that is our show. thank you for watching. we'll be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. up next, morgan rat ford. >> i love watching your show. i always get a little bit smarter. >> thank you. have a great show. >> good afternoon to all of you from msnbc world head quarters in new york. it's high noon in the east. 9:00 out west and welcome to weekends with alex whit. alex is off today and i'm morgan radford. new details this hour in the death of jeffrey epstein. but still, more questions than answers. >> this is just more recklessness. what he's doing is dangerous. >> plus outrage on the campaign trail. the president's tweet about jeffrey epstein's death sparks explosive talk from the 2020

contenders. and the ice raids. takes on the timing and optics and now there's new fallout. the battle for iowa. democrats descend on the hawkeye state. it's turning into an amusement park ride for many candidates. the new ups and downs coming up next. we begin with details on the death of jeffrey epstein. the investigation into exactly how the wealthy man died. joining me now julie brown and ken delaney and national security and intelligence reporter. ken, let's start with you. what more are we learning about epstein's final night in. >> morgan, multiple federal law enforcement officials have told nbc news that epstein hanged himself and there's no indication that foul play is suspected. he was housed in a special housing unit where there were bed sheets, a window sill and bed posts.

there were ample opportunities for him to have committed suicide. there is an investigation after the attorney general said he was appalled this could happen in federal custody. the rules called for checks to be made on inmates in that facility every 30 minutes. and what's being investigated now is whether those folks, in fact, happened every 30 minutes or whether he was left alone for longer than that. >> you talk about the checks. something i'm confused on. given the guidelines under which federal prisons operate, how unusual is it, ken, would it have been to take epstein off of a suicide watch just six days after an apparent attempt? >> this is the big question that no one has been able to answer. we know the rules say that he would have had to have been evaluates by a mental health evaluation in order for him to be taken off suicide watch. our sources say it happened. the question is did he fool this person? there's many allegations that he

fooled many people in his life for a long time. was this the last person that he fooled in order to get taken off suicide watch? on suicide watch, he would have been watched every second and experts say there would have been almost no opportunity for him to have taken his own life. >> julie, you had new reporting on this. the manhattan u.s. attorney credited your work with getting the accusers to talk and being helpful in securing that new york indictment. the headline of your piece was "the easy way out". how does this reflect how the accusers feel about his death? >> well, they feel angry, shocked. once again, they feel they've -- epstein manipulated the system as he did all through the whole time this case was being investigated starting in 2006. he managed to manipulate the entire criminal justice system through his incarceration. if he was able to persuade

someone in the jail there to give him a favor, to take him off of suicide watch, i mean, it's really not a surprise to the victims because that's what he's done all these years. >> you said it wasn't a surprise to the victims. given your reporting, was it a surprise to you? >> well, when i say it wasn't a surprise, i mean it's not a surprise looking back on just looking at the fact that somehow he probably got some kind of allowance to get off of suicide watch. that part of it. i think everybody is shocked that he was able to execute it, that he should have probably been watched a little more carefully. at least since his suicide watch was recently lifted, you would think they would have been checking on him a little more closely. >> one of the women that you interviewed actually spoke to one of the sunday shows. let's take a little listen to that. >> i really wanted justice.

i really wanted him to take up for what he did and to be put in jail or prison and have to sit there and think about what it is he exactly did to so many people. >> julie, given what you've learned, do you think the alleged victims will get any form of justice? >> i sense the u.s. attorney jeffrey berman in new york is pretty resolute in his effort to find justice for these victims. and i certainly with all the documents that were released the other day, there's a lot of angles for him to pursue. there is so much information in those documents and we have thousands and thousands of more documents that are probably going to be released. there are so many threads of information and evidence and testimony and witnesses that are contained in those documents that he has a lot to work with there. >> one of the most chilling pieces, ken, that i heard was

when one of the victims said that she was recruited. what's the likelihood that the victims will see the conspirators or co-conspirators held account snbl. >> we don't know for sure, but that seems to be what the u.s. attorney in new york is saying. the investigation will continue and there's a question of conspiracy of whether anyone else is culpable in the crimes. if that's the case, the victims are certainly expecting to see some justice. >> ken, julie, thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate seeing you this afternoon. also new this hour, democratic presidential hopefuls are criticizing president trump for retweeting a conspiracy theory about the death of accused six trafficker jeffrey epstein. a comedian wrote the tweet but offering no evidence for his claim. now that accusation is being amplified to the president's 63 million followers. >> this is just more

recklessness. what he's doing is dangerous. he's giving life to conspiracy theories and whipping people up into anger and worse against different people in this country, and so this is a tired way that the president does. he's been using the clintons as a means for a lot of his false accusations. >> this is another example of our president using this position of public trust to attack his political enemies with unfounded conspiracy theories and also to try to force you and me and all of us to focus on his bizarre behavior instead of the fact that we just lost 22 people in this community, nine people in dayton, ohio. >> those were 2020 presidential candidates senator booker and beto o'roarke. we are now following the president in berkeley heights, new jersey. mike, the white house is also reacting to this. what's the latest word from the

trump administration? >> reporter: well, right. and white house officials are put on the defensive. we have not seen the president over the course of this weekend. he is at his golf course. he calls this a working vacation. we have heard from him. multiple tweets this including the very controversial tweet. the retweet of the unsub tanchuated conspiracy theories somehow -- counselor kellyanne conway as she frequently does on the sunday shows defending the president. she praised the attorney general bill barr for quickly launching that investigation from the inspector general at the department of justice. the fbi also investigating all the questionable activities. all the questionable decisions that were made by federal authorities at that lockup in new york that ken and julie were just talking about. but she was also asked very directly about how she could defend what the president was

doing in terms of the retweet of unsubstantiated allegations smearing both hillary clinton and bill clinton. >> i think the president just wants everything to be investigated, and trying to connect the president to this monster from years ago where they're seen dancing in a video versus people who were actively i suppose flying around with this monster on his island which was known as pedophilia island, perhaps there's a public interest in knowing more about that. this is speculative. it's not for me to go further than the doj is right now. you hear different people asking questions and they want to know who else was involved in epstein's crimes or even just activities, and i guess that will be revealed in time. >> okay. >> reporter: we all know friday there was a massive legal

documents that named names for some people who had flown to the island that kellyanne conway referred to there. bill clinton through his spokesman i think for the record denied he was ever on the island that was owned by epstein. also the president as was referred to by kellyanne conway seen a couple times in two different pieces of video with jeffrey epstein apparently at parties having a good time. the president said he had a falling out a long time ago with jeffrey epstein and they had not communicated in a very long time. >> and mike, it's interesting. when you look at the big picture, you hear kellyanne conway talking about the fact that these are speculative claims and also demeaning the fake news. but retweeting something that was unsubstantiated. thank you for joining us live from new jersey. joining me now, an attorney who represented three epstein accusers ten years ago and one now. they were minors at the time of the alleged acts. spencer, thank you for joining

us this afternoon. you spoke to one of your clients after epstein died. what was her reaction? >> there's a certain amount of shock, obviously, with this happening and such rapid succession with the arrest and obviously his own suicide. so there's that. but in addition to that, there's some relief. obviously on behalf of not only her but other potential victims that could have occurred in the future. she's relieved he won't be able to do it again. she was skeptical the system would do the right thing this time. this is a woman now. she was a very young girl at the time. and she saw a system that ran awry 12 years ago and allowed this guy to get out and continue to perpetrate crime against other victims. she was skeptical that the system would do the right thing this time. there is a certain amount of relief that he will never get out again and never do this to

another victim again. >> you describe this balance between relief and skepttism. while you were advocating for your clients, did you interact with epstein or get to know him at all? >> sadly, i did have to interact with him. i was able to take his deposition, sworn testimony as part of our case. and also private meetings with him to resolve the girls' cases. this is a man that always felt he was the smartest person in the room. whether he was or he wasn't at the time. and he was very vain. he was always vain about his appearance, how others perceived him, which, by the way, makes me kind of skeptical about the fact given his vanity that he would'ven be able to take his own life. he always defended his actions. he always felt as though the girls were volunteering to be with him and wanted to be with him, so, therefore, he was blameless. he was just a very -- i guess the best word is creepy person

to meet, and not someone i wanted to remain in the room with for a long period of time. >> that's interesting. you also kind of had this historical context. take us back 12 years when epstein was basically able to make the sex trafficking charge go away. how did you clients find out and react then? >> there was a huge amount of shock. i learned about it through a source he was pleading guilty in state court. i literally had to quickly pack up, grab a jacket and run to court to see what was going to happen. when i appeared in court that morning the courtroom was packed. maria vilifania was present for the plea on behalf of the federal government. he was pleading guilty in state court. after the plea was entered, the court still and the defense still would not allow us to see the nonprosecution agreement. we had to file documents in court and wait six months before that secret agreement which we

called the sweet heart deal was uncovered and shown to the lawyers on behalf of the victims nature federal judge as recently as march found that the u.s. attorney's office violated the federal crimes victims' rights act by failing to inform the victims at the time of what was going on. >> i want to play for you a bit of jennifer rose's interview with savannah guthrie on the "today show." listen to this. >> i wasn't thinking this is belittling. i was just a lost kid. you know? so i just -- it just seemed okay. i don't know. >> and he had suggested he might help you, this promise hanging over all of that? >> yeah. so i just said this can only be fen official. you know? this is a good thing. just stick it through. >> spencer, you can see how troubled and conflicted and pained these victims were. these alleged victims were also

as young as 14 years old at the time. is there anything now to suggest that they will, in fact, get justice? >> well, the fact that he is now dead, i think is a certain amount of moral justice involved with that. but what i know that at least the victim i recently spoke with that i represent as well as the other girls involved want to see is a full accounting. he was not able to do this alone. the victim you just played, you know, these young girls were brought to the home by other women that he had employed at the time to recruit young women and bring them to the home. those girls have not been brought to justice yet. those girls are now women. in addition to the documents that were just released on friday, there are another group of women that were recruiting these girls to bring to the house and the u.s. government needs to look into those women

and hold them accountable as well. >> spencer, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. it's been a pleasure speaking with you. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up, new fallout from the immigration raids. the head of ice tries to justify separating children from their parents. plus on this second anniversary of the deadly charlottesville protests, new questions about what role the president may have played in the rise of white nationalism. stay tuned. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,

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new today, the first public acknowledgment from the trump administration about the times of the largest ever i.c.e. raid in a single state, mississippi. the raids came four days after a shooter targeted el paso texas. the same day the president visited el paso. here's the homeland security chief. >> given the emotions out country right now, in hindsight do you wish this raid didn't happen this week? >> the timing us was unfortunate. >> the acting border patrol's chief was also pressed on the children separated from their parents in the mississippi raids. this is what i.c.e. did and did not do for the children who were left behind. my colleague reports i.c.e. did not notify child protective services or schools before the raids. but i.c.e. agents did notify schools after the raids started

and released some parents of young children. >> they took extraordinary efforts to make sure that when everyone that was apprehended, they had agents dedicated full-time during this operation that they did nothing but be prepared to reach out to schools, to reach out today care. >> i.c.e. took great pains to make sure there were no child dependent care issues ignored. 45% of the people heired released for humanitarian reasons including child care. >> let's break down the numbers. from the 480 detained initially, 377 are in custody. 271 were released with a court date and 32 were released because of humanitarian reasons. listen to how both immigration chiefs responded when asked why hundreds of workers were prosecuted by so far not one of the employers who hired them has been charged. >> this is a criminal investigation. of the employers who are exploiting an undocumented work

force and skirting our laws. when you do an operation at a work site, you can't ignore the people there without the proper permission of the united states. >> it's a pending investigation. there's a criminal search warrant to go in there and collect more intelligence. >> let's bring back in mike in berkeley heights, new jersey following the president. mike, you heard the sound bites we played. the trump administration also responding to reports that the trump organization is employing undocumented workers. what's their reaction today? >> that's right. and, of course, the reason why we're here is because it is close to the president's luxury golf course where he is spending nine days on what is not billed as a summer vacation, but a working vacation. that is one of the facilities talked about, reported on in a washington post article yet another in a series of the president's business operations. of course, now run by his sons. that document the fact that

undocumented workers are employed at those facilities. and particular, this post article outlined a group that called themselves to the flinstones sent from facility to facility, including the one near the white house in northern virginia where the president frequently goes this weekend and this one in bed minister. the acting head of the cbp, we've heard from him, appeared on the sunday shows. he was asked why, in fact, the president's facilities were not being investigated. >> in my 25 years, i take offense to say anybody is turning a blind eye to someone that is violating the law. >> i don't understand why it is that the president's companies, there's headline after headline about them employing undocumented immigrants, and there's never been a raid. there's never been any sort of law enforcement investigation that we can discern. >> so you really can't say that for sure. because there are investigations going on all the time that

you're unaware of. and we shouldn't be aware of those investigations. >> reporter: and so both kevin and mark morgan went onto say employers in mississippi, new jersey, wherever they may be who employ those workers, there are investigations ongoing. >> thank you, mike. joining me now, congressman green. thank you for joining us this afternoon. right off, i want to get your reaction. what do you think of the administration's defense of these ice raids? >> thank you for having me. i'm pained by this. it's very painful, because to see that baby, i'm told that she was approximately 11 years of age, complaining and beseeching us to release her father was painful to watch and to make the excuse of persons permitting

violations that relate to social security numbers and identifications and to say that yes, there was a parent at home, we can always find reasons to justify these kinds of behaviors, but i don't believe that it's the right thing to do. there ought to be something that would say to the administration, you don't do this on the first day of school. you don't this right after a tragedy such as that which occurred in el paso, texas where a person went there to slaughter latinos. there ought to be some sense of decency within the administration that would cause people to shy away from this kind of activity. now, more specifically, just in the justification. people justified putting the african mother on the auction block and sending her to one plantation and sending her baby to another plantation.

this is not unusual to justify this kind of infringement upon humanity. i think we have to examine our moral standards that this president is destroying and reinstitute them. i think it's time for us to step back and examine what we're doing because the world is watching miss radford. >> the world is watching. i think as you're describing it, it seems like people are triaging the legal and moral issue while we know people are hurting. interestingly, kamala harris had really powerful words while describing the impact of these raids earlier with my colleague chuck todd. let's take a listen. >> this administration has directed dhs to conduct these raids as part of what i believe is this administration's campaign of terror. which is to make the whole populations of people afraid to

go to work. children are afraid to go to school for fear when they come home their parents won't be there. >> campaign of terror. congressman, do you agree with senator harris? >> i absolutely do. i think she is correct. this has been a part of his m.o. of his campaign to do what we can to demeanize victims. this is something he's done successfully because he was elected doing this. my hope is we'll understand that the president is a beneficial bigot. this is a term that i've coined. a beneficial bigot. because he benefits those who will be meeting soon to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to his campaign. he has benefitted the clergy. it's supposed to be the backbone and corner stone of decency by giving them the judges they want.

he has benefitted the rich and the powerful by giving them the tax cut that they want. so he has benefitted them to the extent that they will tolerate his bigotry. when you tolerate bigotry, you perpetuate bigotry. this is a beneficial bigot unlike we have seen before in the highest office to the land since 1868 since andrew johnson was the beneficial bigot of his time. >> i hear you saying the president is a beneficial bigot. he says he is the least racist person you know. but we have to also look at the numbers. in a new poll taken in the days following last weekend's deadly shootings, 47% of voters say that white nationalism is a critical threat to the country. that's 10% higher than what they found back in march. congressman, how critical is this threat of white nationalist terrorism? >> let me add one additional poll. 51 % of the american public

believes the president is a racist. 51%. that's in this country. 51%. voters believe the president is a racist. it is an existential threat to us. it is something that we must deal with. it is one thing to want to defeat the president at the polls. but it's another thing to understand that we have to impeach the philosophy that he's perpetrating upon society. if we impeach the philosophy, we take on a broader, a broader threat to society than just defeating him at the polls. and the way to impeach that philosophy, ma'am, is to impeach this president if he is not defeated in the senate, he will still run as an impeached president and there will be a good many people who won't want to hold fundraisers with him. a good many people who won't want to be in his company because he become persona

nongrat a to many benefitting from his bigotry. >> we have our eyes on the election. these are unprecedented times. >> they are. the mystery surrounding jeffrey epstein, his life and now death. how much will be revealed? i'll ask someone who has written extensively about him next. ivelt -and...that's your basic three-point turn. -[ scoffs ] if you say so. ♪ -i'm sorry? -what teach here isn't telling you is that snapshot rewards safe drivers with discounts on car insurance. -what? ♪ -or maybe he didn't know. ♪ [ chuckles ] i'm done with this class.

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new and mounting questions this hour about how jeffrey epstein once under suicide watch could have died in federal custody. but now there's also mysteries surrounding epstein's finances. bill cohen of "vanity fair" writes the biggest unanswered question remains how he made the nearly $600 million that he and his attorneys listed on his unaudited and unverified financial statement. he adds epstein's so-called financial black book could provide answers. bill joins me now. bill, you actually read this so-called black book. what's in it? >> well, it's not like it's a narrative or anything, but it definitely tells an interesting story. i think. i mean, it's 92 pages of names,

and incredibly detailed contact information. i mean, you give somebody like glen duben, a hedge fund manager or was. sold his hedge fund to jpmorgan a few years ago and now has his own firm. there's line after line after ways to get in touch with this guy. phone numbers in his chauffeur, a driven car. phone numbers in his home in west chester county, new york. it's not like these people weren't known to him. he got lots of information from them. >> but hold on. were there any names in there that were also in those unsealed documents released before epstein's death? >> i mean, i'm not sitting here with it right now. there were no wall street guys mentioned in the unsealed documents except for glen duben mentioned in the unsealed document who were also in the

black book. i mean, i didn't know -- i think bill richardson was in there, and i think george mitchel was also in there. but i'd have to double check that for sure. >> so what did you find most alarming in this book, the prosecutors really may take note of? >> i mean, t literally a road map. it should be used by prosecutors if they're serious about getting to the bottom of this. if they're serious about helping somebody like lisa blooum and her clients get to the bottom of this. they should use that black book as a road map for people to subpoena and documents to ask them to produce. there's a reason they're in that black book. it's not just because it's somebody that jeffrey epstein wanted to know. these are people that jeffrey epstein did know, and had relationships with. so they know a lot about what's going on and they may be breeding a sigh of relief today because jeffrey epstein is dead,

but if the prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys are doing their job and criminal -- and prosecutors are doing their job, they should get after this book, look through it carefully, and start issuing subpoenas. >> bill, stay on that point with me for just a moment. you describe it as a road map. talk about why this is relevant in the context of that investigation. i mean, how can that book really answer questions that are related to epstein's fortune? >> well, in the absence of other information about, for instance, why he had a relationship with leon black or leslie wexner or other wall street financial types, jimmy cane, former head of bear sterns, in that book, absence of emails, documentary evidence, i mean, this is the book. this is his private book about people who he should stay in touch with. so i think this just makes a lot

of sense if i were a prosecutor to be all over that, but i'm not a prosecutor. i could just pretend to play one and suggest what prosecutors should try to do. >> but do we have any sense of how he made his money, how much remains, and frankly, where it is now? >> you know, i think this is all a big cover story. he was a con man. i think i believe personally in my opinion he was a blackmailer. i think he had information on all of these people. he provided, quote, unquote services to these people. him, he had nothing to do with him providing financial services or trading or any of that. i think that's one big cover story. >> lots more to find out and a lot more questions remain. bill cohen, thank you for joining us this afternoon. >> thank you, morgan. next up the immigration raids. a trump campaign ploy to rally his base, or is that just being cynical? our political panel will weigh in. l will weigh in help you quit slow turkey.

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new today. trump administration officials speaking out in the aftermath of wednesday's massive i.c.e. raids in mississippi. they are believed to be the largest sweep ever in a single state. the crackdown leaving families and children stunned and in panic with few immediate answers. one emotional child here begging for her father's return. >> my dad. my dad didn't do nothing.

he's not a criminal. >> she's saying he is not a criminal. joining me now, betsy woodruff, curt bardella, susan delpersio, and chris lou. chris, let's start with you. that clip of that little girl just isn't easy to watch. and yet, acting commissioner of customs and border protection, mark morgan defended the raids and their impact in a new interview. take a listen to this. >> it's not just a victimless crime that's going on here. first of all, they are here illegally. and then a lot of times there's additional fraud that goes with them for them to try the get the jobs in the companies. i understand the girl is upset. i get that. but her father committed a crime.

also, that girl, her mother was home and she was reyunited with her mother within a few hours that night. >> fraudulent, criminals. what's your reaction, chris? >> that shows the heartless attitude this administration has taken toward this issue. look, there is the rhetoric and then there's the reality. the rhetoric is a president who uses words like invasion and killers and alien 500 times to describe undocumented immigrants. in places all around the country, reality, industries could not survive without undocumented workers. these are law-abiding people contributing to the communities. there are local businesses, stores, restaurants that rely on them as consumers. and so this is the dynamic that we have in the country right now. and the contradiction you have is that you've got all these people being rounded up, and then you have no employers who ever pay the price for profiting off of this cheap labor. "the washington post" did an analysis.

over the past year not a single employer has been prosecuted by federal officials for hiring undocumented immigrants. none of that should be a surprise given the president's own record of hiring undocumented immigrants over the past couple decades. >> betsy, i want to double up on being chris said. the i.c.e. raids raise the question of why employers were targeted. "the washington post" article looked at how the trump organization has relied on immigrants who do not have legal status. here's how that discussion with mark morgan played out earlier. take a listen. >> there have been syria raids on any of the companies despite headline after headline. it seems like you're turning a blind eye to this crime being committed by the president's own companies. >> so look, i've been in law enforcement for over 25 years. first of all, again, i'm the commissioner of cbp. it's not my responsibility. >> you were head of i.c.e. until recently. >> that is correct. i can tell you in my 25 years, i

take offense to saying anyone is turning a blind eye to anyone breaking the law. >> the reality is there are countless employers who hire and pay undocumented workers. right now for all practical purposes the federal government doesn't seem to care about it. this is unusual, because the steven miller camp of thinking on the immigration situation very much would call for crackdowns on employers as well as on employees. for the immigration hawks in the trump administration, going after those employers is a priority. but in practice, we see it's not happening. this is actually perhaps the one area where those hawks are not getting their way. the fact that there's -- for all practical purposes, amnesty for people who unploy undocumented -- employ the undocumented immigrants.

>> i want to go back to the video of the young girl begging for her father's release saying he's not a criminal. does the trump administration see an imagine in creating this type of turmoil and creating conditions where we see these types of painful images? is that part of their deterrent effort? >> i don't know there's a strategy behind much of what the trump administration does, specifically the president. but i think he actually does like those videos. i think he wanted to show the caravan and enjoying seeing the photos of the other networks showed to support his claim that they were coming up in droves and that whole narrative. this is something where if it looks like the trump administration is cracking down on people who are in this country illegally, that's his base. that's what he's showing. the timing, though, is just phenomenal. i don't know how they could continue with this and have those pictures following two mass shootings. within a week.

it's just horrible. but i think we can't let go of the points brought up earlier. this president uses undocumented workers. no one is going after him. it's been proven in the press. we know that. and he doesn't go after businesses because he puts business before everybody else. because he's very transactional. and businesses, i think are going to push back on these raids. they need workers. and most of the undocumented workers, they wish they had more. so there's behind the scenes and what's going on, and then there's the images that i think the president has no problem with. >> i want to go back to something you said just a moment ago. you talked about the timing. curt, those raids were just days after the tragic shooting in el paso. the shooter there apparently saying he targeted mexicans. democrats today are raising the alarm about the president's rhetoric. let's take a look. >> i think he creates a climate where we are seeing significant

increase in hate crimes in this country. hate crimes against muslims, against mexicans, against jews. >> when you look at this kid in el paso, he was saying similar things that president trump has said about the invasion and all of this. >> the problem we have is in the white house is not somebody who is stepping up and saying we're going to deal with this but the resourceless energy. we have somebody contributing to dark forces in our nation through his own rhetoric. >> the dark forces that booker just mentioned, curt, is it fair to put the blame on the shoulders of the president? how responsible is he? >> oh, the president is 100% responsible. this is the reality. this is a president who time and again uses his platform, his megaphone, the biggest megaphone in the world to sew divisiveness and target people who are not white and characterize them as

dirty, as from places that are s-holes. as people who are rapists or criminals or an invasion. we see a pattern of behavior. it's not an isolated incident. it's interesting in the wake of the mass of these mass shootings where public opinion is so clearly for common sense gun reform, an contrary where the republican party and the president are on opposite side, we see him go back to we're going to do an immigration thing now. we're going to go into immigration enforcement. they don't have an answer for why they haven't done anything about gun reform. he has to go back to the fox news well. programming really dedicating these images. really made for the fox news audience. the only people he truly cares about any way. i don't think it's an incident this happened in the wake of the shooting and the wake of all of these questions about whether the republican party will do something. the answer is noing they're not going to do anything. they're going to stay away on their august recess and trump is

trying to change the conversation and channel to talk about immigration. >> beyond just republicans, what about the democrats? what can the democrats do? what should they be doing to combat the president's rhetoric without giving the president more fuel for division. >> i think thit's what they doi now. calling the president a white issue pr supremacists and they are trying to show a different vision of how they would govern the country. one that is understanding our country's diversity is its strength. pushing for background checks supported by 90% of americans and continuing to put the pressure. you have mitch mcconnell considering opening something is ground breaking considering where he's been over his career. >> all right. thank you all for being here this amp. really appreciate your insight. now to the 2020 con ternten

at the iowa state fire. the spotlight is on a potential republican challenger to president trump. vaughn, what's the latest there from the soap box? >> reporter: good morning. we're live with msnbc right now. my question is where donald trump's approval rating within the republican party, 90% or more, what role does your version of republican have in this party today? >> i'm going to tell the truth. that way i don't have to remember what i said. we'll see whether people agree with it. i think the current situation is artificial. people may be equating stock market with donald trump. we'll see. i think he has a lot to answer for. >> there will be an iowa caucus here. what does your campaign look like? >> it looks like doing what you god to do to be competitive in iowa. i'm also spending a lot of time

in new hampshire. >> there's a lot of people saying donald trump has been fairly uncalled a racist. >> who, trump? >> they feel like that's reflective on them. what would you tell those voters that feel like they are being targeted when donald trump is called a racist? >> he's the most obvious racist in a public figure i've seen. >> thank you. appreciate it. that was governor bill wells. he's the one gop challenger in this race. he spoke here at the soap box. right now if you look at approval ratings of president trump within the republican party they are sky high. bill wells chances would appear to be quite low. he's the one challenger in this race. he ran on the libertarian ditict as the vice presidential candidate in 2016. one voter told me he voted for

gary johnson and bill wells after the race at wikileaks. he regrets the vote now. he says he plans to go caucus for bill well. he said understanding the real reality that won't happen. also told reporters that to be very clear, he will not run as a third party candidate again. he will not vote for donald trump. >> it's still too early to tell now. look at where we were this time back in 2016. thank you so much. stay with us here. there's new information in the jeffrey epstein case. we'll be right back. y epstein ce we'll be right back. ymptoms including nasal congestion, ymptoms which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase.

new questions. what we're learning this hour about the death of jeffrey epstein inside a manhattan jail. investigators zero in on the employers of undocumented immigrants while 2020 democrats criticize the timing and the strategy. >> if this administration has directed dhs to conduct these raids as part of what i believe is this administration's campaign of terror. battle for the hawk eye

state. how the 2020 candidates are racing to leave their mark on iowa and whose managed to collect bad press at the state fair. good afternoon from msnbc word headquarters here in new york. welcome to weekend's with alex witt. i'm morgan radford. we begin with details on the death of jeffrey epstein. the autopsy results are expected to come in this afternoon. epstein was found unresponsive yesterday morning in his cell at manhatt manhattan's metropolitan correctional center. a lawyer for jennifer rose just released this statement. this week we intend to pursue justice for our client, jennifer araoz and hold accountable those who enabled his criminal activity. regardless of his untimely death, our case will move forward. jennifer deserves her day in

court. what's the latest on the investigation into epstein's death. are we any closer to understanding what happened in those final hours? >> the autopsy report will get us a little closer by generally the medical examiner will make a ruling on the cause and manner of death. if you see a suicide, i would without suggest there's some evidence to support that. we're hearing from all of our lawyer enforcement sources that epstein hanged himself. this is a suspected suicide and no indication of foul play. what's being investigated at this hour is whether all the procedures were followed in that special housing unit where epstein was living. under the rules, he was supposed to be checked every 30 minutes by guard. right now the questions whether that actually happened. there was, as we understand it, ample opportunity for him to have committed suicide in that un unit. there was a window sill. there was articles of clothing and bed sheets. we'll have to see what the

medical examiner rules today. >> he had the materials but we have been reporting that epstein had been taken off suicide watch just six days after an apparent attempt. how unusual is that? why would he have been taken off of suicide watch in the first place place? >> experts are really puzzled by this. this is what the investigations will hone in. attorney general barr said he was appalled this happened in federal custody. there was an apparent suicide attempt. he was on suicide watch and nbc learned he was taken off. the rules for that suggest he would have been examined by the facility psychologist and had a mental health evaluation before he would have been taken off. there's many questions about whwhy that was done. on suicide watch he would have been monitored closely. he would have had no opportunity the take his own life. as it happens, he did take his own life and victims are left

asking many questions. >> what are we missing? what are some of those outstanding questions we should be asking. i'm thinking about how much money he was worth? where does the money go? >> there's been a lot of reporting as he might motte hno been as rich as he portrayed himself to be. even leaving aside these horrible crimes of which he's accused. the u.s. attorney in new york is saying the investigations will continue. another question is whether there was anyone else culpable in these crimes. the investigation into that aspect will continue as well. >> all right. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. thank you for your reporting. also, democratic presidential hopefuls are slamming president trump for retweeting a conspiracy theory about the death of accused sex

trafficker jeffrey epstein. a commentator wrote the tweet but he offered no evidence for his claim and now that accusation is being amplified and tweeted out to the president's $63 million followers. >> this is just more recklessness. what he's doing is dangerous. he's giving life to not just conspiracy theories but really whipping people up into anger and worse against different people in this country. this is a tired way that the president does. he's been using the clinton's as a means for a lot of his false accusations. >> this is another example of our president using this position of public trust to attack his political enemies with unfounded conspiracy theories and also to try to force you and me and all of us to focus on his bizarre behavior instead of the fact we lost 22 people in this community, nine

people in dayton, ohio. >> joining me now to break it all down, journalist laura bass and jeff mason. we just heard from 2020 democrats. this is how counselor to the president, kellyanne conway defended the president's retweet of that conspiracy theory. take a listen. >> i think the president wants everything to be investigated and trying to connect the president to this monster from years ago where they were seen dance inningg in a video and ot flying around with him. perhaps there's a public interest in knowing more about that. this is all speculative and it's not for me to go further than where the doj and fbi are now. you do hear different people asking questions and they want to know who else was involved in epstein's crimes or even just

activities and i guess that will be revealed in time. >> jeff, what does conway's defense, some may call it spin, say to you? >> reporter: well, all white houses are good at spin and certainly this one is no exception. kellyanne will often come out and defend what the president has said or done. in this case it's important to remember for context the president has a long history of engaging in conspiracy theories. he was a long time proponent. one of the leaders of the false suggestions that barack obama was not born in the united states. the birtherism conspiracy theory. he has done these types of things or retweeted or said these types of things before without evidence and he also is willing to use the platform that he has as president of the yiet a -- united states and the millions of followers he has on

twitter. not only goto get his message o. kellyan kellyanne's defense is the side the white house is projecting. the other side and the critics are suggesting the president is just engaging in conspiracy theories that have no basis and have no truthful factual background to them. the headline says the easy way out. that's in reference to epstein's victims demanding justice. laura when the president is retweeting these conspiracy theories, does that undercut these women's search for just e justice? >> yes, of course. this is a really serious, disgusting case of a really well connected billionaire. he was not just connected to donald trump, not just connected to bill clinton, prince andrew. he had a framed picture of the

crown prince. he was extremely well connected all over the world. the most high profile defendant sitting in jail and he was allowed to die. these women are not going to get the justice that they deserve because of that. they were sex trafficked when they were 14, 15. donald trump not taking this seriously, not listening to the victims, not caring about the victims only caring about himself and trying to use projection to try to point the finger at clinton because he's afraid it will be pointed at himself. we're living in loony toon world right now. this is insane behavior on the part of the president of the united states. >> thank you so much but stand by. we want to keep you an for later in the show. go now to the first public acknowledge from the trump administration about timing of the largest ever i.c.e. raid in a single state. that's in mississippi. those raids came just four days after a shooter targeted latinos

in el paso, texas killing 22 people. it also happened the same day that the president visited el paso. here's the acting homeland security chief. >> given the emotions of the country right now, in hindsight, do you wish the raid didn't happen? >> the timing was unfortunate. >> the acting border patrol chief was pressed on the children separated from their parents in the mississippi raids and this is what i.c.e. did and did not do. this is what they did and didn't do for the children left behind. she reports i.c.e. did not notify child protective services or schools before the raid. they did notify schools after the raids started and released some parents of the young children. >> they took extraordinary efforts to make sure that when ever one was apprehended, they had agents dedicated during this

operation but they did nothing but be prepared to reach out to schools, reach out to day care. >> i.c.e. took great pains to make sure there was no child dependent care issues that were ignored. 45% of the people arrested released for humanitarian reasons including child care. >> acting secretary mark morgan reacting to video of a little girl be siegie i besieging the administration to release her fall. >> they are here illegally and there's fraud that goes with this for them the try to get the jobs. i understand the girl is upset and i get that. her father committed a crime. just so the american people know, also, that girl, her mother was home and she was reunited with her mother within a few hours that night. >> back with me laura and jeff. we just heard from the cbp acting chief dismissing this emotional plea from the girl

separated with her father. what does that reaction from mark morgan tell you about the trump administration's strategy here? >> morgan, what i think is really interesting is in what he said is he admitted there were other kinds of fraud that allowed these hirings to take place. specifically, it's the owners of these companies of these plants that are giving the undocumented immigrants fake social security unusuals to work for them. they are harassing them. there's wage theft going on and as soon as these immigrants try to sue for their own rights, they get rounded up and deported. it's been reported in the past couple of weeks that some of donald trump's properties rely on undocumented labor. what needs to happen is if we're going to punish the people doing this labor, you have to look at the people who are employing them. who are abusing them. it can't be a one sided fight here. >> those employers have not been

charged. jeff, i want to rewind the tape for a moment because moments ago i asked congressman al green what he made of the administration's defense of those mississippi raids. here is what he told me. >> i'm pained by this. it's very painful. there ought to be something that will say to the administration, you don't do this on the first day of school. you don't do this right after a tragedy such as that which occurred in el paso, texas where a person went there to slaughter latinos. there ought to be some sense of decency within the administration that would cause people to shy away from this kind of activitactivity. >> jeff, you heard the ko congressman talk about decency but what about timing. what is the trump administration's strategy when it comes to this timing? >> reporter: it's a good question. officials are saying that this raid would have been planned a

long time in advance and not something that was strategic in terms of timing. i think it was interesting the quote you played earlier where the general man said the timing ended up being unfortunate. unfortunate is one way of looking at it. certainly if you were families affected by these raids. i'm sure that you would come up with an even stronger word. it does put into focus the fact that at least the president's critics believe he is going after these people not only for reasons of legality but targeting a segment of the population sort of directed his anger at and the anger of many of his supporters at since becoming president and since long before that. >> i want to go back to something that laura referenced earlier. you referenced the new reporting from the washington post that says since january they interviewed 43 immigrants without legal status who were employed at trump property.

laura, is there any chance that this adds pressure on trump organizations to really be held accountable for their hiring practices? >> they should. if they will round up on the first day of school and take away a bunch of children's parents as a political act, as red meat for their base then they have to look at themselves and say, we have been relying on these people for years. he has not put one brick in that wall. it's embarrassing. he's hurting all of these people in order to say i did something. i'm roundi ining up brown peopld sending them away. it's disgusting. it's a human rights violation. >> it has a lot of people concerned. in the wake of last week's shootings, sounds like president trump might want to do something about guns but can americans

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> developing this hour, members of congress could be getting closer to revisiting gun legislation. white house counselor kellyanne conway saying early yes he wahe

see reform getting done. >> the president has been talking to republicans and democrats on the matter of background checks and being able to have meaningful measurable reforms that don't confiscate law-abiding citizens, firearms without due process but keep the firearms from people who have a propensity towards violence. >> joining me now, ohio representative joyce beratty. we have seen this kind of momentum before where congress appears to be on the verge of coming together to pass meaningful reform but then it just fades away. do you get a sense afterhearing from the white house this time things could be different? >> you never know what to think from this president but first let me just say my heart and my thoughts go out to all of the families and to friends and communities in dayton, ohio and

el paso, texas as well. this is a time now that we all need to come together. when you think of what the american citizens want, more than 90% of them want us to make sure we have background checks. when you look at what's happened this time with the polls that were taken, even 50% of some republicans are saying they would support actions. it's time for us to be intentional and this has to be urgent. we can't do business as usual. we can't woucount on this presit but i'm going to say members of congress and those in the state legislature, we need to come together and put a stop to this. i'm so proud that the democrats, one of the first things we did when we took back the majority just in full control about seven or eight months ago. hr-8 to pass the background check. we picked up some republicans.

it was a bipartisan bill. we need to do more and it can't stop with background checks. >> you say you need to do more. the president's rhetoric has been front and center in the wake of the shootings in both dayton and in el paso. let's take a listen to what your colleague said just yesterday. >> it's inarguable the president is a white supremacists. this is not rhetoric he's in engaging in of a short term nature. >> congresswoman, do you feel the president is responsible? >> absolutely. i agree 100% with my colleague and good friend denny. this goes far beyond him not being the commander in chief but the divider in chief. question go back to housing and what he did.

we can look at all of the dispairing and discriminatory things he said against women. going to puerto rico and throwing people paper towels. when we think about what he said to my four colleagues, telling them to go back home. i think he does this to try to divert us from the other issues that are at hand. we are very willing to confront this president because he is not a commander in chief. yes, i think he's a white supremaci supremacist. yes i think it's a racist and he should not be our president of these united states. when we think about the families, he has nerve enough to go to dayton, ohio and then go to texas and talk about the crowds and compare his numbers with beto o'rourke when we were thinking about people who had lost their lives to a senseless gun violent domestic terrorism

act. that's not someone i'd call a president and certainly not someone i will consider my president. >> just a moment ago you used the word confrontation. does that involve impeachment. you're one of 119 democrats who support opening an inquiry. what do you think is driving the increase for people willing to join you and how many more of your colleagues do you expect? >> i remember there were only 30 and now we're up to over 100. i think each day we will gain more members of congress. when we come back after being off and in our districts because enough is enough. i'd tell the president to grow up and we're not afraid of him because we're fighting for the people. those are real lives, children

and families that are being destroyed and he's talking about he may consider background checks. we don't need to have high powered ammunition. we don't need to have ar-15s and automatic weapons in responsible people's hands. if you're hunting or want it for your open protection those are not the guns that people need to have. >> i want to thank you and my condolences to your con constituents. tomorrow will mark two years since protests in charlottesville. the u.s. must do more to fight domestic terrorism. he's an msnbc senior foreign affairs analyst.

what is the u.s. getting wrong in the fight against domestic terrorism? >> well, the point we try to make is when it came to isis we used unique leadership ability of the united states. we rallied the world to share information, to work with the tech sector here in silicon valley and get the propaganda off the internet. it's been a major success. youtube has worked at this . facebook has worked at this. the fbi is telling us is the most significant threat in terms of terrorism to american citizens. american citizens are dying in acts of terrorism and most are dying at the acts of white nationalist white ring terrorism. we're doing very little. the world came together after the christ church. all signed on and the united

states of america refused to sign on. we have see this for what it is. you have to look closely and take seriously what the terrorists are saying. it's not a joke. when the manifestos come out they share the same points. this is a global ideological movement. we need to treat it as much. we should give this equal prioritization. we should not take our foot off the pedal at all. we have to be clear about the increasing threat. >> is this also a question of resources. do we need more resources in this fight and should congress be doing more about it? >> i think there's a role for congress. state and local governments. when it comes to these sorts of

things, it comes to priorit prioritizati prioritization. we built task forces throughout the government. the try to connect dots and help ourselves. that does not seem to be happening here with this increasing threat. it's in plain sight. it's not only the terrible atrocities in the victims at the hands of these domestic terrorists but it's the fbi that every time they testify for congress they say the increasing threat is from these domestic networks and they don't have the laws to keep up with it. there's a role for congress. there's definitely a role for the white house and my enthusiasm for this is very much restrained. i don't see the white house doing all that much. we need to be part of an international coalition to combat extremism. people can be radicalized online from a matter of months. it can be a very short period. with access to very high

velocity semiautomatic weapons the american people face a risk. it's something we know,000 handle. that's the point we have tried to make. >> you worked with president trump. how easy or difficult is it to get him to really pay attention to this issue? do you detect a reluctance to run an objective anl alysis of this tlehreat assessment. >> the policy making process is just kind of dead. you don't have a real strategic process that's based upon facts and data. look at trendage sis. that's how you make sound policies to protect the country. that's just not happening. it's very reaction from event to event. i think after these terrible massacres last week there's now national attention but the national attention can move onto

something else very quickly. it's incumbent upon congress, governors and police chiefs. there's no reason to have this type of weaponary in the hands of civilians. that's something policy makers have to take seriously. in the administration there's not a coherent policy making process. attention has to be kept on this. count on governors, local leaders and every day citizens. we really have to make sure this remains a focus of our country. >> now it's time for national action. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. my next guest calls jeffrey epstein's death a final escape but from what may be more than we know right now. that's coming up next. stay with us. that's cinomg up next. stay with us

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we're following new developments this hour surrounding jeffrey epstein's death. nbc news has learned that autopsy results are expected to come in some time this

afternoon. epstein was found unresponsive in his cell. he was later pronounced dead from an apparent suicide. joining me now, mark fisher, senior editor at the washington post and co-author of the book "trump revealed." your latest headline reads final evasion. for 30 years prosecutors and victims tried to hold jeffrey epstein to account. at every turn he slipped away. how did he manage to slip away for so long? >> it's great question. what happened is over the course of three decades he developed a powerful networks of rich friends and was able to hire because of the money he had, and the friends that he had, some of the most powerful and best lawyers in the country. these two forces, the people who supported him and protected him, defended him came together both when he was in trouble for financial and when he was under

accusation for the sexual abu s abuses. again and again we find from the 1980s until his death he was able to skate away from turoubl, for taking responsibility for his acts by having the support network and using it in various ways. he was able to use, for example, the threat of having videos of some of the people who had visited him out on his island against those who against those visitors should they want to speak out against him. he used his network of lawyers to put pressure on some of the girls who had been forced to provide sexual favors to him. >> you talk about this network of powerful, fancy friends but talk about this image that epstein built for himself. he was described as someone who is wealthy and influential. how much of that is true? >> he had properties around the

united states and the caribbean. he had a lot of money. a lot was gained through an initial con, a scam he took part in the '80s and '90s. a ponzi scheme where they took millions of dollars from elderly people. there was this sort of initial financial scheme he was involved in. whether he was a billionaire as he sometimes made people believe is not clear. he said in some court records he was worth $559 million. there are people who say he was much more than that and some way he was worth mump lech less tha that. investigators will have to figure out what he was worth and where the money is hidden. >> what was your reaction when you heard about his death and were people in his orbit surprised following this was news of a death by an apparent suicide? >> it was not a lot of surprise.

it was sort of the shock that comes from the death of someone. the method and idea he would kill himself in prison was something that did not come as a shock. there had been this earlier incident that appeared to be a matter of self-harm and there was a period in which he was on suicide watch. this could not have come as a terrible surprise. his lawyers told people he was in much better spirits in recent days and so it did come as something of a shock to them this would happen at this point. >> all right. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. we appreciate your time. coming up next, why president trump is losing support from the fastest growing group of voters and which democratic candidate they are flocking to. stay with us. didate they are flocki tngo. stay with us your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain

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what he's doing is dangerous. he's giving life not just to conspiracy theories but really whipping people up into anger and worse against different people in this country. >> this is another example of our president using this position of public trust to attack his political enemies with unfounded conspiracy theories. >> that was democratic presidential candidate cory booker as well as beto o'rourke talking about president trump retweeting a conspiracy thieory about jeffrey epstein's death.

let's start with you first. what was your reaction the seeing the president's retweet? >> it's so hard to really understand what's in his head. sometimes he weighs in on things that you can't imagine the president of the united states weighing in on jeffrey epstein being one of them. i also keep thinking if he was the ceo of a fortunate 500 company, he would have been fired for so many things that he's done a long time ago. most importantly, and most recently he would have been fired over these tweets. peddling conspiracy ri the theo from the white house as the president and it's very troubling to see this. i'm not surprised to see the president weighing in on something that we don't have the

answers to. >> the reality is we are talking about the circumstances around someone's death. sgr wh >> what did you think? >> i felt it was irresponsibility. he retweeted someone that was a comedian. it's somebody who has thousands of followers and i think it puts out the wrong message. you had on twitter clinton body count and trump body count going crazy. going viral. i felt it was unnecessary. we don't know what happened. we don't have the facts. we know this afternoon the autopsy will come out. i think we just need to take a step back and wait and see what it is that they come up with. >> i think that's what we're all doing. even as reporters we're trying to wait and see what those autopsy reports reveal this afternoon.

>> the president wants everything to be investigated as your reporter just revealed just the day before. there are some unsealed information implicating some people high up. they want to know who else was involved in epstein's crimes or even just activities. that will are revealed in time. >> revealed in time. what do you make of that defense? >> just as there is no floor to the president's inelegance and inappropriateness, there's no floor to kellyanne's the lengths to which they will follow him into the depths to defend this silliness. i think it's funny that the president would retweet these conspiracy theories and kellyanne would support that because very reasonable theories suggest that the president, if not involved, knew about jeffrey

epstein's activities and continue to maintain his friendship with him. i would just like to say, i think it's reasonable and interesting that a thinking mind would look into some conspiracy theories here. it becomes a matter of responsibility how far along you want to push those but all of us in our private deliberations have thought what is going on. sometimes it's worth stating the obvious. it just, rich people, billionaires who have lived lives of privileges and accused of serious crimes and will never see the light of day again, they kill themselves in jail every day. the conspiracy theories are not unreasonable. it's unreasonable to say hillary clinton did this but sometimes you got to state the obvious. folks who will be in jail for life, kill themselves. >> i think it's the question are you using that platform to share those theories. i wa . >> right. the wall street journal is out with a report on senior voters. it says some voters who cast ballots for mr. trump in 2016

are put up by his brash tweets and lashing out at lawmakers who criticized him or poopposed his actions. seniors are the fastest growing block. are they underestimating the risks associated with his tweets and rhetoric and those lashing out moments at opponents. >> it's definitely a generational difference in so many ways. the fact you just mentioned twitter. i know my grandparents in their mid-80s are on facebook but neither are on twitter. they are probably way ahead of game of many 80 and 90-year-olds. it is not going to be a surprise that he's going to lose some of those votes because of that rhetoric. you know we do have a lot of millennials and a lot of people in their 40s and 30s. it's a totally different day and

age with the way we approach each other, with the way we talk to one another. i think that's why somebody like joe biden who maybe a bit more calm in his demeanor might do so well or like a andrew yang who might do good in getting some of those soft republicans over to their side. >> one of the gentleman quoted in that article, the 65-year-old truck driver said right now i'm a biden man but the only reason i am is because according to al polls he could beat trump. that was by david. do you think the democrats are looking closely at the seniors vote or as closely as they ought to be? >> absolutely. democrats know the two most reliable voting blocks are seniors and african-americans, african-american women because if they come out, if they say they will vote, they will come out and vote. they are reliable voters.

when it comes to somebody like joe biden and his electability, that's is the situation he's in now that his campaign is in right now. the majority of voters are saying we think joe biden is the most electable president, presidential nominee against donald trump. however, they could change. we have nine more debates coming up and people may see there is somebody else who emerges who can take on donald trump. we will see but right now those numbers are on joe biden's side. his campaign is aware of that and feel they are in a good place because of his position. >> you say numbers are on joe biden's side but i have to ask you briefly before we go especially given biden's comments within the last week. we talked a lot about the necessity of the african-american vote especially for someone who wants to take the democratic nomination. do you think that african-american voters,

especially those opener votelde do you think they will stick with him? >> african-americans are americans. the first thing most americans want regardless of race is a return to normalcy. joe biden represents a return to normalcy. he represents a name that people know and to some degree a name people trust. yes cory booker and kamala harris are qualified but they are not well known. nine debates remaining and a lot of time remaining until iowa, there's a substantial amount of time for things to flip. if biden continues down this path of slowly declining, what we may see is folks looking to find a moderate who can still congeal to african-americans and the women's vote and shift some of that support behind them if we continue to see what potentially might look like biden slowing down a bit. >> all right. some of my favorites. thanks so much for joining us. how the trump administration

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new today, the trump administration now defending this week's massive i.c.e raids in mississippi. children left stun affidavit what's believed to be the largest sweep in a single state thachlt happened in mississippi. one emotional choild there begging for her father's return. >> bring my dad, please. my dad -- >> joining me now, nancy santiago, vice president of hispanics and philanthropy. always a pleasure to speak with you. let's talk about something kamala harris said earlier today. calling it a campaign of terror. do you agree? >> i do. i think that what we're looking at is a very intentional inci incitement of people's fears and hates and a terrorizing of an

entire community. >> let's talk about that for a minute. because what about the impact of these raids in the latino community? are you seeing this fear firsthand? >> oh, absolutely. we have entire communities where people are afraid to come out of their homes. understand that we are in a moment for documented or undocumented immigrants, it's a scary time. we have not been able to be able to get other folks to understand the level of fear that exists in our community and we've been warning people about the dangerous rhetoric being uand sure enough, el paso happens. so as we try to explain to people that no, the president may want have pulled the trigger himself, but just like osama bin laden did not fly the planes into new york himself, he used his words and actions to radicalize others to do that damage. that's what we're looking at now. >> so what is is message you would u have for the latino

community, especially talking about combatting this rhetoric? because assuming this rhetoric doesn't stop, it may not stop from the white house. it may not stop from the people listening and if it doesn't, what can la thety knows do to combat this? >> i think the most important things that be doing is organizing for the next election. that's by far the most. the oh thing we should and can be doing is speaking to congress. as often as we can. i think that the one thing he's managed to do with this campaign of terror is to unify a community. our community went from being in the shadows to now being targets. we know how there's safety in numbers. this is the moment for all of us to talk twoun another. to share our concerns with each other, but also to make sure that we're staying engage and we are protecting each other. we have advocates in certain states like california that are seen as heroes for helping

migrant families and immigrants. families in texas, considered enemies and so i think it's really important for each of us to take care of one another, the stay connected, engage with own wen another and we're using social immediamedia very well t as a community to make sure we're alerting each other to things happening in our community and making each other aware of our right and protections under the law. >> social media is a place where pe people are sharing resources as well as information for communities who need it. thanks so much for being with us today. coming up, the taers of a 2020 candidate and a young girl. the emotional pull of an issue that's been divided america. stay tuned. issue that's been divided america. stay tuned you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase.

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that's it for me this afternoon. thank you so much for joining us and now, i toss it to my colleague. >> great to see you in miami. at the convention. have a wonderful sunday afternoon. >> thank you. >> and good afternoon, everybody. msnbc headquarters in new york city. a b darkry. what happened to jeffrey epstein? the autopsy rumts are expected any minute this as conspiracy theorys about epstein and his staff are being traded by many on social media, include iing t president. >> what he's doing is dangerous. he's giving life to not just conspiracy theorys, but