>> all right, mike allen live in washington, d.c. thank you very much as always. we're going to be reading axios a.m. in just a bit and you can sign up at a newsletter by going to axios.sign up.com. >> "morning joe" starts right now. on my orders, the united states military has begun strikes against al qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the retaliatory regime in zblans after 2014, we will support a unified afghanistan as it takes responsibility for its own future. >> our brave troops have now been fighting in the middle east for almost 19 years. >> and afghanistan very much in the news this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, september 9th. with us we have political writer for "the new york times" and

name political analyst nick. the president of the counsel on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haas. and author of the matriarch, susan page is with us. seep yore write at "politico," jake sherman, an msnbc contributor. and journalists and residents at georgetown university school, foreign service, alize labbott joins us. we're learning more about the secret meeting the president learned on twitter that it was cancelled. the meet would have happened yesterday just days before the 18th anniversary of 9/11. the president says he canceled the meeting after the taliban claimed responsibility for a bombing in kabul last thursday that killed an american soldier and 11 others. trump tweeted in part what kind of people would kill so many in

order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? they didn't. they only made it worse. if they cannot agree to a ceasefire during these very important peace talks and would even kill 12 innocent people, then they probably don't have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreementny way. u.s. officials tell nbc news that the discussions about the meeting with taliban leaders began about a week ago. president trump first decided to hold a meeting with the group and the president of afghanistan in washington. but later came up with the idea of hosting them at camp david. as "the new york times" notes, it would have been one of the biggest headline grabbing moments of his tenure, was put together on the spur of the moment and then canceled on the spur of the moment. the usual national security council process was dispensed with. only a small circle of advisers was even clued in. national security adviser john

bolton vehemently opposed meeting with the taliban. and bolton had an ally in vice president mike pence. officials and people familiar with the matter tell nbc news that among the concerns of administration officials who oppose the meeting was that it might take place around the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. pence argued at one point that such a meeting could send the wrong message to members of the u.s. military who have fought and been killed by the taliban for years. one senior administration official said. another concern among some administration officials was that elevating the negotiations to a meeting with the president at camp david might later embarrass trump if a deal fell apart. meanwhile, secretary of state mike pompeo went on all five sunday talk shows to defend his peace efforts and the decision to host the taliban at camp david. >> in the end, if you're going to negotiate peace, you often have to deal with some pretty

bad actors. there have often been discussions about war at camp david. there have been discussions about peace there as well. been some pretty bad actors travel through that place throughout recorded history. it was an important place. it's a place where we thought we could convince all the leaders of afghanistan, president ghani and his team, as well as the taliban, we could convince them to begin to head in a direction that would create better conditions on the ground in afghanistan. >> does this mean talks are off completely? >> so for the time being that's absolutely the case. >> if you're the taliban conditions have been worsening and they're about to get worse. we're going to make sure that everyone in the region understands that america will always protect its national security interests. >> richard haas, there is so much to be concerned about with this proposed meeting put together at the spur of the moment. just comes up with an idea a week ago and then he's going to have a camp david summit with,

you know, people who have been killing americans now for 19 years who are savaged s to thei own people, do untold things to the women of that country. are the absolute worst of the worst. but stepping back from that, just who donald trump wanted to take to camp david, we could look at the way he has planned summits with kim jong-un as well as the taliban and others and this is a man who put far more foresight and far more planning into his beauty pageants and club golf tournaments than he has -- and i'm dead serious, dead serious -- put more planning and forethought into his beauty pageants and club golf tournaments than he is the

most important diplomatic meetings that the united states could be facing right now. >> look, there's so many ways to go at this. one is it shows the president's unlimited and totally misplaced confidence in summitry and the power of his own personality in these one-on-one settings. secondly, it reveals that there is no process in this administration. there is no serious policy-making process with the various departments come together, weigh intelligence. but most of all, this just represents a fundamental misreading of afghanistan and the taliban. the taliban are not a negotiating partner. the only thing you can negotiate is not peace, is american withdrawal. if that's what you want to do, fine. but let's not confuse it with peace. what we're simply doing is leaving and selling out our partners. what we need is not a negotiating strategy with the taliban. what we need is a consulting

strategy with the afghan government. and the question ought to be how long do u.s. troops stay? we could probably live way reduction in troops. what kind of long-term military and even more important economic and diplomatic support we give them. the goal ought to be that afghanistan never again becomes a launching pad for terrorism against americans. but there is no peace to negotiate given who the taliban are and given the fact that they continue to enjoy sanctuary out of pakistan. that is the history of these types of wars. >> the irony that a politician who campaigned on strength has proven to be such a patsy for vladimir putin and for kim jong-un and now the taliban trying to desperately cobble together a meeting with the

taliban to try to make peace with them at camp david, again, with no foresight, no planning, no tragic guidance from anyone else. because, of course, he didn't go through the process because there is no process inside the white house. >> well, you're exactly right, joe. i mean, i think president trump saw the deal shaping up, he wants a deal with the taliban because he wants to fulfill that campaign promise of getting out of afghanistan. so he actually if you remember last month in bedminster he met with his aides. they were starting to talk about it then. and trump basically said, listen, i negotiated with kim jong-un, i negotiated with putin, i negotiate with president xi of china, i can do this better. and so that's when he decided, you know, after talking on that meeting on september 1st just before labor day to bring everybody together. but, again, as richard said,

it's more about the pageantry, it's more about getting them in the room. and then i think he got cold feet. and it wasn't only the u.s. that kind of canceled the meeting. you know, president trump might have put the final stamp ton with those tweets where are which i might kalil's team was caught flat footed. i think it complicates things for them. they didn't even know about the meeting. but the taliban wasn't thrilled about coming because they didn't want to be coming to meet with president trump before a deal was signed. and afghan president ghani didn't necessarily want to be here when he's not even negotiating with the taliban. so as you both -- as you and richard both said, there's no vision, there's no strategic plan and certainly no consultations with the government. and it makes it more difficult now because i think, you know, zal kalil sad's team wants to make this deal. president trump has tweeted before and it hasn't really

meant anything, they keep talking. so i think you can exact they will pick up talks again. >> and nick, there's always a tweet for every occasion. every occasion. and this is no exception either. of course let's put it up. while this was from 12, january of 12, while barack obama is slashing the military, he is also negotiating with our sworn enemy, the taliban, who facilitated 9/11. if only barack obama could have imagined that seven years later on the eve of the 9/11 anniversary donald trump would be escorting the taliban to camp david to talk peace while undercutting our afghanistan

allies would have been unimaginable. and of course this comes the same week we find out that he, i believe, illegally steals money from the pentagon budget and from facilities for the children of our men and women who defend this country across the globe for a political project. again, it's a tweet for every occasion. and this donald trump is trying desperately to leave afghanistan to the taliban, al qaeda, and isis. >> well, joe, peace talks happen with your enemies and not with your friends. so having the talks is not a problem in the first place. what we saw with the tweets this morning or last night is that the state of the reason for pulling out of these talks was not the actual reasons. so he's saying it has to do with the energy of americans and these attacks in kabul, i believe. it's actually having do with problems on his own team and divisions on the actual deal.

it's the creating of a moment as opposed to sitting back and thinking is the moment worth having and a good moment to have some and the assistance no. >> all right. the u.s. air force is launching an investigation after a report by "politico" revealed at an international guard crew has occasionally stayed at president trump's scotland resort while refueling at a small commercial airport nearby. "politico" reports that the house oversight committee septembersent a letter to the pentagon in june. apparently they have spent $11 million on fuel at the press wick airport, the closest airport to trump turn berry. fuel that would be cheaper if purchased at a u.s. military base. they also say the airport

provide the cut rate rooms and free rounds of golf at turnberry for u.s. military members. it raised the possibility that the military has helped keep trump's turnberry resort afloat. according to "politico," the property lost $4.5 million in 2017 but revenue went up 3 million in 2018. the air force says it doesn't appear any regulations were broken, but it will review all guidance pertaining to selection of airports and lodging accommodations during international travels. jake, this report, i mean, the bottom line is, they've never taken a route like this before and temperature makes no sense if it's chooper eap doer it els the way they've been doing it. >> put this together with vice president mike pence staying at the president's resort in ireland last week when he was in ireland for official business. the point is the vice president's office said the

president requested that they stay there. later, the vice president's office said that they made this decision on their own. now, the fact is people do what donald trump wants whether he says it explicitly or not. we know that from the last three years of this presidency. people know what he wants and they do it. number two, all of these things that keep coming up, the staying at the presidential resort, vice president mike pence staying at the presidential resort, donald trump pitching the g7 at his resort in miami in doral, put these altogether and democrats are going create or trying to create a convincing case that the president is profiting off the government. all of those things put together put into an impeachment investigation, impeachment inquiry could be a powerful tool for democrats. that's what they believe at this point. remember, as congress comes back, democrats are inching closer and closer to launching a large impeachment probe and they're going to vote this week on defining that probe. so you're getting much closer to

this impeachment investigation and all these things are coming out are all going to be a part of that. >> well, suzanne page, i mean, just let's line up the facts just from the past couple of weeks what we've seen. we've seen, of course, the scottish resort losing money. so the air force takes this route that takes american taxpayers a lot more money. also, the nearby airport losing money. the only airport that's close to this place. of course the air force comes and they make -- they make a ton of money off of it. we saw the same thing with ireland. the hard-working american taxpayers paying for mike pence and his how many -- how many people entor wrath wurage? and then the president at g7, he

was talking about taking next year's g7 to doral, it's losing tons of money. it wouldn't be very hard for members of the house or the senate to put together a list of -- of abuses this president's made. look at the emoluments clause. >> here's a question that democrats are considering. there were some congressional democrats surprised that the allegations of cooperation with the russians and obstruction of justice in the special counsel's inquiry failed to galvanize a majority of north koreans suppo -- americans to support impeachment. if you take this to looking at the house in more familiar forms of corruption, of things that

make an official richer, plus the hush money payments during the campaign, that's another avenue that democrats are increasingly going down. does that persuade public opinion in a way that the russia investigation does not? it does go to the heart of the one of the strongest points that donald trump made during the 2016 campaign, that was those chants of drain the swamp because i think when americans look at some of these -- some of these actions that have benefited the president and his family and his business, that looks pretty swampy to them. >> yeah, and it -- the swamp levels, mika, just keep rising. you can look at these specifics, and, ken, what we've seen over the past few weeks, his resort in ireland or his resort in scotland, whether it's the trump hotel, whether it's doral, again, all of these things losing money or most of them losing money. and you can add it up.

and also, again, look at the foreign policy. it goes back to how you can explain everything in his foreign policy or just about everything as it pertains to money, whether it's russia and his son saying that before in the white house they got most of their money from russian investors. or, my gosh, saudi arabia. why does he have such a -- have some right. >> -- close relationship with saudi arabia when the rest of the world has turned away from saudi arabia. and the assistannswer is very c. not only did they put on that outrageous display for them when he visited saudi arabia, did you donald trump bragged, he bragged in the 2016 campaign, that the saudis had given him hundreds of millions of dollars. so it all comes back to money. >> it sure does. >> and in these cases -- in these cases, it's causing the taxpayers, it's causing

hard-working americans who were struggling to make ends meet every month. they're the ones who are paying this billionaire, lining this billionaire's pockets with more tax dollars whether it's from the united states air force or whether it's from mike pence's entourage or whenever it's from. americans are struggling and donald trump's just using his position and power to get richer in a way that violates the constitution. >> at some point, the conclusion can be drawn that this presidency is beyond misguided, beyond ill informed, and has nothing to do with actually working for the united states of america. at some point, we might get there. still ahead on "morning joe," republican presidential candidate mark sanford joins the conversation. why he's challenging donald trump for the party's nomination. plus, new polling on the democrat side. how joe biden stacks up against his closest rivals.

>> it's getting tight. >> yeah x. and is the trump administration slow walking aid to ukraine for political purposes? uh, interesting. a lot of coincidence there's. we'll have that story ahead on "morning joe." but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. make ice.d be mad at tech that's unnecessarily complicated. from the day you're born but you're not, because you have e*trade, which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade. when didwhen i needed ton? jumpstart sales.

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? >> it was so close it almost didn't happen. you didn't think was going to happen. rafael nadal is the men's 2019 u.s. men's open champion after defeating ma dead vef. this gives him his 19th grand slam singles title. nadal took the first set after 62 minutes and capitalized on his lead to take the second. but the 23-year-old medvedev rallied hard to capture the next two sets to force a fifth. nadal came back starting off in the last set with a 3-2 deficit to claim the set and the u.s. open champion title. it was an amazing match.

this puts nadal just one grand slam title short of roger federer's record of 20. it was so great. they seemed to enjoy each other after the match and congratulate each other '. was beautiful. >> it was wonderful, yeah. also, look at this. bianca claimed victory over tennis great serena williams saturday to win the 2019 u.s. open. this, too, was an amazing match. after losing the first set, williams came back 5-1 in the second set to even the score but still came up short losing 7-5. andres cue at just 19 years old, she was so calm, cool, and collected is the first teen to win a major since maria sharapova 13 years ago. >> both of those matches -- >> they were so good. >> both of the finals of the u.s. open were incredible this

year and you challengers, underdogs just play extraordinary against two of the best players not only in the world today, but two of the best players ever. but let's talk about yesterday. medvedev, what a fighter. and he just stayed in there. >> incredible. >> it looked like it was over halfway through the third set. and even then the stocore didn' really indicate just how well he was playing. there are were some extraordinary volleys in the one was special, one for the ages. >> absolutely. i thought he was tanking in the third set. he then obviously rallied, came back. the combination of the power game and the finesse game, this would be the golf equivalent of booming 320 yard drives and then finessing chips and putts. both of these guys had an extraordinary game. there was and added benefit yesterday which gave me a good excuse to turn off the giants game. and i was desperate for that.

and that was really, really welcome from my point of view. >> i guess it would be. and elise, if you look at andreescu -- >> she was so cool. >> there were so many thingstor blown away by in her performance. she was powerful. i think it's one of the few times in serena's career who just the best of the best that she actually faced snab womebodt was as powerful. you could tell going into the first set and into the second set serena didn't expect this power. and yet, this young 19-year-old showed extraordinary finesse and just seemed nonchalant at times by all of it. >> she did. and the kind of steelliness that you'd expect from serena williams, sme she played really a flawless game. there were kind of two set points that she lost when she was serving for the match, but,

i mean, she really smoked her. and i think -- and she even kind of apologized at the end. said i know you guys wanted serena to win. there was all this pageantry and symbolism about sear renrena co back and she's had problems with the media and trying to fight for nike and women's equality and pay and everything. and the think the idea that this 19-year-old beat her was a little bit of a disappointment to the crowd. but at the same time insniepiri that these young people are coming up. and i think serena is gracious and looking at these young players coming up saying i'm disappointed to lose but you're doing great if the is inspiring for the young players. >> but you look at the two young players, medvedev and andreescu,

not only both of them were playing against the best tennis players in the world, they were also playing against that crowd. which, again, i've got to say in both cases the young challengers just, they were steely. didn't let the crowd get to them and did their business. it was an extraordinary weekend. >> bianca, had when she was playing, if she lost a shot or won a shot, there was the same reaction, she would just keep going. and then if you doubt her mother, absolutely no reaction. they are the coolest, calm, cool people i've seen. last night, russia fired upon and seized three ukrainian vessels and their crews in the black sea. in response, this july ukraine seized a russian tanker but not the crew. late last week, russia finally agreed to release the ukrainian crews in a prisoner swap. that exchange also saw ukraine

release among others a former russian commander suspected of playing a role in shooting down malaysian airlines flight mh-17. are you following? responding, president trump tweeted that it was, quote, very good news. congratulations to both countries. it all comes amid reports that rudy giuliani's ongoing efforts to push ukraine to investigate hunter biden's work in the country as it relates to joe biden's post diplomatic efforts. and reports that the trump administration is slow-walking a much-needed military aid to ally ukraine meant to counter russian aggression. and it appears "the washington post" has made a convergent connection. writing in a new piece by the editorial board, quote, some suspect mr. trump is once again catering to mr. putin who is dedicated to undermining ukrainian democracy and independence.

but we're reliably told that the president has a second and more veenal agenda. he's attempting to force ukrainian president saturday linski to intervene in the 2020 u.s. presidential election by launching an investigation of the leading democratic capped date joe biden. mr. trump is not just soliciting ukraine's help with his presidential campaign, he's using u.s. military aid the country desperately needs in an attempt to extort it. i've heard this a number of times, joe, that there is pressure being put on ukraine to cough up information on hunter biden. you think of the stephanopoulos interview in the oval office where the president said he would take help from the foreign government if it helped with the election. you see it happening in many ways, and he does it in realtime openly. >> well, rudy admits -- >> rudy's trying to go. >> rudy's been trying to shop

around and they both have been critical of ukrainian government not playing ball with them. but, richard, mika and i have heard for some time now, heard over the summer that the trump administration was shaking down this pro reform ukrainian government and basically saying you're not going to get the military aid that you need to defend against russia unless you help us dig up dirt on hunter biden. anybody that's actually followed the timeline knows that they can't dig up any dirt on hunter biden because the conspiracy theory, listen to me trump supporters, look at your google machine, the conspiracy theory, the timeline doesn't work in the conspiracy theory. so they're basically doing vladimir putin's bidding once again. and, once again, not giving ukraine what they need to defend against vladimir putin.

because ukraine won't make up gar fwhath they c garbage that they can use for 2020 campaign. >> it's interesting, joe, one of the departures in this administration's foreign policy, one that people like me thought was a good one, was unlike the obama administration this administration was prepared and then went ahead to provide ukraine with defensive articles which they desperately needed to deal with russia. now you've had the prisoner swap, another step in the right direction. so why in the world would we hold off in giving them further snaid you've just had a free and fair elections. zul linski came in, he's going in the right direction. this is the sort of thing we ought to be holding hearings about. this is outrageous. ukraine deserves our help. the only chance to calm things down. we're never going to move things

in crime. it's in putin's own interest to cut a zbleel we saw jake sherman, the prisoner exchange, manned people believe that helps move talks forward between russia and ukraine. but if donald trump continues to basically being aiding and abetting vladimir putin's efforts, then by keeping the military aid away from the ukrainians he only strengthens putin's hands in those negotiations. >> yeah. and, listen think there there's going to be a lot of voices on capitol hill and in washington over the next couple weeks now that people are back and focused. and there seems to be a familiar pattern to these episodes where trump's allies on capitol hill, people like lindsey graham will go to him and tell him a decision is wrong headed and he might reverse. but there has been a vacuum over the last couple of weeks with very few people in town and things quiet with congress away. but to richard's point,

democrats might find another target here for another set of investigations. but there is some concern in the democratic party that this is white noise and it's people saying the same thing over and over again more interference from russia. democrats worry that this is not something that will stick, that this is something that they've been saying for the past couple of years and it's not something that has any -- any effect on anything that the president does or that the electorate believes. >> so, elise, let's move away from the political realm and actually look at geopolitics and look at the impact this has on ukraine's ability to defend itself against vladimir putin. donald trump -- again, republicans, i mean, what are republicans going to say when they return to town about donald trump withholding military support for ukraine who is trying to defend itself against vladimir putin and possible

further invaftision of their country and trump withholding it because they won't dig up dirt on his political enemies at home? >> well, that's the irony, joe. i mean, originally the u.s. had some -- wanted to defend ukraine from the obama administration but had a lot of concerns about the way the government was operating. they weren't fiscally responsible. their economy, they weren't doing enough reforms in economy, political reforms. now you have the president coming in and doing all of the things that he's doing, working with the imf and trying to get ukraine's house in order and they're presenting themselves as a stronger partner to the united states. and this at the very time that the u.s. should be bucking up ukraine to stand against vladimir putin and russia. the president has failed to invite the president to -- to the united states for a white house visit. and this is going to weaken ukraine's hand against russia.

a process that the u.s. was trying to midwife. the u.s. was trying to work with russia and ukraine to try to get some kind of peace going. and when you talk about the republicans, what are they going to say in i'd like to think that they'll be angry and they'll say that the u.s. can't do this to ukraine. we should be supporting the ukrainian military. but when you see so many of the other things that the president has done and the republicans have failed to step up, the impunity with which the president does this is really, you know, as much as the president's actions i think the problem is really with the republicans that are not forcing his hand. >> and mika, as elise said, this appears to be, if you look at everything that's happening right now in ukraine, the most pro reform leader in that country's young history. and so that's exactly the type of leader that the united states

should be embracing to push back against vladimir putin's continued aggression toward that country, toward commercial airliners that fly over that country, and of course toward crime mia. he invade and took it away, and now he needs to do something. he needs to support ukraine. but he won't right now according to "the washington post" and it seems obvious if you look at what they've been saying for some time, because ukraine won't go along with the conspiracy theory about hunter biden that makes no sense. if you just look at the basic facts and the most basic of timelines. >> elise labbot, thank you so much for being on the show. and coming up, president trump's campaign manager describes the trump family as a dynasty that will last for decades. we'll dig into that comment plus president trump has another

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republican leaders in three states have voted to cancel 2020 primaries and caucuses. gop parties in south carolina, nevada, and kansas announced over the weekend that all republican delegates will be committed to president trump in the upcoming election cycle. republicans in arizona will reportedly make a formal decision as early as today. among the reasons for the states decisions to nix primaries and caucuses include the expenses associated with putting on an election when the incumbent already has significant party support. canceling primaries and caucuses has been done before by the party of the presidential incumbent, but in the past that has mostly been when there has been no real primary challenger.

interesting. joining us now, one of those primary challengers, the latest republican to launch a bid to take on president trump in 2020. republican presidential candidate mark sanford. he's served south carolina as governor and a u.s. congressman. >> hey, mark, great to see you here. thanks so much for coming on the show. why don't we start with the big question, why are you running for president? >> i'm running because think we need to have a conversation about what it means to be a republican. i think that we've lott ost our as a party. joe, you were there in the early '90s and we actually made improvements with regard to this issue of debt and deficits and government spending. we saw a balanced budget during that time period. that has gone by the wayside. i think that economic matters matter. i would also say that we got have a conversation about the way in which we engage with the rest of the world. trade and free trade used to be a linchpin, what the republican

party was about. it too has gone by the wayside. i would say that we've got to have a conversation about institutions and sort of a conservative framework for the by that which the bodies talk to each other. we've lost that or are in the process of losing that. when the president goes out and says the fed chair san enemy of the state, we're challenging institutions in a dangerous way. and that's been the glue that's held the balance of what the founding fathers nut 'place. and we've got have a conversation about tone. you can say the right thing but in the wrong way you can turn folks off. you saw this for the first time in about 50 years the democrats won because a whole lot of soccer moms and young folks said, wait a minute what's going on here? doesn't make sense to me. >> you know, mark, the thing is, again, we have to remind people, you brought it up, but when we got to congress everybody was saying we could never balance the budget. we balanced the budget for the first time in a generation.

we balanced it four years in a row for the first time in a century. we passed welfare reform, we cut taxes, we actually reformed medicare, extend its life by seven years by making some difficult choices. that's what i always thought conservatives did. that's what i always thought the republican party stood for. and yet, you're running against a republican president who's given us the biggest deficits ever, certainly in an expansive economy. the biggest federal debt ever. the biggest federal spending budget ever. a budget that even rand paul said a wocouple of months ago w the biggest boondoggle in the history of the republic. and he's got -- because he's a protectionist, because he doesn't believe in free markets, free trade, he's got this

$16 billion socialist scheme to pay off the biggest agricultural interests, industrial interests in america. how do you run against a guy like that when 75%, 80% of republicans support that? the party has changed, mark. it's changed. >> i would say this. that's the central premise of the campaign. those thousands of conversations that i had over 25 years, both as two terms in the governorship and 12 years in the house of representatives, the thousands of conversations i had with folks whether at the small business level where they were trying to make it or whether you talk to folks around the kitchen counter and they're talking about the struggle they had with finances, i believe that those people have not disappeared. i think that they haven't been talked to, they haven't been appealed to. but i don't think they've disappeared. now if i'm wrong on that, my campaign will be short lived. but if i'm right, i think that this campaign will have legs. >> mark, so is -- you talk about

this campaign being about what it means to be a republican. is president trump a republican? and the republican leaders in congress who refuse to challenge him at times, are they try legitimate republicans with conservative ideals? what do you make of what is happening? >> i would certainly see the fact that whatever republican is has gotten a bit murky. it's a long way from where joe and i started back in the early '90s? >> is the president a republican? >> that's for other people to determine. i mean, he's certainly labeled a republican. i think that a lot of his actions are contrary to conservative philosophy which i think is what republicanism traditionally was about. >> mark, we hear often about his base, trump's base, you hear it all the time that they love him, they can't be shaken from him. there are people that go from state to state to go to his rallies. what's your theory of the case? is there an opening for someone like you and if so, what is it? >> i think two different levels.

if you look at homost of those polls when they say 80% support, mostly the ones that respond say they would like to see the presidential lengthed, there that there ought to be a debate as to where we're going as a party. most of those folks out there, again, i keep going back to they haven't disappeared. the grassroots of what the party used to be about i think is still there. but, again, that's the central tenant that i'm going to kplexpe in this zblan one of the things that he talked about was ill lamb immigration. the comprehension reform that allowed -- what are your views about immigration over all? and a big part of the country is concerned about climate change. do you think a republican candidate such as yourself can believe in the science and talk about responsible measures on climate change and still get some support? >> i would hope so.

again, i come from the coast of south carolina. it's called the low country of south carolina for a reason where i grew up. and literally on the farm that i grew up on you can see areas that there were pine trees growing up when i was a boy that are now salt flats. i believe in climate change. it's to me illogical to say i believe in the miracles of science in terms of what it can do to our bodies at a hospitals at johns hopkins but i don't believe in science when it comes to earth. that, to me, is a nonsequitur. so, yes, i would think that believing in science seems to be pretty logical and there would be room for that in the party going forward. as to immigration, yeah, i mean, we're a nation of immigrants. i think the key there is to your point legal immigration. we want to have a system where people don't just haphazardly walk back and forth across the border. but we ought to welcome folks. we're in a global race for intellectual capital and the idea of rewarding people who

have brainpower coming here and staying to this country to me makes sense. in another sense we have real needs to handle with the hands, having a work permit system that's logical to me makes sense. >> governor, let me ask you -- let me jump in here with a crassly political question, which is we have some history in this country of challengers to incumbent presidents not getting the nomination but weakening the president, i'm thinkingive 1992 when buchanan had a negative impact on president george h.w. bush did the bush. do you have a role model there or somewhere else and if the effect of your campaign is to weaken president trump, not get the republican nomination but make it easier for a democrat to win next november, is that okay with you? >> well, i mean, a lot of people have brought that up as a reason not to run. but i think you got to own what you known life. and so this is the equivalent of

saying within the republican party to all of those high school football teams across america, tell you what, guys, we are not going to scrimmage this week. we'll be stronger by not scrimmaging, we're just going to play on friday night. and the coach would say, are you completely out of your mind? the american way is premised on competition. and political parties other made better by competition. i went to graduate school at the university of virginia and we had the case study method, you threw an idea out in the middle of the table, you debated it long enough that hopefully and in most cases you end up with a better idea at the end of the day. i think the party would be made stronger. i think the eventual nominee would be made stronger by robust debate of ideas rather than simply saying we picked our horse, we're sticking with and it we'll see what happens come next november. >> before you go, if trump wins the nomination, who will you vote for for president? >> i mean, that's one of those questions of how many angels danced on the head of a pen,

i'll worry about it when i get there. i would say this fairness, though, i'm an idea guy. i believe in ideas. and i'm going to pick the candidate that's closest to what i believe in confronting this financial storm that's coming our way. i think we have a profound problem, the likes of a financial hurricane that's coming ashore if we do nothing on debt, deficit, and government spending. and so the answer to the question would be whoever comes the closest to answering those questions for me. >> republican presidential candidate mark sanford. great to have you on the show. >> yes, ma'am. >> thank you very much. >> pleasure. up next, the death toll from hurricane dorian in the bahamas is rising as relief efforts are under way. dr. dave campbell and some of the "morning joe" teams are just back from covering those providing aid to areas on the islands. he joins us next on "morning joe." david: "life is complicated.

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hurricane dorian's death toll has risen to at least 44 in

the bahamas, and that number is feared to dramatically increase. the catastrophic category five storm decimated the islands last week leaving thousands without homes. according to the "new york times," the bahamian security forces are still responding to reports of missing and trapped people. and teams of forensic investigators are still combing through the storm debris. yesterday, delta air lines brought in 5,000 pounds of relief aid to the bahamas. the airline also planned to help evacuate hundreds of haitian refugees on two flights, but due to operational challenges, it was only able to send one. the airline said moreau flights are planned for today. joining us now, "morning joe" contributor dr. dave campbell who is just back from the bahamas. a lot of what you saw, dr. dave, i'm wonder if you're hearing reflections of this now as days go by, residents worried that as

time goes by things are going to get so much worse for them because there's not access to help people who are stranded. >> it's a complex problem, mika. the island is surrounded by water. there are lots of small settlements on abaco island in particular, but if you look at both grand bahama and abaco island and all the little islands surrounding it, there may be up to 70,000 people that are without shelter or homes. and the death toll will certainly rise. the bahamian government is simply stating that their concentration now son recovery and providing aid, not keeping up with the death toll. >> so if you look at these pictures overhead and, you know, you and i both, we both spent decades in florida, even an untrained eye can tell there just isn't shelter on that island. there isn't much shelter on that island. what is project hope doing?

what are other relief agencies doing to provide basic sustenance to the people who have suffered in this storm? and do they expect it to even get worse before it gets better? >> yeah, joe, they -- they and dozens of other nongovernmental organizations are doing their work every single day shipping barges of medical supplies, equipment, food, shelter, provisional shelter and water over to particularly marsh harbour, which is the epicenter, from what i can tell, of the brunt of the hurricane dorian. so lots of things are happening simultaneously. there's no fuel. so when you look at the cars on the side of the road, the first round of cars were those that were flooded. the second round of cars parked on the side of the road, they've run out of gas. >> we've heard -- we've heard some sad stories, we were

visiting a church yesterday and hearing about their relief efforts across the bahamas. you know this area very well. you obviously went over to this area. what is your biggest concern today? >> today it is both security as well as preventing those that are injured from developing further health problems just because they don't have access to electricity, to problem medicines, to iv fluids, to antibiotics. that's where project hope, rubicon, they're bringing in to the marsh hospital that's surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of people who need health care, they need supplies and they need money.

>> and those are exactly the organizations that can get the money directly there. dr. dave campbell, thank you very much for being on and for your work on this. it is just past the top of the hour on this monday, september 9th. still with us we have political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore, richard haas, washington bureau chief for usa today and author of the "mate tr mate tree yark, susan page, and tom nichols. great day to have tom on. we are learning more about the secret meeting that the president planned with the taliban at camp david. take it in before abruptly announcing on twitter that it was canceled. the meeting would have happened yesterday just days before the 18th anniversary of 9/11.

the president says he canceled the meeting after the taliban claimed response ability fibili bombing in kabul that killed an american soldier and 11 others. trump tweeted in part, what kind of people would kill so many in order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? they didn't. they only made it worse. if they cannot agree to a ceasefire during these very important peace talks and would even kill 12 innocent people, then they probably don't have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreement anyway. u.s. officials tell nbc news that discussions about meeting with taliban leaders began about a week ago. president trump's first decided to hold a meeting with the group and the president of afghanistan in washington, but later came up with the idea of hosting them at camp david. as the new york times notes, what would have been one of the biggest headline-grabbing moments of his tenure was put together on the spur of the

moment and then canceled on the spur of the moment. the usual national security council process was dispensed with. only a small circle of advisers was even clued in. >> peter baker, you wrote about this and about how haphazard it was. i said last hour without being facetious at all, donald trump put more -- more planning, more forethought into his beauty pageants and golf club champi s championships than did he here. my gosh, any idea what made him believe that he could just plan this within a week, invite the taliban to camp david and come up with a meaningful peace deal? >> this is donald trump at his most trumpian. he has this great yearning ambition to the end. to achieve what other presidents

haven't achieved and he's going to swing back and forth depending on the mood of the day. and his adviser are busy in their own tribal infighting how to handle him. we saw this in north korea just a few months ago when he went and made a relatively last-minute visit to dmz and crossed over to north korea to meet and shake hands with kim jong-un. that's the same sort of thing he was thinking about here. he was looking for the big dramatic demonstration of of progress. he wanted to do something big that he promised in his campaign, which is to end the afghan war. a lot of his advisers thought it was an okay idea. they've been working hard on this deal for months. almost a month now. they've been negotiating in doha with the taliban. that part's been going on for a while. but the idea of camp david was all trump. very showman like. the idea of making a big play that would get a lot of attention. of course that offended a lot of people, people like elizabeth

cheney and other people in the republican party who thought the taliban of all people at the crown's jewel of american presidency in camp david seemed an affront, to say the least. and in the end the president called it off. it's not clear whether the taliban had completely agreed to come in the first place. they had a different idea of the idea. they said they would come but only after the announcement that the deal had been made. the president wanted to make the saumt at camp dav soumt at camp david so he would be the deal cutter and putting the final touches on it. >> tom, i guess we shouldn't be surprised at this television presidency that donald trump at the last minute decided to invite there is not a joke, though it could have been one on south park several years ago, decided to invite the taliban to camp david. this is the same guy who attacked barack obama for even

talking to members of the taliban. but here he is, again, trying to rush a deal, getting nothing in return for it, but an embarrassment to the united states. it sounds all too familiar when you look at what he's done with kim jong-un and north korea. >> the president lives in the moment. there is no past, there is no future. it's whatever works right at this moment. and, you know, it's probably important to review for people how decisions are normally made where a president gives direction to his staff, says there are big things i want to get done. the staff goes out, they work on it. they come up with option. they then come back to the president and say here are some possibilities that we can do -- that you can choose from and we can make happen for you. that's not what happens in this administration. in this administration, the president, no matter what anybody else is doing, the president gets an idea and he thinks it will be great for him right at this moment it will make him, you know, it will give him a great show, it will move

the polls. make the base happy, whatever it is. and he says there is what we're doing. and then the entire bureaucracy has to work backward from that and figure out, okay, why was this a good idea? why are we going to do this? what was the rationalization? and as a result, everybody's pushing and pulling in the wrong directions because they're always one step behind whatever stray electron fired in the president's mind that morning. it's not a way to make policy. and that's how you get the president saying, gosh, what kind of people are these taliban guys some they seem really bad. because it's probably the first time he's really thought about it while other people have worked on it for a year. >> i agree. let me just make a point where i ask peter a question. nobody here is really interested in peace. let's be honest. the administration wanted an agreement to get u.s. forces out of afghanistan. the taliban wants an agreement so they can take over afghanistan. missing is the fact that nobody

is sincerely interested in ending -- in having peace here. and the one party that might want it, which is the afghan government, was essentially cut out of the process. but, peter, i had a question for you. i haven't heard anybody talk about the intelligence community here. we have khalilzad and pompeo supposedly wanting a deal, bolton opposing a deal. but normally when an administration would think about a big diplomatic initiative, the intelligence community would weigh in and give the assessment of all the partners and players and what might happen. do you have any sense of how that worked here? >> it's a great question. no, i don't have the particular sense of that. you didn't hear that as part of the conversation. this not being the normal process that we see that you saw in several administrations. and i think that's -- that's key. this is a president who likes to sort of operate on a more ad-hoc basis. tom i think had it right. he does live in the moment. and he doesn't he doesn't have a strong relationship with the intelligence community.

and you're right, that this deal was not with the afghan government, which was a major, major, structural factor here. what the president had in mind was, fine, let's bring the afghan president to camp david as well and he would have a meeting with the president in one lodge and the taliban in another lodge and see if he couldn't get them on board with the deal he was cutting with the taliban. but they're on a different set of equities and they're not interested in the united states pulling out. that's what the president's interest is and the american people's interests is. but it's very vulnerable if it's left to its own devices. an election is coming up and the fate of that son the line. it's been a very complicated set of dynamics and without the intelligence community weighing in in any way that we've been hearing about. >> all right. i don't know if you all have heard this, but there is a new dynasty in american politics.

>> very excited. >> yes. >> i read all about the kennedys, the bushes. >> it's a lot like that when you have members of this dynasty naming them kids and trying to fashion themselves after the kennedys, it's incredible. at least according to trump campaign manager brad parse could y so you can. >> he described the trump family as a dynasty that will last for decades. that sparked chatter. >> where, where will they last for decades. >> other members of the family would be running for office in the future. he respond, quote, i just think they're a dynasty. i think they're all amazing people with amazing. >> wonder. >> capabilities. >> exactly. >> i think you see that from don junior. i think you see that from ivanka. you see it from jared. you see it from all. but a campaign official told "the new york times" that he was

referring less to possible candidacies in the future and more to activities such as political speeches. >> yeah, no. >> fundraising for themselves as the times reports, even if no other trump tries to run a campaign, advisers to mr. trump believe he will remain active and do think he is going to concede the spotlight easily or follow previous presidents laying low after leaving office. sometimes there's things you fashion yourself to be but it just is not, you know what i mean, joe? >> well -- >> you can try. >> i don't. >> you can try that jackie o. talk. >> i will say nick confessore, mika has pointed out for months now that if you look at ivanka trump's instagram feed, if you look at all of her speeches behind the presidential seal, if you look at where she goes, what she does, it doesn't really take

a political expert to see that she's lining herself up to run for political office in the future and that her father is doing the same. and i find it very interesting in these new articles about the fight, the battle between donald trump and mike pence, a trump person says if only pence would say he's not going to run in 2024, then the breach would be mended. >> look, i think brad is right, i think we're going to have the trumps in american politics for a long time to come. i think that trump himself is the trend that were long in making in american politics, this merger of reality tv and combat and think his kids are well positioned to take advantage of that. and, yes, it could just be political speeches and branding and merchandise, but there is a lot of money to be made in those

areas without a campaign from this. so we'll see. >> and tom nichols, let's just focusing on ivanka trump, it certainly does look like, again, anybody that's been around politics for more than a week can see that there has been a concerted effort to put her in a position so she can follow in her father's footsteps. >> yeah, there's definitely an effort here to make ivanka happen. i'm not sure i agree with nick. i think, you know, joe, to take a quote from one of our favorite bands, this may be a ledge and then lasts a lunchtime. >> yes. by the way, i can just stop you and say -- >> great, here we go. >> any reference on television, you get double points for that. go ahead, yes. a legend that lasted a lunchtime. go ahead. >> the problem here is that, first of all, donald trump, whatever his other flaws, he has a couple of remarkable skills as a public figure.

but this isn't a dynasty. i'm a massachusetts -- i was a republican and i was a massachusetts republicans and we weren't big fans of the kennedys. but we all accepted they had formidable skills and formidable political talents and organizational skills. think that the trumps insofar as they're going to last after the trump administration, they're going to be draining money out of the pockets of their fan base, you know, whether that turns into a political dynasty, i think that's hard to imagine. you know, ivanka's few for rays on to the world's stage will be summed up by the world leaders that the summit who politely tried to ignore her while she kept interrupting them. i'm not sure this becomes a political dynasty that really goes anywhere other than making money. which i think, by the way, was the whole point of donald trump running in the first place, that this was just a money-making operation that went off the

rails. >> yeah. >> and accidentally put the man into office. >> yeah, it was -- it was even by donald trump's own thinking, i think, it was a branding exercise that went horribly, horribly wrong. he never saw this victory coming. his wife didn't see this victory coming. the family didn't see the victory coming. one thing i'll say, mika, about a trump dynasty, you look back over the past 50 years and there have been three or four major political figures who were gifted politicians on the campaign trail. ronald reagan, bill clinton, barack obama, and donald trump. >> uh-huh. >> ronald reagan's skills were not transferrable to george h.w. bush. bill clinton's skills were not transferrable to hillary clinton when she ran. she just couldn't get away with half of what bill clinton was able to get away with. you look at barack obama, those skills and talents were not

transferrable. joe biden, joe biden's going -- uniquely obama, is he right, he was lebron. and the same with donald trump. and, listen, there has been no that has run a campaign in the history of the united states like donald trump. this is even if you forget the racism, which i'm not saying you forget, i'm just talking just pure political ability to pull in votes, it's really unparalleled and unprecedented. he had two or three people working on his campaign through the primaries and he managed to it himself. that's not transferrable to any member of his family or any member of the republican party. so mark me down as very skeptical. >> having said that, susan page, donald trump has the platform of the presidency and his daughter is using it every day to sort of further brand herself on the international stage.

in some certain way. what would you make of her efforts? if you follow her on instagram or watch these videos, these very slick videos they make of her looking like some sort of princess or world leader, you know, it can be effective, can't it, in terms of a branding tool? >> you know, i think it gives ivanka trump the opportunity to try pursue a political career on her own. it doesn't mean she'll be able to differ on it. i think she, as joe just said, she'll have a chance, perhaps, to show whether she can run for office on her own that is a difficult prospect. there are a lot of people who would like to run for office who find it harder than they expect it to be. i do think that donald trump might be interested in trying to make a dynasty on his own. i mean, one of the safest bets in american politics is whether president trump wins re-election or not, is he going to continue to be a voice in american politics. the idea that he will go away quietly after one term or even

after two terms i think is not something we would expect to be consistent with his general personality. >> let's close this segment out with brexit. and let me bring in peter baker and richard haas here. richard, we'll start with you. my gosh, talk about one of the worst starts for any premiership in the history of great britain. boris johnson loses some of the most senior respected members of the tory party, he kicks them out, loses two essential votes, his own brother abandons him. he loses yet another cabinet member this weekend. it's hard to imagine how things could have started out worse for boris johnson. what happens next? >> yeah, with one exception, joe, which is the public opinion polls show him in an election

against jeremy corbin and the labor party winning handedly. so the real question is, you know, which is what johnson wants. he wants to get to an election to give him a mandate. and it's, again, it's the country's real misfortune not just to have boris johnson as prime minister, but to have jeremy corbin as the head of the opposition. that is, shall we say, a rather flawed set of choices. so the most immediate thing, though, is whether you extend the deadline, which is meant to be halloween, october 31st to get all of this resolved to work out with europe that you delay things. then the question is, do the brits move to an election? some would like a second referendum, looks unlikely. but do you have a long-term new negotiation with the eu to see if you can get a slightly tweaked deal. i think the immediate question is whether an election comes or whether you simply have an extension of the status quo. >> you know, peter baker, it just seems remarkable to me that

labor has a chance to come in and take this government over in elections. and yet they continue to have a man leading their party that will be unelectable in any general election. jerem jeremy corbyn, where do any of us begin talking about his national deficiencies as a leader? >> the british are left with a pretty -- the worst of all evils kind of choice between two candidates who have great manifest flaws. it's an extraordinary situation to watch this last week. it's the week that made london, you know, help washington look kind of stable and normal in its politics for a change. i mean, how can you -- how can you draft a script more dramatic or extraordinary than the one you just outlined about his first week on the job. first weeks on the job. and, you know, what's interesting of course is that you see president trump here watching that trying to helphill

his friend boris johnson. mike pence made a stop there to kind of give him a slap on the back and say everything will be okay, we're with you, we'll give you a great trade agreement if you can get through this. but i don't know if he can. it's going to be an interesting test of trumpism and nationalism and this right-leaning populism that's kind of swept through europe and britain over the last couple of years. does it have -- can it execute its will? can it govern after taking office? i want to make one point on the other topic you raised on the idea that trump family. don junior, or don't underestimate him. i saw him the other day at a cincinnati rally and he was doing warm-up for his father. i was struck by how he really had the crowd. it was a rip roaring speech. he's got it down much better than the ohio governor and much better than the ohio politicians who were there. he had the crowd with him. that's a limited audience. i don't know where he would run, but in the trumpian world, he is, in fact, a star and has, you

know, clearly has his eye on the future. it wouldn't surprise me to see him make a real effort at least on that side of the political spectrum have a good deal of support. >> i'm so glad you brought that up. i've seen don junior campaign before -- before conservative audiences and actually why don't we just put him down as that caveat. he knows how to move conservative audiences when he starts talking about the second amendment, when he starts talking about conservism in general. you're right pieft seen h. i've seen him in conservative settings. but where could he be? it wouldn't be presidential in the beginning and it wouldn't be in new york. >> right. >> new york state. so, that is the question. what's his considerency. but he is a strong, strong

speaker. richard, let me ask you really quickly, latest -- latest copy of your journal is entitled awe tockcracy now. it's so funny, when i was walking pasty h walking past it i had a flash moment and said thank god. the second we start talking about how it's sweeping the globe, i did, i picked it up and bought it in the airport. i was at logan and said i'm going to buy this, thank god, because every time we call come to this conclusion, the wheels start to fall off. there was an extraordinary -- extraordinary issue everybody should read. but look and see what's happening. gee, i mean, it just since publication, he's really coming under criticism, quiet criticism, but criticism all the same in beijing, whether it's for his mishandling of hong kong or a number of other things that

he's done. he's being criticized. you look at russia, putin facing more challenges than he's faced. italy, you can see what happens in italy. enemies came together, thank god, and created a coalition that shut him out. this seems to be, as we move into fall, at least a slight pushback against some of that authoritarianism, some of that illy r ill liberal populism that we've seen pop up in central and eastern europe. >> first things first, joe, thank you for shelling out 12 bucks or whatever it was to buy foreign affairs. you're a good man. you see what's going non china. i think it's the biggest story in the world right now. xi jinping, by the time you consolidate the power there's no

one else to blame. and suddenly stakes have gone up with the mishandling of hong kong. you've just had local election yesterday. people are moving away from putin and the establishment. we've seen it in turkey, the votes in anker and istanbul. when authoritarians become the status quo and the establishment, essentially when they fail to deliver economic performance and when they fail to pick up the garbage, populism turns against them. these things are cyclical. and so what we take as a given, china looking the way it looks, russia looking the way it looks, i think what history teaches us is today's given becomes tomorrow's change. so i think you make a really important point. fasten your seatbelts, stay tuned. it's not clear to me that what we wake up to in 2019 is necessarily going to be the permanent new normal. we got challenges here, obviously challenges in britain and europe. but we've also got, i think, big

challenges to authoritarians around the world. that's a piece of quiet good news. >> all right, peter baker, thank you very much for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," elizabeth warren gets a rock star welcome at the new hampshire democratic party convention. we'll get a live report. look at that. plus, congressman max rose in new york, an afghanistan war veteran joins to us respond to the president's hastily planned, seemingly flipped then canceled meeting with the taliban at camp david. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. wharchts they want us to do is leave the european union. >> we know that. you should be in brussels negotiating. where's the negotiation going on? where is it? you're morally in leaves, you should be in brussels leading the british people to negotiating against leaving the european union. you're playing games. >> unfortunately this

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been some pretty bad actors travel through that place throughout recorded history. >> secretary pompeo alluding to the long history of conflict in afghanistan. so where do we go from here? joining us now, member of the house homeland security and veterans affairs committees, democratic congressman max rose of new york. he's a veteran of the war in afghanistan and a recipient of the bronze star and purple heart. also with us, writer and political commentator. and director at concerned veterans for america, dan

coldway. max, i'll start with you. i was watching the tweets come over the weekend and i have so many questions. what are yours? >> well, first of all, we should state that this was a horrible idea to bring the taliban to camp david, especially in the days running up to september 11th. my district, staten island and new york city was hurt so hard by 9/11 and that spain still very much there. we can't lose sight of the fact that we have got then war, america's longest running war. come this october soldiers will be enlisted in the united states military who were not born when we declared war against afghanistan and the taliban. and to then war, it will require negotiations and discussions with the taliban. and certainly an agreement from them that they will no longer host international terrorist organizations. i still have confidence that that is possible. but it's going to take american leadership, it's going to take

diplomatic leadership, and it's certainly going to take a plan in place to allow to us respond should the taliban break that agreement. so time will tell. but i still hope for peace. i don't want to see generations to come deploying to afghanistan and dying there. >> so i'm still at a loss as to what could be the positive impact of a meeting so hastily put together and then canceled. am i missing something? i think we all agree the war -- these endless wars can't go on, but it's easier said than done to disengage. >> exactly. you row, mika, as a muslim woman i can just say that the entire concept of inviting the taliban to u.s. soil on camp david is horrifying and personal. don't we remember laura bush then first lady in 2001 she

famously said that the fight for terrorism includes the fight for the dignity of women. she credited the u.s. invasion as a direct reason why half began women were no longer, quote, imprisoned in their homes. here we are 17 years later talking about negotiating with the taliban. it may have been 9/11, that was the main reason we invaded afghanistan, but it was the plight of afghan women that was used to really win the pr and optics battle for the war. and you know, mika, apparently negotiations with the taliban have been going on for the past year. they've had about nine meetings in doha, in qatar, and with no women present, behind closed doors. we've heard no discussion of -- of what is going to happen to the fate of afghan women. so we've heard absolutely no discussions and i think it's undeniable that we have totally exploited the plieght of afghan women. and in fact we're inviting the

taliban to discuss and deal directly with them. it's absolutely horrifying and shocking. >> it sometimes seems that president trump is caught between his desire to seem strong if these negotiations and also to respond to the genuine sentiment in america today that we have been there too long, that our cost in blood and treasure are too great. what is the kind of end scale of this look like? what is a possible off-ramp for the u.s. for involvement afghanistan? >> well, i would just say think that what president trump needs to do is peace deal or no peace deal is ultimately just start to withdraw from afghanistan. the reality is that we've accomplished what we needed to accomplish after 9/11. we punished the taliban. we degraded al qaeda's central branch, we killed osama bin laden. it's time to leave. i'm sick and tired of seeing america's finest young men and women we have in this country go over there and fight in a war

with no clear end state where our strategy just seems to be mud willing muddling along. i actually served as a marine prior to going to rack, biraq, need to focus on the policy and i think president trump needs to focus and get out. and while politics doesn't matter, it's not the most political thing. but politically it would be advantageous for him. in polling that's been done, it shows that overwhelmingly, as you said, the american people want to get out of afghanistan. that's what president trump should do. >> but i can just say that, i mean, we are all exhausted from this war. we are all exhausted. i think that is bipartisan and universal. this is america's longest war. but have we really achieved our targets? >> the taliban today control more territory in afghanistan than they did at the start of the u.s. invasion. so i think just like -- think we are all exhausted of this war, but i highly doubt that trump is

the man who's going to get us out. >> congressman, this is susan page here in washington. >> how are you? >> let me just ask you, of course americans in both parties would like america's longest war to come to an end. this was a goal also of the past administration, of the obama administration. but when it came right up to it with president obama, he -- he accepted the argument that extricating the united states entirely from that war would leave the landscape free for afghanistan to once again be a place that would harbor terrorists who threaten the united states. i wonder what you think about that. to what degree is it realistic and in america's long-term national security interests to truly extricate ourselves from afghanistan? >> sure. it's absolutely realistic because you have to look at the threat that we face. when you look at global extremism, certainly they are seizing upon areas that are lawless and stateless. but afghanistan doesn't have a

monopoly on that state of fairs. i could list 20 nations in the middle east, africa, central asia that fit that criteria. we have to have an infrastructure in place that allows our military to engage in offensive actions in a flexible and versatile manner holding massive amounts of land in central asia is not the answer. to put things into perspective, i deployed to afghanistan from 12 to 2013 in a very small rural area of kandahar province. that area is completely could e controlled by the taliban and the only way we could get that back is with the deployment of hundreds of thousands of troops and it wouldn't serve our national security interests in the slightest. i'm not an isolationist but i am a realist and continuing this forever war only leads to the unnecessary loss of blood and treasure in the is also an opportunity for bipartisan action. i'm a democrat, dan serves, you know, with an organization

that's more conservative in nature. but we have tremendous agreement in this regard. this is an opportunity for to us show the american people that we can get to work again, that washington isn't totally broken, and it's certainly an opportunity for the president to lead. >> dan there is tom nichols in washington. is there any red line here for you that you wouldn't accept as the price of getting out? you've been very clear that you think the president should just start the process, start pulling troops out. but as richard haas pointed out earlier, that means basically you're handing the taliban -- you're handing afghanistan back to the taliban. are there any lines you kwo would say we can't go past that? there are things we have to do if that's part of the deal and we wouldn't be able to leave? >> first of all, i wouldn't accept the overall premise that if we leave we're going to hand the whole country over to the taliban. pre 9/11, they never had full control over the country. you have other groups opposed to the tal been that control large

parts of the country. people forget prior 9/lefb, we we 9/11, we were working with those groups to project power in afghanistan and to conduct intelligence. now, the problem was is that the clinton administration, the first part of the bush administration, they didn't do that very well. but we've learned our lessons, we can provide isr surveillance of the country. we have long-range strike capabilities. and most importantly there's countries in the region that also don't have an interest in seeing afghanistan become a safe haven for the tal bab -- excuse me, safe haven for al qaeda that ultimately wants to attack us. i think this is a much different environment, you know, than pre 9/11. i would say us getting out doesn't mean we would completely ignore the country. there's still things we can do and we should still monitor the country. but ultimately what we should not to do is continue to muddle along like we are and sacrifice other national security priorities which are becoming

more important. >> dan caldwell, thank you. thank you all of you. great conversation. and coming up, 19 democratic candidates flock to new hampshire over the weekend for the state's democratic convention. vaughn hillyard was there and he joins us next to weigh in on who stood out on stage and with the voters. "morning joe" will be right back. we call it the mother standard of care.

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. joe biden continues to maintain his front runner status according to the latest abc news "washington post" national poll. biden at 27% holds an eight point lead heading into thursday's third primary debate, down two points since july. senator bernie sanders follows in second place with 19%, down four points. senator elizabeth warren sits in third place with a six-point bump since the middle of the summer. and the new cbs news tracking poll shows warren with a one-point advantage over biden in the early voting states. the states whose voters will

cast ballots through super tuesday next year, including iowa, new hampshire, nevada, texas, and massachusetts. that support was evident over the weekend at new hampshire's democratic party convention. the massachusetts senator was graded on saturday by a standing ovation that lasted around two minutes, according to the "new york times." her speech was also frequently interrupted by the roar of noise makers the audience was given with the words, win with warren, written on them. it is unclear how many of warren supporters attended the speech from out of state. she was one of the 19 candidates, including fellow senator bernie sanders and joe biden who spoke at the gathering. joining us now, msnbc vaughn hillyard. vaughn was in new hampshire over the weekend covering the democratic contention. also host of msnbc's politic nation reverend al sharpton.

vaughn, we'll start with you. elizabeth warren received incredibly well, her polling is good. i also think we often fail to notice bernie sanders right there too. >> reporter: exactly. you kind of find joe biden boxed right in between those two. you have vermont neighboring over to the west. you've got massachusetts neighboring over to the east there. and remember, a large number of folks that live in new hampshire, they receive, they watch the boston airwaves on their television sets so they've been long acquainted with elizabeth warren. it's more than if a few folks came across the lines there. the response to her was telling. you had 19 candidates that took that convention stage over the course of ten hours and nobody came close to receiving that sort of reception. who are those folks that were in that room? largely they were activists. you have 1400 delegates, new hampshire delegates. these are elected officials. as long as those activists that are on the ground there, 1400 of them in what elizabeth warren, her message to them was quite clear. i wanted to let you specifically

hear from her what her message was when she was urging them what kind of candidate to choose. >> i get it. there is a lot at stake. and people are scared. but we can't choose a candidate we don't believe in because we're scared. and we can't ask other people to vote for someone we don't believe in. >> if you look at the early state polling not only in new hampshire, you guys, but also in iowa, south carolina, nevada, you see what's essentially become a clear top three. that top tier is now joe biden, bernie sanders, liz warren. course we're now five months away from the new hampshire primary. i talked with cory booker yesterday saying what does it take to get sort of that inspirational message that is he trying to emote as well as other candidates? he says, look, they have what is essentially a ground organization that is in play. a lot of these candidates, if we

take booker for instance, he has more than 30 staffers that are on the ground there. and if the moment were to arise, they say they have touched base with not only those activists but they have in place a system in which would be able to elevate them that next tier. one other note i'd like to make, it's interesting when you go inside that convention hall, when you hear those speeches they are very thematic, they are very big picture. you guys were talking about donald trump living in the moment, you heard from each of these candidates that was something much larger and not paying attention to what donald trump said yesterday or this week or the taliban meeting, it was a much bigger message about what the democratic party needs to stand for. >> vaughn, thank you very much. rev rand i want to bring you in. looking at elizabeth warren's ability to continue to gain and maintain a presence on the national stage in the top tier, how do you see this top tier playing out? bernie sanders, you know, often

i think people underestimate him. he's right there, second place all the time. joe biden doesn't seem to move, but elizabeth warren does, up. >> one of the things that has been consistent, i should say two things, is that bernie sanders has not gone anywhere, but he's not been able to stop the continued rise of elizabeth warren. if we've seen a constant in any of these polls, it's joe biden has not gone anywhere. he's not faded. everybody that has predicted as fading so far has been wrong, and elizabeth warren every time keeps increasing despite the fact that bernie sanders has not gone anywhere. so at this point it seems that as we go into this post-labor day debate, the third debate, that it is going to be biden and warren that everyone's going to have their eyes on. biden, who's not going anywhere, and warren who's been able to

maintain a constant and steady upbeat in terms of getting traction in this race. >> it's really incredible. i mean, she's -- the one thing biden has to worry about is a candidate with a real message who keeps climbing. i mean, she's an athlete. it's incredible to watch. >> absolutely. >> so while complaining that he and republicans haven't gotten enough credit for criminal justice reform, the president has also sparked a beef with john legend and his wife, chrissy teigen. it happened last night. it followed an msnbc special with lester holt and featured john legend on efforts to fix the broken criminal justice system. now stick with me here through this trump tweet. to get to the legend response. trump tweeted in part, when all of the people pushing so hard for kr criminal justice reform were unable to come even close to getting it done, they came to me as a group and asked for my help. i got it done with a group of

smarts and others who would never have gone for it. obama couldn't come close. a man named van jones and many others were profusely grateful at that time. i signed it into law. no one else did, and republicans deserve much credit, but now that is past. people who had virtually nothing to do with it are taking the praise. stay with me, guys like boring musician john legend and his filthy mouthed wife are talking now about how great it is, but i didn't see them around when we needed help getting it passed. john legend responded tweeting, imagine being president of a whole country and spending your sunday night hate-watching msnbc hoping somebody, anybody, will praise you. melania, please praise this man. he needs you. >> just unbelievable. rev, i mean, again, here's a bipartisan effort, one of the few bipartisan efforts that actually started well before you

had donald trump in the white house. people that did most of the work were representatives for the koch brothers and members of the obama white house. you actually had valerie jarrett working very hard on this as did a lot of republicans and democrats. the president's temper tantrum again last night just bizarre. >> they're certainly not based in fact. this was going on before he was president. many of us on the left and the right were working together on it and supported it. what he did not see in the special was people were saying but we need to go beyond that. that might, mr. president, be why they named it first step, not the end of the walk. what they were covering last night is more steps needed to deal with the kind of mass incarceration and other issues.

and as far as attacking john's wife, foul-mouthed, maybe she was watching some of the tapes released on the president during the campaign who used some of the same language. >> oh, there's that. >> meanwhile this morning, senator kamala harris has released her plan for comprehensive criminal justice reform seeking to overhaul the system that she views as broken and biased. now rev sat down with her, and we're going to have that for you next hour. also still ahead, new questions of whether the military is helping to prop up one of the president's struggling resorts. plus, congress returns to washington this week, and the pressure is on to pass some kind of gun reform legislation. the house is set to consider three new bills. nbc news white house correspondent geoff bennett joins us ahead with the details on that. "morning joe" will be right back. when i'm worried about moving into our new apartment.

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♪ who were inspired by different cultures ♪ and found that the past can create new memories... leading them to discover: we're woven together by the moments we share. for everywhere you go, expedia has everything you need, all in one place. on my orders, the united states military has begun strikes against al qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the taliban regime in afghanistan. >> after 2014, we will support a unified afghanistan as it takes responsibility for its own future. >> our brave troops have now been fighting in the middle east for almost 19 years. >> and afghanistan very much in the news this morning. good morning, and welcome to

"morning joe." it's monday, september 9th. with us we have political writer for the "new york times" and political analyst nick confesso confessore. author of the book "a world in disawray" richard hoss. author of the matriarch, susan page, jake sherman, he's an msnbc political contributor, and journalist and residents at georgetown university's school of foreign service, alease labbit joins us. we're learning more about the secret meeting the president planned with the taliban at camp days before abruptly announcing on twitter it was canceled. the meeting would have happened yesterday just days before the 18th anniversary of 9/11. the president says he canceled the meeting after the taliban claimed responsibility for a

bombing in kabul last thursday that killed an american soldier and 11 others. trump tweeted in part, what kind of people would kill so many in order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? they didn't. they only made it worse. if they cannot agree to a cease fire during these very important peace talks and would even kill 12 innocent people, then they probably don't have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreement anyway. u.s. officials tell nbc news that discussions about the meeting with taliban leaders began about a week ago. president trump first decided to hold a meeting with the group, and the president of afghanistan in washington, but later came up with the idea of hosting them at camp david. as the "new york times" notes, what would have been one of the biggest headline grabbing moments of his tenure was put together on the spur of the moment and then canceled on the spur of the moment. the usual national security

council process was dispensed with. only a small circle of advisers was clued in. national security adviser john bolton vehemently opposed meeting with the taliban, and bolton had an ally in mike pence. among the concerns of administration officials who opposed the meeting was that it might take place around the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. pence argued at one point that such a meeting could send the wrong message to members of the u.s. military who have fought and been killed by the taliban for years one senior administration official said. another concern among some administration officials was that elevating the negotiations to a meeting with the president at camp david might later embarrass trump if a deal fell apart. meanwhile, secretary of state mike pompeo went on all five sunday talk shows to defend his

peace efforts and the decision to host the taliban at camp david. >> in the end, if you're going to negotiate peace, you often have to deal with some pretty bad actors. there have often been discussions about war at camp david. there have been discussions about peace there as well: been some pretty bad actors travel through that place throughout recorded history. it's an important place. it's a place where we thought we could convince all the leaders of afghanistan, president ghani and his team as well as the talib taliban, we could convince them to begin to head in the direction that would create better conditions on the ground in afghanistan. >> does this mean talks are off completely? >> so, for the time being, that's absolutely the case. if you're the taliban, conditions have been worsening and they're about to get worse. we're going to make sure that everyone in the region understands that america will always protect its national security interests. >> richard, there is so much to be concerned about with this proposed meeting put together at the spur of the moment.

it just comes up with an idea a week ago, and then he's going to have a camp david summit with, you know, people who have been killing americans now for 19 years who are savages to their own people, do untold things to the women of that country. are they absolute worst of the worst, but just stepping back from that on who donald trump wanted to take to camp david, let's just -- we could look at the way he has planned summits with kim jong-un as well as the taliban and others and this is a man who put far more foresight and far more planning into his beauty pageants and club golf tournaments than he has -- and i'm dead serious, dead serious,

put more planning and forethought into his beauty pageants and club golf tournaments than he is the most important diplomatic meetings that the united states could be facing right now. >> look, there's so many ways to go at this. one is it shows the president's unlimited and totally misplaced confidence in the power of his own personality in these one on one settings. secondly, it reveals that there is no process in this administration. there is no serious policy making process where the various departments come together, intelligence and the rest. but most of all, joe, this just represents a fundamental misreading of afghanistan kand the taliban. the taliban are not a negotiating partner. the only thing you can negotiate is not peace, is american withdrawal. if that's what you want to do, fine, but let's not confuse it

with peace. what we're simply doing is leaving and selling out our partners. what we need is not a negotiating strategy with the taliban. what we need is a consulting strategy with the afghan government, and the question ought to be how long do u.s. troops stay? we could probably live with a reduction in troops. what kind of long-term military and even more important economic and diplomatic support we give them, the goal ought to be that afghanistan never again becomes a launching pad for terrorism against americans, but there is no peace to negotiate given who the taliban are and guciven the fact that they continue to enjoy sanctuary out of pakistan. that is the history of these types of wars. >> the irony that a politician who campaigned on strength has proven to be such a patsy for vladimir putin and for kim jong-un and now the taliban,

trying to desperately cobble together a meeting with the taliban to try to make peace with them at camp david, again, with no foresight, no planning, no strategic guidance from anyone else because, of course, he didn't go through the process because there is no process inside the white house. >> well, you're exactly right, joe, and i mean, i think president trump saw the deal shaping up. he desperately wants a deal with the taliban because he wants to fulfill that campaign promise of getting out of afghanistan. so he -- actually, if you remember last month in bedminster he met with his aides. they were starting to talk about it then, and trump basically said listen, i negotiated with kim jong-un, i negotiate with putin, i negotiate with president xi of china, i can do this better.

that's what he decided, you know, after talking on that meeting on september 1st just before labor day to bring everybody together. but again, as richard said, it's more about the pageantry. it's more about getting them in the room, and then i think he got cold feet, and it wasn't only the u.s. that kind of canceled the meeting. you know, president trump might have put the final stamp on it with those tweets, which i might say, you know, his team was caught flat footed. they didn't even know about this meeting. i think it complicates things for them. but he basically -- the taliban wasn't really thrilled about coming because they didn't want to be coming to meet with president trump before a deal was signed, and afghan president ghani didn't necessarily want to be here when he's not even negotiating with the taliban. so as you both -- as you and richard both said, there's no vision. there's no strategic plan, and certainly no consultations with the government, and it makes it more difficult now because i

think, you know, sal ka leo sad's team wants to go ahead and make this deal. president trump has tweeted before, and it hasn't really meant anything. they keep talking. so i think you can expect they will pick up talks again. >> yeah, and nick confessore, of course, there's always a tweet for every occasion, every occasion, and this is no exception either. of course let's put it up. while this was from 2012, january of 2012, while barack obama's slashing the military, he's also negotiating with our sworn enemy the taliban when facilitated 9/11. if only barack obama could have imagined that seven years later on the eve of the 9/11 anniversary donald trump would be escorting the taliban to camp

david to talk peace while undercutting our afghanistan allies would have been unimaginab unimaginable, and of course this comes the same week we find out that he i believe illegally steals money from the pentagon budget and from facilities for the children of our men and women who defend this country across the globe for a political project. i mean, it's, again, a tweet for every occasion. and this donald trump is trying desperately to leave afghanistan to the taliban, al qaeda and isis. >> peace talks happen with your enemies and not with your friends. so having the talks is not a problem in the first place. what we saw with the tweet this is morning though, or last night i should say is that the stated reason for pulling out of these talks was not the actual reason.

he's saying it has to do with the deaths of americans and these attacks in kabul, i believe, it's actually having to do with problems on his own team and divisions over the actual deal. we see him once again trying to pull himself out of a problem that he created with an obsession with the theater and the moment, the creating of a moment as opposed to sitting back and thinking is the moment worth having. and a good moment to have skprkts answ, and the answer is no. the air force has been gassing up at an airport that just so happens to be a short drive from a trump golf course in scotland. >> that doesn't make sense at all. >> now the military is investigating. yeah, it doesn't make any sense. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's how we bring real hope to our cancer patients- like viola. when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, her team at ctca created a personalized care plan that treated her cancer and strengthened her spirit.

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president trump's scotland resort while refueling at a small commercial airport nearby. "politico" reports that the house oversight committee sent a letter to the pentagon in june. according to the letter, the military has spent $11 million on fuel at the prestwick airport, the closest airport to trump turnberry. since october 2017, fuel that would be cheaper if purchased at a u.s. military base, "politico" reports that the letter also cites a "guardian" report that the airport provided cut rate rooms and free rounds of golf at turnberry for u.s. military members. taken together, the incidents raise the possibility that the military has helped keep trump's turnberry resort afloat. according to "politico," the property lost $4.5 million in 2017, but revenue went up 3 million in 2018. in a statement, the air force says it doesn't appear that any

regulations were broken, but it will review all guidance pertaining to selection of airports and lodging accommodations during international travels. jake, this report, i mean, the bottom line is they've never taken a route like this before, and it makes no sense if it's cheaper to do it elsewhere the way they've been doing it. >> yeah, listen, i mean, put this together with vice president mike pence staying at the president's resort in ireland last week when he was in ireland for official business. the point is the vice president's office said the president requested that they stay there. later, the vice president's office said they made this decision on their own. now, the fact is people do what donald trump wants, whether he says it explicitly or not. we know that from the last three years of this presidency. people know what he wants, and they do it. number two, all of these things that keep coming up, the staying at the president's resort, vice president mike pence staying at the president's resort, the g7,

donald trump pitching the g7 at his resort in miami at doral. put these all together and democrats are going to create or trying to create a convincing case that the president is profiting off the government. all of those things put together put into an impeachment investigation, impeachment inquiry could be a powerful tool for democrats, that's what they believe at this point. and remember, as congress comes back, democrats are inching closer and closer to launching a large impeachment probe, and they're going to vote this week on defining that probe, so you're getting much closer to this impeachment investigation and all these things are coming out are all going to be a part of that. >> well, and susan page, let's just line up the facts just from the past couple of weeks what we've seen. we've seen of course, the scottish resort losing money, so the air force takes this circuitous route that costs american taxpayers a lot more money. also, the nearby airport losing

money, the only airport that's close to this place, of course, so the air force comes, and they make -- and they make a ton of money off of it. we saw the same thing with ireland, that hardworking american taxpayers paying for mike pence and his how many people entourage was with him, a couple hundred rooms, i think. then you have the president at the g7, what's he talking about? taking next year's g7 to his property at doral. that is losing money, has lost a ton of money over the past couple of years. it wouldn't be very hard for members of the house or the senate to put together a list of abuses this president's made. look at the emoluments clause, and they could also look down at the other end of pennsylvania avenue and see what happens at trump hotel every night.

>> so here's a question that democrats are considering. you know, they were, i think, some congressional democrats are surprised that the allegations at cooperation with the russians in obstruction of justice in the special counsel's inquiry failed to really galvanize a majority of americans to support impeachment. if you take this different tact, which democrats are now taking, especially in the house, of looking at more familiar forms of official corruption, of things that make an official richer, plus the hush money payments during the campaign, that's another avenue that democrats are increasing. does that persuade public opinion in a way that the russia investigation does not? it does go to the heart of one of the strongest points that donald trump made during the 2016 campaign, and that was the chants of drain the swamp.

i think when americans look at some of these actions that have benefitted the president and his family and his business, that looks pretty swampy to them. >> yeah, and it -- the swamp levels keep rising, and you can look, of course at these specifics. you can look at, again, what we've seen over the past couple of weeks, whether it's ireland or his resort in scotland, whether it's the trump hotel, whether it's doral, all of these things losing money or most of them losing money, and you can add it up. and also, again, look at the foreign policy. it goes back to how you can explain everything in his foreign policy or just about everything as it pertains to money, whether it's russia and his son saying that before in the white house they got most of their money from russian investors or, my gosh, saudi arabia. why does he have such a close

r relationship with saudi arabia when the rest of the world has turned away from saudi arabia? the answer is very clear, he will not only did they put on that outrageous display for him when he visited saudi arabia, but also donald trump bragged. he bragged in the 2016 campaign that the saudis had given him hundreds of millions of dollars. so it all comes back to money. >> it sure does. >> and in these cases, in these cases, it's causing the taxpaye taxpayers, it's causing hardworking americans who are struggling to make ends meet every month. they're the ones who are paying this billionaire, lining this billionaire's pockets with more tax dollars, whether it's from the united states air force or whether it's from mike pence's entourage or whatever it's from. americans are struggling and donald trump's just using his

position and power to get richer in a way that violates the constitution. >> coming up on "morning joe," voters in north carolina head to the polls in a congressional election that could say a lot about the 2020 presidential race. we'll talk to candidate dan mccready next on "morning joe." my joints... they hurt.

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♪ i'm geoff bennett here on capitol hill for "morning joe." this morning congress reconvenes. you have both the house and the senate coming back here to washington. there are only about 40 days left in the congressional calendar before the end of the year, and it is a packed agenda. members have to fund the government. they have to figure out what to do, if anything, with the president's new trade deal, the usmca. they also have to figure out what to do with guns. democrats really spurred by the recent twin tragedies in texas and ohio are making another run at pushing gun control. it's something that has languished for some two decades really here on capitol hill. on wednesday the house judiciary committee plans to debate and

amend three new bills they want to send over to the republican-led senate. they want to look at ending a high capacity magazines. they also want to look at making a federal framework for so-called red flag laws. they're laws that would allow law enforcement officials and family members to petition a court to get guns away from people who might pose a threat to themselves and to others. i understand we have joe and mika back with us. as you well both know, the other thing we're looking for is to see what this committee does on impeachment because we've also learned that today we'll get a look at the resolution these members plan to vote on wednesday that will formalize their work, formalize this impeachment. that will really be welcomed news to those people that have watched this committee's work and they might have been frustrated and confused not only by the pace of this investigation but just what this committee is up to, guys. >> yeah, geoff, thank you, and joe, that is the -- you know, the issue as we look at these moves to formalize impeachment proceedings, but you know, when

the public is ready for that seems to be what a lot of leading democrats are looking for. and when republicans might want to step in and be involved. >> lots of luck on that. >> yeah. >> i don't think that's going to happen, rev. there continues to be this friction between nancy pelosi who interested in winning in 2020 and thinking that the -- and if you look at the polls, i mean, most americans do not want the democrats to get involved with impeachment proceedings, but a lot of the base does, and of course more importantly, a lot of the members feel they have a constitutional duty to do that. so how are democrats balancing these two competing interests? >> with a lot of difficulty they are trying to balance it. you have at one level a lot of democrats that are in districts that politically it is risky for them to go, but so far because they won districts in close

margins, many of them flipping districts that had been republican. so the politics speaks to one thing, but the actual protecting of the constitution speaks to another, and that is if with all of these clear allegations of obstruction and other improprieties, if you do not move toward impeachment now, when do you, and what is the basis of an impeachment proceeding in the future if you ignore all of the body of evidence that has been raised against this president to take it to its natural cost to see if, in fact, it is impeachable offenses. >> and this morning senator kamala harris has released her plan for comprehensive criminal justice reform seeking to overhaul the system that she views as broken and biased. harris's plan in part aims to significantly reduce the number of people incarcerated by ending mandatory minimum sentences,

legalized marijuana, fund reentry programs to reduce recidivism, bolster accountability for prosecutors and police. reverend al recently sat down with senator harris where she explained her plan in further detail. let's take a look. >> my plan is an extension of all my experiences plus what i know is achievable in terms of fixing a broken system. so there is an element of the plan that is about ending mass incarceration because america has a problem with mass incarceration. we have incarcerated disproportionately generations of men of color, black and brown men in particular, so that part of it is about dealing with sentencing reform. that part of it is dealing with what we need to do, which is to legalize marijuana. it is about dealing with what we are doing in materials of creating priorities and looking at the fact that the war on drug was a failure. we criminalized what was

otherwise a pick health issue and that needs to end. on the issue of law enforcement accountability, and it's both as it relates to police officers but also prosecutors, we need to make sure that the system is dealing with the abuses when they occur because you know, we have a criminal justice system where we often use the words accountability and consequence, but almost every time those words are used it is in connection with the person who was arrested, and we do not use that word in connection with the system as a whole. and is the system as a whole being held accountable, and is there consequence for bad behaviors within the system. my plan is saying that we need to have a national standard of force that is about necessary use of force, radight? in the case of the fatal shootings we have seen, my plan is about saying that there needs to be in the united states department of justice and an element from the civil rights division, that is about preparedness to investigate

patterns and practice of misconduct not only by police departments but also by prosecutors' offices because where that exists there should be some kind of investigation and some kind of consequence. my plan is about saying that we need to focus on children. so when i was attorney general of california, i ran the second largest department of justice in the united states of america, second only to the united states department of justice, and created in that department of justice the bureau of children's justice, focused on holding the stm accountable to what we should be doing to serve our children and give them the benefit of all the services they deserve. it is my intention to shut down private prisons and by extension, also those private e detention centers. here's the thing, the business model, let's step back and see what the business model is. it's about people making profit off the incarceration of other human beings. there should never be a profit associated with incarcerating

other human beings. >> so, rev, what was your take on kamala's approach to criminal justice reform? >> i was very interested in hearing what she had to say because as you know, i spent most of my life in the area fighting for criminal justice reform. i work with national action network, and i must say i was impressed with how detailed and different it was. she didn't just give the hashtag or slogan kind of heading. she talked about holding prosecutors which she was, as well as police accountable as well as what is fair for those that are crime victims. because what a lot of people forget is in communities of color, you have victims and you have those that have been treated wrongly by the criminal justice system, but that does not mean we do not want to see victims protected. she talked about taking the profit out of prisons.

she talked at length about how you legalize marijuana. i thought it was well thought out. i think she's unique in this race because she not only has been a prosecutor, but she's a black woman, and so she has looked at it on both sides. so frankly, i thought she'd have a decent plan, but it was above my expectations, and it's certainly a lot more detailed and different than a lot of the other candidates who have come out with criminal justice plans and it certainly hits a whole lot deeper into the core problems on both sides than the first step program that the president is tweeting about this weekend. >> okay. joining us now politics and journalism professor at mor began state university and an msnbc political contributor jason johnson. so jason, talk about how impeachment fits into the politics of all of this? when you see senator kamala harris going so in depth on an issue that is clearly so

important, one of the issues of our time, and yet you also have this happening in washington, some democrats wanting to push impeachment. how does it fit into the political conversation for candidates 2020? what we're heading towards is really the 11th hour here right? you have many candidates whether it's cory booker or senator kamala harris, you have many candidates that say look, we do think we should go forward with impeachment proceedings. they're about to head into primary season. if it's going to happen, it needs to happen soon. it needs to happen at a point when americans are going to be home watching television so they can see this process. if nancy pelosi does not push for this, there is no chance the candidates will even have time to go through the impeachment proceedings when they're going to be in primary states. >> let's talk about the primaries. we just heard kamala there. she obviously got a big bounce after her announcement and then again after the first democratic

debate. i've always found her position in the primary field very interesting. she jumped up after the first debate, started doing well, but she's dropped back down to about 6, 5, 6, 7%. it has to be very frustrating for her, but how does she catch fire? what's missing so far in that campaign that she's being eclipsed now not just by joe biden but also of course by elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. >> so basically, joe, her educated white women supporters have all been snatched by elizabeth warren. there was a recent poll that came out from essence magazine, the only area where harris really still leads a lot of her major competitors is amongst millennial african-american women. she's still sort of second to bernie sanders in that group. she is in a lot of trouble. her attempt to roll out this brand new criminal justice program is one of her ways of saying hey, i'm coming back into

this. i've got something to say, i'm an expert in this area. politically it's different. she's sort of like a burglar saying hey, let me set up your home security system. many liberals have said she is a part of the very criminal justice system she's now saying this is how i'm going to reform it. a lot of this is about senator harris convincing people she can initiate the changes she seemed to symbolically represent when she first got into the race. >> all right, jason stay with us. up next, we're going to talk to democratic candidate dan mccready of north carolina. he is running in a special congressional election set for tomorrow in a district that donald trump won by double-digits. and before we go to break, joe, at knowyourvalue.com. >> i go there ten times a day. >> casey had her baby. you know how like men are so good at self-promotion? they just talk about themselves forever and ever. they go on and on, they don't even know when they're doing it, they just self-promote. >> i hear some do that. >> yeah. >> they're really good at it,

very effective communicators when it comes to themselves so at knowyourvalue.com, we're talking about women learning how to be better self-promoters, talk about yourself, promote yourself, show your value, and articulate it, so we have a great piece on that and much more. it's all at knowyourvalue.com. "morning joe" is coming right back. so i can buy from

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president trump is hosting a rally in fayetteville, north carolina, later today in part to mobilize voters ahead of tomorrow's special election in the ninth congressional district. joining us the democratic candidate in that race, marine veteran dan mccready. he fell 905 votes short last year in an election that was overturned after state investigators concluded that the republican candidate's campaign had engaged in an illegal voting

scheme, and you're back at it. how is it looking, and any different approach, especially in light of the president bringing his platform to the area? >> well, the first thing is i'm just trying to wrap my head around election day being tomorrow. i've been in this campaign for 27 months, and we've got one day to go. looking forward to election day tomorrow. it's going to be very close. it's going to be very, very close. this is not even a district where a democrat is supposed to be competitive. this is a district that president trump won by almost 12 points, but we're tied. we've got a message about bringing this country together, and we've got an amazing grass roots team, and we're tied going into tomorrow. it's going to be very close. >> so dan, tell us you've been campaigning for 27 months. what is the issue you hear most often? what do people talk about? >> the biggest thing is people are tired of the broken partisan politics coming out of

washington. they're tired of it on both sides, joe. when i served over in the marine corps, i served in iraq. i had the opportunity to lead a platoon of 65 marines. we came from all over this country, and we really never cared about where you came from. we never cared about who your parents were or the color of your skin. the last thing we cared about was whether you were a republican or a democrat. we were all on the same team, and we put our country first, and we believed in a mission that was bigger than any one of us. that's what i think this country is all about, and that's what i think is missing in washington. i have to tell you, north carolinians are tired of the partisan in fighting, and they're looking for leaders who are going to work across the aisle and work together to take on the problems in their lives like health care costs that are really crushing north carolina families. >> reverend al has a question. >> as your constituents look at getting beyond the partisan fights, isn't it also a major

concern about the voting in terms of the undermining of the individuals use of the vote and being able to vote or something that has led to why you are having a special election tomorrow, how important is that to your campaign and to your constituents that in many ways their vote has been devalued and in some places suppressed? >> well, it's -- it's essential. this -- as i think you know, this is a tough campaign last time. this is a long and one of the toughest battles last november, and then we ran into them targeting the elderly. they targeted african-american voters. they targeted native american voters. they stole voters absentee ballots. they forged signatures for people. they filled in vote choices for people. they conducted what we know now is the largest case of election fraud in modern day american history, and it would have been

easy to throw in the towel after all that. i chose to fight. we chose to fight, and this election tomorrow is not just about working to the to lower health care costs and strengthen our public schools and take on so many issues that north carolinians are struggling with, this is about our right to vote. your right to vote is your most sacred right in this country, it's your voice. they stole that from people. tomorrow is the people's chance to get justice. >> wow. >> hey, jason, you have the next question. >> yes, so dan, look, i realize the challenge. you're trying to run a local election about kitchen table issues, but everybody here is trying to find some national significance in this race. when you're out talking to the community, what are you hearing is the number one complaint the voters have about this administration? is it the corruption? is it health care? because you're in a district where your victory will be dependent on some form of trump voters coming and voting for a democrat in a special election. >> well, the biggest things on voters' minds and the biggest

areas where voters are struggling as to washington policy are health care costs. i've conducted 25 town hall over the last two months on a education, and a whole set of town halls of health care. and i have to tell you most rooms i'm in, especially as you get east of charlotte into the rural counties that have been devastated economically because of the trade deals out of washington, most rooms i'm in, if i ask how many of you don't know if you're going to get hit with hundreds of dollars out-of-pocket this month because of health care costs and you don't know how you would pay for it, most people would raise their hands. i was with a woman last year who has type 2 diabetes. she's taken the same prescription drugs for years that she needs for her type 2 diabetes. the cost of her prescription drugs went up by 500% in a single year, and she's having to rely on skipping doses and relying on doctor samples to get

by. i have focused this race on lowering health care costs because the fact is we don't have to below up the system. all we have got to do is take on the drug companies. we've got to take on the special interests. we've got to fix the problems in the system, expand medicaid, and we can make sure that everyone americ every american has access to affordable and quality health care. >> dan mccready, thank you very much. we'll be watching what happens tomorrow, and obviously we asked the republican candidate dan bishop to be on the show, we didn't hear back from his campaign. thanks very much. up next, we're going to talk to the former general counsel of noaa after an internal memo from the weather agency instructed staff not to contradict the president. keep it right here on "morning joe." the mobile app makes it easy to manage your policy, even way out here. your marshmallow's... get digital id cards, emergency roadside service,

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e-mail obtained by the paper, the staff was also told not to provide any opinion. the message came just hours after trump claimed that alabama would most like i will be hit by hurricane dorian harder than expected. it was false. and they tweeted that alabama would not see impact from the hurricane. noaa is not the first agency in the trump administration to publicly side with the president after he doubled down on a widely disputed claim. the paper notes it was unprecedented in the organization's history and threatens to politicize the weather forecast. a spokesperson said nss leadership sent this guidance so they and the entire agency could maintain operational focus on

dorian and other severe weather hazards without distraction. joining us now, monica modina. so monica, i guess i'll start with you given your former affiliation with noah. how is this possible and how do they have any credit ability. it is so important for us to get the forecast right. we write our plan every said to tell the stories and make sure the public understands the sporps of these forecasts. dollarly now with climate change taking hold and us sees the

impact of the sorms getting more dangerous. it is really important that everyone to the forecasters like the great ones here on nbc, stay on the same page. >> it is not a real threat to the public when we politicize how reports go in terms of climb and weather? we're talking about people in danger. >> that is right, and that is the importance of our upcoming forum, we want to ensure that the candidates running to challenge president trump want to take these issues seriously. they want to ensure that our agencies take these issues seriously. so that lives are not put in jeopardy unnecessarily.

and the forecasts of the hurricanes is getting more difficult. >> and to jump in there. >> they took risks getting on their roofs and battening down the hatches. i would characterize this as pathetic. this is not politicizing, this is lying to the american people. >> i just want to ask you quickly. for the average viewer, it is hard to determine what is a good plan and what isn't. for someone just saying let's use plastic straws, and somebody with a plan for next year. >> i think one of the key

factors is looking at how each of the candidates is looking to it. a lot of the plans are going to be dependent on executive action. additionally i think it is critical that we pay attention to how these candidates are looking to address front line communities and communities of color. they are in the path of storms where sea level rises happen at an accelerated rate, and they don't always have the resources necessary to pick up and move, so any plan that doesn't focus on that is dangerous. >> thank you both so much, as

she mentioned, they will be partners with us for the upcoming climate forum coming up on september 19th and 20th. >> you know, you just to say and it makes no sense for donald trump to stay on this, you can call it fake news, americans that are not engaged they can be fooled some of the time, but when you're talking about a weather forecast, meteorologists, this is not nonsense, this is just the president hurting himself and his own future political prospects. >> and it indicates that he

would lie. it's a 62, mr. president, not an 82. >> i always found the sixes were the easiest to turn into eights. >> everybody, we should be paying attention to the beginning of the climate crisis and what is happening in the bahamas right now in is going to start happening in the united states in is the number one thing we should be focusing on. >> that does it for us. hi, i'm stephanie ruhl, here is what is happening now. congress is returning today with a long list of things to do. all while continuing to