you cannot escape it. you can always find me on social media, instagram, snapchat and one of my staifrts, linked in. thanks for watching. deadline white house with nicolle wallace begins right now. >> hi, everyone. 4:00 in new york. america's mad king george woke up to devastating reviews of his latest turn on the world stage at the g-7 summit and stinging rebuke from a front runner to replace him in 2020 all of this on growing signs of his policy schizophrenia on trade with china may be plunging the world into a global world economic crisis. the "new york times." day-by-day, hour-by-hour, his approach to the trade war with china, the most severe economic conflict on the planet leaving much of the world with political whiplash. the "new york times" harsher,

the very stable genius in the oval office is in fact extremely unstable in word and deed. that's not a psychological diagnosis, you can make that, too, a description of his behavior and his instability is starting to have serious economic consequences. as donald trump's instability and impulsivity threaten to deprive him of his own best and strongest argument for his own reelection, the strength of the economy, former vice president joe biden weighed in on this statement, "we have even more evidence how president trump's disastrous foreign policy has left the united states isolated while the world moves on without us, rather than looking to america for vision, agenda setting and leadership by our example, our closest democratic allies sought to manage and mitigate the damage trump might do at this year's g-7. considering the fact that the white house spokeswoman is still cleaning up the president's suggestion that melania trump

and north korea's murderous dictator kim jong un are pals when in fact they've never met, it's safe to say maybe the president's critics are on to something. donald trump is a political liability himself as we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. white house bureau chief, phil rutger. senior washington correspondent for "politico." and for real clear politics and maria hinojosa, anchor and representative for npr's usa. i want to start with you as on so many days, they are cleaning up this cleanup at the white house today. >> that's right. the president is back from this whirlwind foreign trip. you described his activity abroad and making pronouncements and changing his mind again and again throughout the weekend. not all that different how he

has been behaving of late domestically, the entire week leading up to the g-7 summit was a number of flip-flops on key economic policies, beginning with the payroll tax cut idea and other steps that really mar business leaders in the united states as well as people in the government pretty alarmed about the stability of this president and his policy making. that continued obviously overseas with a number of steps. one thing that stuck out in our reporting, i wasn't on this trip but helping report on the fall-out from heren washington, the president's private discussions about vladamir putin, he was an advocate on behalf of the russian president in those private sessions with the other leaders of the g-7 group. it just further illustrated the gulf between the united states and its allies. >> i was going to read from some of your great reporter about these imagined phone calls.

you mentioned his instability. i wanted to stick a pin in that and come back. you just raised what's become the central question of the entire trump presidency. why did so many of them tell so many lies about russia. i know we all know robert mueller took a long time to decide whether a chargeable criminal conspiracy had conspired. if you go back to andrew mccabe's evidence he looked at before he opened a full field investigation into donald trump and this question of collusion with donald trump and russia, it was exactly, precisely the kind of conduct you just described donald trump engaging in at this summit. the cherry on top of the sunday was the elaborate lie he told about president trump, this easily disprovable lie about why russia had been kicked out of the g8. my question for you is what do you hear about the digging in on -- it's not even putin

friendly at this point anymore, it's putin's bidding. we have from our president advocating more ferociously, aggressively, brazenly on putin's world standing than america's what's behind that? >> that's the mystery of this entire presidency, nicolle. i don't have an easy answer. it goes beyond defending putin when he comes up. it was trump forcefully advocating on putin's behalf to the world leaders. there was a private dinner in france. the discussion veered into the importance of democracy, whether a country has a democratic system of justice should be favored to membership of the group of seven, had been the group of eight. all the leaders except for trump said yes and trump said no. michael, our reporter in europe, said it was as if trump was the

dictator himself in that setting. it illustrated how far away he was from the consensus of these democratic allies, france, britain, germany, italy. >> i will come back to your great reporting and "politico"'s great reporting. you have taken us down an important path. i want to get you on the record. what phil described, not doing a volume of lies and chaos, would have stopped washington in their tracks, if barack obama -- president obama had done what phil just described, president bush had done it, a summit at which democracy matters. behind closed doors and obviously not much of an effort made to keep it secret because it's been reported by phil's excellent colleagues. we now know donald trump

advocating more aggressively for vladamir putin. we know his body of statements about how we're killers, too. there's nothing extraordinary about putin killing this event. why isn't there an outcry? why is joe walsh the only republican running against him. why is there an american asset of vladamir putin running the country? >> it really is amazing because joe walsh, who's -- i don't think he's the most shrewd campaigner to enter a primary against a sitting president. but he talks about how the day in helsinki turned everything for him. that was an incredibly dark day for this country and many americans, who came up with, i've got my shoes on too tight statements but didn't categorically reject the president. they have not since subsequently uttered concerns. we have learned no matter what the conclusion of the mueller

investigation is, if it came out with a criminal prosecutable charge, the president lied about doing business with russia. had to have the government's permission and approval and help and engagement to complete a trump tower moscow project and continued to lie to the public about it and putin knew that all alone. he thinks of him as a once and future client and is doing his bidding. no matter what you think of anybody who was his predecessor, no matter their party, so deeply offensive to see him get up there and start lying as if putin was this master tactician that outsmarted obama and embarrassed him by violating ukrainian's rights and sovereignty and taking crimea, that it was some kind of sporting event. he just went on and on and no

stood up saying, this is an american president talking about a previous american president in anin' patriotic day. it disappeared like another day of the trump show. >> why? >> i think, as we talked about so many times at this table they long ago acquiesced and believe and put their head down and watch the tornado of next year's elections rip up the concrete above them and come out afterwards or it's too late now to clean up the mess they made like the white house has to do everyday for the president. >> how about on instability. i was a white house press secretary. the white house press secretary today had to put her name and the weight of the american presidency, the white house behind an official statement saying donald trump misspoke. melania has actually never met kim jong un. these aren't lies made by a pathological liar, they are coming out of the mouth attached

to a brain i don't know what's going on inside of it. >> they have days they come so quickly, they're relieved the press can't chase all of them. last week he made up that the log cabin republicans gave him an award. we were still following the man of michigan award he made up 10 days before and he was tanking markets within a couple days and talking about payroll taxes and flip-flopping on background checks and no one paid attention to the fact he created an award a group gave him. these things happen all the time and the white house press operation gets to, in this midst of the storm be glad people aren't paying attention to, cars floating through the air, and they don't have to look over here and talk about this building becoming unmoored. it's really that intense a storm everyday of lies and the cookie ones, you know, like melania really likes the chairman, do stand out!

no republican, when they come back from congressional recess will say anything new about any of this. >> there is new reporting, though. everyone that has spoken, a.b. and phil rucker have both invoked words usually just whispered about donald trump, his instability, impulsivity, lies not even being attacked. it's not really helpful politically or diplomatically to say melania is pals with kim jong un and gets along great. their lies serve no purpose and in the mueller investigation almost got him indicted or impeached. the way he negotiates at times involves facts that may not be facts, statements that may not have been said and episodes that may not have occurred and at times he has denied saying what he said. where are we? >> i think when you look at that paragraph you just read, it

really demonstrates the frustration in washington all the time on capitol hill and even more so with business leaders with his comments on china is that this president is not acting in good faith. he's not a good negotiator and why we haven't seen anything happen on the hill or on guns at the end of september with the government funding fight, they often don't feel the president or this administration is acting in good faith. i think there's a lot of republicans, like a.b. said, they will not come forward after this august recess and have a lot of new things to say but behind the scenes there's a great deal of frustration because nothing can get done and they don't ever know where this white house stands. >> phil, i want to come back to your colleague's great reporting on the trip. 68 minutes, a glimpse into trump's unorthodox minds, trump

claimed to have gotten two high level calls from china seeking to negotiate about the trade deal. they said they were unaware of any calls. when trump asked treasury secretary steven mnuchin to back him up, he would only say there had been communication, avoiding the ward, call. and interjected quickly monday afternoon to add communication. now, we're down to depending the definition of call is. what's going on? what are they lying about and why? >> not just calls, trump announced in the trade deal with japan that does not exist, there is no trade deal with japan that's been actually announced. in a number of other instances he claimed things the other leaders told him, including he said the most common question he was asked by the other leaders at the g7, why does the american media cover him so badly.

i really don't think any of those leaders asked him that or if they did they haven't revealed that publicly. what's going on is a continuation of a pattern we've seen throughout this presidency, trump creates an alternative reality that favors him and suits his base and makes him look like the hero. he repeats it. he tells these stories at his rallies and to reporters and embellishes and exaggerates and sometimes he lies. this is not all together new, but so many examples in such a short window of time this weekend on the world stage, as he's representing the united states at this important world summit in france of world leaders, to the people watching it, it was pretty alarming. >> we have serious reporters talking about the "body of evidence" around the pattern of lying, around the instability, around the erratic nature of policy making, around theans,

essentially waiting for the eye of the storm to pass them and assess the damage, what is the case to be made by someone with more credibility than joe walsh and the fitness he has for the office? >> the thing, to me, the $64 million question, one, what will it take to make it move? is it a double -- you know, double bolted headline in the "new york times" and the "washington post," this president has lost his mind? i don't understand. i'm trying to see -- part of what's happened we have gotten into this pattern. it's more of the same, more of the same, what will it take? leads me to the question, like, wow, republicans, really? you are prepared to squander all

of this. i think about the fact -- you know, it was the republicans who had the upper hand on the issue of immigration. this was their issue. they owned it. i remember thinking, wow, george w. bush, if he does this immigration reform? >> and mccain. >> who knows for how many decades -- of course it all changed. what motivates them to sit back? i don't like talking about this but i have to say, when you asked the question if it was obama who was doing this, if it was a woman who was doing this, if it was a person of color doing this, if it was an immigrant, it would be like a hair on fire and kind of like there's too much proximity to another white guy. he's just like us so he's going -- something's going to happen. the rest of us are saying, no. what is it going to take? you ask that question and why

everybody watches your show. you ask the question, what is it going to take? >> i'm a voracious consumer and read everything written about the white house. ever since david brooks wrote in 2017 republican senators emerged from a closed door meeting with donald trump and some thought the fact he repeated himself over and over again he displayed early signs of alzheimer's, in my brain that stuck out as something to come back to. i remember when bob corker made a valiant effort -- i worked for republicans for 20 years. they say things in private they do not say on shows like this. corker was saying -- you're smiling, you know those be true. >> donald trump does not display the confidence for this office or stability. he's now a retired senator from tennessee. i guess what i see in the reporting are undeniable proof points the instability is having

dangerous repercussions. >> the last time i was on the show with you i was holding back tears and traumatized what i was witnessing. it's like the people there, i told you, they are making the connections here. what does it take? the people were saying, we just lost 22 people because a president took on el paso. at the same time, this is again bringing it back to politics. i know we will talk about puerto rico later, but that's the only thing that gives me a sense of hope. i believe we do still live in an electoral democracy. >> we're hoping. >> that's what i think the response is, we're stuck with this. what's it going to take. what medical doctor will declare him path logically ill and unstable for sure. >> even that required a

congressional -- i want to come back to the politics of the crisis. a lot of what trump does is stupid human tricks. i'm not sure anyone's life is at risk because of what he said about melania thinking kim jong un is a great guy. the white house will clean that up and we will cover it because it's bananas. but the trade has real victims of families and farmers and really really he needs to vote for him if he runs in 2020. you wrote a smart book about the politics. what do you see as the political pressures with trump with this botched trade war with china? anna. sorry. i didn't hear you there. >> i actually think this will be a big problem for him. go to north dakota, iowa, big pork producing steak exporting a

ton to china. the question is are there real-time effects come november their bills come due and pay for the land they're renting and machines. i grew up on a farm. these are not just issues we talk about, it's people being able to afford the milk and put on their table. i do think that's something the president and his campaign team are already looking at and seeing them give different relief to farmers but the question, if it ratchets up, when does it become too big of a price for the supporters. i don't know when the tipping point is but is it the next six months? >> american farmers have become collateral damage in the trade

war a growing number of farmers say they are losing patience with the president's approach and suggesting it will not take much to lose their vote as well. >> i have always maintained the farmers know more about trade than the president does, and markets, and they know how long term this damage is. if the trade war ended tonight, that the wheat that china needs, they're buying from canada, soybeans they used to buy from us, buying from brazil. everyone is not happy this is going to change. this is generational damage. putting out a strong statement, there's new anger bursting out. the president continues to talk publicly about this. they kept it quiet through the mid terms and this spring. it's really a siren. >> i spent a lot of time in wisconsin with dairy farmers. they were nervous about this.

they wanted trump to prove them wrong during the campaign and he's proven their worst fears are justified. thank you for starting us off. when we come back, the most powerful political ad of the season is out and show you new polls that shows donald trump under water in the battleground states, all of them. breaking news this afternoon at the height of hurricane season, donald trump is pulling millions from fema's decrease relief budget to pay for his border policy. the president vouches for one of his hotels being bedbug free. yep. part of his effort to hold next year's g7 summit at his own golf course in miami, florida. coming up. up. without paying for things they don't. new plans now starting at $35. the network more people rely on gives you more. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, your plans can change in minutes.

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i'm going out a limb here. i've worked on three presidential campaigns and been part of the message operation of each one of them for better or worse. i've never seen a political advertisement with a message as searing as this one. >> i was sworn into the united states senate next to a hospital bed. my wife and daughter were killed in a car crash. lying in that bedroom, my two surviving little boys. i couldn't imagine what it would have been like if we didn't have the healthcare they needed immediately. 40 years later, one of those little boys, my son, bo, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given only months to live. i can't fathom what would have happened if the insurance company had said for the last

six months of his life, you're on your own. the facts of the matter is healthcare is personal to me. obamacare is personal to me. when i see the president try to tear down and start over, that's personal to me, too. we have to build on what we did because every american deserves affordable healthcare. >> joining this conversation, republican political consultant and fox contributor, michael singleton and correspondent. i have to start with you. i worked on three presidential campaigns and involved in every ad that went out. i have never seen an ad lake this. i don't know who made it. i'm sure you can get to the bottom of that by this time tomorrow. this is why joe biden is atop certainly the polls we saw today. why joe biden misspeaking. i say this as someone who worked for george w. bush, isn't seeing

anything out of his poll numbers from misspeaking because voters take into account the whole man, the whole story. voters don care about that, fyi. this ad shows to me, if joe biden is going to lose he's going to lose having left every scrap of himself on the field. he will rip his heart open and he's going to say, you know why i was friends with john mccain until the day he died, i'm a real bleeping person when there is someone else, donald trump, who seems to put on a different personality everyday and everywhere, and at a time when a lot of democrats seem to be playing a little bit of small ball at this point. what was the strategy behind this ad? >> well, look, i think part of the reason why an ad like this could or should work because it is so consistent with the person, right? >> joe biden, we talked about this before leads everyday with his heart for better or worse.

he's a very emotional candidate, perfectly willing to admit that, part of the reason he makes the mistakes he makes on the trail. he will be who he is come better or worse. you see some of this in the ad. secondarily setting aside the nature of it it speaks to this single issue to voters other than beating trump over and over again is healthcare. biden has bet the farm democratic voters would rather protect obamacare and build on it than to try something new, to dovetail that with a personal connection one he has been reticent to make in the past, talk so much about his own personal strategy in such an open way, particularly on television opposed to doing it when he has his hand on the shoulder of a voter something i think he is much more comfortable with, it lines up with the kind of thing that should be effective. we will see in the modern era, how much a television ad moves anybody anymore.

this is as authentic an ad in the political news cycle. >> having been involved in it, you cannot make an ad of something that doesn't exist. here's the non-add version speaking with the gentleman in new hampshire with a stutter. w r by the way, you know, i used to be a very bad stutterer. >> i know. >> i've spoken a lot about it. i'm involved with it as well. it does not define you, cannot define you. by the way, i wish you could talk more. give me your number, i'll call you. i know it's hard to talk on the phone, i know that. >> i guess, garrett, these moments -- and i aired the entirety of the exchange between beto o'rourke and the committee member there in el paso, when he was in pain, i guess i'm so starved for humanity in our politics these moments really stand out to me.

it is a different skill from being able to soar at a debate, from being able to soar behind a podium and tell prompter, to be able to talk to someone on a rope line. i'm looking for these moments. as we see them, we will roll on them, we will air them here with any democrat. what you have from donald trump, to make a point, i will show you some of that contrast. >> the poor guy, you ought to see this guy, ah, i don't know what i said, i don't remember. believe me, she would not be my first choice, that, i can tell you. man. you don't know, that would not be my first choice. >> yes, she is a low iq individual, maxine waters, honestly in the mid-60s. >> that guy has a serious weight problem. go home, start exercising. get him out of here, please.

got a bigger problem than i do. >> i don't think you will jump on any of those comments. the contrast between every person, the entire democratic field and someone, mocking a disabled journalist, african-american lawmaker and responding to a sexual allegation of rape responding that a woman wasn't his type and someone fat. >> i've come from deciding talking to voters around the country, the only unforgivable thing is inauthentic. americans weren't surprised he was a jerk. they thought he was consistent and wanted someone to break the system and that's what they got. likewise with the democratic candidates we are seeing a

different kind of autoentitiesty, a whole swath of voters turned off by donald trump. i've seen biden in a bunch of events. he's a thousand times more effective at talking to people one-on-one when he steps off the stage than any time he is on the stage. he's not alone in that capacity. a number of these candidates, the bigger skill in politics perhaps than the one that takes you further is the ability to take the one-on-one connection and give the soars speech. those candidates will have longevity. you see that so much better from biden when he's offstage than on. >> i agree. the biden campaign sees more and more people watching this process and start talking about specific issues. what better issue to talk about than healthcare. you look at place like texas where they filed a lawsuit to

dismantle parts of obamacare and what the president said and even polling indicates, a significant percentage of even republicans like certain aspects of obamacare. biden talked about let's build on the affordable care act. south carolina african-americans love obama. the idea of starting over again, start something anew not guaranteed to pass versus building on something that currently exists makes a lot of sense. i think joe biden, if you were to ask me, makes a home run. >> john boehner made this point during the debate. once you give americans something, republicans are foolish to think you can take it away. >> i live in harlem and work out in harlem and talk politics with the guys i work out in harlem. i'm always asking them, what are you thinking? a lot of people super engaged and some who are not.

i'm with you, nicolle. there is this thing about biden. i'm highly critical. one of those people who says what he needs to do to actually win is come to jesus, come clean, say, look, i've learned a lot about a lot of things, talking specifically about immigration, detention, deportation, it can be a lot of things, civil rights, women. but to own that moment, i think that coupled with what he has, this kind of, we just want somebody in, we know he makes mistakes because he's old and probably repeats himself. you know what, he's a nice guy. he's a nice guy. i agree, you can't fake that. >> the amazing things described, compelling to you. he's empathetic with people struggling. there was another one he says,

give me your number, he calls these people from the most famous to the least have gotten calls from joe biden. >> we don't see that. not like we're seeing the phone call behind the scenes. >> this is the story of joe biden because grief, people who love him say he's a super power. anyone, struggling with cancer, this is a man who had brain surgery. that entire ad leaves himself out. he's trying to show people he's at the mercy of insurance companies for his loved ones. he didn't mention his own brain cancer when he was also at the mercy of the companies. i've been there when you feel so helpless and powerless and you're so dependent. it's all compelling about other people and not his own pain. >> empathy is very critically important. people don't care about the gas.

you have joe biden, someone selfless, compassionate, not a perfect person, someone relatable. you think about donald trump, think about the current set of the republican party, compassion, out of the window, customs of behavior, morals, don't matter, ethics, none of those things matter. you have joe biden the front-runner, says, i'm not perfect. i made a share of mistakes we all have and there are things we should be able to come together on. your point on john mccain, we will have ideological differences. how do we agree on things that impact us all. i think it separates him from trump and separates him in many ways from the democratic candidates. >> hopefully at the debate he's not just pulling on heartstrings to say the insurance is a loser. >> you're out on the road with biden, right?

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puerto rico has declared a state of emergency making sure it does not underestimate the damage from tropical storm dorian going as we speak. but the potential damage from other storms may have just been made harder by the trump administration. the trump administration is pulling $271 million in funding from the department of homeland security including fema's disaster relief fund to pay for immigration space for

immigration refugees and asylum seekers from the gulf of mexico. it was sent by the california congresswoman. i wish i could say i was shocked and horrified. shocking and horrifying is sort of trump's brand when it comes to people at risk of hurricanes and danger in puerto rico, and his sort of zeal on the border. >> if i can shock you once more or maybe not shock you, if you've been shocked enough by this, there's a part of this document we have is a notification to congress about the reprogramming of this money. when dhs is justifying why they are pulling $155 million just from fema disaster relief to go towards setting up tents to have temporary court hearings for asylum seekers on the border and the reason these asylum seekers are there they've been asked to wait in mexico rather than wait

in the united states for their asylum hearings. this was used to justify this. absent new catastrophic events, dhs believes the relief balance is sufficient to support operational needs. you think about it, you're talking about catastrophic events and after that they say the disaster relief fund base that is what it is for, catastrophic events. their logic seems quite flawed and members of congress are pushing back but very little they can do at this point. right now. dhs says they have the authority to reprogram this money. there could be a lawsuit. they're taking it as of today. they notified congress in july and the transfer is occurring today. not under consideration or signing off on it, they're doing it now. it's coming out of the coffers

of fema. they will have $471 million ready for disaster relief instead of the $664 million they had set aside for this year for this hurricane season. >> you cover that department better than anybody. there's been a lot of high level firings and resignations from the homeland of department of security and the dehumanizing border policies. a few have said, enough. any indication from your reporting anyone had any pause about stripping funds from disaster relief? >> yeah. that's interesting. i can't pinpoint who it was, someone i think, a dhs senior official had some pause about this. this a document i've been waiting on a long time. there were rumors about this, the fact this transfer was happening. they notified congress in july. we thought it would be easier to get out. there seemed to be some pause and they went past the 30 day mark before they had to make

this public. maybe someone did have some pause at dhs. ultimately what we've seen time and time again, no one at dhs in a policy position wants to say know to the white house and specifically steven miller. if you say no, you're quickly dismissed. >> we learned julia's story broke after the president tweeted this. wow! let that sink in, wow. in normal times, that would be something. yet another big storm heading to puerto rico. will it ever end? will what ever end? i want to keep going. will what never end? puerto rico sticking themselves in the path? congress approved $92 billion. no, they didn't, for puerto rico last year, an all time record of its kind for anywhere in quotes. >> here's the thing, nicolle. what julia is talking about in terms of reporting, we have to

remember this. it gets forgotten. i was in mexico because i'm mexican and i'm not afraid. i don't buy into this, it's such a dangerous place. what you see when you go into mexico, we're talking about refugees. when steven miller is mentioned, there you go, his policy is to limit all refugees essentially, period. this notion that you need to have millions and millions of dollars taken from fema to go down there because there's this crisis, again, these are refugees, not people coming to hurt us, do anything, not people coming in without documentation and coming in, in other ways, through the desert, for example. they are refugees. when i spoke to them, they said to me, we don't know anything about what's happening on the other side. babies being taken, children separated, us being put into -- we're seeking refuge.

we're scared. it's important to keep that in mind. the other thing is again, the fact what was happening on the other side, el paso, tied into puerto rico, people are saying, wait, now, you will take money from puerto rico. we see they were suffering. we see you targeted them, spoke disrespectfully of them and now take money to be used to help people of puerto rico an use it to target us, where we have refugees? people are making connections. again, the big question is because we have a republican. right? you're still a republican? >> i am. >> what up with the republican party, guys? like seriously, what up? >> i want to say three things, nicolle. number one, puerto rico did not get $92 billion. they were allocated $43 billion from congress and they actually only received $14 billion as of may, number one. number two, fema, which is actually the first response to

any major disaster in our country already stricken of cash in this administration, when the hurricane hits their ability to respond is already decreased as a result of not having enough funds. number three, i really do believe donald trump is to barry gold water to the republican party. what barry goldwater cemented african-americans saying, we're done with this party. i am 100% certain you see a significant number of hispanics say, we're not voting republican anymore. >> the question i was hearing is, donald trump, in terms of his historical relationship with the black community in new york, there's proven there was discrimination there, what was up with his relationship with puerto ricans in new york city. why does he have this with puerto ricans and "new york times" at large? >> a question -- new york city today. >> thank you for joining us. coming up, two banks responding

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and we've got some breaking news stemming from donald trump's fight with house democrats. it has to do with donald trump's tax returns. capital one and deutsche bank had until 4:00 p.m. eastern today to respond to a court order on whether or not they were in possession of donald trump's tax returns, and while capital one says it doesn't have any copies, deutsche bank responded differently. they say they have quote, responsive returns for either trump, members of his family or his companies, but the names are right now redacted. joining our conversation, author of the making of donald trump and it's even worse than you think, what the trump administration is doing to america. i can't wait to hear what you name your next book, david k. johnston. it's a pleasure to have you. take me through the significance of this breaking news first. >> well, deutsche bank has been unique in loaning money to trump

and often for reasons that are difficult to fathom, which in my mind has always raised the question of were they making loans as a favor to someone else in the background say a russian oligarch or the saudi royal family, and in this document they establish that they've got either drafts or filed tax returns for trump or one of his three adult children or his company. if they have a draft, which seems almost certain, for house investigators to then compare that draft to the actual return trump filed could prove to be very interesting. >> and david, there's been so much consternation in the democratic party about this legal strategy, that nancy pelosi wanted to pursue donald trump in court to have all the facts, the strongest case before even contemplating formal impeachment proceedings. it seems like this would also be a big political victory if this decision resulted in the president's tax returns becoming available to house investigators?

>> well, yes, and there's no reason, by the way, those tax returns haven't been turned over, the 1924 anticorruption law is very clear that the returns shall be provided. nancy pelosi has been very conservative about this because the country she wanted to be along with this, and you know, when the nixon impeachment hearings began, the country was not at all with impeachment, but public hearings and disclosures from witnesses brought things out, just as we can have happen here combined with donald's crazy making up stuff behavior, which is getting worse as i predicted. >> i'm with you on all that. let me just ask you sort of the dummy's guide to donald trump's tax returns. if we see them. first of all, do you think we'll see them? >> eventually we will. whether he's still in office or not, that's another question, but eventually i think -- i'm confident we'll see them. >> what will they show? what will they confirm? >> well, they're likely to raise questions. i i think they're more beginning

point than end point about his sources of income, whether he has made more extensive use of illegal tax shelters and illegal tax practices than the "new york times" and i and others have already reported on, and his extreme aversion to anybody knowing about his business practices. i mean, keep in mind, donald trump is not a businessman in the traditional sense that you create a business to build wealth. i did that on a very small scale. he is someone who gets his hands on an enterprise, extracts all the cash that he can, and then leaves the carcass behind. that's much more the operation of a mobster than of a business person. >> let me ask you this, i have this sort of high-tech low tech analysis of what the fight for his taxes means to the president. i think people looking at international crime rings thinks he wants to hide his affinity for doing business with the russianings. i'm not sure i buy that. he was in russia last week doing putin's business with all of america's allies.

he also has a public fear about the size of things being revealed, in this case, the inaccurate and maybe smaller size of his wealth. do you think that's what's driving his mania around his tax returns? >> the number one issue with donald is the size of his fortune, let me be clear as the person who revealed in 1990 that he was worth 3 billion to 5 billion, that he had a negative net worth. donald trump has never been a billionaire. there is not a single scintilla of verifiable evidence supporting that. he's not poor by any means, but he is nowhere close to being a billionaire, and my column for d.c. report that went up at ross story because they publish a day ahead of us is about how his statements in france show that donald is a moocher, he's not a multibillionaire, and why his own words about holding the meeting of the g-7 in december at the doral show that. >> we need to have you on for longer and at the table if you're ever available. we will look for your new

reporti reporting, and we're grateful you joined us today. thanks for spending some time with us. >> thank you, nicole. >> we're going to sneak in a break. we'll be right back. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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and 10 grams of protein. boost®. be up for life™. we're out of time. my thanks to michael singleton, ab stoddard, that does it for us. i'm nicole, ""mtp daily" with my friend chuck todd starts now. well, if it's tuesday, actually, if it's any day that ends in y, it's presidential chaos and conflict, the self-dealing, the misleading, and the embracing of authoritarians that's been on full display right now and always. so how trump fatigue is a wake-up call for everyone. plus, shaken, or stirred. there's some peculiar polling in the democratic primary race and a peculiar response from the