>> you can check out more of those kinds of behind the scenes video at our instagram at the beat with the whole doris da brat discussion. check it out. that does it for us. back at 6:00 p.m. tomorrow. don't go anywhere, "hardball" starts right now. death in a prison cell. this is "hardball." n cell this is "hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. we're learning about the apparent suicide of jeffrey epstein found unresponsive in his cell early saturday morning and was pronounced dead shortly afterwards. epstein was being held in a special housing unit in lower manhattan. epstein who was believed to have tried to commit suicide three weeks earlier was supposed to be monitored by guards every 30 minutes. that didn't happen.

an administration official familiar with the facts tells nbc that a number of checks of jeffrey epstein's cell, additionally, that official tells nbc's that epstein's cell mate was released friday and not replaced, according to administration officials was a violation of protocol. you're supposed to have a cell mate. the attorney general of the united states bill barr, what's his last name, bill barr, not bill maher, of course, said he was appalled by the news. >> i was appalled and indeed, the whole department was, and frankly, angry to learn of the mcc's failure to adequately secure this prisoner. we will get to the bottom of what happened and there will be accountability. but let me assure you that this case will continue on against

anyone who was complicit with epstein. any coconspirators should not rest easy. the victims deserve justice, and they will get it. >> epstein was taken off suicide watch, and it's unclear why he was. a person familiar with the case tells nbc news that epstein's lawyers visited him at the facility on friday and said they found him mentally and emotionally stable. they said. nbc reached out to his lawyers, by the way, for comment but they have not responded to us. the fbi and the department of justice, office of the inspector general are investigating the circumstances. however, amid the confusion of epstein's apparent suicide, a slew of conspiracy theories emerged online, offering wild speculation for what happened. one of the most outrageous and clearly unsubstantiated was re-tweeted by the president of the united states, of course, and suggested former bill clinton was connected to the death of epstein. in the last hour, the house

judiciary committee belongs to a bipartisan investigation in the circumstance of epstein's death and demanded answers by the bureau of prisons. "washington post" reporter, andrea berg a former federal prosecutor with the southern district of new york. thank you so much. let me go to mr. develin. what do you make of this whole case? what is your suspicions about why there was no cell mate assigned there? why they weren't checking on him every 30 minutes, what's the whole deal here about a guy who had tried to commit suicide, apparently a couple of weeks ago, why was he not being watched. >> a couple of things, one we're told, as far as taking him off suicide watch, that was something he and his lawyers requested, he didn't want to be on suicide watch. that's frankly not unusual for prisoners because suicide watch is not a pleasant experience. you literally have someone watching you all the time. that's why he came off the suicide watch. that's going to be investigated

heavily because obviously there will be a lot of scrutiny of that decision. the other piece is that that jail, parts of that jail often screw up and often don't cross every t and dot every i. it seems like once he got back to his cell, off suicide watch, two things were missed that were important to his safety. one was the checks on him every half hour, that didn't happen for a good stretch of time, and two, that he didn't have someone else in the cell with him to alert authorities when something happened because that is what happened in the last incident as best we can tell. >> explain why they like to have a cell mate there in these situations. >> because obviously if you're worried about someone's health or well being, that cell mate can, you know, bang on the wall and get the guards to come quickly if there's a problem. what we know in the original instance is that there was an instance according to prison

officials he tried to hurt himself but according to him he wasn't attempting to hurt himself but it was the cell mate who by most accounts first started making noise in the cell that brought guards to that situation. >> let me go to ariana. do you have any reporting you can give us about foul play perhaps or other involved, other prisoners on that cell block, anything like that that might be a lead as to why they failed so miserably to keep an eye on this guy? >> there are huge question marks surrounding the death of jeffrey epstein today, and i don't pretend to have the answers for it. what i do know is his own policies were not followed here and perhaps and the bureaucratic behavior, i was in the southern district of new york for eight years. there was one defendant that i was aware of that was put on suicide watch and there were no deaths in the jail while i was a

prosecutor with the southern district of new york which of course is where the metropolitan correction center is where jeffrey epstein was housed. it is so rare that this happens and for someone who is the most, perhaps the most high profile department of justice criminal defendant in this country at this time, for this death to happen is incomprehensible and the investigation must continue and there must be clear definitive answers given as to why there was such a failure here. >> i'm going to inform this in a common sense courtroom way. why am i, someone who watches the news and covers stories like this, generally with a lot of scrutiny not surprised by what happened on saturday, and he had found himself in a situation, a man who had enjoyed his life, ridiculously and infamously found himself at the end of the line would do this.

it didn't surprise me. why would it surprise the people managing this prison that this guy would likely do this? it's common sense given his pattern of living, impulsively, doing what he felt like doing when he wanted to do it, his own world he lived in, and they were surprised that he tried to take his life? i wasn't. most people aren't surprised by this. your thoughts. >> you know, at this point in time because there are now three investigations pending we don't know the answer as to why people might not be surprised he would want to take his life. let me just start with the first beginning premise here. we don't know what happened. we know he's dead. we don't know what happened. yes, there could be reasons why, given the timing on friday of the release of 2,000 documents in the second circuit relating to his case, which named lots of high profile figures and showed lots of damming evidence in this

case. there could be reasons why he saw the writing on the wall and wanted to commit suicide on saturday, the day after. that could be, but honestly, i'm not prepared here at this time to say what happened. we don't know. >> i want to get back to develin on that question because the reason i suggest it was likely that there was this kind of development to come, is that after the last release of information is when he attempted it the last time. >> right, and look, it is not out of, you know, the realm of possibility frankly that someone facing a virtual death sentence for heinous alleged crimes would decide they would rather just end their life than serve that sentence, than face that additional public humiliation and condemnation. so i think there's a universe in which we can understand his rational. the main question is what do the video tapes inside mcc show. do they support this belief by

officials that he killed himself. and also to the degree that the videos show what the officials in the jail did, how much is that video damming of the official's own conduct. did they just not care. that's a big question. did they care enough to check on him. >> i have to squeeze one in. notoriously, we know people have been accused and go to prison for child abuse of any kind, face death in a horrible way from their fellow prisoners. it's some sort of code they operate under. a personal that would kill him in this case, would be credited something of a hero within the prison culture. isn't that something that mr. epstein was facing as well, life inside prison would end rather horribly for him? >> i think there's some reason to consider that, especially because a lot of people in prison are victims themselves of abuse, and take that sort of behavior very very seriously. >> i see. >> so that is always a concern with convicted pedophiles and sex abusers in prison. >> thank you so much.

great reporting, develin barrett and ariana burg, thank you so much for your expertise and reporting. now shannon petty, and joel payne, strategist. is the president of the united states re-tweeting nonsense about bill clinton being involved. i mean, off the wall, why does our president do this? they want conspiracy buffs of the hard right who love this stuff. >> saturday from his bedminster summer retreat, that was one of the things he was doing. i mean, it does insert him into a story that's the main news story of the day that doesn't have to do with him, so it helps bring the element, even though it does have a little bit to do with him because he was an associate of jeffrey epstein. there's no evidence that he was involved in wrong doing. it's interesting to see the white house reaction that they

have not gone to discredit this theory that the clintons were show involved in epstein's death, and they almost sort of suggested there is something there to be investigated. kellyanne conway said the president thinks everything should be investigated and the campaign advisers said the same thing. they have continued to, well not endorse the theory, an underlying suggestion that everything should be investigated. >> suggest these things, and you're suggesting this is off the wall. there's no connection between bill clinton, and this guy's death. >> of course not. >> i was with you recently, and we talked about this. this is who he is at his core. >> he does it to you. >> sure. >> it's horrible. >> but it's almost like, explain away his behaviors. i take your point about the new

cycle piece. i kind of think this is who he is. he's the guy who thinks, 9/11 was an inside job. he's the guy that thinks the pizza parlor half a mile away was housing pedophilia run by house democrats. >> you have raised the issue, we have the tape to show it. president trump, he is our president with this pattern of pushing false claims. he launched his political career promoting the false notion that barack obama wasn't born here and built his 2016 campaign by promoting a number of unfound conspiracy theories. take a listen. >> i watched when the world trade center came tumbling down. and i watched in jersey city, new jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. >> do you accept that president obama was born in the united states. >> no, i really don't know. >> do you know that hillary clinton chswas a birther.

>> was with lee harvey oswald, the whole thing is ridiculous, prior to his being shot. nobody brings it up. >> you mention president obama being the founder of isis. >> he's the founder of isis. >> you have to be a citizen to vote. you have places where people walk in and vote. >> you look at the people who are registered, illegal, and two states, and some cases maybe three states. we have a lot to look into. >> and one point during the campaign, trump told "the washington post" that theories about foul play involving the death of clinton white house lawyer vince foster were very serious because the circumstances were very, this is trump's words, very fishy. what's been a notorious conspiracy claim that both bill and hillary clinton were responsible for the death, the fact is foster died by suicide. a well established fact. i have a theory, he has a number of constituencies, there are the

people who hate immigrants period especially from the southern border and won't believe anything about them, rapists, whatever. a number of people have real problems, racism, all the way. he wants to keep them aboard. he's got gun people, he has a number of constituencies on the far right. he doesn't want to mess with because he can't afford to give up one. he needs those vote, your thoughts. >> he needs to hold on to certain constituencies. when you look at sort of these comments that he'll sort of throw out there. >> ted cruz's father killed kennedy. >> he does not come from a world or a background where truth and accuracy matter. if you think of him and you listen to him in there as a marketer, as a salesman, as someone who's just trying to make a point, if you're selling real estate, you can tell somebody, oh, you know, you can see to the atlantic ocean from here. or i heard a rumor that this building is going up, and it doesn't really matter. so much is about marketing and branding. branding his opponents.

>> not if the walls are thick enough. the specks matter. if you're a builder, joe, i want to know the specs are meant. >> shannon brings up the point but he relies on it. he comes from a world that's not important, needs that. bill barr talking about this, how can he or anybody have credibility when trump has spent the last three years telling you that everyone in the fbi and senior levels of law enforcement are liars and you can't believe them. it's moments like this where we need to believe those folks, the president has created a world where you shouldn't trust those people. >> i misspoke, bill maher, a great ban, well, bill barr is no bill maher, thank you, shannon, and thank you joel. one week after two mass shootings in this country, the case for hope is coming when it comes to gun control. i think so, yes, i think there's

hope. there are reasons to be hopeful. i think the stars are aligning this time, i think, against mr. mitch mcconnell there on the right. plus, president trump is lashing out privately and on twitter for being called a racist. he doesn't like it, saying it's just another attempt to discredit him. his remarks behind closed doors at a hampton's fundraiser over the weekend are not helping his defense, and he's losing the mooch, the former white house official says republicans should consider putting country before party and dump this guy trump. that's the mooch talking. and one well known republican politician seriously considers running against the guy, you know this guy, he's going to run. looks like much more ahead, stick with this. run. looks like much more ahead, stick with this. wow!

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my part's got to get out of the defensive crouch that has us thinking that we're in the minority on these issues. america is with us in demanding common sense gun safety.

>> welcome back. isn't he good. anyway, that's buttigieg. mayor pete buttigieg in iowa calling for new gun control legislation. the democratic candidates showed unity in the wake of the massacres in el paso and dayton in demanding that president trump and the congress enact new gun laws. 16 candidates participated in a forum in des moines sponsored by every town for gun safety. >> my friends on the debate stage have great ideas which i support. we do not lack for great ideas. what we lack is the united states congress to have the courage to act. >> if mcconnell wants to vote against gun safety legislation, let him vote against it. but reconvene the united states senate. >> it's not just about passing four pieces of legislation over their changing two regular laeglaeg -- regulations over here. it's about reducing deaths from

gun violence. >> they should be exposed. they should be exposed for what they refuse to do because they're being intimidated by the nra. >> former vice president joe biden there followed up on his appearance in iowa with an op-ed in the "new york times" on sunday. biden promised to ban assault weapons if elected writing, if we cannot rise to meet this moment, it won't just be a political affair, it will be a moral one, we accept the next inevitable tragedy. politico reports the unified response sends a clear signal that gun control is front and center for democrats in the race to beat trump, writing democrats this year more so than the last presidential election have been void on gun control, and by a ground swell of youth activism following the school shooting in parkland, florida. i'm joined by robert acosta, adrian el rod, former senior add virer to -- adviser to hillary

clinton. i guess my question is this moment different given all the coming together issues of the supremacy argument, the mass kimming, the shooting -- killing, the shooting of children, all this in the last couple of years, is this going to change the fight lines between the nra and gun control people. >> here's why i think it's different because of all the reasons you mentioned and if you're at mitch mcconnell, looking at the polls, the suburban voters that you need to get elected, those voters want to see background checks. they want to see gun laws strengthened. i think in that context, it does matter. you've also got a course of 20 plus democratic presidential candidates right now talking about this. >> answer the question, ready. >> yeah. >> cartoon question. >> okay. >> mitch mcconnell, is he elmer fudd or is he bugs bunny. bugs bunny was brilliant. is he smart? does he have a calculation here, and if so, is it time to give on the red flag at least?

>> democrats don't think the red flag laws go far enough. >> do you think he'll go that far? >> but will he go that far. will he give something for once. >> i think he might try to. >> is it time for mitch to give something, throw a bone to the gun control people? >> i think the president could back this. >> i'm asking about mitch. >> 90% approval rating with the party, if the president says i'm behind this, that gives the green light to the majority leader to say yes to increasing background checks, yes to closing the gun show loophole. i'm a gun owner, i think i'm okay with that, yes to red flag laws, again, i'm a gun owner, i shoot regularly, i have friends who are nra members, they support common sense measures and i think to adrian's point about suburban women in particular, i think some of those positions would be sound enough for them to stick with the party. >> is it time for him to give an

inch, and mcconnell. >> depend what you mean by an inch. >> based on my reporting red flag law is dead on arrival. you have a member of the leadership saying he has due process, and senator ben sasse up for reelection. being championed by senator graham, talking to president trump on the goflf course about it. the only game in town if you want gun control based on my conversations with top republicans, toomey manchin, it has to be revived. >> it doesn't threaten the nra much but it does widen the background check law, right? >> it does. >> it includes gun shows. >> listen to rush limbaugh's somehow on friday. they know they're dealing with a president who's not ideological at the core and may be looking for a win as the trade deal stalls with china. if he starting looking for a background check, you have people beyond the nra boosting

the gun rights activism, telling the white house don't move an inch, we're not going to give anything, and mcconnell's play i'm told is to let it peter out, talk about background checks and let it peter out. >> here's the biggest question, you're a democrat, but i think i have to start with you. what's trump more afraid of, being too opposition to the gun control people and the american people that he looks like he's pro gun and pro death or more afraid of rush limbaugh calling him a traitor? >> i think it's a toss up. look, he's more fearful about losing face. >> already calling him a traitor. >> and i think that donald trump in the back of his mind knows if he tries to concede on background checks and goes forward on that, even if 75% of nra supports background checks. his base. >> is he more afraid of his base, rush limbaugh or the

majority of the american people. >> rush limbaugh and his base. >> if the president wants to stand behind some form of a measured reform, he certainly can based upon his approval in the party. he could. i think he could. i think more voters would stand with the president. >> robert, your question. >> he says he would becouckle. >> what's the greatest organization that helps you get out the vote, it's the nra. as i look at the suburban problem, they say we need our base in 2020. it's going to be very difficult. president trump has to lean in and give his political capital to toomey manchin or it won't go anywhere. >> with respect to robert, i don't see how that's true. i worked on beginning rich's campaign, romney's campaign, and ben carson's campaign, and i do not believe the notion that the nra has more clout than the republican party. >> the nra has a strong ground game. they have members --

>> the nra doesn't have a get out the vote mechanism. >> he's got five weeks to play with his thing until the 9th of september, i think he would like to not do anything. if he does toomey manchin that might squeak by in pennsylvania, it raises the question of the true gun people. i got a brother one of these guys, i know them, and they're unforgiving and always liking for traitors and if they see trump for a traitor, bye bye pennsylvania. >> house democrat, they want to deal with the president they're calling a white supremacist, a lot of democrats are pressuring the leadership saying don't work with this president on the gun deal. it's not going to come out in our direction. >> the democrats wants issue too. >> they want reform, but they don't want to have a watered down deal. >> nobody wants something just like the calling out the one person who shouldn't be getting a gun. >> the policy needs to be proportionate. i have heard gun activists on

the democratic side ban all assault rifles all together, i'm not in support of that. >> my guests are sticking with us. new reporting that president trump is lashing out being called, doesn't like that word racist. frustrating he can't shed the label. he didn't help his reputation with his attempt at foreign accents at the hamptons over the weekend. you're watching "hardball." you're watching "hardball. so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar? thanks, lady. taxi! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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i don't think it helps, first of all, i don't like it when they do it. because i'm not any of those things. i think it's a disgrace, for them to throw out the race word, racist, racist, that's all they use, to anybody. they call nancy pelosi a racist. she's not a racist. they call anybody a racist when they run out of cards. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was president trump defending himself, and reacting to democrats calling him a racist and white supremacist. it's been a month of rhetoric from him starting with his tweet that four democratic congresswomen of color, three of them born here in the u.s. should go back and fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. at least his grammar was right. that escalated to supporters yelling send her back to ilhan omar in one of his rallies, and the president went after another

member of congress of color, elijah cummings, calling baltimore the worst in the usa, and a disgusting, rat infested rodent mess, and the charges of racism after the el paso's shooter's manifesto was revealed to have echoed trump's language on inauguration. "the washington post" says being called a racist has caused trump to lash out, allies and advisers explain it's the natural reaction to have anyone who does not consider himself a racist but is accused of being one. trump feels the charges of racism are another attempt to discredit him, not unlike, he believes, the more than a dozen women that have accused him of sexual misconduct or russia interference in the 2016 election. robert you start this time, i mean, this seems to bother him. is this going to hurt his credit score as we say in business, this charge of racism, will wit

hurt him in the burbs. >> i was in the perimeter of atlanta, and talking to suburban voters there, white, black, latino, and asian, you get the impression that the racist tweets of the president, his behavior, it's baked into their view of the president but it's not driving their decision making. they're concerned about the trade war. they're concerned about immigration, especially the economy. and so it does have an effect in the suburbs and we saw in 2018 the president did have a problem in the suburbs, the republican brand had a problem and part of it is due to its commentary. >> why does this bother him? >> it bothers him because first of all, it's true. it's absolutely true. he can not have it both ways. he can not criticize members of congress of color. he can't put elijah cummings life in danger, make comments about -- >> do you think he exploits comments about race. >> i think he does.

and there have been questions, should democrat candidates call him a white supremacist or nationalist or racist, is that taking it too far. i don't think it is. >> biden won't do it. >> biden is straddling on the line. >> the tier 1's aren't doing it. if you're a tier 2, you have basically nothing to lose by calling out what you actually see. >> 1% in the polls or less, you got nothing to lose period. >> michael, i'm giving you a joke here, but the fact is trump doesn't like it. >> i can't imagine any white person not liking being called racist, so i guess i sort of understand that. i'll let democrats figure out if that's what they want to call the president. i have seen no quantidata to su this is moving the needle one way or the other. if you believe he's a racist, you formed that view likely around charlottesville or maybe before. if you don't think he's a racist, that's a view you held

before. while i understand democrats that are throwing meat to the base, that excites a lot of democrats, i would imagine. i'm not certain as far as independents that it's something that will move the needle one way or the other. >> it has affected his disapproval ratings. that's a factor when you're trying to get reelected. >> it's early, though, and you know this, we've both worked on presidential campaigns, it's very very early. i'm not certain, you know, six months from now, what the presidential approval ratings will be. i think arguably it depends on what the economy is and how the economy is pacing. >> fair. >> the northeast reports a fundraiser in the hamptons, the president made fun of u.s. allies, south korea, japan, and the european union, mimicking japanese accents. this isn't the first time trump has attempted an accent. he has been known to imitate indian prime minister, and also something he has done in multiple times on camera. here it goes. >> the attorney general says i'm

going to recuse myself. and when i asked president xi, i said do you have a drug approximately, no, no, no, i said why, death penalty. we give death penalty to people that sell drugs. end of problem. where are you from. india. great, that's wonderful. thank you very much, that's all i need. negotiating with japan, negotiating with china. they say, we want deal. >> that's sort of lone ranger talk, i'm not sure they are decent accents, but they are derogatory, aren't they? >> it's all in the interpretation. i think it depends on interpretation. let's be honest, are there some legitimate things to call out about the president that are obviously racist, absolutely. >> who wants to argue. >> i'm happy to argue, it is

racist, and i think what's troubling is donald trump doesn't realize it. >> the president of the united states is a different category, maybe he couldn't tell the jokes he would at a party, british accents, irish accents. >> those are pretty sad accents of his that he's trying to em la -- emulate. >> it's a statement on the republican party continuing to support the president, despite comments that are racist, stereo typical, offensive, the party believes politically he provides a benefit, until they swallow comments day in and day out because they believe he's the key to reelection in 2020. we have a political culture that for the most part in the republican side allows us to -- >> knowing his sensitivity in the public mind about him and his attitude to the people that weren't brought up like him or look like him, why all the jokes and mimicries. >> why? >> he needs to entertain? >> it's not entertaining. if anything, it's hurtful. he does it because as people

around the president say, this is who he is, and i have no psychological explanation to offer. >> i think people at those rallies find those things to be appealing. i personally don't but i think they do. >> they're chuckling and until the moods of those crowds change, i think he's going to keep doing those things. >> this is an important conversation. thank you from the different point of view from her. anyway, cryou come from differe political parties and backgrounds. a man says republicans should reconsider nominating him again. you're watching "hardball." reco. you're watching "hardball. of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. oh! under 7? (announcer) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds.

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and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program visit right now or call during business hours. the president didn't do well on the trip. he'd probably be mad at somebody for saying that. maybe he'll tweet something negative about somebody for saying they didn't do well on

the trip. the facts are, he did not do well on the trip because if the trip is being made about him and not the demonstration of compassion and love and caring and empathy for those people, then it becomes a catastrophe for him, the administration and it's a bad reflection on the country. >> that was former white house communications director, anthony scaramucci on hardball just last week responding to the president's visits to dayton, ohio, and el paso, texas. over the weekend, the president struck back at scaramucci personally, saying he was quickly terminated from a position that he was totally incapable of handling, and seems to do nothing but television as the all time expert on president trump. that's president trump talking about scaramucci talking about him. scaramucci responded while he fully supported the president recently, the president has said things that divide the country in a way that's unacceptable. that's the latest verdict on him. scaramucci added eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire

country. today scaramucci went further saying he thinks republicans need to consider a change at the top of the ticket. >> i think the president needs to be challenged. i think he's a very tired pitcher now that's throwing balls over the backstop, and we need a relief pitcher to come in that can speak to the american people about very similar policies with a different more inclusive style. i'm calling on my fellow republicans. the question is going to be object them, do they have the courage to step force in a block, okay, and knock this guy off. >> next is a republican considering challenging the president for the nomination for president in 2020. you know this guy, stick with us, you're watching "hardball." us, you're watching "hardball. with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice,

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tthe bad news? ouyour patience might not.ay. new depend® fit-flex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. be there with depend®. i'm here to say there's a big storm coming. we've never had so much debt. we've never had so much spending. we've never had this much of our debt owned by foreign governments. i listen to the president who rules out action on the things that drive our debt and spending. it makes me wonder how we change our country's direction on spending debt. some have suggested starting an advocacy group. others have suggesting running in the republican party against the president as a way of elevating the issue and changing the debate. i don't know what the answer is, but i do know that we have to do something. >> welcome back to "hardball",

that was a new video from the former governor of south carolina, mark sanford who says he's mulling whether to challenge the president next year for renomination as a republican. he was caught up in a marital scandal during his second term of governor, and lost his congressional primary in 2018 after president trump urged voters not to back him. it's been nearly a month since sanford announced in may he would be getting into the 2020 race. over the past few weeks, he has been speaking with people in the early voting states of iowa and california. as the former governor approached the self-imposed 30 day deadline to make a final decision, sanford will be heading to new hampshire tomorrow for a two day swing out there through the key primary state. former governor mark sanford of south carolina. governor, thank you for coming on tonight, and i wonder about this because a famous politician once said to me, the only reason to run for office is you've got nothing better to do. you're not happy with what you're doing, and you want to knock the other guy's block off.

you're serious about taking on donald trump. i mean, taking him on in a really withering fight because he's not going to make your life pleasant. >> i fully understand that, given of his tweets more in the past. as was expressed in that video, i think a lot is at stake. i think we need to have a conversation particularly as republicans about what we stand for, what we believe, because a lou of the traditional benchmarks have got bon the wayside with president trump. >> what happened to free trade? what happened to fiscal responsibility? the whole shebang, what happened to alliances around the world built basically by a bipartisan coalition of democrats and republicans and certainty led by dwight eisenhower and ronald reagan. that whole shebang of republican believe. it's gone. >> the belief is still there.

given the thousands of different visits i've had over the last 25 years in politics, whether it was congress before, the eight years of the governship, those folks are still there who care whether it's a farmer in the midwest caring about being ability to export soybeans on or whether it's somebody at the port, i mean, people still care about the way in which we're linked to the rest of the world given the impact of the economy at large and their pocketbook or wallet as the case might be. similarly on the deficit issue, people that i talk to, little small business person, he cared about or she cared about getting their finances in order. the same thing as they sat around the kitchen table. they're not being focused on by this president, but i believe at a grass-roots level they're out there and need to be discussed. i remember the sons of saddam hussein, and if you went

to the wrong restaurant and they got their eye contact, you were dead. it seems like every republican in your party is dead. lindsey is scared to death of him. i like the guy. why does he like trump so much? it doesn't seem human. >> i think lindsey has been transparent. in fairness to him, this is the cost to stay in the game. everyone has their own line in the sand. >> but you're not afraid. >> no. i've already been a dead guy in the politics. a deadman has little to fear. of course i'm afraid. yeah, you're terrified. it's a monumental task of crazy levels of scale, different to get your arms around. >> i think people are afraid. let's talk about november, 2020, when you would like to be on the

republican ticket. suppose the ticket is instead let by the president, current president, and also the choices -- say something like joe biden, who would i vote for right now? trump or biden? >> again, i am a republican. there's no getting around that. >> who would you vote for? you're out there to knock trump off? >> i believe in the sanctity of the ballot box. i think it will not be bernie sande sanders, not bleelizabeth warre not a -- >> you go trump over biden? >> i would. >> okay. let me ask you about this white nationalism tag on trump. he seems to be wearing it unpleasantly. is it fair? is he a white nationalist? >> i don't think he's a white nationalist, but i think the white nationalists think that, and that's even more troubling.

you don't want somebody who thinking they're speaking to you if you're in that particular line of thinking. i think that the issue is, rightly or wrongly, they're reading the tea leaves in a way that's sympathetic to them. that's a problem. >> i hope you enjoy new hampshire. i'm rooting for you to raise hell in new hampshire, which is particularly beautiful in the summer. good luck, governor. headed to new hampshire, the granite state. up next, the clear differences between the two parties on guns and america. you've got to hear this. this is sharp. these two parties really radically disagree. the democrats and republicans. you're watching "hardball." s an. you're watching "hardball. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him.

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plus get $250 back when you pre-order a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today. we talked earlier in the show tonight about gun control. just to show you how different the democrats and republicans are on this issue, here's the competing language in their platform. first, the democrats, quote -- with 33,000 americans dying every year from guns, democrats believe we must finally take sensible action to address gun violen violence. we can respect the rights of responsible gun owners while keeping our community safe. expand background checks and hold irresponsible dealer and manufacturers accountable, keep weapons of war such as assault weapons off our streets and ensure guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists, domestic

abusers and other violent criminals and those with severe mental health issues. >> here's the rep platform. a natural inalienable right that predaze the constitution, and is secured by the second amendment. lawful gun ownership enables americans to exercise their god-given right of self-defense for the safety of their homes, loved ones and communities. we salute the republican congress for defending the right to keep and bear arms by preventing the president from installing a new liberal majority on the court we condemn frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers and the current administration's illegal harassment of firearm dealers registration of aim mission and

restoration of the clinton ban. the republicans wants to expand the rights of americans to own and carry guns anywhere. we await to hear what both parties will do. the guns of august have all right been heard from. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hays" starts now. we are now learns of serious irregularities. >> announcer: as fbi agents swarm jeffrey epstein's private island. >> we will get to the bottom of what happened centers tonight what we know and where the investigations go from here. then -- >> president trump's administration is reinforcing the ideals of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility. >> julian castro on the new white house plan to penalize legal immigrants for needing benefits. plus -- >> can you add what amy and what diane