say that he saw something wrong with the way that donald trump welcomed russian interference, which of course is part of the thing that launched this probe. i really appreciate you staying with us on this special edition of "the beat." i'll be back here at 6:00 p.m. tomorrow. don't go anywhere. msnbc coverage continues with "hardball" right now. second term? or prison term? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. that's the message from today's testimony by special counsel robert mueller. a second term for term or a prison term for trump? trump was not exonerated in the investigation by mueller and stands vulnerable to indictment the second he leaves office. and the dramatic double feature today, robert mueller testified before the house judiciary and intelligence committee, laying bare the evidence his prosecutors uncovered in their

two-year investigation. and despite his reluctance to testify, mueller offered a stark, often emphatic summary of his findings. he pierced a gaping hole in the president's most misleading defense, trump's false claim that the mueller report exonerated him. >> the president has repeatedly claimed that your report found there was no obstruction and that it completely and totally exonerated him. but that is not what your report said, is it? >> correct, that is not what the report said. >> and what about total exoneration? did you actually totally exonerate the president? >> no. >> far from exonerating the president, mueller confirmed for millions of americans today that trump and his associates embraced russian interference with open arms and then lied about it. >> in fact, the campaign welcomed the russian help, did it not? >> in the report indications that occurred, yes. >> apart from the russians wanting to help trump win,

several individuals associated with the trump campaign were also trying to make money during the campaign in transition. is that correct? >> that is true. >> when your investigation looked into these matter, numerous trump associates lied to your team, the grand jury and to congress? >> a number of persons that we interviewed in our investigation it turns out did lie. >> reporter: when donald trump called your investigation a witch hunt, that was also false, was it not? >> i'd like to think so, yes. >> well, your investigation is not a witch hunt, is it? >> it is not a witch hunt. >> when the president said the russian interference was a hoax, that was false, wasn't it? >> true. >> throughout his sworn testimony today, the special counsel detailed how trump and others misled prosecutors and covered their tracks throughout the investigation. he reprimanded the president for encouraging a hostile intelligence service, wikileaks, to distribute hillary clinton campaign emails, and he explained how the president used the power of his office to attempt to end the investigation itself. when a republican congressman questioned mueller's findings on

obstruction, the former special counsel made clear that the president can be indicted, indicted for criminal action after he's left office. >> okay. but the -- could you charge the president with a crime after he left office? >> yes. >> you believe that he committed -- you could charge the president of the united states with obstruction of justice after he left office? >> yes. >> didn't expect it. any way, mueller's point appeared to bolster speaker nancy pelosi's private words to her caucus in june when she said i don't want to see trump impea impeached. i want to see him in prison. after an impromptu caucus meeting following the hearing today, elijah cummings of maryland made an impassioned plea to all americans about the importance of this moment, today's testimony in history. >> it's not about not liking the president. it's about loving democracy. it's about loving our country. it's about making a difference

for generations yet unborn. that's what this is all about. and i'm begging, i'm begging the american people to pay attention to what is going on. >> i'm joined now by u.s. congressman shawn patrick maloney of new york state, and congresswoman madeline dean of pennsylvania, member of the house judiciary committee. thank you both for joining us. let's get to the question. the president since march when william barr put out his distorted notion of what the findings were of the special counsel, the president has been bragging that he was exonerated by special counsel mueller's investigation. what was the truth that came out today, congressman maloney? >> well, i'm reminded of the old saying that a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. i think what you saw today is the truth is getting in the game. the attorney general went out and flat-out represented what

the report said. the president has been lying about it all along. today was the beginning of a serious effort to get the truth to the american people. >> congresswoman, the same question to you. it seems to me the president was successful in lying. he was not exonerated. the counsel made that clear today many, many times. in fact, he is vulnerable for criminal prosecution the second he leaves office. >> you actually are getting to an area that i actually focused on in my questions with mueller, the role of attorney general barr in creating public confusion around what the findings were of this report. the special counsel wrote to the attorney general and said there is now public confusion as a result of his characterization of the report, which gave cover to this president to go on over and over again to say no collusion, no obstruction. guess what mueller said today? neither of those things was the case. in fact, in volume 1, we see sweeping wrongdoing by russia that continues to this day.

we see incredible collaboration, not criminal according to mueller, by the trump campaign. more than 100 contacts with russia and not a call to law enforcement, and then ten instances of obstruction of justice by this president, and he couldn't charge simply because of the justice department ruling that you cannot charge a sitting president. >> for which the president according to robert mueller now faces if he leaves office tomorrow morning, criminal action against him. anyway, under questioning from congresswoman val demings of florida i believe, mueller acknowledged that the information he gathered contradicted the president's written testimony, which was not always truthful. here it goes. >> in fact, there were many questions that you asked the president that he simply didn't answer, isn't that correct? >> true. >> and there were many answers that contradicted other evidence you had gathered during the investigation. isn't that correct, director mueller? >> yes. >> director mueller, isn't it fair to say the president's

written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didn't answer many of your questions, but where he did his answers showed he wasn't always being truthful? >> there -- i would say generally. >> he is careful there, of course, congressman. it looks like he is getting to the point there of saying the president perjured himself. >> well, let's remember there was no in-person sworn testimony by the president. and i asked him why. and i think the interesting explanation is that director mueller actually thought he had laid out substantial evidence, sufficient evidence in the report to divine the intent and to assess the presidents cupability in that area. by the way, that's the most he can do under the doj guidelines around prosecution and around accusing without charging. so the fact is that he ran right up to the line there i think of saying we didn't even interview the president because we had enough. and it's in the report. >> congresswoman, good ahead. >> more than that, take a look at what both the president and

attorney general barr claimed. full cooperation by this white house. full cooperation by this president, but he refused to come in, and then he testified so many times in his written words he didn't remember, he didn't know, and contradictory things. this is not a transparent, accountable white house. what we have seen today is the lawlessness, the corruption that has permeated both the campaign and this administration. >> amazing testimony today. thank you so much, congressman sean patrick maloney of new york state and congresswoman madeline dean of pennsylvania. >> thank you. piece by piece asked details o president trump's attempt to fire the special counsel and stop the investigation altogether. >> the president wanted to fire you because you were investigating him for obstruction of justice. isn't that correct? >> that's what it says in the report, yes. and i stand by the report. >> next, the president told the white house staff secretary rob porter to try to pressure mcgahn

to make a false denial. that correct? >> that's correct. >> so it's fair to say the president tried to protect himself by asking staff to falsify records relevant to an ongoing investigation? >> i would say generally that's a summary. >> mr. lewandowski, a private citizen, was instructed by the president of the united states to deliver a message from the president to the attorney general that directed him to limit your investigation. correct? >> correct. >> and it's an unsuccessful attempt to obstruct justice is still a crime, correct? >> that is correct. >> joining me right now is cinthany alksne and ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser. let me start with cynthia on this. it seems like the did draw out from mueller the examples and cases of where he obstructed, criminally. >> yes and no. he refused really to even answer a question. all he would do is take a leading question.

but he wouldn't actually say what happened. i thought that was frustrating. he wouldn't read from the report. i thought that was frustrating. and then i also thought the presentation, as nice as the clips are that you have put together, your staff has put together, when you watch the whole thing, it wasn't compelling, because it was upside down and backwards. it started with the obstruction. it moved to after that to the actual crime. that didn't make any sense. he was very halting. he didn't defend the report with the kind of gusto i expected him to. while the information got out, it was information we all knew. >> yes. >> and i hate to be the contrarian on the network, but i did not think it went well. and i was unimpressed with the manner in which it was organized. >> well, a lot of this is the man's age and all kinds of factors. we'll be examining that. i thought although he didn't have racing stripes on, he did deliver the goods, point by

point. your thoughts, paul. >> mueller directly proved that trump's claim of no obstruction is a lie. he presented compelling evidence that all of the predicates, all of the legal requirements for obstruction were proven. his was an official investigation that the president tried to impede with a corrupt intent. and so mueller proved that by looking at how trump tried to fire mueller and then tried to get the white house counsel to lie and cover up about how trump tried to get sessions to recuse himself about how trump impeded witnesses by dangling those pardons and threatening michael cohen and paul manafort. so i agree with you, cynthia. the problem isn't so much what trump said but how he -- what mueller said but how he said it. mueller is lawyerly and reserved where trump and barr are aggressive and in your face. and the stakes here are very high. this is the most important investigation of a president in american history.

trump and barr lie about it and their lies seem to be effective. what mueller needed to do was say plainly and directly that the president is guilty of multiple felonies that the only reason that he's not charged with a crime now is because of that doj policy. but the constitutional remedy is impeachment. >> let me go to ben on this question, because it seems like a lot this was done in broad daylight. the president attempted firing of comey, daring him to give a loyalty oath, everything he could to protect his guy, hid national security adviser, pushing for the firing of the special counsel himself. so much of this information is bold print in the headlines for months now. and all they wanted to do was tie it together today, and i had to admit, i agree with cynthia. the ability of this special prosecutor to make his case was not good, but the members of the congress on the democratic side and the republican side were able to bring out the criminality. i thought. your view? >> chris, at the end of the day,

the thing that has to endure are the facts, right? and the facts here are very clear, that russia interfered in our election. that the trump campaign was involved in, as was confirmed today, 100 contacts with a hostile foreign power that was attacking our democracy. and that clearly, trump and many people around him lied about their contacts with russia. and some of those people have even been charged with crimes. and we learned today that trump could be charged with a crime when he no longer has the protection of the presidency. so, again, a lot of this has been playing out in plain sight. a lot of the crimes frankly that were committed in the obstruction that was committed was in plain sight. frankly, we all remember donald trump asking russia to hack hillary's emails on camera, just as we saw him confirm that he fired james comey because of the russia investigation on camera. but that shouldn't make the facts matter less. again, just because the republicans on that committee don't have the conscience to defend trump, just because bob mueller did not perform like a professional wrestler doesn't

diminish the severity of the fax. and what we also heard from mueller today is that russia is continuing to interfere in our democracy and we have no confidence that this administration wouldn't do the same thing again and seek the help of a foreign power in getting elected again. those are the facts and i think the democrats now have to act on them. >> first the president has been lying for five months. he was not exonerated by mueller's report. he was not exonerated. and second he faces criminal prosecution. you have a thought? >> here is my problem with the situation. i didn't learn anything knew. i knew he could be prosecuted there isn't any question to me that he committed the obstruction and they played cozy with the russians, welcomed their help and lied to cover it up. the question is what are the democrats going to do about it? every time we approach anything, they have a new solution. oh, julian assange is coming. they always have something to kick the can down the road. and now you can already hear them at this last press

conference, we're just going get don mcgahn. i got news for you. don mcgahn is going to fight the subpoena constantly. they have to make the decision are, they going to impeach him or are they not going to impeach him. if they're going to impeach him, get going. if they're not going to impeach him, let's take the business of the country. >> thank you, cynthia. >> sorry. >> no, don't be sorry. it's in my soul what you're saying. >> let's do something. and we all know what happened. we know. >> stop kicking the can. cynthia, paul and ben are all sticking with us. coming up, robert mueller lays out the russian connection and how trump and his people welcomed it, encouraged it, made use of it and then covered it up. plus, why isn't there more being done to fight ongoing russian interference, which mueller made clear is definitely not a hoax? i'm going to talk exclusively to former cia director leon panetta tonight. much more ahead on a big news day. stick with us. there was no hesitation, i went straight to ctca. after my mastectomy, it was maddening because i felt part of my identity was being taken away.

when you're able to restore what cancer's taken away, you see that transformation firsthand knowing that she had options that she could choose, helped restore hope. my team made me feel like a whole person again. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? that's ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar. it's a sit-up, banana! bend at the waist! i'm tryin'! keep it up. you'll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa!

30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. who used expedia to book the vacation rental which led to the discovery that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up. expedia. everything you need to go. lick fast like a cookie dough ninja. apply that same speed to the ford hurry up and save sales event. for the first time ever get 20% estimated savings on select ford models, plus earn complimentary maintenance through fordpass rewards. it all adds up. don't you love math? so get here asap because tasty deals and summer go fast. get in or lose out on 20% estimated savings on select ford models, plus earn complimentary maintenance through fordpass rewards. plus earn complimentary maintenance through here, hello! starts with -hi!mple... how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? everyone. let's send to everyone! [ camera clicking ]

wifi up there? -ahhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. welcome back to "hardball."

robert mueller demonstrated again today that his investigation into russian election interference was not a witch hunt. he was explicit about the main finding of his two-year investigation, that russia interfered in the 2016 election, and this trump campaign welcomed, encouraged it, benefitted from it, used it, covered it up. this afternoon at the intelligence committee hearing today, chairman adam schiff asked the special counsel to confirm aspects of his findings. >> in fact, the campaign welcomed the russian help, did they not? >> i think we report in our -- in the report indications that that occurred, yes. >> the president himself called on the russians to hack hillary's emails? >> there was a statement by the president in those general lines. >> and numerous times during the campaign, the president praised the releases of the russian hacked emails through wikileaks? >> that did occur. >> russia committed federal crimes in order to help donald trump? >> when you're talking about the

computer crimes. >> yes. >> in the charge in our case, absolutely. >> trump campaign officials built their strategy, their messaging strategy around those stolen documents? >> generally, that's true. >> and then they lied to cover it up? >> generally, that's true. >> mueller went on to call the threat of more russian interference next time the most serious threat to our democracy. cynthia alksne, paul butler and ben rhodes are back with me. ben, you're first this time there was a lot of information gleaned there by the chairman adam schiff from the special counsel about the role trump people played here in terms of colluding, a lot of it. >> yeah. and that exchange is the whole ball right there, chris. the trump campaign welcomed this attack from a foreign adversary, sought to benefit from it, built a campaign strategy around it, and here we are. and here we are facing an ongoing threat to our democracy from the russians.

and cynthia is exactly right. mueller can't directly direct congress to impeach the president but he has basically punted it into their lap, here's what i found. what are you going to do about it? and let's be clear, chris. if this doesn't at least merit an impeachment inquiry? what does? >> i agree with that. >> we have an attack on our democracy from a foreign adversary. a foreign adversary that's going to do it again. a and if the people who did this pay no price for it, there is no accountability, why wouldn't they do it again, and why wouldn't other people do it after them? that's why this is such a big crisis for our country. >> paul, during watergate when i was around, every time i got a tad of sympathy for the guys who did it, i said no, if they had gotten away with it, it gets worse. if you abuse power, you're going to abuse it more the next day you get up. >> robert mueller said that today. the word he used to describe what the russians did to the united states was attack. this was an attack on our democracy. and the question is will they get away with it? and what he suggested is not only have we not learned, but

that this is very likely to happen with the 2020 election, and this time it won't only be the russians who are attacking us, it will be other nations as well. the point here is that mueller then rised to the occasion and do everything in his power to try to get that message to the american people, because this wasn't an investigative kind of hearing. this was a showcase to -- for the american people to learn what robert mueller had found in his findings. and usually prosecutors want criminals to be brought to justice. they want there to be consequences for illegal actions. and again, i'm not sure mueller made that case to the united states as directly and as effectively as he could have. this was theater at the end of the day he was an ineffective leading man. >> he wasn't a presenter. anyway -- >> he is not a theater guy. we all knew that. he did exactly what he said he was going to do. i'm going to stick to the report. and by the way, everybody who knows him knows he doesn't do theater. he has this armor of ethics

around him. that's why he is a prosecutor's prosecutor. he was never going to do what the house wanted him to do. he was never going to do that. he was just -- and he absorbed the criticism from the republicans. neither side got what they wanted. let me just be the depressing person at the table. trump is getting away with it. that is what is happening. >> mueller understands that. see, the thing is mueller understands that. he is allowed to notice politics. so he understood that today could be a game changer. and given again that he thinks that the russians attacked our democracy and that trump actively welcomed that attack and then did everything in his power to prevent the investigation which is a crime, again, why wouldn't he do more to try to protect his findings to make sure that trump is brought to justice? >> cynthia, you say he is going to beat the judge. he is not going to get impeached? >> i don't think he is going to get impeached. he might get indicted later. >> you think he might really? suppose he gets to second term? >> well, then we have a statute of limitations problem.

it's not just this case. it's the campaign finance case too. that case is going down the road. the guy paid somebody off in order to get elected. and what are we doing? we're sitting on our thumbs, fiddling. i don't know what's going on here. and how are you ever going to have a campaign finance law when you know the president of the united states can pay somebody off and nothing happens. >> ben, is he going to get away with it? everything mueller brought was pulled out of his hands, but we got the truth from the day. all of the dealing, the collusion, all the obstruction, all that came forward today. had to pull it out of his teeth, but it came out. is that going to put this guy away or is he going to stay as president and get reelected without any prosecution? >> that's not going to put him away, right? and you're only going to defeat him at the ballot box, and that's when we'll see if he gets away with it. if i were the democrats, i would be playing much more hardball, an impeachment inquiry. you can call witnesses on what russia did on their tactics. >> congress is not going to do it. i heard it again late today. she is not going to do it. >> i think that we have to

expose the fundamental corruption and unpatriotic nature of this administration. somebody has to prosecute that case, if not the house democrats, the democratic nominee. just as they're making the case on bread and butter issues, they have to go right at this level of corruption. i can tell you. >> i'm dead serious. >> this matters. >> let's take a moment here. if you think there would be a piece write your democratic congressman, the republican ain't going to do it. write them. find out what their address is. write them. the house of representatives, the name of the person and make your case, because thing is a lot of people that would like to see something happen here. but it's clear the leadership of the house is not going do it. am i right? >> you're right. and what pelosi says is she wants there to be other kinds of hearing. guess what? impeachment would get all of that evidence much quicker. what the trump is doing now is stonewalling. they're not responding to any subpoenas. >> five-week recess coming up. it will be the fall when they come back. they're not going to impeach this year. and therefore they're not goings impeach next year. it's not going to happen. >> i'm at the point where i don't even care -- i don't even care if we have to wait to the

ballot box. make a decision, either impeach him and do it and skip your stupid recess, or don't impeach him and deal with the country. instead of this constantly kicking down the road oh, we're going do this, we're going to do that and decide. there is enough evidence. we all read the report 100 times. the evidence is there. make a decision. that's your job. >> i agree. i thought the bleachers looked like the losing locker room. i'm afraid, because i think the guy did make the points today but didn't do it emphatically enough. >> it's not his job to do that. it's their job to decide. >> thank you, cynthia. thank you, cynthia alksne. >> paul butler, ben rhodes. i think all three are in agreement, and are agreeing here. still ahead, stark warnings about efforts to undermine our elections coming up. they're doing it as we sit here. perhaps the most consequential question to arise from today's hearing, are we doing enough to keep foreign power, russia, from interfering in our 2020 election? former cia director and secretary of defense leon panetta is going to come to us

in about a minute and tell what's he thinks about the danger lying out there 2020. right back. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. at their reddest, ripest, they make everything better. like our strawberry poppyseed salad and new strawberry summer caprese salad. strawberry season is here. panera. food as it should be. i get to select my room from the floor plan... when i book at hilton.com free wi-fi... ...and the price match guarantee. so with hilton there is no catch. yeah the only catch is i'm never leaving.

no i'm serious, i live here now. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. i had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. like the old "tunic tug". but always discreet is less bulky. and it really protects. 'cause it turns liquid to gel. so i have nothing to hide. always discreet. prpharmacist recommendedne memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. o♪ ozempic®! ♪ oh! oh! (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. oh! under 7? (announcer) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (announcer) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events

like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? (announcer) ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles or pens. don't reuse needles. do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. stop taking ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. tell your doctor if you have diabetic retinopathy or vision changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase the risk for low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. i discovered the potential with ozempic®. ♪ oh! oh! oh! ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) if eligible, you may pay as little as $25 per prescription.

ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. is this in your investigation, did you think that this was a single attempt by the russians to get involved in our election or did you find evidence that suggests they'll try to do this again? >> it wasn't a single attempt. they're doing it as we sit here, and they expect to do it during

the next campaign. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was special counsel robert mueller sounding the alarm, if you will, that russia is still actively trying to undermine our country's democracy. page one of mueller's report made that clear. quote, the russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion. and as we have learned, the trump campaign welcomed the help by the russians. this is something mueller says worries could be the new normal for our political campaigns here. >> my concern is if we establha established a new normal from this past campaign that is going to apply to future campaigns so that if any of us run fog interest u.s. house, any candidate for the u.s. senate, any candidate for the presidency of the united states aware that a hostile foreign power is trying to influence an election has to november duty to report that to the fbi or other

authorities? go ahead. >> i hope this is not the new normal, but i fear it is. >> for more i'm joined right now by leon panetta, former director of the cia and former secretary of defense. mr. secretary, mr. director, what did you get out of the hearings today and what we should be worrying about as americans? >> i don't think there is any question that the most critical point made by bob mueller today and it's obviously the subject of the report that they were discussing. but bob mueller made very clear that the russians deliberately and systematically attacked our country during the 2016 election, and that they're continuing to attack our election systems in this country. this isn't a hoax. the president called it a hoax. bob mueller made very clear this is not a hoax. and what is the scariest thing of all, chris, is the fact that

this president has not acknowledged to the american people what the russians did to our country. and as a matter of fact, has accepted russian excuses for the fact that somehow they were not involved. that is i think a very dangerous combination of having the russians continuing to attack our election systems, but more importantly, having a president who still even today called it a hoax. that's a dangerous combination for our national security. >> mr. secretary, when you and i were growing up, the republican party took pride in being the party of national defense. they were the most anti-communist, the most serious about protecting our country from foreign dangers. when you watch them today, what did you make of their failure to have even a nationalistic sense of damn it, we can't let somebody else do this to us

again. it didn't seem like they had any kind of indignation at all about it. in fact, they were covering it up. >> chris, you and i were in the how many times when democrats and republicans not only worked together, but republicans were very strong on national defense and protecting our country, particularly from russia. to hear the republicans today not strongly come out with regards to the attack that russia made on this country and try to continue to excuse the president's activities here is -- it's discouraging because, frankly, when it comes to our national security, this is not a partisan issue. this has to be an issue that both democrats and republicans are concerned about. we're facing an election again

in 2020. people are going to run for office. the american people have a right to cast their vote knowing that it's not going to be interfered with from an adversary. today that is not the case. we are still looking at the russians continuing to interfere in our election process, and i'll tell you what's worse. the russians are getting a message from this president and this administration that it's okay to do that. that's the worst message of all. >> what do you make of his claim, admission? it's more like a confession that this president said if he got some more dirt handed to him over the transom, he would take it from overseas, again. >> you know, again, when the president gave that response that if the russians were to offer that kind of information, he'd take it, that says a great deal about what we've just been through. clearly in the case of president trump, there was only one issue that he cared about, which was

winning. and he was going to win regardless of who helped him. it's pretty clear the trump team was willing to accept the help of russia. the fact that they lied about it tells you an awful lot about what they were trying to do. so that you've got an individual here who is not going to resist the russians coming in and messing around with our election process. that is the concern that i think all americans need to have. this is not a situation in which our commander in chief ought to be standing back and allowing the russians to interfere in our election process. he ought to be speaking out against it. he ought to be making clear what we're doing to prevent that from happening. he ought to be conducting a full-scale effort to make sure that this doesn't become the new normal for american politics.

>> mr. secretary, i wish you were president. thank you so much for joining us from monterey, california. leon panetta. still ahead, a closer look at some of the cheap shots taken by republicans today during the hearings, and they were cheap. you're watching "hardball." ♪ l look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ would shakespeare have chosen just "some pens?"s. methinks a tul pen would serve m'lady well. thanks! and a unicorn notebook! get everything on your list. this week's doorbuster - notebooks for 10¢, 10¢ in store or online from the advisors at office depot officemax.

over time, you go noseblind to the odors in your home. (background music) but others smell this... (upbeat music) that's why febreze plug has two alternating scents and eliminate odors for 1200 hours. ♪breathe happy febreze... ♪la la la la la. with advil liqui-gels, what stiff joints? what bad back? advil is... relief that's fast. strength that lasts. you'll ask... what pain? with advil liqui-gels. when didwhen i needed ton? jumpstart sales. build attendance for an event. help people find their way. fastsigns designed new directional signage. ...and got them back on track. get started at fastsigns.com. age-related macular man: i'vdegeneration,sed with which could lead to vision loss. so today i made a plan with my doctor, which includes preservision. because it's my vision, my love of the game, my open road, my little artist.

vo: only preservision areds 2 contains the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. man: because it's my sunset, it's how i see my life. it's my vision. preservision.

welcome back to "hardball." republicans spend much of their allotted time today firing off cheap shots at special counsel mueller, and avoiding, of course, the substance of his report. >> americans need to know this as they listen to the democrats and socialists on the other side of the aisle as they do dramatic readings from this report that volume two of this report was not authorized under the law to be written. >> he knows he's innocent. what he is doing is not obstructing justice. he is pursuing justice, and the fact that you ran it out two

years means you perpetuated injustice. >> having desperately tried and failed to make a legal case against the president, you made a political case instead. you put it in a paper sack, lit it on fire, dropped it on our porch, rang the doorbell and ran. >> the drafting and the publication of some of the information in this report without an indictment, without prosecution frankly flies in the face of american justice. and i find those facts of this entire process unamerican. >> there is collusion in plain sight, collusion between russia and the democratic party. >> well, late this afternoon president trump took a victory lap, seemingly missing the part where mueller told members he did not exonerate the president. >> we had a very good day today. the republican party, our country. there was no defense of what robert mueller was trying to

defend. there was no defense to this ridiculous hoax, this witch hunt. >> well, president trump has been mostly echoing his congressional defenders in a series of tweets. at the end of the hearings, he declared truth is a force of nature. for more i'm joined by yamiche alcindor, betsy woodruff, the daily beast politics reporter, david corn, mother jones washington bureau. betsy, thank you for coming back. today the republicans, the cheap shots, referring to them as the democrats and socialists, saying they're aiding and abetting the enemy here like they're traitors. i have to tell you, they did a pretty good day when they had nothing to sell. >> and sort of the deep irony of this is that the member who probably did the most genuine damage to the president is congressman ken buck, who is a republican who got mueller to say in this clip that it would be possible to prosecute trump after he leaves office. on the whole -- >> looked like a jughead. he acted like he didn't know the answer. aren't you supposed to as

prosecutors, yamiche know something what the answer is going to be when you put it, the question? . that is true. and obviously that was in some ways such a telling moment because it was a republican trying to go in, and he asked the question multiple times, and mueller multiple times said yes, he can definitely be indicted when he leaves office that raises the stakes for 2020, because the president isn't just fighting for getting reelected, he is fighting possibly for his freedom. if he doesn't get reelected and is not president, he could be taken to jail or indicted. >> were you here for that? second term or prison term. so i was anticipating your genius. david? what are these cheap shots? the theories. this maltese professor, these weird things. it was like it made johnny dock roo cochran look like he didn't know how to do it. the brilliant distraction. >> they want the distract. they want to confuse. they came up with a couple of new conspiracy theorys to supplant the half a dozen old ones that they've used, and it's pretty obvious.

any republican talked about the fact that russia attacked an election, that trump sought to benefit from it, that they were trying to help trump, and trump then lied about his connections with russia to the investigators and others. these are very fundamental facts that give you a basic scandal, and all they want to do is zero in on this, that and the other thing to try to create an alternative narrative that the real scandal was that there was an investigation of a russian attack. >> i like the director said putting up a framework for fox tv tonight, just to give them enough stuff, crap, to throw out and confuse the thing. >> it's interesting because it sort of seemed like the strategy for republicans was to take what democrats were saying and just say the opposite. and of course nunes, the former chairman. >> the midnight required. >> embodied that by saying, for instance, that democrats were responsible for colluding with the republicans when you would be hard-pressed to find a single person in the intelligence community that thinks that's even remotely connected to

reality. >> he is the guy that went down to the white house, went to the old office building, got some stuff, went home for bed, went down the next morning and said guess what i found out? okay, he was joke. the other guy, gohmert, what a great name, gohmert, the birther of all time. he is the guy who said our previous president, president obama was a kenyan, a kenyan national. he would just throw that stuff out. and now he is taken seriously by anybody today? >> in that exchange you could see was made for tv for fox news frankly and conservative media to say look at gohmert. go after mueller. i think if you back it up little, the president is calling republicans today incredible warriors, and he says that the democrats want to destroy your way of life. so if you listen to the vocabulary that the republicans are using, they're not just making a case the democrats are wrong on this, they're making the case they're unamerican, they're unpatriotic. and it goes back to this idea that if you don't like the country you should leave it. so i think what we have here are republicans really underlying what the president wants to make this case about, and it's who can be an american.

>> well, moments ago, house minority leader kevin mccarthy of california joined by president trump's greek chorus of republican supporters and boosters on the committees unflinchingly backed the president, because kevin is really good at numbers, and he knows the party is going to back the president. so he is going to do it. let's take a look. >> you have no concerns about how the president conducted himself based on the mueller report? >> i do not. there was no collusion. so how do you get to obstruction? >> betsy, they just -- they're toys. they do what they're told. >> it's not hard to understand that you can commit obstruction of justice without committing the crime that is at issue. this is kind of what you learn on your first year of law school. this isn't complicated. for kevin mccarthy to make a statement like that, for him to say well, how can there be obstruction? there is a really easy answer to that. at this point he is the top republican in congress. he can't plead ignorance on this situation. this is just willfully suggesting that the law doesn't

work when we all know it works. >> that's what they say after a drink on the commuter train, that any traveling business guy commuteler say, well, you know, herb, you can't really be accused of obstruction if you didn't do the initial crime. that's not true. >> there is this profound lack of seriousness. >> yeah. >> they don't take the russian attacks serious. they don't take trump's lies serious. >> yeah. >> they just get out there and say they say whatever strikes them at the moment. they've all kind of fallen into trumpitis which is you keep spinning, spinning, throwing out conspiracy theories, somebody said this, that's not really true. people have used the phrase gaslighting, but that's truly what it is. >> we're going get back. alcindor, yamiche, we're going come back and ask a big question. when the democratic opponent, she or he gets on that platform next year in october, they go to go mano a mano, what are they going to say based upon today? there are the naacp convention, fine. but when they look at the tapes and figure out what they will be able to take from today and

throw it at trump, because i believe if they can't throw it in his face when they're looking at him, it's not going to serve much purpose. we'll be right back. our guests are sticking with us. coming up, where do democrats go from here? speaker pelosi weighed in this evening. we're going have that for you next. you're watching "hardball." all.] mm, uh, what do you do for fun? -not this. ♪ -oh, what am i into? mostly progressive's name your price tool. helps people find coverage options based on their budget. flo has it, i want it, it's a whole thing, and she's right there. -yeah, she's my ride. this date's lame. he has pics of you on his phone. -they're very tasteful. woman 1: this is my body of proof.

man 1: proof of less joint pain and clearer skin. man 2: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 2: ...with humira. woman 3: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. announcer: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. man 3: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 4: go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action.

♪work so hard give it everything you got♪ ♪strength of a lioness tough as a knot♪ ♪rocking the stage and we're never gonna stop♪ ♪all strength, no sweat... just in case you forgot♪ ♪all strength, no sweat... ♪no no no sweat... yesss, i'm doing it all. the water. the exercise. the fiber. month after month, and i still have belly pain and recurring constipation. so i asked my doctor what else i could do, and i said yesss to linzess. linzess treats adults with ibs

with constipation or chronic constipation. linzess is not a laxative, it works differently. it helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. do not give linzess to children less than 6, and it should not be given to children 6 to less than 18, it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling. i'm still doing it all. the water. the exercise. the fiber. and i said yesss to linzess for help with belly pain and recurring constipation. ask your doctor. welcome back to "hardball." in a press conference tonight, speaker nancy pelosi was asked whether what she heard today changed her mind on impeachment. let's watch.

>> what we saw today was a very strong manifestation, in fact some would even say indictment of this administration's cone of silence in their cover-up. my position has always been whatever decision we made in that regard would have to be done with our strongest possible hand, and we still have some outstanding matters in the courts. it's about the congress, the constitution, and the courts. and we are fighting the president in the courts. if we have a case for impeachment, that's the place we will have to go. >> i'm back with yamiche, betsy and david. we only have three minutes left. i want to start with yamiche. we know where the speaker stands. she is against the full indictment against the president. the next democratic candidate for president, however will, have this all in their quiver, in their arsenal. what do you think they will use or should do, whether it's a woman or man? we know who the usual suspects are right now, who is probably

going to be the nominee. but how can they use what we learned today after all this investigating? >> after talking with a number of democrats, what democrats want to hone in on is that robert mueller said the president was generally untruthful when he submitted answers, and that campaign aides and white house aides repeatedly lied and tried to impede the investigation, and they'll point to a step by step repudiation that mueller set out that this is not 12 angry democrats, this is not the president being exonerated, this is not a witch hunt. those clear things when robert mueller wanted to step out of the four walls of the report, he did so to directly refute the president's own words. >> what is the spirit you would take? >> i think you go more basic. america was attacked. you were awol. you denied the attack, and according to the mueller report you sought to benefit from the attack that was designed to help you, and then you lied about it, and then you get to obstruction. so i would do all that before you worry about obstruction. when america needed you, you were not there. you're national security risk. >> that's why i love you.

>> thank you. >> that's why i love you. what would you say? i know you're a straight reporter. you don't have any opinion about anything. i know you're not supposed to. if you think it through, after all this investigation, all the witnesses, all the indictments, all the convictions, all on the watch of this president, what do you say about him when he comes up for reelection and says i deserve another four years? >> the newsiest moment that perhaps democrats won't talk about this, but people in the national security space will is the fact that mueller said the russians are currently working to meddle in the 2020 election. and that's something that should be front of mind for anyone running for president in 2020, because it's easy for campaigns to get stuck in the past. there is this maxim that candidates are constantly running the last race. but right now candidates know what the russians' playbook was in 2016. and according to mueller himself, they're looking for creative ways to replicate. >> the hot hand. if we don't have paper ballots and we have electronic counting of whatever kind, right, what happens if we lose a state next

time? we don't have good constituenting in states and it's that close. >> when intelligence officials briefed capitol hill within the last two weeks about elections security, they didn't stress concerns about ballot integrity, but rather what they said they were most worried about according to sources who were on hand for this classified briefing was threats from russia, north korea, and of course iran. that's what people in the national security space. >> we thank you, yamiche alcindor, thank you, betsy woodruff, and thank you, david corn. up next, the two major takeaways from mueller's testimony today and where this scandal is headed. my conclusion. stick around. you're watching "hardball." we call it the mother standard of care.

it's how we care for our cancer patients- like job. when he was diagnosed with cancer, his team at ctca created a personalized care plan to treat his cancer and side effects. so job could continue to work and stay strong for his family. this is how we inspire hope. this is how we heal. we love you, daddy. good night. i love you guys. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. cancer treatment centers of america. you only talk about your insurancet, when you complain about it. (garbled)....it's so painful. good point! that's why esurance is making the whole experience surprisingly painless. so, you never have to talk about it. unless you're their spokesperson. esurance. it's surprisingly painless.

our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. at their reddest, ripest, they make everything better. like our strawberry poppyseed salad and new strawberry summer caprese salad.

strawberry season is here. panera. food as it should be. mno kidding.rd. but moving your internet and tv? that's easy. easy?! easy? easy. because now xfinity lets you transfer your service online in just about a minute with a few simple steps. really? really. that was easy. yup. plus, with two-hour appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. now all you have to do is move...that thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. it's just another way we're working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started.

long after today becomes a past date in the calendar, and long after the weekly news is digested, two facts will hold their place in history. one is that despite his repeated claims, president trump was not cleared of crime by the two-year mueller investigation, and because he was not cleared by the special counsel, this president remains vulnerable to criminal indictment once he leaves office. trump could well be headed to a reckoning in the same criminal courts and therefore to the same justice available to any american. two, it was confirmed under oath today by the special counsel that far from being a witch hunt, the investigation determined that the russians did intervene in the 2016 election, that it was for the purpose of electing donald trump president of the united states, and it was

welcomed, encouraged, used and covered up by trump and his people. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> did you actually totally exonerate the president? >> no. >> the special counsel testifies. >> your investigation is not a witch hunt, is it? >> it is not a witch hunt. >> and gives voice to his devastating report for the president. >> the president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed. >> tonight, what the nation learned when robert mueller faced congress. >> knowingly accepting assistanforeign assistance during a presidential campaign is an unethical thing to do? >> and a crime. >> problematic is an understatement. >> and what he says about remedies in congress. >> impeachment, correct? >> i'm not going to comment. >> the stakes for donald trump after the white house. >> cha