i'll be back here with you tomorrow morning on msnbc bright and early from reporting inside and outside the rayburn office building room 2141, where everyone is gearing up for this hearing. join us for "morning joe" starting at 6:00 a.m. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. the american connection. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. 13 hours from now, the house judiciary and the intelligence committees will gather on capitol hill to question former special counsel robert mueller for the first time. my favorite question came just hours ago from james comey, the former fbi director to my colleague nicolle wallace. it's the question he said that

started the whole investigation in the first place, was there an american connection to russia's interference in the 2016 election? democrats promised to bring the mueller report to life tomorrow. nbc news reports their intention is to help make more swing voters aware that the mueller report, far from exonerating trump, contains significant evidence of wrongdoing. to prepare, committee democrats have held mock session, running through practice questions and fine-tuning them to be as pointed and inductabuinducun du possible. nancy pelosi has distributed to her caucus detailing the most damaging findings to mueller's report. in an unexpected twist, the former special counsel requested that he be joined at the hearing side by side with his long-time aide, a move that's already eliciting protests from republicans. well, this comes after the justice department advised the

former special counsel to, quote, remain within the boundaries of your public report. it still prompted house judiciary chairman jerry nadler to accuse the administration of cover-up. >> i don't think it's much of an impediment simply because bob mueller had indicated repeatedly he was going to do exactly that. i think it's incredibly arrogant of the department to try to instruct him in what to say as part of the ongoing cover-up by the administration to keep information away from the american people. but i think that it's not going to have a real impact. >> must he comply with that letter? >> no, he does not have to comply with that letter. >> a good many have said that mueller doesn't need to go beyond his report because the report itself is damning enough. it shows that trump welcomed and even encouraged russian interference in the u.s. election, and he took repeated steps to impede the investigation into his own actions. robert mueller has implied the

president committed obstruction of justice. here goes. >> we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> i'm joined now by natasha bertrand of politico and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. natasha, that's the big question, the american connection. i want to start with that does the mueller report show that trump and his people were the american connection to the russian interference in the 2016 election? >> oh, absolutely. there were numerous instances outlined in the report in volume 1 that didn't necessarily rise to the level of a criminal conspiracy in the legal sense, but if you wanted to use the term collusion, which of course mueller did not actually use in his report you could feasibly use that for example, we have the president and then candidate trump at the time being receptive to campaign aides pitch to make overtures with the russians that was george papadopoulos. you have the russians previewing for campaign the emails they were going release about hillary clinton. you have paul manafort, the campaign chairman sharing internal campaign polling data

with a suspected russian spy, konstantin kilimnik. and the trump tower meeting in which they were receptive to dirt about hillary clinton which they say was not useful, but again they were ultimately willing to engage with the russian on. and then you have donald trump calling on the russians to hack hillary clinton in july of 2016, sand the russians then following his orders, essentially. and that's what mueller said in his report, that just hours after he gave that speech, the russians tried for the first time to hack hillary clinton directly. so there are just so many instances of this. and that's just during the campaign. i mean, during the transition, there was michael flynn talking to sergei kiy kislyak. there is so much here that the american people really need to absorb so we can't let it happen again in 2020. >> you know, not to overflatter that, but that presentation was excellent from natasha. i just wonder, do you know knowing bob mueller, does he

have the stamina to do what we just heard? can he run through it as a set of episodes that adds up to playing ball with the russians and screwing with our presidential election? can he do it? >> he makes a legal judgment, not a political one. but i think if he is asked direct questions, leading questions, perhaps asked to read from the report, that this narrative comes through. and perhaps even more importantly, mueller when he issues his summary says this is the evidence that i had available, that people lied to us. people withheld evidence. people destroyed evidence. and if we had been able to obtain that evidence, we might have seen this in a different light. that will be an interesting conclusion for the members to elicit from mueller tomorrow. a bifocal situation. the political thing that would drive a person who cared about this thinking, the whole question to the russian, were the americans working with foreigners to change the results

of an election? were they working with our rivals in the world? they're not our friends. and if they did that's a political question the guy in erie or allentown, the regular person, that's historically wrong. we don't want our candidates playing with foreigners when it comes to winning an election. now let's get to the legal question of obstruction of justice, which i think is the legal question. lawmakers will ask mueller to delve into the 11 obstructive acts that he found in his report that the president carried out, many of which were intended to prevent further scrutiny of trump's own actions, in other words, he covered it up. they include trump's attempt to halt the investigation of michael flynn. trump that's pretty obstructive. trump's order to have the special counsel removed for scrutinizing his conduct for possible obstruction. trump's attempt to pressure jeff sessions to reverse his recusal and stop the investigation of

his campaign. finally, trump's efforts to stop pall and michael cohen from cooperating with the governor. joyce, anybody should be able to recognize, because going back to nixon, obstruction of justice is killing the case. in nixon's case, getting the fbi off the case by saying it was a cia matter. in this case, trying to fire the prosecutor. >> and there clearly is obstruction here. at least several of the events mueller detailed, all of the elements a prosecutor would need to prosecute are established. and why obstruction matters so much here is that there is obviously a lot of angst in the campaign. and on behalf of this president. they didn't know whether they had committed crimes or not, so they were doing everything that they could to cover up. we still see some evidence of cover-up. and that's why obstruction is an important crime to prosecute. >> well, let's go to this. these are the big questions we worked on today we think should be asked in a logic progression. the question democrats are expected to put to mueller tomorrow are yes or. no these are yes or no

questions. and why the way, if you want a yes or no, you say did you, do you. you guys know this stuff. did you find no collusion and no obstruction? did you clear him? that's what trump said the report did. it's a double negative, and he is loving it. >> and i think that's the narrative that mueller really needs to counteract here which the president because he had that head start given to him by bill barr before the report actually came out has been able to exploit. he's repeated this mantra over and over again, no obstruction, no collusion to the point where smart people who have followed this for a long time have actually repeated that as well. so i think that mueller is going to have to say look, i didn't define any of this in those terms. we did not find enough evidence to charge a conspiracy. we found numerous, over 100 contacts between the campaign and russia, numerous instances of obstruction of justice. so the narrative that bill barr and donald trump have put out is incorrect. >> this double negative, i did not find that he did not do it. i did not find that he did not do it.

it's crazy talk. it's not how we operate. we deal in declarative sentence, yes or no. so tomorrow is the chance to clear it up. here are some other questions. would trump have been charged, mr. director, if he was a private citizen? what he going to say? >> it will be hard to pry that answer out of him. but if people stay at him on that, the answer has to be yes. if this conduct was committed by someone who wasn't protected by the olc memo and perhaps by the constitution, they would have a been charged. >> so let's play -- you're the journalist here. how will he get out of that? because will he say i can't answer that because that would be -- serve to indict him now, what i can't do in the report? and i don't want to accuse if i don't indict him because that wouldn't be fair because he can't defend himself. this is a catch 22. >> one of the things he is going to have to do -- the democrats have going to have to say is x a crime? yes or no. did the president do x? and then the american people watching are going to have to connect the dots for themselves. >> like set up a silogism.

>> what are the elements of conspiracy. did the president do x? do y? >> a "hardball" headline? >> the problem is these aren't easy concepts. they're not bumper stickers. it's so easy to say no obstruction, no collusion. to talk about what's in the mueller report is more difficult. >> thank you, both, natasha and joyce. joining me is ted lieu of california who is on the district. here is a question for tomorrow, a romantic question, okay. i'm in the business of looking for heroes. will there be one tomorrow? will the american people walk away from watching seven hours in the morning and say you know what? i'm happy about the republic because i found a hero. will they? >> thank you, chris, for that question. if you have read the mueller report or followed these issues, you won't be very surprised tomorrow. but if you have not read the report, your mind might be money

because going to describe facts that many people have not heard of because they're getting lies from donald trump and from bill barr. so i think it depends on what knowledge you have coming into this hearing. >> well, while a president can't be accused of a crime while in office, a legion of prosecutors have said these offenses committed by the president had been committed by any other human in this country geographically, he'd be facing multiple felony counts. and to that point, trump bragged today, i can't believe he said this, he can do anything he wants. listen to this, congressman. >> i have an article 2 where i have the right to do whatever i want as president, but i don't even talk about that. because they did a report and there was no obstruction. >> i can do anything i want, according to article 2 of the constitution. trump's assertion he can do whatever he wants is eerily similar to the words of another american president. here is richard nixon. >> when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.

>> by definition? >> exactly. >> what do we make of that, congressman? you're on the judiciary committee. the president says anything he does is not obstruction of justice because he's head of the executive branch, entitled by that branch, by the constitutional article, 2, to do whatever he wants. that's his reading. >> history repeats itself. donald trump is simply wrong. the whole lesson on watergate is that no one is above the law, not even the president of the united states. and tomorrow the house judiciary committee is going to go very methodically over the incidents of obstruction of justice. there is at least five of them. and after the hearing, the american people are going to know that we have a felony sitting in the white house. >> are you confident of mr. mueller's performance qualities? he's got the script. its report. the mueller report is his script. how does he bring that script alive in a way that the script has in itself? it hasn't worked. we're at 20% of the country who want impeachment. that report is a lot stronger than that.

>> we're going to help special counsel mueller get as narrowed out, help him get the facts out. i think a lot of people in america may not even know that the president directed former white house counsel don mcgahn to fire special counsel mueller, that he then directed mcgahn to cover it up and create a fake document. and when that didn't work, he directed corey lewandowski to tell jeff sessions to limit the investigation so it's no longer centered on donald trump. there are multiple occasions of obstruction of justice that many americans will be hearing for if first time tomorrow. >> do you believe that donald trump and his people were the american connection to the russian effort to screw with our elections in 2016, the american connection? >> so what's going to come tomorrow out of this hearing and the hearing with intel are three main goals. first, that the russians attacked american elections 2016. second, that the trump campaign embraced that interference, gave them internal polling data, knew interference was going to help out on trump. and third, the president

committed multiple acts of the crime of obstruction of justice to interfere with that investigation into the interference. >> well, break a leg tomorrow, you and the other members. i hope you get to the truth. i hope as hell the american people hear all that's in that report tomorrow night because it will be good for the history of our country going forward, not just looking backward. thank you so much, u.s. congressman ted lieu of california, member of the house judiciary committee which will be the first to hear the questioning or do the questioning of mr. mueller. right now trump's allies are plotting how to hijack tomorrow's mueller hearings. we know that's coming so, coming up, the stunts they're likely to pull. and how the president will respond to all of it, because he is going to be waveling every minute of this, you better believe it. plus, trump keeps up his attack on the four freshmen congresswomen, today calling rashida tlaib vicious and a crazed lunatic. he is stoking his base with these attacks, and there is evidence it's working. journalist jemele hill joins us to talk about that.

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welcome back to "hardball." while democrats will use tomorrow's hearings with former special counsel robert mueller to illuminate the findings of his russia report to televise it that. >> only control half the discussion, five minutes on, five minutes off. you can expect this to be an adversarial hearing with republicans on the house and judiciary committee first trying to hijack the conversation ever chance they get. it's going to be like a basketball game. each side gets the ball, back and forth. nbc's reporting that republicans plan to spend their half of the two hearings attacking the very premise of the investigation and highlighting what they and their base have come to believe without evidence is fbi misconduct at the heart of the probe. here is how the ranking republican on the judiciary committee is framing it. o. >> remember, the mueller report is a one-sided report that has not been questioned from the other side. this is our chance to do that.

>> mueller's report of course is not one-side but the process of a veteran prosecutor committed to the rule of law. and while republicans cover for the president, nbc news has learned the white house and the president's campaign without a coordinated attack to counter according to multiple officials involved with the discussion. but that said, president trump who said he might watch some of the hearings, you betcha', has already launched a rebuttal, tweeting out his usual criticism of mueller and the democrats. today he accused democrats of suffering from trump derangement syndrome. for more, i'm joined by jonathan swan for axios and michael steele, former chair of the republican national committee. do the republicans have a coordinated campaign to bring down mueller and bring downhill and dump on bill clinton and obama? what's the plan? >> all of the above. this is a rehashing of all the things that they were trying to get in on going back to nunez and the white house. >> the midnight raid? >> the midnight raid.

this is the culmination of all that, because this is the last of the front lines that can be built to stop any encroachment into the narrative that was affirmed and really established by barr when he got out in front. so now this wraps around the barr conversation with the american people when the report came out. it reiterates what the president has been saying from the beginning, there is no collusion, no corruption, et cetera, and look for them to go at mueller as if he is the worst democrat on the planet. >> okay, from 8:30 in the morning to 2:30 in the afternoon with the two committees. this is an early game, an early game tomorrow. it's going to be catching all the newspapers through the first editions the next day. it's going to catch all the nightly news here, the evening news, the world news. all the people that pay any attention to television. >> right. >> even real-time or later in day or the next day or online or streaming, anybody that wants to pay attention, will it work for the democrats? what is your sense? do they got a spectacular message they can get across with mueller or not? >> i think that it could easily

backfire on democrats. they've said to us on the record we've done a lot of reporting on what's going to happen with this committee. one of the members, jackie speier said that she wants to get robert mueller to read aloud sections of his report so that the public can see it. i mean, this could easily backfire. if he stays within the four corners of the report and doesn't give them that sound bite that they want to stoke impeachment, i think it could easily backfire. >> what about the dirt, the dirt they want to throw into the machine? >> you're talking about the republicans? >> i have a feeling they're going go after peter strzok and his love letters to lisa page because that shows hr misbehavior. but then they say to robert mueller, why you treating this like an hr matter when they are love birded here. do you find a democratic conspiracy here or did you not? and then say i didn't, i didn't try to find if there was a conspiracy, and then they nail him. >> well, i can tell you, we've been talking to them. and as for -- >> you've been talking to. >> republicans, oh, heck, yeah,

for the last week. so you talk about whether it's coordinated. i just called matt gaetz on the judiciary committee. he is one of the people you should watch particularly aggressive. >> isn't he the guy who said the goal tomorrow is to get the president reelect? >> yes. i called him a couple of hours ago, and he said i can't talk. i'm in jim jordan's question preparing questions. >> and jim jordan is another red hot. >> he is another one to watch. they're going ask one of the questions we've told people are going ask is when did you figure out that he wasn't a manchurian candidate hi, wasn't part of a conspiracy. >> right. and the other ones they're going ask absolutely about peter strzok and lisa page. i suspect they're also going to try and press mueller based on what we've been told on how much of the report he personally wrote, and they're going to try to pin a lot of the report on andrew weissmann. >> tell me about him. >> andrew weissmann, the reason they like talking about him is because he was in hillary clinton's victory party in 2016. so he is someone that they like to paint as a democrat. >> but she didn't win in 2016. >> well, they still had a party. >> that's irrelevant.

so he's one of the, quote, 18 democrats that -- >> 17 angry democrats. >> and also looking to avoid the comeyification of his testimony. what he says to your point about staying in the four corners of what he has already pointed out, he doesn't want this to be politicized which is kind of laughable at this point, but he is an honorable man in that regard. he will not i think take lightly to them coming after the institution of the fbi,ably be a part of this as well when they go at strzok and others. but i think he is trying to avoid this situation where he can be perceived to come off like comey, putting the fickle finger of fate if you will one way or the oirks i don't think the republicans will be like one of the people waving the stuff during the nba game, make the foul shot just to screw it up. all eyes will be on tom of the

spetts a most ardent supporters will be on louie gohmert and gaetz and devin nunes. let's watch. >> the whole report is a joke. and, you know, look. i know there was no collusion, and i know there was no obstruction. so in that sense, it was fine. however, there shouldn't -- this whole investigation was an obstruction of justice trap. it was a trap. and i hope people understand why. mueller, when he walked in the door knew there was no evidence of collusion and conspiracy. >> so we want to know when robert mueller found out there wasn't collusion, and we're going expose the bias as well. >> he hired people that he knew hated the president. so from day one, it was clear this was not a guy that was on a mission for justice. it was a guy on a mission for revenge. >> that's louie gohmert. are they going to swing for the fences or go for singles?

are republicans going to try to take this all the way back to hillary and say she is the one who hired christopher steele, that she put this all together and say it's all a witch hunt created by the democrats, or are they simply going to try to deflect and mess up the coherence of the day? >> they're not all the same. so i think that you'll see the most aggressive questioning from matt gaetz, jim jordan. >> and their goal will be? >> the origins of the investigation and to question the people who worked on the investigation and all the things that we've just been talking about. i do not expect, though, that there has been complete coordination across both committees. i mean, sean hannity tonight on his show later tonight is going to suggest questions. so i'll be curious to see how many of those questions -- >> the box office question. what will be scripted tomorrow during the hearings by the republican member of the committees? they're both minority members. they don't have the control of the gavel, but they get half the time. what show will they be putting on for fox, the show that fox can then put on for four or five

hours tomorrow night? what are they going to sell? >> they're going to sell the president's narrative. there is no doubt about that, chris. this is all about -- and i think as you already mentioned, the goal is to make this conversation tomorrow a part of the reelection effort. that's going to play into what you will see on fox. >> against the deep state? >> against the deep state. and a president who has stood strong and has been fighting against all of this from the beginning. >> will the president be jack nicholson in batman? will he be the joke they're jumps in during the hearings tomorrow and puts out stuff during the show? will he start putting out tweets during it to compete in realtime or wait until the end? >> i would be shocked if he waited, chris. the morning hearing is almost designed for executive time. >> yeah. the schedule is there. >> he doesn't leave the residence until 11:00 usually. >> he is only having lunch with mike pence. he can delay that, i think. >> i would be surprised. >> what do you make of his

attempt to intimidate mueller almost like pantangelo in "godfather 2." you better not go beyond your brief. pretty strong words. >> in complete keeping with literally erything he said since the beginning of this investigation. am i shocked he is doing it? no. >> tomorrow night, tomorrow night. when this is all over and all the nightly news programs and rachel is finished and all the way through to brian midnight tomorrow night, will it look more likely there is an impeachment or not? >> again, it depends what happen. >> come on. a prediction. >> chris, that depends on me knowing -- i think only if he screws up, frankly. only if mueller screws up. if he stays completely disciplined, i don't think it changes the calculus. >> no. this is total win for trump. he's already won. >> so in the beginning was the words. all we're going get is the words. >> you're going to get the word. and that's going to be the play. i just don't see -- >> but to --

>> i'm hopeful that good question will get a good answer tomorrow and that we will get -- we will have a perry mason moment. we have seven hours to get it. >> they're desperate to impeach him and roughly 90 of them who want to. >> let me ask an easier question. >> yes. >> because you're stymieing me. will nancy pelosi look right at midnight tomorrow night about her resistance to impeachment? >> you do that one. kohl on. >> will she look right? >> will she look smarter than the average bear? >> i think she will. it will be borne out that that impeachment was a trap. >> you go along with that? >> sure. thank you. i don't know. i think this thing is stirring up. i think the democratic progressive left wants action and they're going to want more action tomorrow night because all day this will stir the juices. thank you, jonathan swan, both sides riling up. thank you, michael steele. more on the big challenge with robert mueller from me actually. trump is not letting up to make four congresswomen of color the

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in our books, nothing can compare. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. welcome back to "hardball." president trump continues to escalate his attacks on four progressive congresswomen now for the tenth straight day. today he tweeted, "gee, let's

impeach the president. the squad and other dems suffer from derangement syndrome. crazy." he later wrote of the state ilhan omar represents, quote, and the fact that minnesota's having its best economic year ever, he will win this state. aoc plus three are a nightmare for america. well, the president renewed his attacks this afternoon, addressing a gathering of young conservatives. >> this is what we're up against. you have some of that now. the democrats, i guess, are forced to embrace her, and i call it aoc plus three. aoc plus three. what's going on with that party having to embrace them and your other friend from an incredible stake, right? a stake that i'm going win. minnesota, you know that one. this is not what we want representing us, i don't think. and i think it's why we're going have a tremendous victory in

2020. these people. just call her cortez, because i don't have time to call her by the whole name. it's too long. she called our country and our people garbage. she said garbage. that's worse than deplorable. remember deplorable? yes, you do. >> well, in fact, congresswomen alexandria ocasio-cortez did not use the term garbage to refer to either the country or to the american people. here what's she said and watch, listen close. >> we've strayed so far away from what has really made us powerful and just and good and equitable and productive. and so i think all of these things sound radical compared to where we are, but where we are is not a good thing. and this idea of like 10% better from garbage shouldn't be what we settle for. >> meanwhile, "the new york

times" reported on voters in port huron, michigan, where trump's continued attacks may be actually helping him. according to "the times," many reporters in this city on lake huron are embracing his america, love it or leave it message, saying they do not see it as racist. and though they dismissed mr. trump's twitter as excessive or juvenile, they voice strong support for his reelection. and express their own misgivings about those four women. what will the president's divisive words have on the rest of the country? jemele hill joins us next. you're watching "hardball." with, why fingerstick when you can scan? with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump is pressing on with his attacks on the four freshmen congresswomen of color, suggesting they're unpatriotic and suggesting they should leave the country if they don't like it. "the new york times" reports on one area in michigan where his

love it or leave it message is boosting his support among core supporters. today he gave a clear indication he is hoping that message will stick in a state he won by fewer than 11,000 votes in 2016 by renewing his attack on michigan congresswomen rashida tlaib. here he goes. >> i watched just this morning this tlaib, tlaib. from michigan, right? it's a great state. we won michigan. there is no way she stands for the values of the people of michigan, but i watched her this morning. she's vicious. she's like a crazed lunatic. >> well, the democratic presidential candidates will get their chance to speak to michigan voters during the second democratic debate in congresswoman tlaib's state next wednesday. i'm joined by jemele hill, staff writer for the atlantic and host for the podcast jemele hill is

unbothered. and john brae burn, a republican strategist. jemele, the first time i really had you on. everybody thinks you're great so, be great. >> i'll try. >> i want to ask you, big pi pictu picture. i'm old. i've been around listening to political debates. i've heard the dog whistles, the wedge language, you've grown up hearing it, the welfare queen, the young buck. we've heard all the tricks. this is plate important, however. what do you think is role of this moment in history, this president's attacks on these four women? >> i think it's really embarrassing. and i think it probably doesn't even justify by saying it's beneath the dignity of any president, anybody in a leadership position. personally, i fear for their physical safety. and i speak unfortunately from experiencing having been singled out and attacked by the president myself is that he knows what he's doing when he does things like that and he uses certain trigger words to create a level of fear and a level of animosity by calling

congresswoman rashida tlaib, by calling her a lunatic, which is a very easy stereotype that a lot of women who are passionate about what they do, that's the kind of way that they get branded. whenever we're passionate, we're assertive, we get called crazy or a lunatic. he has created this image of them. he's made them almost like a villainous version of paul bunyan, all four of these women, and he is putting their personal safety at risk, because i'm telling you, and i certainly -- i obviously don't wish this. but it's not going take much for somebody to they're corrosive repulsive language that he's directed at them and take it too far. i'm still receiving death threats from what i said about the president a couple of years ago. so i can only imagine the level of vitriol that is being directed as these four women. >> let's get into anthropology here. i was looking at a political cartoon today. it was a picture of the president attacking the four women. and then there is bernie sanders

over here, a renowned confessed if you will, self-celebrated socialist. why didn't he attack bernie, the white guy who is a real lefty and says so? why did he pick out these four to go after? >> first of all, he attacks everybody. he is an equal opportunity of attacker. number two is let's not play this ridiculous game that they don't go after donald trump. all you got to do is watch the last debate and they could make it a drinking game how often do they mention donald trump versus each other. so let's not make it sound like -- >> what's fair game? what is fair game? >> honestly, thing is enough room and blame for everybody here to ratchet down. >> go home? go home? he never told bernie or any of the other guys to go home. >> but bernie is part of this too. what's confusing the democrats in all this, why are the president's numbers improving? why are states like michigan and pennsylvania -- >> that's an answer. >> i think a big part of that reason is you see these far left social democrats are an insult

to a lot of americans who say this isn't the american dream. this isn't the america i was promised. and they're frankly insulted to some degree that the democrats aren't fighting for them. >> jemel, your thoughts. why are they the target of this president politically? because what trump cares about, whatever his prejudices are, his number one goal i would say is him. his goal. he wants to win and be a bigger shot next year than he was this year. a still bigger shot two years from now, a still bigger shot three years from now. that's all trump wants to be. bigger, bigger, bigger. why is he doing it this way? >> because women of color and people of color have always been low-hanging fruit in this country. with all due respect talking about this doesn't represent america, who these women are very much does represent america. and there is a lot of people in our country don't want to acknowledge or don't want to accept that fact. and so therefore it's so easy to paint outspoken women as being what is wrong with this country.

it's so funny to me that they aren't allowed to say what they see as inequity, what they see as problematic in this country. but donald trump, the white billionaire, he is allowed to run an entire campaign about why this country isn't great. and people who follow him, they're allowed to complain about why this country can't be better, but women of color, people of color are not allowed to issue the same complaints when they have been under the boot of oppression for far longer and can identify with that much more than donald trump ever could. >> what do you make of the fact that aoc said that these policies on environment and health care are garbage, and he turned around and said no, america is garbage. he did that that's not what she said. >> here's the problem. first of all, everybody makes up everything that everybody says. so half the time they're wrong. here what's i don't understand. people keep saying donald trump is playing to his base. donald trump's base is not just republicans. it's mostly different than romneys. >> it's michigan. >> and erie county,

pennsylvania. and so forth where there are blue collar democrats who by the way voted for barack obama. so, you know, to say that he is playing to a base using race-baiting is calling -- >> these women do terrify or scare the base you're talk about, that they are clearly highly educated people. they are not poor people that can hardly make their voices heard. they are in positions of power. they were elected, and they're clearly well educated people who -- none are saying they're elite, but certainly to be dealt with. are they afraid of them? are the people you talk about afraid of these four women? >> i think they're afraid of their ideas. because it is not what this country was founded on. it's getting rid of the american dream and saying we're going promise mediocrity for all of you. that's what really we're doing. >> let's talk about it. you'll be coming back, i can tell you, because i want you back if you will come back. last thought, madam? >> i don't know what is so far left about equality, health

care. the whole they think the republicans and conservatives have always pitched progress as something that has taken something from them, and it's not. a lot of the things that aoc and all these congresswomen have talked about are things blue collar people should easily be able to identify with. there is nothing strange about climate change. it's a real thing, okay? so to talk than and discuss that is a very real issue. it's not far left. it is what reality is. >> right. and i saw black jeopardy on "snl," and i know there is a lot of common nature to both sides. thank you, jemele hill. thank you john brae burn. you come in fight. even when you're wrong. >> when did that happen? >> outspoken, arrogant, uninterested in details. the uk now has their own donald trump. different hairdo, but look at this guy. interesting similarities. more on the uk's new prime minister boris johnson, after this. thiss be honest, you need insurance. but it's not really something you want to buy. it's not sexy... oh delicious. or delicious...

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uprising in their own countries. president trump sent him a congratulatory tweet this morning adding this compliment. >> we have a really good man who is going to be the prime minister of the uk now, boris johnson. good man. he is tough and he is smart. this ain't britain trump. people saying that's a good thing. >> despite his untidy facade, johnson will be tasked with a tidy exit from the european union, do or die was his campaign pledge. joining me from london, bobby ghosh, bloomberg opinion editor. bobby, thank you so much. i've been watching this guy boris. i had him on the show a while ago. i like the guy. i thought he was a character. i also thought he was a prime minister. he seemed to be in a weird gross way of imitating the churchill behavior, breaking with relationships, starting new one, always being with the news. can he get britain out of

european -- out of europe with the irish border situation? how do they do that? i've been watching that. how does that work? >> well, that's the question this country has been asking for nearly two years. that's the question that people have been asking boris johnson for the last two years. he has never fully answered the question, except to say in the most general terms we're going to do this. it's a do or die thing. we have a can do spirit. it's very much like president trump saying make america great again without any specifics. this is boris johnson, perfectly summarized, that he talks in the most sort of banal generalities without putting any flesh on the bone, without having any clear policy positions on the most important question that britain has faced in decades. >> because the united kingdom includes northern ireland. without northern ireland, there is no united kingdom. there is just great britain. that's it. goodbye. anyway, let me ask about the people behind him. are the people behind him the kind of people you see at a

trump rally? >> yes and no. you don't have the exact same kind of people. >> well, middle england then. middle people. >> yes. there is certainly a lot of that. there are some similar fears that he's stoking, a fear that britain has lost its glory days. there is a fear of immigrants. there is a fear of the new economy, new kinds of jobs are being created and people are not trained for those jobs. a lot of the old jobs people are used to are going away. so those are parallels. people have the similar sort of fear of the future in britain as we've seen in the u.s. and those kinds of people certainly voted for brexit. and we don't yet know that they're going vote for boris johnson. it's important to remember he hasn't been elected prime minister by the country. he's been elected to lead the party by the party membership. that's 150,000 people. that's all. we'll see when the opportunity

arises, if it arises for him to take his idea to the public to see if britain is willing to vote for this guy as prime minister. that test has not yet been met. >> don't be so skeptical. he can beat corbin, can't he? he can beat corbin. >> that's a very low hanging fruit. but there was poll out earlier today that asks people would they vote for corbin or johnson or do not know. do not know got more than boris johnson. that's not a good sign for somebody who is supposed to lead this country through such a huge deal. it's one thing to be running a country when everything is moving smoothly. you can have a maverick. you can have an eccentric leading the country for a little bit. but this is an existential moment for britain. this is when britain has not faced a challenge like this arguably since the second world war. this is not a moment for a person with such unclear views

to be running this country. >> i love your skepticism, sir. bobby ghosh out there. thank you for joining us from london. up next, tomorrow's place in history. the big day tomorrow, it's going down in history books tomorrow. will it be a big one? we'll see. stick around. you're watching "hardball." you're watching "hardball. ♪ you should be mad they gave this guy a promotion. you should be mad at forced camaraderie. and you should be mad at tech that makes things worse. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, who's tech makes life easier by automatically adding

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the democrats want mueller to say tomorrow that donald trump committed an impeachable act. they want a perry mason moment when the special counsel says he did it. the prime legal target will be obstruction of justice. was it a high crime for the president to order the firing of the special counsel charged with investigating him? the prime political target will be collusion with russia. did president trump encourage and reward russian interference in the 2016 election. these twin missions, legal and political come with a hazard. it's the democrats' big chance to ignite an impeachment drive, also their final one. in cowboy movie terms, this is the gunfight at the o.k. corral, but also the last saloon.

for history, we don't want this playing ftse with a foreign power to happen again. but i have to leave you on the eve of a big hearing with a thought as to the republican mission tomorrow. a gop member of the judiciary committee laid that out qte well. quote, we are going to reelect the president. that'srdll" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in" -- >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> donald trump's depraved behavior finally takes center stage. >> we did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime. >> tonight, the final preparations and the expectation setting as robert mueller will finally answer questions on his devastating report for the president. plus, congressman hakeem jeffries on how democratic leadership plans to handle the