el paso where they are desperate for blood donations because of that high number of good evening. wounded, two locations, south mesa street and zaragoza street. i'm ali velshi joining our msnbc special coverage from philadelphia. we want to bring you the very it is worth noting while we do latest on the breaking news out not have a good idea of the of el paso, texas, tonight, where at least 19 people are shooter's manifesto yet that that is something that local authorities and the people who dead and 40 more are injured live there are very concerned after a mass shooting at a about in speaking to people walmart and around the nearby there on the ground they're cielo vista mall. going to be working on family officials so far have not reunifications, but this is a confirmed the status of the place that has a large number of migrants in the city. remaining people who were injured. el paso police say initial calls they are afraid to seek out help about the incident came in at from authorities. it is complicating the situation about 10:00 a.m. local time. there on the ground as police that's mountain time about noon move to sort of clarify what happened and work this scene, eastern time. and that there were between family unifications are trying and being attempted to go on now, and that is something that we're going to have to keep an 1,003,000 shoppers in the eye on in the coming hours walmart at the time of the because, of course, this is a shooting. law enforcement sources tell nbc city that has been on the front lines of the migrant crisis. news that the suspect is worth noting this city does not 21-year-old patrick crucias, a want to be defined that way. this is a beautiful american resident of the dallas area. sources familiar with the city that is taking care of investigation tell nbc news a migrants that are coming up from south america. second person has been taken it is unfortunately now another into custody by authorities, but

in a long list of cities that it is not immediately known what will be defined unfortunately by role, if any, that second gun violence. one more thing worth noting because in spending a lot of individual played in the time there i was struck by shooting itself. the former texas congressman people open-carrying weapons. beto o'rourke who represented el so when i hear law enforcement paso became emotional when talking about the difficulty of addressing the shooting this going into that mall because there were so many guns there, afternoon. >> we know that, um, there's a that is absolutely true. this walmart sells long guns, lot of injury, a lot of suffering in el paso right now. they sell these weapons of war. so i can only imagine for law enforcement entering this mall in an open-carry state, you're i am incredibly saddened and it going to be coming across a very is very hard to think about confusing situation with a lot, a lot, ali, of armed individuals. >> right. we don't have any confirmation on what type of gun was used this. um. >> beto o'rourke was in las either, nor about this vegas. he has said that he is heading manifesto. but the point you make is really back to his family in his interesting, cal. hometown of el paso. police made a point of saying joining me by phone now former that they don't know about injuries of people who transported themselves to the nypd bill bratton. hospital or didn't go to a hospital because they may have he is an msnbc senior law some fears. we don't know about that, but there may have been people there who might not be migrants, they enforcement. often it is at a place of work

or even at a school where sadly might not be undocumented. they might be documented kids go through active shooter mexicans who were shopping for drills. the day as evan pointed out. this is a different situation that is a destination for altogether. walking into a walmart. mexicans, it was a sales tax it was a special sale day holiday so they were able to go there and shop. we're going to keep on that and between 1 and 3,000 people in an you're going to help me with that. area. when we talk about police cal, i appreciate that. frank figliuzzi, let's talk about the fact that we are still heading into a situation about waiting to confirm that there situational awareness, police was a manifesto posted, we are still waiting for confirmation going into a situation where they don't know who the shooter from authorities that it was the is, who victims are. person they have in custody who tell me about how this would posted that they believe it is. have all unfolded. they are not yet drawing >> well, increasingly in conclusions. i guess that's police work. america, police officers are they want to look into it being trained to do just what carefully. but there was some sort of a manifesto. there was some sort of an you described that they no opinion posted if they are able to tie it to the person they longer will wait outside to go have in custody, that would in, they try and engage the explain the heavy presence of shooter and shooters and take the fbi on the scene? them out if they can to reduce >> well, the fbi would normally the potential impact on loss of surge resources into any mass life. and that's exactly what appears shooting like this. for the crew here today. but the fact that this shooter police investigation into this has been identified and that is multifaceted as you can we're seeing reports of very appreciate, fbi, local law disturbing social media posts

enforcement. law enforcement sources are that seem to point toward a indicating that one of the possible domestic terrorism potential reasons for this motivation would actually shooting may be learned from a potentially cause the fbi to become the elite agency. we are not there yet. i understand the restraint and message posting earlier in the day shortly before the shooting respect that's being shown by that they're investigating. it's on one of those message both law enforcement and journalists. but i find it ironic that i was boards for channel 8, and this on the air with alex witt today individual may have been the one discussing a "new york times" that posted a message earlier in editorial that i wrote predicting violence based on the day before the shooting on that message board. racial hatred and rhetoric from some of the motives may be contained in that that they're the white house and the now examining. president. yoay yep. we are now seeing reports of disturbing social media posts by >> that the individual in that this shooter. case on 4chan. i hope they're wrong. i hope these posts are not directly attributed to the shooter, but it looks very, very and the young man today may have bad right now, ali. >> frank, i heard kendis saying before i got on air we're 215 characters

post their messages of hate days into the year, and we have disenchantment. so law enforcement is in fact 249 mass shootings so far this checking into this to see if it was from this young man that is year. you were tweeting about this earlier. these numbers are staggering. now bean taken into custody. if so, it may have the rationale the number of times you and i are on tv reporting about things like this is staggering. in his mind as to what this it's not things we plan for, but shoot wag all about. it does have a feeling of being >> and we are trying to run down entirely out of control. when reverend al sharpton says the reports of a manifesto or it's time to stop the prayers, posting of some sort. when a reverend tells you that but would that explain why the fbi is involved in this? in saying it's time to take >> certainly the fbi would have action. but we had one of these last the most extensive capabilities week. they come and they go and nothing gets done. in the country to basically look >> we had two of these last into this. my former agency has very weekend, one in brooklyn, new york, and of course the garlic extensive capabilities also. festival in gilroy, california. but fbi, the national level, look, if we found out that 19 would have the best. people died from ebola in an but, pursuing, if they american city, we would mass all can connect this posting to this resources to counter an outbreak of a virus. young man, even i this is a crisis. talking with them during the it's a uniquely american crisis, and we're not doing enough about interviews, they'll have some it.

one of our colleagues, analysts, jim kavanaugh from atf was on potential motive that have been disclosed in this posting. >> commissioner, we are looking with me today. he was astute enough to identify at the video on the screen on the weapon from his observation the bottom right side. >> it was a walmart and an of a photo posted. he said it looked like a adjacent mall filled with thousands of people. they say 1 to 3,000 people, when kalishnikof reiffle. police enter a situation like this, this is the thing that police worry the most about, that is is not designed for sport, target-shooting or right? there is a lot of activity. there are people panicked. there are people yelling. hunting. it's designed to kill people systematically. how do police know how they deal with this situation? this is a preventible tragedy. because what they can't be doing is going to a place like this and it may be, if there's anything to come out of this, spooked and shooting the wrong the fact that we're in a people. this is about as difficult a political presidential campaign situation as you can imagine for where this is going to get a spotlight where people are going to have a national discussion first responders. >> what you're describing is just that, the most difficult and demand action, hopefully when you go into a school, will spur some people to take action. but right now we're not treating walmart, airport terminal. this like the crisis that it is. we trained extensively on these types of situations. >> frank figliuzzi, stand by, thank you for joining me. officers are trained, for example, when going in that you i should mention we have 19

dead, maybe an excess of 40 do not stop to help the injured, the dying. injured. and there has been a call for you keep going to encounter the those people in the region. gunman, and let others that are obviously if you live in the region you're probably watching coming behind you deal with local news. those individuals. but if you know someone in that the idea is to stop the shooter area, there is an urgent request at all costs. for blood donations. it came out from the el paso the scenario as you're seeing on police account. but we do know that the red those videos is compounded by cross is on the scene. the fact people are hiding. people have been transported to in the cas texas, it's an various hospitals. there are blood donation open carry state. centers. the red cross is there people can only walk around with administering first aide. joining me live on the phone is former housing and urban weapons. so it's quite likely there were a number of people in that small development secretary and presidential candidate julian that were authorized to carry weapons that may have been castro. secretary, you also posted that displaying them. so officers running into a information because you have a lot of followers on social media situation like that are in texas, but more importantly concerned that they might be you tweeted that the attack is a encountering innocent civilians tragic reminder of our its with firearms in addition to the shooter. most basic duty to protect it's an awful, awful situation for any law enforcement person american lives. we need gun reform now. to have to face. there are going to be people who tell you that today is not the certainly an awful situation for day to talk about that, but when any citizen that is caught in the midst of that turmoil. one wonders whether there is also trying to clear the scene space to actually have these conversations because we have

after the fact during the had more mass shootings this search. people are now trained to run. year than we have had days in you see many in those videos the year. >> yeah, ali. there are people who say that, and of course our thoughts andil running, hide, and fight if necessary. the hide is a concern also members of the victims and to because people hide in place so they have to check every one of the city of el paso. those stores. it's a wonderful community. people are reluctant to come out of restrooms, store rooms, even but we need to talk about it, the police are outside saying and more than that, congress we're the police because they needs to take action. what becomes clear and clear and just don't know who to believe. the turmoil and we'll have many clearer is that the only way that we're going to address this stories in the day to come, personal stories from victims, issue, this problem in our personal stories from people and country, where we see more of personal stories from the police these mass shootings all the about what went on there. time, is to pass common sense gun reform so that you're >> commissioner, stand by. limiting the capacity of these we do have reporting now that we can tell people about, a number magazines. you make sure that people who of senior law enforcement shouldn't have a weapon in their officials believe that the suspect in today's shooting hands don't get it with patrick wood crucias posted a universal background checks enclosing the loopholes to make manifesto online just prior to the actual shooting incident. sure that people who have committed domestic violence, for investigators are examining a posting that they suspect is instance, aren't able to get a from him, but they have not gun in their hands, red flag officially confirmed it. they say it's too soon to draw laws that identify people who may be a threat to others or any conclusion from the posting themselves and intervene early.

about a possible motive. making sure that we have a i'll come back to you in a renewed assault weapons ban. moment. the commissioner and former and i want folks to think just commissioner of the nypd, bill bratton. very, very briefly about this. i want to bring evan mcmorris you have a whole group of people in, he was with the local who say that the solution to representative, the this is for people to be armed. congressional representative from el paso. evan mcmorris santoro. this happened in texas where there's concealed carry, there's open carry. the governor of texas not too he was at an event. long ago bragged that texas has the second highest rate of gun what can you tell us about where this took place and what the reaction has been locally? purchases. and yet in a state in a place >> yeah, hi, ali. where this governor certainly acknowledged between 1 and i was with representative 3,000 people in that store that veronica escobar. people are carrying weapons and there's security there, that didn't deter him, that's not the answer. the answer is actually to limit and she was giving a normal the capacity of magazines so that with an ar-15, you can't schedule townhall talking to her get off as many shots as these constituents across town from people are able to get off and where the shooting took place. better yet to make sure that and she had gotten the question weapons don't get into the hands

about gun control from a texan of the wrong people in the anto. who considered himself a gun owner and was concerned about the amount of guns and some of the gun rhetoric that goes on it's not close to el paso, but here in texas. give me a sense of the dynamic. and then she had a question you obviously knew el paso well. right after that, and while she was answering that question, she this is often held up as the was approached by staff and she example as many texas cities are, but el paso in particular, stepped to the mic and said the the example of what cal perry police were informing her that was talking about, two lungs in she had to go home because there was an active shooter across the same body, the city of town at the shopping mall, which juarez on the mexican side, el paso on the american side, a of course now we know was at the walmart. so the crowd had to disperse. remarkable amount of interchange the reason why she had to send people home was that all law enforcement in the area was between the two of them. being moved to the site of the he had dinner in juarez. that's the sort of thing that shooting. so people sort of got up and happens in these border towns. very orderly in a very kind of, like, orderly calm fashion, that creates an additional left, went to their cars and they headed to their houses this mall, this was a shopping holiday, sales presumably. tax holiday so it was filled she left to get briefed by local with mexicans who were in that walmart. law enforcement and she headed some people are referring to

to her district office to be that as the mexican walmart. briefed. but it was remarkable, just tell me about the dine a.m. yic given the fact that this is sort in a place like el paso. of what the kind of day this >> el paso is a beautiful community. it's about 600,000 people now. but it's part of a region that was. it's incredibly hot because it always is in el paso. includes the city of juarez. for so many years it has been a people were just going about their daily business. i went from the townhall where bilingual, bicultural region. the congresswoman was to the you have a flow of people who go, whether it's for education walmart site and i met with a lot of people who were down there doing what you do at purposes or to buy stuff on both walmart on a saturday. sides of the border, that has they're buying toilet paper. been impacted, frankly. they're buying paper or whatever. they found themselves in the there's less of that now than middle of the situation. there was ten or 20 years ago. and so congressman escobar is you have families that have family members on both sides of that border. now, she's in the middle of and i think that frankly trying to do a lot of border politics and now she finds representative o'rourke herself in the middle of happen in that community with america's gun control politics. >> this is remarkable. everything that we have going on, and at least we don't know and you are right now in el for sure, but perhaps some of paso? >> yes. i'm right now in a car heading the motives behind this shooter from one part of el paso to the is it's very sad, but more than next. we are leaving the site of the anything else, it's a reminder shooting where most law that we need to actually take

enforcement is pulling out the action, that congress needs to local police department has changed it from an active crime take action. scene to now a homicide >> we are momentarily going to get more information on that investigation. and much of the law enforcement has left the scene. manifesto and whether there is a it's remarkable in el paso tie between that manifesto and the man in his 20s who is now, because there are so many law enforcement agencies here including border patrol, i.c.e., homeland security, fbi, they who is in custody. were all there, and many of them secretary, in the reverend are pulling back now. so we're pulling back as well to al sharpton. do some more reporting around you said something just before you left air. you said it's time to stop the town. >> so tell me this, evan. prayers, which i've never heard it's quite close to the a reverend say . u.s./mexico border. i don't know exactly how close i think the point you wanted to it is to an actual border crossing. make is that prayers are not but the walmart and the adjacent going to stop people shooting cielo vista mall were, in fact, other people. >> i think people have been too destinations for people who come across the border from mexico to content to say let's pray for shop. spend any time in el paso, and the families, pray for the you'll find that this is a town injured, pray for our first that is deeply tied to the border economically in every responders, which we should all do. way. and some locals told me that but then get up off our prayer this walmart is referred to as knees and do something about it. how many shootings, ali, do we the mexican walmart because many people from the mexican side of

need to see? three in one week. the border come across to the the amount that we've seen, as walmart. if you're looking at the parking you said, of shootings this year lot, the land you're seeing more than the days in the year. behind you in the distance is mexico. this is part of how this community is so deeply tied into we cannot just keep being so removed from this and act like, the border. that's actually part of what okay, i said a prayer for escobar is doing as a member of everybody and that's the length and width of my responsibility. congress. in the days prior, the reason -- we need to stand up and demand something happen. the days prior to this shooting, i think what secretary castro the congressman had brought down said is very eye-opening. a large group of house democrats down here to go tour the border he did this for whatever the and learn her vision of what she manifesto made to say if it is thinks needs to happen here, understand the border. his manifesto. they all left friday, and then he did this in a carry state. they are not afraid for whatever she was here working with her the motive, whether it be mental constituents, and this happened. health or other purposes. but that's true. they're not afraid of people uarez across the border. tied having guns. so we've got to sit down as leadership in this country, whoever's in a public position, elected or not across all lines people from this community go to and deal with we are in a juarez and people who are from critical crisis and this can't keep happening. juarez go to here, and that kind of commerce was underway today. >> and you brought up first >> it's almost an integrated responders.

economy when you look at juarez and i just want to point out that this is about as difficult on the mexican side and el paso a situation as first responders on the american side. there's a lot of interplay. can go into. you're going into a crowded mall >> i'm going to juarez on thursday. it's easy to do. on a sales tax weekend where >> it's a common occurrence. people are -- there are extra evan mcmorris-santoro. people there, thousands of people, in a carry state where you don't know who the shooter i'm for the difficulty i had in is and who the potential victims introducing you. are, and you are trying to he was with vice. prevent mayhem. he was at an event with veronica and so our thoughts do go to the escobar who is the congressional first responders. but to the point that you make, representative for el paso. let me bring in nbc news reverend, the numbers are staggering. the number of americans who want correspondent cal perry. certain regulations on guns to and msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi who has try and establish who gets them been focusing on this as well. and who is safe to have one, not gentlemen, thank you for joining me. cal, you just pointed out to me, in contravention of the second amendment and the right to bear you sent me an email that this arms is staggering. is five miles from the border it's an overwhelming majority of and that conversation that i was americans. why do we continue to have this just having with evan about the conversation and yet meaningful legislation is not forthcoming? integration between juarez and mexican consumers residents and why do you believe it's just not business people and those in el passer, that is familiar to happening? >> i think that we are dealing anyone who knows that region or with many of our political knows el paso that there are leaders that are intimidated by

mexicans in and amongst americans in that area all the the gun lobby, the nras and time. others and people that are >> yeah, absolutely. this is a border town, and misusing the meaning of the people who live there say that second amendment. the second amendment gives you a it is two lungs in the same body. right to bear arms, but we have that is how they describe the city of epaso and the city of a first human right, the right juarez. i'm happy front end of to live. and to live in an environment where people that have issues, the migrant crisis. mentally or that have other motives, cannot get easy access to weapons that can kill masses of people. 19 people are dead today in el paso, and as far as we know, one person doing that. we need to understand why we think it is necessary in a human society that is supposedly civilized that it's all right for those people to have those kind of weapons and not even deal with things as simple as dealing with the identity of what people are supposed to have established when buying guns.

we don't want background checks on people buying weapons and buying other weapons, but we want voter id for people to vote? there's something sick about that, ali. and the more that this keeps happening, the more we need to raise the level of awareness that we need to challenge leadership. democrat and republican, elected and not to come on and stop the nonsense. people are dying two and three mass shootings a week. >> the people get commoditized. that's the problem. there are numbers that we attached to sutherland springs or las vegas or newtown or gilroy or now el paso. there are numbers of dead. they are not people whose stories we know because so many of them get gunned down, mowed down by bullets that their stories don't get told. >> their stories don't get told, then you have people every day in the chicagos of the country being shot down. it does not -- those stories are not told.

we then put up the number of dead like we do in a score at a ball game. these are real human beings. the people that went to that mall today in a no-sales tax day went to take their children shopping to go to school. look at your child and say, wait a minute, it could be my kid. we've got to stop it before this. >> reverend, thank you. we will come back to you. we are expecting two press conferences. one from the el paso police department and again i want us all to think about the work that has been done by the law enforcement and first responders, medical, fire, fbi, federal law enforcement and local law enforcement and texas state law enforcement in responding to what must be for those of us who don't think much about being law enforcement, just think about going into a walmart or a shopping mall where there is gunfire, where there are bodies, where you do not know who's carrying a gun and you are trying to prevent the

loss of life or the further loss of life. we are going to hear more about the person in custody and a manifesto that was posted. we are also going to be getting a press conference from the hospital to get an update on the injured. remember, 19 are dead. more than 40 are injured. see we're going to get an update on that, and authorities have called for blood donations. they do need blood donations. so if you know someone in that area, often in these situations we all feel helpless. well, people in the area can help by providing blood donations. we are going to get more information into this manifesto on the other side. i want to take a quick break. we will be right back after this. our special coverage of the shooting in el paso continues on msnbc. who they're texting with, all of that. it's a win for all of us. (vo) the network more people rely on, gives you more. like plans families can mix and match, including the new just kids plan. that's verizon. stop struggling to clean tough messes with sprays. try new clean freak!

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that fuels a lot of hate in this country. >> senator, are you saying that the president is directly responsible for, you know, mass shootings in these kind of attacks on people? >> no, i'm not. the individuals that do the shootings are responsible. but what i do think is that his rhetoric has fuelled more hate in this country. >> minnesota senator and presidential candidate amy klobuchar addressing the shooting in el paso earlier in las vegas. i want to bring in nbc news reporter ben collins who has been looking into the suspect. ben, there has been talk of this manifesto. they have found a manifesto. police are not yet confirming that the manifesto was tied to

or written by the suspect that they have in custody, but that seems to be the working assumption at the moment. what do we know about this manifesto? >> yeah. so law enforcement does believe that this is manifesto. they haven't confirmed it, but they believe it. it was posted on hn, which is an extremist website hours before the shooting, it was deleted shortly after the shooting happened. it's a wildly anti-immigrant manifesto. it's three pages of hatred against immigrant and people view it basically as invaders to the united states where they believe -- and people generally on this extremist forum where these people get radicalized believery and it's being replaced by mexican immigrants. and in his case he also believed in automation. so it is a racist and anti-immigrant manifesto that was posted on a site known exclusively for that. and this is not the first time this has happened. the christchurch shooter who

killed 49 people posted his manifesto on the same website 4chan a month after that christchurch shooting there was a manifesto posted by the synagogue shooter. and last week the gilroy shooter, he told people that has been posted to 4chan literally a hundred times. this is a real issue. there is a body count associated with this website now. and i think people are going to start having to look into it. >> there's a body count associated with the website. you and i have talked about this really in the wake of almost every shooting that we've -- every mass shooting that we've covered. for our viewer who's don't understand 4chan and 8chan, what are they? >> they are extremist for yurms. they used to be people where people could post things about art. >> it was a big anime website to

start. it was created by it is a wildly racist place on its politics forum was simply not enough for them. it is legions worse. and it is exclusively a place where people post about the upcoming race war basically. that's where today after the shooting the shooter is viewed as a martyr. that's what they're talking about right now on that website. this is a place where -- >> yeah. i'm going to interrupt you in a moment because joe biden's going to be speaking in las vegas. he will be reacting to this. but let me ask you are there bread crumbs or footprints leading up to this manifesto? i know that's probably secondary in what you're looking at. but as of now, was this a stand-alone or was this person active on this forum? >> this is an anonymous place basically. but if he knew how to get there and upload a pdf to their

website, which is what he did. in fact, he messed up uploading the pdf at first and posted it again. he knew what he was doing. he knew exactly what he was targeting. it's a call to action. it's not simply just his believes in stuff. he's saying i'm a part of a much larger thing. that's what this is about for these people. it's about taking down immigrants. and he is wholly aware of that i'm sure. >> all right, ben collins, stand by. when you get more information, please let me know. i believe i'm going to go to pete williams. pete buttigieg is talking. let's listen to him in las vegas. >> death sentence for thousands of americans. and, two, white nationalism is evil. and it is inspiring people to commit murder. and it is being condoned at the highest levels of the american

government. and that has to end. the first time i became aware that our country was under attack, like, most people in my generation i think was 9/11. and for a hot minute, we all swore up and down that we were going to be different, that it was going to change us and that being attacked was going to bring out the best in this country. that's what we said. so how about this time. we've got decisions to make here. right now i just saw a picture before i came out here. they are lining up down the block in el paso to give blood. [ applause ] just like they did here after october 1. and they're doing that because you feel like at least you can do something. they're close to where it's happening so at least they can do something. so can we if we have the courage. but we've got a decision to make. are we or are we not prepared to

stand up to the corporate gun lobby, and are we or are we not prepared to stand up to the evil of white nationalism in this country? [ applause ] and i'm sorry, that's off topic, i'm very proud of my labor plan. >> you'll have plenty of time to talk about that. >> and it's great and you'll love it, i hope. but i just -- that's the only thing i can think about as i walked onto this stage. but i am obviously -- >> mayor pete buttigieg talking in las vegas as we have been dipping into a lot of candidates they are in las vegas for a public service forum. we will continue to get reaction from the candidates in las vegas. i was just talking to ben collins about what we believe to be the manifesto posted by the man who is in police custody, a man in his 20s who is from the dallas area. police understand that the manifesto exists on 8chan. because it's an anonymous forum, it's not exactly the same as seeing a posting on facebook

where you can identify the person, verify that it was them. and even then police wouldn't j ump to the conclusion that that person is identified with that page posted it. but with these anonymous forums there is an extra step, and please don't want to get out ahead of what the evidence says. but the working assumption is that the person in custody posted this manifesto. let's go to pete williams who is following this. we've also heard from the attorney general wet, pete, william barr. >> i would just like to make a plea at this point that we stop calling this thing a manifesto. that seems way too grand for something like this. that's just a word i think we should all try to avoid. but they're certainly looking into the background of this suspect, patrick crusius. they say he's from allen, texas. that's a dallas suburb. they're fairly confident that he wrote this essay on the internet and posted it about an hour or

so before the shooting. and as you were discussing with ben, it also expresses support for the two deadly shooting attacks in christchurch, new zealand. -- >> pete, i'm just going to interrupt you for a second. joe biden has now taken the mic. i'll come back to you. >> i believe killed individuals. and from the picture that they showed me from the internet that came out on the computer, it looked like he was kind of

insinuating -- that he's in custody. enough is enough. there's been enough. it's been enough for the past five years. ladies and gentlemen, i have a terrible opportunity and responsibility to meet with every single family member who were murdered up in sandy hook and also in florida. and it is so gruesome. i actually spent time with the law enforcement because they said we needed help. it is very difficult.

this is serious. this is not something that we should be tolerating. and, folks, i am not going to do it now, but the fact is, you know, we can beat nra. eliminate the -- what goes into a gun because you remember what happened in columbine. a hundred rounds. i come from a state because a lot of hunting in my state.

and, folks, even nra members know better. they know we need numerous background checks. after those events i just referenced, we put together a proposal. folks, we can do this, we can in fact -- the world is changing, the country is changing, and we must, my one priority when i am president will be to go after this stuff. we can make sure that no weapo itfingerprint of the person who

purchased that weapon. it just says you can't have a weapon unless you pass a background check and if you do, you're the only one that can fire that weapon. why in god's name do we not have requirements that they are not liable as well. [ applause ] >> all right. we're going to continue to monits i want to go back to pete. pete, i interrupted you to go to joe biden. interesting comments from joe biden talking about the nra. we had just heard from mayor pete buttigieg talking about white nationals and we heard from amy klobuchar about the tone coming from the top.

then you had an interesting comment about not calling what this posting is a manifesto. you sort of referred to it as an essay largely because it's not a lot of deep thinking, but it is a bit of a call to rm as. we haven't sort of disclosed the topics in there yet. and we heard the attorney general talking about, you know, the fullest extent of the law or whoever the perpetrator is facing justice. put this all together for us. what are we dealing with? >> so just to go back on that. i think we just have to be careful not to make sure that our reporting turns out to be something that inspires others. that's all i'm saying. it does appear that the crusius, the suspect that authorities believe posted this on the internet about an hour or so before the shooting. and it traces back to an attack that was carried out in denmark in 2011. that has been used as a touchstone to inspire many other

attacks including the one in new zealand earlier this year. as for the weapon, authorities say it was an k-47 semi-automatic assault-style rifle. so the atf is working on figuring out where it was purchased and whether or not it was bought legally. for now the police in texas aree in charge of this investigation. murder is a state crime, not a federal one. if it turns out they're sure crusius wrote this internet posting the federal authorities could file hate crime charges. but an official says there's been no decision about that. the statement from attorney general barr was this. he said those who commit such atrocities should be held accountable swiftlily, and to the fullest extent the law allows. texas is a death penalty state. just last week the attorney general ordered the bureau of prisons to file a new protocol that would allow the federal government to resume the death

penalty as well. and the first executions are scheduled for december and january, although there may be court challenges there. that's what we're looking at tonight, ali. >> pete, how does this go now when they're trying to match this person to the posting on the internet? who does that? you were saying murder is a state crime, butvoed because of of the posting? >> very much so. the texas authorities will remain in charge for now until some decision is made. and the decision may be made they'll both file charges and they'll have to decide who goes first. we have now a suspect in custody in a shooting, which is somewhat unusual. in these past shootings like the one in gilroy, the suspected gunman is dead at the end of the them. texas will rely on federal authorities to do the forensic

work super it's labor intensive. they will require the help of the fbi. they can do that. they can help the federal authorities trace back when this was posted, when it came from. they'll look at crusius' social internet, emailing, touch with messaging on the phone, who he was talking to, who his friends were. they will trace back his movements from the moment of the shooting back and all of that will be in support of the texas authorities. >> pete williams, thank you. don't go too far. i want to bring in jim kavanaugh, former special agent in charge of the atf. i need you to help us piece together what we have. we have at least 19 dead. we have at least 40 injured. we have a posting. we have somebody in custody. we have federal agents involved in a texas state investigation.

what do you make of this? you've seen far too many of these. what do you put together here? >> just being on this all day with the whole team here and listening to pete's report, i've read this screed. i've looked at the photographs of the shooter that are in the media as he entered the walmart. there's a lot of information here for us to look at. he's from dallas. if he lived in dallas, ali, it's quite a drive to el paso. it's a number of hours. in the photographs he's wearing shooter's hearing and eye protection. that's what you wear at the range. we do not see that in mass shootings, wearing eye and ear protection. he has a kalashnikov rifle. he's wearing a banana clip, curved like a banana. looks to me, it's a grainy picture, but it looked like he had maybe a pistol on his right

hip. and his cargo shorts looked to be packed with some heavy stuff, probably more magazines full of ammunition. looks to be maybe a little satchel pack on his left front. there may be more equipment in there. but i think it's possible -- he's in a police car. he's obviously not shot or wounded, so he may have been taken down by off-duty law enforcement in the mall because there's so much law enforcement in the border areas. cpb, agents and police. >> military. >> on a saturday afternoon -- he might have been arrested and stopped by some of them. but his motive is going to be so obvious, when you read the screed, if they confirm it and let it out. this is a guy who's talking. this is not a guy that's going to get to the police station and shut up. he's proud of what he did, if

that's his screed he posted. he wanted everyone to know what he was doing. he wants to inspire others and he's been inspired by prior killers as pete talked about. anders breivik and the poway, new zealand killer also. he's inspired by these. you and i talked about the propaganda of the deed. we used to deal with that when we talked to -- we're in the shadows of the gilroy shooting, so we're in a bad place in network and we have to rethink a lot of things. >> jim, i do wonder,k police department commissioner bill bratten a little earlier about this,tace when they go into a packed mall or a school or an airport, a placeome

of whom may be carrying weaponry. when we come back, i want to talk to you about how police officers, how law enforcement handle a situation that is that fraught, going in there trying to save lives without inflicting more damage than they've already come into. jim kavanaugh, formerly of the atf. we're going to take a quick break. our special coverage of the shooting in el paso, texas, continues on msnbc. [farmers bell] ♪ (burke) a "rock and wreck." seen it. covered it. at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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. our special coverage of the shooting in el paso, texas, continues here on msnbc. we're continuing to follow the breaking news. at least 19 people have been killed, 40 injured after a mass shooting at a walmart around the nearby cielo vista mall in el paso. this is just a few miles from the border. there was a sales and some back-to-school sales going on. reports are that a lot of people from mexico, nearby mexico, juarez is the city on the other side of the border, had been there. some people refer to this as the mexican walmart, it's so close to the border. officials haven't confirmed the status of the remaining people who were injured. el paso police say initial calls about the incident came in at about 10:00 a.m. local time. mountain ti that's noon eastern time. there were between 1,000 and 3,000 shoppers in the walmart at

the time of the