what would you like the power to do?® ♪ done all right. my thanks to jonathan, elise, jen, and eugene. that is going to do it for us this hour. i'm steve kornacki no matter what this teleprompter tells me. and "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts right now. arts right now ♪ well, if it's wednesday, welcome to "meet the press daily." and good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. after last night's rock em sock em free for all, the conditions could not get much better for joe biden. he's got a chance to refocus this intramural fight on the big prize, trump. biden also had a small army of

democrat moderates making the case for him all without biden's name being mentioned once in the crossfire. no dirty hands. by the way, neither sanders nor warren looked like they're going to consolidate the progressive win after last night, which is another benefit to biden. so even as the two of them were to defend themselves, they're still dividing the progressive lane. frankly, expectations are somewhat low for biden, considering his faltering first debate performance. so these conditions, for biden, are almost ideal. but if he falters again, there's going to be a whole lot of panic in biden world. as i said last night, the mod cat candidates made biden's case form. >> we can go down the road that senator sanders and senator warren want to take us with bad policies like medicare for all, free everything and impossible

promises that'll turn off independent voters and get trump re-elected. >> this is an example of wishlist economics. it used to be just republicans who wanted to repeal and replace. now many democrats do as well. >> the green new deal makes sure that every american is guaranteed a government job if they want. that is a disaster. you might as well fedex the election to donald trump. >> to be sure, warren and sanders fought back. >> what do you say to congressman delaney? >> you're wrong. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> medicare for all is comprehensive, it covers all health care needs for senior citizens it will finally include dental care, hearing aids, and eye glasses. second of all -- >> but you don't know that, bernie. >> we'll come to you in a second, congressman. >> second of all. >> you know, i don't understand why anybody goes through all the trouble for running for the

president of the united states just to talk about what we really can't do and what we really shouldn't fight for. [ cheers and applause ] >> heading into tonight's debate, biden and his campaign have made it clear he is itching for a fight. he released an op ed. that he's going to have a lot to say about the president's recent comments referring to trump of course. bottom line here, biden can't handle this tonight under these optimal conditions, there's going to be a whole lot of biden supporters icing themselves tomorrow. joining me from the spin room in detroit, stephanie cutter, with me in d.c. and white house correspondent for the washington post and an msnbc political analyst and donna edwards. stephanie, i want to start with you. you're in remote -- i'll give you the first shot since it's always difficult to have a conversation the way i'm making you have it.

last night it felt as if you had half the field defending the obama years and another the progressives talking about, okay, we got to go bigger than that. how did the moderates do in defending the obama record? >> well, you know, chuck, i look at it a little differently. i look at it as not just the obama record, but the moderate side of the party versus the progressive side. i actually think the moderates didn't do very well. they made a political case about why things cannot be done. they need to make a better case about what can be done and what is the best policy, not about what can be done politically, but why is it the best policy for america. and i think, you know, based on what, you know, from what the vice president put out in his op ed and in his video, i think you'll hear a little bit of that in health care. but you are playing right into the hans of progressives saying

no to things. now if you don't think it's a good idea based on policy, you should say it. >> right. >> and on the flip side, the thing that struck me most yesterday is the progressives saying that if democrats are disagreeing him that we're using republican talking points. i think that's a mistake. the parties shouldn't be doing this to themselves. there was one consistent thing on that stage last night, every single one of those people want to expand health care coverage. they need to keep their eye on the prize. >> well, it's funny you say that, donna, i thought the same thing. >> it was a very process-oriented conversation. they were having political arguments. now, look, the questions were political questions. the questions weren't, okay, how are you going to implement medicare for all. the candidates themselves could've made more policy. how did you see and what did you think of what stephanie said there? >> well, i think that's why it was very frustrating to way last night because i think the candidates, all of them really do have answers to all of these questions about what they're going to do and how they're

going to do it. >> there is soy offer some form universal health care. there's different ways to define, but they all have a version. >> and it would've been helpful for us to see the variations on the theme because i think that's a way that democrats really can make choices. look, i think it's really tough when you're running a primary election, especially among democrats because we share a lot of values and interests. and so you have to distinguish on these very, very narrow grounds, but that would have been the opportunity to do it. and i just don't think it was really kind of allowed for last night. but, you know, i think what we saw are democratic candidates who have the ability to put their policies and plans out there and to defend them. and then they've got the challenge of trying to convince voters that they can also beat donald trump. >> and there was quite a few -- i think there was one member of congress who just said will

somebody talk about saving pre-existing conditions and what trump's trying to do to health care? sort of talking to stephanie's point of eyes on the prize. not a single candidate up there on stage talked about what trump is doing on health care. >> right. and to your point from earlier, that just -- that's perfect fodder for biden. he can walk right in tonight and talk about, you know, what is actually a nationally very popular position preserving some kind of the current system and also preserving the at least the outline and the name of the affordable care act, obamacare. biden is going to take that opportunity and run with it and contrast with what he will be able to donna point's very logically and neatly compare to last night's performance where it all sort of was a mishmash and you basically ended up at the end thinking they were all on some spectrum on the

sanders/warren end of the health care debate, which is where biden is not, and he's going to use that. >> well, michael, if there was one thing that at least was different about this debate last night versus what we saw in the first two nights, is it the diversity of the democratic party on issues, on ideology and sort of how to do it? that was on display where i would argue the first debate it was more -- it felt more homogenous, maybe it never went to be. >> i think it was more homogenous because everybody was doing the how do you stand, where are you moving. and kamala was the only one who came out and decided i was going to swing as well as castro too, but everyone else played it cool. last night there were moments in which i had to look at the screen to make sure there wasn't a republican standing on that stage. >> your fellow marylander john delaney? [ laughter ] >> it was a great moment. but i think to stephanie's point and to the congresswoman's

point, it does speak to some fissure lines that are going to be very important to watch over the next few weeks as this race begins to tighten and the narrative gets a little bit closer to the bone. and i think you will see some of that to your point, anne, with biden tonight, sort of carving a little bit more close to the bone on some of these issues. >> i want to talk a little bit more about certain moments last night and certain back and forths. stephanie, first to you. it's interesting, bernie had it felt like had a better night last night than he did the first debate which, weirdly so, hurts warren, even though she had a good night too because she felt as if she was on the verge of consolidating and bernie said hang on. is that what you read? >> well, i think bernie probably stopped the bleeding a little bit. we'll see whether or not he's able to expand where he is. i think the one thing that bernie did effectively last

night was to remind everybody that the things we're arguing over, whether it's free college or medicare for all, those were his ideas four years ago, and he has set the terms of the debate. i think he effectively reminded everybody when he said i wrote the bill. whether he was able to expand his vote share, i think it's too soon to say. i think for warren who is essentially where bernie is, she made an effective argument. she showed more leadership. he was a little bit angry, all over the place. that's not exactly what he needs to do right now. >> another benefit she had been getting over the last month is i think eating a bit into buttigieg as buttigieg was going down, a little bit of that. i guess the question i have for you, donna, did buttigieg stop the bleeding. and before i get to you, i want to play what i thought was his highlight moment of the debate. >> if you were watching this at home and you were a republican member of congress, consider the fact that when the sun sets on your career and they are writing

your story, of all the good and bad things you did in your life, the thing you will be remembered for is whether in this moment with this president you found the courage to stand up to him or you continue to put party over country. [ applause ] >> all right. that was one of his best moments. before i get to you, i got to play our little mash-up of pete buttigieg did want to remind people how old he was, and he did it quite a bit. watch. >> america is already in a crisis. my generation has lived as long as we have been alive. we are not going to be able to meet this moment by recycling the same arguments, policies, and politicians that have dominated washington for as long as i have been alive. since i was in high school, i was a junior when the columbine shooting happened. i was part of the first generation that saw routine school shootings. we've been talking about the same framework for my entire adult lifetime. i don't care how old you are. i care about your vision. we can have great presidents at any age. by 2030, we will have passed the point of no return on climate.

there could be 130 million more guns on our streets. i'll be in my 40s then. [ laughter ] >> just like, great, okay, thanks for telling -- thanks for reminding me that in ten years you will stilling younger than i am now. did he stop the bleeding? >> maybe. i'm not sure. i think one of the things that he does really well is he reminds us of the values of the party at that sort of 30,000 foot level. >> he's aspirational. >> haven't heard him at the granular level yet, and i think that's really important. and, frankly, there are part of who are part of the electorate. >> who are not 37? [ laughter ] >> and, you know, in some of the ways that he said that could be very offensive to some voters. >> and at the granular level, he's a millennial. [ laughter ] >> yeah, that's true. spoken by a whole of\we're a bunch of anti-millennials here. now we're the old people at the table. let's be careful here. >> but at the granular level, as

we've seen in his home city, it is not gone as well. and how he's handled the granular issues has not been as strong. >> stephanie cutter, steve bullock, i felt like on one hand he had one shot to make a first impression literally and figuratively. it's like he had a picture-perfect game to get into the next debate. how did he do? >> i think he did well for someone who literally just got in, and this is really the first time america is getting a picture for him, a picture of him. he owned a section of that stage last night. that was really important for him. and he knew what he was doing. he knew very clearly conveyed where he stood on the issues. and we'll see, if you know, that's the vision that democrats want. but he basically owned that space. and it was a problem for klobuchar. but, you know, let's see what happens from here. i think that -- i wish he got in

the race earlier. i think he's an important voice to have. he's got a really incredible record. it's a different way of being part of the democratic party and the way he brought people together and still stayed true to some of the progressive issues that he's fought for and successfully fought for. i just wished he had got in the race earlier. the we don't know if it's too late, but we will soon find out. >> i'm going to throw beto o'rourke in there too. i feel like they desperately need biden to crash and burn tonight to find the space here. is that fair? >> right. i don't think they really lost footing between the last debate and now. >> but they haven't gained footing. >> but they haven't gained it either. so i think you're absolutely right. they need to have some of the numbers that biden has been able to add back that he had lost in his polling. they need to fight to get some of that share. >> at some point i promise we'll get to marianne williamson, but

i have to sneak in a break here. stephanie cutter, thank you, great to see you virtually. and michael and donna, you guys stick around. up ahead it's a big night for all of the candidates on stage, but it is a huge night for joe biden. but first from marianne williamson that has a lot of people talking. >> this is the part of the dark underbelly of american society. the entire conversation that we're having here tonight, if you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collect vized hatred, then i'm afraid that the democrats are going to see some very dark days. you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on.

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democrats as well. joining me biden deputy campaign manager kate bedingfield. kate, welcome back to the show and welcome to another debate week. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with you guys have been very open and sort of honest about, yes, you know the first night didn't go well, you guys are ready for this, you expect incoming from everyone, you plan to take the fight to trump. let me ask you this. what if they don't attack the vice president? i mean, it feels like you guys are almost hoping everybody on that stage does. am i reading too much into this? >> you are, yes. i think there's been a lot of discussion of the idea that he is spoiling for a fight. and the only fight he is spoiling for is a fight with donald trump. and, look, if his opponents come after him and attack his record, then certainly he's going to be prepared to defend it. he's not going to take distortions of his record laying down. but, you know, if there is one thing that democrats are unified

around, it is a desire to beat donald trump. joe biden is going to make the case tonight for why he is the guy to do that and why, you know, as president, he represents a dramatic change, a fundamentally new direction from the kind of leadership that we have in the white house right now. so you're going to hear him take the fight directly to donald trump tonight. >> no issue exposes sort of these ideological fissures like health care. how does your team believe the defenders of obamacare, essentially, right, there's about half of the folks on that stage last night were for, you know, modifying the current system versus those that want to totally get rid of the current system. how does your team feel as if those defending the system, some modifying the current system did? >> well, you know, joe biden, that's for the voters to decide how they did last night. joe biden is going to make the case tonight for building on obamacare, building on the affordable care act. you know, it was a truly

transformational piece of legislation that -- >> i believe he called it a bfd last night. >> he did. and he was absolutely right about that. and you're going to hear him talk about that tonight. because people want a leader who's going to be straight with him on health care. it's one of the most important issues facing working families in this country. vice president biden believes we need to build on obamacare. we need to build on the hard-fought progress that we won. i think there's a suggestion which i just find sort of baffling that somehow fighting for the affordable care act is incremental. i would ask those folks where they were in 2009 and 2010, you know, when we were fighting to get this done and get this change done. this is transformational change, and the vice president believes that we need to build on it rather than starting over from scratch. >> i know you've seen the reports that some other

candidates on that stage have been looking back at biden's record in the '80s. the last debate some of his stances on the '70s. i know one of your positions of pushing back is just saying that isn't very relevant. when do you think those positions of his are relevant to this debate? >> look. he's always happy to defend his record. he's been at the forefront of change in this country for 40 years. he is somebody who wrote the violence against women act. he fought to get the voting rights act extended. he has spent his career fighting for change in this country. so he's happy to defend his record. but the question is what are you going to do for people now? that's what voters want to know. that's what debates are about, laying out your vision for the sure. he's laid out a bold climate change plan. he laid out a criminal justice reform plan. and so you're going to hear him talk about his plans for the future because that's what people want to know. they want to know who can beat trump, who can get trump out of office and who has good ideas to move this country forward and

make real progress for people. so that's what you're going to hear him make the case for tonight. >> kate, do you have any problem with your candidate in that you have a double-edged sword, which is many people view him as the safe choice. is that a good place for you to be as a candidate or a bad place to be in the democratic party of the 21st century? >> look, i think when you're the candidate who is, you know, according to the last round of polling the only one beating trump in ohio by eight points, i think that's a great place to be. people want somebody who can beat donald trump. joe biden can make that case. joe biden is the person to do that. and so i think that that's a great place to be frankly. >> but it seems like you do take issue when people refer to that as in you're for the safe choice. you don't want to have it described that way. >> well, i just think it's not

accurate. i think if you look at his record, if you look at his lifetime of fighting for change, if you look at the change that we were able to get done under the obama/biden years in the white house. you look at things like the elimination of don't ask don't tell. you look at the vice president speaking up for marriage equality at a time when political pundits were telling him that that wasn't a smart thing to do. he's someone who's been on the cutting edge for fighting for change in this country his entire life. so i reject the notion a progressive moderate divide. i think voters are looking for somebody who stands for their values, who they believe has good character. i think they know joe biden. they know that's him. they know that if they put him in the white house, he's going to fight for the things that matter to them. so that's the kind of case that you're going to hear and make tonight. that's frankly what you're hearing him say throughout this race as he's campaigning in new hampshire and south carolina and nevada across the country in iowa you're hearing him make

that case. >> kate bedingfield, we will be watching tonight. thank you for making time for us this afternoon. much appreciated. >> thanks for having me, chuck. i appreciate it. part two of the second round of debates is just a few hours away. which candidates will come out swinging? we're going to hear from the harris and booker campaigns next. but first another moment from last night. >> let's get real. tonight we debate but ultimately we have to beat donald trump. we come from a country of shared dreams, and i have had it with the racist attacks. i will govern with integrity, the integrity worthy of the extraordinary people of this nation. humira patients, you inspire us. the way you triumph over adversity. and live your lives. that's why we redesigned humira. we wanted to make the experience better for you. now there's less pain immediately following injection. we've reduced the size of the needle

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welcome back. last night's debate was a spirited discussion about the direction of the democratic party, but things could get a bit more heated tonight. not only about joe biden be on stage, so will kamala harris who went after the vice president on the issue of race and cory booker who's been hitting biden with issues over race for support for the 1994 crime bill. but with me now is ian sams, national press secretary for kamala harris' campaign. ian, good to see you. >> hey, chuck. thanks for having me. >> so, i'm sure you're a bit exhausted from all of the prewriting by all the reporters that say are we going to see round two of harris versus biden? >> um, let me ask you this.

do you feel like your candidate has to go after biden tonight, perhaps the way she did last time? >> no. and, look, i think a lot of this is covered as if it's a sporting match or a boxing bout, but it's actually about the issues that matter to real people. and i think what kamala is going to do tonight is come out and talk about what keeps people up at night. too often right now we get into these debates that are ideological or theoretical and aren't actually about the issues that people are worried about. how am i going to get health care, am i going to be able to make ends meet at the end of the month. my kid, are they going to go to school tomorrow and have a shooter walk in the door and take their life. and kamala has real plans to address each of those things, and she's going to connect directly with voters and talk about the solutions that she's offering for their lives. >> one of the issues that rhetorically has tripped her up has been the issue of health care, medicare for all, her

plan. describe her plan. before i ask you about it and the various different lanes, just simply describe your plan. is it more of taking obamacare and adding onto it or is it a scrapping of obamacare and n starting over? >> well, look. i think that first of all president obama last year said that medicare for all was a good idea. and so this is growing on the success of the affordable care act which got 30 million people covered. it's a great achievement. but there are still millions and millions and millions of people in this country who don't have access to health insurance. so what kamala's done, she supports medicare for all over the course of the last six months she's heard from voters that have said i have some anxieties, i have some concerns about how quickly this is going to be put into place. will it ban private insurance? like, what's going to happen to me? so she's taking those concerns and she's talked to experts and she's put together a plan that does two things. one, immediately everyone's going to have a medicare buy-in.

and in ten years, we're going to have a new medicare system. that medicare system is going to offer a medicare public plan and private plans that can operate within that medicare system just like medicare today. there have been experts and columnists who have come out in the last two days who said kamala's plan actually looks like the most like taking medicare as we know it and expanding it to every single american by keeping the private option playing within that same system. so that's how it will work. we're not going to ban private insurance proactively. if they can play by our rules, we are not going to put them out of business, we are going to give them a chance. but if they can't play by our rules, then i guess they're going to have to get out. >> it does sound like it is an attempt to bridge this divide one end or the other. is that what you want people to take away? >> this isn't a theoretical exercise and it's not ideological. it's about how do we get the best result for american families. right now we have millions of people who even if they have a job, they can't afford to get

health care. they worry about paying a $5,000 deductible just to get their kid taken care of if they're sick. that's not a system that we can work within. she's taken medicare for all and frankly she's approved it. president obama's hhs secretary, she said that this was the best path to get us to medicare for all. so, look, this is growing upon the successes that we've had as democrats over the last ten years with health care and finally achieving the goal that we've had for decades of universal coverage for every american. >> what do you say, though, that to be this disruptive again to the health care system, i don't know if you heard kate bedingfield making the case. >> i do. >> does anybody remember how difficult it was to get obamacare passed. and now basically ten years later you want to start and do this painful process all over again politically rather than building on what's there. some people say, okay, that's not dreaming big, but that is the -- one could argue that is

the reality we're living in. >> well, right now we have a system in which insurance companies rule the roost. they get profits on profits on profits. and they do it on the backs of sick people. that's not okay. and so kamala is going to fight to make a better system for all americans. she knows it's going to be hard. she knows that insurance companies are going to have at it. she thinks that obamacare as it stands right now isn't doing the job? >> we have to expand upon it. even president obama said medicare for all is a good idea. we need to go to the next step so that we can finally get universal coverage with lower or no cost for every american so that they can get the medicare that they need. she went after pharmaceutical companies and won in court for her constituents. so this is someone who knows how to take on a fight and get it done. i've got to ask about the clemson paw print there. are you just trying to taunt

people? what is that about? >> look, i'm an alabama alun, but one of my best friends in the world passed away from cancer last year. so i'm wearing this for him tonight. >> wow. well, i love the reason that you're doing it. so with that be sure to pass a $2 bill around with a paw print in his behalf as well. they'll like that too, those clemson tiger fans. >> indeed. just for you. >> i appreciate that. with me now is sabrina singh, national press secretary campaign manager for booker's campaign. the biden campaign has almost been taunting your campaign, okay, if you want to come after us, come after us. what is senator booker's plan for tonight? >> you know, i think our biggest strategy tonight is to let cory be cory. we have to let him be himself. we have to let him introduce to the voters who are tuning in for

the first time. and one of the reasons i love working for cory booker is he is so real and authentic. the biden campaign might be trying to taunt us and showcase their strategy on how they want to push back. but at the end of the day we want cory to be himself. if there comes a moment where there needs to be some real truth spoken, i have no doubt cory will do that tonight on the debate stage. >> on these various issues related to race, whether we're talking about the '94 crime bill, perhaps senator biden's record, the biden campaign pushes back and says, hey, wait a minute, we want to have this debate about race. how do you criticize each other on some racial issues in the midst of donald trump in the white house? is it awkward to have this intramural fight when you have donald trump in the white house? what do you say to that? >> i mean, just because donald

trump is in the white house does not mean that democrats should not debate the issues that donald trump in fact is bringing up himself. this is a very racially charged environment. we have donald trump criticizing the four congresswomen to elijah cummings as recently as yesterday. this is an environment in which donald trump has created and so the issue of race is very important to talk about and how democrats are going to handle the issue of race if they were to be elected president. i think we have to remember, you know, there is severe racial and wealth income inequalities in this country, and part of that is because of the 1994 crime bill that, you know, really did separate and tear apart so many community in this country. and so i think records are a fair game and on the table. but i also think we are looking for as a country someone to heal our wounds. and through common pain is common purpose. that is also something that cory says constantly. so tonight i think he is going to make that case clear of why he is the best person to defeat

donald trump. >> one of the things i hear from some progressive activists about cory booker is that he talks like a progressive, but he governs too much like a centrist or too much like a moderate or whatever word you want to use that the progressive might think is disparaging of somebody that's not a progressive. what does senator booker say to that criticism? >> i mean, i think he wouldn't even address that criticism. cory governs the way he is, cory. he governs the right way. he believes in fighting for all. this is about restoring justice to our system, to our country. from the time as mayor to the time that he's been in congress in the senate, he is someone that has consistently fought for those communities that were left behind. that is why he is running for president. he is the only candidate on that stage that lives in a low-income environment. that informs the policies he brings to the tables. that really informs, you know, how he is going to approach

being president of the united states. we cannot forget about the black and brown communities that have been left behind not just under this presidency but of those before us. and donald trump is the floor, he is not the ceiling. we can do better, and that is why cory booker is running. >> sabrina singh, national spokesperson there for the booker campaign. thanks for coming on and sharing your and the senator's views. >> thanks for having me. last night we told you about the wave of republicans retiring from the house. well, guess what, the wave is still crashing. what does that tell you about how republicans feel about 2020 and their chances at the house? yet another one is next. you make time... when you can. but sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just won't go away. coolsculpting takes you further. a non-surgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells, for good. discuss coolsculpting with your doctor.

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well, apparently if it's wednesday, we've got yet another house republican deciding not to seek re-election. in an emotional press conference, mike conaway said he will also not seek re-election

next year. saying that partisanship has gotten to be, quote, too intense and that they are more, quote, worried about their jerseys than the issues. he has become the fifth republican in two weeks to call it quits. none of these are in really competitive district. so if being in congress is not a job that republicans want, that could certainly spell trouble for the gop in 2020. if you can't keep current members to run, how do you recruit new people to come on board. just ahead we're going to play hardball a little bit early. chris matthews will be here to talk about what he's going to talk about on the debate stage tomorrow. morrowinsurance, so i only pay for what i need. then i won the lottery, got hair plugs, and started working out. and so can you!

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>> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ welcome back. joe biden is in the driver's seat of this democratic primary for now. but that could all change in a stage in detroit in a couple hours where several candidates will be looking to knock him down a peg or two. joining me is chris matthews, host of "hardball" right here on msnbc. and anne, michael and donna are all here. if we decide, chris, if you haven't filled the gap enough. i'm teasing. the all right, chris, what's biden got to do tonight, and more importantly, do you think he's going to do what he's got to do tonight? >> he has to look like the guy that democrats want to run against donald trump. he has to carry the fight to him on the issues he's raised since the day he announced, which is good and bad. it's a struggle between good and evil about american tolerance

and diversity against the racism. he's got to keep no matter what the question is no matter who attacks him, turn the fight against trump. >> is there -- what should he avoid tonight? you know, he's going to get baited in different ways. which bait should he take and what should he avoid? >> what he wants to do is not follow down into the roads and back roads and streets of newark. he's not to go over after cory booker going after newark because if he does anything about stop and frisk or anything like that, cory, if he's got any ability, he's got some ability, to come back and say you're doing to me what the president's doing to elijah cummings, you're going after my city. it's so easy for cory to do that to and really slam him and make him look like the bad guy. he has to attack from a defensive position. he must defend his position. he talks about how times have changed, how thinking has

changed, how the crime rates in the big cities were horrendous in the mid-'80s, and how the situation was politically and socially indefensible back then. they were tougher on crime back then. and maybe we went too far. but i don't think he should ever go on the offensive. i think that's a big mistake because the opponent always knows more about their record. by the way, he knows more about their record, and he will get stopped in his tracks. >> the other person i think that's going to be in the crosshairs tonight potentially from other candidates besides biden is kamala harris. if she's vulnerable on anything, it's health care. we have put together the mash that you can now do with kamala harris on the issue of private insurance and health care. here it is. >> has not had that situation where you've got to wait for approval and the doctor says i don't know if your nutritious company is going to cover this. let's eliminate all of that. let's move on. >> i support medicare for all, but i really do need to clear up what happened on that stage.

>> it was in the context of saying let's get rid of all the bureaucracy. >> oh, not the insurance companies? >> no. that's not what i meant. >> who here would abolish their private health insurance in favor of a government-run plan?? >> all right. >> once and for all, do you believe that private insurance should be eliminated in this country. >> no. >> but you raised your hand last night. >> the question was would you give up your private insurance. >> donna edwards, i thought actually articulated what he's trying to present as her plan as well as i've heard anybody present it yet. she does have this, it does feel like she's trying to be all things to all people whoever is listening at the molt on the issue of health care. >> when you put that together, it does look like it's kind of all over the map. i think tonight, she's going to have a little bit of vulnerability when it comes to explaining why she's been from one end to the next end on

private health insurance. and i don't know what her answer is for that except i have a new plan and you know, here it is and it incorporated private health insurance. it's complicated for her. >> i would say advantage biden on that. because there are many examples in biden's hong histolong histo he's had many positions. he's not very clear and he can point out she has at least given the appearance of being inconsistent. >> is there a point, michael, where you can come across as too tactical? on one hand, i think kamala harris is being smart to try to figure out is there a way to bridge these divides. you don't want to look like that's what you're angling for either. >> that's exactly right. one of the comments from her first performance was everyone kind of said, oh, yeah, yeah, that was a setup. it was so obvious she injected

herself into a question. >> that wasn't directed to her. i think she tries to avoid that. i think she will be on the defensive tonight. there are other candidates that can look at her record and say okay, we understand how you went after biden. let's peel back the onion what you did with criminal justice in your state. as she goes up the ladder, she's fallen back a bit but she's in the one, two, three four range. the target becomes a little bit tighter on her, as well. >> chris, how are you watching kamala harris's candidacy tonight? >> i think she's a very smart politics and part from the policy that issues we can talk about all night on health care, she's still positioning herself to go either way. i don't know if they need her to go down account moderate lane because biden falters again tonight. she may shift to the right if you will. she also would accept the vice

presidency. i don't care what anybody says. >> so in a way -- >> a former president was willing to take it. >> everybody takes it. >> go ahead, chris. >> you are so good, chuck. that is a real reach. you reached way back for that one. in 19 0, walter con kite, your predecessor was trying to wire that baby. >> that's one way to put it. who else on that stage has to do something tonight that you think has the ability to puncture into -- punch their way into the top tier? chris, i'll start with you and want to get everybody else in on this. >> i'll tell you, a lot of them have their own personal political problems so far. i'm kind of surprised by cory booker's inability to catch on. he's very likable. likability students superficial. charisma is important in politics. you have to act and seem like a leader. he seems like one. i'm amazed people haven't jumped

on the guy. when you spend time with him, you like him. he seems he could be president. i don't know what the holdup is. it's there though. >> i'm with chris. i think we all thought on the power of sort of his personality told at least be in the top five at this moment. >> for sure. he's arguably the best orator in the entire field. >> also the most energy. >> he has the sweep and the kind of historical context for his remarks that biden can sometimes do. but doesn't always. he's got youth and energy. he's a person of color. he's got a lot of potential advantages. and chris is right. he hasn't -- something hasn't, the tumblers haven't fallen into place yet. i think he has the most to gain and potentially the most to lose. >> it's interesting with booker, it is the we campaign nobody talks about. he is running a very good campaign in iowa.

he has done the hard work, he's doing the hard work. what do you make is the reason. >> my theory is the progressive wing doesn't trust him. that's been the difficult, right? there's always been this issue, he's not a real progressive. >> i mean, there is some history there. but i think part of what happens when you've got 20 plus candidates who are each filling each of these lanes, it's really hard for any one them to burst through after that top tier. >> especially trying to be the nice guy to do it, mr. nice guy, did the love. good for him but it's harder to pop that. >> that's part of what's happening here. i don't know that tonight is going to be the place to do that because biden doesn't have to punch down. and cory in order to break through has to punch up. it could get ugly. >> it's ricky with trump's antics this week to go after biden on race. michael? >> yeah, i just think that card

is coming in play on the democratic side and watch julian castro. >> chris matthews, enjoy tonight. it's always fun to watch a debate with you and michael and donna. i'm sure it's fun with you guys, as well. catch chris on "hardball." joe scarborough will join him. he's stirred things up in kentucky these days. trust me. that's coming up at 7:00 eastern right here on msnbc. we'll be right back. 7:00 eastern right here on msnbc. we'll be right back. crabfest is back at red lobster with 9 craveable crab creations. like crab lover's dream with crab...crab... and more crab.

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we are just two hours away from round two of the second month of democratic debates. be sure to stay with msnbc tonight. we'll bring you expert analysis hosted by brian williams. it all starts approximately at 10:30, but as soon as the debate's over, you know where to switch. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press." >> you know, chuck, you know where to switch. you're not asking political junkies to do anything other than switch once they take in the debate. >> them know where to go, man. all you got to do, here's what we know, hit the prev button. we know, folks, hit the previous but the. >> and we have a lot to get to in this edition of "the beat." joe biden, kamala harris heading for a rematch. later, we'll be joined live by marianne williamson the most googled person on stage last night. an