the norm. that the air force, it had never been reported before that the air force was, in fact, staying at this resort. >> stay on it. you are a great reporter. thank you so much for being on tonight. appreciate it. that is it for "all in" this evening. catch me on my show. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening. >> good evening, joy. thank you, my friend. much appreciated. looking forward to seeing your show tomorrow. >> thank you. appreciate it. and this hour, first to tell you right off the bat that massachusetts senate and democratic presidential candidate elizabeth warren is going to be here not tonight. also not monday. but on tuesday of next week. we have just locked in an interview date for nasenator elizabeth warren live in studio with me tuesday night. far as we can tell the reason she'll be in new york early next week and therefore available to come to the studio, she's apparently planning a big speech

in a dramatic setting monday evening. elizabeth warren's campaign is planning a big speech by their candidate in washington square park in greenwich village in the heart of downtown new york city promoting this a while on facebook and otherwise to their supporters. it hasn't had any press pickup as far as i can tell but clear from the organizing effort they expect it to be a landmark event, a time, place and setting that could result in a very, very big turnout. e we think that's why she's here. monday night in new york city, elizabeth warren and we'll have her on the show the day after on tuesday. i want to tell you that top of the show. we're going to start tonight's news here in climber fear garton pa kleiner tier garton park i think that's how you say it in central berline right by the, looks like

spree river i think germans say it schpray. looks like shprix. by the river that runs through the heart of berlin, and the park is directly down the road from the german parliament and chan chancellery where angela markle has her office. a nice spot. three weeks ago, friday august 23rd a nice day to be out in the park in central berlin. temps low 80s. sunny day, lots of people out and about enjoying the summer weather. just before noon that day three weeks ago two 17-year-olds who were out in kliner tier garden park saw something strange happen. saw a guy ride up on an ebike, right up to the edge of the schpray river and right in front of them threw his ebike into the river. then they say they thought they

also saw him maybe throw some sort of a bag and maybe also a wig -- i mean if that was you 17 year s old, random park on a summer day friday, when i was 17 i would think it was hilarious, i thought everything was hilarious, no matter your age you would think is a suspicious. in any kay they flagged down a cop and he wei detain and eventually pulled an ebike out of the riveriver. reportedly recover the wig and a glock handgun with a silencer screwed on to it and a bag that among other things included reportedly a package of paprika, theorized to throw sniffer dogs off the scent. he did not end up getting chased by police dogs because just

regular police officers caught him right away. police later pieced this together what happened in the few minutes before those 17-year-olds saw this guy throwing all of this junk into the river, the story was almost unbelievably dramatic, because what had apparently happened just before this guy was seen throwing stuff into the river and getting picked up by police what had happened just immediately before that is that allegedly he had just kill add gadd -- killed a guy in the park in what was what you call a bike-by shooting. "wall street journal" wrowc"wa" sped towards his victim and shot the man twice in the head way glock 26 handgun fitted with a silencer. the "new york times" account, after the shots to the head the killer biked away a few hundred yards south to the river bank. when he threw all the stuff in the river then according to the

"times," "police found the suspect in nearby shrubs." in the busheswhat was he doing there? changes hid his clothes and appearance and seemed ready to ride on a scooter. how the guardian newspaper in london flushes that out. "theat "the alleged assassin changed had is outfit to blend in as a tourist wearing a pink shirt, and a shirt containing a passport and a large amount of cash." so he goes and -- allegedly, kills the guy. races to the river. throws, takes his wig off throws it into the river, the bike, the gun, a bag into the river rushing into the underbrush. changes his clothes, and starts to get on a scooter that he stashed in the bushes to ride away. i mean, dresses up in the pink

getupping whoing totally different than he did before we they find him in the bushes. we know the bit about the bike and then changing over into the scooter definitely that's legit in part because german police since released these weird very well-lit modern art-like photos of the actual bike that they pulled out of the river. on the left. and the escooter that he had with him in the bushes when they caught limb there changing into his pink shirt and tourist sandals after he had taken off his wig. german police released this photo of the suspect who they arrested although did not release his name according to multiple reports german police didn't release his name because they have actually no idea what his name is. and at this point in the defective the story if you read detective stories you know the good plot shifts to the victim to to figure out what happened with this crime now that we're this far with the alleged perpetrator.

the man killed in the park was walking across the work just before noon on a sunny day in capital city in a western european country just steps ay way from the seat of government. right? he's walking through the park, his assassin approaches from behind on an ebike shoots him from behind at least twice in the head perhaps additionally in the shoulder. the guy on the ebike rides off several hundred yards towards the river. the man who was killed, the man who died in the park was reportedly a 40-year-old citizen of the nation of georgia. ethnically chechen in the early 2000s and big separatist uprising of chechens against russia reportedly a mid-level demander who led chechen forces in battle against russian soldiers and a close associate of an anti-russian chechen leader who would go on to be president of chechnya for a time. even after russia put town that uprising in the early 2000s this young commander continued to be -- i guess -- an annoyance to russia. somebody they might notice.

after the uprising was put down he fled to the nation of georgia. made himself useful to the government and played a mediator reportedly after other chechen militants took hostages and killed a bunch of people in the mountains of georgia. this guy sent in as a trusted figure the chechens would talk to bring about an end of the standoff on behalf of the georgian government and helpeds them in counter intelligence efforts against russia. it perhaps will not surprise you to hear while he was living in georgia he faced repeated attempts on his life he and associates blamed on russia 2009 reportedly poisons. 2015 drives in the city and ashbushed shots fired into his car. injured in that attack but survived. in the wake of that attack he fled to germany.

because of his past repeated attempts on his past requested protection from the german government. 2017 director of a nonprofit grune supported his asylum application to germany and the nonprofit chief wrote a letter to german immigration authorities on the man's behalf expressing concern for his siftsift y safety. the "new york times" obtained that letter saying he is so massively pursued by the russian side hit life is in danger and needs special protection. "i urge you are to grant his sperm protection and not send him back to where putin the long arm can reach him." the idea being you should keep him here in germany, putin can't reach him. despite those requests the german government had not yet provided him any special protection. the "wall street journal" interviews a former official in the georgian government who kept in touch with the man until recently telling the journal at the time of his death the man

was still trying to obtain staid bodyguards through the court system but felt safe waiting word. felt even thee not able to get the protection he asked for he felt relatively safe in germany. the man continued, "apparently he was not." this week u.s. officials tell the "wall street journal" that u.s. intelligence now believes that the government of russia was behind this bicycle riding assassination in broad daylight in park in scentral berlin. behind the murder last month of a former chechen in germany. the united states believes russia is responsible for this assassination. "one official says the suspect had recently come out of a russian prison after serving a murder sentence upon his release given a bona fide russian

passporteneder the name vadem sofalov" u.s. officials believed to be a cover. that's one single source speaking to the "wall street journal" about the suspect here, about him allegedly just coming out of a russian prison, about him being a convicted murderer, having this bona fide russian passport issued under a fake name. one source to the journal but jives with other open-source reporting investigative reporting done in conjunction, in a collaborative effort by german and russian news organizations along with the investigative freelance outfit with an interesting track rod on the . >> reporter: -- and skripal and his daughter after almost killed in the uk. he played a key role tracing that crime back to russian military intelligence officers's well, what this open source investigative reporting effort between this german news outlet,

russian news let and bellingcap found in the berlin case the killer in german custody, the passport he was carrying is a real russian passport clearly issued in a fake name. the address listed for the passport holder is an address that physically doesn't exist in st. petersburg and no record of that name or trace of that person online or any other known databases on earth as unu.s. official explains to the "wall street journal" "a fake identity with a real passport can only be provided by authorities in russia." bellingcap and schspiegel and insider report in their investigation just like the attempted murder of sergei scruple in the u.s., apparently it's numbered in a pay that

appears to link it to russian mill tai intelligence. russian military intelligence provided with a number of passports that make it so that you can trace specific passports back to them in the event something crazy like this happens. this is a crazy thing. right? this killing was three weeks ago today. german police picked this guy up within minutes thanks to the witnesses who saw him allegedly both kill the guy and go into this crazy series of events and series of actions in which he tried to change his appearance and get away. german police still have him in custody. released in is picture. not a name for him. they don't believe they have a real name for him, released a picture of his bike he allegedly committed the murder while riding and scooter he was allegedly going to use as his getaway vehicle. russian counselor officials have been visiting him since in custody. that said the russian government denies this latest assassination

has anything to do with them, but, you know -- you would expect them that say that. a source from german security agencies quotaled, puts a fine enough point on it, "if it turns out a state player like russia is behind this killing in berlin we have a secretary skripal case on our hands with everything that entails." when russia carried out that asassation in britain, the skripal attack in salisbury in the uk, that was only last year. doesn't it feel like a million years ago? a year and a half ago. march of 2018. and in the investigations that have happened since then the suspiciously fit, stern-faced very well organized supposed tourists that arrived in salisbury just before the killing and left salisbury right after, they turned out to be apparently russian military intelligence officers, reportedly were carrying real russian passports that were

issued by russian government, just not in real names. sergei skripal an ex-kgb officer, he and his daughter barely survived the russian nerve agent and it killed a bystander severely sickening several other in the city including an officer. and following that attempted russian assassination in britain over 100 diplomats expressed from the country and including the u.s. and produced the moment when we learned president trump very upset and almost panicked when he learned that the u.s. was actually expelling more russian diplomats than other countries were in response to the skripal's attempted assassination. trump administration apparently had done the math wrong and thought they were only expelling a sort of average number of russian diplomats. thought they were only doing what all the other countries

were doing. when they learned they accidentally were kicking out a lot more russian diplomats than the other countries president trump your upset at that. oops. in addition toic kicking out diplomats in in connection wib the assassination in britain was a new round of tough sanctions against russia. the trump administration announced them and didn't do it. slow walked the sanctions for months. only after a round of critical reporting earlier in the summer made three although the trump administration announced sanctions as a response to the skripal assassination attempt they never put them in practice. not until almost a year after the trump administration was shamed into implementing those sanctions but begrudgingly. they put them in effect finally last month. august of 2019 after announcing them spring of last year.

russian parliament pass add law in 2006 that nomly at least makes it three for vladimir putin to order the murder of anything on everybody providing he believes them to be a threat to russia tore a terrorist. when duma passed that law we saw a urd inner of alexandr lifnenko, ex-russian spy killed by dropping radioactive material into his tea in a london hotel. with those assassinations, and others in britain, both attempted and completed and others in other parts of the world maybe putin and russia never feared what the american consequences or international consequences might be are tracking down people and murdering them, but offing this new guy in berlin in broad daylight, in germany's capital city literally just down the block from angela merkel's

office, making sure the killer had a russian passport on him immediately traced back to the russian security services when picked up, i mean, this not only seems like they're not afraid. seems like they're flaunting what they can do. what are you doing to do about it? i can do this in your house. you're not going to do anything about it. watch what else i'll do. incredible for us as earn ins as as that story about that berlin as assassination unfolded over the course of the world, a strange and scary story out of berlin another story unfolded right here about u.s. intelligence's own guy, own source inside the kremlin. now, the "washington post" in 2017, bob woodward's book "fear," intelligence source somewhere inside the russian government that had given u.s. law enforcement intelligence key information about the russian

government, they couldn't have obtained any other way. key information about the russian attack on the 2016 election including specific documentation showing that putin himself ordered the election attack, signed off on it and that it was specifically intended to try to install trump in the white house. that is not putin-specific information you'll get out of signals intelligence. that was human intelligence that u.s. agencies got from a human source inside the russian government. so the fact that that sort existed inside the russian government, inside the kremlin had been previously reported. but then apparently this week some sort of trip wire was tripped, and in very quick secession that blew up, right? first the cnn reporting not only did that source exist but he had been excel tra skell excel trad

president trump might departmid him to the russians. valuable intelligence from inside the crekremlin for decad. losing him, a priceless loss for u.s. intelligence capabilities. then news reporting where the guy was living in virginia and under what name his house purchased. by monday night an that flurry of reporting that man fled that house along with his family. by tuesday the russian government published what he said was his name and started denigrating him saying he wasn't important, definitely wouldn't have had access to important information. at the same time, though, perhaps belying that they were sort of interested in tracking him down, russian authorities it did take steps to alert interpol as of yesterday they now want interpol, international assistance, in tracking this guy down.

and did i mention that u.s. intelligence says russia was behind an assenation this week in berlin, in the capital city of germany right next to angela merkel's office? i mean, i don't know why there was this flurry of reporting over the past four days, that basically outed this unbelievably important u.s. intelligence source who until recently had been in pretty high echelons inside the russian government. i don't know why that all happened this week. we do know that the new attorney general william barr and the justice department's inecter general have been pursuing an investigation into the origins of the rush investigation and the sources of intelligence that u.s. symbintelligence agencies the fbi used among other things making fisa applications for the russia, and trying to track do down all the way this investigation started and the sources for the initial information that set the

investigation off. is it possible that's what pried loose the stuff and the put this priceless american source into the wind? we don't know. we don't know what the trip wire was that hit this week basically results in a flurry of reporting and him being out in. he's in the wintd. out of the address and if he's at risk for russia coming for him, if you're u.s. intelligence, if you're trying to protect him, how do you do that? how would you do that in normal times? how do you do it now? how much, for example, can you compartmentalize the information about where this guy is now? now that he's fled that house in virginia? i mean, specifically i'm wondering do you have to el it the white house where he is? tell the white house where he is? what if he ask? can you interrogate why they're asking? russia just killed a guy, for u.s. intelligence three weeks

ago in central berlin. is it impossible they would try to get this guy here, too? if it was impossible in the past, is it still impock now? i'm just the personal to ask. you are going to want to meet our next guest. stay with us. with us.

remember henry hill in "good fellas"? the mobster, famously and terrifyingly and hunted played by ray liotta? a really person in real life like in movies he turned on his mafia bosses and then ended up in witness protection. for his own safety. which makes sense given what he'd just done. right? henry hill's case, as it generally does, it worked rather than being murdered by the mob for turns states evidence he died of international causes in 2012. the witness protection is how you disappear after known to

have helped in the prosecution of a dangerous criminal or criminals run by the u.s. marshal service and a cousin in another program run by the cia. it's called the national resettlement operation center. a few years ago the great foia site unredacted.com published the first organization chart of the cia showing it up redacted under the service which reports up to the cia director. at any time the secretive protection program includes dozens maybe 100 former spies for our country that need protection here. they get american citizenship, asked where they want to live. it's not fail-proof. one reported instance told a dramatic story in the "new york times" last year, "in one instance a suspected hit man for russian intel arrived in florida and approached the home of one the most important informants a russian secretly resettled

there. the suspected hit man traveled to another city where one of the relatives lived raising more concerns the kremlin authorized revenge on american soil." i know this is spy movie stuff but real life? this is scary. dangerous, dark stuff. right? attempting to protect people who have at great personal risk decided to help the u.s. people who have put their lives on the line to gather intelligence from places like russia or anywhere else in the world to help the united states, in order to help the u.s. intelligence community. well, the news this week from berlin according to u.s. officials was the russian government that tracked down and assassinated a former chechen rebel not in chechnya or russian but germany. the capital september, steps ay way from the office of the german chancellor. that news along with the outing of a man who was reported to be a are toer russian spy now living in the u.s. under american protection after he

provided key information to u.s. intelligence for decades including the key central information that led to the russian investigation and in terms of russia interfering with our election. the confluence of those two stories both of which i've talked about over the last few days raised the prospect and worry that russia might go after this u.s. intelligence source just outed. maybe even here in the u.s. former cia official longtime veteran of the cia who has worked on resettling defectors, has been in charge of that, told the "washington post" this week, "putin is very revengeful. putin will go after these people." joining us for the interviews joseph augton, a 28-year veteran and former director of the cia defector operation center. mr. augton, super intem dated to meet you. >> thank you. >> let me ask you as i tell my layman's version of the spy

stories anything i've talked about the last secretary strikes me wrong -- >> you pretty much got it right. i would like to start saying on this specific case, i didn't know much about this case until the news broke and the rest of the world heard about it. that said, you know, the defecto operation center brings in and resettles those people who get in trouble overseas if you will and according to a little known law called public law 110, goes back to 1949, the united states government is allowed to bring up up to 100 people a year including family members. >> a ceiling on it? >> a ceiling. we rarely get to if ever but up to 100 people who provided key information to protect in defense of the united states and its security. okay?

so we -- in the defecto operation center we've had these people and have them for life, by the way. the mentioned the u.s. marshal witness protection program. it's a little different. in the witness protection program people who stray from the program or do things that are not, not directed to do, they get kicked out of the program. >> i was looking that up to do sammy the bull. right? he ended up out of the witness protection program right away and back into a life of crime and back in prison. you can't do that in witness protection? >> we take people in and take them in, i can tell you this and am allowed to take you in, we have several hundred open cases in the united states of defectors now call them defectors brought in because of, because they were in jeopardy or peril in the fact they might be exposed or in fact be killed. >> how good is the u.s. and the cia in this case at protecting

those people? what's the track record like? >> interesting. because under putin -- by the we, we bring in not only russians. right? we bring in others, chinese, iranians, north koreans and are responsible for their security for life. all right? and in terms of protecting them we have a moral responsibility, and i really mean this sincerely. people who work for us in place for that long and take those kind of risks that they take we want to assure that they are protected, that we take care of them and they live as good a life as they can for, you know, for the rest of their lives. >> that makes sense to me. the u.s. is making an implicit promise when they engage to spy for us, get information for us, you have to do a ding dangerousg but we're keel you alive as part of the deal. you have to legitimately and honestly promise that.

>> right. while i'm not in the agency, i and others are worried about russian defectorsbecause of putin. as i said you quoted putin is a very vengeful, revengeful individual. he'll come and put people on target lists and we worry about that. it's a red line that most people think in the united states that putin will not cross. i for one believe he straddles that line as we speak. which means that this particular individual who was outed, if you will, and exfiltrated in 2017, you know, i have no concern at this particular point in time that putin will come and get him. what i worry about is a year from now, two years from now, five years from now, he has a wife and three kids. he was -- he was resettled in this country, and that is not standard operating procedure. in the defector operation

center. could be and i have to emphasize we respect our defectors. we respect these people. and i could see that this person arguing to keep his true name. it's very difficult for defectors when they come to the eyed. explain it this way. it's an important point. most had important positions back home and never told their spouse or kids what they were doing. one day somebody from the cia because these people get in trouble -- this guy, particular guy for example as you said worked in place for ten years. that's a long time to be a reporting asset. the longer it goes, the more opportunities there are for him to screw up, for us to screw up, which we do, for us to screw up or him to come under suspicion. that's a long time. okay? so at this point, and -- at that point we decided after frankly

after media things and connecting him and suggesting he had an important position within putin's inner circle, time for him to leave. >> yeah. time to disappear. >> he comes to the united states. he had an important position there. he's now in the united states. we tell -- now his kids know. now his wife knows. he's here living a, a decent life but we also tell the kids and we tell the family we're going to teach you english. right? so i know you speak russian but we'll teach you english. then assimilate you into american society. and the job you had back in russia you won't have the same job in the united states. then we're going to say, very important point which gets defectors all the time and i don't blame the dwct defectors feeling this way. no more contact with anybody back home including your family. >> another element i want to ask about in terms of the security of this guy.

take a quick break and we'll be right back. joseph augton a 28 year veteran. we'll be right back after this. cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

for 28 years joseph augustin was a member of the clandestine service for three years ran the cia defector operation center. that is the part of the cia that takes foreign assets who helped u.s. intelligence and gets them secretly resettled here in the u.s. to protect them.

foreign assets akin to the russian spy who we just learned in is week was exfiltrated from russia in 2017 relocated to the u.s. and this week would mistier oisly had his cover blown by a ton of media attention and now as of monday night this week all but disappeared. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> asking about the track record in terms of keeping people safe. when you look what russia has done recently. the skripal case, berlin case, u.s. intelligence thinks was a russian operation just three weeks ago in the heart of berlin, do you feel russia is getting more willing to do this in places where they otherwise wouldn't be expected, or is this the way it's always been? >> i think in some ways, both true, because this is the way they've always been. poisoning of people from the soviet union and russia goes back decades.

the can kgb had a poison department, where they created different poisons to assassinate people who disagreed with the regime. now, with putin, however, we have a former kgb officer. right? he knows this stuff and hates traitors more than anything in the world, and, you know, what we say about putin is, you know, it's -- to be laughed at is worse for them than being feared. this happened in this case and why you see a lot of media attention to the fact this defector we think, say and know frankly was an incredibly important spy within the inner circle, putin now his propaga a propaganda, he was low-level and he didn't do anything. and -- you know what? that's spy talk. because he's not going to admit we just recruited within his own

organization and incredibly important asset. you know, i'm worried, again, that, you know, we have to be have to keep our -- our vigilance intact, because this man has become vulnerable. can we protect him? we can protect him, and as i said, you know, right now i don't fear any retribution right now bought or two years. what happens in a case like that is you get lazy. you get, security you think you don't need. that's when putin attacks. >> seen it with skripal and presumably with this chechen guy, years on with their beef. long memories. >> we have these families and don't want defectors in the united states. if we recruit someone overseas we would rather have them work in place. provide the information they can and when their access ends we

end our relationship and they live happily ever after in their own country. we don't want defectors but have a moral obligation to bring them in when they get in trouble. your viewers who watch the americans, very important. this is the americans in reof cour course -- reverse. people who weren't spying on us but for us and now living within our midst. >> joseph augustin, 28 year director of cia. thank you so much. appreciate you being here. more ahead. stay with us. more ahead stay with us. the utter delight of free wi-fi... . oh man this is the best part. isn't that you? yeah. and the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. i can read minds too. really? book at hilton.com. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. expect better. expect hilton.

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places. turns out doral the best and why it will be at doral. the president tried it out a couple week it's ago, well, an empirical statement about the behaber of the u.s. government. at least an empirical claim by the president. the kind that could be tested by reporters. voila. today reporter of the "washington post" issest estes that empirical assertion whether the u.s. actually vet a dozen sites for the g7 and decided doral was the best and said on twitter he's like your help if you have tips. hours after saying that, also already gotten some great tips on what the u.s. government did here since his first tweet. while that controversy continues to not just trail the president but sort of blossoms the president leans into this idea that he ought to make money off the presidency. he got very bad news on that from a u.s. federal appeals court today and the lawyer

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every heart-pounding running attack, and every big time defensive stop. sundays were made for football on xfinity. that's simple, easy, awesome. add the sports entertainment package for nfl redzone. click, call, or visit a store today to learn more. donald trump was sworn into office on a friday. by the next monday, by the first full working day in d.c. of the trump era, he was already being sued by ethics watchdogs. citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, also known as c.r.e.w., they filed suit in federal court in the southern district of new york alleging that by continuing to profit from his hotels and his restaurants in new york and d.c. while he was in office as

president, trump was violating the emoluments clause of the constitution. remember when americans didn't even have to know that the emoluments clause of the constitution explicitly says the president can't profit from business dealings with foreign countries? remember those innocent days? when that was a totally irrelevant part of the constitution because presidents wouldn't even try such a thing? anyhoo, that case that was filed against the president on the first full work day of the trump presidency, that was the first of several cases ultimately brought by a bunch of plaintiffs trying to keep the president from using the oval office to line his pockets and trying to keep foreign governments from using trump branded properties as a convenient way to bribe the leader of the free world. that first emoluments case has appeared to be dead in the courts since a district court judge refused to let it go forward in 2017. but, hey, look. today an appeals court brought it back to life, which means,

well, don't take it from me. our next guest tonight is deepak gupta, who is the lawyer representing the plaintiffs in this lawsuit against the president. mr. gupta, it's great to have you with us tonight. >> hi, rachel. thanks for having me. >> i understand the basic charge here that the president's not supposed to use his public position to get rich and the constitution says in particular he can't take money from other governments while he's getting paid to be president. >> exactly. >> is there more specificity in terms of the way your case works that we need to understand in terms of how it's going to move in the courts? >> sure. you mentioned there were several cases brought. there were three cases brought, one by members of congress, one by the district of columbia and maryland, and i also represent them, and the third case was one there was a decision in today, that's the case in which we represent hotel and restaurant industry competitors of president trump's businesses. we always thought this was a really straightforward theory here. these are people that are directly competing with trump's businesses in the market. every dollar that goes from

their businesses to trump's businesses that would have gone to them because of foreign delegation, for example, from united nations might have patronized their business, that's an injury to them because the president is violating the constitution. and that's exactly what the federal court of appeals in new york, which is the level right before the u.s. supreme court. this is the first appellate decision in these emoluments clause cases to allow the litigation to go forward. >> in terms of the president's sort of brazenness on this issue while these court cases have been meandering through the court system with more or less success, and as you say, yours is the first one to get a favorable appellate decision, seems like the president at a public level has become much more blatant and brazen about the idea that he ought to profit from his public office and that foreign governments ought to pay him if

they want to do business with the u.s. government, including, for example, for the privilege of coming to the g-7 conference. >> yeah. >> are those kinds of proposals from the president directly implicated by this case that you have brought? >> they are, yes. we've been hearing news lately about these air force stopovers in scotland. that is money that's going from the federal treasury, from the u.s. military budget, to the president's businesses. that is a direct violation of the domestic emoluments clause of the constitution which says that the president is only supposed to get a salary for doing his job. that's all we're going to pay him. the federal government doesn't pay him anything more, and that's a violation of the constitution. every time you have foreign delegations staying at his businesses where, for example, you mentioned the doral, the summit that he wants to have at doral if he's effectively forcing foreign governments to go to his resort and spend money there, that would be a direct violation of the foreign emoluments clause. and i think you're right, rachel, that we've seen him be a lot more brazen about

this. you remember before he was -- before he took office, he had a press conference where he hired a lawyer and they tried to say look, there's not going to be a violation of the clause. they were worried about this. they were concerned. as we've seen with a lot of things with president trump, as the norms get shattered, he becomes more and more brazen about these norms. and i think that's why it is so essential to enforce these norms. i know it's frustrating because the court system, the legal system, these things take time but it matters. it's matters to be able to say, look, we held him to account. these constitutional norms didn't just go by the wayside. they set precedent and we're not going to allow this thing to happen again. >> deepak gupta, attorney for the plaintiffs, thank you so much for your time tonight. congratulations on your success today. keep us apprised. >> thank you so much for having me. >> thank you. i should tell you that lawrence o'donnell is going to have more on this story tonight.

he's going to be talking to the head of c.r.e.w., which is the group bringing that lawsuit we were just talking about. we'll be right back. stay with us. h us nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ award winning interface. ♪ ♪ award winning design. ♪ ♪ award winning engine. ♪ ♪ the volvo xc90. our most awarded luxury suv. ♪ ♪

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♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ that's going to do it for us tonight. there's one story you should watch for developments in over the weekend. one of the things we've been talking about on this show is the potential that there might be a -- the opioids version of what was the multibillion dollar tobacco settlement back in the '90s. the company that makes oxycontin, purdue pharma, is trying to pursue that settlement. a bombshell story tonight in "the new york times" which says the subpoena has turned up more than a billion dollars to entities controlled by the sack ler family that owns purdue pharma. there are allegations now that that family may have essentially rated purdue pharma to take all the money all of that company, to leave no money for victims, less money for victims as they approach the settlement talks.

those are red-hot allegations advanced by this reporting in "the new york times," and i expect that will lead to more reporting and consequences over the weekend. so watch out for that. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. i have read here the justice department filing. there it is. justice department filing tonight, it's the breaking news of the night. them saying, the justice department, that house chairman of the judiciary committee jerry nadler has no right to see grand jury material related to the mueller investigation. and you know who has something to say about that? >> who? >> jerry nadler. >> you have nadler? >> you know where he is right now? he's over here. >> that was an excellent reveal. >> come by and say hi on your way out the door. >> i will. okay, bye. >> thank you, rachel. house judiciary committee jerry nadler is here to talk about the breaking news of the night with the trump justice department trying to block his