unseat donald trump and when you read the transcripts of those that even as she tried to use they use stamps.com the system to change things for many house hearings with the better, her inability toarr print discounted postage for any letter witnesses, john radcliff was any package right in there asking tough any time questions and he's a good questioner, he's a former prosecutor but he fervently offered a mea culpa for those believed that there was rot at the core of this russia investigation and that's what districts, telling cnn that it donald trump liked about him. was never the intention but what matters more, intent or effect? he was perhaps the least experienced nominee for a major jo intelligence post that i can joining us now is jamil smith. remember and that was before we let's start with that question. learned that he embellished his that idea of intention and what resume, david. >> jennifer, how do we look at happened as a result of the policies that she put in place or in some cases had to put in this most charitably? no republican senators came out place. i guess more broadly, i'm interested in how she's talking against this nomination but there were whispers on capitol about this, how she's framing this. it didn't come up aside from a hill and in the end this didn't happen. do you see that as a check in place, small as it might have quick direct mention by joe been that you had a president biden that first debate. she has not had to fully explain who was trying to politicize in a speech or some other forum this position, put somebody in in the human brain, billions of nefor people with parkinson's, that position who shouldn't be some neurons change their tune, her past in this regard as a all right. in that position and there was we are at the top of the hour. prosecutor. still some semblance of an old >> well, certainly when it comes guard on capitol hill, to these kinds of things, effect republicans and democrats, who said, not so fast, this is a always matters more and i think bridge that you can't cross. that when she's attempting to >> the senate republicans do "up" with david gura. causing uncontrollable tremors. explain this in the debate and seem to have some standards still when it comes to once thought to belost forever. certainly on the stump, i think confirmation, you know, that's why you saw some of the fed what harris is doing wrong is

nominees fall off. so, i guess -- the most personal technologyoo change your life. that she's essentially >> in much the same way, there regurgitating her resume and was a whisper. >> and so in some regard, the >> help wanted, another would-be she's trying to convince people press did the their job, as the that what she did was the right cabinet official calls it quit. >> just like that nomination president said, you vet for me, thing and what i think she needs which i'm not even sure and the withdrawn. >> another failure for the ever to do is contextualize what she press did their job and then, this is "up," i'm david gura did with what she's going to do, chaotic white house vetting you know, perhaps -- i imagine process. that senate republicans made with what she's planning to do >> i give a name. clear, well, you know we can't and president trump was in i give it out to the press. cincinnati this weekend for a support this guy and it fell you vet for me. campaign rally, one of nearly 50 as president. >> a majority of house democrats apart. but i would rather have that i think what she's got to do and i think what i tried to make the he's held since 2018. are now in favor of an spot be vacant than someone who little bit predictable. point in the feature is that clearly is going to undermine an estimated 28,000 supporters impeachment inquiry complicating she's got to make the case that what the intelligence agencies were going to do, which things for the house speaker. shown up but there isn't much what her operating philosophy presumably he would have done as for why she's even in government he did not buy the premise that evidence president trump has grown his base or that his tried in the first place, which is legislate. the russians, you know, and true strategies are working. she's trying to work within the interfered in our election. in his latest column, tim system to change the system, is investigate. l o'brian points out his litigate. >> a house has to do their job. >> vetting has now become performances have been something that's associated with underwhelming. on thursday night he was back in the reason why she needs to be the democrats have to impeach humiliation, as jen is saying, his familiar favorite territory, the president yesterday all but a rally of political supporters president at this particular this president. said this is how it works now. point in time. >> another republican decides at an arena in cincinnati that this is why, you know, this is, not to run for re-election, the. i put a name out there, often really needed to offer much more before my staff knows who that you know, the prosecutor, you name is or that i'm going to do know, the whole -- that whole than what we're accustomed to theme is nice to sell the idea >> they are jumping ship because this and we're going to see what happens, air that dirty laundry hearing from him at these donald trump is that toxic. and see what comes up. gatherings. the president failed to deliver of why she needs to be president and at another one decidedly but i think that, you know, the it is a humiliating task, one his hate. that used to be conducted, i different at the beginning of real reason that she's trying to the week, a signing ceremony in bigotry and his division. would assume, jen, behind closed be in this race is because doors by lawyers and you would the rose garden with 9/11 first she's, you know, that she's even

>> new scrutiny of kamala have people who would either be responders. you do such a good job of linking these two events, linked in government is because she's harris' past as a prosecutor. forthcoming about their flaws or trying to change the system from >> when she was in a position of once those flaws came out might by his self-servingness and within. and that is what i think she narsism but walk us through what needs to try to sell to the power where she could have been be quietly would step aside. we can take away from him this american people. a champion of the people. >> there are no victims in the trump administration. week in those two fora. instead she was the exact opposite. there are only volunteers so you >> at the first responders event >> saturday, august 3rd. want to be humiliated by this he should have quite properly be focused on the grief and the >> ellie mystal, how we regard after the second presidential man, that is your choice. debate the consensus is that there is precedent for what needs of the first responders trump is doing for his style of who the federal government was saying we will finally make you prosecutors today, i'll confide there is no consensus winner. vetting. whole in terms of your medical i've met many former prosecutors >> i think biden did okay. it was called the spanish sitting on this set. inacquisition and you know, it bills. and instead, he began lying this is a moment in which we are >> he did fine. was a trial by ordeal so walk >> he did well enough. about his own involvement with drawing from the experience of the events of 9/11. prosecutors and they're held in was he amazing or perfect or across these coals, if your feet high regard as those who can aren't burned, you get to be he said he was at ground zero. entirely consistent, no. he wasn't, et cetera, et cetera. answer questions about the >> democrats have gone from yes, secretary of energy. he's been doing this for years. investigations that are ongoing. that's basically how he's doing the difference now, he's getting she's playing both sides of that we can to that will do. it. in this campaign, isn't she? if i may channel malcolm nance, held accountable about it the thing that trump is trying because he's president. jamil points this out. to do is right out of the putin but it was this example of him we watched her during the brett playbook. he is trying to decapitate the not being empathetic and not being able to get out of his own kavanaugh hearings being prosecutorial. she was admired for her direct intelligence structure, put in narcissism and self-referential questioning. at the same time there are these party loyalists who are loyal to mode. then you go to cincinnati and other issues that she highlights. him personally as opposed to the you have him on a week in which >> i've also met a lot of prosecutors at this table and >> also with us, a washington country at large and then they're terrifying. he's been a racist, he's been a they're nice people but prosecutors are terrifying. weaponize the intelligence agencies against his domestic they have entirely too much correspondent for the "new york xenophobe, horrible on power in our system. times" and msnbc contributor. enemies as opposed to our immigration issues, completely they operate with impunity. ill informed on trade policy, foreign threats. they operate with almost no the three-time congressman and so, malcolm. but, like, you know, that's what speaking to a rally in ohio in accountability and major things vocal trump supporter, no longer he's doing and that's why he's which his real challenge isn't doing it this way. just to continue to court his happen on their say-so. to be the president's pick to be the ability of a prosecutor to

>> ken delainian, to that point, come in and change your life, the next director of national base and hit these same themes what did we hear from the take your life is terrifying in intelligence. it was clear he inflated and intelligence community this week that he hit that night about as all of this unfolded? hillary clinton's emails and bob misrepresented his resume. our system, and we need to do i know you have sources in the something to rein in their one instance claimed he was a intelligence community and mueller's witch hunt and power. there's been reporting about sue immigrants are horrible. all of those people there were now, can you be a good terrorism prosecutor. gordon, who's the deputy dni who happy to hear that. prosecutor wielding that power no evidence he ever prosecuted a the versus a bad prosecutor wielding that power? should step into this position these swing states. sure. but the issue -- the larger terrorism case. president trump blamed the media once dan coats leaves on the the circumstances that led to issue, i think, is that but after he made the 15th of august, the white house his election in 2016 may not be prosecutors need to be reined in and so when you're going to talk announcement on twitter many as potent in 2020 and he is only pushing back against that. we know how republicans and about harris's record, the expressed concern john ratcliff democrats on the hill feel about going to pad himself against that if he speaks towards those question is -- the question is not so much like she did this was inexperienced and would this. and she put that person in jail. how about within the apparatus about what this signals about the question is, does she have a what might be to come. politicalicize the job. plan to rein in the power of a long list of those vetted >> reporter: they were horrified, my sources, by the strategic interests but here's the problem. it's always a mistake to interpret anything donald trump publicly and had their names john radcliff nomination because does as strategic. prosecutors or does she want to he's a visceral animal and he here was a man with no doesn't really get beyond that allow that power to continue and withdrawn from the president's experience, no understanding of what they do for a living, and into a sophisticated strategic just be wielded better? he was going to be atop the take. there is space on her left but >> jennifer palmeiri, how has administration. the people coming at her are not >> you vet for me. intelligence community and coming at her from her left. coordinating the president's the cultural resonance of those i like when you vet. daily brief so that was awful to the people on her left are cory no you vet. political events changed? i think the white house is a them and they're glad that this you had to go up against them in booker and julian castro and great vetting process. nomination has not gone forward they didn't take any shots at i give out a name to the press, 2016. as you look ahead to this but the sue gordon matter is a campaign to another democratic her. tulsi gabbard took a shot at they vet for me. fascinating subplot because sue campaign going up against them, will they have the same power or we save a lot of money that way. gordon is a 30-year veteran of her. she says, and i'm reading off >> they save a lot of money that magnetism or spectacle that they her website, that she wants to the cia, rose up the ranks, now had back in 2016? legalize marijuana, end cash >> i don't think they'll have the same power. i do think that they will -- bail, and end private prisons. way. the current intel chief who has the principal deputy dni and they've, you know, they're in a

donald trump does not like her for a modern democrat running in very much and there was no valley right now and you saw in 2019, that is like saying, i chemistry there and we were like puppies. clashed with the president on reporting earlier yesterday that '18 in the midterms they didn't all right? have the resonance that they had harris is at least talking about he had decided not to name her the acting director even though in '16. russia. but i do -- i don't enforcing the decrees and sue gordon is supposed to be the the law says that the principal talking about the prosecutor's deputy shall be the acting office and talking about director. underestimate the fact that once the democrats have a nominee policing. acting one automatically but there's a little wiggle room there's a new person to vilify, booker and castro are doing many there is push-back from that by there. when trump went before more things. reporters, he sang a different there's a new person to send her so, like, harris has a record the white house. tune. charlie, let me start there. he said, i like sue gordon, i'm that is problematic in some ways back or lock her up, and they but she also has a vision that you had a piece out in the "new considering her to be acting and what we believe that was was will be -- so i think that will is serious and i don't know that york times" about how sue gordon richard burr and other members give a new fervor for the trump this gabbard person has a would be circumvented. of the senate and senior members of the intelligence community explaining to donald trump that sue gordon has a lot of support rally so i don't think that we serious record the congressman . should underestimate that they and the president on the white on the hill and in the community will still be a force but and particularly the senate will house lawn saying perhaps he is probably, you know, it's like a be very upset if trump snubs her giving her consideration. and fires her and names a squall a what is the latest that you sequel and just never as good as have, the reporting that you the original and they probably different acting person and that won't be as potent at '16. have on where that stands? could bode well for the next >> we have no real indication person that trump picks if he >> elie, i want to ask you about that our reporting has been realizes that, you know, he went the dangers of scraping the a bridge too far here in putting bottom of the barrel in this overtaken by any events with a in sort of a devin nunes crony, regard. if it's tried and true, pulled change of heart by the president out all the stops, there's you know, house republican to something left at the bottom and and the white house. lead the intelligence community. that's perhaps the most we think they are determined not we'll have to see what happens. dangerous stuff. what we've seen as of late, to let sue gordon rise to the but i thought that sue gordon thing was a good sign yesterday. which tim has outlined, he's acting head of the office of >> the other thing i would say, willing to do something spectacular or outrageous david, about this is that i because frankly it's all he has left and he knows it's going to think chairman burr has a lot of get a rise out of the audience national intelligence until the leverage over the trump white in a way that he has not been house. able to over these last few senate finally confirms i think ken would probably

months. >> when he starts bringing out somebody. now we don't know who the the tributes and saying, may the agree. odds ever be in your favor, i potential nominee will be. mean, that's the next game, acting top spy chief will be chair of the senate intelligence important. committee, westminsthe's workin right? like the problem is that i don't that person could be running the mark warner on russia want to suggest at all that his show for quite some time. investigation and the mueller report and warner and burr work they don't like her. she is a long-time 30-year plus very well together and burr wanted to side more with warner rallies are losing potency or they're not as interesting because if he thinks that i that could cause the white house intelligence professional, sort think they're not as interesting of a creature of the deep state a lot of consternation so i then he will just do something think that his word may have terrifying and that's -- and i probably from their vantage think that we in the media run more influence than any other -- point. a seriously qualified than your average senate republican chair. >> that's right and burr came the risk of getting borded with intelligence professional and out in favor of sue gordon. it because we've seen it so he issued a statement sort of often and we have it so baked manager. they would rather have someone backing sue gordon after trump in, that speaking to a basicall suggested he wasn't going to more to president trump's liking in that seat. name her acting so i think >> how did we get to this point? you're absolutely right. we have been down the path >> tim o'brian, last question to before. >> right. you. there was this delicious moment up acolor, women, >> there have been candidates that were put out there, not when the janus face of president trump was in full relief. nominated officially but the dirty laundry has been aired out gays and lesbians, like he's he makes this announcement on there in the white house. >> it is not too puzzling. twitter, blames the lame stream making all these -- media, and then he's on the >> the issue is can he get now for the longest time we were white house line crediting the re-elected doing that? media for doing this vetting for >> yes, that's one of the issues asking are they even vetting the but another issue is that is he him, saved him a lot of money. going to get anybody killed? describe that. folks from the transition that component of his right? so like there's a tension where periods. no, they are not. personality. i mean, watching him there, i kind of agree with you on the the president is picking people

there was a thinly masked unease political side of it, that this he wants to work with and doesn't really work for him throwing them the media wolves or anger over what had happened politically anymore as much as and saying if you can survive here. >> think about when we talk it used to, but on the about this notion of vetting terrifying side of it, i mean, the nomination you will get a radcliff. there's also this thing called like that stuff that he was rose at the end. google and wikipedia and if you doing with omar, like, that's there are so many of them that real. that's real. had googled radcliff, you would and so like, by not kind of have not come out of the other have seen that he was in the side. what is also very intriguing is eastern district of texas when he was in the u.s. attorney's digging in every time and we office there and most of their that many times he thinks the have to -- that's the thing. we still have to put in the cases were patent infringement media is doing a very good job work. we still have to do the work of cases. they were not terrorism or digging in every time and of vetting the people. national security cases. saying, this is racist, this is there we have it. he thinks we are doing a good you would have also found out if horrible, this is dangerous. you had vetted on wikipedia that you know, even though our own job. >> you heard the analysis there lines are getting a bit old. >> tim, we started off talking his biggest case was a raid of a from daily mail correspondent about trump the manager and i want to ask you about intractability and the degree to and bachelor fan. poultry factory and had nothing which he controls these crowds >> i do work with a former and we saw that after that rally to do with terrorism or national bachelor contestant. security. the ceo of the trump jesse palmer. organization got his job because in north carolina, passed blame >> we are talking about sue donald trump saw him body slam on to them. this is the crowd saying someone at the u.s. open and was something, it wasn't me and i gordon, what does that say to impressed. you about the administration's michael cohen got his job as his disapprove. something similar happened at personal attorney because he did perspective on this? trump's handiwork in a this rally in cincinnati. you saw immediately after the a protester had a sign, the pick was announced, members of condominium dispute. crowd turned on him. how worried are you about that, congress and the intelligence radcliff got his job because he committee hoping the president looked the part. a completely his inability to manage or control what's happening in would go through with it and these settings. hope sue gordon rises to the it stems from this aura of position. they expressed fear that would uncontrollability. to elie's point, how dangerous

not be the case. nonideological, nonpartisan way, is that? >> i don't think he >> this is a half of just what are you if you're a authentically wants to stop it. good manager. i think he revels when he you try to hire and retain scaramucchi. topnotch people and you try to unleashes these kinds of racial i feel like every time i am here make sure the best people get the job and then what do you do with you we are talking about hatreds and ethnic hatreds. nominees that have failed. if you're mistaken? i think it's part of what he's you take the responsibility before they formally get yourself and try to grow. what does donald trump say? personally fascinated by. i think when he's on that stage, nominated. alex acosta, he had to resign. he says i had a candidate who he's reveling in his ability to wasn't competent, who we didn't vet and it's the media's fault inflame. and i think, actually, the and then turns around and says there was not enough vetting on the front end by the white house cincinnati rally would have to the media but i'm very wily or the senate's part. one thing about slander and and i let you vet for me. really come to an interesting >> president trump relies on tour turning point if a chant of send rallies to fire up his base. her back or send them back had liable. john ratcliffe was the subject he had one in cincinnati this started, which it didn't in week but has political theater that. when he had another -- he's thrown protesters out of his of neither. become too predictable for the rallies before. some of it was in plainview as president? protesters at his rallies have speaker pelosi under pressure as been punched. a majority of the house they're like brown shirt rallies you stated before on his democratic caucus now calls for impeachment. e house sometimes. congressional website. democratic caucus now calls for impeachment. i think that the issue with this one is what's he going to do now that is the most basic type of that he's given people the vetting to do. script to be just as racist as that is the main reason why his he's being? that now he's given them the tenure was so short-lived. script to be just as hateful as just five days. he's being. will he, in a large forum, stop >> looking at the resume, them and say, don't say that? finding the discrepancies. like john mccain did, for i was struck that no senate example, at a rally in which

attendees were saying that obama was a muslim and a terrorist. representatives came out against it but sounds like there were and mccain said, stop. whispers on capitol hill. this is not what we're about. donald trump is not the kind of >> yeah. leader or human being who's you asked two things. going to tell people, look to the second one first. the better angels of your nature. this is not who we are as a no republican was actively country. against it but they were against donald trump is just going to incent it and i do think and i it in the way that one would be worry about this, even outside of the rallies, i worry that, if it were someone from their you know, that this is going to own party, tepid, chilly spawn all sorts of stuff on the response. we will take a good look at streets of america that is going to be dangerous. that. we don't know this guy but we >> jennifer, last question to you, tim's talking about the will follow the process. script and knowing what the the head of the intelligence script is. we've read the book, we know what the plays are. committee. looking back on 2016 to now, how i think there is widespread, immediate recognition that he different is it now knowing all was not remotely qualified for of that for the campaign manager, the communications this position. director of the winning the other part of what you are candidate for the democratic asking is how easy is this. nomination is he or she advanced in a way that you weren't we did not really even vet this knowing now the whole extent, guy. having read the full script? look at the website. >> it's hard to look at that in a vacuum of everything else that look in the federal case history. that is a two minute search. person's going to know so all of america's going to know what it you can see he put terrorists in feels like for that person to jail and he never prosecuted a actually win, which in '16, no one thought he was going to win terrorism case. you can say that he took so it was a very scary time.

personal credit for the gigantic, you know, sweep of it felt dangerous out on the campaign trail. we thought, you know, we really undocumented immigrants working in a poultry plant. feared there would be violence. he arrested 300 people. you are like this is a and that has not lessened but i multistate operation he had a think what people know is that little piece of. this is crazy. man can, you know, is actually unbelievable people running for president, it's possible for him office would put on their website stuff that is to win. and so i think that that just -- immediately rebuttable with a that sets out a dynamic in, you google search. know, combatting him in a if it is eastern texas, you can re-elect on all factors, not get away with it. just how you confront rallies once the national media takes a look at you, you are going to but, you know, they -- you get caught. can't -- i think the, you know, >> worked in heath, texas where one thing is like we would see he was the mayor for some time. that much hatred in '16 and we let me ask you about this. this is an indication of the would think, america is not pool of talent and who the going to elect that man president is pulling for. >> only the best. president. it's just not going to do it and >> why would anybody jump in to it did. this now having seen what has so, you know, in '20, that happened here. the president described his campaign is going to look at that and know, you know, mechanism for having the folks those -- that's the kind of publicly vetted, but it ends bad hatred that doesn't get every single time. >> there are people that are extinguished in america and that's what we're here to

willing to jump into the pool. defeat. >> senator kamala harris saw her because at the end of the day what this is ultimately about is presidential prospects rise political loyalty, about showing after going on the attack against joe biden. loyalty to somebody like donald now senator harris finds herself playing defense over her own trump with the hope that there record as california's attorney is going to be a large is the p? general. the criticisms and her response next. neral. the criticisms and her response next (mom vo) it's easy to shrink into your own little world.escially thes. is it a position? perhaps. is it perks of the job? if you make it through the (dad) i think it's here. process, and if you can prove to (mom vo) especially at this age. the president that your first (big sister) where are we going? concern is whatever he needs it (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there. to be, you are go a go-to (little sister) woah... (big sister) wow. see that? (mom vo) sometimes you just need a little help seeing it. person. you are a stand-up person. (avo) the three-row subaru ascent. you are going to defend trump to love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. all costs. there is going to be a space to you. i said this before, reminds me get zero percent during the subaru a lot to love event. of suge knight and death row records. this is essentially what is happening with trump and with this is "up" i'm david gura his people that he is picking. the other thing, the president made it quite clear that what he and the list of democrats wants to do is to reward his calling partner impeachment is friends and punish his enemies. getting longer and yet speaker

if you are willing to go through that process and make it through and come out on the other side, nancy pelosi seems unmoved. he will celebrate you. undeterred by the growing pressure from her caucus, he will reward you. but that also if you don't make speaker pelosi has urged democrats to keep their focus on it through the process, that he is going to do his best to say other congressional tasks at hand and to exercise patience you are still a good person and saying, "to protect our there are things out there for democracy and our constitution, you. i am going to put the democrats in the congress continue to legislate, accountability back on the media investigate, and litigate." she continues, in america, no saying there is nothing wrong with you. one is above the law. the president will be held even as this very simple google vetting has come out. accountable. steve joins us now, an msnbc political correspondent and the even through the simple vetting author of "the red and the blue." steve, help us understand this process the president has said moment so much as it is one, this is a witch hunt. he is a very good person and a having this now the 118th congressperson come out in favor very talented person. of the proceedings beginning. how does it change the this is kind of what we are conversation if at all? heading for. put yourself in the head of >> slamming the media and nancy pelosi. how does it change the calculus crediting the media for the for her. >> it keeps the conversation going and i think the big variable right now is these vetting. >> we do the vetting. >> from the bachelor to suge members are back in their districts for the recess, let's see what happens at these town knight. charlie, appreciate you getting halls. i know some folks who are for up early with us on this

saturday morning. impeachment have tried to draw a lot to get to this morning parallels back to the tea party including the mass exodus of summer of 2009 when republicans went back to their districts, republicans in the house. heard from all these people who were very upset about first, nancy pelosi finds healthcare, came back determined to stop it. herself in the minority and how there's a similar dynamic at play in the impeachments. she is pushing back against an i think this is a -- the calendar is an issue here, impeachment wave that is gaining steam. t an impeachment wave that is gaining though, because they're not steam. going to be back, basically, until labor day. granted. when you hear democrats talk about what impeachment would look like if they went down that only pay for what you need. road, they talk about a ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ nixon-style impeachment which lasts like ten months, not a (groans) clinton-style impeachment which hmph... (food grunting menacingly) lasted ten weeks and if you kick when the food you love doesn't love you back, off a ten month process around stay smooth and fight heartburn fast labor day you are taking with tums smoothies. ♪ tum tum-tum tum tums yourself well into an election year. this is a president facing the ♪ how do you like it, voters next year. when i see pelosi use that ♪ how do you like it ♪ language, when she says ♪ more, more, more accountable, i think what might be in her mind, ultimately, is ♪ how do you like it, how do you like it ♪ the election in 2020. all you can eat is back. >> how good is that parallel how do you like that? looking back to those healthcare applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. town halls. it's harder to wrangle cats when

they're back in their districts. ♪ >> pelosi would not start impeachment, you know, prior to the august recess, like why would you start that fight and corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, have everybody disappear for a which is breast cancer that has spread month because i think you do -- to other parts of her body. there are people that want to do the 8 to 10 month, that does she's also taking ibrance seem not the best route to me. with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women i feel that -- i was there for or for men with hr+ / her2- metastatic breast cancer the clinton impeachment and it this is up, i'm david gura was -- it started in october and and a quick update here. it was done in december. president trump has been in as the first hormonal based therapy. and i do think that sort of ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective recent days at the encouragement of his wife and others captivate process would be preferable here bid the case of musician a$ap at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. than having to -- having it drag rocky who had been detained for out. i think pelosi, who i believe is patients taking ibrance can develop the political -- the true weeks in a swedish jail. low white blood cell counts, political genius of our time, is the new york rapper is back on which may cause serious infections u.s. soil, landing in los keeping her options open so she angeles around 2:30 this e, tell yourblood cell counts, doctor if you have fever, has -- you know, and that morning. chills, or other signs of infection, overnight, nbc obtained a letter statement she controls what the from the state department urging standard is. she says, we are not going to liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, swedish prosecutors to resolve or plan to become pregnant. move until the committees have the case quickly or face, quote, common side effects include low red blood cell completed their work and we're negative consequences. ready to go but she also is and low platelet counts, control of what that actually is asap can remain in the united infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, so she can decide at any moment, states until a final verdict is abnormalities in liver blood tests, announced. okay, we're ready to go, or she that is scheduled to take place diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, on august 14th. could decide, you know, she's back in the u.s., democratic vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. also left the option open that candidate kamala harris faced accountable means that we're some tough questioning during

corey calls it her new normal close to the election, and we'll because a lot has changed, the latest debate about her record as california's attorney let the voters decide. but a lot hasn't. >> steve, how much does the -- general. ask your doctor >> senator harris says she's proud of her record as a about ibrance. we see chairs of these the #1 prescribed fda-approved prosecutor and that she'll be a committees going along with 11 oral combination treatment prosecutor president but i'm for hr+/her2- mbc. committee chairs say thaer in deeply concerned about this favor of impeachment, catherine record. there are too many examples to clark says she's in favor of it cite but she put over 1,500 as well. people in jail for marijuana oral combination treatment that'smr. arson here only knows how to blow sh... up.. violations and then laughed does that say anything about tension at the leadership level? about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana. >> i think there's the question no offense, she hulk here only knows how to smash. too of they're saying they're in favor of it but are they upset with her for trying to she blocked evidence. she blocked evidence that would [ screaming ] accommodate folks who maybe have have freed an innocent man from look at the two of you. different set of political the fate of the world is in your hands calculations, you talk about death row until the courts and you can't even get along. democrats who are potentially forced her to do so. going to be in swing districts >> as the elected attorney what do you think i'm stupid? next year facing re-election, of course i think you're stupid. general of california, i did the woo! it's a different kind of judgment for them to make right work of significantly reforming i got him. no i got him. now. and again, that's why -- the the criminal justice system of a other factor too that pelosi has no i got him. state of 40 million people, to think about is, has the math changed at all in the senate? which became a national model for the work that needs to be done. in the republican controlled and i am proud of that work. senate. you could put an impeachment >> well, senator harris has through the house, the parallel apologized for some of the decisions she made as to '98 that i do see is you could put an impeachment through california's top prosecutor, urging voters to focus on her as the republican house but there were never going to be a criminal justice reformer, but still many progressives have two-thirds support there in the concerns about her past. u.s. senate. that still seems to be the case in a new notes right now. and does that -- you have to ask

yourself, if you're pelosi, let's say, just totally speculating, if in her heart of hearts she wanted wanted him to lose in 2020, is there a part of her that has to wonder, what does trump do with an acquitting in the senate? does he go around saying, i've been exonerated all obo those calculations if the math isn't going to be there. >> ellie, you're a man who prizes morals over math, maybe passion over politics here. how do you see that camp that you're of making inroads when you look at the number 118. >> i'm really glad they're over half and i would just like to point out that they were elected in 2018 and it's taken them 18 months to get to half. are you kidding me? what did i vote for? i voted to hold this president accountable. you're saying that he could be held accountable by election. i know that. in the constitution, he needs to be held accountable for the crimes that he has been committing and so when my welcome back to "up." problem with her statement is i am david gura. not the he will be held a california congressman became accountable. it's when she says, nobody's above the law. the 118th house democrat to call

oh really? the hoe's not above the law he needs to put his behind in a for an impeachment inquiry. chair and start these hearings. >> to see it time and time to your point about the math in the senate, i think that the again, the fact that this issue is do we want to run in president and administration 2020 trying to figure out why have ignored all of the subpoenas put forward by 100 or so democrats cannot congress, i think ultimately is what did it. figure out how to hold the we saw too many instances where president accountable or do we want to figure out how 50 or so this president either directed or attempted to obstruct senators refuse to convict a criminal president and i think justice. i think it is important we get putting it on the senate is the all of the facts around the better campaign footing than putting it on the house democrats. >> jen, let's look at the other incidences so we can see what side of that coin that he's really went on. >> they want the congress to bringing up there. enthusiastic democrats. >> my personal view is that the pursue impeachment. the ranks grew by at least 25 congress should do their job as laid out in the constitution and after the special counsel robert they are the check >> regularly, day after day after day. >> he should have been impeached a while ago and if the acquit mueller testified on capitol hill. this conversation here having crossed a new threshold. but the house should do their job. and i also think we can't know what the senate would do in the washington post reporting the -- you know, the republicans

that nothing can come of this. >> it is a milestone and gives hung in there with nixon for a very long time. he's -- he resigned in august them another talking point and they were in june of '74, saying we have a majority. they were still supporting him. >> 75% of republicans still speaker pelosi's main job right now is not just maintaining the supported until the smoking gun tape came out. that's what turned people majority but making sure in 2020 against him and i think that's one of the tricky things about they are growing the majority. an impeachment inquiry is we if you hold a formal vote on the don't actually know everything house floor you are putting your yet. we know the president broke the law. he obstructed justice, clearly, moderate members that come from and there were campaign finance violations but there's a lot of right leaning districts. other stuff that mueller didn't explore that an impeachment inquiry would get to that the american public doesn't know you are putting them in formal about yet. >> i think mueller sort of laid that out, right? there are these open questions that were for congress to look vote on starting an impeachment at as chairman schiff at the mueller hearing laid out that he's the chairman of the house intelligence committee and he's inquiry. like, all of these open speaker pelosi still does not questions about, is the want to put them in that tough president of the united states position, and it is unclear if perhaps compromised by certainl they even have 218 votes to start that inquiry. impeachable questions that congress would look into so i think you can'tinhe next block, the speaker made a leap when she someone who's been calling for endorsed language in a court impeachment for months and who's putting a lot of money behind

filing that says we are considering whether to exercise that is tom he's joining me tomorrow. our full article i authority. and still ahead this morning, she has been upping her rhetoric raucous rallies have come to define the political identity of on the issue but hasn't moved president trump but have the president's public performances sustainively on this. become predictable, even a little boring? this is more of a milestone that tim o'brian tells us more about that next. tim o'brian tes llus more about that next. t's gonna go down. is probably not going to move you're my sidekick. speaker pelosi any time soon. i'm nobody's sidekick. the pro impeachment crowd is [ "psa" by jay z ] worried that the window is such a diva. closing. >> to protect our democracy and woo! constitution democrats in the congress continue to legislate, investigate and litigate. who is the audience for a statement like that? to the caucus to get in line? >> nancy pelosi always has a message to everyone. there are layers to the message. it is about trying to moderate and trying to balance the different factions of the democratic party.

there are various wings. those wings, some are more outspoken than others. they have different types of abilities. from the very beginning nancy pelosi always has said that in order to move forward with impeachment, the pieces would need to be perfect. there would need to be more than enough evidence. not just the necessary but above and beyond. i think also there is a growing audience amongst a broader democratic populations that want the democrats to either put up or shut up. >> make the decision. >> make the decision. if you are going to keep hammering these ideas and dancing around it, symbolism can only go so far. so, you have to do something on impeachment or move on and stop

talking about it. people want to see something in terms of accountability. i think that one of her statements there in particular, it maybe aimed at gathering the people together and reassuring them that there is a possibility even though i am upon nnot doin right now. >> the mueller testimony, the statement he delivered a few months before that. more than two dozen democrats voiced support for moving forward with impeachment. more than 75 have done so since he took the podium at the justice department. your sense of how much it moved the needle. >> i am pretty surprised, right. everything coming out of it is that we didn't learn that much more. mueller did not give a great performance. but so many people since then say we support it now. i think time is running out if you are going to press forward with it. it does not make a lot of sense to bring impeachment against a

president in 2020 as we near the election. i think that sends a signal if you think the only way to get him out of office is to claim he obstructed justice. that sends a signal you don't believe your potential candidates can beat him. there is a sense of getting to 2020, it is too late and you should focus on that. i do think the 2020 candidates also feels that way. bernie sanders said his fear is that if you bring it forward and the senate doesn't vote for it as they won't, then donald trump will say i was cleared. because i'm not guilty. i was exonerated. it is a great talking point. he will carry that in to the election. they don't want him to be able to do that. >> let me ask you lastly.

i have read the full mueller report. the president knew the rules and broke them. he cannot be above the law. that is why it is time to open up an impeachment inquiry against donald trump. there is the political calculus coming up. i detect a greater comfort among democrats to make the moral argument. >> exactly. a lot of this is activist-fueled. nancy pelosi is on the side of public opinion. she is looking at the polls and public opinion. it has to be no longer politically advantageous. most of the folks, hillary clinton won their districts by double digits. it is not a politically perilous decision to make for most of

them. >> we will leave it there. tomorrow on "up" tom steyer is going to join me sunday at 9:00 a.m. eastern time on msnbc. how a wave of republican retirement is making the house gop look more and more like trump country as the party braces itself for a possible disasterous 2020. disasterous 2020

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this is "up." a surprise announcement by republican will hurd he will not seek re-election in 2020 could leave the g.o.p. without anyone with a representative representing the u.s./mexican border. congressman hurd is the sixth house republican to announce a retirement in the last two weeks, eight in total announced their retirement this year. that will make it more difficult for the gop to win back control of the house in 2020. republicans need to flip 18 seats to hold on to the district in texas that congressman hurd represents.

they called hurd a lockstep supporter of the policies. sealed had his fate when he pledged to vote for donald trump in 2020. democrats will win this seat and if will hurd does not believe he can keep a job in texas, his colleagues must be cngg too.pan here. david, let me start with you if i could. >> sure. >> this line in the "new york times" stood out to me. after the 2020 election senator tim scott of south carolina will be the only black republican incumbent in congress. a startling statement. i want to get your reaction to it. what this retirement says to you about diversity in the republican party today? >> i say imagine that. a party continuing to isolate

and marginalize communities of color. finds themselves not being represented by people of color. this is the doing of the republican party. every generation has the future of the republican party or republican of color if you will. will hurd we had someone the republican party could be proud of with a distinguished record in the intelligence community, thoughtful on policy. at times willing to tike take o president but this is the party of donald trump, not the party of will hurd. a party of personality. not ideology. republicans know their prospects are getting bleaker of retaking the house on an individual basis. their own re-elections are now in jeopardy. every time the president unleashes a torrent of grieveius politics that might seem right

for him, he jeopardizes the few remaining seats that reflect the seats that he lost in 2018. this is a tough road for republicans going in to 2020. few are pretending they have a chance to take back the house. >> it was never my intention to stay in congress forever but i will stay in politicals to grow a republican party that looks like america. the author of the book the -- let me draw from your experience reporting and researching on this. your sense of what it means. pick up on what the congressman said there on how he is in on remaking the party something that any american can find a home in. >> the loneliness of the black republican indeed. this is a monster task, essentially an impossible task. i think will hurd understood

that particularly after his breakaway vote on the four congre congresswomen in president trump's statement. essentially his party is no longer -- it was always in trouble and on shaky ground. but his party is not that diversity party that the report talked about in 2012 and 2013. the party has gone in an explicit direction that is hellbent on shrinking its base. shrinking its diversity. really focusing on white constituents. there is nothing there for somebody like will hurd. there is nothing there certainly for his constituents for his latino and black voters. he really has a challenge against him. what we should also be paying attention to is that increasingly in the past couple of weeks and months will hurd

has been vocal about this position, the difficulties that he is facing. how there is no room for someone like him left in the republican party. they have been bleeding people of color. this should signal that there is another watershed moment happening. that a significant transformation is occurring as the republican party becomes the party of trump and what that means. >> i talked about the district that he represents. they had a tough week. good news at the end of a difficult week. >> yeah. >> help us understand what it says to them about their strategy and what they are going to do differently now they have the eight retirement announcements. >> many districts are these suburban battle grounds where moderates and women fled in 2018. that is the biggest advantage they have as they try to take back these seats. i was thinking back to something that the president said the day after the 2018 midterms when he

was essentially dancing on the political graves of the moderate republicans that lost out. carlos cobelo. mike kaufman, a white guy but a moderate. the president was essentially saying they lost because they were not in line with me enough. that couldn't have been further from the truth when you look at the political dynamics in their districts. the head of recruitment for the nrcc, susan brooks, she is jumping ship too. what does that say when they are looking at whether to jump in and help back republicans take majority in the house when the head of the party is jumping ship. >> david jolly, i will turn back to you on that. how much of this is about recruitment vs. --

>> the litmus test centers around trump. that is where we find ourselves. if you are a republican all-in for trump, sure, you are willing to give it a shot. particularly coming out of 18. republicans lost the seats that hillary had won that they were holding and now the map is reversed. you have 30 seats trump won now held by democrats. the end of the day we focus on trump. when we talk about communities of color we focus on issues of race, color, issues like baltimore. the reason republicans struggle with communities of color are not just about the politics of race but policy. health care, taxes, education, immigration. go down the list of the priorities to all-americans, particularly communities of color. republicans look the other way with early childhood education, a tax code that benefits communities of color and homeownership for those trying to get ahead. immigration policy that is

thoughtful and humane. issue after issue on policy priorities. the republican party abandoned the priorities of communities of color, and until they re-assess their policy priorities they will never get them back. >> i remember andrew the press conference you referred to very, very well. i asked the president at that press conference about jeff blake and he told me i retired him. congressman, my question is whether or not you think so many of these people are leaving because president trump is the one retiring him. and whether you have a sense talking to former colleagues how many more might retire as a result of donald trump and his policies. >> i think we will see many more retirements. clearly those unwilling to fully go along with the politics of trump face the greatest challenges. we have to bring in the human

component for a member of congress. it is an honest and/or privilege to serve. they are not due empathy or sympathy but serving as a member of congress in the minority as a back bencher under a donald trump administration can be a miserable experience. you have little opportunity to do anything, all of the increasing demands to raise millions of dollars for you and your party and you are probably sleeping in your office away from your spouse and kids to live through this cycle of rage i have no control over that the president dictates every day. it can be a miserable experience when you miss your kids growing up. people like susan brooks, she probably said i did my time and my best. perhaps i will leave it to somebody else. always good to s with you. thanks very much. tomorrow gina ortiz jones will join me.

she is as she is running again. analysts agree she has a good shot at turning the texas district blue. she will be here tomorrow on msnbc. how donald trump strong-armed his way to lowering interest rates and looking to intimidate his way into even lower rates when we come back. even lower r when we come back. we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today. and a cockroach can survivelife. heresubmerged ttle guy. underwater for 30 minutes. wow. yeah. not getting in today. terminix. defenders of home.

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challenges facing us. a majority of americans agree on the solutions. but corporate money is standing in the way. i'm tom steyer. i approve this message. because our democracy should work for the people. this is "up" i am david gura. although the economy is in

decent shape, the federal reserve decided to cut interest rates this week and this is a big reason why. >> trade policy uncertainty has an affect on the u.s. economy. >> during a news conference that lasted almost an hour mentioned the fact of president trump's trade wars two dozen times. >> monitoring the trade uncertainty. trade policy developments at time have been disruptive. trade uncertainty. down side risks from weak global growth and trade policy uncertainty. >> president trump has been trying to strong arm the federal reserve for months. this week he saw an opening after the fed chairman said the rate cut was justified by trade tensions it makes sense the president would be attempted to create more of them. trade talks are continuing he wrote on twitter and starting on september 1st the u.s. will put

another tariff of 10% on another $300 billion worth of imports. that is a decision reportedly opposed by the treasure secretary, u.s. trade representatives, president's economic advisor and national security advisor. the uncertainty that president trump is capitalizing on, one thing is certain that the new tariff will hurt consumers. it would cover smartphones, clothes, toys. there are 29 days between now and september 1st and there is a chance president trump could strike a deal with china's president at the g7 a week before then. but it is not clear if the president wants the uncertainty to go away, at least before the fed makes their next decision on interest rates in mid-september. joe biden did not get high marks for his debate performance this week. how the crowded 2020 field is inching its way from one debate

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yeah...yeah, this is nice. hmm. how did you make the dip so rich and creamy? oh it's a philadelphia-- family recipe. can i see it? no. philadelphia dips. so good, you'll take all the credit. ♪ corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+ / her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection,

liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. corey calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance. the #1 prescribed fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. if i get the nomination, i will win michigan. i promise you that.

i will win pennsylvania. i will win ohio. we are talking aboutrwe hillary with a margin of over 3 million votes. >> challengers have their work cut out for them. a post debate poll has the former vice president in the lead, 32% of democratic primary voters backed biden. bernie sanders more than 10 points behind him. followed by kamala harris and the rest. the next debate will be held in houston for about a month. this is who is qualified at this point. the next one will be the first opportunity to see several of the top tier candidates together on stage together at the same night. after this week's debate president trump gave us some of his analysis. >> i watched elizabeth warren.

elizabeth warren has a big lack of credibility. i think kamala did not do well. biden did okay. he came through. he came limping through as i say about sleepy joe. he limped right through it. probably down to four or five of them. >> you were in detroit for the big event. >> he is going to put me out of a job with that analysis. >> your sense on who made it through of the folks that had the strongest nights. >> i think in terms of most improved performances. marianne williamson. i think cory booker had a very strong debate. he came well prepared learning from the first debate with one-liners. when he was attacked he was able to dish it right back. i also think that elizabeth warren had a pretty strong debate. she has adopted the strategy of letting bernie sanders take all

of the spears because he wrote the bill and she walked away from that even though she has the same ideas. >> andrew, your perspective on that as well. >> all right. i keep thinking back to steven colbert went from yes we can to eh, he's okay. do you want someone to be inspired by as a 2020 nominee or someone that can get by and beat donald trump. that guy probably is joe biden. he referenced the midwest. the close margin of victory that donald trump had in michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin. joe biden feels like he can connect with those folks and that is his strategy in terms of the general election if he ever gets to that point. for the more progressive side if you want to try to run up the tally and run up the vote among the base among african-american voters in particular. it is a different strategy for the general election and something to sort out.

but joe biden carved out his lane as much as he could. >> i want to get your sense of this, how it built on what we saw in the first debate and even some of the argument that came up in the first debate came up in this one. how up again. how did it further the evolution of some of these candidates or the dynamic between them? >> sure. i think before we even get to that, we need to tease out, there's been all this news that's come out that's shown that black people, people of color are the base of the democratic party. they are the most loyal constituency, they have the highest levels of turnout, they are the group that you really, really need to come out in strong numbers in order for democrats to win the 2020 election. and so, what we really should be asking and what we really should be kind of moving forward is thinking about the debates within that context. so what are you going to do to move that base out? i mean, republicans think about it this way. they've thought about it this way for really generations so what are you doing? what are you talking about?

are you talking about the policies? are you talking about the issues, that kind of thing. and moving from a position of that as opposed to fear. fear of what republicans will do, fear of what donald trump will do. so that's one. two is, i think if we look at the longer spectrum, the person who has been a standout, a pretty consistent standout has been elizabeth warren. we've seen her numbers go up in the polls. i mean, the audiences consistently rank her amongst the top performers, we've seen her numbers rise in the polls. she is on the upswing. she is the person, i would say, to watch right now. but in addition to that, i think one of the things that is becoming much more obvious in all of this is that several of the candidates are not trying out to become president. they're trying out to become, you know, vice president, to become cabinet members. i mean, i think he was quite clear about where he would like to be and this is -- we're starting -- we should be starting to look at what kind of pairings would become really strong and really effective. so, i think once we put that,

you know, are we talking about something like a warren-bernie sanders ticket? are we thinking about yang who had a surprisingly strong night earlier this week? are we thinking about these things in a different light and i think as the group starts to narrow, we can begin to have a better trajectory. >> a point about elizabeth warren, though, is that you were talking about the next debate. she might not be able to follow the same strategy as she has in the past two debates because now that she's considered a front runner, those attacks are going to start being turned on her and she's going to have to start defending her own record a little bit more and she is also going to be put in a position of, can she stand up to donald trump if she's the person on the debate stage against him? and so, i think -- i do think that's something to consider with her. but as far as joe biden goes, there was a point at which bill de blasio, i believe, said, you know, if you're debating -- if you're going to be debating like donald trump, he's not going to

give you a pass on this. and i think that's what democrats will start looking at as well too, who do you want on the stage with donald trump in the end. >> i want to spend some time talking about the role that barack obama, the former president, played in the debate. i'm going to read a quote from the former chief of staff, from the "washington post" this morning, taking the democratic candidates to task invoking him so much. he writes, this election is not about obama. he said over and over again that our progress is never complete. dennis also writing, i get that presidential primaries can get heat bud the debate we witnessed this week where several candidates attacked one of the biggest assets democrats have as we head into the 2020 election was a missed opportunity. speak to that, if you would. you were surprised that he was the focus as much as he was and what that means, the way in which he was regarded that debate on wednesday night, particularly. >> absolutely. he has a, i believe, a 95% popularity rate among democratic voters which is insane. of course not surprising but you don't want to go against barack

obama particularly in the type of race this is right now but i was struck by one thing that joe biden failed to do on that debate stage. he was taken to task of a president obama's record on deportations and he didn't really have a solid answer and i think it was bill de blasio who was continuing to press him on the question. he had a really simple response and i almost wanted to blurt it out as i was watching. the simple response is, the obama administration prioritized deporting folks who were here illegally that had criminal records. that is something that everybody on all sides of the political spectrum agree on. if you're a felon, if you're a criminal and you're here illegally, you probably should not be in this country. that's what the obama administration prioritized. the trump administration has thrown that strategy out the window and they're viewing here being here illegally as the crime. that's the number one crime in their mind. that was a really easy retort for joe biden in that moment but he failed to do it and i think that was the best way to defend barack obama's record. >> just about barack obama,forw

role that he wants to play, we talked about this letter from 150 former staffers of his standing up against the racism we've seen from this current president. what role do you see him playing? what role should he play here as we make our way to the election? >> democrats are in a tough situation in regards to, i think, president obama because opt one hand and this is the easy answer, he's incredibly popular. i mean, he will most likely have a book coming out right around the 2020 election. michelle obama's book is now the best-selling autobiography of all time. they are incredibly popular and there has to be a way to harness that and whoever they choose to endorse, that has -- that is huge. >> seismic. >> but on the other hand, they do, you know, any candidate that wants to run is going to have to address the kind of -- the flaws of the obama administration-era

policies but i think there is a way to do both and there is a way to say, okay, i embrace barack obama, you know, but i have -- i did have a problem, this is how i would do this policy different. that would get exactly to what, essentially, the constituents are asking for so there's a way to say, i really like barack obama and i really want him to be part of this. >> nuanced critique. we've got to leave it there, please tune in tomorrow. chris is going to be here along with joy williams. that is sunday starting at 8:00 eastern time. also have a big slate of guests tomorrow with congressional candidate gina ortiz jones, one of the most outspoken advocates for impeachment, tom steyer will be here. coming up in the next hour, how another cabinet withdrawal is shedding light on the massive vetting issues in the white house as the president admits he's using the media to do the

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i'm david gurra.

five days after president trump announced he was selecting radcliff, he withdrew his name from consideration. the two-term texas congressman said he made the decision because, "i do not wish for a national security and intelligence debate surrounding my confirmation, however untrue, to become a purely political and partisan issue." that announcement follows allegations he exaggerated his qualifications for the job by padding his resume. in the end, this may have been because republican lawmakers had begun to signal they were not enthusiastic about the president's pick, citing john radcliff's lack of national security experience. now that radcliff is out of the picture, president trump says he will announce another nominee shortly. the question is, will it be someone with deep knowledge of the intelligence community as senator mark warner suggests, or will the president pick an ally? up with me this morning, the executive editor of above the law.com and a contributor to the nation. jennifer, who was presiecr and the communications director

for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. and tim o'brian is the executive editor of bloomberg opinion. and with us from washington, my colleague, ken, who covers intelligence and national security issues for nbc news. ken, let me start with you and ask you what was appealing about this candidate to the president. it wasn't the resume featuring the fudged line about how he was a u.s. attorney, it wasn't about the terrorism prosecutions, that warrant. it was about that meeting in the ray burn building. >> reporter: that will be no surprise to our viewers who follow this issue closely and it wasn't that four or five minutes in the mueller hearing where john radcliff attacked robert mueller and attacked the premise of the mueller investigation and accused mueller of violating the special counsel regulations and mueller didn't really defend himself. it was weeks before that and for months, radcliff has been a member of the amen chorus of house republicans who have been attacking the premise of the russia investigation.

their concern appears to be not so much that russia attacdhe 2016 election a t

jennifer palmieri, let's talk about personal history. kamala harris going against joe biden on his personal history, his political history. now hers is in the open and being looked at in this way. how -- what's your prescription for how she should talk about that or how she should have voters -- how she should demonstrate to voters why she did what she did and what that represents about who she might be as president. >> first of all, jamil's piece, the "rolling stone" piece is terrific, it's a really thoughtful profile and does contextualize all of what she did. i thought that, first of all, gabbard is there to be a spoiler, to be a suicide bomber and she keeps going after kamala harris on different issues so i think she is trying to just mess with kamala harris. i do not believe she's on the level. but in terms of -- but i thought that harris in the time she had handled herself pretty admirally and defended her record. in terms of how this just to, you know, analyze how it may play out in the field, we need

to acknowledge that the vast majority of african-american support is behind joe biden right now, right? there are progressives, there are black progressives, there are white progressives for which criminal justice is a big issue and i think harris did well on the debate stage and will continue to be an issue for her, she'll probably need a, you know, more of a reckoning with it, perhaps, on the progressive side but right now, like we do need to always be cognizant that that support is still behind joe biden. >> you know, when she called biden out on bussing, all biden needed to say, i think, was, i'm sorry you had this experience as a young girl. we don't want any young people of color to experience this in the united states, we can do better. when she gets all the out as a prosecutor, there's two incidents people are raising, she cracked down on truancy and didn't take into account faulty crime lab, you know, evidence that was tainted. she could simply say, you know, i thought it was wise to crack down on truants because i grew

up in a family in which my mother was present and i think families should be present with my children. i now realize this was a horrible way to get there. the crime lab stuff, sheshds the process fell apart, i'm sorry it fell apart, i know i can do better. >> that is what she says about truants. that is what she said. >> but she can say it on the debate stage. >> i don't know -- i believe for the debate -- remember the debate stage, remember, like, there's a lot of people watching that debate. i think for the debate stage, she handled herself well and didn't go down in the weeds and you com w fighting it out, doing the best that she thought she could do and making the right decisions and for a wide audience, that might be what you want. >> there's a moment in your piece where you tell kamala harris that she's asking for a lot of trust when she asks black people and other americans who have been marginalized to believe she can change the system. when you look at the hills she has to climb here, how tall is that one. >> i think it's a pretty tall hill and certainly you're asking people who have been beaten down by a system that is really, you

know, built systematically to marginalize them, to undermine them, to essentially, you know, make sure that they are lesser than or treated as lesser than, and you're asking them to believe that you, regardless of whether or not you are a black women, you could be a white man, are going to go within that system and change things for the better for them and i think that is a big ask, and certainly i think that she understands that challenge. and i think, you know, to the earlier point, she understands -- it seems like she understands not just the power that she had as a prosecutor but also the power that, you know, she would have as -- she would be granted as president to try to, you know, make that change. and at least, you know, from what i understand she's trying to convey to the voters exactly, you know, the degree of that

challenge. and i just think that she's got to start making, i guess, a more effective, affirmative case for what she's trying to do. and i think she's been doing it really since the first speech that she made in oakland when she launched her campaign in january. >> early in los angeles, we're especially grateful for you getting up early. jamil smith of "rolling stone" joining us this morning. it's a great piece worth reading. new polling suggests the democratic debates did little to shake up the field of candidates. where the 2020 contenders stand and where the party stands next. and where the party stands next. hmm. exactly.

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senator bernie sanders continues to dominate the money game among 2020 democrats. $38 million raised by the sanders campaign. pete buttigieg, elizabeth warren follow with biden in 5th place, and the reviews are in for this week's debates in detroit. dan balls writing in the "washington post" the reality is little changed as a result of the debate. the absence of a clear winner and the absence produced a status quo ending. i read the column about the tuesday debate and the wednesday debate. they were so radically different. he seemed so dispirited about what happened or didn't happen in wednesday's debate. how do you feel about that, the cohesive message? >> primary debates are long divisive and democrats fault. and that is what primaries are

so everybody should just get over it because it's going to continue to happen. what was happening on wednesday, there's a couple of reasons why you saw that. why you saw so much fighting. one is you had a number of candidates that are trying to make the debate stage in september. >> they needed money to do that. >> they need the donors to do that. it's time to have their moment so that they can try to reach the 130,000 donor mark. that's why you saw unproductive fighting going on. the second thing that's happening is there are, particularly with biden, having a big chunk of the moderate voters who have a very large number of candidates going for a small slice of the very progressive electorate. you see people pulling to the left in order to appeal to that base, and i think that is why you, you know, that's why we have that reaction on stage and it is concerning because i know if you watch that wednesday debate, that debate made sense to only the people on stage,

like really it only made sense to the people on stage. i could barely follow what the fights are about. we're very, just trying to attack. they're using issues to attack each other's character and record. i'm sorry to say, i don't think the september debate, i don't think we'll watch that and be like that's way better. >> tim o'brien, in the "washington post" this morning, upset about how much obama was invoked in that debate, this election is not about obama, is it? to what degree is it? >> the election should be about delivering proper immigration policy, health care policy, economic policy and jobs to the american people. i think democrats are on really bad ground if they're going to make it a referendum on barack obama's administration. it becomes a circular firing squad. that's not what they want. i think it's healthy that people are debating these issues. democrats have to get the message clear, and the message should not be i'm stepping away from what barack obama did.

>> i want to ask you the same question about president trump, there wasn't a cohesive message about donald trump. >> you can only answer the question in front of you. the moderators are sitting there being like the candidate to your left says that your mama is so fat, trump wants to her erect her on the border. can you talk about your border policy. his mama is so fat. >> you can say i'm going to ignore the premise of the question, and what i want to do with america is this. >> i think that's what they should do. moderation matters. >> maybe not with you. you don't moderate. tim o'brien, thanks to all of you for being here t. tomorrow, chris lu, michelle goldberg and mike pesc. and congressional candidate gina ortiz jones, running to replace will hurd, and one of the most outspoken advocates for

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