we got it. >> hello, everyone. and welcome to "am joy." donald trump is up early this morning, not a surprise there. he is tweeting about how upset he is with the media for the way his administration has been covered. we'll have more on that later in the show. but first to this scene in portland, oregon. far right nationalists were met by demonstrations. there were 13 arrests, 6 minor injuries and the portland mayor calling the demonstration fairly peaceful. they say the purms of tpose of rally to get anti-fascist which some have labeled antifa declared a terror organization and the organizer of the rally is claiming victory saying they got what they wanted before the demonstrations even started when trump, president of the united states tweeted this out. in support of of the mission

considering he's labeling antifa an organization of terror. this comes only two weeks after one of the deadliest hate crimes against latinos in the country, when a lone gunman walked into an el paso wal-mart and specifically targeted hispanics because of what he called, quote, a hispanic invasion echoing some of donald trump's previous language arb where point not lost on the mayor of portland. >> this national environment where we had some mass shootings just a little over a week ago, there was was an environment of fear. that is national. it's not unique to portland. but a time when people are expressing hatred, at a time when people are expressing intolerance, when there's rhetoric that is aimed predominantly at women and people of color and immigrants, it creates a sense of uncertainty and a sense of fear. >> joining me now is msnbc security analysts, great to have

you both with us. frank, let me begin using the mayor's last comments there, that this country right now is in a state of fear. we have too many a toxic elements kind of creating a bit of a perfect storm that is leading to a dangerous precipice. let me play you this sound bite from the mayor of portland, ted wheeler. >> we are now confronting the reality that in the united states we have a rising white nationalist movement based on white supremacy in this country. and it is impacting the entire nation, but we're certainly see that play out here on the streets of portland. so i want to be very clear, we do not want him here in my city, period. >> so give us the macro level perspective on this, frank. what are we seeing play out here on a national level the way the mayor described it? >> so we need to get rid of all

this angst in our society about what is domestic terrorism, what is free speech versus hate speech because quite honestly american people understand what hate groups and racist groups are. and the proud boys is an example of a group that is massacre aiding as something other than a hate group. they tell us they are a western values group, promoting american values. and we all seem to wrestle with this issue, and the reality is we need to call it what it is. what it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck we should be able as a society both legally and philosophically to say this undermines american values. and i think that's part of the problem we're facing right now is that the inability to call something what it is and recognize it as a threat to our values. what makes this even more complicated, we have an administration right now who seems to be aligned with these people of hate, seems to be

inciting it. when you have a leader of proud boys yesterday saying as you played in a clip the president of the united states on twitter gave us what we needed. that is response to a question why is the parade over, why is the protest over so early, because we got what we needed from the president of the united states when he said he's looking at the anti-fascist as a domestic terrorism organization. it's time to rethink how we label violent extremist ideology. >> how much of that, frank, is as you mentioned this administration enabling these policies, how much emboldens these groups to carry out -- how do explain to the average american on the street what you're seeing there transcends what you were saying a freedom of speech exercise? >> because no matter where you are politically on the spectrum or what your beliefs are, we need to say as a society if you

have an ideology of violence and we see it being played out amongst your members and it's being incited by leadership and essentially you're watching a radicalization process take place not unlike what we see with islamic jihad radicalization. so we need to say we don't care where you're coming from on this, we're going to call it violent ideology and if a majority of your group is moving towards violence, we're going to give law enforcement the investigative tools it needs to look at you and prevent the violence before it happens. the fbi director has said we don't investigate ideology, we wait for the violence. but the time you get to violence you're just cleaning up the carnage. it's time to get the laws changed so we can prevent it from happening. >> i know you worked in counter terrorism before and obviously a lot of comparisons are being made and drawn on the fact we

are as frank said going through a radicalization process in this country that is appealing to more and more young people like the el paso shooter. what is being done right now to try and tone down if possible or maybe restore a sense of security like the mayor of portland was saying because of the fact we have fear sweeping through this country? >> it's a great question and thanks for having me in this morning. on the question about ideology, this is tough one and we've wrestled with this question for the past almost 20 years in the counter terrorism community when dealing with the overseas threats and groups, alkial-qaedd then isis. looking more recently and domestically one of the challenges is least within the u.s. framework we have no way of designating domestic terrorism organizations or groups. there's no list to account for which groups on any side of the political spectrum either the

far right or the far left would be in this category of domestic -- pure domestic terrorism organizations. so going forward that might be something that needs to be examined, whether it's in legislation or some kind of executive order or other kind of executive branch sort of guidance that can law enforcement, the intelligence community do more against these types of groups and individuals and movements in the united states, so that to me is a big thing that potentially needs to be looked at. >> let me play you a sound bite of some of the protesters that participated in yesterday's event from portland, oregon, and i'm going to get your comment from the back end. watch. >> they're targeting us because it's a liberal city with progressive values and they vilify us on the internet make us look like we're the terrorists. >> there's nazi and not nazi. >> we came in and did a march peacefully, went in, plant our flag, came back out and they're chasing us right now.

>> in some ways are we in kind of a self-fulfilling media cycle here around this, by going there and drawing attention, drawing the anti-fascists out there, the president tweeting about it, the media having to cover it, are we in a downward spiral here we can't break out of as more and more of these protests take place and a president that seems to be ambiguous about taking one side or the other. he's been clear he's been talking about targeting antifa and there are great people on both sides all the time. >> bringing folks from both sides of these ideological extremes together to meet in a place like portland or somewhere else, and even on the question of antifa as what was said in the clip, they themselves are using violence against the people that they're there to

protest against. so that potentially would draw them in the interest of law enforcement, if they're using violence to advance a political agenda that fits under the definition of domestic terrorism. this is where things get murky. what is an act of criminality and what is an act of terrorism as defined under u.s. code and u.s. law. >> i'm old enough to remember when president obama was in office and right wing conservatives were bashing him to call islamic extremism what it is and that became a central point saying he refused to do that when itself raised all kinds of questions. but now it seems there is a reluctance on the part of conservatives and at least this administration to call out what we're seeing happen in the country for what it is, white domestic terrorism or nationalism or supremacy. how much of a hindrance is it they won't come out with a clear strategy? the tampa bay times reported

there was a reporting on shootings trying to down-play white nationalism and to blame the left. i'm wondering from your perspective, a law enforcement perspective, how much that complicates the fight against it. >> when law enforcement tells us they don't have the investigative tools they need to get in, investigate and prevent, we need to pay attention to that. just recently the fbi agents association came out with a statement saying they don't have the tools they need. they're advocating for a domestic terrorism law that allows them to do essentially what you can do with international terrorism. look, if you change the religion of the el paso shooter and change his motivation to islamic jihad, you have laws that would have allowed the fbi in the websites, chat rooms that would have potentially gotten them to identify the risk ahead of time and even prevent it. so we need to figure that out. i think it's time to take down the artificial legal wall between domestic terrorism and

international terrorism and just call all of the violent ideology a threat, identify it before another disaster happens, before politicians -- if we wait for politicians to wrestle with the political issues here, it's going to be too late. let's just give law enforcement the tools they need. >> i draw on the experience we've had as a country combating the extremist or foreign terrorists, and we've even setup agencies within the state department. do we have a similar infrastructure within the united states government, security agencies, even on a local level to combat that hate or are we kind of totally leaving that to society to deal with? >> unfortunately, we don't have a parallel infrastructure that has been built over the last 20 years that was focused on the overseas threat, even manifestations here in the southern united states to combat what we would consider pure

domestic exteamism or terrorism here. that's one of the things again a lot of smart folks is now thinking about is what kind of bureaucratic rearrangement or news structures need to be in place to enhance what the fbi is already doing, because the fbi where frank used to work and i used to work, they're really the federal agency for combating domestic terrorism in the united states. but beyond the fbi there are probably more departments and agencies that could be doing more against this threat. the department of homeland security, some other departments and agencies, so that's something that also i think needs to be reexamined going forward. >> stick around for us. thank you very much for your time this morning. >> thank you. coming up, new numbers that give a glimmer of hope to americans who want meaningful gun reform. that's next. gun reform that's next. ♪ ♪ award winning interface.

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we are fighting for our democracy and the laws are not going to change until we get many people, many others to join in with us to be a part of this revolution. and it must be a revolution. >> congressman elijah cummings was among the hundreds of people taking to the streets this weekend in all 50 states to demand congress do something about gun violence. and a new nbc news wall street journal poll out this morning shows that there is broad

support for action after the mass shootings in el paso and dayton. 89% favor expanding background checks to all gun sales. 76% support red flag laws that allow police to remove guns from those considered to be too dangerous. and 62% support banning the sale of assault weapons. the issue has also galvanized candidates on the presidential campaign trail. >> what do we teach our children? we can't protect you, so we're going to send you to school and teach you drills about how to hide and shelter in place. >> it truly feels like this time is different. we've got to make sure it really turns out to be different, and that means ensuring there's a political penalty that anyone who blocks common sense gun reform supported by a majority of the american people. >> universal background checks makes sense, it'll save lives. red flag laws will do the same, ending the sale of assault weapons. but what we really need to do is

take guns off the street in a country of 329 million, there are 390 million guns. >> joining me now is shannon watts, founder of moms demand actions, one of the organizers of this weekend's rallies. it's great to have you with us. i wanted to pick up on something we just heard there from mayor pete buttigieg because i think it underscores the national debate we're having in this country which is about there has to be a political penalty for those that continue to stand in the way of those reforms, and we'll get to those reforms in a minute but do you feel from the work you're doing on the front lines of this issue, there is a political penalty for people opposing sensible gun reform? >> that's absolutely what's happening. after the sandy hook tragedy in 2012, there was not a political movement in place that could go toe to toe with the gun lobby. the fact we've grown so much and we now have that political power was shown in the mid-term elections in 2018. we outspent and outmaneuvered the nra. we elected over 1,000 gun sense

candidates across the country and we're the candidates went up against nra candidates, 77% of them won. that shows when you do the right thing, we'll have your back, but if you don't, we will have your job. >> very valid statistics you brought up there. people hearing you are making progress would then turn around and ask why have we not seen that translate whether it be on a federal level through congress or on a state level? why are we still seeing mass shootings from what you're seeing? >> well, we are waiting for this cathartic moech cathartic moment in congress. we've passed many, many laws in the state that are working. data and research shows that. we need our federal lawmakers to act. you know, republican husband a president and congress that should have done the nra's bidding in 2016, and it didn't happen. the nra's priority legislation never passed. on top of that we flipped the

u.s. house to be a gun sense majority and we passed sweeping gun reform through the u.s. house. we need mitch mcconnell to act on those laws we know will save american lives. this momentum is not going to go away. they either act or there will be hell to pay in 2019 and 2020. >> and to that point, our commander in chief has been trying to frame this conversation. let me play you a sound bite from how he's been framing this debate about guns. >> we are working very hard to make sure we keep guns out of hands of insane people and those who are mentally sick and shouldn't have guns. it's not the gun that pulls the trigger, it's the person holding the gun. >> shannon, what do you make of the way the president is framing that to his base? that is political rally. that is president talking to his base. he's not talking to the country. when he comes out and talks to the country, it's a slightly

different tone. but when he's in that moment, you can clearly see he wants to kind of play to his base by saying this is mental health issue which in itself has drawn a lot of criticism and stigmatizes those with mental health in this country. >> that's exactly right. we know only about 5% of shooters show any signs of mental illness before hand. we know people mentally ill are much more likely to be victims of violent crime, not the perpetrators. this is about easy access to guns. it's the reason we have 25% higher homicide rate than any other country. the gun lobby has been writing our gun laws. >> let me share with you some of our efforts under way in the house judiciary committee they want to consider. among them banning high capacity magazines, instituting red flag laws, barring people convicted of misdemeanor hate crimes from possessing a gun.

do you think that is going to be enough? >> we need the house to keep passing legislation because eventually we'll have a president and senate in place that will do the right thing. but, look, this is on us to show up this weekend at rallies and throughout august and have meetings with our senators because we can change hearts and minds. we saw a republican governor of ohio who has an a-rating from the nra saying he now will support stronger gun laws and that's because of the pressure his constituents put on him. so we need to continue to use our voices and votes on this issue because eventually we will have that cathartic moment in congress and time is of the essence. 100 americans are shot and killed every day in this country. >> thank you very much for joining us this morning. and coming up what joe biden said at a fund-raiser on cape cod that is raising eyebrows this morning. we're going to tell you about that next. is morning we're going to tell you about that next. in my line of work,

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is there anything better than a trump rally? what about a sleepy joe biden rally? you've got kamala, kamala is falling. you've got beto.

beto is like gone. elizabeth warren. i did the pocahontas thing. i hit her really hard, and it looked like she was down-and-out. but that was too long ago. i should have waited, but don't worry we will revive it. >> that was the president seeming confident this week about how he stacked up against the current crop of 2020 dems. but that confidence may be a bit premature. in the new nbc news wall street journal poll 52% of registered voters say they will probably or definitely vote for the democratic candidate while only 40% say they will probably or definitely vote for donald trump. joining me now is co-founder and manager editor of the beat d.c., and also the columnist and jason johnson. lots to unpack here, guys. let me start with this fox news

poll, as well. the fox poll 2020 matchup, trump versus the democrats, every single one, biden, ony sanders, elizabeth warren, kamala harris all up against donald trump. tiffany, i'll start with you. what do you make of this -- we're still very early on, but what do you make of the fact that so far most of the polls show people prefer smgd else other than donald trump? >> i was talking about this with dr. jason johnson, nbc contributor, and this is not a president who has incurred anymore voters during this tumultuous two years and so he has the hard core base who are immovable, you cannot penetrate this layer of ignorance they have, and i think on the democratic side it is a much more i think intellectually curious crowd who are open to ideas, and you have more people jump ship from the sinking maga ship over to this side.

i hate to say we should be so confident he won't get re-elected baz we have to take into account he had a lot of help from russia last time, and this time there's going to be china or iran potentially influencing or trying to influence the election. so no one should take anything for granted. about the poll, a lot of people don't respond to polls. i know we talk a lot about this on the show. when we talk about influencing younger voters, millennials, people who pay attention to these things, they're not necessarily participating in a wall street journal poll. >> that's what i was going to ask you, which is when you kind of look at democratic candidates who may mobilize or energize the base, from the candidates that are out there right now, the front-runner is probably the person who is most conventional and doesn't necessarily do that. let me share with you guys tweets from joe biden. this is not his tweet, and he tweeted biden has said these following comments about

republicans. biden at a cape cod fund-raiser tonight, quote there's an awful lot of really good republicans out there. i get in trouble for saying that with democrats. but every time we ever got in trouble with our administration remember who got sent up to capitol hill to fix it. biden added they're decent people, they ran because they care about things but they're intimidated right now. is that going to mobilize the democratic base who really want to see president trump go? to be clear he didn't tweet that out -- >> that quote and tweet is something joe biden might say to get moderates to come over. it's not going to move our democratic base. you have to understand who you're playing to. my radio show, in the past i'd say nobody would call up with any passion for biden. that's changed. there are people now who like biden. it's still far eclipsed by those who call with far more passion for liz warren first and

foremost, then bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and a few others. so the energy in our party is not behind a traditional joe biden. the mantra on my show vote blue no matter who is something we talk about on my show nonstop. people collin, they'll even criticize biden. at the end they'll go he's a nominee i'm supporting. so ultimately we're getting there, and i will say one thing about 2018 which helped us, we won the mid-term 40 seats in the house. and all the votes counted, democratic, republican for the house we won by a margin of 10 million votes. that's historic. that shows how much passion is on our side. there's one last point from the fox news poll. headlines are interesting. look at right below that strongly approve versus strongly disapprove of donald trump. 27% strongly approve of donald trump. 48% of americans strongly disapprove. almost half the country strongly disapproves and that's a 21%

enthusiasm gap on our side. it can shift, but i'm telling you democrats are fired up and many in the middle are fired up and they're on our side. >> your former boss probably saw that enthusiasm when he had to run against beto o'rourke. when you look at these poll nabs that show he's losing in every single head to head with the cop tier contenders? >> sure, i can't think of a single poll i've seen in the last say three months that hasn't measured, registered record level enthusiasm, interest in voting in the 2020 election across the board among democrats, among republicans and among independents. it's only natural of course you're going to see more tangible thuchl tangible enthusiasm on the side where you have an active democratic primary for president. there's enthusiasm across the

board. i think all of us would agree, we're going to see record levels of turn out in 2020 just like we saw record levels of turn out in 2018 in the mid-term. i would just add a note of caution, and someone alluded to it earlier, it is early. make no mistake, any incombumbe president would rather be ahead than behind a generic hypothetical opponent. having said that as you guys note all too well it is very possible you can see a national poll that shows a majority of popular vote support for the democrat and president trump still wins re-election because of the electoral college. we all know this is about ohio, pennsylvania and the other battleground states. that's what we need to keep our eye on. >> to that point, do you want to comment on that really quickly? >> i just wanted to make the point when you're trying to engage voters -- in a democratic primary to your point, voters calling in these are people calling attention.

they're political nurerds like . when you get to the general i do think you need to focus on people who haven't been paying attention, when need to be inspired. i know we're saying vote blue no matter who, but it does matter who. everybody -- >> in that next stage. >> and people are used to still the biggest competitor was barack obama. he was this political wonder that came along. >> tiffany talked about black millennials a little bit and all the different diverse voters in the base of the democratic party. do you see anything from republicans including this president that shows there's some kind of outreach to try and win some of these voters once they get to a general election? >> setting aside how much success the president will have i do know and there have been several stories written about it recently that the president's campaign has a very concerted effort targeting african-american voters in swing

states. it's critical with regard to the democrats chance for retaking the white house that african-american turnout increased dramatically in this next election. and i think what a lot of people overlook is that for a republican national running for president makes a huge difference to the value of the republican and development of the democrat. >> guys, we're running out of time but the good news is all of you guys are going to be back with us later in the show. stick around. we've got more to talk about "am joy" after the break. o talk abom joy" after the break the highest level of safety possible. how many does your brand have? one. three. how about nine? subaru has more 2019 top safety pick plus awards than honda and toyota brands. combined. there's safe, and then there's subaru safe. (avo) get 0% during the subaru a lot to love event.

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certainly the aspirations for freedom seem to be a little -- >> we must proceed with a sense of humility. it's not america that put people into the streets of tunis or ca cairo, it is the people themselves who launch these movements and the people themselves who must determine the outcome. >> someone at the very least can speak with some authority about crises around the globe and then this week amid massive democracy protests troubling government crack down in kashmir and negotiations with a peace deal

in afghanistan where 63 people were killed in an attack at the wedding hall the current president of this country was focused on trying to buy the country of greenland. and when he was asked about something actually happening on the ground, that is the unrest in hong kong where protesters are demanding civil liberties from a protesting government, this is what he had to say. >> we'll see what happens but i'm sure it'll work out. i hope it works out for everybody including china, by the way. i hope it works out for everybody. i think it'll work out and i hope it works out for liberty. i hope it works out for everybody including china. i hope it works out peacefully. hope nobody gets hurt. i hope nobody gets killed. >> yes, mr. president, the hong kong thing is a very tough situation. joining me now is vivian, white house reporter for "the wall street journal" who actually broke the greenland story earlier this week. great to have you with us.

in fact, just a couple of minutes ago if you thought we were vojoking about this homela thing, larry cud lowe just told my colleague chuck todd on "meet the press" in fact president trump is still looking into buying greenland. do you -- and i'm not trying to kind of belittle this, and talk about all these other issues quickly, did you get a sense why in the world he wants to try and buy greenland. >> on the one hand he's a former real estate developer who does love a good piece of real estate. we're not actually joking about that. he does take an interest in it from that perspective. but also there are tremendous natur natural resources in greenland and also it's a strategic location for national security reasons just because of its position along the arctic and so there was some legitimacy as to his reasoning behind it and why he got intrigued in the first place. so whether or not he was actually going to go through with it is another story. the one thing we found, though,

is thatthrust precedent for it because the united states has actually tried to buy greenland twice before in history. once in the 1800s and once again in 1846. so the white house felt there was actual some legitimacy to inquire about this. >> everyone thought the third time would be a charm that the dannish government has rejected the president's offer saying thanks but no thanks. let me run through a list of the pressing issues that the world is dealing with including this president. you've got the cold war tensions revving up between the u.s. and china saying it has now reached a tipping point. you've got that destabilizing global technology and supply chain which obviously would have a huge impact on commerce. u.s.-russia cyber war. you've got the fiscal crisis in italy, china and hong kong have tensions on the rise. you've got tensions in the relationship between trump and taiwan, and you have brexit all looming large. and we haven't even talked about

some of the crises in venezuela and india. this administration has been somewhat silent on many of these pressing issues. why do you think from your reporting have they not been on the forefront of some of these crises? >> it depends on the crisis you're talking about. obviously the china issue in particular is one that's been very sensitive for the trump administration. it's something i've looked into tremendous amount in the recent weeks. president trump very intent on making a deal with china. even his advisers have counseled him and told him you should turn your attention to -- and all the while you have in the background the hong kong protests. president trump has asked his advisers on numerous occasions to keep a measured tone with

regard to the hong kong protests because he really doesn't want to ruffle feathers with beijing, and this is something he felt even in his meeting with president xi of china a couple of months ago, this is something he felt he could assure him is we're not going to get involved. even on a broader scale president trump has said he doesn't want to be a policeman. this is approach he's vowed to take since day one so it's really not surprising he takes a step back and stays quiet on these things. >> one of the foreign policy issues the president was all in on was venezuela. and it was earlier this year the president alluded to possibly intervening in there when he said he would consider intervening in the venezuelan crisis. the administration seems to have been somewhat pulled back from the reality there on the ground that nicolas maduro is not going anywhere anytime soon despite the fact the u.s. was acknowledging juan guaido as the interim president. >> we're about eight months into

the crisis, and all the while the strongman nicolas maduro dictator is still in power. despite the exhaustive efforts to have a choke hold on any finances that go to him. and at this point the administration is trying to find alternatives. they insist juan guaido the interim president is still their man and they're going to back hem, but it's how much more the country can take and the administration seems to be grappling with that question and not sure how to proceed. >> in the meantime let's focus on how the president will buy greenland. more "am joy" after the break. i greenland. more "am joy" after the break. now at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2019 es 350 for $379 a month for 36 months and we'll make your first month payment. experience amazing.

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our opponents, the media and the whole world will see as we begin to take further action that is the power of the president to protect our country are substantial and will not be questioned. >> there was a new world ordered that stephen miller went on national television to make a declaration about the president of the united states. you heard it there. two and a half years, miller remains in the white house. no small feet itself is one of trump's hard line and influential advisers. today "the new york times" noted miller consolidated a kind of

power unusual for an aide. "the washington post" describes miller as the one quote writing trump's immigration policy. he's a driving force behind antiimmigration agenda that includes the border wall and the muslim ban and the zero tolerance responsible for separating thousands of families. when "the washington post" asked him if he has racist views. this was his response. >> it is scandalous lie born of complete and total lack of understanding of the harms done

by uncontrolled migration to people of all grounds and born of a contempt for this nation for our law enforcement officers and for the citizens to live here. often times i may have one of a personal grudge against the administration. >> to throw out the racist word again. that's all they use for everybody. they called nancy pelosi a raci racist. she's not a racist. >> trump noticed one of his profile of his opt-ed. joining me now once again is tiffany cross and our political

consultant, jason johnson and our security analyst, frank. >> jason, let me begin with you for a moment. stephen miller and president trump coming out saying when they had nothing else to play, they play the racism card. and i know this is going to take you into a lot of different directions. is there potential risk for democrats and those that are critical for the president over reach by saying everything this administration does is grounded in racism? >> two different ways to look at this. number one, is it fair or number two, is it effective? i am going to argue to you it is not effective. i mean as with any label that's choose in public discourse, you can get to a point where it used so often where it loses its effect. we talked about polling and how enthusiastic the democratic

bases to turn out in the next election. i don't think it is a political consultant that when you are throwing out this label over and over again that it is necessarily doing anything at this point for either base on the right or the left. i would argue however it causes a lot of people in the middle when they hear it so often to tune it out. so it is not effective. >> to that point, tiffany, fair verses effective. i want to get your thoughts on this. in 2020 you got to take a racism fight to the president. you got to let voters know you are making a vote either in support of racist policy. is it fair or effective? >> it is accurate. you have to call what they think. i think that's part of the reason why we got here. in 2015 when he kicked off his campaign with a bunch of racist rhetoric, the first two years of

his presidency, he'll follow up with racist rhetoric. so i feel like now finally we are here. i understand there are maybe some people who gets tired hearing about it. tough luck. a lot of people living and enduring everyday for decades and centuries who gets tired of experiencing it. a good rule of thumb is if you are not a person of color and millions of people of color are saying a thing that's racist it is not your place to say it is not. once we make that point, we can address it with the president. nobody tried to convince his base. he won on race. right now you are trying to point out to people that you are fighting for the soul of the country and do you want this country to go towards gilead, i call it from "hand maids' tale."

>> picking up on that point, not to be literal as as political strategy, is it effective in talking about racism and making it the central issue of the 2020 race? >> for muslims and various minority groups, this is the number one issue. it is personal. it is not politics. healthcare is important, climate change is important, and hate crime. theimmigrants. this is real. this is not a game. it is not politics. for politicians, not to talk about what is our community is going through would be to service that person which is disrespectful to our community. the advice of republicans, this does not resonate with democrats. that's the republican view. that's a great place to come from privilege. we don't have that privilege.

>> immigrants are invading in this country. this is the number one issue that democrats have to call out. it is going to motivate people because they believe in the american values. this is about a fight of trump values verses american values. >> let's talk about stephen miller. he's one of the most important architects of the president's circle. stephen miller, it is his una t unapologetic po unapologetic support for the president. i want you to listen to his sound bytes in the past. >> do you feel like you and your staff are in control of events at the white house. >> i think you said the word control is a substantial under statement. >> we have a president who have done more than anyone have done.

i am prepared to go on any show to say the president of the united states is correct 100%. >> it is expected that you have people that are loyal to the president. when you hear that rhetoric, everybody just comes out and says these types of points. how detrimental to our government that you have a president who makes those kinds of bold declarations saying that his authorities will not be questioned. >> blind, unconditional loyalty a alliance is disturbing. it reflects an inability to step back and see the bigger picture. if your allegiance is to the leader and not the constitution or american values and what america stands for on a macro level, there is as problem with that. you know this debate about the heart and soul of america, what

we want america to stand for, immigration lives. it is important vital debate and whether the statue of liberty means anything anymore. whether or not my grandparents would have been allowed into the united states under policies and protocols. that's an important debate and discussions. the language and rhetoric you use to have that debate is very, very important and so what we need to do is we are spending a lot of time debating whether the president or his staff is racist or his policies are racist. what i look at is the end result and the residence that the rhetoric is having with the unstable dangerous groups. that evidence is irrefutable. >> you look at the el paso shooter or white hate organizations or white supre supremacist organizations, they are regurgitating the same rhetoric. i am focused on bad guys who are

liking the rhetoric and using it in planning their violence and that needs to stop and the president needs help figuring out how to deradicalize. >> eric, the president as we mentioned this morning waking up and tweeting out against using the hashtag crooked media. it is no surprise he's going after news organizations in this country repeatedly. undermining the country's ability to be able to access profiles like that of stephen miller and understanding how critical he has been. how do you explain the significance of something like stephen miller informulating policies of this country? >> well, if you read these two profiles, one that's done by "the washington post" and "new york times," it has been fl

influential. he writes all the president's speeches. the president does not review those speeches until he's on the plane ride where he's going to deliver them. miller has a tremendous amount of influence. these profiles also say that he systemically replace people within the hierarchy of department of homeland security and other areas with allies of his and allies of the president and he also has a practice of calling lower level employees and inviting them into meetings that their superiors are not aware of so he can pressure these lower level employees into enacting policies and procedures he wants without their supervisors knowledge. he's been able to expand his influences at these profiles to a tremendous degree. one of the things that's happening here is the president,

stephen miller, seems to be trying to expand the definition of what we would turn acceptable discourse about issues that are connected to race. they want to narrow the definition of racism so that they're able to talk about these policies and enact measures that normally saying five years ago or ten years ago we would have clearly consider racist. i have book that talks about how media outlets and political outlets -- this seems to be an example of that using strategic racism to mobilize voters in a way by enacting immigration policies. most scholars know have been on the wish list for white supremacists to organizations and people believe in white

premi supremacists. if you look at the impact of their policies and the groups that years ago were advocated for these policies, you see their roots and prejudice and racism and you see why so many people of color are concerned about. >> you broupght up a really goo point. i want to go onto jason. >> you were talking about whether it is fair or effective. i can assure you the president who used the word racism in unfairw unfair ways to be effective. he called elijah cummings racist, he called the squad racist, he called senator elizabeth warren a racist. hollywood, he calls a racist. african nation, he calls them racist and david duke. so going to your point, jason about fair verses effective. the president has weaponized the word racism.

he calls democrats socialists all the time. why do >> it did not start with donald trump. i recall it being argued that mit romney was a racist. even though what was laid out clear or earlier in our conversation, it was amazing, the honesty. i am white, i am not supposed to have an opinion on this and i am supposed to "shut up," that's the ultimate goal here. i maintain my opinion, it is not effective. we ought to talk about the actual policies and actions and the default it seems on the left that if you agree with the policies, yes. that mercedes proportionately impact the community of color that's automatically racist. it is not so. i am just simply arguing in the

marketplace of political k discourse, it absolutely. i did not say i was worry about democrats and republicans. i am talking about people in the middle. people we need to engage in this course. all of these labels really cause people to put filters up and not listen. i think it would be healthy for our overall discourse particularly for this point in time when we had historical lef levels just polarization then we go to the heart of the issue and sits the levels aside. >> jason, what word would you prefer? is there a word that you would like to use to describe donald trump's bigotry? >> no one is not saying you can't speak out because you are white. >> i would argue -- you tell me

my growing up at a trailer park in northeast texas, being the first person in my family to go to college to put myself through college and that's white privilege? >> on-site people look at you and see a white man. again, i want to stress the point that nobody told you, i understand that. >> you did. >> let me just correct what i said. let me correct what you heard and what i said. i am saying when people are saying things are not racist and you are not on the receiving end of that, i don't believe it is your place to tell people something or someone is not racist when you are not on the receiving end of it. it does seem a bit out of pocket to me and the fact when you say that and point it out. maybe you don't experience this or recognize it for what we do and the reaction that people get

everyone that even that is a level of privilege. how dare you say i can't weigh in on this. like me having an opinion of something happening in your family. no one is telling you to not have an opinion. >> if i can break in. >> i want to give jason a chance to respond. if you want to say something on the point that tiffany raise. go ahead. >> i got nothing else to say. >> eric. >> what i would say is that, people of color often have to deal with prejudice and semii cc it is important to listen to those words. i believe people of color, we are affected by things first that eventually come ts to effe

of all of society. a better way not to say that white people should not be apart of this conversation or should not have an opinion. you should have an opinion and should be engaged in the conversation. you should also pay attention to people who dealt with racism and prejudice personally. we have a perspective that's different and intimate and we thought about it more often than you have in the same way that a woman may have more insights about sexism than a man may have. it does mean that women have a more intimate novel in how it works to society and it makes to pay heed to them. one of the things we want to avoid is this kind of conflict that we have been seeing here because i think we can come to an agreement on some of these things if we acknowledge everyone's experience and also

acknowledge that some people have been thinking about and dealing with racism systematic in america in a personal and closed way and respect that. in the same way we respect people who may not be as familiar of thinking of race and talking about race and taking time to guide them down in the pack. >> let me widen this out a little bit. he's been in the hot seat defending the administration's new policies, enacting of new policies that were on the books for decades about legal immigrants coming into this country in depending on the state for all kinds of welfare benefits. listen to what kunell had to say in the week. >> so this is pardon parcel of american immigration history. we want people to come here. we do expect people to stand on their own two feet to care for themselves and not to come here

and be what is historically called as a public charge or burden on the people or the government. >> let me read you a little bit of his background. his background is trying to eliminate birthrights citizenship and questioning whether president obama was born in the united states. again, i am kind of left wondering here whether or not this administration is trying to rewrite a little bit of our country's identity and value here just because of how open and traditionally immigrants have been in all walks of life. what do you make of this and going a step further and going after legal immigrants into this country. >> i think this is all apart of it. i wish cuccinelli would -- i had more respect if they were that

honest. the thing i found interesting of a lot of these policies legal or otherwise is a lot of them applied to melania trump. yes, nobody points that out. the visa she had specifically for people of higher -- the brain genius or something they call the visa. she got that visa and everyone was wondering, what was your special skills or your intellectual insights you had to give you that visa. nobody has been able to answer that. when you look at how this administration choose to apply this policy is laser focused on the brown people of this country. >> they want immigrants to benefit americans not be a

strain on the safety net that's proved provided by the government. i want to get your thoughts on this administration broaden policy. >> i am focused on how this resonates with dangerous groups and the rhetoric is so important. we are talking about an administration that's proposing we reshape what america stands for. we need to all pay attention to that. rest assure the unstable dangers, white hate groups are interpreting this and they are hearing the language of hate. jason mentioned labels, we are hearing labels like invaders and invasions. those are military terms being used against mexicans. when we hear send them back against women of color who are americans. that's not the safe careful smart way to go about this debate. you want to have the debate on immigration, have it. don't do it in a way that

insights hate and violence and there are people saying that they believe that this president represents that kind of hate and they are aligning themselves with it and it is the wrong way to have this discussion. >> jason, i am going to give you the final words. giv give me your thoughts on the over arching theme. is it in the way that the new york times have described restrictionists or do you see it differently? >> i would say merit. the issue that we were discussing or that you brought up a moment ago was the new rule of public charge. immigration does make us strong. legal immigration makes us strong. here is the thing, we hear over and over again about people coming to this country to pursue the american dream. that's a fabulous thing. the american dream is not to come here and then to immediately go on public

assistance. to say that there is nothing racist about that. we should want the best for people who come to this nation to contribute to our country to pursue the american dream. >> before we go, i would like to make this point that the immigrants who come first of the generation of this country, they may be dependant on assistants but the offspring s of all thos kids have over paid the economic gains for this country many times over and over. jason, tiffany, dean and all of you guys, stick around. and eric and frank, thank you for joining us this morning. we'll talk about how money corrupted washington. that's next. rrupted washington that's next. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. ♪ ♪ award winning design. ♪ ♪

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infrastructure has been a popular talking point for democrats and republicans for years. >> infrastructures will help save lives. >> rebuild our infrastructures. so if all leaders agree fixing our infrastructures are essential, why are our bridges and roads and tunnels are a crumbling mess. tonight is the finale of msnbc's four part of documentary

"american swamp" trying to figure out why washington does not work for american people. joining us now is jacob soboroff. what have you learn about infrastructures not guilworking? >> reporter: presidents have talked about this time after time literally, hundreds of thousands or millions of lives hanging in the ballots every single day with their rapidly deteriorating dangerous infrastructures in this country. by talking to democrats and republicans and getting out the road and seeing infrastructures crumbling in new jersey to new york and ohio and all the way o out here to southern california. politicians are putting their portions ahead of the safety and security of the american people in order to get reelected. ken buck in the episode of the congressman from colorado tells

katy that you do not get punishpunis punished by sitting in washington, d.c. >> let me play that site from ken buck. >> there is little time to rebuild and analyze legislation to develop coalitions with fellow members because there were so much pressure to raise money. >> is this is a partisan thing? >> both sides' doing. >> raising money is not just for reelection. it is also the key to gaining power within the parties. >> you have to pay a certain amount of money. when we were in power to be a chair of a committee, ways and means appropriations, you had to raise $1.2 million for the republican party. a b community, i think it was $825,000. >> i want to pick up on that. a lot of you will be watching

this and trying to understand what in the world does that mean that you got to pay money to the chair of the committee that has this speedometresponsibilities and sight and means. walk us through it. >> it is really pathetic. we learn of the campaign finance system being legalized bribery and corruption. see that politician turn around and do bills that favorite corporations other people and individuals with a lot of money. it is the same thing in washington, d.c. elected representatives having to raise money on behalf of their parties to propose these legislations heard out by their fellow members of congress. that's the way things get done in washington, d.c. today. whether it is in is infrastruct

getting done. watch the episode tonight to see how politicians have to bend backward to raise money. >> the scary thing of what i have seen so far, this has real life consequences on people and their safety. let me play you this sound byte from this episode. watch this. >> contained in this bench here, two transmission cables, they are 12,000 bolts, transmission cables. >> if water gets into those transmission cables -- >> that was crumbling infrastructure between new jersey and new york. that's scary thought when you think of thousands of people rely on them everyday for their lives. >> not just thousands. 200,000 people go through that tunnel every single day. it is the number one priority infrastructure project in the country. donald trump, the president of the united states says he's the best builder and the greatest

builder, he has not been able to move the needle one bit of what's called the gateway project. literally to the entire northeast of the united states. during hurricane sandy, it was a complete mess. it is one huge accident away from catastrophic failure that could literally lead to significant debt in that tunnel under the hudson river. people would not know how to go or where to go and there are solutions on the table. plans proposed but donald trump is not moving forward with that plan at this time. that's just one. they're all kinds of infrastructure projects and all the community all the time. it is not just at the feet of donald trump. it is the feet of all our politicians who don't want to raise the gas tax for instance. there were simple solutions to these things that'll saver

looilives. >> jacob, my hats off to you and katy tur and all the teams that worked on it the past couple of months. incredible reporting. >> make sure to tune in tonight "american swamp," the series is tonight only right here on msnbc. donald trump sent his economic advisers on the other sunday's talk show this morning, we'll tell you what they say and what they are selling next. theyd what they are selling next you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from anyone else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist. nothing stronger. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies,

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one of the greatest performers of all time is elton john. >> in same arena donald trump pulled more people into the arena. donald trump being one of the best performers of all time. 8,000 or 9,000 outside the arena wait to get in and it happens every time the president is there. you have never seen numbers like this. he's so popular because he made people lives better and because they want to comment him on and thank you him. >> i love that he beats elton john. >> his minions always fixated on crowd sides. today we play right along.

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i will tell you what, i sure don't see a recession. let me have just one theme. we have done pretty darn well in my judgment. let's not be afraid of optimism. i think there is a very optimistic economy going on now. >> all right, there you have it folks, the trump administration economic policy in one sound bite, larry kudlow is trump's economic advisers appearing on all five network talk shows today after a crazy week and growing fears of recessions. >> back with me once again jason johnson. i want to start with you, i want to pick up where larry kudlow

leaves off. you cover the markets, do they share the optimism that larry kudlow shared in that sound bite. >> that's what happened in the bomb market and it is as signal that a recession is coming. we had the 2008 financial crisises. when investors saw the inverted yield curve, there was a massive sell-off. >> to that point julianne as well. i want to get your thoughts. larry kudlow is trying to strike optimism. i don't know anyone have a fear of optimism. are we over reacting as a society to what should be an optimistic outlook? >> not at all. he's beating -- that's what he's

supposed to do. that owns the plunge in the stock market. study from the university of chicago. most americans are living paycheck to paycheck. last year we got a report from the feds that most people could not afford a $400, let me repeat that, $400 of emergency without going into savings or debt. we have all this economic optimism at the top, gdp growth and etcetera and low employment rate. people are not feeling it. so, the president goes to new hampshire and says you got to vote for me because otherwise your 401 ks are going to go down. some people, half of the americans don't have 401-ks. what they are looking at is what's going on. i find mr. kudlow's prognosis, his cheer leading is very amusing at best.

>> let me play you the sound byte from peter navarro. take a listen at this. >> so the federal reserve chairman should look in the mirror and say i raise rates too far and too fast and i cost the economy a 4 percentage growth. that's what we should be doing. >> charlie, this is a president who lives by the stock market. he said the stock market went off the roof the day he got elected. he makes clear that he takes ownership when the stock market does well and when he loses as you saw in that sound byte, it is everybody but me. >> charlie. >> that's absolutely true and the reason for that is this is the president who does not know anything about anything.

and he's liable to say anything because he does not know anything about anything. he does not understand what tariffs are. i dare say he understand less of economics than i do. i understand less about economics than probably most house pets. that's where we are. >> jason, let me get your thoughts on this. mark sandford's criticism of the president handling of the economy. i will get to that in a second. this is as president who's running 2020 on two things, immigration and economy. if he does not have the economy going in his favor, it is hard to see the president getting re-elected. listen to mark sandford. >> does he deserve reelection? >> i would say no. he's taking us in the wrong direction. if you look at the business investment numbers the last couple of months have been cradling. nobody knows what's going to connect us in terms of trades or

nobody knows what's going to connect the white house in terms of policies. >> if he's unsuccessful, are you going to support him for president? >> yes, i am a republican. snoo >> you are still going to vote over him over joe biden. >> yes, everything is relatively politics. >> help us understand that a little bit jason. mark sandford is saying the president does not deserve reelection but he'll vote for him if he's not successful. >> very easy. congressman sandford says he may seek the republican nomination even though he knows he had zero chance. there ought to be a conversation just like an appropriate conversation where the democratic party headed. relative both sides the point he was making at the end is look, there is a lot of uncertainty so

we see some economic head winds. under any scenario, when you look at any candidates on the left, the economy, when we slow down without questions will be in better hands with the republican and opinion of sandford who does not like donald trump who says better under donald trump than any of the democrats who are running currently. >> in this perspective, the president is under taking policies that are causes o the past. the deficits have ballooned. he's done a lot of things on the issues of trades that people criticized him for. at the end of the day, what is it about his policies that makes him a republican? >> i would say a number of things. >> i am talking about economically. what are some of the things he pushed for that you would say republicans like sandford would say at the end of the day, i am still republican, the deficit is ballooning and he's favoring

free trade. >> first of all, on free trade, china is one set of issues, the other issue is re-negotiating canada, u.s. and mexico and trade agreement and the old nafta agreement. to answer your question, i would say the biggest one and biggest impact in the economy would number one be regulations and cutting regulations. recent tax policies. that would be the answer to your question. >> the tax policies would not favor the middle class and tax cuts -- hold on a second. >> taxes gone to the upper class and not generally what we favor. >> we have seen ten years of economic expansion. the stock market has hit some major highs which is great for investors. we have seen plenty of people and having plenty of stories about this. they are living paycheck to paycheck. they are getting side husbatles

just to be able to pay the bills. there are still a lot of work to be done. >> julian, is the president's economically vulnerable going into 2020? >> i think he is. the two things he is strong on has been immigration and economy. he's not doing well with the economy. the only place he polls over 42% is with the economy. his base, the folks who love him, the farmers and the coal miners and others are not getting what he promised them. he says make america great again. it is like make america broke again. the only people who are doing well are people at the top. so his base -- if they choose whi whiteness over finance, they'll continue to stick with him. many are buying into and many others are looking, i am worse

off than i used to be. the tax bill he put out there did not do a darn thing for people at the bottom. >> thank you everybody. jason, i am going to ask you to stick around as chapel hill wel. coming up it is time for who won the week. p it is time for who wn the week ♪ ♪ applebee's handcrafted burgers now starting at $7.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood

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it is that time to find out who won the week. tiffany, dean and charlie is back with me. charlie, i am going to begin with you, tell me who do you think won the week? >> the person i am going to get groovy here is the staff of wxpn and their listeners, the public radio station in philadelphia ran the entire woodstock festival in realtime, starting on thursday and ending in about 10 minutes ago with the last of jimmy hendricks. it is absolutely remarkable for me that that somebody managed to

a archive mean, between people on light towers and getting too close to electrical outlets and rain and mud, the miracle is how lucky the organizers were. i had a great time listening to this. therefore, i think they won the week. >> it's a miracle it did go off without any major glitches back then, at least none we know of. when we remember it, we think of it as a beautiful time. >> you had to stay up until 3:00 in the morning to hear sly and 5:00 in the morning to hear the who. i did that. >> i don't think we can do that nowada nowadays. charlie, i appreciate that. dean? >> to me the winner of this week like most weeks -- >> you lost. >> come on.

the winner was mike privilege, but my real winner was the greenland. now most americans know where it is. i thought television iceland. i had no idea. i thought trump wanted to buy iceland because there were more white people. no. we learned it's the biggest isla island. it's an example of climate change. it's melting. we learned that denmark owns it and it's not selling it to trump. trump, i must say, at least he's asking permission to take it. the access hollywood tape -- he wanted to buy it. he usually just grabs what he likes. >> he wanted to grab it by the glaciers. >> greenland was the big winner. >> maybe once a week we can z ask the country to try to buy a country or foreign land we don't know anything about. make it the front and center of our news cycle? >> i like it.

>> tiffany, you're next. what did you learn? >> who won the week? i think north carolina panthers erik reed won the week. he spoke out this week and this is what he had to say. >> when has jz ever taken a knee to tell us we're past kneeling? yes, he's done a lot of great work. a lot of great social justice work, but for you to get paid to go into an nfl press conference and say we're past kneeling, asinine. players coalition 2 .0. he got paid to take the bullets he's taking now. we're not having it. >> all right. that is -- those are some serious words. >> listen, look, there are a lot of strong feelings about this. and some people think oh, this is great because jay-z is joining the system to disrupt it. a lot of people don't know how much of an owner is he of an nfl team, what percentage? could he have said i'll do this

if you hire kap back? he kept the conversation focussed on the social justice issue. when you think about that, a 12-year-old kid was gunned down and no restitution. collin kaepernick chose to think of the greater good in this moment and peacefully kneel. he didn't do anything. and these very wealthy older white men, overwhelmingly trump donors. they've contributed 8 million during his reelection. they contributed to his inaugural committee. to have nfl players say no, this is not acceptable, there's a lot of blame to go around. some people say you guys still take the field. kaepernick hasn't said anything. he discoloneled people from voting. these are fair criticisms. i think for this week, i'm happy he kept the focus on social justice. >> what do you think jay-z gets

out of this? he gets brand recognition. if we were to give him the benefit of the doubt, to say he really wants to advance social justice within the nfl and doing it from inside the organization. can he do that, and what does he gain out of this? >> i think he's a strategic businessman. he's not a businessman. he's a business, man. now owknow? >> perhaps there's a play we don't see yet. but look, right now what we see him getting out of it is something to advance his personal interests more than the greater good. and this rollout was terrible. i feel like his pr team had to anticipate some of this blowback. they were heavy on the entertainment piece but light on the social justice part. they had the benefit of rock nation. jay-z wants refused to do a halftime show. i'm going to assume there's a long play.

but right now we're looking like this. >> okay. those were really good. very good. but i think i got one that tops all three of these. this one speaks to the heart of america. the winner of this week, i think, is the city of el paso and specifically antonio boss koe. this is why. you may remember the name. his wife of 22 years, his partner, his only relative, was gunned down, killed, murdered in that awful act of terrorism at the walmart. he was very worried that nobody would come out to attend his wife's funeral, and you know, in the kind of community spirit that we all know exists in every small town, every big city in this country, thousands of people turned up, double digit heat. standing in line for hours to pay their respects to margie, his wife. and, in fact, here's what npr

said. never had so much love in my life. he said on friday as he beheld the crowds, many who waited as i said, waited in triple digit heat. it was a touching moment. in some ways it shows -- >> it beats greenland. >> thank you. thank you tiffany, dean, and charlie. i appreciate it. more a.m. joy right after the break. after the break. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.

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that is our show for today. thank you for watching. a.m. joy will be back next saturday, 10:00 a.m. eastern with joy reed back in this chair. up next, alex witt has the latest. >> i've loved having you. i'll be happy to have my friend joy back as well, but you made makeup deal with my tears when you talked about who won the week. that was extraordinary. >> a lot of good people in this country. we should never forget that. >> yes. a good day to all of you from right here in msnbc head quarters in new york. it's high noon in the east. welcome to weekends with alex witt. talk show sunday with team trump doing a full court press on the economy. the message, nothing to see here. a new poll just released shows one candidate surging. should biden be