i could have talked to these friends for another hour. my thanks to ben rhodes, al sharpton, theres kumar. mostly allally all, thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. golf, twitter, and cable news. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. president trump left washington this morning, but his problems will most certainly follow him on his ten-day vacation at his new jersey golf club. as jonathan lemire of the associated press notes, his summer vacation comes as he is confronting a storm of crises. quote, his poll numbers stalled and his act to rally the questioned he is being tested by an escalating trade war with china that may slow the economy, rising tensions with iran and north korea, and in the aftermath of the latest mass

shootings, pressure to act on guns and face accusations of his own role in fostering an environment of hate. but aides say his attention will be focused on golf, cable news, and twitter. as the president was leaving the white house this morning, he was asked about one of these crises, being called a white supremacist by eight democratic presidential candidates in the wake of the massacre in el paso. >> i don't think it helps. first of all, i don't like it when they do it, because i am not any of those things. i think it's a disgrace. and i think it shows how desperate the democrats are. >> the president's own language characterizing hispanic migrants as an invasion was echoed in an online declaration of hate by the suspected gunman. today law enforcement officials confirmed the el paso suspect said he was specifically targeting mexicans. meanwhile, president trump insisted today that gun control legislation strengthening

background checks is coming, despite reports the nra warned the president it would be unpopular with his base. >> i spoke to mitch mcconnell yesterday. he's totally on board. he said i've been waiting for your call. he is totally on board on background checks. we have tremendous support for really common sense, sensible, important background checks. we'll see where the nra will be. but we have to have meaningful background checks. >> but a spokesman for senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said he actually hasn't endorsed any specific gun legislation at this point. for more, i'm joined by jonathan lemire, white house reporter for the associated press, a interim president of the latino victory fund and democratic candidate for congress in new york's 15th district, and john podhoretz, editor at commentary magazine. thanks for being for being with us. john lemire, you wrote the story we're quoting from there.

let me ask you with a you're hearing from behind the scenes, from folks in the white house, folks around trump at the end of this week? do they feel there was a missed opportunity here this week? do they feel that this is something that's going to reverberate for weeks, for months, for the rest of his -- at least first term as presidency? do they think there is lasting damage here? >> there is a few things going on at once. i think there is a sense around the president that wednesday did not go as well as it should have. wednesday he went to visit the mass shooting sites in ohio and texas. he ended up spending a day that was meant to be to console the grieving into a day of airing his own grievances. he made the day very much about himself while he was there. and as much as those around him were sort of forced to echo that statement, members of his staff who sort of tweeted again attacking senator brown, that the mayor of dayton suggesting they were being too political, there is a sense there that that was a moment he could have shown some real leadership and it didn't work out.

he left today for bedminster. he was at a fundraiser -- a rather controversial fundraiser in the hamptons first and now on to bedminster where he'll remain for ten days. we expect to see him a few times there will be a couple of events in new jersey. he is going the travel to pennsylvania on tuesday. he has a rally coming up as well in new hampshire later in the week. but largely, he is going to be out of sight. and there is a sense here as to what happens next with this issue of guns. he is under extreme pressure right now to make something happen. you saw him on the south lawn when he left the white house today, suggesting he had talked to senate majority leader mcconnell, he had talked to the nra. he portrayed it as if there is some momentum there. we don't know how reliable a narrater he is. mcconnell has balked previously about certain measures. the nra has not signed off on the background checks idea. the president certainly is wildly popular with republicans. he has the ability, if he wants, to provide cover for republicans. this is a moment to act on background checks, even in a limited way, to give them something, to show some sort of

victory on gun control, if you will. but those around him aren't sure what's going to happen, particularly over the next days or weeks. does the momentum sort of dissipate? we have seen the news cycle is so fast. as tragic as this was last weekend, will this still be what we're talking about in a few days? and if we're not, the president might ease off the gas pedal. and for the forge forward. >> everybody can remember going back to the campaign certainly since he is president, going the these conventions, an annual event, the hero's welcome he receive there's. that's also part of the backdrop. we'll talk more than in a minute. but melissa and john, i want to ask the same question here. in some ways what we saw this week, it was in some ways, something we've never seen before with the president. in other ways, it's a continuation of the story we've seen with trump. there are ceremonial moments, ceremonial aspects, sort of national grieving taking place. and he takes it in a direction we have not seen modern

democratic or republican presidents do. i ask you this, melissa. is there anything new or different that you think americans take from this week and how the president handled it in terms of how they take the measure of him or do they end up viewing this as par for course? >> anyone that is waiting for some sort of dramatic shift in tone from this president, and i've got a bridge to sell you. this individual has shown his true colors. the fact that he would take a moment like wednesday where he is visiting both ohio and texas to make it all about himself, to basically push back on people that are saying we need to grieve. we don't need you here right now, and not taking that message. to then go to the hospital and take photos and utilize it for some sort of campaign, this is all about who he is. we as latinos have just witnessed possibly the most incredible moment, negative, obviously, of a domestic terrorist attack targeted to us as latinos for who we are.

and this was under this administration. and so i -- we are very concerned, right? that we're not going to see any changes. we've heard before the bluster about oh, we're going to do something about background checks. i would hope that something gets done. i don't really have a lot of faith it is going to get done. we're at a crossroads. we continue to go down a path a -- that's very dark. reverend dr. barber was in el paso the other day. i was there. he talked about white supremacy, it is about the words of racism. it is about the works of racism, and it is about the war of racism. and this is what this administration is perpetuating, the words, the rhetoric. when you talk about the policies is the works of racism. and then when you see the war that is now being taken in terms of violence against communities that are particularly of color in this country. it's a very dark moment, and i have a -- it's very hard for us to find any sort of silver lining right now. >> same question to you, john. is there anything different, more lasting, deeper that you sense in how people are reacting to and processing this past

week? >> no, no, i would say that what we see here is every couple of months something happens and the president behaves in a certain way that then reminds people who might conceivably start feeling more positively about him because of the state of the economy and the fact that we haven't had the military adventurism and all of that. and it's like he strums the guitar, and they remember his discordant performance. so what we have here is a kind of moment of oh, no not again. like once again we have a president who can't rise to this kind of occasion. this is not among the people who are solidly, definitely going to vote for him. >> these are the reluctant trump voters? >> either the reluctant trump voters or the people on the fence or something like that, the people in those 40 republican districts in november 2018 who went the other way, that he's got to get back or got to get some of them back in

order to prevail in november 2020. and i think this is the danger for him. the thing that he should do right now is go silent and play golf. he should go on vacation, go have meetings on national security and do all that. he will not be able to resist getting into fights on twitter, yelling at people, doing all of that at a moment at which we just spent five days watching him be extremely uncomfortable with the trappings and bearings of the classical responsibilities of the presidency. in no way, shape or form can this be imagined that it could help him. it may be something that fades or evanesces. it kind of leaves a residue. all of these moments where he fails leave a residue. >> that's what i'm wondering too, john. for the time of voter that john is describing here, say the reluctant trump voter, however you want to define it, folks who did not go into this with a strong opinion of trump, but

either voted for him anyway in 2016. maybe they didn't like clinton even more. maybe they're still open to it, but they're not wild about him. is there a breaking point for them? is there a walk-away point? does this potentially rise to a higher level than some of these other moments that john is describing? is there a sense in the white house that that's a risk? >> there is some nervousness about it. that is the question. he will have a second term or not depending on those voters, by a lot of analysis. there is concern around him that he has not, as john just said very rightly, has not risen to the moment here. there have been a number of occasions like this. let's remember parkland, the shooting a year and a half ago at this point where he also vowed to be tough on guns. as soon as the nra got in his ear, he walked away from it. i think that will be harder for him now. he certainly has the ability. the nra is in a weakened position at the moment. wayne lapierre is at the center of more scandals than i can count. he would be in a position where perhaps the president who is so popular among republicans can provide some cover and move

forward. there are suburban voters. there are independents. the democrats we might have caught last time around who even now might still be pretty happy with where the economy is, but those in the white house are worried that the president is letting them down. and it's not just this moment. it's the last couple of weeks. take those at once. the idea that the undeniably racist rhetoric towards the four democratic congressmen of color. the attacks on representative elijah cummings and baltimore. and now as he goes on vacation, this sort of series of storms he is going to have to confront. the idea of not just the aftermath of the shooting and what responsibility he made bare for his are being, for his anti-immigration record, rhetoric mirrored by the shooter in el paso, but also are the chickens coming home to roost perhaps with north korea and iran and particularly china in that trade deal. and if the economy slows down, that is the number one thing the people around the president are panicked about. that is his number one argument

for re-election, the good economy. >> and of course -- >> if the economy tanks -- >> and the folks around him of course want him to be talking a lot more than he is. >> the other issue, obviously i think a more generally, we have to talk about the republican party. because you have both the senate that is out of session and refuses to even consider an emergency like this where this is a crisis that the nation is going through. it is a crisis that certain communities are living. each and every day us as latinos wake up what is the new level of depravity that this administration is going to inflict on us in terms of ripping our families apart. we just saw the raids that occurred, over 680, and how many children are being separated from their parents. this is a violent administration against communities of color. so it is generally the lack of inaction, right. how alienated this administration is to the reality that communities live. the fact that the republicans won't come back into session in the senate. when you have a president that is going to the hamptons and in this gilded moment, right, in this bubble that he is in with

people that are wealthy and are giving money and really completely removed from the reality that is being lived. it's a crisis. i understand -- >> all i was going to say is i don't know the specifics of whether or not the senate comes back in session or doesn't or that he has fundraisers are large enough to, you know, turn people against him, or they're too specific. they're too political and people don't follow them. what he says, what he tweets, how he acts, when he looks uncomfortable, what he does when he has that rally next week in new hampshire, those will matter in this sense also even dwelling on background checks. so if he pushes the republican party to accept background checks and somehow mysteriously makes it into law, that's kind of small beer. people who really want gun control, you can say this is really -- it's only a first step.

and everybody who believes that, you know, any step down that road is a step toward confiscation and the seizure of their guns and the abrogation of their second amendment rights is going to be unhappy. no one's going to be that happy. and so his back is against the wall. if he does -- if he does some kind of stopgap measure, yeah, maybe he'll say i did it, i did it, i did it. but the people who like him won't like it, and the people who don't like him won't be satisfied. >> but at the same time, even if he does that, it seems an open question if he can do that. if the nra says no, we're still against this, we've been with you, trump, but we're still against this, you've had this background check bill has not made it through the u.s. senate, has not made it through the republican, has not made it through mostly republican opposition. there are democrats who have opposed it too. so there's an open question if it can even get throughment we've got to cut it short here unfortunately. but thank you, jonathan lemire, melissa mark-viverito, john podhoretz.

good discussion there. coming up, a shakeup at the top level of nationalization as another career official fails the trump loyalty test, the country's number two intelligence official handed in her resignation and says the president should have his team. this just weeks after dan coats announced his departure, leaving two top intelligence posts unfilled. plus, after the roundup of nearly 700 undocumented workers in mississippi, why aren't more employers being punished for hiring undocumented immigrants? we'll look at that and a new report that the president himself continues to employ undocumented workers at his properties. much more ahead. stay with us. not this john smith or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith, who met with humana to create a personalized care plan. at humana, we have more ways to care for your health, and we find one that works just for you.

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a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back to "hardball." the two top positions in the u.s. intelligence community are now vacant after the deputy director of national intelligence sue gordon resigned her post yesterday. according to nbc news, gordon tendered her resignation after she learned she would be passed over for the top job that outgoing director dan coats is

leaving next week. by law, gordon was supposed to be next in line. and coats even recommended that she replace him. but the white house objected. in a handwritten note, gordon told the president, quote, i offer this letter as an act of respect and patriotism, not preference. you should have your team. hours after the news broke, the president revealed that he will instead appoint joseph maguire, the director of the national counterterrorism center to be the acting director of national intelligence. this latest shake-up follows trump's botched attempt to install congressman john ratcliffe into that job last week, but ratcliffe's name was dropped over his lack of experience. now the president is signaling he is in no rush to find a permanent replacement for maguire once he takes over. >> i'm in no rush. admiral maguire is a very talented man. he is a great leader as an admiral. he is always a great leader. always a man respected by

everybody. and he is going to be there for a period of time. who knows. maybe he gets the job. but he'll be -- he'll be there for a period of time, maybe a longer period of time than we think we'll see. >> maguire will become one of numerous trump administration officials fulfilling their roles in acting capacities. i'm joined now by evelyn farkas, former deputy secretary of defense and chuck rosenberg, a former senior fbi official and former u.s. attorney. thanks to both of you for being with us. evelyn, let me start with you. sort of an extraordinary series of events here. when you look at gordon, somebody who had such strong institutional support, somebody who had the support of the outgoing dni, being told you're not even going to get this on an interim basis, and then attaching this note. this is an act of respect and patriotism, not preference. she says this to the president in her note. what do you make of what happened here?

what do you make of trump and the white house's reluctance and refusal to appoint here? what do you think that stems from? >> yeah, i think, steve, it was an act of frustration on her part, certainly, because she fully expected that she should be at least acting, if not considered for the top job, although usually those people are a little bit more high profile and a little bit more political. so it was a slap, a slap in her face. so she was essentially telling the president i don't like this, but because you are passing me over as acting, i can't stay on any longer, and, you know, effectively she would be demoted eventually. and so unfortunately, what that tells the rest of the intelligence community is that the president doesn't respect a serious professional like her. i've met her before. i've heard her speak. i know that she is very well respected, deeply and also widely across the intelligence community. and so here the president is telling someone like that i don't value who you are and what you stand for. that's disturbing to the

community writ large because they're a lot like her. >> so, chuck, pick up that point because, yes, the president is entitled to have whoever he wants in positions like this, but the concern that's being expressed is hey, you had dan coats there who had this reputation, certainly the last couple of years on both sides of the aisle of being sort of, for lack of a better term, being unafraid to give truths to the president that maybe he didn't want to hear that was the reputation, at least. the concern is that the president maybe isn't interested in somebody who would continue that legacy. joseph maguire, who the president is going with instead here, instead of gordon, is that a valid concern about joseph maguire? what do you know about him? >> well, admiral maguire has had a long and storied career in the united states navy. he is well regarded and well respected, but he doesn't have the deep background in intelligence that sue gordon does, and to evelyn's point, and i think she is exactly right, all of this sends a signal to

the intelligence community, like law enforcement, intelligence has to be two things. it has to be apolitical and it has to be perceived as apolitical. and so you want to be very careful in selecting top leaders in those lines of work because you need people who will be divorced entirely from politics and will speak truth to power. sue gordon had that reputation. i have no idea whether or not admiral maguire will be good or bad or permanent or temporary. he is well regarded. he comes from an important and respected naval background, but he's not an intelligence professional. >> well, in a statement on maguire's appointment, mark warner, the ranking democrat on the senate intelligence committee, he said maguire's success or failure in this position will be judged by the quality of work produced by the intelligence community, not by how those intelligence products make the president feel. evelyn, the fact that this is at least for right now going to be

an interim appointment, going to be an acting appointment, and there are so many like this in this administration right now. and as we showed in the president's comments, there is the prospect that this will be an interim appointment that extends for some period of time potentially, does that affect the quality of work that will be presented to the president from the intelligence community? >> hopefully not. i mean, steve, certainly the quality of work that will be produced i'm sure will be as excellent, as it has been to date. these people are trained professionals. the question is what is put in front of the president. now here i also think that admiral maguire will be a professional. i know him, actually. i've known him a long time, since he was a s.e.a.l. and since he was top commander of the u.s. navy s.e.a.l.s. he is professional. he is apolitical. i don't know how he will be in this role. we've never seen him in a role that is a little bit more political under this kind of pressure from the president. so the question is, yes, what will he present? and what will the president be willing to see.

i think what's more troubling is that it's an interim position because it adds uncertainty to the workforce, and, of course, he himself will be a weaker leader. >> meanwhile, other developments out of washington this week after the house judiciary committee debated for months about whether to open a formal impeachment inquiry. the chairman, jerry nadler, he now says the committee's investigation is an impeachment inquiry. >> this is formal impeachment proceedings. we are investigating all the evidence. we're gathering the evidence. and we will at the conclusion of this, hopefully by the end of vote to -- vote articles of impeachment to the house floor, or we won't. that's a decision we have to make. but that's exactly the process we're in right now. >> so, chuck, this has confused quite a few people i think. there has been no formal vote by the house to convene impeachment inquiry of the judiciary committee. there has been no formal vote of

the committee to do that. what it sounds like nadler is saying is, hey, we are going to do the legwork that would be done in a formal impeachment inquiry. and that can lead to a vote on whether to proceed at some point in the future. do you read this as a sincere move potentially towards impeachment on the part of democrats? or do you view this more as a sop to activists, to members of the party who want to have some sort of impeachment inquiry, maybe even nadler himself who wanted to have some sort of impeachment inquiry? >> how about option c, steve. i see it as something else. i see it as a legal strategy. let's go back four and a half decades. in 1974, the u.s. supreme court in u.s. v nixon said executive privilege is a real thing, but it's a qualified privilege. and sometimes it has to give way to more important things. that thing back then was a grand jury proceeding. and so by calling it an impeachment inquiry, what nadler

is doing is setting up the house in a better litigating position to challenge assertions of executive privilege or to get documents in ongoing court cases. so i don't know that it's a sop. i don't see it through a political lens. i see it as part of a legal strategy to strengthen their hand in ongoing court cases. >> yeah, the calendar, of course, just the politics of it, the calendar is a factor of nadler out there saying by the end of this calendar year, reaching some kind of decision on what to do. you've had other democrats out there already who support impeachment saying got to make that decision by september 1. i heard one say got to make it by thanksgiving. now you've got nadler saying end of the year. and of course november 2020 you do have an election. that's going to happen no matter what. thank you to evelyn farkas, chuck rosenberg. i appreciate the time. up next, the mass arrest of hundreds of undocumented immigrants at food processing plants in mississippi has-torn torn families apart and sent a chilling message to latino communities. but many are wondering why the

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it's fuel for thought. i want people to know that if they come into the united states illegally, they're getting out. they're going to be brought out. and this serves as a very good deterrent. if people come into our country illegally, they're going out.

>> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump this morning, defending what i.c.e. officials are calling the largest statewide immigration sweep in the country. immigrants were rounded up from seven different food processing plants in mississippi. nearly half have been released, leaving hundreds more still in custody and separated from their families. however, no charges have been filed against any of the employers of those plants. one of the companies releasing a statement today saying they are fully cooperating with the authorities in their investigation and that they, quote, adhere strongly to a local, state and federal laws, including utilizing government-based e verify program. data shows that for employers, the chances of criminal prosecution remains low. one analysis found from april of 2018 through march of 2019, 11 employers were prosecuted for hiring undocumented immigrants. that is compared to over 120,000 undocumented immigrants

prosecuted through i.c.e. for more, i am joined by leon fresco, a former deputy assistant, u.s. attorney general from the obama administration. he oversaw all civil immigration litigation for the federal government. leon, thanks for taking a few minutes. okay. you saw the stats. large number of undocumented immigrants. small number of employers. by employers, we're talking individuals here prosecuted over that one-year period. why that vast gulf? >> yes, steve. that's because the law in this area is a mess. it's the easiest thing for i.c.e. to do in this situation is to actually pick up the undocumented worker, detain them, break up their family and remove them. in order to deal with the company, the i.c.e. has to determine that the company either has a pattern or practice of immigration violations or actually was complicit in making fake documents and engaging in visa fraud. if the employer simply accepted documents that look reasonable enough, the employer can't be

prosecuted in that situation. which is why we see so few prosecutions of employers in that situation. is that a reasonable standard in your experience? do you think that's a reasonable standard to hold employers to, or should the law be toughened? should it be -- there be more latitude to go after employers? >> the problem is the law was designed to 1986 when we didn't have any technology. in the 2013 senate comprehensive immigration bill, it actually would have given employers a very simple red light/green light system that would have been based on biometric identification that would have said if you're the person you claim to be, we'll either take your picture or a fingerprint. and at that point, we will determine with a green light/red light system whether you can work or not. and if anyone else is found at the employer's sight, that is fine. but right now the employer is in a difficult situation because they cannot accept certain documents if they think they're fake. but if they think a document is fake and they're wrong, but they

can actually be sued by the employee for discrimination. so the laws are terrible and they have to be changed. >> in his remarks this morning, president trump made no mention of the companies that hire undocumented immigrants. it could be because the trump organization has reportedly relied on undocumented workers. "the washington post" reports that a trump-owned construction company has continued to use undocumented workers for his properties going back decades. one of those undocumented immigrants worked for the company for nine years, told "the post" if you're a good worker, papers don't matter. obviously having the president overseeing -- his administration overseeing these i.c.e. raids and the story in "the washington post" that same day raises all sorts of questions. take us through how the law works when it comes to companies like trump and news like that. is there any potential liability for a company like trump's with that kind of reporting? >> well, sure. any company who engages in a pattern or practice of knowingly

hiring undocumented workers can have criminal violations for the company and any employee of the company who helped to engage that. if someone were to say does president trump face a violation for that, well, the government would have to prove that the president himself helped to knowingly hire undocumented workers, meaning they would have to prove the president knew that a specific worker was undocumented and to hire them anyway, or that he helped people to get false documents. so none of the stories at the moment say anything like that, but that kind of pattern or practice could still lead organizations like the trump organization, for instance, to face a violation if they were going to be investigated. it would be the organization and not anyone specifically in it. >> all right, thank you, leon fresco. appreciate you taking a few minutes. >> thank you. up next, an avalanche of new polling on the democratic presidential race. we know who the front-runner is, but guess who is moving up? i'm heading over to the big

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welcome back to "hardball." we've been talking for months

about joe biden, the front-runner in the democratic race for president. but some new polling putting a spotlight on elizabeth warren, who has been moving up in the democratic race in some very interesting ways. let me show you, this is the average of all the national polls right now. you still see bernie sanders in second place nationally, barely, but elizabeth warren back in third place. biden, of course, as we say the front-runner. but we don't have a national primary. we start in iowa. the race in iowa looks different than this. it looks significantly different than this, if you believe the monmouth poll out this week. joe biden still in first place. bernie sanders not in second place in iowa. he is all the way down in fourth place. back in single digits and fading in this new monmouth pole. it's elizabeth warren who has moved up dramatically in iowa. it's elizabeth warren who is in second place in iowa. it's elizabeth warren who is within single digits now of joe biden, the leader in iowa. of course, when we talk about iowa, the democratic caucus electorate, we tend to be talking about more liberal

voters, more activist-oriented voters, and that is where the energy is. this is among self-described very liberal democrats in iowa. warren doubling up bernie sanders. you see biden. he is back in single digits. warren has moved up significantly in iowa. also, this poll suggests those who are most likely who are to go out. you've got to be there for hours. those who are most likely to go out and put that time commitment in a little bit more supportive of warren than sort of more general interests of voters. so warren moving up in iowa in striking distance. here's where things get interesting. because if warren let's imagine a world where warren catches biden in iowa. where she beats biden in iowa. what would come next? new hampshire. that's the next-door neighbor state for elizabeth warren. she is in third place right now. remember, massachusetts, new hampshire, the shared media market, all of that. she is seven points behind joe biden. a world where elizabeth warren wins iowa, where bernie sanders falls back far in iowa, and where joe biden, the

front-runner loses iowa, is that a world where elizabeth warren can make up that seven points and win new hampshire? in a world where elizabeth warren wins iowa and new hampshire, well, guess what, folks? this is the history. candidates who put that one-two punch together on the democratic side in modern times? if you win iowa and new hampshire, you win the nomination. i'm not saying any of this is going to happen. if this happens for warren, that would leave the big question mark. iowa and new hampshire do not have a lot of nonwhite voters. that is the big question with her campaign nationally. among white voters she is neck and neck with joe biden. among black voters she is back in single digits. biden up there near 50%. that's the question. if warren can put iowa and new hampshire together, can she also build her black support, her nonwhite support? that becomes the million dollar question for her. but the polling now suggesting there is at least for elizabeth warren a real pathway potentially to the democratic nomination. not something we were saying six months ago.

up next, labeling the president a white supremacist will actually help him get reelected. you're watching "hardball." you're watching "hardball. five million. there's everything from happy to extremely happy. there's also angry. i'm really angry clive! actually, really angry. thank you. but what if your business could understand what your customers are feeling... and then do something about it. turn problems into opportunities. thanks drone. customers into fanatics change the whole experience. alright who wants to go again? i do! i do! i have a really good feeling about this. we're going all in thion strawberries.ra, at their reddest, ripest, they make everything better. like our strawberry poppyseed salad and new strawberry summer caprese salad. order online for delivery. panera. food as it should be

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elizabeth warren, now explicitly calling the president a white supremacist. others haven't gone quite as far. biden has said trump encourages white supremacists. kamala harris said trump empowers them. axios reports that, quote, trump campaign officials believe the extraordinary charge that the president is a white supremacist will actually help him win in 2020, not only emboldening his base, but also alienating some mainstream republicans who think democrats have gone too far. trump was asked this morning if he thought being called a white supremacist helped him. >> i don't think it helps. first of all, i don't like it when they do it, because i am not any of those things. i think it's a disgrace. and i think it shows how desperate the democrats are. for them to throw out the race word. again, racist, racist, racist, that's all they use, to anybody. they call nancy pelosi a racist. she's not a racist. they call anybody a racist when they run out of cards.

i'm winning in the polls. they're desperate. they've got lousy candidates. >> i'm joined now by beth fouhy, nbc senior politics editor, noah rothman, and basil smikle, who is a democratic strategist. beth, i'm trying to -- look, a lot of our assumptions about politics are kind of scrambled and up in the air after 2016. if this is what the trump folks are putting out there, that being called a white supremacist will actually help him, you -- can you conceive of a voter who's on the fence who is pushed in his direction by that? does that sound plausible to you? >> it doesn't sound plausible to me. we have a couple of camps that are very hard in their position. we have trump supporters who love the guy. they're not going to budge from him. they might feel a little emboldened like the deplorables of 2016. there is a large group of people who can't stand trump and are rushing to get rid of him. the folks who are left are those who basically perhaps don't like

his character, don't like his behavior. they like his economy. and democrats have to persuade those folks to come their way. i don't see how any of this is going to push those voters one way or the other, and those are the voters it's going to take o push those voters one way or the other and those are the voters it takes for one side or the other to win. >> we're in this i can't remember i don't think there has been a time in modern history where eight candidates for president called the president a white supremacist. >> we haven't had a president who was a white supremacist. >> we had a poll last week, 51% in the quinnipiac poll said the president is a racist. >> right. i do think it is important you have to call it out whenever you see it. in the history of this country 10 of the first 12 presidents were slave owners up to the birther movement started by donald trump going after the first american president. you have to call it out otherwise if you're silent you're acquiescing. having said that, i do think it is appropriate for the candidates to speak on it.

i would say this no matter what. anger only gets you to 49%. democrats and voters generally have to embrace their candidates to, fall in love with them essentially to get to the 51%. we still need to talk to voters about other things. how we'll make their lives better going forward. just the anger and pointing out the anger and frustration with donald trump isn't enough. we still need to embrace our candidate. i hope that they can pivot to that. >> in terms of understanding the politics of this, noah, is beth's framework right, talking about these reluctant trump voters who kind of swung the election in 2016. didn't like him but voted for him anyway. he needs to win them back. does it hurt that cause? >> i think it does. if your theory of the race is you don't need trump vote aerts all, you can elect a new coalition out of low propensity voters this doesn't matter. if you are trying to appeal to

the trump voters who voted for the president and are hearing they supported white nationalism and maybe are culpable for white nationalism in an effort to perform moral persuasion, you're now turning them defensive. you're accusing them of violating precepts that are so foundational, so opposite of anything we accept in society that you're going to turn them off. they are simply not going to respond to this attempt to impose a moral quandary. i think the more sound strategy, kamala harris, joe biden, which is to say this president is far too comfortable with white nationalists, is giving them a lot of sucker. you don't approve of that. i don't approve of that. what are we doing here? that is the kind of moral question i think voters would respond to. >> and here is a constituency in the african community and others who feel the way we do, the party may or may not be engaging them on a regular basis.

we can dig down and bring those folks through the process which is what stacey abrams was saying and she got flack for that. she came close and we can also blame it on voter suppression. having said that there is the strategy of saying we have a constituency here that cares very deeply about this. 4.6 million obama voters from 2012 did not vote in 2016. one-third of them are african-american. if we focus on those with some of this language and some of this emotion behind the president maybe we can actually turn the tide. >> to noah's point and i would agree with you on that, once voters are somehow feeling accused of being racist, white supremacist, that is problematic. we asked elizabeth warren that question today. because she is one of the candidates who has called him a white supremacist. we said to her, what does that say about the people who support him? she blew right by it. she knew it was not a place she wanted to go. i would agree there is a caveat to the strategy i laid out. if trump is able to convince

people that they are being demonized by simply the fact they even responded to him four years ago, that could be something that helps him a lot. >> is there an audience that if you're talking about these reluctant trump voters i take your point. maybe they view this as an indictment, that kind of attack as an indictment on our own character or is there a risk that trump's own behavior especially in the last couple weeks makes them reconsider the charge? not about themselves but about him? >> well, it probably does. it most certainly should. i'm not sure what argument democrats are going to make for themselves in 2020 but that the president is unfit for office dispositionally and in terms of character because they can't as we said argue against the economy unless it takes a nosedive in the next year. they're really going to stay away from that. they can't argue for instability, foreign wars. even corruption in the white house. there are a lot of -- a constellation of scandals. that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have one sentence where you can say this scandal

will up end this white house. what can they say? the president is temperamentally unfit. that argument centers around his language around race, incitement, behavior patterns which are really quite frustrating particularly when you see him in front of a child, orphan child thumbs upping today. that is the sort of thing you can really get a moral argument but you can't indict voters for voting for donald trump in 2016. they'll turn off. >> one of these questions we've been asking about trump, all of these moments and episodes, we talk about how fast they fade. but i do wonder are there some that do linger? i feel charlottesville might have lingered a little bit. a question about this one. we'll see. thank you all for being with us. up next a hero's long journey home. you're watching "hardball." or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith, who met with humana to create a personalized care plan. at humana, we have more ways to care for your health,

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it has been a difficult week in the news. we wanted to end with a story of a military hero finally coming home. on thursday, love field in dallas, came to a near standstill as a plane arrived carrying the remains of air force colonel roy knight. colonel knight was shot down over laos during the vietnam war. his remains why recovered and identified just two months ago. travelers paid respects and workers stood silently in honor of colonel knight. this was the same airport where 52 years ago colonel knight said farewell to his family before heading off to war. his son brian was just 5 years old at the time and 52 years

later brian knight is now a captain with southwest airlines and he was the pilot who flew the plane that completed his father's journey home. that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. chris matthews will be back on monday. have a great night. good evening. i'm donny deutsch. thanks for having me home tonight. there are exactly 451 days until the 2020 presidential election. it has been exactly one week since the senseless, hate driven, trump racist rhetoric fueled massacre in el paso and the mass shooting in dayton. what a sad week it's been. it is a moment in time for democrats to rise up with passion, fury, and bold ideas. nothing will change until we get rid of three cancers. trump, mcconnell, and i believe assault weapons. tonight i'll challenge democrats with new ideas and strategy. time for democrats to toughen up and play for keeps at all costs. i used to use a term when running my company. failure is not an