operate fairly without people raising issues. due process should be available to everyone and they shouldn't have to protest in order to get a fair day in court no matter what the decision. that does it for me. thank you for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for a new live edition of "politicsnation." up next, "the beat" with ari melber. this impeachment caucus you've heard about is actually growing. also donald trump in this downward spiral about the economy. stocks now shaking, plummeting with him lashing out at china and his own fed chief. a serious story with some hereby elements. and later i.c.e. shutting down a hotline because it was featured apparently with a shoutout of a netflix show. we will explain. but we begin tonight with these

steadily growing calls from house democrats demanding for real accountability for what they say are crimes by the president of the united states for obstruction of justice. 132 democrats in the house now and one independent are backing impeachment proceedings against trump. let's be clear about what's happening because a lot of other things have been happening. so take it another as the summer draws to a close. you have more than 55% of the entire democratic caucus backing impeachment probes. jerry nadler asking four other house committees investigating trump to share what they've covered as his committee decides whether they have actually filed the former articles of impeachment. support for this has grown slowly in fits and starts. because while members went back to their districts and spent time with constituents and in the time since bob mueller testified a month ago, it's now 39 more members of congress publicly coming out for

impeachment. this is our nbc tally. and that includes if you've been counting seven just this week. >> we have to finish the work that mueller didn't. >> let me start by saying this. no one, no person is above the law. that includes the president of the united states. [ applause ] >> i'm announcing my support for formerly launching impeachment proceedings against president donald trump. >> essentially, the impeachment inquiry has already begun. and i support that investigation. [ applause ] >> i believe we should begin an impeachment inquiry. [ applause ] >> all of that plus the fourth ranking house democrat coming out this week as well. that's basically one of the top people who actually is on pelosi's team. this week she was actually facing protesters at an event honoring her about this event in

san francisco. >> i need you to lead for my community i am undocumented. >> but the lifetime achievement award ceremony is quickly interrupted with people holding "impeach now" signs. >> police escorted shouting protesters out of the room. >> this is part of what democracy looks like. in a moment i'm going to joined by one of the member who's just came out for impeachment, congressman mark takano. we begin with the former mayor of new york and john flanery. viewers would be forgiven for questioning why now, what's going on, shouldn't the democrats have come out earlier? and, yet, john, whatever the timing is, i think in congress as well as in life, substance still can matter a lot more than timing. and they are showing up. what does that say to you? >> i think it tells us that trump will be impeached. i think it's a question now of

when, pelosi notwithstanding. and i think pulling together their resources not just for the legal reason but to make sure they have the strongest amount of evidence to go forward with that so that they can sell it to the public. i think if they have decent witnesses on september 17th, we'll see another bump like we did with the mueller appearance before the judiciary committee. >> yeah. i certainly agree with john that this really is a bump because the public is being given more information as opposed to william barr's spin on what the mueller report said. let'si let's be honest. and i think also that democrats, remember these are democratic representatives coming out in favor. democrats are saying at 72% are saying that they want to see impeachment inquiry. and really what that means for democrats is are you going to demonstrate that you're putting the principles above the politics. and the principles here are if not this president, then what

president. what president crosses constitutional boundaries and demonstrates that they are not upholding the laws of the land and that they have in this case kind of a substantial body of evidence that also is raising clear questions around counter intelligence, even. when we are talking about impeachment proceedings, we are not talking about criminal proceedings. we are talking about a removal from office, not going to jail. >> yeah. and you make that point, maya. and, john, this really resolves around how ideas get formalized in washington, which is a very odd process. and so al green has been pushing this. now he is a critique of trump. he has been very straightforward that he think trump does not deserve the office and is illegitimate and should be removed notwithstanding the other obstruction analysis. so he sort of was already out there, whether you call that super pro impeachment or more

left or whatever. but he's been leading this. and it seems that the rest of the party now is coming along. take a look at congressman green. >> things start with a spark. and sometimes the spark is ignored. other times the spark can cause others to become consumed with the righteousness of a cause and participate in the cause itself. >> john flannery, do you agree with that analysis? is it time to paraphrase mr. green, is it time to spark one up here? >> some of the greatest speeches that we've had including bobby kennedy's parallel to that about drips of water rivlets becoming a wave that can't be resistant. in politics the instruction is that the shortest distance between two spoints almost never a straight line in politics. but what we've seen is exactly this reaction. and sometime ago you asked me

will the truth will out? and i think this is an example of the truth willing out. the accumulation of the public and these town meetings after mueller's pronouncements and of course the number of members that are shifting within the caucus. and pelosi is looking like the odd person out. >> that's what you've really put your finger on, maya. and you've advised mayor de blasio who is also running for president, folks know. and this is a question about how democrats hash this stuff out. take conor lamb who won in a trump district, was marged trump country. where do those folks come in, and they are having this public debate too. some of this has not always been on the news every night, especially with how donald trump has been causing market problems. but here was lamb in one of these townhalls. take a look. >> what i'm asking you is whether you will join with your 127 colleagues in the house of

representatives and support an impeachment inquiry, one that is already going on. it's happening. [ applause ] >> i think we owe it to every american to find out what happened and make a judgment at the time. but it is an extremely high bar. >> that's what this looks like in these summer recesses, maya. and part of the question i guess is do you call that a trump district because trump won it in the past, or do democrats start to look at that as a blue district because mr. lamb won it and he's also facing a different kind of pressure which is are you going to step up. >> this is exactly the conundrum that democrats are facing politically. i think one of the things that's so important about representative underwood coming forward a few days ago and saying she was going to support the inquiry because she is also representing one of those districts. trump won. i think she unseated a four-term republican. six-term republican. he also came out in favor of the

inquiry. i think part of what they're doing here is saying we know that we have to be democrats because we were elected as democrats, although we have these very complicated districts. but part of it is because our constituents have to be served by leadership. sometimes leading means doing the right thing and using your leadership to explain to your constituents why you think it's right. >> and build support for that lane. stay with me. i am going to bring in as promised california congressman mark takano who just announced his -- for impeachment proceedings. the did you reach this position because you think president trump committed a crime? >> i did reach this decision. i struggled with this, and i kept coming back to the obstruction of justice, being a very serious crime.

and that i could not give him a pass on, on obstructing justice. and that no person is above the law, especially -- not especially but even the person holds the highest office in the land must be subject to that law. >> and this is where it's very interesting with what we've been discussing here. now you're someone who actually has a vote in the matter. you think he committed a crime. regardless of what the senate might, do i imagine that you're not going to tell me tonight that you have a secret plan to convince mitch mcconnell to remove the president from office. so who knows what would happen. but you think that the house should do that. your speaker pelosi has said she also thinks he committed crimes. she even said reportedly according to "the washington post" he should be jailed. so is there something here where you and she agree on that but disagree on going forward, and how do you see this going forward? do you want to convince her otherwise? >> this is not a matter of my,

substituting my judgment for speaker pelosi's. i have a tremendous amount of respect for speaker pelosi. this is about me representing my district, the 41st district california. this is about my neighbors, my voters. and, you know, being back in the district has been an opportunity for me to get in touch with where -- take a pulse on where people are. and there is a responsibility of our representative to not just represent their interest but also to be the conscience. here i think the two are merging. my conscience as a representative and what they're telling me they want. and i've come around to feeling and believing that, you know,

the heart of the matter is, is that the mueller report did not exonerate president trump, that it laid out very serious, serious evidence about the president's interference with an investigation and that it was not a trivial investigation. it was not about private conduct. it was about russian interference in our elections. and elections are the foundation of our democracy. and he must be held accountable. and i go back to, you know, to when i was a 13-year-old boy, and i watched gavel to gavel the hearings, the impeachment hearings led by peter rodino and showcased in those hearings was a new member of congress, barbara jordan, of houston, texas, and she captured my imagination as a 13-year-old boy. she actually inspired me to think about a future in

politics. and it was so important for me, a minority 13-year-old boy whose grandfather sat behind me, he sat behind me smoking his pipe reading his japanese pulp fiction. and, you know, he had lost his wife's property during world war ii because they were in internment camps, and their five greenhouses in bellevue, washington, were a casualty of that great injustice. so the constitution had failed him. but i saw before me a woman who declared that her faith in the constitution was whole. it was complete. and she really captured my imagination, and at stake here was a civics lesson for all 13-year-olds, 12-year-olds. i just got an email from someone who congratulated me for coming

out and taking this stand. she was 10 years old when she watched those hearings. so at stake today is a lesson for all young people that no person is above the law, that obstruction of justice is a serious crime, especially when it's about obstructing an investigation of great national importance. >> and that's what's interesting to hear you sort of lay it out and give us your thought process as americans are wondering whether this is over or not and what's going to dwreet speaker pelosi when she comes back. congressman takano, thank you so much. maya wiley is here with me in new york. i did want to also get you on lewandowski because that's the other piece of this when you talk about what mueller did. the and if you listen to the d.c. day trading, there was a lot of criticism. and it was i think jarring for

some to see a different bob mueller. he did look older and he was quite concise and he made it clear that he was not going to play a lot of ball. so that was the day of. but as we've reported tonight, you have now dozens more joining this, and then you're going to come back in september, and cory lewandowski, if it doesn't change, going to be publicly questioned under oath about what mueller said were obstruction. >> i think it's going to matter tremendously because i think the piece that has been missing here for the american public is exactly what these witnesses said to robert mueller because the report is so dense and because mueller was just going to stick to read my report. so, when people that err what these witnesses like cory learn skofrp ski are essentially directed to lie or obstruct by donald trump, i do think that's going to matter. and i think the mistake, and i say mistake lightly because it's a difficult decision and

position to be in is not forcing witnesses to testify publicly because the issue here in an inquiry isn't just what the congress members know, it's what the american public knows. >> right. very interesting, maya wiley. thank you as well. i want to button up that last point. we are going to do a quick 30-second break, and then i'll be right back on trump's meltdown in the economy and ordering around these companies about how they deal with china. we are going to show you the moment when his hypocrisy was exposed on light night tv. and the trump administration also shutting down this hotline after netflix. later tonight a fallback friday with michael eric dyson and a man behind shows like "the godfather of harlem." but we'll be right back in just 30 seconds. stelara® works differently. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer.

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here are two words you don't always hear when republicans talk about american companies. hereby ordered. president claiming he is hereby ordering u.s. companies who can do whatever they want under our laws to stop business with china because the president of the united states said so. the same president whose company does business with china wanting to order these companies around. and all of this is because he has been apparently in trade parliance getting punked by china slapped now with $75 billion in enter tariffs which have made the markets

nervous. trump also basically throwing his own hand-picked fed chief under the bus right now. he's asking who the bigger enemy, his fed chair who he apenitentiaried or t appointed or the leader of china. i want to turn to all of this with former executive director of the new york state democratic party. and zerlina maxwell. nice to see you both. >> nice to see you. >> what do you think on the politics here people know donald trump's done two things for the economy since he came into office. tax cut for the wealthy and a trade war with china. is seems that even trump is worried about how this trade war is going. >> absolutely because he was for a period of time taking credit for obama-era policies that actually got the economy spurred quite substantially. the but he owns this because we all are talking about it. but the fact he's been so

boastful about the tariffs and the sanctions or what have you that have actually caused real pain for small businesses and caused real pain for farmers. i remember bill clinton saying 20 years ago that the united states is only 4% of the world population. there is only so much we can make and sell to each other. think about that today where the spokesman for the national retail association said 95% of the world's consumers live outside of our borders. so what the president is doing is shutting down markets for our businesses. and that is something is that presidents do not do. so all of the blame is going to be squarely on his shoulders. >> right. and, zerlina, this is where facts can matter. you say america first or you say we're going to clean up this or that or drain the swamp. those are slogans. then you go, well, what does this actually mean. and is america first. is it helping america if the markets are down, the economy's in jitters and companies in

america often run by conservatives by the way if you look at the donation records, are saying we need to do this and he is now trying to order companies around like this is, like, left wing. >> it's a really bizarre time because you have the president who essentially ran on a lie that he was a successful businessman. and i don't know if we ignored the fact that he has filed for bankruptcy many, many times or the fact that he seemed to run many of the businesses that he was running into the ground. we ignored that. and we thought that he would be good on the economy and as basil said, he inherited the uptick that obama worked so hard to get. >> can i say something? >> sure. >> to be fair to donald trump, i know that's not popular, but he has a lot of experience in inheriting other people's. >> he really does. >> that is a fact. so i think that, you know, i think it is going to be eventually revealed and it is going to be attitudes brainwash his supporters that the economy

is fine, even if the economic indicators continue to freak investors out and to indicate that there is a looming recession. so i think that -- you know, i think that the fact that he lies about everything is going to catch up with him eventually because, again, we are talking about such a small margin of victory. so there are enough americans that are going to be able to see through that propaganda. >> and this is what's different about the economy to other issues because people who follow this closely can say, well, donald trump is wrong about a lot of things, but not everyone is going to follow it and catch up with the fact check. to your point in "the washington post" he thinks he can convince america's economy is vibrant. everyone is nervous, everyone. it shows he is aware of the problem. to zerlina's point, he wants to smooth it over. but isn't it different if people can see that their 401(k) is

smaller or if there is a recession what that looks like? >> no, that is absolutely right. and i think it's incumbent upon democrats talking about this. i actually thought cory booker in the last debate had some good language around this. if you do this language off of the old reagan you're better off now than you were four years ago which is what have you lost since donald trump has been president. they will talk about affordability that they just can't afford things. so each if you get back some money in this payroll tax, but they're talking about it now, even if you get money back in your check as a result of that, the question is what can you now afford even with this money back, and the answer is not a whole heck of a lot. particularly if you look at what's happening in michigan in the u.s. steel laid off about 200 workers. so when you start to hear things like that happening over and over again, you start to point

fingers at someone. and i think it's incumbent upon -- i believe strongly that they will do this, find a way to focus that message on donald trump. >> this goes to something from one of trump's trade advisers who is backing off. i don't know how you feel. but i have noticed that sometimes there can be a difference between talking about fighting and actually fighting. i don't know if you've ever heard the expression hold me back. >> i have heard that. >> have you heard that? >> yes. and sometimes people say hold me back which is i want to engage in the appearance of wanting to fight, but please hold me back, i don't want to fight. >> i don't want to fight. >> but donald trump claims to want to do a lot of fighting. and he claimed to want to do a lot of war with all of the implications of economic war, trade war, china, china, china, and this is new. and i want our viewers to see it. suddenly there is a crack and his own people are saying let's not trade war as it starts to cost money. take a look. >> this is not trade war.

a trade war is when two countries are fighting over lowering their tariffs. what we're fighting about with china is to have them stop stealing our intellectual property, taking our technology, dumping products into our markets, manipulating their currency and having their state-owned enterprises. >> that's a trump adviser navarro saying it's not a trade war. are we in the hold me back phase of are eget for this trade war? >> yes. i think that's where we are. and so i think that we have to remember that he said that because i think he meant that. you know, he says a lot of things, but this he meant. when you were talking about loss, i was thinking i lost my sanity the last few years of donald trump because of just the chaos and the lack of organization in terms of just being able to govern the country, making consumers and american voters feel comfortable that he has everything taken care of, that he is governing

the country in a methodical way and thinking through policy decisions. he's not doing any of that. and part of the problem is that we can see the chaos because we see the tweets. >> and to your point, there is the politics of people saying what we think about this many, but we are in a different place now because the markets are lking -- he is saying i got this and the markets are saying no you don't. >> now you are dealing with people's pocketbooks, their retirements, their ability to take care of their families. i think that those folks in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan, they should be thinking long and hard about whether or not they are going to support this president again or go with somebody different because he is not followed through on his economic promises. >> zerlina and basil, thanks to both of you. up ahead, donald trump going to this global summit with world leaders and still picking fights with nato allies. and trump's immigration chief is claiming that it is for children's protection. and later what orange is the new black has to do with this controversy over a detained

immigrant hotline. i have a very special guest, a lot more coming up. ing up i wish i could shake your hand. granted. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ trump's immigration agenda has led to some very interesting problems. consider the ven diagram that we are in right now. legal advice and a hit netflix show "meet." there was an episode of "orange is the new black" that features inmates talking about an actual thing that exists in the real world, a help line offered by a

group give legal advice to immigrants. >> i found this group online that's called freedom for immigrants. they want to help people in here. >> and i called them and i told them all about you, how cute and fly you were and how you're basically like the next kylie jenner. we have this number to call so you can get a lawyer, a free lawyer to come talk to you. >> but you have to be careful, though. if they figure out that you're using the hotline, big brother shuts it down. >> before they shut it down, and, well, that's what they were talking about in this show. but tonight many people say unfortunately we have life imitating art. we have a warning from a show that's pressent because within two weeks after that episode aired, i.c.e. went ahead and got that hotline shut down. with that number since 2013 that it would need special approval to do so. i'm joined by christina fiala, co-founder and executive director of freedom for immigrants, the group behind the

help line. thanks for being here. >> thank you. good evening, ari. >> good evening to you. it's a little bit of an odd story. so first of all, walk us through what this means what, has happened here. >> so freedom for immigrants is a national nonprofit that visits and monitors immigration detention facilities across the country. we have been running this national detention hotline cyst 2013 offering people in immigration detention a free connection to the outside world to outside resources that they don't have inside. but since our involvement in "orange is the new black," i.c.e. has completely shut down our hotline nationwide. >> so how does that work if someone's watching thinking, well, how do they have that call? >> so we have been working with the producers and writers of "orange is the new black," and we've taken them on visits to immigration detention facility dollars. it was featured in this season's "orange is the new black." and within two weeks of the

premier, the hotline was completely shut down. i.c.e. blocked it in each of its detention facilities. >> i guess what i'm getting at as you walk us through it is this is their authority over these facilities is what allows them to basically shortcircuit this? >> correct. i.c.e. has a contract with a company called talton telecommunications and it allows for exorbitantly priced hotline. and this allowed us to ensure that people in immigration detention had a connection to the outside world. now other organizations have similar four-digit extensions that i.c.e. provided them that. includes the american bar association, the unhcr, various other nonprofits providing support to people in immigration detention. but i.c.e. has singled us out by ut shhing down just our hot bind which we believe and know is a response to our work on "orange

is the new black." and let's remember i.c.e.'s decision to shut down our hotline isn't just an attack on people in immigration detention. it's an attack on our rights to free speech and transparent government. we are demanding that i.c.e. restore our hotline or we will see them in court. >> well, very interesting to see that you put it that way and that you're prepared to go to court about it. and it touches on something that's larger than the hotline, which is something we've been discussing throughout these stories which is the human rights that people have, even if they might be undocumented or legal status might be up in the air, what rights do they have under our constitution and this puts a spotlight on that. very interesting to learn all that from you. thanks for being on the show. up ahead, there is this mueller case against roger stone and prosecutors are planning to play the godfather at trial. we are going to get into that. and the g7 summit in france bracing for trump's arrival after that gaffe-filled trip

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tonight trump heads to the g7 summit in france. now he's heating with leaders of britain, canada, germany, italy, japan. they are bracing for his arrival after picking fights with nato o allies and the past year's debacles on the world stage. >> he is causing a major drama with some of the united states' closest allies. but against the canadian prime minister. to say to the guy who leads australia, this is the most unpleasant call all day. he called trudeau meek, mild, dishonest and weak. >> if we attack, japan doesn't happen to help us. they can watch it on a sony television. >> as president trump shoves his

way to the front of the line. >> pushing aside the leader of montenegro in order to get into the front. >> germany is a captive of russia. >> he took two starburst candies out, threw them on the table and said to merkel, here, angela, don't say i never give you anything. >> we've been very good to our allies. we take care of our allies. >> don't say i never gave you anything. i forgot that story. donald trump enters this summit after a lot more of that kind of stuff, some of it petty, some of it honestly funny. some of it deadly serious. we have the aides telling reporters apparently because they want somebody to know they are worried about his, quote, erratic behavior, the flipflop, the policy flop, it's all a lot and it's all adding up. consider someone who has covered these stories very closely and spent timeout in the country including around maga crowds. former fox news reporter who writes that trump has had an

absolutely awful august noting his use of racist, anti-semitic, sexist rhetoric to bully an entire foreign country. well, guess who's here. campaign carl. good evening, sir. >> hi, ari. good to see you. >> good to see you. i know you try to call them like you see them. some of our viewers might be surprised to hear someone who's been, as i mentioned, out there covering this stuff for fox news sees this blink red for donald trump. what do you see as his problems here? >> there are just so many. you don't have enough time in the day to make that list. but this particular august has been a particularly pointed one when trump's congress, when the republicans and the democrats left washington, d.c., the talk of impeachment kind of fade ad way, and we had a whole bunch of horrible things. we had two very, very serious shooting massacres. the president said we need strong background checks.

and this is not the first time that he has made that sort of statement and completely reversed himself. the business of going after greenland amounts to hostile take-over attempt by a businessman of some suspicious note. and it's essentially making an enemy of denmark which makes no sense at all. and, by the way, while the president is over at the g7, he's been advocating for the last week that, well, maybe we should get russia back to the g 8. and of course the reason russia was removed from the g 8 is because of all the hostile things it's been doing to the with estand the free world. the president seems to be supporting that. and it's gotten to the point where thank goodness august is soon to be over and congress comes back to why the april. you don't usually hear political reporters say that, but this time around it'll resume the conversation which is the other most important than the election and that is whether or not they are going to impeach the president for obstruction of

justice. >> the long-term post mueller period is a pattern. it's a pattern that moved from a minority of house democrats supporting impeachment to now a majority. and and then you have the backdrop. does he feel for some reason unbridal even facing that in these economic jitters. and i don't know what you want to call, inbridle, erratic, but take a look athis week at just some of the things he's been up to. >> any jewish people that vote for a democrat i think have chose either a total lack of knowledge or disloyalty. it's only anti-semitic in your head. so we are talking about indexing. i'm not looking to do indexing. i've been thinking about payroll taxes for a long time. i'm not looking at a tax cut now. we don't need it. you bring up background checks

like we've never never had before. the prime minister's statement that it was absurd, that it was an absurd idea wasnessm. you don't talk to the united states that way at least under me. excuse me, somebody had to do it. i am the chosen one. >> wow, ari. how does that play out in the world you've been in, in fox news folks, some of whom defend all of those things that we saw? >> i think that there are even evangelical conservatives who are going to have problems with a human being calling himself the chosen one. but let's take a look some of the things he's threatened to do. he has threatened birthright citizenship saying he's going to effectively take on the constitution and the fourth amendment and say that those who were born in this country will no longer be american citizens. these are not new things. everything we've been talking about are reruns are repeats of

the kind of lies and the kind of very unstable thinking and speaking that the president of the united states does. and we have to think about our national reputation worldwide now with the president at the g7 meeting in france, how the rest of the world is looking at the u.s. we like to think of ourselves as world leaders. the president is not leading. so what are we? the united states of america's reputation is at stake because its president is being irresponsible and violating our values and our traditions. >> you lay it all out there straight up. and some of it sounds pretty concerning. thanks for joining "the beat" tonight. i'm going to fit in a break. but when we come back, donald trump ordering people to stop doing business with china. we're going to show you some of the most embarrassing tape on donald trump maybe ever when we come back. e come back. it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey.

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trump caught without something to say, silence. to paraphrase springsteen, to face the ties that bind, you can't break the ties that bind. donald trump is tied up with an order he can't enforce against other companies. when we come back, a very special fallback friday with michael eric dyson and the great chris. you're going to be seeing a lot more of him now. -i'm not calling him "dad." -oh, n-no. -look, [sighs] i get it. some new guy comes in helping your mom bundle and save with progressive, but hey, we're all in this together. right, champ? -i'm getting more nuggets. -how about some carrots? you don't want to ruin your dinner. -you're not my dad! -that's fair. overstepped.

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joining me now is television writer, producer, and all-around creative match, chris brancato. flesch he also created and executive produced the entire netflix series "narcos." he's cocreator for the upcoming godfather of harlem, premiering in september. we're also joined by professor michael eric dyson, who's written 20 books on civil rights leaders like malcolm x and martin luther king jr. and nas and tupac.

his new book describes the music, hustle, and creativity. professor now at georgetown university. what's on your fall back list? >> i mean, people are online telling me that "scar face" is better than godfather, and i'm ballistic. but the noise -- >> the scar face fans. >> say hello to my little friend. that's good. pa key kn pacino with the latinx accent, but are you serious. you're going to put that above that? come on. he's dropping more wisdom than aristotle. marlon brando, no disrespect to

scar face, fallback with that. >> you're in this field. do you go scar face or godfather? >> well, i would choose godfather, of course, but you have to make a classic distinction. "godfather" on the one hand "good fellas" on the other. real depiction of the mob. the godfather, hyperreal based on codes of honor that don't exist. they're both incredible movies. >> what's on your fallback list? >> my fallback list is robocalls. if there's anything that will incite me to murder, it's getting a call 16 times a day. my favorite, of course, is the one that tells me i have four felony warrants in ohio. >> did you get one from the irs. >> yeah. >> i get someone in a foreign language. >> i think i get that. >> i got one. i did. i'm global now. >> it's audio spam. on my fallback list is

scientists telling us that this whole thing might be a simulation. and this is real scientists in real news. here's some articles. pointing out why, quote, we might be living in a commuter simulation. are we living in a computer simulation? let's not find out. this is by a scholar who says if our users is created from an advanced civilization, it's crucial we don't find out. this could cause our creators, our sort of future generations that are studying us as primitive ancestors to terminate this and destroy our world. >> red pill, blue pill. >> i know you're a deep thinker. is it possible that this is all a simulation? if so, and determining that truth risked ending it, would you rather not know? >> of course i would rather not

know. to project the possibility that this is a simulation, i think we spoke about that, it's quite interesting. how do we know? it's like logical positivism. don't believe anything when you talk about it. only things you can scrutinize and see things are certainly true without variability can be proved to be true. how do you know that statement is true? you keep backing yourself up. >> let me ask you this. 0 to 10, the likelihood this is a thing. this is in real newspapers, real scientists talking about this, but it sounds fanciful. zero to 10? >> sub5. >> i would say 5 because it's anyone's guess as to whether what we're sitting in is reality or not. >> 5 seems high. >> yeah. >> reality is in the eye of the beholder. >> yeah. he'll be holding it. >> i don't know, where are you

going. >> it determines how we see it. >> are you suggesting that perhaps focusing on whether this is potentially a computer simulation is a kind of a high-class problem? >> you know what? people who are on the front lines who have to get up every day, tend to survive. those who have the luxury of cynicism conform to other ext extrathe restial things. so the reality is, yeah, i think it is the kind of fanciful engagement of those at the upper end. those on the bottom end, bro, whatever it is, i got to pay my bills. it doesn't make a difference at the end of the. >> amen. i don't know about the simulations, but if they do, i hope we can clone the professor and we'll clone some of your work and we'll keep an eye on

where all the god fathers past, present, and are headed. thanks to chris brancato and eric dyson. you know what's not a simulation? "hardball" next. >> traitor don. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president trump is roiling financial markets today around the world, escalating his trade war with china and attacking the chair of the federal reserve. all this as he heads off to herald the strength of the u.s. economy at the g-7 summit this weekend in france. responding to a retaliatory move by china earlier today, the president tonight declared he's hiking u.s. tariffs on beijing, raising existing rates as well as those set to kick in next month. it comes after china announced