healthier brain. better life. tonight in the wake of this weekend's deadly mass shootings, brian williams and rachel maddow for a special airing on msnbc called "a nation in crisis." it starts at 9:00 p.m. eastern. eddie will be there, too. my thanks today to eddie, sam, raul and jen. most of you for watching. i missed you all next week. mtp daily starts now. if it's monday, it's "meet the press" daily. i'm kasie hunt in washington in for chuck todd. we have hit a pit of your

stomach moment in this country. as we grapple with questions about whether our president's rhetoric has contributed to some unspeakable tragedies. back in may, the president held a campaign rally in florida where he warned of a literal invasion of immigrants at the southern border. and then this happened. >> how do you stop these people? you can't. there's -- >> shoot them. >> that's only in the panhandle you can get away with that statement. >> shoot them. that's what two people in the room the audience members heard them say. now they are focusing on ant anti immigrant screed posted moments before a gunman opened fire at an el paso walmart killing 22 people, 8 of whom were mexican citizens. the shooter carried out the tree of life synagogue massacre.

he also warned of an immigrant in vacation before murdering 1 people. the el paso tragedy was followed hours later by another mass shooting in dayton, ohio. his motive remains unknown. amid a barrage of criticism from democrats, some blaming him for the carnage, others calling him a white nationalist. the president addressed the crisis today, first by condemning the ideologies that are seemingly being fueled by his own race-baiting rhetoric. >> the shooter in el paso posted a manifesto online consumed by racist hate. in one voice our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. hate has no place in america. hatred warps the mind, rafages

the heart, and tkwours the soul. >> as the debate swirls around the president and guns, he makes it clear that he thinks neither are to blame. instead he called out what he says are a number of other culprits. >> the internet has provided a dangerous avenue to radicalize disturbed minds and perform demented acts. the perils of the internet and social media cannot be ignored, and they will not be ignored. we must stop the glorification of sroepbs in our society. this includes the gruesome and grisly video games that are now commonplace. we must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals who may commit acts of violence. mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun. >> tonight we will talk about

guns. we'll talk about the president. these awful tragedies, what is fueling them, what our leaders are planning to do about it, and what it all means for the presidential race. we're going to begin tonight with the latest out of el paso and dayton. chris jansing and gabe gutierrez is on the ground in dayton. chris, let me start with you. what is the latest from el paso? anything new in particular about the connection between the shooter and the screed that was posted online? >> reporter: it's something that officials are still looking into, although obviously they have made the connection both publicly and privately. we also know, nbc news has learned that the 21-year-old suspected went in front of a magistrate yesterday, was read his miranda rights, was asked whether he wanted an attorney to be appointed. he said he did. the magistrate said that he listened carefully, that he have

attentive and answered all the questions. even with that screed, and i can tell you, cakasie, so many peop have read it online. they are still trying to come to grips with how someone can get in a car, drive 650 miles and just open fire, causing so much devastation. one thing that i would say almost everyone mentions to me is the 25-year-old mother who was shielding her2-month-old baby when she died. and then the devastating news today that in addition to the 20 who were known to be dead on saturday in the walmart behind me, two more died in the hospital. one overnight and one early this morning. and within i would say an hour of that news coming out, we saw at the memorial behind me, kasie, more and more people coming. it has not let up. families coming in. they had heard it on the radio. they stopped and brought

flowers. there is a coming together in the community as we have seen so many times before. people looking for some comfort. and also trying to deal with the reality that now there are 22 funerals that have to be planned and attended. i said to the mayor yesterday what was her priority. and she said there is nothing about politics now. it's helping these families get through what they're going through. very slowly we're learning more about the victims. very slowly they've been bringing people in to identify the bodies. and it is now the deadliest shooting against la teen knows, the deadliest carnage against la teen knows in u.s. history. a local person told me today they average less than 18 murders a month. this is a very safe city. one of the safest cities in the country. and of course on one day, saturday, behind me 22 lives were lost.

kasie? >> chris jansing, thank you very much for that report. gabe gutierrez in dayton. we still don't have a motive in this shooting, but obviously taking place just hours after what we saw unfold in el paso. what's the latest? >> reporter: >> investigators are obviously still looking at that motive. no clear motive yet. i do want to tell you something that happened this afternoon. behind me the bar where the shooting happened incredibly has reopened. so have several businesses here along the oregon district in dayton. an incredible show of strength and resilience as the community begins to heal. kasie, this afternoon we heard from local officials. they are still trying to search for a motive as to why 24-year-old connor betts would have opened fire. they found 41 spent shell casings here at the scene, which is incredible when you consider that the shooting happened in the span of 30 seconds or so. meaning the overwhelming power

of the weaponry that this gunman had with him. he was able to cause so much carnage in a short amount of time. he could have had up to 250 rounds of ammunition with him. there are a lot of questions about the role of the gunman's sister in this. the youngest of the victims. victims ranging in age from 22 to 57 years old. authorities say she, along with another mutual friend, came with the gunman to this area earlier in the night. at one point they separated. then it's unclear what happened in that span of time. but then the gunman opened fire just after 1:00 a.m. sunday morning. it is unclear whether she was specifically targeted. but today the police chief said it is hard to believe he wouldn't have recognized her among all the victims here. we spoke with several of the people who knew connor betts. one former classmate said he was

a loner, outcast. at some point he had violent tendencies. the motive is still under investigation. we know from authorities that he bought his gun legally from an online retailer in texas. as this investigation continues here, we also know that the mutual friend that was with the sister, we know that he is cooperating with authorities as well as he recovers from his own gunshot wound. kasie, after an emotional vigil last night when some screamed out "do something" in their frustration as to why lawmakers haven't done more to curb gun violence. now this community is starting its process of healing. again, several businesses in the historic oregon district have reopened this afternoon. ks kasie? >> you heard the president address these mass shootings.

i'm joined in washington by national reporter for bloomberg news, senior vice president of communications for super for american progress and former special standpoint to president obama. and editor-in-chief of the washington free beacon. great to have all of you here today, although obviously an incredibly difficult subject to be talking about yet again. let's start with what we heard from the president today laying a lot of blame in a lot of different places. but none at his own feet. >> it comes as there have been 255 mass shootings in 2019 in the united states. that is defined by shooting reform. more people, not including the gunman, were killed. all the questions are what happens next going forward? does the president dial down his rhetoric and stop fueling some of the thoughts that seem to be in the el paso's shooter's mind.

that's where he is getting criticism. the only one that seems to is one by lindsey graham and richard blumenthal that would give grants to states to enforce red flag laws. in other words, take guns away from people who have been deemed after due process, to be dangerous and pose an imminent threat of violence. assault weapons bans don't seem to be going anywhere because of strong opposition. >> i have covered so many of these from capitol hill, so many of these shootings. i covered the wake of newtown extensively when they came as close as they have to passing a background check bill. it is getting to the point where every time this happens it is impossible to not think, well, here's another one. here is another instance where members of congress aren't going to do anything. . >> it is easy to fall into that despair. that many dead kids doesn't move congress to act, what will?

something about this weekend felt different. i don't know if it's because the president's rhetoric was matched so closely by what he said in his screed in el paso. but i'm hopeful. i have to hold on to that optimism or it will eat me from the inside. that we can't come together to do something about this. how many more people have to tie before congress does something? there is broad support for background checks. can we at least do that? >> why can't we? . >> the last major gun control law was passed 25 years ago. in the ensuing decades we have had basically every conceivable constellation of power in washington, d.c. between the two parties and the two branches of government, elected branches. in the 25 years, despite this rise in mass shootings, especially in the last half dozen years, nothing has happened. fundamentally public support, even if stated as being for some

of these initiatives controlling guns, when revealed in elections and the people they sent to washington they don't want to change the system all that much. >> i will say if i can, it shifted a lot since newtown. that lit a fire under the gun control movement. we saw this in the 2018 election. exit polls showed guns ranked as the number four issues. they supported democrats by a margin of 40 points. that was a remarkable thing. 2018, we don't know if that is going to hold. it shows the intensity is shifting in the direction of gun control for the first time in a very long time, since maybe the early 90s. >> you saw how this was handled in florida after the parkland shooting by republicans. state office shows, to your point, maybe it will take getting kids elected to congress down the road to materially change. clearly there is something going on. i want to show a little bit more of some of the things that the president has said, some of the language that he has used that

showed up in that screed that was written by the shooter in el paso according to our reporting. let's watch. >> we have to end human smuggling, stop human trafficking, shut down sanctuary cities, deport criminal aliens. when you see caravans starting out with 20,000 people, that was an invasion. i was badly criticized for using the word invasion. look at the people they put into these lotteries. it's a disgrace. >> so that just a little bit -- matt, ending human smuggling and human trafficking, shutting down sanctuary cities is more controversial. those are all policy positions. this description as an invasion and some of the ways in which this president used dehumanizing language to describe immigrants, african-americans, others in our country, how is it that that

doesn't have an effect? how can it not? . >> well, it certainly is having an effect on our culture and public discourse. we did see the beginnings of a backlash to it in last year's midterm elections. the president made the caravans, so-called, a huge issue in the run up to that election. and he was defeated. they were able to expand the majority of the senate somewhat. in the races where it counted, i think there was backlash against that language. as i think he recognized there was a backlash to his language surrounding the squad and the go back rhetoric and then the chant that broke out at the rally. >> why does the white house seem to think it is going to work? i think -- i hope they are realizing it won't work. and if the president just continues to say what he said today, i think he will be able to steer us in a healthier direction as a democracy and improve his chances in the republican party as well. the question is can he maintain this direction? >> are it seemed to me that the

president, while, yes, he made a nod to hateful ideologies, he didn't exactly acknowledge his own role in this at all. is that not just a continuation of what we have seen before? . >> it is a continuation of what we have seen before. it's kind of how he ran in 2016. he's always been comfortable running that way. in 2018, allies will argue his rhetoric and his highlights of immigration and the caravan saved senate seats in red states. i hate to reduce this to political strategy. but he is speaking to rural america, white america. >> and told reporters this. >> and the danger of course is in suburban area the mood has changed very rapidly in favor of gun control. how does that play for him next time around if he does keep doing this? >> yeah. to that point as well, i mean, daniela, there has been some backlash, mick mulvaney talked about bernie sanders supporters

shooting up the baseball field, talking about whether your ideology, whether the ideology of people who support left wing candidates means that they should take responsibility. but i just don't see any politicians on the left talking the way donald trump was. >> exactly. it of mick mulvaney's best try at both sides ism. you don't have bernie sanders, aoc or any other politician on the left consistently using in citeful language, racist rhetoric. republicans twisted themselves into knots to avoid saying what the president is saying is race i have the, to say the president is emboldening white nationalists. until we get to that point, until we get to that reckoning, the trump we see on twitter, his rallies, that's the real donald trump. trump reading from a teleprompter is not him.

until he shows me otherwise, that's what i'm going to continue to believe because that is what he has shown time and time again. . >> stay with us, please. coming up ahead, a hate-filled screed and horrific massacre. later, new york city mayor and 2020 candidate bill de blasio. the newspaper front pages chronicled this terrible moment. the dayton daily news calls the attack there a miami valley tragedy. el paso times is seeking answers after devastation. the headline in the "boston globe", this is what we've become. and on the cover of the philadelphia daily news, god help us. this is the couple who wanted to get away who used expedia to book the vacation rental that led to the ride ♪ which took them to the place

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welcome back. authorities are looking into a lengthy anti-immigrant screed posted online saturday that may

have been written by the el paso gunman. like the writings of the tree of life gunman in pittsburgh, both works echo president trump's rhetoric, warning of an invasion at the southern border. while the epidemic of gun deaths predates the president, these cases are raising uncomfortable questions about the impact of his inflammatory rhetoric, especially when combined with the white supremacist violence during his term. >> i will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we have investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white suprema supremacy. but it includes other things as well. . >> joining me is ben collins, our reporter who specializes on this beat. difficult beat on the internet for nbc news. jim kavanaugh, former special agent in charge at the atf, and

nate snyder, senior counterterrorism official in the obama administration. thank you all for being here. jim, let me start with you just big picture here. what is causing the phenomenon that the fbi director was talking about there, increasingly the threats that they are seeing here in the united states, the domestic terrorism cases are motivated by white supremacy or white nationalism? >> while, white supremacy has descended. we are truly, in fact, kasie, in the '60s. i know that era. i chased the nazis in my career. i looked yesterday on the website at the southern property law center just to count the number of civil righaoeutights on their memorial. 38 people were killed, including four girls at the baptist

church, three at the freedom writers case, vernon don ger. we have exceeded this number, grossly exceeded this number with the emanuel church, the sikh temple, the synagogue. and new zealand, the numbers are revolting. we are worse in the murders of minority citizens than we were in the '60s. so we are in a very bad place. white supremacy is ascendant. certainly digital hate, recruiting on the internet. but they get away with the violence because of the silence. it was dr. king who said, you know, we will long forget the words of our enemies but we will remember the silence of our friends. and the silence is deafening from the political class up there. there's people in the senate that should just leave.

just resign. because you're silent on the issue facing america like this. white supremacy is ascendant. it feels emboldened, it feels strong, it feels supported. it is doing everything, kasie. we see government actions they would themes do. they would put immigrants in cages. they would deny them everything. they would let them sit there. call them infestation. they would have a newer ' nueremberg march. we need to wake up and speak up and vote. i would close with this one thought from the beginning of your section he's. if you were in birmingham in 1963 and they beat the klans man, killed the four little girls at the birmingham church,

they turned the hoses on them. can which side are you on? are you on the side of the people just trying to vote? you have to pick a side. we're there now. we're there today. there is no choice. you have to pick a side. if you pick silence, then we know what side you're on. >> nate snyder, how is this environment that jim is talking about contributing to this -- the rise that we are seeing? you have practiced this in trying to combat these attacks. is it, in fact, the president's rhetoric contributing to this? how much does that play into what we are seeing happening? >> well, i think that is a very important question. you talk about the president. just look at where he's coming from. the leader of the free world. the largest megaphone on the globe. and he is citing violent, domestic terrorist-based tropes

and narratives. and doing it openly for political benefit. words and narratives have consequences. and we're seeing this in realtime. we're seeing it unfold. and i think in previous panel, the narrative itself was trying to be identified. this is a known white supremacist violent domestic terrorist narrative. it is called the great replacement. i think jim mentioned anders brevik who cited it. the attacker in christchurch cited it, san diego, pittsburgh. i could keep going. the fact that you are seeing these narratives and tropes being espoused by the president, the way he is doing it you could put it side by side with the screeds and there would be no discernible difference. so i think until the president comes out and says he is against domestic terrorism -- he didn't say that today. what he is against domestic terrorism and he vehemently says

that, then maybe we're headed in the right direction. unfortunately that may not be the case. but we'll see. i think we will see proof is in the pudding when it comes to the rallies. when it comes to twitter. but i think unfortunately the remarks he gave earlier frankly were a bit of lipstick on a pig. >> ben collins, you spend more time than i would ever want to looking at what is going on in the darkest corners of the internet that, you know, have inspired so many of these attackers. what do they hear when they hear the president say things like what he said today where he talks about condemning white supremacy, racism and bigotry, but didn't seem to take the next step in, you know, saying -- talking about how his own rhetoric may have contributed to it. in past he talked about people on both sides of charlottesville, for example. how does that resonate in these

plates where all of this stuff starts? >> so with overt white nationalists, they view this as like -- this is what we have been talking about for years. why is this guy doing anything about it? they take it into their own hands because they think he's soft on this, which is kind of interesting. they have a race war in their space they are going to act on. that's what they think. he agrees with them. that's generally the belief there. but they don't think he is doing enough and they think they have to take it into their own hands. for example, the tree of life shooter said screw the optics. i'm going in, before he did it. do you happen what that means? do they know what it looks like? they know generally what people believe about this sort of thing. they know that whatever happens is going to be written off as a false flag or a spirit theory or something like that.

but they also desperately want an exclusively white country. that's what is going on in this place. you know, if we don't really tackle this very soon in a way that combines, you know, the executive branch and law enforcement and just civic engagement as well, we're going to start -- i mean, i was really worried about this. a couple of weeks ago, months ago now. because we now -- there is a playbook. there is a manifesto that you post before -- on a specific website before you go and you participate in the civil war that you are going to pop up somewhere and only you're armed. that's their game plan. and that's what they see. they see a call to action in a lot of these words. and then they go and they act. >> and what then is the answer to stopping this? we know 8chan was down for a while. another company kicked them off today. how do we stop it? >> it's a long process. first of all, we have to get a

public understanding about how important this is. kids can get radicalized from basic stuff. if your kid is on a youtube tutorial or video games or body building forum or something, you have to track where they're headed they might end up down a white nationalist path without making a single decision. we need people to start paying attention to that. we need the government to start monitoring very specific like when somebody posts a manifesto, we now know what that means. this is going to take a government civic engagement. it is going to take everything we have. it's going to take some time. >> all right. ben, jim, nate, thank you all very much for coming on tonight. thank you for your perspective. >> coming up next, our nation is left grieving, we are left to wonder what can government do now to stop these horrific

attacks? new york city mayor and 2020 democratic candidate bill de blasio joins me coming up. ns me customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar? . thanks, lady. taxi! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ [ referee whistle sounds ] ♪ sport dr[ cheering ]s when you need the fuel to be your nephew's number one fan. holiday inn express. we're there. so you can be too. background checks on guns.e that we should have but congress won't act because the nra and gun manufacturers have purchased our government. that's just plain wrong.

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most pills only block one. flonase. we've had to do this far too many times before. fresh grief, as we remember those who lost their lives to senseless violence. arturo was at the walmart this past weekend. he lived in the city all of his life and was married 30 years. his family says he was always

caring. if maybe a little bit stubborn. angelina had just spoken to her son on the phone that morning. she had seven children. her granddaughter says she was a very strong person. jordan and andrea were both killed. they were inside the walmart with their 2-month-old. their baby survived. 22 were killed in el paso. and then there came tragedy in dayton where nine people died. people like lois oglesby. she was the mother of two and had just been on maternity leave from school. she was studying to become a nurse. logan turner had just turned 30. the engineering student was out celebrating his recent birthday with his friends. nicholas cumer was 25. he was a grad student working towards a master's degree in cancer care. and he was interning for a dayton non-profit group that helps cancer survivors.

those are just some of the victims of this weekend's shootings. of course to their families, their friends, their friends, they were so much more than that. we've had to do this too many times before, reflecting somberly on the circumstances that are laid before us. and among all the questions that we still have, it's a deeply painful one. if nothing changes, how soon will we have to do it again? every day, visionaries are creating the future.

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there is a complicity in the president's hatred that undermines the goodness and the decent say of americans regardless of what party. >> he is a racist. and he stokes racism in this country. >> look, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, but i think all of the evidence out there suggests we have a president who is a racist. welcome back. those were some of the 2020

presidential candidates on the democratic side who say president trump is partially complicit in saturday's shooting in el paso. with me another 2020 hopeful, new york city mayor bill de blas blasio. let's start right there. does the president bear responsibility for what happened in el paso. >> yeah. and the facts are pretty clear. with he did not have this racially or ethnically or religiously motivated violence as a regular feature of our national life just a few years ago. he's "the x factor". he normalized it. he made it. he gave permission. and it's got to stop. it's obvious when "the voice" is supposed to be the paternal voice or the maternal voice in the country, "the voice" that is supposed to set the tone for the whole country, encourages division and hate. starting with his first visit down the escalator attacking

mexicans. >> i remember president obama's way of leading after something like this happened was to go down to charleston and sing amazing grace with the people at the emanuel ame church. what i am interested in knowing is what is the difference in your view between that and how you handle it in that way and how this president is handling these things and what does it mean? does it mean we are encouraging people to do more of this? >> yeah. i don't think he's handling it. from time to time he reads a script to allow him to say something. he did something -- he said something appropriate. but the messaging from the beginning has been overtly divisive and it's ramped up in recent weeks. so when i see these attacks, white supremacy tragically unites so much of america. it is aimed at lgbtq, asian people, immigrants, the vast

majority of america that's under attack. it will wake people up. it is not exclusive to one part of our country. it's coming for all of us. the constant attack of people of color. >> that's what you saw this morning, him pretending? >> oh, yeah. that wasn't real. you can't attack a parade of leaders of color. you can't attack mexicans the first day of your campaign. and then pretend that you are trying to unify or you haven't been the cause of the problem. he is t"the x factor". it's not us. we don't have to be this way as a country. you are seeing more and more americans who want to get along. a generation free of a lot of biases. sopbgs he's arpbd, he is fomenting the forces. >> do you think president trump is a white nationalist?

>> in his own way, she. sure. look at what he does. he celebrates white culture to the exclusion of all other cultures. and he consistently suggests that people of color in particular are harming this nation when there's so many other people who built this nation. we're so shocked by it. we have never had this phenomenon. we have seen times where we have gone astray. i mentioned the mccarthy period. a lot of leaders september the wrong message and started to turn the country into something it wasn't. then finally more and more voices of conscience spoke up. it is the not the first time we have seen leaders try to take us down a dangerous and divisive road. it has to be republicans, democrats, independents, faith leaders. we have to break out of this spiral. and we have to defeat, i believe, really practically we have to defeat trump as part of it. but even beyond that, you can defeat trump but not trumpism. the forces unleashed down

through history, all over europe right now, whatever frustration is built up, they have been very, very cynically tapped into by white nationalist forces. maybe honest economic frustration, people given the wrong idea how things happen. you don't address that passively. you have to address that actively. that will take leaders of all types stepping forward to end this era. >> law enforcement officials in new york city have in many ways led the way for our country in fighting against terrorism. >> yes. >> but the focus in the last couple decades has been for obvious reasons, international terrorism. there is now a struggle to try and apply that to domestic terrorism. what have you learned as mayor that you think we should apply nationally in that fight? >> we found we could get closer to communities. our police could build stronger bonds with communities. a lot of information would start

to flow. a lot of times you have heard those kinds of terrorist attacks. the ones we have seen over a decade stopped because community members came forward to the police. that bond, that communication makes all the difference. it's true with white nationalism as well. they had a sense of someone going in the right direction. there will be family members, people at work who see something wrong. we have got to create a culture where they come forward. if you see something, say something. but a deep bond between law enforcement and communities. i can tell you, the most diverse place on earth, we found a way to do it and it saved a lot of lives. we have to do it all over the country now. >> do you have confidence that all of the institutions that need to work together to solve the problems are capable of doing it? we need social media companies, national law enforcement, local law enforcement. all across the board. congress, a lot of americans are frustrated, doesn't seem to do

much when there is a shooting like this on tkpwupbgs. are we capable of it? . >> we are capable but not living up to our potential. law enforcement knew it was a danger. they have plenty of painful experience dealing with them. they are more than ready. faith leaders are more than ready. i think the social media companies need to up their game right now. they are part of this. the number one missing piece is the congress should come back right this minute, background checks, waiting periods for gun purchase. that's what the american majority wants and the congress has a moment. with he saw it in florida after the tragedy of parkland. even republicans in florida said we hear our constituents. we have to do something. u.s. congress needs to do the same. >> we definitely have seen the ground shifting. mayor, thank you very much for coming on and sharing your views

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ is there anything in your mind that the president can do now to make this any better? >> what do you think? you know that he's been saying. he's been calling mexican immigrants rapists and criminals. like members of the press, what the [ bleep ] -- >> welcome back. saturday's shooting in el paso obviously was incredibly personal for beto o'rourke who once represented that city in

congress. sa hill, daniela and matthew are back. daniela, pretty emotional and honest reaction there from beto o'rourke. not necessarily words we normally hear from a presidential candidate, but obviously not normal circumstances. >> yeah, i tweeted that i felt those words in my soul, and then when i actually heard the audio, i was like, that's exactly right. and i think if you don't feel that way after this happened, then i'm going to question, like, what's going on with you. and, look, we're in very strange times where the president of the united states has said some questionable things i won't let my child hear. so the fact he got emotional talking about the shooting that happened in his home city i'm not surprised and i think it's appropriate. >> yeah. sa hill, we've seen a little bit of i don't want to say division among democrats because there's obviously been universal condemnation of trump, but some have been willing to go farther than others in how they label him. some have called him a white nationalist while others have resisted going that far.

what's behind their thinking in that? >> the pendulum has moved quite a bit on this. i remember reporting a story out whether they were willing to call the president racist. they weren't then. now pretty much all of them are. we're seeing increased movement in that direction where more will are willing to call him a white nationalist. we know what the reason is. his rhetoric is fueling that exact charge. i think condemnation of his rhetoric in terms of how it's affecting and bolstering white nationalists in a certain way, in certain corners of the internet, is what's behind that. >> matthew, what's your sense -- i mean, republicans have -- i mean, first of all, they have not been wanting to put themselves in front of cameras on this. this is a difficult thing for many of them to talk about. they are talking about things like video games. they are having a different conversation, than obviously democrats are. they are not for the most wart wanting to criticize this president. and that's, you know, been true across a wide variety of issues.

at what point does that change? i mean, that says to me that they still think politically it's suicide to attack the president. >> they're right, considering donald trump's approval rating among republican party members and supporters. so when does that change? it would change if trump were toe lose in 2020. >> if there moral tension there for these people? >> i mean, it depends on which person you're talking about. there are some republicans who are more willing to criticize the president on policies or personalities than others, a variety of reasons. it's hard to generalize. >> yeah, there was i think a state senator from oklahoma or nebraska -- >> nebraska, um-hmm. >> who basically said he could be silent no longer and the history books will judge people on what they do here. i understand these are politicians, so they're making a political calculus, but i really would like all republicans to take a step back and think about how they will be judged by their silence during this moment in

history books. >> there is a lot of moral tension. i mean, there are senators, republican senators like ben sass or marco rubio who used to be very critical of president trump. then they saw what happened to other people in the party that were critical of donald trump. they retired, got washed out of office, 4r069 their primaries. people like them have gone quiet about it. big picture wise, 2020 election, we're going to see the stark est contrast, sharp est contrast between republicans and democrats on the issue of gun control where both parties want to run on this. republicans pro second amendment. >> we had that contrast in 2016. i'd say the contrast helped president trump. i remember in the debate when president trump -- then citizen trump -- challenged hillary clinton on a recording that said that she was ready for the supreme court to reverse the heller decision. i think the trump campaign at the time made a lot of political hay out of that. so this contrast, while the political pendulum may have

shifted to the left on some of these issues, it is not clear that making gun control front and center will benefit the democrats in 2020. >> and clinton dialed it back in the general election. she was pretty emphatic on gun control in the primary because she had a favorable contrast with bernie sanders, but she walked away a little bit from that issue in the general electio election i don't think that's going to happen now. >> thank you very much. we will be right back. ery much we will be right back. every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work.

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a brief programming note

before we go. do join brian williams, rachel maddow and nicolle wallace for a special report, a nation in crisis. they're going to take a hard look at gun violence and domestic terrorism tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that's all for "meet the press" daily tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow and "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. ari, good evening. >> thank you, casey. good evening. and thank you for joining us on a day of mourning. america is still reeling from two mass shootings just hours apart as you know. we have special reporting tonight. we begin with the facts as we know them this hour. they are grisly. a gunman killing 22 people after sharing a racist immigrant thought, another killing 9 at a bar in dayton, ohio. for many reflecting on all this here tonight, there are no words left. because what is is there to say? but today was still another