about that. >> well, keeping black people out of your apartment buildings, red lining, understanding the degree to which black people must be cordoned off, and that real estate must be the preserve of those who are privileged and is transmitted according to race and not according to money. 10 the reality is that donald trump has inherited a vocabulary of racial animus and hostility that he instinctively now passes along to the country. and so when you think about logic, you know, michelle goldberg's point there is at the root of all of this is the understanding that white

supremacy continues to be contagious and radioactive to others, and yet that is the bellwether for donald trump presidency, and he continues to ring that tone so to speak in ways that people hear. >> he reminds me of a guy driving a car through tough traffic on a city on a 5-degree day. he is throwing the anger and the slur out. it's all going to solve his problem, like that yelling out the window at the other car is somehow going to make the world better. and he is president. he is not driving a cab. >> i don't think donald trump has ever really appreciated the idea that when you're president, you're president for everyone. not a third of the country, not a quarter of the country, not just the folks who voted for you, but every single person. and look, i want to remind people of the politics of this, chris. donald trump won pennsylvania by just 44,000 votes. he won michigan by just 10,000 votes. he won wisconsin by just 22,000 votes. he won florida by 100,000 votes, which is 1.2%. this notion that donald trump is

automatically going to be reelected in 2020, i'm not certain of that. what existed in 2016 is not necessarily going to exist in 2020. and what's so incoherent -- >> i want you to answer these two questions. two factors will change by 2020. one is hillary clinton won't be running. >> exactly. >> she had some negative vote there because of her long career. second, the african american vote fell off. >> it did. >> remember philadelphia and we had frank rizzo? the largest black registration ever because there is a reason to get out there and vote. he wasn't feedle lee dumb and feedle lee dee. he was the enemy. >> i am 90% sure it was. when donald trump asked that question what in the hell do you have to lose, i think a lot of african americans realize we have a whole lot to lose. and i think whomever the democratic nominee will be, black voters will turn out significantly, including hispanic voters will turn out significantly. and that does not benefit donald trump. >> let me go to michelle. your thoughts, michelle.

voters are negative in many ways. they'll get out of the street and go vote on a rainy day or snowy day because they don't like somebody. >> well, that's true. i think there is no question in my mind that donald trump is going to lose the popular vote in 2020. i think the only question is -- >> what about the states that shermichael mentioned, though? they're the critical states? >> right. i very much hope he is right. i think he is probably right, but i don't think anybody should be complacent about donald trump's inevitable loss because i think that one thing we're learning is that there is a fair amount of white people who won't admit to liking what donald trump is selling, but in the privacy of the voting booths, that's where they cast their lot. >> i think that's true. i also think there have r some people who don't like thinking they're racist too. >> but tom bradley effect, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm down with a, that i'm down with that. you go in the voting booth -- >> explain the tom bradley

effect. >> tom bradley was the black mayor of los angeles running for governor, polling way ahead. people thought he would almost waltz into the governorship, and then when people got into the voting booth, their rhetoric didn't match their action. >> a guy they never heard of. i thought that was going to happen, professor, too, in ' '30 -- 08. house minority leader whip steve scalise said today when obama was president, republicans didn't disrespect the office of the presidency. let's listen to that. >> we had disagreements with a lot of barack obama's policies, but we never disrespected the office. we expressed our disagreements in a respectful way. but what they continue to do to go after him personally, to call for impeachment of the president from day one. >> well, as "the washington post" pointed out today, there is plenty of tape out there that dispute's scalise's kind argument about his party. let's watch. >> the reforms i'm proposing

would not apply to those who are here illegal. >> is the time that we're going to send mr. obama home to kenya or wherever it is. we're going to do it. >> i don't want to even have to be associated with him. it's like touching a tar baby and you get -- you're stuck and you're part of the problem now. >> that's unbelievable. that was congressman lamborn who did finally apologize for that. what do you think, the republicans are clean on this, that they have never attacked the president? >> hell no, they're not clean, chris. excuse my language. this really angers me. i'm a conservative, but there was a huge sense of pride for me to see barack obama get elected. i remember i was a student in high school, and i called the superintendent of my district in the suburb outside of dallas to demand that we get a school bus so that the boys of my high school could go and see president obama speak. didn't care about the politics. it was just amazing for me as a young black kid to say oh my god, look at this black guy. he is the president. so you have republicans sitting there saying they never -- they

disrespected president obama every step of the way. you don't have to like the policies, but why in the hell do you have to disrespect the man merely because of how he looked? how he looked. >> i think that's -- but see, this is what donald trump has tapped in to, right? that extra rationalnal, that irrational stuff down there. but it's clearly explained. it's the deep pathology of white supremacy and racism and the hatred of things that are not white. look at the congresswomen who are now being battered by donald trump, battered into glory to a certain degree, but also seen as a kind of pinata, right, as a kind of whipping boy, lashing out against them. >> if you can't remember what happened the last presidency, you're not going to remember slavery and jim crow. and they have memories of nets. >> michelle goldberg, thank you so much from "the new york times." i read you regularly, as i should. shermichael singleton and michael eric dyson.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump was elected by

embracing a hardline immigration policy of course, promoting a muslim ban, of course, and unabashedly using racially tinged language, of course. an as president he refused to condemn a neo-nazi rally, of course, in charlottesville. sunday's racist tweets by him directed at four minority congresswomen shows he is willing to use the same rhetoric to solidify his base. his remarks were condemned by some of the country's major newspapers from florida to pittsburgh, even in taupe peek car, kansas. the st. louis post dispatch wrote that the president's quotes, these are quotes, racist rant crossed a new line. the minneapolis star tribune wrote the president was tapping into, quote, his tool kit of racism. those were the words, by attacking the congresswoman. the charlotte observer asked the words are you okay with a racist president? i'm joined by elise jordan, former aid to george w. bush white house and a contributor to "time" magazine and joel payne, democratic strategist. elise, it's interesting.

you know the newspaper world, are very careful about language that's personal and is a little too ethnic. now we have nbc news i believe believes that the language by the president is in fact racist, is willing to use the word. all these newspapers. this is not fake news. this is an alignment of newspaper editors, all in their separate souls that this is unamerican and unacceptable language by a president. your thoughts? >> you look at the government's handbook on what constitutes racism and literally telling someone to, quote, go back to their country is an example given. of course this is racism. newspapers and those of news the media need to call this what it is, and donald trump made a racist statement, and there is no need to parse words when it comes down who to what he actually said. >> and i think -- i think, joe, when you tell people of color to go back to where they came, from it's single them out. we've had pretty nativist

comments by people during world war i. wilson came out and said if you're from germany go, back with your wooden shoes. when you say only to four people of color, you're making a statement. >> it's personal. my great grandfather was a share cropper, okay? my grandfather moved our family north during the great migration. we know what that means. we know exactly what the president is talking about when he is using that rhetoric. the president is saying the quiet part out loud. this is the stuff in the past that would have been pushed back to the back benchers, to the guys that they didn't let in the front of the or the women that they didn't let in the front of the house of representatives or the senate. they didn't let them talk. donald trump has now represented that person in the white house. he's the guy at the end of the bar that everybody told to shut up at the end of the night. >> he is the joe wilson? >> he is the joe wilson. they elected joe wilson. they elected steve king president. >> why? >> because they wanted to tap into this to turn up their base, to turn this base red hot. that's actually trump's strategy here by the way. >> why do you want turn on 37%

of the public, the red hot trump people when 37% will lose the general election? >> it's the only way he can lose. >> how do you win with 37%? >> because what he is going to do is tear down the other side. he is going to tear down harris, warren. >> that's fair. that's just rough politics. >> yeah, yeah. but he is going to tear them down and he is going to make the moderates do jump ball at the end of the day. >> you're the pro on this politics thing here. how you make 37 51 or even close enough to 50 to take the electoral college? >> if you have voters in wisconsin and pennsylvania and michigan staying out and they aren't energized again you repeat somewhat the model that happened in 2016, and that would be how trump secures a victory. at this point, though -- >> that's with hillary helping. come on, elise. wait a minute. let's talk politics. skip that for three seconds. the politics of '16 was a lot of african americans stayed home because they weren't as energized as they were for barack obama. it makes perfect sense historically. the other problem is a lot of people were tired of the

clintons after 20 years and hillary clinton took the brunt of that. she took the brunt for her husband and everything else. we all know that. >> she was the receptacle of negative polarization in that election. is donald trump going to be that vehicle in 2020? as of now, it does seem like the democratic base is certainly motivated and primed to come out. you look at what happened in 2018 and how their turnout ballooned. certainly republicans had pretty strong turnout. but democrats widely surpassed it. so they're on good footing if they keep their people motivated and excited. >> yeah, my point was look, i worked on hillary campaign. i actually did african american ad outreach. and what we found was we wanted to tie barack obama to hillary clinton. that didn't work because obama's coattails weren't long enough to drag hillary across the finish line. what we found is voters felt apathetic because the obama, you know, layover effect was really putting a drag on democratic turnout. >> explain the language.

>> what that means is that enough democrats were not excited about turning out. it could have been hillary clinton. frankly, it really could have been anybody that was not an african american. i think that was going to happen to anybody and i think unfortunately it happened to hillary clinton. >> i knew there was some anti-hillary attitude in the suburbs, but in big city, lack of turnout was a lack of gung o gung-ho. >> there was strategic mistakes as well which we'll acknowledge. >> thank you, elise jordan, joel payne. the democrats most important issue to them. the sharp divide between two of the major candidates is now out in the open. obama -- i made a mistake. biden calling him obama. he wants to keep a government option. bernie wants government-run health care. stick around. you're watching "hardball." ardb. ♪ -i'm sorry? -what teach here isn't telling you is that snapshot rewards safe drivers with discounts on car insurance. -what? ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." tonight a new poll in one of the 2020 battleground states is showing a tighter race among the

top democratic contenders. the cnn/university of new hampshire poll shows joe biden, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders topping the list as the nearly two dozen candidates fight it out for the nomination. the battle over health care remains one of the top issues for everyone, especially in the democratic party. two of the front-runner, biden and sanders, have not kicked off -- the first high profile fight that's going on right now on the issue, with biden releasing his proposal to keep and expand the affordable care act, the aca, and sanders pushing for medicare for all or actually government-run health care, would basically eliminate anybody's chance of buying insurance, at least full buy insurance. let's watch. >> does your health care plan go far enough for a party that supports predominantly medicare for all? >> i think so. >> it's pretty conservative. >> well, look, i don't think it's conservative at all. it will pick up the vast majority of almost 100% of the american people. it is available immediately and

be able to be moved, we can pass it. it costs a lot of money. it costs $750 billion, not $3 trillion. kit be done quickly, and it will in fact allow people to make the choice of staying on their own, their employer-based plan if they like it better or joining this plan. >> senator sanders responded today to biden's criticism that sanders' medicare for all plan is too risky and could cause people to lose coverage. >> i like joe, and i hope we will have this debate, you know. but when joe says something to the effect that medicare for seniors will end? that just obviously absurd situation. >> and according to a recent poll, voters backed the idea of a government-run health care system. more on that next, and i'm going to speak with one of the 2020 democratic candidates for president, montana governor steve bullock. you're watching "hardball." ing eh, it just feels too complicated, you know? well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that.

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we carry flowers that signifyn why we want to end the disease. and we walk so that one day, there will be a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor. join the fight at alz.org/walk. welcome back to "hardball." as the battle lines are forming over health care among the democratic presidential candidates, a recent poll is showing a near split by registered voters over which health care system they'd prefer. according to "the washington post"/abc poll just out, among all registered voter, 49% prefer a government-run health care system like the one senator sanders is proposing with 44% sticking with the affordable care act in place where vice president biden was in the house -- in the white house, rather. well can assume only democratic registered voters.

the numbers would be much higher for the universal health care or the government-run option. i'm joined by governor steve bullock of montana. i've been watching you. i feel like robert de niro. i've been watching you. i watch you and you're now finally in the race, because i think you're going to be a challenge because you've got executive ability. you ran a state. you're not some gadfly. >> i won in a state where trump won. >> yeah. but you're a governor. people will vote for a relatively liberal governor, but they're not going to vote for a democrat. europe not going to run for the senate, for example, because you can't win. >> i'm not going run for senate. >> you can't win. >> i think i could probably run. >> really? some of you guys are running for president when everybody know s buttigieg is going to be senator from indiana. it's a conservative state. >> we have a whole bunch of good folks. democrats are going to be running against senator danes. >> would tulsi gabbard be elected senator of hawaii? no. >> i won in montana in 2016.

donald trump took montana by 20. i won by 4. 25 to 30% of my voters voted for donald trump. >> why did they vote for a democrat, you? >> i think they knew i might disagree on some issues, but i'd be fighting for them. i'm fighting for the better economic gains. and i think that folks even though as a democrat, and we're kind of a purple state, that they knew that everybody day i'm recognizing that not everybody is liming up that ladder, having that fair shot for opportunity and i'd be working for them to do that. >> how do you deal with a party that on so many issues seems to lean left? i was watching the very first debate. i thought it was exciting. everybody has their hands up. why are they flapping their hands up so fast. if you get in the country without documentation, immediate health care. how about thinking a couple of seconds? >> look, we've got to reform our immigration system. in an area like that or decriminalizing border entry, those are areas where i don't think it's the best way to

actually fix the immigration system. >> and that will sell with the party? >> i think it will. the biggest problem right now for from my perspective with overall immigration system, we need to change some things, but it's donald trump. he is the one that is both ripping families and ripping our country apart. >> why isn't biden doing better? >> i think, you know -- >> is he too old? >> that's -- at the end of the day, chris, that's up to the voters. >> but what's up to you? you're rung against him. is he too old? >> i think i have something to offer that is unique. >> why can't you answer this question? why is it a problem? >> what, as far as he is too old? >> he is 84 years old as president? >> what do i don't think? >> my job is different. following the president's attacks on the four freshmen, the senator tweeted montanans are tired of listening to anti-american, anti-semite radical democrats trash our country and our ideals. this is america.

we're the greatest country in the world. i stand with donald trump. what do you think of your senator? >> i think both -- look, in that tweet,ers that not what montanans are. and to further divide us? i don't get elected by trashing every single republican, nor should i? i work with those. >> i'm sorry to kid around with you this. is important. long ago i thought you were the best bet because i think people want an executive and they want somebody who is sort of center left, moderate, montana. so make your pitch. president of the united states. why you? >> the economy is not working for most folks. they look to the political system for relief. it's captured by the money. i'm the only one in this field that won in a trump state. if queer going to win we not only have to bring out our base but bring back places like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. i can do that. 25 to 30% of my voters voted for donald trump. i think people are also hungry to believe the government can work. the whole time i with us in office had a majority republican legislature. even with that legislature,

we've been able to get good things done like expanding health care to 100,000 montanans, record investments in education, freezing college tuition, kicking dark money out of our elections. >> you're great on that. boy, if you only get that done, watch that document risks and we need to do that. >> getting rid of dark money, the root of so much evil in politics. thank you so much, governor. >> thanks for having me, chris. >> and steve bullock of montana, a great state. up next, the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 mission to the moon, and one president's historic vision. you're watching "hardball." we call it the mother standard of care. it's how we care for our cancer patients-

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when president kennedy was killed, his widow jackie sought two monuments to his honor. first there was the eternal flame guarding his grave at arlington cemetery. the second was her husband's initials on a tiny corner of a giant saturn rocket heading for launch where no one would see it. it was the same rocket that would carry the apollo program

six years later to the moon. apollo 11 would take three astronauts, armstrong, buzz aldrin and michael collins all to the moon, all because kennedy had set it as an american goal. >> we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard. because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we're willing to accept, one we are willing to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others too. >> well, today july 16th is the 50th anniversary of the launch of apollo 11, a needed reminder of what we americans can do when we put our heads together. >> liftoff. we have a liftoff! 32 minutes past the hour. liftoff on apollo 11. >> i listened to the three astronauts take off from the lunar surface in 1969, worrying

like the rest of the world if our astronauts would make it back to earth. as a peace corps volunteer in africa thousands of miles from home, i had only a short wave radio and of course the shared hope of mankind. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the democratic congresswomen should leave if they're not happy. where should they go? >> it's up to them. >> the president stands by his racist remarks. >> how shameful to hear him continue to defend those offensive words. >> as democrats use their power to condemn the president. >> every single member of this institution, democratic and republican, should join us in condemning the president's racist tweets. >> tonight, as frustration boils over -- >> i abandon the chair. >> and white house spin continues -- >> what's your ethnicity? >> why is that le