our thanks to michael, charlie, mara and tim. s that does it for this hour. "mtp daily" with steve kornacki in for chuck todd starts right now. ♪ if it's tuesday, taking on trump. biden betting big on the electability argument. what's the likelihood it will pay off? plus, president trump seems to backtrack even further on gun control and it sounds like he's

reading from the nra's playbook and here is a taxing question, why is the president talking about a payroll tax cut after the white house initially denied it? if it's tuesday, it's "meet the press daily." i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. joe biden is back on the trail as his campaign doubles down on a potentially risky political bet. biden is going all in on electability. it's clear on the campaign trail. >> we can overcome four years of donald trump. it'll be difficult, but if we give him eight, i think we'll forever and fundamentally alter the character of this nation and we cannot let that happen. we must defeat him in 2020. frankly, that's why i'm running. >> and it's even clearer in biden's first campaign ad which started running in iowa today.

>> we know in our bones this election is different. the stakes are higher. the threat more serious. we have to beat donald trump and all the polls agree joe biden is the strongest democrat to do the job. >> biden is not being subtle as you can see and at least that so far does appear to be paying off for him in the polls. new one out today from cnn, biden at 29%. that's up seven points since the first round of debates. that is nearly double any of his competitors. now that same cnn poll, 54% of democrats, a majority say it's more important to nominate a candidate with a strong chance of beating president trump while 39% say it's more important to have a candidate who agrees with their views on major issues. that's not traditionally the way we think about democrats voting in a primary. you've heard that cliche, democrats voting with their hearts more than their heads and that's probably why jill biden said this yesterday in new hampshire. >> so, yes, you know, i, you

know, your candidate might be better on, i don't know, health care than joe is, but you've got to look at who is going to win this election and maybe you have to swallow a little bit and say, okay, i personally like so and so better, but your bottom line has to be that we have to beat trump. >> of course, putting all their eggs in the electability basket comes with danger for both biden and for democrats. for biden the argument that you're the best candidate to beat trump doesn't mean you're the only person. biden leads trump by double digits in a head-to-head match-up but sarah sanders, elizabeth warren, kamala harris also lead the president by at least six points each and the person who makes the argument in the primary can often leave voters wanting in the general election. don't have to go back that far in the party's history to find ominous examples of what happens when you prioritize electability

above all else in a primary. beth fouhy and basel spimichael and susan del percio. beth, let me start with you. there's always this question of how you define electionable, you hear that biden ad basically defining it as look at the polls. joe biden does better against donald trump than any other democrat. is that really what drives that sense among democrats that he's the most ee leblthsablelectable? >> what you're doing and what you're seeing and in the crowds, there would be definite metrics to lead one to believe that but these are not normal times. what biden is doing is saying i'm the most electable so elect me. one could say, obviously his connection to president obama is there, his, you know, resilience

in the polls as you say. it reinforces his message but doesn't ever say specifically why he as president would be the best one out of this field to take that job. he is decidedly not doing that but going in on you guys like me and know me, therefore i'm electable. >> basil, so much power of that message if there's going to be any, it seems to me it depends on the psychology of the party at that moment. i'm thinking back to recent history. i can remember in 2000 john mccain in the republican primary was doing a lot better against al gore than george w. bush and mccain was out there saying republicans nominate me, i will beat al gore like a drum. he had the crowds chanting it. did not get the nomination. and, of course, george w. bush did get elected in a close election but the psychology was prioritizing something else above obvious electability. what's the psychology of the

electorate? >> to be honest i think it's different depending on your generation. if you're an older voter, particularly african-american voter what's at stake is getting him out of obvious because of racism, white supremacy and on and on and on but if you're a young voter and hear that someone like joe biden talk about working across the smile, that doesn't work for you. you are more of an ideological voter and what joe and jill biden are saying let's not have that ideological debate today but let's get him out of office so electability works for a period of time because there's strength behind it and you can push away the distinctions between medicare for all and not and the public option and not. you know, you're taking a bet that voters aren't going to care as much about about it but when you talk about older previous elections i think about 2008, because a lot of people loved barack obama but didn't think he

was electability. iowa changed all of that so once you get to iowa there could be a very different conversation ex. our favorite past election. 2004. >> yes. >> george w. bush is presiden he's launched the iraq war. it's very polarizing times and the mood of the democratic electorate was we have got to get bush out of there and that was the pitch the democratic susta establishment made to go with john kerry instead of howard dean. remember early 2004 dean had the lead starting to get endorsements and the democratic establishment said, no, this is george mcgovern. you can't nominate him. this is a wartime election. you need a war hero candidate. you need jobshn kerry and john kerry said, bring it on, i can face george w. well, you saw what happened with john kerry and the swift boat, flip-flopping, didn't win the election. what looked electable in the primary didn't translate to it in the general election >> that's probably a better

example because it's a midterm election -- it's a re-election campaign versus 2008 which was an open election if you willite. but, again, donald trump changes everything and i think one other thing to take under a midterm turnout like we did in 2018. that means that democrats are really engaged. so in a primary where we typically see either the very left or the very right turn out for their candidates, i think we're going to see more democrats turn out in this primary -- the primary goes on, we're going to see more democrats turning out so it's going to change that model meaning that moderate democrats may have more of a say and i think that's what joe biden is playing to. i think when you look at his internal pollings which i have not seen, you will see his biggest strength across everything is that he is the most -- he's most likely to beat donald trump. so as you said earlier, the national polls which is why he's

saying work across the aisle because most people want to see him get things done feeds the primary polls and vice versa. >> so that's the interesting question here. let's play this out. biden's leading nationally and been leading consistently, iowa looks closer. >> sure does. >> new hampshire looks closer. >> sure does. >> what does a world in which elizabeth warren wins iowa and eight days later rolls it into her next-door neighbor state of new hampshire. are people still calling him that? >> no. biden has said as much. if i can't punch my ticket in iowa then it's over for me. he's very blunt about that. but here's the thick, steve, i mean, you showed that clip from jill biden. she said people should swallow hard and zoet for my husband. that's his wife and that's the best she can muster for him. look, this is not normal times. donald trump changes everything. i totally get that. if you look back looking at

recent elections people want to be inspired by somebody. they were inspired by barack obama. that's why he largely why he beat hillary clinton in the primary in 2008. they were inspired by trump, republicans were. people -- those big rallies do mean something. people want to believe. they want to feel passionately and it would be a very different election this time if all that have is shunted aside for that swallow hard candidate in joe biden. >> i saw elizabeth warren drew 10,000 showing some to the extent you can use the crowd size here if we want to go with that, can you see a candidate generate what beth is talking about besides biden. >> i think warren is a great example. run an incredibly tight campaign aside from the initial gaffe about her native american ancestry which she cleaned up the other day in a good way and two beth's mountain, my mentor used to say people vote for pride or anger. if you're angry at whether george bush in 2004, donald

trump in 2020 going to the polls angry is not enough. you have to embrace your candidate and to be honest, you know, what elizabeth warren is trying to do and others are trying to do this as well is foster that type of affection for them particularly around the policies that they're promoting because she's talking about how is this going to affect your day-to-day life? i think that joe biden argument works initially. i don't know if he can push that all the way into iowa where, you know, this question about does his ticket get punched matter? but i would also say one thing not getting talked about as much as the effect he may have down ballot. if you're trying to get joe biden to be effective in some of these swing districts, that moderation actually helps him there versus some of these other places but, again, i don't know if they can make that argument effectively. >> interesting too, we haven't seen, i think, a flood of endorsements going anywhere in this race so far. elected officials speaking up and saying, look, the ticket needs to be led by so and so. a lot of seem to be taking their

cue, a lot of democratic leaders seem to be looking to democratic voters and activists to take their cues. >> we started with 20 people on the debate stage. we're going to most likely be down to 11, maybe 12, maybe even 10, so they're whittling themselves out. no reason for people to take a move. and, for example, senator gillibrand is from new york and people are still not willing to go out for her because they know it's not looking good for her so a lot are keeping their powder dry and concerned is there a lot of the -- is the progressive movement going to win or the more moderate going to win and the money is behind the moderate side and it seems like the energy is behind the progressive side. >> in terms of biden the campaign he's been running, beth, you've seen these -- the first debate performance was widely panned. the second debate performance, the consensus seemed to be it

was stronger though still some said it might not be enough. he has not been out there a ton. can he keep doing that or will that have to change? >> that's obviously what he's doing. he will follow an arc and more s the primary gets closer but, look, we are all media and perhaps the twitterverse every time biden makes a gaffe, that's it. voters are not saying that. we're seeing this consistently for months now they're staying with him and saw that dip after the first debate, but basically he's been there on top this whole time so voters are try tock tell us something maybe we're not ready to admit at this point that he's the guy. >> is one of those things that voters may be saying in the polling is biden and gaffes, such a long history and seen it have in the past such a problem for him. do they play differently? do they not mean what they used to in the age of trump? >> no, they don't. you are know, donald trump is normalized so much in our political sort of dna right now

that, no, the gaffes don't mean as much as they used to. one thing about the polls, if you look at the meta analysis of the polls bringing them all together a third of the folks support joe biden. a third sort of warren and sanders and the other is split among kamala harris, at least it used to be at the top of that so to me if you take joe biden out of the picture two-thirds polled, some kind of disrupter, ideology or lgbtq status, they want some kind of disrupter but still has to be that one candidate that brings all of that together. maybe that is warren and becomes the alternative and because she's run a very tight race versus someone who we talk about being gaffe prone, maybe she becomes that alternative but we still have a ways to go but it's possible. >> we have a way to go and the biggest thing facing joe biden, if he does slip in the polls, i don't think he recovers. i think that he has to. he is in a position he is doing everything he can to stay ahead

in the polls, obviously everyone wants to but that argument of most electable and most able to beat donald trump in swing states like pennsylvania. >> you got to look strong. >> you got to look strong, and he's got to keep that up. he has to -- if he gives up that lead, i think it's done. >> what you were saying, basil, age divide on the democratic side, the cnn poll jumped out, under 50 years old, biden's not even winning. over 50 he's up by almost 30 points and as a result he leads 2-1 just a stark divide there on age. beth, basil, susan, you're sticking around. less than a month until the next democratic debate. who wilk on the stage? who is not? who is still on 9 bubble? we'll head to the big board and break that all done next plus the battle over gun control. with the president appearing to backtrack on supporting martin baccardax -- background checks. .

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all right. welcome back. 2020 vision time, it is running out to make the stage for the third debate. those first two, we had two night, ten candidates a night jam packed stage, the criteria has changed for this lex debate. it's going to be in the middle of september. it has gotten tougher. how much tougher, let me show you what the field could look like. this is -- these are all the democrats who are out there running for president. there is a total of 23. remember, hickenlooper dropped out. mike -- we had 25 at one point running for president down to 23 who are running. now, who can actually make the stage for this debate? you got to do two things, number one, you got to show that you raised donations from 130,000 people but not just that. you also have to hit 2% in four different polls. four different polls that the

dnc has povlsenly recognized so let's show you first of all right now who has done that. who has met both of those criteria. there are ten candidates. you have he them right there. these ten will be on the stage for the next debate. the one today, julian castro, just made it because of the cnn poll we were talking about a minute ago, he hit 2%. that's his fourth poll at 2%. that gets him a ticket. he is on stage, ten candidates on stage. now, the deadline to qualify for the debate is eight days away. august 28th so who else is in the mix? realistically who has a shot at joining these anyone in being in the next debate? not many. not many. these are the candidates, the four here that you see highlighted. these four candidates have hit the donor threshold. they have hit the 130,000 individual donors, but, remember, you got to also hit 2% in four polls and guess what, jay inslee, marianne williamson

and unless they start registering in all of them, they are not going to be on the stage. tom steyer is interesting. he's hit the donor threshold and hit 2% in three polls. so this is a thing to keep an eye on. every time you see one of niece come out over the next eight days, if tom steyer is at 2% in just one of them, then he joins the stage, tulsi gabrielbard hi in two polls. she was 2% in the cnn poll today. she needs 2 in the seight days, so you have 10, maybe 11 outside shot at 12. remember, if it's only 10, that's one night. that's one stage, no more two-night affairs. 11, it's probably two nights but maybe the dnc says we can find an 11th. t the thing is it's 10, maybe 11, outside shot of 12. pay close attention to every poll you see between now and

then because they say polls don't matter. polls matter. certainly when it comes to these debates. ahead, president trump is apparently considering cutting payroll taxes and maybe a few others too. could it add up to preventing a recession? with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. don't use if you're allergic to tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya®. get clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options.

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announcer: fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero we are in very meaningful discussions with the democrats, and i think the republicans are very unified. we are very strong on our second amendment. the democrats are not strong at

all in the second amendment. i would say they're weak on the second amendment and we have to be careful of that. you know, they call it the slippery slope and all of a sudden everything gets taken away. >> welcome back. that was president trump today with some familiar talking points on the issue of gun laws, less than two weeks after he said he disagreed with the slippery slope logic. today is just the latest in president trump's apparent walk-back on gun control. his shift is also offering an out to republicans wary of unbelievable legislation. today politico reported this about ron johnson, quote, i really don't see the dynamic having really changed there much, johnson said of an effort to strengthen background checks during gun sales, which generally polls at around 90%. i don't anticipate we're going to pass a federal red flag law. democratic senator chris coons joins me and called out the president for a failure of leadership on guns. senator, what do you make of the

president and what he is saying now versus what he said a week ago? do you believe he's shifted his position? do you believe that from his standpoint background checks are now off the table? >> well, steve, this is part of the challenge of negotiating with president trump on any difficult or controversial issue. as we've seen several times in the last two year, there will be a major incident, a mass shooting, a mass casualty, gun-related event, and he will initially sound very tough, very determined, very brave about whether it's bump stocks after the las vegas shooting orbach backs after the more recent shooting saying we need to do something about gun violence and having great conversations encouraging conversations with senators of both parties just two weeks ago, now we're seeing him walk away from that. i think it's clear only with presidential leadership, only with president trump being willing to stand up to the nra, will there be enough republicans

in the senate for us to move something forward. senator toomey of pennsylvania and i are co-sponsoring a notification act that would hopefully be part of a package that would include strengthened background checks, the bill and the so-called red flag law that has been talked about and i've had conversations with all these senators in the last two weeks but at the end of the day only presidential leadership will get this done and from what you just played, steve, i'm concerned he is once again walking back from an opportunity for real leadership on this issue. >> we played that clip too. he said he's having very meaningful, his words there, very meaningful discussions with democrats. you were saying, i think the word you used was great discussion, great conversation two weeks ago. have there been ongoing conversations? has there been an ongoing dialogue between democrats and the administration since then? >> yes, i believe there was a meeting last week. i was not able to attend it at the white house with a half

dozen legislators. i know there's been outreach by other members of the administration and i got an update on that yesterday from senator manchin. my general sense they continue to explore what's possible, what's enactable but, frankly, the president has to lead here. the thing that will make the decisive difference is the president taking a point and sticking to it and saying, now is the time for us to finally strengthen background checks, for example, or to finally make a lasting difference in how emergency risk protection orders or so-called red flag laws are enacted in this country. i think we should do nothing less than the toomey/manchin bill which adds several other proposed pieces of legislation like the bill i have with pat toomey to make sure local law enforcement is notified -- if a felon tries to buy, lie and try, if you try to buy a gun as a

person prohibited state law enforcement would be notified. we need a strong package of several bills like that that would include the background check strengthening bill but frankly what's going to matter most what position the president finally takes with we come back into session after labor day and whether or not he's willing to stand up to the nra. >> where he seems to be right now, it's the extent you can discern this, it seems to be more enthusiasm on the president's part for a so-called red flag law, see again what the final readout is on background checks. but if the push from the administration is, hey, congress, pass a red flag law, if the push from republicans in the senate is, red flag law, is that something you could vote for if there were no other action on gun control or would you attach those two? would you say, i'm only going to vote for a red flag law if there's a vote on background checks? >> i think we should have a vote on background checks if at the end of the day we only pass something like the emergency

risk protection order bill, you know, i think we have to be willing to look at making some progress in the face of the nationwide tragedy of repeated gun violence incidents, but, frankly, this is also an important moment, steve, for us to take a look at the yawning gulf between the proposals of every democrat who's running for president and the willingness of this president, our current president, to take any tough stance. joe biden, who you know i support has a very strong forward-leaning position on attacking gun violence, he as one of the co-authors of the '94 crime bill took on the nra and was successful in betting an assault rifle weapons ban passed in the '90s and every candidate on the democratic side has stronger positions on background checks and so-called red flag laws and investing more on mental health making sure we do everything we can to make our community safer tan our current president so this is a special

opportunity, we should also be willing to work across the aisle to make progress. >> i'm curious what you think. you're a politician. you're surrounded. you work with politicians, politicians do respond generally to their perceived political incentives. when you look at the polling on background checks, this is something folks have been sitting for year, it's at 90% is the number in our newest poll that cut as cross -- >> it's overwhelming. >> i guess the question is, this isn't the first time background checks have sort of been on the table. i remember the senate back in 2013, it got philly bustered but they were on the table then, the polling looked the same, the predictions from background check s was any senator who blocks it will pay a price. none did. how come that doesn't seem to translate into a political price for folks who defy it. >> i would disagree.

there are a number of suburban districts in philadelphia, there are four suburban districts that were previously represented by republicans and are today represented by freshmen democrats and in all four of those districts i think positions taken by the two parties on a willingness to take some action on background checks and gun control played a central role in those elections and i think it's partly why the house of representatives is democratic controlled at this point. what i've seen in polling, steve, is that a majority of gun owners support responsible background check legislation, 90% of background checks through our system are cleared in a minute or less. this is not an overly burdensome system and it helps make sure that we keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, and in incident after incident where law enforcement officers as recently happened in philadelphia are shot at or shot by individuals who should not

have weapons, it just strengthens these calls for us to do a better job of enforcing the laws on the books and strengthening the laws on the books. >> all right, senator chris coons, democrat from delaware, thank you for taking a few minutes. >> thank you. ahead, the president's words say he's not worried about a recession but his actions suggest something else. and we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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welcome back. president trump insisted again today the u.s. is not heading toward a recession. and while yesterday the white house denied it was eyeing payroll tax cuts as concerns grow about a weakening economy, today president trump confirmed he is considering trying to reduce taxes including with a payroll tax cut. >> payroll taxes, i've been thinking about payroll taxes for a long time, whether or not we do it now or not is, it's not being done because of recession because we are legitimately if we had a cut in interest rates

by the fed, if they would do their job properly and if they would do a meaningful cut because they raise too fast, you would see growth like you've not seen ever in this country. >> as you heard there, the president saying any potential tax cuts he might endorse have nothing to do with an economic slowdown because according to the white house, that is not an issue right now. beth, basil, susan are back with us. susan, what do you make of it? the payroll tax cut, we saw this in the last administration in those early days of the obama administrati administration, that was one of the stimulus tools they tried to use cutting the payroll tax and there the president potentially interested in it here. >> a serious tool that requires serious consideration which i'm basically sure the president has not given this or anything else he said in that moment. this president just says what comes to mind. remember we were supposed to have a tax cut right before the 2018 elections? where did that come from? nowhere. he just says whatever he feels

like. there is no serious economic policy coming from donald trump. i'm not convinced he actually understands what most of what he says even means. that being said, it's that instability of him speaking in such a manner that scares the market, that scares investors, that is leading in part to where we are today. that 800-point drop last week was a big reaction to also donald trump and what he says and people not knowing if you can trust it. >> well, what about the idea, though, of a payroll tax. republicans seemingly seem to endorse that. >> doing something like this in light of the fact that the administration and republican congress pushed through that enormous tax cut at the end of 2017, they don't have too many places to go to try to go cut taxes some more. the payroll tax, of course, it's stimulus and puts money back into the pockets of middle class

people but it also funds social security, not a great idea to draw down on a fund that cannot be depleted, so -- >> a trillion dollars in debt already. >> so it needs to be thought through in a careful fashion and agree that i don't believe the president has done that. that said, there are sort of, you know, prevailing heads on capitol hill who might think that this is something that can be done in a short-term way to stimulate the economy, held off a recession, maybe when they come back in in september they will have a discussion. people who know something about economic management, in the meantime, president trump is going to blame other things. if he'll blame the fed as he's been doing or blame congress for not taking action. anything that doesn't point the finger at him at any kind of economic slipping because it's the only thing he has going for him going foo re-election. >> it's interesting, too, basil, because we were talking the last segment with chris coons did political incentives and when there are signs that maybe the economy is starting to turn in a negative direction, this is one of those issues that pops up no

matter who is president. the possibility of, hey, maybe we could do something with the payroll tax cut temporarily. put some more money back into the economy. i can see the incentive potentially for the administration and republicans wanting to embrace it. i'm curious how democrats would handle that. would they be willing to cooperate with the administration on something like that, and, also chris coons was talking about those suburban districts that flipped. you had democrats who ran on, hey, the republicans are spending too much and running up too much of the deficit. this skilled politician to explain that to a voter and put all of that together. voters, history is refleet with voters voting against their own interests so the question is who is going to be the most effective at actually selling this, and if you're donald trump and the republicans didn't his own economic adviser kudlow say in 2011 this actual supply not a good idea and doesn't work? i think despite all of that, republicans are going to get on board because they don't want to go into an election year and be able to agree that the economy

is going into recession. they want to give voters a little more money in their pocket. i don't think democrats can go and say, no, we're not going to do that but they do -- there is room for them to talk about broader issues like affordability. like job loss and the fear associated with that. there was a u.s. steel plant in michigan that's temporarily laying off 200 employees so when you start to hear more of those types of stories and there's going to be more anxiety around that, i do think there's a room for democrats to go into questions of chaos in the white house and stability, i think those types of things will resonate a little bit more. >> just this caught my eye too. put this up on the screen. i think we have this from the national association for business economics. it's a survey about -- of economists, is the economy headed towards a recession and if so when and you can see in this basically a majority, 52% say either this year or next year. 42% saying next year. a total of 52% say it will come

this year or next year. it's 77% who say it will happen by 2021 so you could just see. i think there is this broad sense out there, susan, whether among economists or laymen, nobody wishes, nobody wants a recession but you look at it and say it's been a long time since there's been. >> but that's what happens after you have a long boon like we have had. people have said we'll face some sort of recession, not only -- not based on trump's policy but based on the growth we've had for the last several years, for the last decade. usually you see something after about six years or so so that's part of the ebb and flow of where we are. the question is, is that -- are people scared enough when they hear about the tariffs and look at their health care bills and talk about recession, does that get the mood going and actually fill a narrative that scares people? and i would just like to say one other thing about senator coons said he wanted presidential leadership on the nra.

this president does not have -- presidential leadership requires a backbone. this president doesn't have a spine and does not stand up for anything even when he agrees on it whether it be immigration, health care, the economy, it's just one more element that he has shown he's just not capable of handling. >> if i can add one quick point too, when we talk about the economy and that driving voters to the polls in a typical year with a typical politician, yeah, you would have those conversations about it's the economy, stupid, but a lot of the research suggests that a lot of trump supporters aren't voting for him because of the economy. they're voting for him around issues of race and ethnicity, culture issues and so even if democrats come forward with a plan to sort of counter that and even if we can sell that the economy isn't doing as well as the republicans would have you believe so vote for us, i don't

know that that drives them to the polls as much as some of those cultural issues. >> that's the interesting question too that's been asked. if there were an economic downturn you normally see the incumbent president suffer, carter, all of that. but what i think about there, the soft trump voters, the ones who in 2016 said i don't like donald trump. i don't like hillary clinton, i'm going to hold my nose and vote for -- are those the voters that the president has to worry about. >> he does but the voters he worries about are his base voters. he mentioned that in the oval office that the people who got me into this job care very much about the second amendment and that's what he cares about. i went to president trump's rally last week in manchester, new hampshire and i can tell you the base that come out for him, they are manic for him. they love him. it's all about the red meat. it's about guns, it's about prayer. it's about saluting the flag. whenever president trump lapsed into talking about tpp or the economy, everybody kind of sort

of fell asleep. so then he he would throw out another piece of red meat. that's what glues those people to him and they will vote for him no matter what. >> so interesting to see the connection he finds those nerves that he touches in the rally and runs with it when he leaves the rally and i've seen that a number of times. beth, basil, susan, thanks for joining us. ahead, the president's latest move with russia. are we now on the verge of a new arms race? redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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i think it's much more appropriate to have russia in. it should be the g-8 because a lot of the things we talk about have to do with russia. >> welcome back. that was president trump today expressing support for russia returning to the g-8. it's not the first time he has said this. it's not the first time that he's pushed for more normalized relations with russia. but this time it is happening as there are concerns about a renewed arms race with russia for the first time in decades. the u.s. military has test add intermediate range cruise missile. the department of defense released this slow motion of the missile which fell 300 miles to hit its target. that launch was banned by the cold war era treaty signed by reagan and gorbachev in 19 7 but the u.s. pulled out earlier this month. the u.s. test comes days after an explosion at a russian missile test site, an explosion

we are struggling to gather information about but u.s. officials believe was caused by nuclear missile testing. national security analyst and former pentagon russian expert evelyn farkas joins me now. let me ask you what the president said today. the idea of bringing russia back to the g-8. what's your reaction to that? >> to remind you, steve, well not you personally but the world that the reason russia was kicked out of the g-so it became the g-7 was because russia invaded ukraine and attempted to illegally seize ukrainian territory. for the first time since world war ii, russia tried to change the borders in europe using military force. that was enough for all the other members, european, north american and japan to say guess what, russia, you're not welcome here. that was before they interfered in our elections and, of course, russia's done a lot of other

things to break international law. i would add one other quick thing which is to say if most economists were in the room they would say russia doesn't probably qualify to be in the g-7. >> in terms of there's the g-8 issue the president raised today and also this question of the imf treaty. the u.s. has formally withdrawn from that, the u.s. with the missile test and murk can i reports out of russia, this explosion might have been related to them trying to develop a nuclear missile. is this over hype or is this real, the idea that there's a renewed arms race taking place here? >> yes, steve. i think the first part of it, this is intermediate nuclear forces missile, this missile that breaks the immediate nuclear forces treaty which now we said we withdraw from it and as you said today, we tested such a treaty that would have actually been a violation had we still been in that treaty, that as you said was something that was banned under reagan, the

soviets joined gorbachev joined reagan banning if. we now have an arms race in the missile category. unfortunately, this is making things more dangerous for the europeans. probably we can manage the military threat through convention counsel force in europe. but the russians have started a new arms race on this issue as you said, we now tested a weapon and there's an open question what happens with the only remaining now arms control treaty, nuclear arms control treaty with russia and that's the new start treaty that will limits the overall number of strategic nuclear weapons we and the russians can have. 90% of all nuclear weapons are held by the united states and russia combined. the other issue that accident and the other missile that the russians are testing, that's crazy stuff because that's basically a doomsday weapon. it's a nuclear weapon fueled by a nuclear reactor. it's very dangerous. it's something the u.s. tried a

long time ago, and that betrays some kind of desperation on the part of the russians. >> where is this going then? if the russians you suspect there's a motive of desperation what the russians might be up to and the u.s. is engaging in tests, where is it all going when it comes to this issue of missiles and proliferation? >> i think it is why, as you said earlier, steve there's a danger of an arms race because there's no diplomacy as far as we can tell. you don't just withdraw from a treaty willy-nilly and don't put some other new negotiation in place. again, unless some secret negotiation which we're not aware of, we're not starting a new discussion with russia. that's what we should be doing. taking this action and testing a missile could be a prelude to negotiations. we could say to the russians do you want us to deploy this kind of missile that can strike russia much quicker the way you

have deployed these missiles in europe so you can strike our allies and the u.s. forces? they will say no. okay, let's talk about it. there is the pacific theater speaking in military terms and the chinese have these weapons. they're conventional mid range weapons and we have to deal with that, as well. but taken separately, we should have started a new negotiation with russia and certainly the trump administration should be sending all kinds of loud public signals saying they don't want to walk away from all arms control and should be renegotiating because the start treaty that puts the cap on the number of strategic weapons between us and russia will expire in 2020. we need to get it extended or 20121 rather. >> how is all of this perceived and processed and understood by putin and russia where you have the president saying bring russia back in, make it the g-8 again, you had the president in helsinki being so friendly

towards putin and the u.s. pulling out out of the inf and testing missiles again. >> i don't know whether putin fully understands what's going on. what he sees is the president as always wanting to be go soft on russia, do whatever russia wants. you know, and ultimately, of course, what, putin wants is sanctions lifted. on the other hand, putin can see very clearly under the president, there's still a very hard line against russia. >> we'll be right back. e agains >> we'll be right back s directl. and we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy.

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and that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press" daily and "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. good eveninging. >> a very happy summer to everyone out there. we have a big show tonight including a special report we've been working on about how a man who caud trump a terrible human being is now a top white house aide, beyond the hypocrisy, there are important lessons for today's politics later tonight. there's no summer vacation for hard hitting lawsuits enforcing subpoenas against trump aides. bill barr trying to shield trump person personally. is that the right role for the attorney general hakeem jeffries joins me live later in this show. chris christie making news. you may know him from his tirades and traffic revenge. you won't believe his new mission. we're tackling that story tonight with the