good morning, i'm joy reid, and we will be continuing msnbc's coverage to the -- i'm sorry, covering to the mass shootings which have left a total of 29 people dead and dozens of people injured in ohio and texas. the shootings happened in a matter of 13 hours and soft targets. on saturday police say a lone white male entered a shopping area and opened fire with an assault style weapon killing 20 people and injuring 26. just a few hours in dayton, ohio, police say a lone male opened fire with a gun killing 9 and injuring 26 before he was killed by police. this morning the dayton mayor told reporters that but for the presence of police officers who were assigned to the area more

families would be grieving today. >> we don't know the thoughts of the shooter at this we know he was wearing body armor and high capacity magazines. the officers were there less than a minute from the beginning of the shooting. the shooter was able to kill 9 people and injure 26 in less than a minute. and if we did not have police in the oregon district and the thousands of people in the oregon district enjoying their saturday evening, what we could have had in this city. >> meanwhile law enforcement officials in el paso are investigating the mall shooting there as a possible hate crime and say the shooter is talking with them. police believe he posted on anti-immigrant screed online and saying the shooting was in response, to, quote, the

hispanic invasion. it's unclear if the president will address the shootings in a formal statement or if he'll hold a news conference. it's not completely quiet at the white house. members of the gun control group, moms demand action,houseg in el more. not one more. not one more. not one more. not one more. not one more. not one more. >> the shooting in dayton marks the 251st mass shooting this year. and today is just the 216th day of the year. 2020 presidential candidate beto o'rourke who represented el paso in congress joins me now. and congressman, first of all your thoughts on what's happened and also what we've learned about the alleged motive of the

shoote shooter. >> joy, we are just devastated here in el paso. i don't have words to describe how we're feeling, but i will tell you that i am grateful for the first responders on the scene, the el paso police department and this entire community who is coming together and around these families and these victims. we got to meet with some of those families and victims last night. so many of them pulling through against the longest odds, multiple gunshot wounds, multiple family members and showing extraordinary strength. so this is one of the strongest places in the world, and if it's ever been tested, it is now. but el paso is going to pull through, overcome. and i hope that we're going to be able to help lead this country in ensuring this does not continue to happen, that this is not the new normal.

you asked about what we're learning about the investigation. some preliminary signs this was motivated by hatred, by racism, specifically against immigrants here in a community that's 85% mexican-american, with nearly a quarter of those with whom i lived were born in another country. the kind of place donald trump has warned the rest of america about, talking about invasions and caravans and mexican immigrants being rapists and criminals despite the fact that elposo is one of the safest cities in the united states of america today and has been for the last 20 years. so joy i'm saying that there is a connection between this racism and this rhetoric including from the president a what we saw in el paso yesterday. we have to put an end to it. >> you know, and when you have this alleged screed posted by the person allegedly the gunman here using words like invasion

like you point out, the community of el paso, it is a very fluid city across both sides of the border. both sides of the border work quite well and intrinsically with one another. what would you expect leadership in texas and in washington to actually say because if the language of invasion has been a part of this conversation coming out of the white house, and that's the kind of language that we're seeing what could they possibly say? what could the president possibly say in your view, and you're running for president, what would you expect him to say? >> yeah, i think this is moment where you need to specifically describe immigrants as being a source of strength and also safety and security for this country. we know the numbers bear this out that immigrants commit crimes at a far lower rate than those born in this country, and yet despite that the president has been trying to stoke and instill fear in this country

about immigrants. s d that fear found a home, it killing. taking the lives of at least 20 el pasoans, fueled by a fear of those who are different. and that difference by the president described as something that is dangerous, asylum seekers he described as an infestation, caravans that are going to invade in thus country, muslims that posed an inherent risk to this country and must be banned from entering, this helps to set the tone and create the environment for these kinds of acts of hatred and violence and intolerance. and so if we do not call that out, we'll continue to accept this as the fate and future of this country, and that cannot happen. not now, not going forward. and so let's describe immigrants as a great contributor to the safety and security of this

country. those who are different tan the majority, every bit as human, every bit as american as anyone else. that's what's been lacking from the president. that's what we need right now from our public leaders. and as somebody who calls el paso home and knows that community very well, what do you say to people, there are people this morning afraid to be outside now, afraid to be in public places, afraid to go to the mall, wal-mart, to the movies. they're just afraid because they know this ideology is out there. they know people who believe they just in their physical body is an invader. what do you say to people who are just scared today? >> we have absolutely got to overcome this. i'm thinking about the people in dayton, i'm thinking about the folks in gilroy. i think about the acts of hatred and violence, whether it was at mother manual in south carolina or the tree of life synagogue in

pittsburgh or poway just outside of san diego. we've got to be bigger and stronger and more confident and courageous than this hate and intolerance right now we've got to call it out where it exists in the highest positions of power and public trust including in the white house. right now at this moment or else it will consume us and this country. the future is in our hands. we either accept this or we change this, and i for one am going to do everything within my power to change this. not only calling that out but reminding this country we are a nation of immigrants and asylum seekers and refugees, that our differences must not only be tolerated but embraced as the very source of our strength and yes our security and our safety. that is america at its best. >> and do you foresee being able to give back the presidency with, you know, we've had unfortunately in this country mass shootings for many, many years before now. is there a way to give back the

presidency that puer to bring the country back together? is there a way to give it back that sort of moral foundation? is it are we past a certain tipping point where it's hard to put that back in? >> the answer's yes and i think it's incumbent upon the president to say the really tough things, the hard truths that must be spoken lest we continue to see this kind of violence. and one of those hard truths is that racism in this country which has always defined this country and the relations that we have with people and some who are kept down by law at least a minimum you have presidents in the past who sought to make this a more perfect union, who sought to bring people together. what we have right now is a president who encourages this kind of racism, who sees our differences as being dangerous to this country and stokes a

kind of fear and racism that results in the kind of violence we see. we need a president who can describe the racism we see and in the path to bring this country together, to repair the damage that's been done and to stop visiting these kind of injustice on future generations. that power uniquely restwise the presidency. and not only is it being squandered by our current occupant of the white house, he's in fact using that power to drive us further apart, to create more acts of violence hike all the one we saw here in el paso, yesterday. >> beto o'rourke of course knows el paso very well and in a personal way, thank you very much for being here. appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you, joy. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. let me bring in 2020 presidential candidate cory booker. your response to what we've seen here and the fact more we know about the ideology at least in the case of the texas shooting and the idea of this invasion,

the referencing to the christchurch shooting, your take, sir. >> well, you know, i believe in my faith there's a saying that you reap what you sow. and donald trump has been sowing this kind of hatred in our country when he talks about invasions and infestations and shithole countries when he tells people to go back, he is responsible and sowing these kinds of divisions to hate mongers, in fact failing to even condemn them where we saw in charlottesville where he talks about there being good people on both sides. and so i believe this president is responsible. in fact i believe presidents should take responsibility, and his words have been fueling white supremacy and giving license to them, and we're seeing the horrific results of hatred today. i also want to say he's responsible to do something substantive about this problem. in terms of not just his rhetoric but the actions he's

supporting. he's done nothing to keep these weapons of mass destruction out of people who want to do horrific harm, and that, too, is responsibility that lies at his feet. >> let's talk about congress. you're of course in the united states senate. you wrote the other day on twitter this is uniquely american problem, and using weapons of war, we know at least an ak-47 was used in these attacks. where there has been international terrorism there's been action to think about things like radicalization. there hasn't been much on gun reform so far. do you think in this case finally at last there might be a political willingness to do so? >> well, first of all let's just talk about the problem of white

supremacist violence. right wing extremists groups right here from this country. we do not see a mustering of public will, of the will amongst lawmakers to focus on the problem, even name that problem. we have a president that doesn't even admit it's a problem. that alone as i talked with the fbi director is frustrating to me we don't seem to pea honing inhe evident danger in our houses of worship, as we now saw in our shopping centers, as we've seen the hate manifested in places like orlando. so that's number one. number two, you're right. we used to be a nation whether people die whether it's four girl at a church in birmingham, women, that would move this nation to even overcome

congressional -- it's why i'm come forward on common sense things like gun licensing that says, hey, if you need a license for things to drive a car, it's common sense you should need a license to own and possess a firearm. for states that have done that, there's bindramatic drops in violent crimes. we need federal action and for me this lies directly at the feet of our nation's leaders particularly the person in the ght in the land, that you have a decision to make. will you be a part of the

problem or will you be a part of the solution? and inaction is complicity. as king said so eloquently what we have to repent for in this day and age is not just the vitriolic words and action of the bad people but the appalling silence and inaction of the good people. >> and do you foresee it happening? after sandy hook many people believed, you know, once little children were targeted in a mass shooting surely there would be action and president obama, you know, came forward and called for action and it still didn't happen. do you see the likelihood of any change in the body of which you serve in attempting to take some action particularly on the issue of availability, the easy availability of firearms? >> there must be action. in other words, we have no choice. this kind of carnage is coming in utter frequency. about every day hundred people dying of gun violence. the question is how many people

will have to die? so i know we are on the right side of history. that america will eventually end this kind of nightmare we're in. but we have to understand this is time for americans, all of us to take responsibility and begin to mobilize in the way that's necessary to make change in congress. and people who are blocking common sense gun safety need to start understanding there will be a consequence if you are preventing safety and security. we have a government that was instituted for first and foremost for our common defense and our leaders right now are failing on that. and people have to get more engaged and active on the changes that need to be made. i i intend to do everything i can to help be a part of leading that change in our nation. >> i asked beto o'rourke and i asked the same question, typically in a situation like this, one would expect tat the president would be able to exert

some sort of moral leadership or bring the country together. in this case since the president has used a lot of this language of invasion himself, what might you expect him to say, and is there something he could say or should say in your view? >> the president has been a moral failure. he has sown the seeds we are seeing now become this harvest of hate. he is responsible. he is a problem in this nation that is driving so much of this hatred. and if we can't just clearly say that, i don't care if you're republican or democrat, when the president of the united states is using that kind of hateful language, if you are silent in that, you are complicit of the problem. if you don't think have a prognosis demonize people, calling them invaders, calling people infestation, if you cannot see that that rhetoric is

contributing to the violence and hate in our country, then you are unfit to serve. this is a moral moment in america. it's not about party. this is about moral clarity. and it is time for us to call it like it is. this president is contributing to a climate of hate in our country which we see, unfortunately, being punctuated by hateful violence and he has to take responsibility for that. if not, we must remove him from that office. >> senator cory booker, thank you very much for your time this morning. really appreciate you. thank you. i'd like to now bring in pete buttigieg. and he's also a 2020 presidential candidate and the mayor of south bend, indiana. and mr. mayor, you had some very strong -- you had a very strong reaction to the shooting in texas and i'll read it to you. you said america is under attack from homegrown white nationalist terrorism. we're the only country in the

world with more guns than people. it has not made it safer. do you feel that the country is still having a conversation which is serious enough about gun reform but not enough of a direct confrontation or direct conversation about white nationalist violence and domestic terrorism? >> that's right. when america came under attack in 9/11 we immediately said we would not allow it to happen again, that being attacked by terrorists was going to change us for the better. and now america is under attack from domestic white nationalist terror and i don't see the great sense of urgency. we need to face what is upon us, and it is a national security crisis. it this was happening at the hands of islamic terrorists i don't think we'd see the same foot grabbing and inaction in washington? but right now under this administration homeland security has actually cut a program on

countering violent extremism in our communities. they've shown no sign of putting together a national strategy on securing this country from far white and white nationalistic extremism and if anything are validating the rhetoric so people of those sympathies feel they have validation from the highest office in the land and for some of them it is inspiring them to commit murder. we saw it in pittsburgh, san diego and by all evidence this is what we're seeing in el paso, too. >> as someone who's served in the united states military, kind of clarify to us and explain to us what that domestic terrorism threat looks like as opposed to the international terrorism threat we've been so accustomed to talking about since 9/11? >> well, some things are different and some things are similar. so when i was in military as an intelligence officer i specialized in counter terrorism and we spent a lot of energy looking at patterns of radicalization, how does someone

turn into a terrorist? in some ways those patterns are common between what happens 's typically young men who are adrift. ti consequence of a deadly ideology meeting opportunity. and we need to do more to examine what is causing that here on our shores. because this is the 21st century national security threat most immediately upon us. and a 17th century solution to national security like building walls is completely irrelevant to this problem. >> and let's talk about the issue of social media connectivity because you've always had radical people, they've always been around. now they have a direct way to talk each other, and chased thing off like twitter, traditional social media, the way this screed allegedly was

trafficked about or at least posted. and when you have somebody who was an extremist who immediately references kr references christchurch which was another attack that also references replacement, how much should social media companies take responsibility to notice and monitor the fact they are now the vehicles for this ideologies to spread? >> well, they do have a responsibility. and one thing we should pay attention to is the way in which most of the mainstream social media companies very, very imperfectly but have made efforts to try to flag or screen or block this kind of continent. then you have the fringe media that need to be named and confronted with the fact they are often helping to circulate these kind of hateful messages. but, you know, the ultimate amplifier on this kind of hate is the bully pulpit of the white house. and i think that this is not just a question of technology. this is a question of

leadership. will the president of the united states leave his golf resort, go back to washington, address the nation, condemn in no uncertain terms white nationalism an evil ideology and call for the senate tomorrow to enact at least the most basic gun safety reforms most americans want? or will there be a mix of silence today and more hate tomorrow coming from the highest office in the land? i don't think we can social media our way out of a problem when the highest leader in this country is stoking it. >> sandy hook, you know, obviously is something that marked this country very deeply, but you can go all the way back to the first mass shooting which people can remember in colorado which you had teenagers coming to school with really war weapons. talk about the fact teenagers, very young people are able to get their hands on weapons not

dissimilar to ones you used as a member of the united states military and how easy it is to be able to use that kind of weapons inside of social places even inside schools, et cetera? >> that's right. we cannot look -- we cannot go on pretending this is a coincidence. you look at the fact this is one of the easiest places in the world for people lito get weapo like this and we're the only place in the world where these kinds of shootings happen basically routinely. we need red flag laws, licensing systems, bans on the deadliest kind of weapons. the fact over in dayton, we still don't know what met vited that shooter, but the things we're hearing out of dayton suggests he was able to shoot something on the order of around 35 people in less than a minute. in south bend earlier this year we had a shooting at a bar where 11 people were shot. the only reason it didn't make

national news was that ten of them lived. that's no consolation to the family of the one who didn't. his family was in my office the other day and we were talking about what it's going to take to deal with gun violence at every law, from the incidents that happened one a time to the tune of about a hundred a day in this country, to the ones that grab our attention and shock the conscience in the form of these mass shootings. but we know that while no one law will save every life, we know that there is a relationship between the frequency of these kind of horrific killings and the fact that our gun safety policies are unbelievably weak. >> and last question to you just as someone who has served, obviously they're not the exact same weapon but what you do you make of the fact people are able to get access to weapons somewhat different from -- explain to us what are the differences between what these people are carrying and what you

carry in the military? >> some of them are not that different at all. some like to point out there are distinctions between the firing modes of the m 4 that i carried and the ar-15s available in this country. that's really glossing over the fundamental point which is we have to draw a line, that a person is now able to shoot 35 people in a minute unless there is access to this kind of weaponry. and there are some folks out there who believe we simply cannot restrict anything under this constitution and it's just not true. think about this, in this country anybody can have a water balloon and nobody can have a nuclear weapon. we will draw a line. and we already have drawn that line in this country. what common sense gun safety advocates are saying is we've got to draw that line a little bit tighter because states that do and countries that do as a

general rule have less gun violence than we're seeing right now. we cannot keep recycling this argument that's been going on for literally my entire adult life and expect things to get any better? this a question of political will, a question of courage and this is question of common sense. one last thing i want to mention, when 90% of americans including the vast majority of republicans and the vast majority of gun owners want to see some of these common sense reform measures passed and washington can't get it done, it forces us to ask deeper questions about what kind of political system we live in where congress can get away with completely ignoring the will of the american people. and that's why we need to look at the structuref of our democracy and make it work for us. >> mayor pete buttigieg, thank you very much for your time this morning. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. i want to bring in julian castro, also a 2020 presidential candidate and the former mayor

of san antonio, texas. and it's difficult particularly in your home state also keeping in mind there was a second shooting endayton, ohio, but your thoughts on what we've seen over the last 24 hours. >> my first thoughts are that how sad it is for the families of the victims both in el paso and dayton and also for our country, that we continue to see these types of shootings happen again and again and again. this year in america we've averaged one mass shooting per day. and as people watching know, that is far more than any country in the world by several times. and maybe the saddest part is that these are lives that didn't

have to be lost because we know what we have to do to stop things like this. we have to ensure that we have common sense gun reform to prevent this kind of gun violence and also we need to address this growing toxic brew of white supremacy that is festering in our country. and until we do both of these things i'm convinced that we're going to continue to see incidents like we saw in el paso yesterday. >> the screed that is associated with this alleged shooter is very specific about talking about invasion and focuses on the hispanics, on saying there is an invasion of the country, there's a replacement taking place that has to be stopped and that's how this person attempts to justify what they did. what do you say to members who are scared this morning and

feeling targeted because of this constant language of endangerment, it's very specific to a community? >> well, the first thing i would say is that we know that the vast majority of people of different backgrounds don't think anything like this. that this does not reflect who we are as a country. certainly not who we should be, that we have this fringe element of people who are engaging in white supremacy and in white terrorism. but that doesn't reflect who we are, so i would say your question was what would i say to the latinex community, is we know in communities like san antonio and el paso and so many others the community in texas and so many others have built these communities where people of different backgrounds get

along well, go to church together, work together, live together and that is part of the strength of these communities. we need to remember that so that we don't continue to fester division. secondly, we need leadership that rises to the moment and encourages people to appreciate each others differences, respect one another instead of fans the flames of hate and bigotry and division. and unfortunately as many have pointed out, we have a president whose political strategy has been based on dividing people. he started off his campaign that way in 2016 and it's not a coincidence just a few weeks after he announces re-election he's basking, indulging in the chants of send her back, and he's spoken of immigrants as invaders. this is the kind of language that these white supremacist terrorists are also parroting.

that's what they believe. and, you know, a lot of people have given up on donald trump because i do think that he's lost any kind of moral leadership. he's bankrupt in that regard. but i believe all of us need to hope that this man who is our president can rise to the occasion and take a different path and try and bring people together. i saw mick mulvaney on another show not too long ago and he talked about, you know, how much he and others condemn this. we need the president not just tweeting about this but actually going out there and addressing it in a serious way, spending a lot of time with americans explaining why we need to go in the direction of embracing our differences and coming together as a nation that is diverse. one tweet, one statement is not enough. he needs to show that to the american people at every

possible moment because he hasn't done that. >> and let me -- you mentioned mick mulvaney the acting chief of staff in the white house. this is what he just said not too long ago. there is no benefit he says here to try to make this a political issue, this is social issue and we need to address it as that. and then he said that in response to a question of whether or not donald trump's divisive rhetoric is dangerous. your response to mr. mulvaney. >> that's a total cop-out. it's a total cop-out. what does anybody think is going to happen when you have a president that is laughing off the idea of shooting immigrants who are coming across the border like he did in florida a couple of months ago, and what do you think is going to happen when you have a president that basks in chants of send her back that will not readily condemn the

white supremacists that marched in charlottesville in 2018? he's fanning the flames of this, and we can always hope that the president will find, you know, something within him to change what he's doing and unfortunately i don't think that's going to happen, and frankly i do believe, though, that the vast majority of americans don't think like this, and hope that they will take it into their own hands to make sure that they live out their own lives and values of respect for others and compassion and understanding the differences like a lot of americans already do. but also that they hold all politicians to that standard. whatever that politician is running for, the school board or the city council, the state assembly or the white house because until we do that, in addition to the common sense gun reforms we need to make, this kind of hate and division and

bigotry is going to fester in our country. >> and, you know, el paso is 80% latino. you formerly worked in the federal government in the obama administration. what would you want to see the federal government if it were amenable to protect people in communities like el paso where people are quite afraid right now? >> well, i'd like to see the federal government continue to work with local law enforcement and also with our social media platforms and other digital platform tuesday root out this bigotry, and any kind bigotry like this wherever it comes from so that we can prevent it before it turns into this kind of we know the sites. we need to dedicate more resources so we're able to root

it out and apprehend these folks squer or at least to disrupt their plans before these kinds of events happen. i also want to make sure that of course right now we're doing everything we can in el paso and dayton and other communities that have been struck by this kind of violence to attend to the needs of the family members and the community there. i was very inspired like i'm sure a lot of americans have been and seen the long lines of people there to donate blood in el paso and they were all of different backgrounds because people had that spirit to them. they want to do something for their neighbors. and finally i would just say, joy, as many people have said, i know there's a lot of frustration out there that common sense gun reform has not already been enacted when 90% of people in this country support universal background checks when we know we can cut down on this kind of violence because we've seen it done in other countries.

but things are changing. especially on the democratic side if you compare now to ten years ago, there are a lot more people in politicsthality are standing up to the nra. their grip on american politicians has loosened a lot. more people understand that embracing common sense gun reform is something that americans want you to do even in states like this, in texas, and it's very, very instructive. people should not let this point go. you know, it's very instructive that we're in here texas, a state hat has one of the highest rates of gun ownership. it has conseal carry, open carry, campus carry. that shooter knew he was walking into a situation in that wal-mart where a lot of people were probably packing a weapon, and that didn't stop him. this idea of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun, it didn't deter him at all. we've seen that in other akags. more guns is not the answer.

the answer is to make sure guns don't get into the hands of people like this is that those types of weapons are not on the streets. and hope we can move forward in the united states with that kind of reform if it starts from people pushing their politicians to make that kind of difference. >> my final question to you then on that very point is what would you say to the leadership in texas, in your home state who said this is merely a matter of mental health and who focus on that rather than on the ready availability of guns in that state and frankly in open carry ohio and other states where the nra has a lot of power? >> these are political talking points from the governor of texas and the attorney general and others, senator cornyn as well. look, we know what we need to do. we've seen other countries address this. this directly relates to the ou

society. and the fact that certain types of weapons are available, that you can get one of these semiautomatic weapons in the united states and that you have the capacity -- a shooter has the capacity to unload 20 or 30 bullets immediately. that shouldn't be the case. and not only that, they're being hypocritical because, you know, there's more mental healthcare available in the prison system in texas for people than there is in every day life in this state because mental health care has been so underinvested in the very state that greg abbot and the republican party have been in charge of now for 20 years, and they haven't done anything about it. so it's all talk. it's all talk for them on the mental health care aim which they have not funded, and it's cowardly for them to avoid the issue of common sense gun reform that a lot of texans want.

my hope is that the people of texas and the people of the united states again would take it into their own hands to push back against these politicians at every level and to elect people who believe in common sense gun reform. that's the only way we're going to make a difference. >> secretary julian castro, thank you very much. really appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you very much. we will be right back with more on the mass shootings in texas and in ohio. mass shootings in s and in ohio. did you know that every single flush [toilet flush] flings odors onto your soft surfaces? then they get released back into the air so you smell them later. ew. right? that's why febreze created new small spaces. [clicking sound] press firmly and watch it get to work... [popping sounds] unlike the leading cone, small spaces continuously eliminates odors in the air and on surfaces [popping sounds] so they don't come back for 45 days.

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two american cities are in shock and mourning today after two mass shootings in less than 24 hours. a gunman attacked a shopping center in el paso, texas, yesterday killing at least 20 people. the suspect has been arrested and the shooting is being investigated as a hate crime. authorities say the alleged shooter posted a screed online saying he was targeting the hispanic community. and overnight another shooting in dayton, ohio, where at least 9 people were killed. the suspect who was wearing body armor was killed by police. nbc correspondent morgan cheski is live from el paso and what do we know about the investigation at this point? >> reporter: this investigation very much ongoing at this time and the primary focus of

investigators is located just beyond here across the street from me, wal-mart, where yesterday that gunman walked through the parking lot open firing before going inside and killing 20 people. i can tell you that entire area has remained locked down since yesterday as investigators canvas that area searching for any signs of evidence as investigators build their case against this alleged gunman who is in custody and we're not exactly sure what he's telling them regarding a motive. you did mention that screed, that essay posted we believe about a half-hour before this shooting took place. authorities actually tipped off to its existence but not able to intercept the shooter before he made his way inside this wall wal-mart. some people rushing to the exits ushering people out to safety while other people were forced to take cover wherever they could and hide as the gunman made his way through that gunman.

we know he legally purchased this rifle believed to be a semiautomatic ak-47 rifle and the man accused is also from the dallas area as they learn more about investigation. in the meantime this scene has remained very much as it was yesterday. in fact, some of the victims we still believe still remain inside there, their bodies staying there until investigators can gather every bit of evidence as they can from this scene. we do accept nticipate and have update from investigators. but you can still feel the shock sinking in this community. >> and you mention authorities say they were tipped off to the existence of this online screed posted. do you know how long in advance authorities say they were tipped off to it? how long before the shooting did they know about it? >> at this point in time

investigators are telling us it wasn't a long amount of time at all. within an hour, potentially a half-hour after it was posted is when that gunman walked into this wal-mart and opened fire. >> and were you told by authorities whether or not this gunman purchased the weapons in el paso or purchased them and brought them to el paso? >> we're still waiting to hear the exact location of where he purchased that firearm. we do anticipate to ask some of those questions here at this briefing because authorities are remained very tight-lipped since locking down this scene yesterday, trying to not give anything away as they continue to build their case here. but hundreds of cars still in the parking lot here, joy. people are trying to come up and retrieve them. investigators telling them that nobody is going in until they gather everything that they can. and for a little perspective, keep in mind elpo paso over the past decade has averaged about 18 murders a year. and that number shattered yesterday morning in a time span

of just a few minutes. >> really appreciate it. thank you. all right, let's bring in msnbc national security analyst frank figluzzi. thank you for being here. so you have this alleged shooter who posts this screed online on one of these, you know, not twitter or facebook, one of these sort of secondary online sites and then commits this crime. talks about in this screed what kind of gun they were going to use, and it's very clear, first line references the christchurch shooting in new zealand. second line references a hispanic invasion and claims that they're doing this to stop said invasion by hispanics of texas and therefore the u.s. what does that tell you we should be thinking about when it comes to attacks like this? >> well, this raises a couple of things. first, there's a kind of pure

group radicalization that's occurring, they're inspiring each other and egging each other on and there's very, very eerie similarities to the gaming community where gamers will talk about their scores, how did you do? get a good score? we even see that on the site involving the el paso shooter. as he's on his way to the attack, someone says get a good score. this is the kind of thing we're dealing with today. the other thing that's really an important discussion to have is minutes prior to the shooting some law enforcement entity, i'm told possibly the fusion center, not the fbi but rather the intelligence fusion center was contacted regarding this information. and why is that important? because that means law enforcement was not already in that site or monitoring that site, and so if you want to draw comparisons between the international terrorism world and the statutes and policies

and protocols that govern that and compare it to the domestic terrorism world, we have a gap. and that gap needs to be addressed. and what do i mean by that the intelligence community is all over isis sites abdicating violence. on the international scale. and guess what, we don't have it on the domestic terrorism site. so any notions i've heard some misinformation being put out that, oh, the fbi was in this site. oh, law enforcement's inside the site monitoring this -- no, they're not. why? because they're not allowed to. and what's the issue? free speech and free speech is critical to our society. but hate speech that in a second turns to violence somehow we've got to figure out how to within the constraints of our society address that issue because right now we are blind to it unless someone raises their hand and says this person's going to hurt someone. >> well, and that's very important that you mention that.

i want to drill into that just a little bit further because there is a lot of tension just in the conversation when these shootings happen about why they are not called terrorism immediately. and there are issues of these not being foreign, you know, attackers, not being muslim to be blunt, and being american. and so in a country where we do have a first amendment, are you saying that the fbi that federal law enforcement cannot monitor it when in the case of this screed that was posted by this person, they say very clearly that they are going to buy weapons, they say very clearly that they are going to kill people, and then attempt to justify why they're going to do it. so how does that not then allow federal law enforcement to take action either there or with the social media companies because essentially they're allowing people to post very blatant, open threats of murder. >> well, law enforcement can certainly take action if there's specificity at a time and place,

and they can knock on doors and talk to people who are theorizing about committing acts of violence. the problem, joy, is getting that information in the first place. if you're not there to hear it, if you're not inside the site to see it, you rely on decent people, some of which were in this site, by the way, who said hello, fbi, when they saw this person talking about this. someone i think it will turn out contacted law enforcement. but unless we're in there to see it, we can't act on it in a timely fashion. even in this case with about 25 minutes is what i'm hearing prior to the attack, some kind of vague generic notion that someone somewhere anonymously is going to do something. very difficult to deal with that in time. so we've got to address that as a nation. there's no easy fix to this. i'm a strong advocate of free speech, but when you have a bunch of guys -- let's say you have a bunch of guys in a militia groups, they hang out on weekends and drink beer and talk

about how they hate brown people in. a split second somebody might say i hate brown people and i'm going to kill someone next weekend. at that flashpoint moment, there needs to be a way for us to understand who that is and what his intentions are, and we can't rely on the other groups in that militia to report it. so this is a growing problem, the hate problem we talk about a gun problem, we talk about a mental health problem. we've got a hate problem. and part of it is this radicalization comparison i'm seeing eerie similarities. one of them is there's a mentor on the islamic side you have young people online getting radicalized by a father figure clerk who's inspiring them. they aspire to be like him, and they effect occurs. we've got such a leader. it's the president of the united states who has to come out and intervene. how do you break the radicalization chain? you have that figure come out

and say i reject this, i reject white hate, i reject violence. it's not what i want, it's not what i mean to say. i'm done with it, i don't want you, i don't need you. unless that president comes out and takes that successful intervention, we are going to see another shooting. >> very important to mention that. you had chris wray, the fbi director come out and say that white nationalist attacks, domestic terrorism is now the single largest threat to americans' safety. so we know that that is true. as you mentioned, you have rhetoric even coming out of the president of the united states that talks -- uses some of the same words, invasion, et cetera. so then why is this not classified as terrorism? why isn't it simply classified straight ahead as terrorism? >> so, there's some encouraging news here. we now heard, and you've reported, that the fbi has now designated this a domestic

terrorism investigation. that is very significant not only from an administrative standpoint but from a political messaging standpoint. this is domestic terrorism. we even heard the governor of texas say this looks like a hate crime, it's going to be investigated as such in addition to being a murder. this is a positive step. it's horrifying that it took this amount of loss of life for people to call it what it is. but it is domestic terrorism. and if people are saying, well, what's that definition? well, look, if you're doing something to support it, violence to support a social religious or political agenda, you're talking about terrorism and the fact that it's from white people regardless of color it's still terrorism. so we've taken a step tragically it took death to do, but we've taken a step in the last 24 hours to call this what it is. >> okay. that is an important point. then when future adherence to

this same replacement theory ideology that have the same -- use the same language, they talk about hispanics and illegal immigration and use that same kind of terminology, then will it follow the future attackers, people who continue to mouth this same ideology or treat it in the same way that the federal government has treated foreign attackers who all mouth the same isis ideology, right? so they're all classed as terrorism. then now that we have finally gotten here, will then future people who have this same ideology be classed also as adherence to a terrorist ideology? >> yes. so we're taking that step in the right direction, but that's only half the battle. so labelling and semantics all very important. but equally if not more important is preventing it from happening. what we don't want to do is sit here next weekend and say thank

goodness we can call it domestic terrorism. i don't want to respond and react to it, i want to prevent it. >> we need the same tools that we have for isis, al qaida, international terrorism, and we don't. look at a recent statement from the fbi agents' association, almost unprecedented for that association to come out and actually say we don't have the tools to address domestic terrorism. i've never heard them say something like that before. look at the statement this week from the fbi saying to law enforcement partners conspiracy theories are now a threat in this country, people adhering to those deep state conspiracy theories are actually going to hurt us. again, unprecedented kind of law enforcement notification. we need to battle domestic terrorism like we do international terrorism, and to do that we need tools, legislation, and policy changes. >> frank figliuzzi, can you not go away? don't go too far away. can you just stick around for a little while? thank you very much. please don't go far away. i really appreciate you this morning. i want to go to metis assan and

bring him into this conversation. we'll bring frank back later. but meti of the intercept, hopefully you were able to hear what frank figliuzzi said because i think that's a very important point. there's the rhetorical question of why we don't call white nationalist-based mass violence terrorism and why when it is muslim violence it is based on a twisted version of what people are calling islam. we needily say terrorism, right? so he has said that it's not just rhetorical that actually there really aren't the mechanisms in place to actually react to this as terrorism, but this case is now maybe a starting point to being able to do that. is that an important step forward, or do we still have a weird rhetorical battle that we're going to be fighting? >> is it an important step forward? if it happens, yes. i'm not sure whether it will happen or not. i know in the heat of the moment we say these things, but i'm not on the other hand mystic, joy.

i was on your show after christchurch and we discussed the denialism about the threat posed by white supremacist terrorism. the acreage of coverage given by the media to violence carried out by muslims or hispanics. fbi director christopher wray went before the senate just a few weeks ago and talks about how domestic terrorism cases are outnumbering the international cases. it didn't dominate the news for days or weeks. it wasn't on all the front pages of the newspapers, it should've been. now we are seeing this latest attack in el paso. and i just imagine how differently we would treat it if it was, god forbid a muslim person or a hispanic shooter in dayton, ohio, about how else do you get people to stop the denialism and especially, sorry, i know you've talked to some of your previous guests about donald trump. i sat down last night and i ran

that alleged manifesto from the shooter and, you know, media organizations don't republish it, rightly so, and give it too much publicity. on the other hand, you can't avoid the fact that so many lines from that manifesto are ripped straight from donald trump's speech. he talks about traitors destroying america. he talks about democrats pandering to hispanic voters. trump has said that democrats want to give illegal voters the right to vote. he approves of "send her back" as a chant, trump stood and watched silently as people chanted "send her back" at his rally. so this is not only a social problem, it is a political problem. it is specifically a trump problem. let's stop the denialism. >> and i'm glad you made that point because within this screed that this person wrote, this sort of very directly -- the amount of hispanics that are

here, the amount of immigrants that are here, legal and undocumented means that this will become a one-party state. the democrats will take over -- >> the great replacement. >> right. so that same replacement theory is being spoken of. frank figliuzzi has said that the only way to break what is a political ideology that's being expressed here, which is why it's classed with terrorism is for the leader to start to break it, right? so i wonder if now we will see people who have this rhetoric about the fear of immigration, about a fear of increasing immigration, a fear of undocumented immigration, ask to condemn it because typically what happens when there is a muslim who commits an attack is that everyone else who is muslim then is asked to condemn it. and there's a reason to do that because having that condemnation starts to break the circuit. so will then or should people who have been very vocal

including the president the united states be asked to condemn not just this person but this radical ideology? >> joy, let me agree and disagree with you at the same time. for 18 years muslims like myself have been asked to condemn every terrorist act that happens in the west. now some of us are pointing this out as a double standard, all white people aren't responsible for white terrorist attacks just like all muslims aren't responsible for jihadist attacks. people who incite those attacks, people who preach hatred. similarly, people who are responsible for white supremacy terrorist attacks are the leaders in this country, the opinion formers, who incite that stuff. it's not just donald trump, it's members of the republican party, senator john cornyn was tweeting just a few weeks ago about how there have been nine extra hispanic residents for

are they going to address that this week in their prime time shows or are they going to find some way to blame democrats and liberals for this? donald trump was asked after christchurch to condemn this stuff. it's a group of small people and then he talked about invasions again. these people are shameless. i don't think we're going to see any change on their part and that's what's so dangerous. >> and if after this, the president of the united states holds another rally and again talks about invasion and again talks about the people coming into the country as almost sort of an infection on the country, then what? >> well, let me put it this way, joy, and you and i have talked about this before. i expect nothing from this president. there is no bar for him. you know who i do expect it from, from the rest of us. if he does do that, what's nancy pelosi and congressional democrats going to do about it? are they going to tell us to wait till next november to defeat him at the ballot. but how many more people have to die? how about democrats impeach him

for being an incitor of hate. >> and we're going to talk to another candidate for the president who have been very explicit. mayor pete buttigieg very explicit about this being white nationalism. does that help when you have people now finally being able to only talk about white nationalism, because otherwise we're being very uf mystic about something that as you said is a mortal threat to people who are latino, people who are muslim, people who are black and brown, it is a mortal threat. is it important then to have people who want to be president be very open -- >> yes -- >> about what this is? >> yes. people of color have been saying since the election that the trump election was about white supremacy. >> it was driven by racial resentment. it wasn't about economic anxiety. a lot of us were told by some white liberals, by a lot of democrats that you can't speak

like this, you can't make sweeping statements, you can't alienate trump's base. they definitely stayed away until recently from the white nationalist label. so i'm glad things are changing. i'm sad thattews and synagogues and muslims in mosques and hispanics in walmart had to die. but jay inslee at the democratic debate said we can no longer tolerate a white nationalist in the white house. that's what the speaker of the house has to be saying, joy. >> yeah. and my last question to you because you do have this international perspective which i'm going to use at this moment and take advantage of it. this alleged shooter referenced europe and referenced a sort of -- tried to globalize what this person is trying to do or claimed they were trying to do and said that europe has no defense of itself from things like race-mixing and invasion and that the second amendment is

what gives in this person view the power to fight back. how much do we then have to -- talk about this from an international scale because this isn't just an american issue, but the guns make it different here. >> it's a globalized issue in terms of this white supremacist ideology, this kind of rising fascism. directly at the top relates to christchurch, talks about the great replacement manifesto of the christchurch in new zealand who murdered 51 muslims in two mosques. who murdered young socialists in 2011 in the name of fighting multicu multiculturalism. and, yes, you hear trump supporters all the time. i remember the morning of the inauguration, i was on the metro in d.c. with a carriage full of people in maga red hats and they were talking only about how trump's going to save us from going down the path of germany. most of these conservatives in america who talk about europe

being overtaken by hordes of brown people, it's hyperbole exaggeration scare mongering of the worst kind, and it pre-dates trump. this has been around. but trump as president of the united states as frank put it so well and all of the democratic candidates have said, when you have the leader of the most powerful nation on earth legitimizing this, blessing this, and refusing to condemn it, not just in a tweet saying condolencing this is bad. this is the man who rallied against obama and clinton saying they won't say radical islamic terrorism. well, guess who won't say white supremacist terrorism, donald j. trump? >> thank you. i really appreciate your perspective this morning. all right. i'm joined now by ohio congressman tim ryan who's a 2020 presidential candidate.

and of course your state, mr. ryan, is also involved here with a shooting that took place and many people injured as well. so let me just go ahead and get your thoughts on what we've seen in the last 24 hours. >> well, it's heartbreaking. how many times do we have to keep watching this? i was actually on a red eye flight from nevada thinking about what happened in el paso and as soon as we land in charlotte, north carolina, the alerts go off about what happened in dayton. it's just mind-boggling. i'm calling on congress to get back in the session and the august recess and reiterate the passage, get the bill that we passed already around background checks, schumer and mcconnell need to go back in session in the senate, they need to pass that bill. we need an assault weapons ban. i mean, when you look at where we're at and you've had two phenomenal guests on, i've been watching this, unbelievably

articulating what's happening in this country right now. we've got to act -- we have kids that are afraid to go to school, joy, in the next week or two, all around the country parent who are afraid to send their kid to school. walmarts, synagogues, churches, movie theaters, bars and restaurants. i mean, shopping malls. i mean, the whole country's afraid now. and the president has been said, throws jet fuel on these fires that are burning, insites, when i read that manifesto this morning a couple times, and it is like a trump rally. they're basically the same phrases in that manifesto that you would hear come out of the president of the united states' mouth. and that's the most disgusting part of the whole thing. >> and frank figliuzzi made a very clear point that part of the problem is that in addition to the available access of guns, the ready access to things like ak-47s, you also have a growing

white nationalist ideology that the director of the fbi has now said is the biggest domestic terrorism threat in the country. it's a security threat to every american, particularly to americans of color and when you have somebody putting in their manifesto very specifically that their goal is to stop an invasion in the united states by latinos, by hispanics. and when frank figliuzzi is saying that federal law enforcement does not have -- they are not equipped to stop it. >> they are not equipped to monitor these kinds of things that are posted. they're not equipped to treat this like terrorism. should white nationalist terrorism be treated by federal law enforcement the same way that international terrorism is treated? >> absolutely. i mean, we've crossed the threshold at this point where white nationalists are killing americans in acts of better yore. so we need to make sure that law

enforcement has the tools and the capabilities to be able to do this. this is also, again, look, the president incites this stuff. he's not talking to the phd when he's giving these rallies. he communicates also to the lowest common denominator like this jack-[ bleep ] who would drive hours to go kill mexicans. that's who he's moving and influencing. and the president more than anything else, more than laws, more than executive orders, the president is a cultural figure in the united states. and that cultural figure can have us reach for the stars and go to the moon or that cultural figure can tell us, you know, go back to where you came from. and that's what we're living in right now, and that's why the national anxiety level is so high right now because this is not who we are. and the president is steering us in a direction that nobody wants to be going in right now, and he needs to do a lot better of a job in trying to heal this country than trying to divide the country.

>> can you please stay with us for just a moment? i want to bring in the mayor of dayton, ohio, and ad her to this conversation. anne whaley who is the mayor of dayton. obviously consoelss to your city. is there any new information about this shooter? >> we don't have the release of the name of the shooter at this time. we're in the process of continuing to just give updates as we get information. this is an active investigation. i have to just say it's good to hear congressman ryan's voice, and appreciate him contacting me early, early this morning with his condolences. for us i think what's been most amazing is the fact that in less than a minute police officers were able to stop the shooter from just spraying a whole area. and i really for us we just can't imagine what it would be like if we didn't have those officers there because in that

short period of time nine people were fatally killed and, you know, over 20 injured. and so, you know, i think being the 250th city this year to have gone through a mass shooting, i just have to beg the question is when is enough, enough? >> it's difficult to escape the reality that both ohio and texas are states with very liberal gun laws. and it's easier to get guns in some states than others and these are two. should gun laws in your state in your view, madam mayor, be looked at again? >> we've always been an advocate, i'm proud to be a part of every town, for us right now in the community we're trying just to hold our loved ones really close, really help our victims and the families of those that have -- whose life have been completely changed because of this devastating act.

in may dayton had a terrible tragedy of 14 tornados coming through our city this may, and then this morning waking up to this. the difference is one of these tragedies is completely preventible. and that's what makes this morning so unnecessary and so heartbreaking. >> and tim ryan, i'll ask you the same question. i can still remember being in cleveland for the republican convention. and it's pretty alarming when you see people carrying long guns on them. it's pretty shocking for, you know, your average new yorker to see people just walking around with them. but people can do that and did that. is that a culture that we should encourage in this country, or do we need to change the gun laws in this country so that people don't feel like they're walking around in a war zone? >> of course. i mean, of course. and, again, it's the background check, it's the assault weapon ban. it's the charleston loophole. 's having a comprehensive

approach to a societal problem. that's what functioning democracies do. and you see mayor nan whaly who's been doing a phenomenal job turning dayton around. they've got so many positive things happening down there trying to rebuild that town and that community, getting them ready for the new economy, and then you get something like this. we need a functioning congress, a functioning democracy. we need to quit with the left and right. we need to get into new and better. we need to elevate the conversations. we need to find some common ground so we can get to some higher ground. and that's really what has to happen because, you know, we can talk about all of these gun reform laws that any nation with any lick of common sense would pass, and it gets held up because of the influence of the national rifle association that have mitch mcconnell and others bought and paid for. so until we break that, until people start putting the people -- until leaders start

putting the people of the country before their own political party, we're not going to be able to fix this problem. so we need all of that. but, again, it always gets back to what's the culture like in the country. is this a tolerant country, is this an accepting country that appreciates diversity, or is this a country that has a president that incites someone to drive ten hours to go kill mexicans? >> mayor nan whaley and congressm congressman tim ryan, we really appreciate you. much more coverage after the break. this was me before liberty mutucustomized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and this is me now! any physical changes to this man's appearance are purely coincidental. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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we are back with continuing coverage of the back-to-back mass shootings in ohio and texas that have left 29 people dead and dozens of offethers injured. el paso, texas, on saturday. police say a lone white mall opened a shopping area killing 20 people and injuring 26. just a few hours later in dayton, ohio, police say a lone male wearing body armor opened fire at a night club with a long gun killing nine and injuring 27 before he was killed by police. some of the presidential candidates are accusing donald trump of stoking the anti-immigrant language that we saw in an online screed that police believe the suspect in el

paso wrote shortly before the shooting. here's what some of the candidates told me just moments ago. >> the president has been trying to stoke and instill fear in this country about immigrants. and that fear found a home, it looks like, in yesterday's killing. >> i believe that my faith is the saying that you reap what you sow. and donald trump has been sowing this kind of hatred in our country when he talks about invasions and infestations and [ bleep ] countries, when he tells people to go back. he is responsible. he is sowing these kind of divisions that are giving license to hate mongers. in fact, he's failing to even condemn them in charlottesville where he talks about being good people on both sides. so i believe that this president is responsible. in fact, i have presidents should take responsibility. and his words have been fueling white supremacy. >> he started his campaign off that way in 2016.

i think he believes that haz how he won in 2016. >> just moments ago former congresswoman gabrielle giffords who survived a mass shooting in 2011 put out this statement. quote, i have no more words, i only have anger. president donald trump and majority leader mitch mcconnell must call the senate back from august recess immediately. we cannot afford to wait another day for lawmakers to address this horrific national public safety threat. so far donald trump has refused -- has used twitter to express his condolences to the people of el paso and dayton, but it's unclear whether he'll address the shootings in a more formal statement or if he'll hold a news conference. president and ceo of voter latino joins me now. your response because there has been a lot of very blunt talk this morning about the president and about the things he has said about invasion and about migrants and the treating of migrants. what do you make of all of this

this morning? >> joy, today the country is grieving for the two mass shootings. my heart goes out to dayton, ohio. i do want to underscore what happened in el paso yesterday was the largest mass killing of the latino community in american history. it was done with intention, and it was done with instruction. the president of the united states went down his escalator almost four years to today to announce his candidacy for presidency on the backs of mexicans. but we all heard the dog whistle. you and i have have had numerous conversations. there was no doubt in my mind then that what he was trying to do was to use a nationalist agenda to basically tear americans apart. yesterday he was incredibly successful in targeting a whole group of americans based on the color of our skin. we can't just say that this is another mass shooting. this was an intentional shooting. and the president has incited not just this violence, but we have a whole documents of individuals who have been

incited, whether it's the shootings in the synagogues, whether it's what happened in dayton, ohio. we have a whole history of individuals that are actually using his words and taking them seriously. >> and when you -- >> and, joy, and just very briefly, something that we also have to underscore because people are now trying to buzz it away saying that these are mere language and rhetoric from the president. i want to highlight that last year the president tore down a program that president obama had specifically set up in place. it's called the counter violent extremism task force that brought in different individuals from the department of justice, the cia, the fbi specifically to counter these types of nationalist movements. last year the president basically gutted it out. and it's now only a piece of policy and name only. >> and to your very point, when you have someone who posted online that texas is being invaded by hispanics in this person's view that the view will

soon become a one-party democratic state because hispanics are all going to vote for the democratic party. when those kinds of very drerkts very open pieces of language are being used when the word invasion is being used repeatedly, if the president does another rally and still says invasion and uses the same language, then what? >> the republican party has to stand up. the president right now is weaponizing race above americans. and let's be clear, joy. we have 132 million people of color living in this country. when he stands by idly and supports individuals saying "send her back," he's talking about so many of us. this is personal and when people say this is not who we are, it's because we all aspire to that document that our forefathers brought together saying that we may be imperfect today, but together we have an incredible opportunity to be cohesive, to be loving. but this is not the message that individuals are hearing. these are not the messages that our children are hearing.

and unless the republican party stands up firm and says that this is not the america or the future that they want, what they're going to think, what they believe right now is that they're going to have quick political wins, but that is not a future for anyone. >> don't go anywhere. i want to bring back in msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi. people are really afraid, you know, just hearing, just talking to people in general before doing these couple of hours. the and i guess the question then is in communities it's very clear this person was very clear that the language of replacement, the language of invasion is what's driving them. what are people to do? because people are scared. and as you said the federal government is still not in the mode of dealing with this as terrorism. >> well, the first thing people need to do is embrace their communities and understand that

we can divide ourselves from within. we talk lot about, you know, external threats these days, and, boy, they are there, and i'll get to that in a second. but we can be our own worst enemy. so the american people need to step up, contact their elected representatives and say i want you to specifically denounce this behavior. and this is more than symbolic as we talked about in the last block, joy. this denounceation, this rejection of this ideology is essential to break the chain of radicalization. you can do it. we've seen it on the islamic side. you can intervene. we need a giant intervention in the form of our leadership, particularly from the party most responsible for inciting this. and it needs to go to the very top. you know, you posed a question to your guest what happens if the president at the next rally uses those same words again? let's forget that question. i'll pose another question. what happens if the president in the next 24 hours doesn't come

out specifically to denounce white hate, white nationalism, and racism and condemn this violence? i say then he's chosen sides, the side of evil versus the side of democracy. that's what we've got to be watching. and the world is watching this, joy. where i come from, it's the counterintelligence background. we've been on before talking about the threat from russia and others to the core of our democracy. and mothers report talking about the russians just wanting to sow discord and chaos in our society. they're sitting there watching this. and they're popping champagne corks over the fact that they are dividing this country through bots, through trolls, and through this president. and we need to have this president come out and stop that in its tracks. >> but very quickly, it's been a full day, and he hasn't done it. you know, as a national security professional from your

perspective, what do white nationalists hear when they hear nothing for 24 hours after it's known what -- you know, what the ideology was of the person who did the shooting in el paso? >> yeah. what happens is when they hear him come out and have, you know, kind of half-heartedly say icon demthis, they feel he's doing it simply because he has to do it. but wink, wink, nod, nod, it's okay to continue. that's why i'm saying language is so important. he's got to come out. and so how do american people influence that? call your members of congress in a gop side and say you need to tell our president that he needs to get out and specifically condemn that. if he feels that pressure from his own party leadership, he may well understand that it's necessary to do. >> and i should note that trump did tweet about this incident. he tweeted his first tweet was

that the fbi, local, and state law enforcement were working together in el paso. and in dayton, ohio, information is rapidly being accumulated in dayton. much is being learned in el paso. he talked about law enforcement and he sent some godblessings. but thus far there has not been a specific condemnation of the white nationalism that fed what happened. and, as you said, created the largest mass killing of latinos in this country's history? >> the ring between hate and mitch mcconnell where they are both sending prayers is ridiculous because they both have the power to move the needle. mitch mcconnell has the power to move the needle because they passed a law demanding background checks. >> it was the most comprehensive law in 25 years with bipartisan support. mitch mcconnell basically has it dead on arrival on the senate side. he doesn't want to lift a finger. so when we say we need to call our members of congress, but that they actually do snang

there's actually legislation. with the president the longer he says silent, it's an absolute that he's actually saying, yes, this is snang i'm in agreement with. and we don't have that need in our country. we actually need the president to live up to that office of a presidency that we believe in. and if he doesn't, he's increasingly creating a national security risk in our country every time he goes to those rallies, every time he makes those chants, every time he puts 132 million americans at risk. that's when the democrats really need to basically own it, they have to look into if this is an impeachable offense because there's not anyone in this country right now that feels any safer since the moment he took office. >> maria and frank, please stay right there. we need to take a quick break. so don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. -their béarnaise sauce here is the best in town.

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all right. we are continuing to follow these two mass shootings, one in el paso, texas, and one in dayton, ohio. i want to read a few of the responses to these attacks on

americans. kamala harris said we shouldn't have to live in fear of mass shootings. congress must have the courage to pass reasonable gun safety laws. if they won't act, i will. elizabeth warren issued a tweet, a statement saying we're waking up to the second mass shooting in as many days, this is after el paso, i'm heart a sick for the 29 people in el paso and all the other lives we lose every day due to senseless gun violence. we spoke with mayor pete buttigieg earlier in the day, but he had one of the strongest statements out earlier and most direct. he said how many more, he tweeted earlier, we are under attack from home-grown white nationalist terrorism that. ideology is evil. it is being condoned at the highest levels of our government. today it inspired a gunman to claim at least 20 lives in el paso. enough is enough. we have an obligation to act.

many other statements out. i want to also add in george bush, the younger george bush, george p. bush who is an elected official in texas, his statement said i proudly served in afghanistan as a naval officer where our mission was to fight and to kill terrorists. i believe fighting terrorism remains a national priority. that should include standing firm against white terrorism here in the u.s. there have now been multiple attacks from self-declared white terrorists here in the u.s. in the last several months. this is a real and present threat we must all denounce and defeat. all terrorism must be stopped. i am praying for the victims of the shooting in el paso, and i am asking that all americans stand firm against all forms of terrorism. joining me now by phone is ohio senator cher brown. condolences of course to those who lost their lives and your response to what we've seenvert last 24 hours.

>> thank you for doing it by phone. i spoke with the mayor today, and mayor nan whaley, and she said that she's gotten dozens and dozens of calls and emails and texts from mayors around the country that have had to deal with this in their cities. so we all wake up with sadness and grief for our fellow citizens. but i wake up with anger, too, anger that congress just doesn't do its job. and as you know, ms. reid, the house has passed a background checks deal. i called on senator mcconnell to bring the senate back tomorrow and pass that bill. we could do it in an afternoon, and people could be home for dinner. and the president or someone could sign it, and that would be the first step that we need to take and not wait any longer. >> and, sir, we know that sandy hook for a lot of people, they thought that, by god, once little children were targeted there would be something done,

nothing was done. but now that in this case there is this designation that this is terrorism, that, you know, the fbi director has said that white nationalist terrorism is the biggest threat now to the lives of americans. do you believe that that finally will move the united states senate republicans to be blunt to actually do something about this threat? >> well, you'll have to ask -- i'm hopeful, but i also -- first of all i don't know if there was similar motive in the man that did the shooting in dayton. we don't know enough there. but certainly in el paso from all sides we think we do know that. and, you know, i don't know what will move republicans to do this. i know what keeps them in line is gun lobby money, is gun lobby publicity for them. i've had those dollars spent against me in ohio. i see them spending money for and against politicians and for those that do their bidding and against those that stand up to

them. i'm just hopeful my republican colleagues finally come to the conclusion that maybe they ought to do the public interest bidding here instead of the gun lobby. yeah. and my final question to you that if the president of the united states continues to go out and use the word "invasion" with regard to immigrants, now knowing what we know and seeing what we've seen and having the fbi said what it has said. in your mind, sir, although it is not your body that would begin, do you believe that that as some previous guests that we've had this morning have said would then be in your mind an impeachable offense? >> um, i guess i'd answer this way. i don't know about that. i think there is so much evidence increasing towards that direction. but i look back at what president obama did to heal and to comfort after charleston and after sandy hook. and president bush whom i agreed with on virtually nothing.

but president bush after september 11th, as you remember, ms. reid, he went to a mosque and said muslims did the attack as terrorists did. i saw the quote from, i guess his nephew i think that you just mentioned. i wish our president would do that and would begin to heal instead o talk that he continues to spew. it's just so troubling for our country, and i'm hopeful that enough republicans will go to him to tell him to change course and we'll move on this legislation and we should do it this week. >> senator sherrod brown of ohio, i really appreciate some of your time this morning. i want to bring in heidi barich of the southern poverty law center. even rod rosenstein, the former deputy attorney general of the united states, his reaction to the shootings is as follows that killing random civilians to

spread a -- many of the killers are lone wolf losers he says indoctrinated to hate through the internet just like islamic terrorists. in your view, is what we're seeing here because what mr. rosenstein talks about is incitement online. but i know that the southern poverty law center has also talked about the incitement particularly from one politician who happens to live on 1600 pennsylvania avenue. your thoughts on what we're seeing here this morning. >> yeah. well, i mean, once again we are faced with the spectier of young white man at least in el paso committing domestic terrorism who is fuelled by hate of people of color. and this is just a long line we've seen of this that mix these deep hate reds of various populations. and white supremacist terrorism accounts for every single attack

in this country in 2018. and, yes, when we look at the white house, it is being fuelled from there. the same kind of rhetoric is in the manifesto of the el paso shooter as what trump has said. describing, you know, immigrants as invaders, as all these kinds of terrible things. and when you get those signals from the white house, for some people that legitimizes these kinds of behaviors. >> is there something that he could say that could turn it off or that could at least slow it down? >> sure. i think he could first of all acknowledge that white supremacy is a problem in this country which he refused to do after the christchurch massacre and also after the charlottesville rallies. he could stop degrading african-americans, immigrants, et cetera, in his language. he could treat people with the respect that they deserve. and he could say to the world that he was wrong about what he's been doing because when politicians from the top levels engage in the same kind of hate rhetoric that you can hear out

of any typical white supremacist, it just destroys the bounds of decency and respect. >> let me bring in msnbc contributor and the executive director of the terror asimmetrics project. of whether or not there is something that the president could do to start to turn this off? >> well, the president could try to go back on his rhetoric that he's already used. but i don't think that that would be effective. that would literally alienate his entire base. it may take something along the lines of the fbi director or governors or state homeland security directors and local chiefs of police to say we are now targeting you. you are now at the top of our threat matrix, and anyone who thinks that you're going to take a gun, make a trip, go on a mission from god and come into our jurisdiction, we will get you, we will hunt you, we will kill you, and your mission will be a failure. you have to understand something. when timothy mcveigh blew up the

oklahoma city building, i met the state trooper who caught him. he said timothy mcveigh seemed to think the trooper was on his side which was why he was almost smiling when he said, yeah, i have a gun, and the trooper took him at gunpoint. these people think that the system, the military, even donald trump has said that, that the military is on his side. they think that this is a support system which allows them to go forward and be the man that steps up and kills these people. that is where they have to be proven wrong. this is why they must fear law enforcement because right now they think, well, when this is over and done with, that entire system really actually agrees with me. someone has to take the point, whether it's director of homeland security, whether it's the fbi director. but someone must come out and say we will stop you. >> and one of the challenges that i spoke earlier with frank figliuzzi about, and you can comment on this as well, is that

the federal government is not at this moment sort of equipped to treat what now -- we've known since mother emanuel that there is white terrorism in this country. but they're not really set up for it. so this screed goes out, and so law enforcement did see it in advance. they tried to act as quickly as possible. but with foreign, you know, with international terrorism, there is a system set up to try to intercept it. do we need to change our ways. >> well, right off the bat, yes. and i think that congress needs to take up right away a series of domestic terrorism laws. and it'll be very simple. just match them to the words "international terrorism" so that a member of al qaida and a member of white nationalist terrorist or a militia that thinks they're going to carry out acts of terrorism are equal all the way around. right now there are no laws called domestic terrorism law that get you for firearms violations, they get you for hate crimes. but you are not treated as a terrorist. this act in el paso was clearly

by all definitions a terrorist attack in the united states. but because by nature of the person being white and american, he can't be treated like a member of isis or al qaida. he can only be treated as a murderer, right? but he's a murderer with a political intent who is spreading an ideology. so congress should take that up immediately and then see if the white house won't sign that legislation. that will be very revealing. >> and heidi, you've been saying this for a very long time, hate groups and the existence of hate in the united states, give us sort of a range of just how far gone this has gotten. is this significantly worse than we've seen in the past because of course you just heard timothy mcveigh mentioned, it's happened before. how in your view just looking at the data, how bad is it? >> well, we have several things that show that the situation is worse today than it was at the time of mcveigh's attack.

first of all these attacks are happening more frequently. obviously in oklahoma city, over 180 people were killed. the but we have shootings now regularly that are in the dozens of people killed not just here in the u.s. but around the world. the number of hate groups is up, about 30% in the last four years in the united states. the numbers of hate crimes are up at the same level. and we have this kind of white supremacist propaganda spreading in ways that we could have never anticipated in the past. i mean, some hate sites have 450 to 500,000 unique page views a day. so we are exposing thousands and thousands and thousands of young white men to this stuff. and as a result of that because the whole point of white supremacist propaganda is to make you think that white people are somehow being replaced and that the only way to stop this is through violent means. some people like happened in el paso are picking up that message and running with it. >> and can you connect the

increase in white nationalist ideation and action on it to something? what has changed to make it go up? >> well, that exact time period i'm talking about, the last three to four years ties almost directly to the rise of trump, his campaign, and what he did from the first day that he appeared on that escalator in trump plaza, new york, and attacked mexicans as rapists is that he justified their think. and so every single year we see more and more of these kinds of extremists coming up in the united states, more emboldened. their numbers are growing. so there's a tie directly here to the political system. and we want to tamp this down in many ways this is the responsibility of gop and trump. they need to put a stop to the legitimizing rhetoric that's coming out of the white house and is causing these groups to grow. >> and, frank, let me ask you really quickly. i'm going to come back to you in a second, malcolm. given that the head of the federal government is the person that heidi just named, right, as

the person whose rise was kind of connected to this, what can federal law enforcement do? there's no way for federal to m president change his rhetoric or change his -- what can they do? >> this has to come from the top. and yes, pressure can be applied. we've got a president who doesn't necessarily get his daily intelligence briefing, ignores intelligence, doesn't get briefed regularly from the fbi director. even the house and senate intelligence committees aren't getting the normal briefings from the fbi on developments in national security cases. the culture has to change. and the pressure has to be applied heavily in order to do that. i heard malcolm say, and i agree, that a strong statement needs to come out from law enforcement and put people on notice. we're onto you. we're going to get there. but the reality is that the

legislation and investigative tools are not yet there, and if people hear -- if the bad guys hear the fbi is coming after me, they'll take that as a challenge. they need to hear the recruiter in chief, the radicalizer in chief condemn them in order to break that chain of radicalization. and the world will be watching this. if it doesn't happen soon, i fear we're going to be on next weekend talking about the very next shooting. >> malcolm? >> well, you know, let me put this in a context that a lot of the viewers might be able to understand. if this was a member of isis, right, we would have called this a light infantry weapons attack. most of these attacks are decide attacks. this one particular shooter didn't go down in guns. i tell law enforcement, i train here in new york state, i tell them the people that are going to go to guns with you who are going to have a dual with you

are going to be the white supremacist shooters. it's not going to be a member of isis. they're going to carry out their attack and that's the end of it. this was a suicide infantry weapons attack the united states had yesterday. we need to view all these people for the most part as suicide terrorists. >> right. and i will say if you read the online screen posted, it said there was no point in getting arrested. there was no point in surviving and there was a presumption this person was going today. in this case, it's a direct threat to the latino community made in this skreed this person put out. this person is not alone. from what you've heard today, what should and what can the latino community, what should be asked for? what would you want the federal government to do? >> law enforcement, first, we need to do exactly what the shf

from el paso said, this is not acceptable. and that anybody who is targeting anybody, anybody that's targeting latinos, they need to be sent down. most importantly we need to have a clear understanding that this is absolutely a terrorist attack. this is the one that is the most blatant and most direct, but this is not -- this hasn't happened in a vacuum. sadly the latino communities and hate crimes have risen under trump. bullying has risen under tump. people talk about the people at the border with people in cages but the escalation happening and the fear that is happening among the latino community is real. let's take texas. texas is a majority minority state as of four or five years ago. it has one of the largest young latino populations in this country. the border moved across texas. many of those individuals in texas themselves, they have

lived there for generations. when we start trying to wrangle our hands and figure out what is the president doing? it's not just his rhetoric. under obama, obama put together a task force that brought in different agencies specifically to do counter extreme vetting and making sure they could track the national white strem cysts. trump zeroed out the funding last year. it's not just the rhetoric n. it's his policies and tomorrow the democrats and republicans should convene and pass some of the most stringent legislation when it comes to this . >> i'm going to bring in another guest before the top of the hour. navid, if the congress were to come back this week which a lot of our guests this couple hours have said they should, what should they do? >> well, look, what i want to be here is what we say is left of bang. we can wait for congress.

we can wait on senate. but as a person of color, as someone from the muslim faith, as an american, post 9/11, we were put in the microcome that said if you see something, say something. i remember clearly a friend called me and said look, there's an arab man in jersey city. i'm concerned. he's pledging allegiance to al qaeda. what do i do? >> i picked up the phone, called the fbi, and said this is a credible thing. you should talk to this person. within 12 hours the fbi had done a field interview of this individual. the reason that we didn't hear anything further about this is because the system worked. again, as a minority, as a person of color, post 9/11, the expectation is that i and the others in my community are going to manage and police our own community. we're asking the same thing from veterans and former law enforcement. look, you're not terrorists just

because you're a responsible gun owner doesn't mean you're a terrorist. you have a duty to pick up the phone and if you see something, we can wait for congress and senate. there's nothing today that should have stopped that gun owner from picking up the phone and saying someone is buying all these rounds. >> thank you all very much. i appreciate everyone with us today. that's it for me today. my colleagues will have the latest at the top of the hour. please stay right here with msnbc. ♪ more, more, more ♪ how do you like it, ♪ how do you like it ♪ ♪ more, more, more ♪ how do you like it, how do you like it ♪ all you can eat is back. how do you like that? applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

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good day from msnbc world head quarters here in new york city. it's high noon in the east. welcome to weekends with alex witt. i'm morgan ratford. any moment now authorities in el paso are expected to hold a press conference about the deadly shooting in texas. first, let's take a step back. this was one brutal day with two mass shootings. gun violence in america reaching a grim threshold in less than 24 hours. 29 people were murdered in two communities. dayton, ohio and elle pa paso, n. medic