dealers. >> we have nothing left. all of our homes are destroyed. we have nowhere to go. >> that does it for us. we wanted to show you that. and don't go anywhere because "hardball" with chris matthews live from the democratic debate is next. fight night. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews down in houston, texas, anding something's got to give tonight. can the democratic left led by joe biden continue to dominate the 2020 nomination fight? can biden show the stuff he needs tonight that he can win this thing? well, it's the first time former vice president joe biden takes the stage with both of his two closest rivals. he'll be up there on stage, there he is, joined center stage by senators elizabeth warren and

bernie sanders right next to him. also tonight trump is in baltimore, a city he trashed as a disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess during this summer. his in the gutter tweets for congressman elijah cummings that earned him some rebuke. and days after firing his national security advisor there's more evidence today the white house all over the place, in total chaos when it comes to domestic and even foreign policy. we begin tonight with the fight here in houston. all eyes will be on the first face-off between those two joe biden and elizabeth warren. it also brings the divide within the moderate and progressive wings of the parties front and center literally right on the stage tonight for three hours. senator warren has risen 7 points since memorial day. that's a good climb for the summer. and the boston globe reports

warren's successful summer makes her a target tonight. quote, she will arrive with momentum on her side and a bulls eye on her back. biden and other candidates have taken thinly veiled shots at her in recent days saying the party's nominee must have more than just ambitious plans. he endorsed biden and of course take aim at warren today. in an op-ed in "the washington post" he called warren a hypocrite forswearing off big money fund raisers. which he criticized as a, quote, swanky private fund-raiser for wealthy donors. here's more from rendel. suddenly we were power brokers and influence peddlers in 2019, the year before we were wonderful, i cochaired one of the events for the senator and received a glowing hand written letter from her for my hard

work. let me ask you guys about the fight tonight. is biden going to go on the offensive? >> i think he is. i think he has to show she's on the offensive. going beyond just one candidate or two candidates. folks are looking to see whether the former vice president has jo mojo, if he's got the energy and also you've been seeing them continue to have bigger poll numbers combined than biden has. the left between the two of them has basically about 34%, 35%. he's got like 26%, 27% according to that real clear politics average. that's going to take some punches. he's going to have to get out there and make a vibrant case for his candidacy and even if he

says it's not inkrecremental it something less than what elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are selling. >> you've got kamala harris' people out there. you attack the progressive left for pushing too much stuff and the young people out there especially saying what's the problem for the old guy? >> and his campaign saying things like the democratic primary leck trts is not made up of everyone woman on twitter. it tends to be older. he's thinking i think longer term strategy. what he's going to try to do as we've seen in the past is build on that obama reputation he's built-up. what i've heard from the campaign she's going to make this argument if we want change we can't look to the past. >> okay, so she got a lot of points back in june for going

after biden in the first debate, then she seemed to have a fall today. is that a danger this time? >> i think that's exactly right. she had this sort of small boost right after it happened but she since has tumbled in the polls whereas joe biden has stayed relative to where he's been all along. i don't think that means we're not going to see her try it again. >> we've all been watching politics for a long time. it seems to me if you take the first punch, the people root for the one you're punching. they don't like aggressive behavior in the democratic party against other democrats but if you defend yourself, you're god. i'm just suggesting strategy tonight. isn't biden better taking a punch and defending himself in. >> we've seen the ways in which he tried and failed to defend himself in the past. he ran out of time in the first debate. >> he was the timekeeper. >> he couldn't really defend his record because the record is there.

that's something hard to argue against when that's what you have to show for yourself. >> let me ask you about warren. she is winning. if you just do a projection line from now to next february, this february, she's going to be on top. is it in her interest to just let it go the way it's going, don't attack, just keep surfing up higher and higher so by the time it's february 3rd in iowa, she's number one? >> she's the only candidate in this race consistentlying about oth other people meaning the voters. you saw in the last two debates, she didn't have to get into fights with anybody else. so that question who gets hurt when there's a fight between two candidates is the one that does the punching and the one who takes the punch, she's not saying this candidate is bad, that candidate is bad, i'm doing great. she's been able to float above it all this time. she's got a pretty good crew so far. >> how long can this little

sweetheart relationship between her and this clever politics -- she keeps loving bernie to death. so she's all the time absorbing bernie's voters, pulling them over. at some point bernie is going to recognize maybe tonight she's stealing my lunch. >> i think that they could team up to go against someone like joe biden because that's where the voters are they could pull from. not necessarily from each other but someone like joe biden and that's what the polls show time and time again. >> i love my favorite question. who's got the most at stake tonight? biden? >> everybody below the top five, everybody below -- yeah, they've got to make something. >> someone like beto o'rourke whose campaign -- >> so they're going to be shooting for everybody. >> i think someone like beto o'rourke has tried to stay above the fray and tonight is a do or die moment and he's in his home state. >> going for the fences, cory

booker because he always goes for the fences. it's a good prediction. thank you guys. tonight, well it won't be the first time former vice president joe biden and elizabeth warren have faced off because back in 2005, 14 years ago then harvard law professor elizabeth warren and senator biden sparred in the senate judiciary hearing over the bankruptcy bill. let's watch the old fight. >> there are many in the credit industry right now who are getting their bankruptcies prepaid, that is they have squeezed enough out of these families in interest and fees and payments that -- >> maybe that's what you need to talk about, not bankruptcy. >> senator, i'll be the first -- >> your problem with the credit card companies is usury rates from your position, it's not about the bankruptcy bill. >> but, senator, if you're not going to fix that problem you can't take away the last shred

of protection from these families. >> you're very good at professing. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> joining me right now is kate bettingfield. i'm glad we got you tonight. how's it going to be different for joe biden? the first one didn't look good and looked a little bit better in the second one. is this his top game yet? >> he's going to make the case about talking big plans and getting things done. i think he's the person on that stage that has the longest track record, the strongest track record of getting real progressive change done. you're going to hear him tonight make a case for not just talking big things but getting big things done. >> elizabeth warren she's talking about medicare for all, and yet so far she hasn't answered the question of what it

will cost. right now you pay $1.50 for every $100 you make for medicare tax. how much do you think her program will cost the average taxpayer? >> she actually hasn't said how she's going to -- >> >> i know. >> we know senator sanders has said it's going to mean a tax increase on middle tax families. so significant cost. and i think you're going to hear vice president biden draw those policy distinctions tonight. he believes drawing on obamacare and adding a public option is getting help to people who need it now quickly and that's not going to mean a tax burden on families. >> how about a tax on trump tonight because it seems to me the courts may strike down obamacare completely. i may be making your argument for you, what are the republicans who say they're going to protect pre-existing conditions and young adults in

their early 20s for insurance coverage when it's all gone? >> that's exactly right. we fought an election in 2018 largely on this very issue. and part of the reason democrats were able to win the house back was because they were making the strong case for protections obamacare has meant for working people, middle class families. that's something obviously vice president biden was integral in getting that done and that's been a cornerstone of his campaign and something you're going to hear him talking about tonight. >> as long as bernie and elizabeth are dividing up the progressive vote you guys can win. but the minute bernie drops out or elizabeth drops out it's you against the progressive left which is beating you right now 2 to 1. how do you beat a united left? >> i think what you're seeing in the polls today is actually more democrats are aligned with the kinds of policies and the argument that joe biden is making than they are with, you know, as you would describe the far left of the party.

>> i would say another point that vice president biden will make tonight is to reject the notion that the things he's putting forward are incremental. i think there's this kind of preoccupation about a divide between candidates on the left and candidates on the center. i think when we're out on the campaign trail talking to voters they're not coming up and asking joe biden where do you fall on the ideological spectrum. they're asking how are you going to shore up my health care, how are you going to combat climate change? i think one of the things you're going to hear tonight is him reject the notion he's going to put forward anything incremental. >> he's going to accuse all the democrats of being socialists, of big spenders, open borders and late term abortion, the whole thing but joe biden is not going to say i'm part of them. he's going to separate from those candidates. >> people know him. they know what he stands for.

they believe he has character and empathy and he's the polar opposite of what donald trump is offering right now. >> can joe biden win if he doesn't win in iowa? >> yes, absolutely. but, look, it's very clear this is going to be a long campaign. you have a lot of candidates who have said that they are looking to go the distance. we think that, you know, the nomination runs through south carolina and super tuesday, and that, you know, a diverse coalition is an important part of becoming the democratic nominee. >> so a lot of weekends with bernie from now on. see that movie? thank you so much. right now president trump is in baltimore, the city he called a disgusting rodent infested mess. i'm sure they're welcoming him. american cities are one of his favorite targets and now reportedly going to war with california over the problem of homelessness. instead of attacking the underlying cause of homelessness, reports say he's looking for simplistic solutions, big surprise. plus the democrats

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welcome back to "hardball." in just a few minutes president trump will address house republicans at their annual retreat up in baltimore, maryland. it's the president's first trip to the city of maryland since he attacked it and its representatives and the congress especially congressman elijah cummings of the senate earlier this summer. it started with trump referring to baltimore as a quote, disgusting rat and rodent infested mess. saying, quote, no human being would want to live there, a human being, nice phrase. he called the congressman from that city who had just ramped up

investigations into the president a racist and blamed him for the problems in baltimore. let's watch. >> those people are living in hell in baltimore. it's a corrupt city, there's no question about it. billions and billions of dollars have been given to baults more. it's been misspent, it's been missing, it's been stolen with a lot of corrupt government. and as you know cummings has been in charge. >> well, the president took another swipe at the congress from baltimore last month following reports that he, his home had been burglarized. the president wrote on twitter, quote, really bad news, sar castly. the baltimore house of elijah cummings was robbed, too bad. that sarcastic comment didn't sit well with some of trump's republican allies, nikki haley, trump's former ambassador to the u.n. tweeted this is so unnecessary. and adam kinsonger wrote this is so beneath the office you hold,

it's childish and getting really old. ev even after all that he wrote, quote i hope he gets a chance to see quite a bit of baltimore because it's a beautiful city, which it is. it's hard not to believe, michael, my friend that that was a racist shot against the city of baltimore which was majority african-american and that no human being would live there, okay, then who's living there? your thoughts. >> no, i agree completely and it's stunning that the president who, yes, baltimore has its challenges like every major urban center does, and we can break the down along partisan lines if you want to get partisan. democrats have run the city for well over 60 years, republicans have not. okay, we can do all that but you

bring solutions and talk about the city to help it get off its knees after tough times. bad leadership, poor decision making, all of those things are there. but that's not what the city is looking for. they're not looking for abuse and blaming. they're looking for leadership that can help it turn a corner. it's a beautiful city, strong economic face, vibrant businesses trying to grow, an educational system that is spotty here and there but needs a lot of help. all these factors are there and available for the president to be a champion of the city, not someone who puts it down as a place that no human being would live. and his coming there today, chris, is not there to take a walk about as i invited him to do when i was in the city a few weeks ago or to sit down with the city leadership to talk about some very things that were put on the table. he's there to meet with republicans to talk about whatever republicans are going to talk about, which will not be baltimore city.

>> you know, derek, going after elijah cummings and i know him pretty well, he's a very respected public official, a fine man in many, many ways and everybody looks up to him. everyone thought he could have been elected maryland u.s. senator if he ethen thought about it. what does it say about trump? >> it shows a lack of character he has an individual. any time he feels threatened and under attack he'd go to middle school antics and words and that's something we should no longer tolerate as a nation. >> i mind have said 8 years old and you're giving him high school. house republican leader kevin mccarthy defended the president's past comments about baltimore and said his appearance at the republican retreat tonight shows he really

cares about baltimore. here he goes. >> i think the president coming here symbolizes, yes, he cares about baltimore, he cares about the people who live in baltimore and he does not accept you have to stay in poverty. he's found hez entire life how to bring people out of poverty, give them a better opportunity, and that's what he's doing in his job as president. >> let me go back to my friend michael about an issue which is certainly apparent in most major cities now, homelessness. if some of it's drug problems, some just people had bad breaks in life. who knows what the rest is about, mental problems perhaps, well, certainly. what do you think of it, a big, big place to put everybody? >> yeah, institutionizing everybody is not dealing the problem. throwing people out of a city or putting more homeless people into a city to prove a political point is not solving the problem. the question is particularly as we look at urban centers more

and more increasingly jen triified where the poor and miseducated, underagyicated individuals, low skill workers are pushed over the edges and forced into these situations because you want to put the really sexy coffee shop in the neighborhood, that's great. but why can't everybody in the neighborhood benefit from that? why do people find themselves losing their homes, losing their jobs and losing their ability to stay where they are? so that impacts my first point, an opportunity for the president to present real solutions that republicans like jack kemp who would look at a city of baltimore and go, man, what a diamond in the rough, what we could do here to really turn this city around with, with those folks leading the charge, chris, not the government. and i think that that's something that, again, is a missed opportunity. >> who's jack kemp today?

>> man, okay, you're being funny now, right? >> you haven't thought about that because what happened to the republican moderates who was pro-diversity or pro-minorities like jack kemp was. he was part of the community, a good guy on everything like that. >> you know, in fact the naacp, we had a relationship with jack kemp. we had several members on our board and so it was easy for us to reach out and talk to the moderates. i don't think that no longer exists particularly in the senate and definitely not the house. and that's the sad state of where we are in this current environment. the complete loss of civility, our complete inability for people to reach across communities, to reach across the aisle. we cannot truly be the great nation that we claim to be if we continue down this road. >> let me ask you, you're a

republican still. i want to keep up the date on that. you're still republican. do you think you can shake off this legacy after maybe eight years of this guy, who knows? eight years of this guy identifying the republican party as basically the white supremacists, that's what he's doing. he trashes all the other minority groups, basically circling the wagons on the travel lines. can the republican party shake loose of that legacy if it lasts another five years? >> it's going to be hard as hell to do, chris. i'm a little bit like motel 6, someone's got to keep the lights on. and i think there are those of us out here who really believe the foundational principles and ideals that drew me to the party, that drew me as a young man to the party are still valid. i refuse to have trumpism define a way, the legacy of reagan, define away the legacy of jack kemp, define away the legacy of so many other smart individuals

who helped put brick by brick, you know, what became the republican party and was successful for many, many years in many communities across the country. think a lot of folks with the retirements you're seeing certainly someone like nikki haley going down the road going i don't know if i want to be a part of that. >> sometimes you remind me of those japanese soldiers on those islands who continue to fight decades after world war ii. thank you, michael steele, derek johnson. up next, are democrats serious about impeachment or not? democrats on the house judiciary committee for example say they're moving the process forward but speaker pelosi is not even using the word impeachment. one hois member who's already come out in favor of impeachment joins me next. you're watching "hardball." impt joins me next. you're watching "hardball. a way to create energy from household trash.

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real change begins immediately with the repealing and replacing of the disaster known as obamacare. i never said repeal and replace obamacare. you've all heard my speeches. i've never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days. now, i have to tell you it's an unbelievably complex subject. nobody knew that health care

could be so complicated. >> welcome back to "hardball." nobody knew health care could be so complicated. president trump has been all over the map when it comes to repealing and replacing obamacare after his republican congress failed to repeal the health care law and democrats successfully centered the 2018 mid-terms around improving obamacare. trump's justice department took the side of republican governors in their lawsuit to overturn it, to declare it unconstitutional. in april the president caught his party off-guard by tweeting the republicans are developing a really great health care plan that will be far less expensive and much more usable than obamacare. well, he promised a vote would be taken right after the election and the republican party will be known as the party of great health care. but gnaw reality. "the washington post" rrting the trump administration has moved away from seeking an obamacare replacement. and instead focused on damage control. will the judge rule next month to topple the entire obamacare

law. "the washington post" notes a ruling against obamacare would put the white house and department of health and human services in a tight spot politically forcing officials to answer questions about what would happen to the millions of people who rely on provisions in the aca itself? this is far from the only chaotic policy move from the white house lately. this comes as politico reports trump's top advisers are rushing to find an escape hatch for a series of tariff increases in the coming months worried about the potential for further economic damage. and new reporting that trump may have swung so widely on the topic he's actually found himself on a similar view with barack obama. and that's up next. they're all over the place and no place. you're watching "hardball." plad no place you're watching "hardball. ♪

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when they make the iran deal they give them $150 billion of

tariffs. how stupid are we to allow this to happen? our leaders are incompetent. the ridiculous deal when they were given $150 billion. this is what happens when you make bad deals, they become emboldened because they think you're stupid people. they became emboldened with all the money, all of the humiliation, we gave them $150 billion back and they become nastier. >> welcome back to "hardball." president trump frequently criticizes former president obamacare for the iran nuclear deal including a provision that gave iran what he called billions of dollars in sanctions relief in esh change for agreeing to curb its nuclear program. well, now the daily beast is reporting that trump is activel ectee extend a $15 billion credit line to the iranians.

it would require the trump administration to issue waivers on iranian sanctions ironically during his time in office president obama followed a not dissimilar approach to bring the iranians to the negotiating table. i'm joined now by shannon pettypiece, and former republican congressman david jolly. david, i want you to take a big bite out of this thing. why is trump getting nervous? has he actually grown up enough to know we might face a nuclear program from iran if we don't go back to the deal? bring them back to the deal. >> i think that might give them too much credit, yes, they understand the complexities of his deal. i think what you're seeing is a continued repetition of is to b glass if you hump humpty-dumpty analogy.

he doesn't actually have a policy to do that and he's not surrounded now by people with the competence to do it. i think what we're seeing with iran is simply a president who tries to reach for a deal, reach for a legacy moment but what has become increasingly apparent time after time again is there's no there there. especially a president who's all -- >> sometimes you ask for it and you wish you hadn't got the old chinese curse. thers a chance obamacare will be struck down by the supreme court. what happens when all these people with pre-existing conditions, all those young adults whose parents wanted to make sure they're still insured for health care, all that goes caput, and all those people in the tens of millions are sitting out there facing this election with no health care. is that what republicans have any idea they're facing?

shannon? >> as you notice in 2020 so right as the election is approaching you could have a bit of chaos in the health care system. this administration, though, has already done so much to get rid of obamacare and destabilize the system and sort of leave obamacare in tatters in a lot of ways that for many people it feels like a slow motion train wreck for them. they have been seeing their costs go up already and their plans change and losing benefits even though the administration says they're doing things on the periphery and on the edges with small businesses like group buying plans. health care is supposed to be one of the number one issues for voters in the 2020 election. it would be terrible timing. there are people in this administration who are so fundamentally against obamacare they've been pushing even this court ruling that could throw out the whole plan and scrapping it together because they feel no obamacare is better than any obamacare even though they've gotten so much of it taken care of already. >> david, you know the trumpian

mind i believe. how can a trumpite, a person who's loyal to him to a fault believe the absolute b.s. of having protection for people with pre-existing conditions, diabetes for example when there's no plan left to get it from? they have not replaced and repeal, there is no replacement. how can he say our plan will protect you if there isn't a plan? how could they fall for it? it's not there. >> yeah, chris, the thread that brings all of trumpism together and i think the democratic candidates tonight and the eventual nominee should speak on this. trump is a fraud on all things, from iran, and mexico is going to pay for the wall and obamacare repeal and replace. not only is it the republicans attorneys general suing to validate the law, not only is it trump's department of justice who says you need to validate it

but the republican congress, the tax bill that donald trump tells that included the provision that gives these attorneys the ammo to undermine it, this notion that the tax law no longer covers the validity of obamacare. and so i think democrat candidates need to do is yes hit policy, health care is number one. and we know for the first time in ten years costs are continuing to go up, but you've got to drill down to trumpism and at its base he's a fraud, a huckster, somebody with whom you can't put your trust. so if you're a trump voter he had broken his promises to you including on health care. >> well, that's a problem for members of the house. john, you covered this. what are members of the republican house trying to fight them for their seats back or hold onto what seats are left but they have to go ought to their voters, real voters and the real voters say we don't have protection for pre-existing conditions and we don't have protection for our young adult children because you don't have

a replacement. >> it's now about mid-september. there are i believe less than 40 days left in a congressional legislative session before we get into 2020. no legislation is going to be passed in 2020 because house members will be too afraid to vote for anything that close to the election cycle. so nothing is going to get done in congress. whether the fifth circuit throws out obamacare or if not, there is still a major problem with health care in this country. and i was just having a conversation with someone the other day in an airplane who asked me, they said it's $1,500 a month for their health insurance and asked me is there anything going to be done about it soon and i thought about it and said no, there's nothing in the works to help you with your $1,500 a month health care bill. so that's really where we're at, and i think there are some

things the administration can try and do around the edges here and there but it is going to be in the periphery and i don't think there's much way around it or to change that narrative when people are concerned about their health care costs. >> let's get back to iran for a bit. that was a big part of the campaign. david jolly, i'm trying to figure out what trump is up to. the word is he will spirit the french plan to try to get the iranians back to the table and comply with the nuclear bill so they won't be building nuclear weapons. is all this to protect jared's chances, his son-in-law's chances of cooking together -- you're laughing -- a middle east deal, i'm sorry the thing is crazy. it's crazy. we're going to bring the iranians in now on a way of denying the palestinians their

homeland. nobody is going to agree to such a deal. no person in the middle east would agreto give away the territories, that's the end of a two state solution. i don't get this guy at all on any front. he's not a hawk, a neo-con. one day he's kissing up to john bolton and the next day kicking him out the front door. >> he's a man desperate for a win. consider all the bluster the entire three years he tried to control the narrative as it comes to russia and the meddling and interference with russia and his unwillingness to confront russia. what he did to break up the traditional alliance with nato and what he came in, what he did with north korea reaching for a deal, what he did in syria saying he was going to be different than obama. and now when it comes to the middle east and particularly the

iran deal and jared is going to solve middle east peace. if you look at the last three years the president has been a failure and he's desperate for a legacy moment. and the interesting thing on this to your point, chris, i think he's so ignorant on the complexity of middle east peace as well as the complexity of the domestic politics when it comes to iran and israel he's already stumbled a few times when it comes to the domestic policies around policy related to israel, and he very well might stumble again. he's gotten a pass the past few times but it'll be interesting if he suggests because he's going to strike a deal with iran. he may be able to actually erode his domestic support. >> i've got to tell you it's going to screw up anyone who considers for israel. he's talking about the jordan valley, giving it to israel. at the same time things that's going to be underwritten by the

m moolahs who spent everything they can to undermine izareal. it's petty talk. thank you for this interesting conversation. up next impeachment light. the democrats in the house judiciary committee voted to move the process forward, maybe, but it's very different than what we've seen in the past. and speaker pelosi is not even using the word impeachment. a congresswoman on the judiciary committee joins me next. you're watching "har"hdball. om . because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

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into a president have traditionally been launched with a full vote in the house of representatives. we saw that take place in 1974 when the house of ou representatives voted 410-4 to investigate president nixon. similar in october of 1998 the full house authorized the impeachment probe of then president clinton voting 258 to 176. but this time the speakerf the house is opposing a formal impeachment proceedings. perhaps she couldn't get a majority even if she tried. this raises the question what we should make of thetion action oe house judiciary committee for

what the chair jerry nadler is calling an impeachment inquiry of the president. is this a real thing or a means of pacifying voters hungry for action? here's how ranking member doug collins of georgia clashed with chairman nadler in today's od hearing. >> some call this process an impeachment ifquiry, some call r it an impeachment investigation. there's no legal difference between these terms and i no longer care to argue about the nomenclature. >> the difference between formal impeachment proceedings and what we're doing today is a world apart from what the chairman said. this is not anything special. >> while the democrats today voted to step towards possible impeachment, they don't appear t to have the support they need on the floor of the house. by nbc's count only 35 members have expressed public support of an impeachment. i'm joined right now by u.s.

congressman dean from pennsylvania who serves on the house judiciary committee. congresswoman, thank you for coming. what do f we make given the fac there's been no resolution by the majority the house represents to begin a formal inquiry of impeachment. >> we passed a resolution that really set forth the procedure for us moving forward with an impeachment investigation. we have been investigating the v wrongdoing of this oi administration since march, but this really sets forth in a muci clearer way the fact we are in an impeachment investigation. unfortunately ranking member in collins is just wrong. this a really grave serious moment and i don't think that the republican members of our committee should make light of k it, that we are in a moment where we have to investigate for

purposes of analyzing whether we will bring forward articles of impeachment, the corruption of e this president. we're going beyond the four corners of the mueller document. i'm very pleased with that. we're looking now w what the w president has done in terms of pay off, pardon, profiteering. what we did today was an important grave step to analyze for t people we're in robust impeachment investigation. >> but how do you do that without a resolution by the house? >> that's not necessarily historically. we don't need a full vote of th house for us to do our work.ur in fact, in the nixon n administration the house judiciary committee then withouh power of subpoena, the rules have changed in the meantime, worked for five to six months investigating prezzen nixon, so

that's just a false notion people have that you must have s vote first in the house. we actually have thethe job, w have the jurisdiction in judiciary to investigate the wrongdoing of this president. >> i agree with that.gr there was a lot of investigation leading to nixon's impeachment or almost impeachment when he left office. but you get into this detail and it was started by senator kenny and he did all the laying out and the whole thing, sure.th but the problem you're facing m here is how do you proceed do towards impeachment, not investigation, not getting a lot of mud on the president's face. he deserves all of it, you're doing good work, but why do youy call it impeachment if it's not going to lead to impeachment. how's it going to get there to the full house?fu how does it really happen? >> let's be real clear i take no pride in putting mud on anyone's face. what i do take seriously is up holding the constitution, the rule of law. we get the evidence before us,

and we get the evidence before e the american people. how about paying off mistresses days before a national election for president? how about the profiteering, the violation of the emoluments clause. i'm very happy we'll have next week cory lewandowski on the 17th and the obstruction of tr justice he was asked to participate in is well versed in the mueller report and later r this month we'll be looking at th th the eemoluments clause. the founders of our country anticipated that someone could e possibly hold this office and th seek to get rich. this president is seeking payments in violation of both emoluments clauses in our constitution, and we need to stop it. >> why is speaker pelosi and majority leader hoyer saying this is not impeachment? >> i actually don't agree with what you're saying.sa if you saw speaker pelosi and she said this consistently over the course of many months, she

said we are legislating, which we are doing and i would love to talk to you about the important legislation we passed this weekp regarding guns and the environment. we are litigating. you've seen we have been in court up holding the rule of law, but we are also so investigating. she says those three things every single time. and what she has said is bring the case to the american people and we will go where those facts take us. >> thank you. i agree with everything you're doing except calling it impeachment if it's not going oo happen. thank you very much. you're watching "hardball." thank you very much. you're watching "hardball. moving on up. or making big moves. deliveries ship free and come with a 100-night free trial. no matter your budget. or your sleep style. we have quality options for everyone. so search and shop. save and snooze. and rest easy, knowing that we've got your back. literally. that's what you get, when you've got wayfair. so shop now.

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stay with msnbc tonight for our special analysis and coverage of the third democratic debate here in houston, texas, tonight. coverage starts at 11:00 p.m. eastern tonight. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. on "all in." >> this investigation will allow us to determine whether to recommend articles of impeachment with respect to president trump. >> the judiciary committee moves forward on an impeachment investigation. >> legislate, investigate, litigate, that's the path we have been on. >> as republicans challenge democrats to bring a vote to the house floor. >> i dare you to do it. in fact i double dog dare you. >> tonight, what happens next in the house and exactly what democrats are plainto