that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live." "andrea mitchell reports" starts now. and right now on "andrea mitchell reports," round two. the democratic contenders get ready to rumble. bernie sanders and elizabeth warren battling for the progressive crown but the president is trying to brand joe biden, still seen as his toughest challenger. >> i think right now it will be sleepy joe. i think. i feel he'll limp across the line. that's what i think. i think he's off his game by a lot. but i think personally it's going to be sleepy joe. false claims. the president says people are

thanking him for attacking popular congressman elinea cummings, but offering no evidence to support that claim. >> those people are living in hell in baltimore. they're largely african-american. you have a large african-american population. and they really appreciate what i'm doing. they've let me know it. and taking sides. a survivor of sexual assault in the military, republican senator martha mcsally up for reelection comes to the defense of a top commander whose career is now on the line. >> the truth is that general hiten is innocent of these charges. sexual assault happens in the military, it just didn't happen in this case. >> but another military veteran and republican agrdisagrees. >> it gives me doubt as to your

f f fitness. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. democrats prepare to face off for two nights of debates, a critical test that could decide who will survive to the next round. in a new poll, joe biden has recovered from his weak debate performance last month, regaining his big league and now polling at 34% among democrats and democratic leaning voters. his closest competition, elizabeth warren, at 15%. kamala harris and bernie sanders close behind. warren and sanders are on the same stage for the first time tonigh tonight, competing for progressive voters. pete buttigieg tries to get a boost in the polls. t joining me now from detroit, kristen welker and mike murphy,

a former aide to mitt romney and john mccain. here with me in washington, mark murray and joel payne, a former director in the 2016 clinton presidential campaign. kristen welker, first to you, you're there in detroit. michigan played such a critical role in the victory for donald trump. bnz w hillary clinton lost to donald trump by 10,000 votes. that's how small the margin was. very well chosen location for tonight's debate. who gains the most and risks losing the most tonight in the first round? >> reporter: we'll be watching for a couple of things here in what is a critical state for democrats. you're absolutely right about that. first, the extent to which the candidates who are going to be on stage tonight will be talking about two people who won't be on stage. of course, president trump and the democratic front runner, former vice president joe biden. first on president trump, to what extent are these candidates going to delve into this culture

war that president trump has been engaging in, both with this fight with congressman elijah cummings and the attacks against the so-called squad. then are they going to go after joe biden? i've been talking to biden campaign officials who say during the first night of our democratic debate, the candidates who were on stage really didn't take aim at biden. is that going to change tonight? will they be going after him on various different issues on healthcare, for example, where he's stood out from the rest of the pack. then the next is the extent to which the people who are on stage draw distinctions among themselves. particularly the progressives. senator warren, senator sanders. is senator warren able to break out and have a great out moment. so far, they haven't really been attacking each other. will they start to really engage tonight? we'll be watching for that. then, of course, pete buttigieg, beto o'rourke. the younger generation, are they

going to effectively make the case that they're the candidate to lead the democratic party into the future? again, president trump, former vice president joe biden will be looming very large tonight over all of the this. >> and mark murray, you and chuck todd in first read have outlined some of these strains as well. elizabeth warren strikes me, she's been pursuing her individual path, you know, being progressive, yes. being substant ative. not engaging in the fray, not likely to get involved in a smackdown. >> no. they think the gloves are going to be off in this debate and is remembered in the last debate back in miami, sponsored by nbc news and msnbc, that, you know, elizabeth warren really got a free pass. that there was an opportunity for amy klobuchar who is on the

debate stage tonight as well. she was asked to differentiate herself with elizabeth warren and declined. it's going to be interesting on the one percenters. it might be the last debate for them given the higher requirements to make the september debate. >> there's no debates in august, so it's until september 12th and 13th that we see these candidates again. some of them may not hit that mark. >> it's interesting, i talked to some related to the harris campaign and they were talking to me about their healthcare plan they came out with. i think they fully intended for this to be a point of distinction. they knew it was going to draw contrast with former vice president biden and senator sanders. i think it was by sgidesign. you know, senator harris has provided herself on being the

just right candidate, not too hot, not too cold, just right for a lot of primary voters. i've had conversations with folks close to the buttigieg campaign. i don't think a lot of these other campaigns have talked about drawing contrast. i don't get the sense that the buttigieg folks are looking to do that. i think they're prepared for oncoming. former congressman o'rourke has talked about going after the buttigieg folks. you've had all of these mini rivalries have started up. >> and in fact, mike murphy, you know so well what happened with the republicans last time right when they had this enormous field and you had individual people trying to break through and it didn't always work. >> yeah, it's going to be quite an overcaffeinated debate tonight. they all watched the last debate

to try to find the trick. at september at the next debate we won't see some of the one percenters because the threshold to be in is higher. they're under pressure to have something to happen. bernie has got to get something going tonight. it's important on amy klobuchar if heshe's going to be the moderate to act like it. finally, i just say being an old detroiter who has done a lot of michigan politics. i ventured north last night and poked around. this lurch to the left with medicare for all, decriminalizing the borders, et cetera, that will give trump a powerful weapon to take back

those voters that elected him in michigan last night. >> that's where hillary clinton did not campaign effectively. kristen welker, you and i know that very well, having travelled that route. pete on the stage for the first time, you know, the fact that bullock is coming fresh to the debate stage. if tomorrow night, joe biden falters and people are starting to look around for a new face, a new candidate who could fill that moderate center part of the candidate stage, steve bullock is going to be one interesting choice. let's see how he plays tonight. >> reporter: i think that's right. i think he's someone you cannot count out. i do think tonight is going to be critical for him. however, he's going to have to make the case that he's a viable candidate to go up against president trump in a general election. because, of course that's what democratic voters care about over everything else.

he comes from an important state. he could win back a trump state. that is a big talking point he has tonight. he's got to go beyond that. he's got to show he has the might to be a general election candidate. and then you mention the performance of former vice president joe biden. look, he did in the last debate have that back and forth with kamala harris that initially helped harris. he's recovered from that. i think the question is going to be for democrats tonight, is biden tougher? is he more prepared to deal with some of these attacks that might be coming his way? to what extent does he throw attacks back. he's already previewed one. he's likely to argue that kamala harris has been all over the map when it comes to her healthcare plan. yesterday she did unveil that new plan that's sort of in the middle of biden and sanders. i think you could see him go after cory booker. we'll have to see how tough he is. he's got to be careful to walk a fine line, not come off as being

condescending as well. >> exactly right. joel payne, you worked on the hillary clinton campaign. you know the challenges and vulnerabilities of a front runner and conventional wisdom. joe biden in talking to the biden people as well, they anticipate these attacks. they anticipate people trying to go after him because he's the front runner. so they can, you know, prove their qualifications by being tough against him. he has to weigh that balance. >> you mention my experiencesin cycle because top of that field where you had obama, edwards and hillary clinton. there were two dabtebates where edwards and obama teamed up on hillary. it was effective for senator obama. four months later there was a debate in new hampshire where they teamed up and that was not quite as effective and it helped buoy hillary clinton to a surprise comeback victory in new hampshire.

>> i like you well enough. >> i guess the point i would make there is these debates have strange dynamics, they're all unique. depending on the political atmospherics at the time they could go one way or the other. particularly if you have three candidates who are vying for the top spot. we have two that might need to work to their advantage. >> that's such interesting history. thank you for that. mark murray, we're going to be following all of your blogs tonight. kristen welker on the scene as well as our friend mike murphy. coming up, the race card. president trump once again denying claims he's a racist. continuing his attacks against african-american leaders. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us right here on msnbc. right here on msnbc. te the nerves in your colon. miralax works with the water in your body to unblock your system naturally. and it doesn't cause bloating, cramping, gas, or sudden urgency. miralax. look for the pink cap.

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i am the least racist person there is anywhere in the world. when con men i've known almost my whole business life. i got along with them, al sharpton. he's racist. he's a racist. what i've done for african-americans in two jacksonville, floriand a half years, no president has been able to do anything like it. >> president trump, the least racist person you know, according to his own account. escalating his attacks against prominent african-americans including, of course, his inflammatory racial rhetoric

against elijah cummings, but also al sharpton, our colleague and anchor of a program on msnbc. this as "the washington post" details a white house on edge with some aides describing the president's attacks as a distraction or politically unhelpful. joining me now to sort all through this is ashley parker, msnbc senior political analyst and kimberly adkins. ashley, we'll go through the origins of the attack on elijah cummings. tell us how that started. the president is watching the homeland security, over sight hearing with the homeland security director. >> there were a couple of issues that had the president sort of very frustrated with chairman cummings. one was last week, the committee

basically voted to authorize subpoenas over the use of private e-mail accounts for white house advisors. that, of course, sort of sweeps up into that probe. his daughter, ivanka and his son-in-law jared kushner. he was frustrated he had seen elijah cummings at the podium doing a press conference after special counsel mueller's testimony the other day. he watched that hearing as you said where chairman cummings was critical about the nation's policies at the southern border. memorable terms, booming when it was her time to ask questions. the president had been seething for a while and was waiting for a reason to attack. saturday morning around 6:15 a.m. he saw that segment on

fox news and that was his opening. >> one of the things he was seething about was the description of the border in that immigration hearing. but the fact is, that elijah cummings and his colleagues have been to the border. when the president says i've been to the border. we all know your eyes and ears. who are you going to believe me or your lying eyes. we know from our reporting when we were talking to julia ainsley, their award winning reporting as well as many others. the facts are very clear from all of our interviews with pediatricians, with lawyers, advocates along the border. >> and from the ig, from the department of homeland security have detailed the conditions at the border. we do know that that those are facts. this was clearly a way to attack someone trump saw as a political enemy. we've seen time and time again when he attacks people of color, whether they're members of congress or other leaders or anybody who criticized him, he

does it in a particular way using particular language, particularly phrasing. that is the reason we're here in day i don't know how many days we're into this still talking about this. >> into the third week. >> it could be the third. hard to keep track. >> the new poll as well, 51% of voters say overall that the president is a racist. 45% say he's not. and are these attacks an effective political strategy for him? whites say 46% yes, 50% no. african-americans 80% say yes, 11% say no. the divide is so clear. >> it's definitely a divide. i would say when it comes to something like racism, i would trust the people who have been on the receiving end of it when they're defining it. i was very -- the 80% number is the one that stood out for me as if there are people who are clearly seeing what this is. not everybody in the country experiences overt racism. they may not have the experience with it and may have a more

difficult time identifying it. listen to those 80% of folks because they know exactly what it is. >> ashley, as well, the fact that white people are almost evenly divided says a lot about the fact that this man, you know, in terms of his support, sort of matches where his support lies. that at least half of americans, white americans, believe that the president of the united states is a racist. pretty shocking. >> it is pretty shocking. the other interesting question that might also be shocking is we know what people believe the president being a racist or not being a racist. if you believe he's a racist, does that mean you don't vote for him and you don't support him? does that make you, you know, perhaps more troublingly more likely to vote for him or to support him? is that something where you sort of -- if you're a republican moderate in one of these swing districts, does that make you

likely to hold your nose and say i believe he's a racist, i don't like what he says or tweets. i don't like way he tweets women, but i like his record on the courts and i'm going to vote for him. that's what we're waiting to see. that's something his allies and campaign is struggling with. if you have a strategy where people believe the president is a racist, can you use that to your advantage or do you need to try to mitigate that publicly? is it some combination of both, just to put it in crass political terms. >> to just put a fine note on this, there is what used to be referred to as the bradley effect. tom bradley, the african-american mayor of los angeles, where in polling and political polling it's very hard to disaggregate real intentions from private intentions when polling on race in america. ashley parker, kimberly adkins, thank you very much. could sexual assault allegations derail the confirmation of a topjournal g

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report, several reports on a major sexual harassment accusation now threatening the confirmation of a general nominated to be the number two person on the joint chiefs of staff. today's hearing, general john hitten forced to defend this accusation. his accuser is speaking outside the hearing room. the hearing has just wrapped up, let's listen. >> it was crorroborated in a myriad of places. let's discuss the evidence just a little bit. and then i'll try my best to answer any questions you have, understanding i won't wade in any political waters and i can only stick to the facts in this case. so i appreciate secretary wilson's coming forth and testifying on his behalf. however, secretary wilson wasn't

there when a couple of supplemental pieces to the roi were added. therefore she probably hasn't reviewed them. they were fairly detailed and included the fact that general hitten did not pass a polygraph when confronted with the sexual assault allegations. he did not pass that polygraph. immediately therefoafter he refused to answer any other questions in the investigation and refused to cooperate with the investigation, that's important. the additional piece that was also added after the fact was the fact that despite what he said in there that, you know, i was a toxic leader and that he didn't know about it, he very clearly knew about it from early on. i don't consider myself a toxic leader. if you want to know what my

leadership is, you need look no further that general mark miller. if i was a toxic leader, what does that mean about general hitten? he knew about my leadership style and didn't hold himself to the same standard he held me to or anyone else. that's frustrating. he continued to advocate even after the 15-6 was ongoing, after he knew the evidence. he did that for a couple reasons. because he wanted to get rid of my pretty quickly. after i turned him down at reagan. let's talk about that evidence that just came up towards the end. he stated he didn't know where anybody else's rooms were. on that occasion it was corroborated in the investigation, he did. it was across the room from his room. he knew that and he visited me there. i think those are key points that i would like you to know.

i would also like you to know that kind of as a victim i felt like i got sandbagged in there. you want to know how the investigation was done, it investigated the victim. its approach was to blame, shame and discredit the victim. it did not investigate the subject thoroughly. it just didn't. the evidence actually supports moving forward with charges, even though you didn't investigate the subject. several people have made a discussion on how was this done and everyone claims it was so thorough. don't view that the volumes of stuff where you interviewed adga guy who spent five minutes driving us to and from the airport counts as a substantive interview. i think we should talk about the fact that not everybody in the security detail agreed that they think nothing happened. there was at least one member who figured prominently in the air force osi investigation who did think something happened and there was something clearly off at reagan.

i will tell you as a senior person on the travel team that wasn't general hitten i worked closely with the security detail, communications team. and it was me who was interfacing with them at all times. so the notion that they would be protecting him from me or vice versa is erroneous. the fact of the matter is, we spent a lot of time alone together. that's corroborating every single thing. it was not by my choosing it was by his. everything that i stated in that investigation was, in fact, corroborated. less the sex facts, there was only two people. i stated this will be a classic he said/she said. everything i said that would be corroborated was even though you didn't investigate the subject, you investigated me. i think it's important to know you had a senior leader -- >> she sat in today's hearing, says that general hyten sexually

assaulted her. you heard her questioning the probe. several women senators from both parties, including a military veteran from iowa still has serious questions about how the investigation was handled and whether he is fit for this top job. >> there are professional responsibilities associated with being such a high ranking leader. that's to make sure that those within your command are following your directive and not not engaging in toxic leadership. so this leaves me with concerns about your judgment and ability to lead in one of the highest positions in the u.s. military. >> the allegations against you are serious. while we have not been presented with any corroborating evidence, the lack of it does not necessarily mean that the accusations aren't true. women are assaulted all the time and don't tell anyone. >> joining me now is nbc's courteney cubey.

the colonel was sitting there listening and you heard her rebuttal outside the courtroom, the hearing room i should say. where does this go now? will another investigation be opened up into general hyten? he's been nominated as vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. >> number two to the president on decisions about the u.s. military. i don't get the sense from anyone this is going to go into another investigation. that there will be any follow on to this. the air force, the u.s. military -- it's not just the colonel i have spent hours and hours looking into this over the past several weeks, as have a number of other journalists who cover this. going through pieces of the os ooerks investigation, which is the criminal investigation that was launched against general hyten. it doesn't come to adjudication, what it does is there can be a recommendation based off the

findings in that, of a possibility of charges or not. based off the findings and the conclusions in that investigation, general hyten was not referred for charges or any kind of a general court martial based off the colonel's accusations here. it's important to note we did have a number of senators, including senator gillibrand who was not present at the hear who has spoken out against his nomination. we have another member of congress who has been outspoken about military sexual assault. in general hyten's defense, we had senator mcsally, who is a victim of sexual assault when she was in uniform. and we also heard from heather wilson. during part of the time when some of these allegations would have occurred. >> of course, our pentagon

correspondent. joining me now is senator haronu. this strikes me as so similar in some ways to the kavanaugh confirmation hearing. you played a major role on the democratic side questioning judge kavanaugh. is the military situation parallel or different in that he's going to be the number two in command advising the president? i could not over emphasize the importance of his role. what if he's confirmed? how do you proceed? >> in the case of justice kavanaugh or his nomination, there was not a thorough investigation. the fbi subsequent investigation was a sham because it was so limited and certain people were not questioned including dr. ford. in this case there was an investigation, it was extensive.

they talked to dozens and dozens of people that the colonel had asked to be interviewed and also over 100,000 e-mails. there was an investigation. this is not just whitewash. >> whom do you believe in this case? because the colonel just said outside the hearing room that this does boil down to a he said/she said. because she says that the investigation was limited and did not follow up all the leads that investigated her more than him. >> when i said at the hearing that we have not receive croperation, i did not say that lightly. as you know, i am very concerned about sexual assault in any context. i always ask the questions of all of our nominees as to whether they've engaged in this behavior. in this case there was an investigation and the colonel

agre disagrees with the conclusions. however, i do have concerns about general hyten's judgment. he's leading a very, very sensitive command, strategic command. there are concerns relating to the fact there was a toxic environment created by the colonel. it's not as though it was dropped in his lap on day one. he has testified it took a significant amount of time before he recognizes this was an issue and he had to do something about it. yes, i have concerns about his judgment. >> are you going to vote for him as of the -- >> i haven't -- i have not decided. i have to weigh the factors. there is also a couple of questions i pose that i still don't have the responses to. i don't think that this committee should be voting on this nomination this week knowing fell well that the full senate will not be voting on it until we come back for the august recess. >> do you think it will be

delayed a final vote out of committee or whether to support him until after the recess? >> that's what i'd like. we shall see whether or not the committee is going to be voting this week. i hope not. >> senator, from the democratic minority on the senate side, thank you very much. turning to the tragic shooting at the garlic festival. the father of the youngest victim sharing his heartbreak with nbc's miguel almanguer. >> i don't think any parent should have to see their 6-year-old covered in blood. i still can't believe he's dead. he was only six years old, you know? he had a whole -- a lot more to live for to enjoy, to learn. now he's just gone. he was always happy.

wanted today play and always ready to just do whatever. you know? he was more of a friend to me than a son. who i'll miss forever. >> just heartbreaking. the 6-year-old, steven romero was shot in the back and killed. his mother and grandmother were also among the 15 wounded by gunfire. two other victims killed in this attack have also been identified. 13-year-old kaila salazar and 25-year-old trevor irby. molly hunter joins me now from gilroy, california. what have we learned about the motive behind the shooting? >> reporter: good afternoon. that is still the big question. police have not given a motive. we know that the shooter was a resident of the town of gilroy. he's 19. we know he bought his ak-47 style weapon legally in nevada,

not california. police are scrubbing his social media. he's previously posted racial slurs about the right -- white supremacy. they're looking all over his instagram. they're talking to his friends. right now their investigation is not particularly public, but they're reaching out to anyone who might have known him, who might know why he did this. we'll hear more from the police later today at 4:00 p.m. local, 7:00 p.m. eastern. hopefully some of those answers, including the motive might become more clear. >> molly hunter, thank you very much for that update. coming up, padding the resume. new questions about the qualifications of president trump's nominee to take over all of the intelligence agencies. we'll have the inside scoop next right here. stay with us on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. stay with us on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. you need. i wish i could shake your hand. granted. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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president trump's pick to be the new director of national intelligence, texas congressman, john radcliffe is coming under

scrutiny. his website claims he put terrorists in prison. nbc news has found no evidence he ever prosecuted a terrorism case. he was not part of the prosecution team. let's get the inside scoop from nbc's ken delainian who broke the story and matt miller. take us tlhroughout the facts o this case. >> as you know, credit goes to pete williams who fact checked this. we notice he claims to have put terrorists in prison and he campaigned on that slogan. he was a terrorism prosecutor. he headed a terrorism unit in this district in east texas when he was u.s. attorney. when we checked, we found no

terrorism cases prosecuted in that district. when we called his office, they pointed us to this one case involving the holy land foundation. that was in a different district. when we checked into it it turned out he to be appointed as a special prosecutor to example potential juror misconduct. there was an allegation about a juror in a relationship with a defenda defendant. no charges were filed. he wasn't a member of the prosecution team. we could find no evidence he played any role in prosecuting that case. this claim doesn't seem to be accurate. he may have investigated cases that didn't become a prosecution. there's no evidence that he put terrorists in prison. >> and something just caught my eye, which i also heard but it's very clear from the graphic we just had up there while you were

talking. i want to ask matt miller a question. this is his bio. if you look at it closely, heath, texas, was a town of 7,000 people. he was mayor of that town from 2004 to 2012. that was at the same time he was the u.s. attorney for the eastern district of texas from 2007 to 2008. he was u.s. attorney, which is normally in a jurisdiction a full time job at the same time he was mayor. tell me what that tells you. >> i assume he got some kind of waiver from the department of justice and that mayor job -- because it's such a small time, kind of a part time job -- >> or u.s. attorney as a part time job. >> i think ken's report raises really serious questions about his nomination in two regards. one is his qualificationses for the job. it's true he was the terrorism coordinatorerse but i can tell you that district, i go there every year to see family around the holidays. it's not a hotbed of terrorist activity. >> you're a texan? >> i am a texan.

it never has been. this isn't like being the terrorism coordinator in new york or virginia or other districts where a lot of terrorism cases are prosecuted. as ken found he in fact never did prosecute a terrorism case. the idea this is a qualification that's relevant to beak the director of national intelligence, i think would overstate matters. it raises questions about his honesty. he has talked about putting terrorists in prison and specifically about his role on the holy land foundation case and we know those are not true. one of the things we see about people who embellish their qualifications is they usually don't do it one or two times. i suspect as people dig more into this nomination, they'll probably find that these aren't the only times he's exaggerated his credentials. >> in the statute, and this is a post 9/11 statute when intelligence was reorganized and put under the director of national intelligence, and the first two people who held that

job it was difficult to combine all those agencies and there was a lot of questions about whether this new bureaucracy was going to work. in this latest couple of years and the latest people -- you know, most recent who have held that job, particularly dan coats, they were given credit for coordinating and for managing it well. isn't one of the qualifications that someone has to have experience in intelligence and counterintelligence? >> it's written right in the law. >> it's a law? >> we've talked to experts about this. they say they're not sure that's enforceable. it's in there. it would certainly be something that the committee you would imagine could use as a qualification for confirmation. the reason i think congress put it in the law, as you said it's a post 9/11 job. it's a job of managing agencies, community management is the term of art. you need to know understand about intelligence, has any ex

these matters other than his short time on the house intelligence committee. that is giving a lot of my sources pause. that in addition to his extreme partisanship in attacking the mueller investigation. >> normally, what you would hear from the republican chair of intelligence is, we thank the president for the nomination. we'll take a look, etcetera, or praise for the person if it is someone known to them. we know dan coats had a lot of friends in the senate because he was a former senator, former ambassador, george w. bush ambassador to germany, as well. but look at the statement from richard burr, the republican chair of this committee. matt miller and ken delainian, his only statement that i know of since this nomination was, when the white house submits its official nomination to the senate intelligence committee, we will work to move it swiftly through regular order. in the meantime, i look forward to working with dni's principal deputy director sue gordon, who has been a trusted partner to our committee. now, the back story here is very

clear. first of all, when they submit, because we've seen several instances the federal reserve being the most recent where the president said i am nominating herman cain, etcetera, and the nomination never goes up because they don't get through the fbi background check. this seems to indicate, we'll wait and see about this guy. let's see what the background shows, matt miller. also, sue gordon, trusted, career, principal deputy. he is saying, she's the acting not what the president said on his tweet on sunday, which is i am considering who to name as acting and we've heard several names floated. they're all political. >> two things about that. first, i think that statement from richard burr is very much a signal to the white house and everyone else, which is let's see if -- i'm not going to spend any political capital on this nominee until i know whether it's serious because we've seen you before raise nominees with controversial pasts, you know, publicly announce them before you've done any vetting, then the nomination falls apart. i'm not going to stick my neck

out. the second problem is, there is a statute that says sue gordon is to be the inexacting director of dni. i don't know how the white house plans to get around that. perhaps they plan to fire her so they can make someone else acting director but it seems clear they do not intend to follow the statute as it is written. >> she is so well deserving. thank you for all your great reporting and before we go to break, a reminder. yes, there is some hope in individual acts of kindness at the border. an artist has built seesaws inside the border fence so kids from both sides can play with each other. he calls it the teeter totter wall. the artist hopes it helps remind people, children and adults on both sides of the border are connected, literally, in this case, in meaningful ways. you have to love it. up next, an msnbc news exclusive showing how the administration, namely steven miller, is trying to make it even harder for asylum seekers.

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president trump's anti-immigration strategy at the southern border continues to be spearheaded by white house adviser stephen miller. we have exclusive reporting on miller's renewed push to prevent asylum seekers fleeing dire situations in their own countries from getting refuge here in the u.s. julia, what more do we know? >> we've obtained some e-mails

sent from a national security official to customs and border protection officials right before their meeting last friday with stephen miller at the white house. first, the tone of the e-mail is remarkable because you realize how these people are pretty much afraid of stephen miller. they are trying to gear everything they can ahead of the meeting because they're just prepared for any question or any whim he may have in the middle of this meeting. one thing they are asked to prepare for is data that shows border agents are passing asylum seekers at a lower rate than asylum officers would. we know late may they started training about 60 border agents to do these interviews. typically asylum officers have been doing these interviews. this is the first screening. it's called a credible fear interview for an immigrant. later they would go to court. >> presumably these asylum officers have more empathy, experience, understanding of the conditions back in the home countries. >> right. what stephen miller thinks is that they're softer. it's clear from this e-mail they want to show there is a lower

passage rate from border agents. a former official said, look, he sees them as soft and thinks people who come in the border agents are going to come in and be harder on these immigrants. it's clear that is the motive here. at first when they started training border agents to do these interviews they said it's a man power issue. we just need more people doing the interviews. from reading this e-mail it is clear the intention is really to lower the passage rate for asylum seekers. >> what is the impact of this? >> it's a big impact. i think now we want to get that key number. what was the number they provided to stephen miller? we don't have that now. but to show if there is an impact. one person speculated maybe there won't be an impact because they are just following a rubric of questions. it is either a yes or a no. do you meet the criteria or not which would obviously frustrate him. another followup is i think there is this line in the e-mail that really gives us an idea of the administration's thinking as they try all of these different policies against asylum seekers. they basically say that they want immigrants before they even

decide to make this journey to decide there are just too many obstacles and to make the calculation to stay home, which is a policy of deterrence which does not hold up in court. i think that is what dhs is worried about leaking out today. >> of course. it is the policy of deteerns that is debatable in court and could influence judges' decisions. congratulations on another exclusive. >> thank you. >> that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on facebook and twitter. @mitchellreports. coming up, former congressman john delaney on "velshi and ruhle" and here is stephanie ruhle. >> i appreciate it. thanks so much. it is thursday, july 30th. coming up this hour on "velshi and ruhle" president trump's racist attacks, today going after african-american leaders again in what he calls democratic cities like baltimore. we'll break down his rhetoric and what his real strategy could

be. right now we are just seven hours away from tonight's democratic debate in detroit, michigan. we'll be speaking live with contender john delaney about his strategy for the big stage. plus, mitch mcconnell defends blocking a bill to stop foreign attacks on america's elections. we'll look at what the bill would do and break down how russians use social media to influence our votes. first, living in hell . living in hell is how president trump described an american city today. the president is keeping up his attacks on baltimore and democratic congressman elijah cummings. again, calling the lawmaker a racist. president trump is not backing down, actually saying his rants are, quote, good for him. joining me now "the washington post" political reporter eugene