album of her daughter graduating, getting married. time ran out for brandy on a dark hill top before she could kiss her daughter good night. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." thanks for watching. >> good morning, this is msnbc world headquarters in new york. here's what's happening right now. it has happened again, another mass shooting, this one once again in texas. frightening and mysterious because of how random it has been and we'll have all the new details at the top of the hour. the slow progress of a monster storm dorian's path toward the u.s. coastline still uncertain but it's strength overwhelming. and hitting home, the u.s. trade war with china, more tariffs going into effect

today, expected to cost you. the next chapter of this high-stakes battle. we begin with breaking news this morning. a shooting rampage has left at least five people dead and 21 injured in west texas. it started when state troopers stopped a man for failing to signal a left turn. that man opening fire and speeding off, then randomly firing at innocent people while driving through a des sa and midland. at one point he hijacked a u.s. postal service truck and two witnesses describing fleeing from the chaos while on the road. >> the vehicle that was described actually was behind us, a little less than 500 feet and we saw the flash of the guns and there was probably about two or three guns sticking out of the window. and we leaned the seat all the way back and we flew into the parking lot and we ran inside. >> going down and hearing gunshots, i took cover underneath my seat, still trying

to drive. scary moment. i have a 9 month old son. i didn't know if i was going to be able to see him again or not. >> the rampage ending when officers killed the gunman outside a movie theatre more than ten miles from where state troopers initially pulled him over. >> oh, my god. cody, are you down? i can't see. >> police have only identified the gunman as a white man in his 30s and have not revealed any potential motive. police are expected to give an update later this morning. vaughn is joining us from odessa, texas. what are you learning on the ground here? >> good morning. here, i think you've set up the scene of where it took place. a couple miles down the road is where the initial traffic stop took place in which two dps officers made the traffic stop at about 3:17

p.m. local and it was at that point that the gunman then turned and took aim at the two patrol officers, one of them being struck and is currently in the hospital in stable condition. at that point is when the gunman fled from the freeway, continuing on for several miles shooting randomly at people before ditching his own vehicle and confronting and taking over u.s. postal service vehicle. that's when the vehicle then made it's way to the movie theatre in which there's the r harrowing videos that people took on their cell phones at this unfolded in broad saturday afternoon daylight. i want to let you hear from one of the eyewitnesses. >> he gets out and starts shooting at us. my husband saw him start shooting at us and we got onto the median. we saw him get back in his car, so my husband got back on the

interstate and we started -- i mean, we passed him or whatever and we were trying to warn people that there was a shooter in back of us. we saw him coming closer and i was looking in the mirror, looking back and i could see him loading up a gun and it looked like a long black gun that i saw. and i told my husband he's coming closer, we need to get off the interstate, so my husband got back on the right side of the median and we got off and we turned back on the service road coming back to midland and he shot at us again when he passed us. and thankfully, he didn't hit us or anything. >> reporter: we are learning more here this early morning about those victims there. there are 20 that were injured, but also five dead. we know that one of those injured is a 17 month old. there's a gofundme page

that was set up. the family posted on that gofundme page that the 17-year-old, that they were on their drive when the 17 month old was hit by shrapnel and the family was left there as the young child was flown to a hospital. there was also confirmed to msnbc from odessa high school, there was a high school student whose name we do not know at this time. again, this is just about 12 hours after the shooting took place here. this is the parking lot. it's now cleared here in this early morning. the lights are off at the theatre, and just over to our left, the police vehicle that rammed into a barrier and ultimately an officer that jumped out of that vehicle and took down the alleged gunman, that scene was just taken here across the street. as you heard from the witness, mentioning the long rifle, the ar-14 style weapon.

again, this happened in broad daylight yesterday afternoon and the mail vehicle, when it came into the parking lot, it appeared to have hit another police vehicle and that's where the standoff took place. two officers were shot on site and that is where the gunman was ultimately taken down and killed on site here in odessa. >> you mentioned that the 17 month old was injured and we also know that odessa, texas is four hours from el paso. it's been less than a month since that shooting and that attack took place. what is the community feeling like right now? what does it feel like to be there on the ground? >> reporter: exactly. we've actually been in texas the last couple of days covering the conversation about gun violence here in this state. there was new legislation that goes into effect today that the state legislature passed this summer. there were laws to loosen the gun restrictions in the state and we were here because of the conversation just earlier the

august in which 22 were killed down in el paso. but also it was just one year ago outside of houston in which eight students were killed at a high school, as well as two teachers, and two years ago after 28 were killed at a church in sutherland springs. it's across the state in which these conversations are suddenly taking place at a staggering rate. >> certainly a very difficult time there in texas, vaughn hill yard, thanks for your reporting. let's bring in a msnbc contributor and the author of facen down evil, life as an fbi profiler and hostage negotiator. based on your experience and what you know so far, what do you think is the possible motive here? what could have sparked this horrific situation? >> this is going to be interesting. there's a website that follows mass shootings and it suggests that this was number 339 this year. realize, we've only had 244 days in a year, so

we're well ahead of one and a half mass shootings every day. what i think the police are looking at and the fbi and atf that will all be there is this individual was evidently heavily armed. it's described as a weapon. we know he fired a lot of rounds of ammunition, so the question is was he on the way to do something else, was this a routine traffic stop, was there any additional information law enforcement had, because we know as the dps, the state troopers pulled the shooter over, he kept his vehicle rolling, turned around with the weapon and shot out his back window, shot at the state troopers and then this situation continued. so was this something planned? was this already in motion? and, you know, we know there are a number of laws that are being looked at across the country and rightfully so, as we try to deal with this. but i read some recent statistics of guns that

were used in mass shootings and one of the statistics says that only 2% were acquired illegally. so do we need regulations and do we need a number of other things to deal with this? yes. mental health, yes. 25% of shooters have a mental health illness. but evidently there are people out there that are slipping through the cracks every day that are capable of doing this. texas was 1 million registered gun owners out there, so it's a terrible thing and this is happening there. >> clint, i want to know more about what you think might be going through the minds of the investigators who are now on the scene trying to determine a motive. when you've got a traffic stop that essentially turns into a mass shooting situation. >> yeah, and that's the thing. if there was no forewarning here whatsoever, they're going to do the normal things that we do, the psychological autopsy that we do on every mass shooter in this country. we're going to look at his or her back ground,

we're looking at their cell phones, we're looking at any social media activity. we're looking for when the weapon was purchased, the ammunition, what his employment was, what his marital situation was. trying to find out what was that switch that got flipped in his head that went from human being to mass murderer. >> how do you think the police have handled this attacker, when you have someone who is very mobile, firing a weapon, how does that impact the investigation here and the way that police respond? >> well, the challenge yesterday was when this was first reported, information was going out suggesting two shooters. as you know, because the original, the single shooter was in a gold-colored vehicle and then he ditched that vehicle and hijacked a postal truck. well, if it was a planned activity, you would think he wouldn't be hijacking a postal truck, but that was the first vehicle he

got his hands on. now the police are putting out descriptions of a gold-colored car and a postal vehicle and it had many thinking we had two shooters at the same time, until that was resolved. i think that's why we're always very careful with the information when it comes out. >> as a law enforcement veteran here, do you think that there is anything that can be done to actually stop the frequency of these shootings here? >> well, we've got to do something. there's a lot of things that can be done. we can pass universal background checks. as i said before, only a small percentage of weapons are purchased illegally. but let's tighten that up. let's look at mental health situations. let's make people responsible for the guns in our home. if you have a firearm in your home, it should be locked up. no one else should be able to get access to it. so we've got government bickering back and forth about second amendment rights. you and i have rights, too, rights not to be shot on a nice sunny saturday

afternoon. >> clint, thank you so much for your perspective there. to today's other big breaking news story, hurricane dorian, we're giving you a live look at the current conditions right now in the bahamas. the dangerous storm is inching closer to the bahamas, expected to strike there tonight. it's moving at about 8 miles an hour. that's pretty slow. the mass is 105 miles long, packing winds up to 150 miles an hour. dorian now projected to remain off shore, but likely to hug florida's east coast and the storm could bring potentially illegal storm surge to the area. hurricane force winds and heavy rainfall to georgia and the carolinas and across the southeast. concerned residents are not wasting any time in getting ready to go. >> these things can change their path and either it can miss us completely or it may pummel us. i just don't know. so i'm just going to be prepared either way. >> i prepared for this storm by

having my medication, cat food, dog food, and cash, because banks will be closed and they will be out of power, so you cannot get money out of the bank so you've got to have cash. >> nbc meteorologist is tracking the latest moves. we've got morgan waiting for the storm and mario in florida bracing for impact. janessa, to you first, any chance that dorian turns into a category five before it hits the bahamas? >> potentially with the slowdown that we're seeing out of the west here at only 8 miles per hour, that slowdown will increase the wind sheer potentially. it will only need to go 7 more miles per hour before it comes a cat five. now, this is a textbook eye that we're currently seeing across the northwestern bahamas with hurricane warnings still in place. now, the elevation of the bahamas is only about 3 meters here and with a storm surge

potential of 10 to 15 feet, this could be devastating for that island. so we are watching that very closely here. now, we just got the latest update from the national hurricane center at 5:00 a.m. here and i really want to show you here, we're going to start this call this more of an ocean track storm here. with our american models, we look at data here. the most of this is well off shore. we're only seeing one model that is forecasting from west palm beach to jacksonville potential landfall. so we still have the cone of uncertainty. but this is about a 200 mile difference potentially here. we're still going to be dealing with massive flooding and the storm surge. let's take a look at the latest track here. when you're driving your car and you make that right turn you have to slow down, so we're really going to start to see that here by monday, late tuesday, as it

starts to steer more into that ocean track. now, the big-time change that you're going to see here is this is well offshore. potentially now we could not have a landfall, but this is about 30 to 40 miles from south carolina to charleston, so we're going to be watching that closely. and the next update at 8:00 a.m. this could shift, so we're watching this very closely. we still need to be prepared. i think virginia, potentially west virginia could be in the next cone update. so still some uncertainty. >> janessa keeping track of it for us. thank you so much. we also want to turn now to grand bahamas. they're expected to take a direct hit. morgan is live in nearby nassau. are the bahamas ready for this? >> reporter: joe, they believe they are. that said, it's not making anyone feel more relief as the hurricane is approaching.

right now people have been preparing there for the past several days, not just in those islands but all up and down the bahamas because as janessa mentioned, the track of this hurricane has shifted so much over the past several days that people aren't as sure exactly where it's going to hit and that's just only adding to the level of concern right now. we do know the storm surge is mentioned as 15 to 15 feet at some places. people have boarded up as much as they can and they're told to stay indoors as the hurricane churns at the very slow pace. mean while, here in nassau the mood is slightly higher than that because we don't believe we're going to be taking a direct hit here. that said, the size of the storm and the fact that it's grown so much over the past several days means that we're likely going to be getting some of the powerful bands of the hurricane as it makes its way through. the prime minister of the bahamas issuing a dire warning yesterday, telling anyone in low-lying

areas to please get out if they can because they're simply not going to be able to be safe once the hurricane moves in because emergency responders are not going to have the means to reach those people in the areas that are at most risk right now. so all eyes go to the hurricane with its anticipated arrival later this afternoon. we're not seeing any significant changes here in nassau at this time, but that's definitely going to be changing as the day goes on. >> morgan in the bahamas, thank you so much. we want to turn to melborne, florida. we think this may be now of a coastal storm, but how are locals preparing for what could be coming down the pike here? >> the mayor of one of the cities here by told it best to me. she said we're in full preparedness mode, we're also in wait-and-see mote because of the unpredictability of the storm.

here in this area, we're about 60 miles southeast of orlando. if you look at the track that the meteorologist was showing us, they are going to feel the effects. in fact, i want to show you the front cover of the paper here, what will dorian end up doing, and it is this sort of uncertainty that has a lot of officials telling people heed the warnings, prepare, make sure you board up your house, make sure you have enough supplies. now, when it comes to our people staying or going, most of the folks i've spoken to are deciding to hunker down and wait it out. let's hear from one of them. >> refuses to leave, they've been here 30 years in the same house and they're like we've been in hurricanes since '79. and everybody was like, oh, yeah, i'll surf the waves. i'm worried about my safety but i can't abandon them. >> well, we have a car down here so why don't we just drive back to new york.

>> i've been getting my stuff all ready since june or july. >> reporter: i spoke to a city official from broward county and she said here they are postponing v postponing e evacuations until 8:00 a.m. monday. >> thank you so much. we've also got a new round of tariffs against china, taking effect today. the potential economic and political impact next. ♪ along the byway ♪ much more ♪ much more than this ♪ i did it my way (announcer) verizon is america's most awarded network and the only one with the galaxy note10 5g. right now, when you buy one, you get a galaxy note10 free. that's verizon.

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fixed. >> back now to the shooting in odessa texas. vice president mike pence as he left for the trip to poland said president trump is closely monitoring the developments from camp david. he also added this. >> the president and our administration remain absolutely determined to work with leaders in both parties in the congress to take such steps that we can address and confront this scourge of atrocities in our country. >> hans nichols is at the white house. what is the president saying that we can expect in terms of concrete steps. >> reporter: nothing from the president on concrete steps. remember the last time we had a shooting congress was just about to go into recess. what's different is congress is

going to be coming back to town so we'll see if there's any momentum. the president has hinted and then walked away from embracing some legislation on background checks. we'll see just where he is on that. he did take to twitter to say that he's been updated. i'll read that to you real quickly. he said just briefed by attorney general barr about the shootings in texas. fbi and law enforcement is fully engaged. more to follow. so we'll see what the president and his administration says throughout the day as they gather more facts and we learn more about the shooter and the circumstances that led to this tragic event. >> hans, the president is also sending the vice president to poland in order to focus on the hurricane today, dorian, of course. what is the plan now that we know that this storm path has basically turned off to the northeast and is maybe potentially just an ocean storm? >> reporter: well, the current plan is for the president still to visit fema headquarters this afternoon around noontime. he will come back to washington and then visit fema headquarters and we can expect an update.

the white house hasn't advised if that plan has changed because the storm has shifted course. the president hinted that he might be heading that way. but you talk to white house officials and they want to stay out in front of the storm, they want to give the impression and at least let the country know that the president is monitoring it. it's one of their priorities. they understand and recognize that these storms can also have political fallouts, so they want to make sure that they're on top of it. >> hans at the white house, thank you so much. and joining me now is emily larson, political reporter with the washington examiner, and scott wong, senior reporter with the hill. good morning, guys. >> good morning. >> let's remind to just a few weeks ago after the two mass shootings in el paso and dayton, of course president trump backing away from his support for expanding background checks after yet another chat with the nra president. emily, do you think yesterday's shooting will actually change that dynamic between the president and the nra? >> well, i think the bigger question is whether the mass

shooting will change anything with mitch mcconnell in the senate and whether there will be any greater appetite among republicans in congress to move forward on some mass shooting -- or gun control type legislation in the wake of another mass shooting, because that's really been the hold-up even after president trump expressed some willingness to move forward with universal background checks, after the mass shootings in dayton and el paso, he kind of turned off after that after talks with nra and also i think after seeing that there wasn't really an appetite for that with republicans in the senate. so i think that's the bigger question, not necessarily where trump might be. >> mcconnell has not responded publicly to the shooting but democrats are -- once again, they're trying to to call on him to bring to a senate vote the two gun control pieces of legislation that the house passed. do you think this shooting can

actually influence that effort? >> well, it remains to be seen. the judiciary committee was supposed to be coming back into session early from the congressional recess later this week. that was canceled because of the coming hurricane. a number of the members of judiciary are from florida and were not able to make it back to washington and needed to focus on hurricane preparations and the aftermath. so that's sort of been put on hold. i do think that it does up the pressure on mitch mcconnell and the senate republicans as congress returns from this long congressional recess. skp specifically i think mcconnell is looking at some of his vulnerable republicans, like in arizona and maine, and it really becomes for mcconnell a political calculation about whether, you know, guns becomes a central issue of the 2020

campaign and whether his senate majority is at risk. and so i think these are some of the things that mitch mcconnell and certainly donald trump are looking at. >> we also want to take a quick look at the tariffs. we're six and a half hours into the new tariffs on china that are now in effect, and we pulled some of the numbers from our nbc nightly news report last night to show you exactly what the breakdown is. take a listen. >> this new round of tariffs is expected to hit u.s. consumers especially hard. according to one estimate, the cost for the average american household, $1,000 a year. it's a 15% import tariff on over a billion dollars worth of goods from china. the list, 122 pages long of every day items like food, diapers and sporting equipment. >> you've got food, diapers, sporting equipment and of course president trump claiming the trade war has been, quote, very successful here. what is his basis for saying that going into the most important shopping season of the

year? >> well, i think that he's thinking that hopefully these tariffs are putting some pressure on china and that it would be a major political win for the trump administration if this pressure gets china to come to the table and they're able to come to some sort of trade agreement, especially one that could bring manufacturing jobs back into the united states. but as we go into the shopping season and the 2020 election, the question will be whether consumers really feel the hit from these tariffs. the expected estimates from -- you mentioned $1,000 in that report and i've seen estimates from $400 to $1,500 could be the expected impact, which sort of cancels out the impact of the tax cut. so we'll see if consumers feel that at the ballot box. >> the math certainly isn't great for consumers and scott, you've been reporting that

republicans are fearing a backlash against trump in the suburbs. how concerned are republicans that the economy and tariffs may actually hurt them among these key suburb an voters? >> this has been really republican central argument of 2018 and will be the central argument of 2020, about why president trump should be reelected. he is claiming and his allies and economic advisers are claiming that the economy is good, and therefore you should stick with this president. if things start to take a turn, if the trade war with china impacts the stock market, it's already impacting consumer confidence, 9% down in the month of august, biggest drop since 2012 as you know. that will cause some real concerns in addition with all of the volatility that the president is bringing on international issues and certainly flip flopping on issues like guns and taxes, i

think consumers and voters want some consistency from the president and they haven't received that. >> scott wong and emily larson, thank you for joining us early this morning. appreciate it. the shifting hurricane dorian, up next where it appears the storm is now heading. plus, a day after that devastating gun rampage in texas, find out about the new laws making it even easier to carry guns in public places in texas. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

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we are back now with the latest on hurricane dorian. it's a slow-moving category four storm, now threatening four states in the southeast. you've got hilton head, south carolina where a city councilman is worried about wind damage, helping neighbors board up their homes, and then over in savannah georgia, fishermen are concerned about a disruption to their peak tourism season. >> it's going to come in here and mess us up. this is our best year and september and october is about the best year for shrimp. so if this comes in here, it's going to mess us up. >> meteorologist janessa

westbound webb is with us. >> forecasting right now, we're not going to potentially see a landfall here with the center of the eye. but we do have an outer eye and then you have those rain bands. those still could cause major damage and the major floodings, so even though we're not going to see the center of the eye hit land, we still are going to have a big-time event here. let's check out the latest here. we do have sustained winds of 150 miles per hour. i think with the latest update you're really going to notice the slowdown. we are talking about monday into tuesday this storm system slowing down out of the northwest to, i think, about 3 to 2 miles per hour. that's walking pace for some people here. so it's going to slow down and you're going to have the heavy wind sheer, the major flooding and the storm surge. it's still going to hit coastal areas of florida, so orlando, jacksonville, you're really going to see the storm surge

potentially up to 5 to 10 feet here with the winds. we still have that major hurricane phase. so as it makes its way across georgia into north carolina, it still stays well offshore. with this next update we're really going to be watching charleston into north carolina as well, because if this moves here, just 15 to about 20 miles, then you do have a landfall. so still the uncertainty and still those four states really need to be getting prepared. >> vanessa webb keeping us posted. thank you so much. so another breaking news story we're covering this morning, at least five people have been killed and 21 more injured after a shooting rampage in west texas. a man opened fire on state troopers during a traffic stop, then randomly fired at innocent people while driving through odessa and midland. the shooter hijacked a u.s. postal truck and the chaos ended in a shootout outside a movie theatre where officers killed tp

gunman. several 2020 democratic presidential candidates voicing their frustrations over yet another mass shooting. >> don't know what the motivation is, do not yet know the firearms that were used or how they acquired them, but we do know this is [ bleep ]. we do know that it is time for politicians to act. the american people are sick and tired and horrified by the never-ending mass shootings that we see virtually every week. >> yesterday's shooting comes as a set of new gun laws go into effect today that loosen restrictions for gun owners in texas. they allow begun owners to openly carry in places of worship like churches and synagogues and allow licensed gun owners to store weapons and am oh in locked vehicles on campuses, as long as they are

out of view. this is the state's sixth mass shooting that has left at least five dead since 1996. we're also watching hurricane dorian just hours away from striking the bahamas. what we're learning about the way it shifted course and who is now in the path of this storm. plus more breaking news this morning, another horrific mass shooting sparking calls for gun reform, how a rift in the nra could help the case.

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we have breaking news this morning. you're looking at live pictures in poland, a ceremony marking the 80th anniversary of nazi germany invading poland. vice president mike pence is on the ground. he landed in war saw earlier this morning. president trump was originally scheduled to make this trip, but he opted to stay back here because of hurricane dorian. after poland, pence heads to iceland, the uk and ireland. we're also covering the breaking news out of texas, the latest mass shooting reviving the debate over gun control and gun laws, and questions about where the president really stands. the role of the nra once again in focus as we look back on how the president's push for background checks has evolved in recent weeks amid conversations with its chief executive, wayne lapierre. >> i'm looking to do background

checks. i think background checks are important. i don't want to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people or people with rage or hate, sick people. i'm all in favor of it. we already have very strong background checks, but we're going to be filling in some of the loopholes as we call them. wayne agrees things have to be done also, and we have areas where we can close -- and for instance, we did fix it last time. we have a lot of background checks right now. >> joining me now is progressive commentator and radio talk show host and ceo of american majority and a former speech writer for president george w. bush. good morning, guys. >> good morning. >> so we know the nra talking points, the arguments on the second amendment, that people kill people, not guns. that's their position. they blame mental illness and we don't know the full story behind the shooting.

we know the bigger picture, another mass shooting in america. they keep on happening. these nra talking points, are they losing effectiveness? we're working with one important person, the president of the united states. >> i do think that there's a conversation to be had. i would agree with trump on the fact. and you find a lot of gun owners like myself that would agree, obviously those with mental health, but those looking at criminal background checks and i think there are some loopholes that can be closed. the biggest conversation is this, the rights of 99.5% of the american people and the right to bear arms going to be removed because of a half percent of people that clearly there's something mentally wrong with them. and i think the conversation that has to be had is where do you draw the line and that's the concern of gun owners, hey, a lot of us are legal, upstanding, outstanding citizens who have the right to hunt and also for

self-defense. where do you draw the line and not take away the rights, but at the same time i do think there's a meaningful conversation to be had. >> does that argument actually stand when we have a mass shooting every few weeks, oftentimes in the same state with the case of texas here? people are dying. >> no, i understand that. i think the thing that i'm also looking at is the bigger picture. the fact of the matter is when you look at the situation where people are taking guns and shooting other innocent people, there is an issue. the question is, and i know you're going to say this is an nra talking point, is it the gun or human being. i think we've got a much bigger issue in culture and society in which we have removed the value of life. i think there are a lot of things we have to address on a large picture culturally. you had beto o'rourke just the other day saying, yeah, we are going to take your guns away and people are going wait a minute, hald on here. >> beto o'rourke wants to institute a buyback program for assault weapons.

that is where he stands on the issue. >> that's right. >> we have an epidemic of violence of innocent people getting killed across the country in public places where they ought to be able to just live. so i wonder how does the republican party and the president of the united states and silent mitch mcconnell, who so far hasn't said anything and we'll give him time to make that statement, how can all of these issues actually be reconciled here on a policy front? >> well, i think this is going to be the debate between now and the november 2020 elections and will these elected officials, republicans feel the heat or is it something that will fade away. the question is going to be, will they feel enough pressure to actually do something, and you alluded to this point, the nra is in trouble internally, will there be pressure from the nra to not or will they be disfunctional. but the much broader picture is the fact that there's ruffle 100 million gun owners in america and the question they will look

at is how do we actually figure out how to not take away their rights and at the same time prevent these moving forward. that's the great question, where do you draw the line. and i have to tell you i'm not sure i have the clearest answer at this point. that is the debate for the next 18 months. >> so as we wait for a clear answer on this front, is this something that the democrats are willing to wait for? >> no, i don't think so. and to ned's point about mental illness, we're already starting a mental illness narrative and there has been no significant proclamation of mental illness. evil is not a mental illness. and let's talk about the nra because they seem to be at the center of this debate. this is the beginning of the end for that organization. 74% of the nra members are actually for universal background checks on all gun purchases, even though the nra itself is against it. 61% of nra members believe that if you lose your gun or your gun

is stolen, you should by law report that to law enforcement. but the nra as an organization is against it. 90 plus percent of americans are for universal background checks as well. the president of the united states, the chief flip flopper seems right now to be against it. so i don't understand why we continue to have this debate about doing something as it relates to gun reform in america. and let me correct the narrative. it's really not gun control. we also have the freedom of speech in the united states of america, but if you use that speech to injure or harm or kill somebody, then that speech can get you arrested. well, we don't call that speech control. we have a real issue as it relates to our gun culture in the united states of america and the truth is the nra for decades has given cover to political organizations and politicians and rendered any reformation ineffective and they need to go. >> ned, do you think the

president has the guts to pressure mitch mcconnell here to pass legislation that would essentially put more pressure on the nra if the nra is not buying in? >> well, i think the i think t what ra rad just said about background checks. i understand the right to own guns but the fear i have is you have a universal gun registry, which is completely unacceptable to a lot of people. the fact of the matter is i think there are reforms that can take place. and thises down, i hate to say this, political expediency. trump has to be careful he does not alienate voters in three states, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania pennsylvania, and i remind he won those 46,000

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billions of people across four states on alert, hurricane dorian. it's inching closer. the category 4 pro jibjected to the becomes later today, packing heavy rains, winds and rip kirnts. let's bring in gary scanned ler, the head of fema. we know billions will be impacted by this hurricane but we don't know where it will be going or make landfall. how hard is it to plan for a storm like this? >> it's very difficult at the federal level but they're on high alert anyways here in washington. they will be coordinating with all of the different regions that fema has and with different governors in different states. and that's why normally on a show like this, we say make shire you're listening to your local officials, mayor or

governor. they keep people abreast of what's going on and plan they're making to make the right decisions. >> you have so much experience in emergency management here. what is the best advice for officials trying to be prepared in this uncertain environment. >> as they do every three hours and as you do here on msnbc, they see what the hurricane meteorologists come out with. but they're trying to keep people out of harms way, making sure they're prepared as possible. especially with this storm, it doesn't seem anyone knows where it's going to go at this point. make sure they are continually prepared and they have the resources they need to respond when the event does happen. >> you're saying no such thing as being overprepared then? >> no, not as such overpreparedness. often people don't evacuate, because i was talking to my friends in florida, and they never want to evacuate. so i vie to get them to go.

and you have at-kiss communities, whether it's disabled or seniors or other, but the safety system needs to focus on those that need extra help so the citizens that are healthy are not a burden on the system, which is important. >> are there last-minute preparations in carolina going on in your experience or have they been ready since the start? >> they've been ready. both governors in the carolinas have been through this unfortunately many, many, many times. individuals are doing some things to their own houses or evacuating and things like that but north carolina and south dakota are prepared. >> gary scanlon, thank you as always. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up on our breaking news story this morning, police i trying to figure out what caused a traffic stop to turn

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