good morning, i'm phillip mena at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. here is what's happening. oil field drone attack. who is behind it and what it could mean for gas prices. joe biden trying to set the record straight on race. the expectations for a speech he

will give in just a few hours. i think there is a potential cost to the nation by putting on trial a former president. >> the former attorney general on potentially prosecuting the president after he is out of office. plus the sentencing backlash for felicity huffman and the comparisons being made to the punishment given to an ohio mom. we start with a new reaction today to that fiery attack in saudi arabia. the world's largest refinery and oil field in flames after a drone strike. as houthi rebels in yemen are claiming responsibility secretary of state mike pompeo is pointing the finger at iran. iran responding denying it was involved in the attack and dismissing the u.s. claim as pointless. joining me now is nbc's sarah harman in london and nbc's hans nichols at the white house. sara, we will start with you. what else is iran saying this morning? >> reporter: phillip, good morning. iran's foreign minister is hitting back directly at

secretary pompeo this morning tweeting, having failed at max pressure. secretary pompeo is turning to max deceit. he goes on to say that the u.s. is is it you can in yemen because the illusion that yep ens superiority will lead to military victory. according to the houthi are he believes who took responsibility for this, it was ten drones relatively inexpensive technology that sent these two saudi aramco facilities up in flames. these strikes have cut the kingdom's oil output roughly in half, a loss of 5 million barrels a day, that's significant, it's about 5% of the world's daily supply. so, phillip, one big question is what effect is this going to have on oil prices. according to the analysts i've spoken with the answer is going to depend on how quickly they return to output. the department of energy indicated last night it would be willing to tap into reserves if necessary. we got a little preview of the market reaction this morning, sunday of course is the first

day of trading in the week in saudi arabia and saudi stocks opened 2.3% lower on sunday, all eyes on the western markets monday morning. >> perhaps that is an indication what happens in just a few hours from now. nbc's sarah harman, thank you so much. let's go over to the white house where we find hans nichols. hans, good morning. the president has spoke with the saudis about this, what do we know about what was said in that conversation? >> reporter: the white house used that phone conversation to read out the president's condemnation of these attacks. he said he pledged support for -- to the saudis in some sort of defensive capacity. the stronger language really came from mike pompeo's twitter feed and he clearly accused iran of being behind the attack. he said the claim by the houthis that they were responsible for this, he said there is no evidence these attacks came from yemen. so that's the official position from the administration as sara is mentioning, the department of energy is signaling they are willing to help on any affect

this would have on gas prices by potentially tapping the strategic petroleum reeverybody's is. you had senators lindsey graham overnight talking about hitting oil facilities inside of iran. now, the context for all of this as you remember earlier in the summer the president came awfully close to military action against iran when they brought down a u.s. drone. that's according to officials at the time, according to the president. now, the president ultimately pulled that mission back. in a couple days the president is going to be heading up to the united nations general assembly in new york and he has clearly signaled that he wants to talk with his iranian counterparts as late as tuesday the line for the administration was, sure, the president will sit down with rouhani. we will see to what extent the president today talks about potential for meetings and whether or not the president uses rhetoric that's as strong as his secretary of state. phillip. >> much more to discuss later on the show about this topic. for now hans nichols, thank you so much.

now to the race for the white house. a big day on the campaign for a number of candidates, but especially for former vice president joe biden. starting this morning these 2020 candidates are taking their message to crucial states a day before president trump is expected to rally in new mexico. today biden is set to have a major outreach on race in alabama and in florida. first in just a few hours he is expected to deliver a keynote address to mark the 56th an verse of the bombing of the 16th street baptist church in birmingham. that attack took the lives of four young black girls drawing national attention to the violent struggle for civil rights. according to an aide biden is expected to say in part, quote, we can't understand the shocking attack without understanding our original sin of slavery and the centuries long campaign of violence, fear and trauma brought upon black people in this country since. in the afternoon biden will head to miami on the first day of hispanic heritage month, he's expected to tell latinos that

the american dream is big enough to welcome more immigrants. biden's every word on race even more meaningful after critics say he delivered a botched answer to a debate question about the legacy of slavery. and as biden continues to bank on the legacy of a popular democratic president, barack obama's attorney general, eric holder, defended biden, but did not endorse him. >> i don't think that there's any basis for people to believe that a president biden would be, you know, less committed to civil rights endorsement than president obama was. now, i'm not endorsing him. it's then for him, you know, to explain and torques as i've just said, say, well, i might have been wrong then, but this is where i am now and, you know, you judge me on the entirety of my career. joining me now emily known and daniel lit man reporter for "politico." good morning to you both. emily, let's start with you. let's stay on biden. what will you be looking for in

his speech later today especially after the criticism that followed that answer that he gave on thursday night about the legacy of slavery? >> as you pointed out his every word on race will be closely scrutinized especially because the immediate take away when he made that comment at thursday night's debate was that he was speaking about a record player and that was perhaps not great considering his advanced age, but the answer in its entirety was to a question on the legacy of slavery and he seemed to indicate -- suggest that children of color need to be educated and guided by their white educators, by white teachers, by people outside the family and the core. but now he maintains his lead in the polls but that's very much due in large part to his very strong support among black voters, particularly those of older generations. when he goes to alabama today an early voting state, a state that's a super tuesday state, his remarks about the bombing will resonate pretty strongly among those older black voters,

particularly because his remarks will be scripted and it's a nod to something that happened decades ago. his support isn't as strong with younger black voters but if he shores up his support with older voters who saw him as a very loyal number two to barack obama he should do well in those southern states. >> daniel, i wanted to ask you about that, as emily just mentioned biden has amassed a very strong lead among african-americans, especially with those 65 years of age and older. is his campaign worried about losing that block of constituents if he continues to have these similar gaffes? >> i think he's trying to get better at debating. this was the only stage where you've had the top tier candidates all against each other and, you know, so it was kind of the first real debate, but as, you know, you guys mentioned, real gaffe when he was talking about record players and how they can help african-american kids get better educated, but i think if you actually look at his plan, you

know, he is talking about integrating all parts of a community to help people succeed. so that has something -- that's something that has, you know, broad support. and i think it's trying to get away from reparations, which a lot of progressives support, but does not have broader public support. so you can't really have a candidate talking about reparations, supporting that, when most moderate voters and the majority of americans overall are against that. >> in the meantime president trump will be rallying on monday in new mexico. he is convinced that he can compete and possibly even turn that state red even though democrats won in 2016 and again in 2018. so em he will, what do you think? do you think that's realistic? why does the campaign believe that new mexico is actually in play for them? >> potentially because it's a border state and they think they might have strong support among those who want the president to be strong on borders, but he's going to be there tomorrow on

mexican independence day, he was in the state a couple years ago and it was the site of very large, very violent anti-trump protests. there's potential for him to face that kind -- same kind of resistance when he shows up there tomorrow. >> daniel, the "washington post" is summing it up like this, more united versus a house divided. gop goes all in on trump while democrats clash over ideology and tactic. it's highlighting thursday's split screen with the democratic debate and the gop retreat. what's your assessment on how each party is handling the unorthodox nature of a trump presidency. >> for the republicans they used to talk about entitlements and addressing the national debt and being strong to support free trade and that's all been pushed to the side as they try to support trump's agenda which is not a traditional conservative but more of a populist agenda. so that makes it much harder for republicans who used to stand for those core principles to

actually advocate for them because they don't want to be seen as, you know, get in trump's line of fire on twitter. so for democrats you have the medicare for all wing and the green new deal up against more moderate democrats who say that, you know, we need to get at those disaffected trump supporters who maybe live in the suburbs, may have voted for trump in 2016, but they could be ours for the taking. so we can't go too far to the left. so that's what biden is banking on in terms of a general election argument. >> all right. let's turn our attention to impeachment for just a moment. former attorney general eric holder he also weighed in on that topic. let's listen to what he had to say. >> do you believe there are grounds for impeachment for congress to proceed with impeachment? >> i don't think it's any doubt about that. if you look at just the mueller report there are grounds there for impeachment.

there were ten specifications of possible obstruction of justice, i think that at least four of those are pretty solid. and then in addition, you know, the emoluments clause, i don't think there is any question for a basis for an impeachment inquiry, impeachment investigation. >> do you think it's easy for him to say or do you think this is what democrats should be saying? >> it depends on which democrat you talk to when you ask that question, of course, but he went on in that interview, the attorney general, to say that the house democrats should continue with their impeachment proceedings, but it is a process, especially after the president is out of office, that might divide the country. he pointed to the historical context of gerald ford pardoning richard nixon, a mo ve that may have cost him the election, but it's very much a topic that divides not only the democratic party on the hill right now but especially the country

especially because there is not strong public support for impeachment right now of donald trump. >> daniel, i will let you have the last word on this topic. nchts i thi >> i think eric holder is trying to straddle that divide where you want to make sure progressives don't feel like they're being ignored, but also nancy pelosi is realistic that you don't have the votes in the senate and so does this really help democrats in 2020 or could you just help ensure a second trump term, with is no democrats won. so that-- want. >> the beat will go on. there's a discussion that frankly they're running out of time. thank you so much for joining us early on this sunday morning. 14 days, why the sentence for felicity huffman in the college bribery scandal is raising questions about whether there is really equal justice for all. t whether there is really equal justice for all. let's be honest, insurance can feel a little outdated.

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developing this hour, actress felicity huffman's sentence is now drawing intense reaction. the actress is preparing to report to federal prison to serve 14 days for her role in the college admissions cheating scandal. for some this case has always been about privilege, but many critics now think the punishment is as well. nbc's blayne alexander has more. >> reporter: felicity huffman left court friday facing cameras and a 14-day prison sentence after admitting she paid $15,000 to inflate her daughter's s.a.t.

score as part of a massive college cheating scandal. in the courtroom an emotional huffman told the judge i was frightened. i was stupid. and i was so wrong. speaking about the oscar nominated actress, the prosecutor said there is no paparazzi in prison. prison is the great equalizer. but for many the case is reigniting the debate over whether there really is equal justice for all. prosecutors pointed to the ohio case of kelly williams bolar a single african-american mother who registered her children for a suburban school district using her father's address rather than the dangerous neighborhood where she lived. in 2009 she was arrested, initially sentenced to five years in prison. later reduced to ten days and three years' probation. >> what happened to her is all too common for black, brown and poor people in our criminal legal system. >> reporter: singer john legend

noting the discrepancy tweeted the answer isn't for x to get more, it's for both of them to get less. we should level down, not up. in addition to two weeks in prison huffman received a $30,000 fine, one year supervised release and 250 hours of community service. her sentencing comes as nearly three dozen parents await their fate including actress lori loughlin who pleaded not guilty to more serious charges. >> felicity huffman's sentencing a wake-up call for lori loughlin, evaporating any hopes she might have had that she wouldn't be sentenced to time in federal prison. noing me now is attorney and msnbc legal contributor katie fang and ashley merchant. >> good morning. >> some people say because huffman pleaded guilty, took responsibility and was remorseful her sentence was appropriate. do you agree with that? >> i think jail is jail and i think that the point that john

legend makes, phillip, is really kind of the crucial part of the discussion that needs to be made. amin, 14 days was a message that was sent by the federal judge in this case that the great leveler, the great equalizer is going to be in jail, but if you canner that recent studies have revealed that $23 billion more has been provided in state and local funding for white school districts over predominantly nonwhite school districts then maybe the question isn't whether it's jail that's the great equalizer but maybe money should be the great leveler and how much money is being provided for the public school system in all sorts of districts. when you consider that felicity huffman took responsibility immediately she was the beneficiary of the downward exposure versus someone like lori loughlin who bribed $500,000 versus the $15,000 felicity huffman, so lori loughlin is looking at considerably more prison time if felicity huffman only got 14 days.

>> ashley, prosecutors they were asking for a month, huffman asked for no time, the judge went right down the fiddle with two weeks, does that indicate that it was fair? >> that doesn't necessarily indicate it was fair. i think it was an excessive sentence considering what other folks have gotten, what, for example, one of the coaches who did more than felicity huffman actually got, in that case the sentencing guidelines were recommending a higher sentence and he got no jail i'm too. so the fact that felicity huffman got some jail time, got the 14 days, that's actually outside of what you would have expected if there wasn't publicity surrounding this. i think that the question is not necessarily whether or not her sentence was excessive or fair but are all these other sentences fair? and i agree with john legend i think we need to level the playing field down, i think we need to consider prison as something that we have to impose only in extreme circumstances, only in circumstances of violent crimes, only in circumstances of people who are not completing their sentences maybe on a probation revocation, you know, felicity huffman got a probated

sentence so she's got some things she's got to do. if she does all of those with flying colors then reward her, if she doesn't do them then send her to jail at that point. we need to use prison as the appropriate punishment not for first time or nonviolent offenders but for people repeatedly doing acts. >> katie, help us understand this because a lot of people are claiming that the punishment was as a result of white privilege, some point to the cases like the one we saw in blane's piece of kelly williams bolar initially sentenced to five years for using her dad's address to register her children for a suburban school district. then there was the case of tanya mcdowell an african-american homeless mom sentenced to five years am prison for using a false address to enroll her son in a better elementary school. katie, is there an argument to be made here that privilege was a factor in huffman's case? >> here is the thing, there needs to be a critical analysis of the facts in each of those cases. for example, in the tanya mcdowell case that connecticut

woman who was homeless, she got sentenced to five years but it was also concurrent to the fact that she sold drugs to an under cover cop on two occasions so her sentence was 12 years suspended sentence down to five and she pled guilty to be able to do that. as for kelly williams, gentlemen, that was a massive sentence, she was actually ordered to pay restitution and when she didn't she was sentenced to 15 days in jail. the facts are important so let's be clear so people don't rush to judgment about it. that being said let's not ignore the obvious. the reality was that it wasn't that felicity huffman was sentenced to multiple years in prison suspended sentence for her to do the 15 or 14 days just like those other women had that exposure that were not white. the system is historically and systemically privileged against people who are non-white. i think like ashley said, like you've noted through these examples you are bringing up it is crucial for people to take the time to do the analysis as to whether or not to level that playing field like ashley mentioned like john legend has

mentioned. the way to do that is to be able to go back and see whether or not our sentencing guidelines are excessive and whether or not reform is important to be achieved through any administration including this one. >> we appreciate the facts and the context. ashley, what do you make of the disparity in the punishment here? >> i think we need to look critically at criminal justice reform. one of the big differences are state governments doing these sentences versus the federal government. you have states across the board, some of them you can get a life sentence some you get a few days in jail for the same exact crime. i think each of these states need to look at criminal justice reform, look at the laws that they are enacting. when we go and vote for legislatures, they are actually the ones that impose the laws. they are the ones that actually set what is a felony and what's not a felony. what's got a mandatory minimum what doesn't have a mandatory minimum. i think people need to look closely at what their state elected government is putting as a punishment for a crime and what their local judges and what

their local prosecutors are asking for punishments and what the judges are imposing and then take that to the ballot box, vote criminal justice reform, vote for prosecutors that are in favor of criminal justice reform, that are asking for probated sentences on cases like this in lieu of jail time. >> ashley and katie, thank you both for manage us out this morning. we told you about the attacks on those two crucial saudi oil facilities. up next how will the strike impact the global crude market and how much are you going to feel it at the gas pump? w much feel it at the gas pump?

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some frightening moments in wildwood, new jersey, when multiple levels of decking attached to a building collapsed trapping several people in the rubble. investigators still don't know this morning what caused the decks to give way at an annual fireman's event. more than 20 people were injured including children. also new today, iran is pushing back after the u.s. claimed that tehran was behind yesterday's attack on a saudi arabian oil facility. saudi officials say that these explosions came after drone strikes him the alaramco production complex. a groout of houthi rebels have claimed responsibility. joining me senior director for the security council in the trump administration and visiting professor at the ford school of public policy. what is the likelihood this will lead to an ex clags in tensions between the u.s. and iran?

>> good morning, phillip. thank you for having me. so that is an excellent question and i'd like to first sort of step back and look at the broader context for what apparently happened yesterday. so one of the questions in my mind is sort of what exactly happened? the houthi rebels have made the claim that there were -- the attacks were caused by drones, the saudis -- ministry of interior has also suggested that there were drones but if you actually look at the scale of what happened, the sophistication of these attacks, the geographic distance between yemen and the two facilities in saudi arabia, i think it's an open question whether drones were actually used and if drones actually weren't used, then going to secretary pompeo's point from the u.s. position from his statement yesterday that the united states is

blieming iran this raises question if it was the iranians and not the houthis what was the actual method of the attacks and how does this fit into a broader strategy of iran versus the united states because as viewers know the u.s. and iran have been locked in this crisis now for the last several months. that to me seems like an important thing for folks to hone in on right now. >> saudi officials say they are working to determine who was responsible for this. help us understand what was involved in that process. >> there is going to be a lot of investigation in terms of intelligence, in terms of what information -- whether on the sensitive side or even on the open source side was sort of known in advance, why did the saudis not sort of detect the attack in advance as whatever sort of weapons were used, whether it was drones or cruise missiles or anything else, why were the signatures of those weapons not detected by radar, some other sort of technical means. i think that's a really

important question. and then there's sort of the forensics of looking at the actual attack sites themselves. how many facilities were hit, what kind of explosives were used, are there any sort of remnants of the weapon systems that were employed, again, whether drones or something else and then sort of piecing all that together, that's going to take some time both on the saudi side and if they're asking for in i assistance from the united states or other foreign partners. >> how duj that the war in yemen complicates matters and the u.s. attempts to rein in iran? >> that's another really important request he to ask and looking at sort of the houthi claim, the houthis said that these weapons were drones, they didn't necessarily say that they were launched from yemen, but on the one hand if that claim is true then maybe this is something that was part more of the houthi fight against saudi arabia in yemen, but, again, if

there is more of an iranian role in this to include even directly, then i think you lifted out of that saudi arabia houthi frame or perspective and look at it from the broader u.s./iranian/saudi conflict that's been going on for a long time. >> let's talk about ben rhodes the former national security adviser to president obama. he reacted to pompeo's blaming of iran tweeting her this is an incredibly dumb, dishonest and dangerous thing to say. do you agree with him? >> certainly ben rhodes is entitled to his opinion but i would like to think that if secretary pompeo was going to make that claim that there would be some factual basis for him to support that. so whether that's coming from the intelligence community or other streams of information that the united states has access to, i am not sure that secretary pompeo would have made that claim so cavalierly and,

again, if there is an iranian role in this then that goes to capability in terms of the types of weapons systems that were used, the sophistication of the attacks, the precision and even sort of going to the timing, sort of what drove the timing of this operation for it to occur just now almost two days ago. >> how likely are we to see military conflict between the u.s. and iran because of this? >> well, hopefully that doesn't happen, but i do think that there is now an escalation in terms of the rhetoric. so secretary pompeo, again, has been very sort of strong and forceful with his claim that there is an iranian role, the iranians have pushed back rhetorically very hard. i believe either overnight or early this morning senior iranian republican -- or revolutionary guard corps senior official said that now all u.s. sort of personnel and facilities are in range of iranian missiles

in the region. so, again, this is sort of an escalation of rhetoric, hopefully it doesn't lead to an actual escalation in sort of conflict. >> all right. javad ali thank you so much. that's the diplomatic and military fallout to this. now to the financial portion of this. state media is reporting that the drone strike forced the shutdown of about half of the kingdom's crude oil output. that's 5 million barrels, roughly 5% of the world's daily production. so what consequences is it going to have on your wallet? joining me now to discuss, sabil marcellus. so cnbc is reporting that the price of oil per barrel could jump double digits. fearing the worst i expect that the market will open up 5 to 10 dollars per barrel on sunday evening that is 12 to 25 cents per gallon for gasoline. how concerned should americans be about those gas prices? >> this is absolutely a big

deal. he is absolutely right because we've had two saudi major oil installations that have been hit by these drones forcing saudi arabia to put its oil production in half. we are talking about world global oil supplies possibly being disrupted. it's too early to figure out exactly the extent of the damage but analysts are definitely looking at this closely in terms of the impact on oil prices and as you said it could probably jump up to $5, even $10 per barrel. because there are so many different aspects to this, there's the political aspects of it, the international ramifications and also when we talk about the tensions between iran and the u.s. that we've been seeing. >> wide ranging implications. sibile marcellus, thank you for joining me. david, what do you have in store for us this morning. >> there are three republicans challenging president trump and two of them will join us this morning, former congressman joe

wal walsh, former governor bill weld. they have written an op-ed for the "washington post" calling out the gop and four states for canceling republican presidential primaries. after joe biden's answer on race during the last democratic debate and as he gets ready to make what his campaign says is a major speech on race this morning the former vice president is facing calls to step aside. jameel writes democrats need an anti-racist no, ma'am knee against a raysist like donald trump. he argues that the former vice president is not up to the task. we will dig into that argument ahead of that speech in birmingham this morning. it is the state that could make the biggest difference for 2020 democrats. up next, the key voters for a blue victory. next, the key vot blue victory

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my home state of texas has been a republican stronghold for decades. in fact, the gop has won texas in every presidential election since 1980. but as msnbc's chris jansing now reports the latino vote is key for democrats to capture the state's 38 electoral votes. >> reporter: in houston, texas, trump supporters were so excited that the president in north carolina on monday might have heard them cheering his speech 1,200 miles away. >> we are going to keep on winning, winning, winning. >> reporter: but the historic

republican advantage in texas is coming up against a younger latino voting block that favors democrats. so both parties are pouring record money into the 2020 race. >> we're going to see in texas in 2020 the largest coordinated campaign the texas democratic party has ever done. >> reporter: unprecedented? >> absolutely. we will break records. every time the latino vote increases in share it's going to make it more competitive for a democrat. >> reporter: today 5.6 million latinos are eligible to vote in texas but only half are even registered. a sleeping political giant so big it could turn texas blue if it's awakened. >> my family doesn't really talk much about politics, the last election my parents didn't really support either. >> reporter: that's pretty typical. while overall texas voter turnout exploded in 2018 spurred by that oh so close cruz o'rourke contest the latino turnout lagged behind other groups. for democrats a heartbreakingly close race and a lesson for next year.

>> as texas gets younger, as we get browner those are the people that you have to engage. >> today is a great day to get registered to vote at your current address. >> reporter: democrats are intensively registering college students. >> we are such a big high north so our voices definitely need to be heard. >> reporter: new voters activated by immigration controversies including family separation and two mass shootings in the state. >> video and pictures get more engagement than plain text. >> reporter: republicans looking to counter the demographic shift are training trump supporters on how to register and energize the more conservative the latinos they need. >> they're 20% more likely to support the president in their reelection than where they were in 2016. >> reporter: that's your internal polling. >> that's our data program we have invested over $300 million in. >> reporter: the republican base is definitely smaller but are more reliable voters. >> i'm so excited. we're doing latinos for trump.

>> reporter: the stakes are no joke, though, a furious political battle unlike anything texas has ever seen. >> chris jansing says democrats no he that energizing an anti-trump vote in texas won't be enough with republicans digging in to win texas the gop has already spent more money on facebook ads in texas than anywhere else. former attorney general eric holder on prosecuting the president after he leaves office. and on "up," william weld and joe walsh on why they're challenging president trump in 2020. they're challenging president trump in 2020 people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. oh! under 7? (announcer) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (announcer) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death.

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are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. searing new remarks from president obama's former attorney general. eric holder laying out why he thinks president trump could face prosecution after leaving office in a wide-ranging new interview. >> i don't think there's any question about that. we already have an indictment in the southern district of new york where michael -- >> relative to the payout. >> relative to the payoffs. michael cohen is already in jail with regard to his role there. individual one is the president and it would seem to me that the next attorney general, the next president is going to have to make a determination. >> all right. let's bring in bishop garrison co-founder of the joseph rainy

center fore public policy and republican strategist brian darling founder and president of liberty government affairs. good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> brian, as a republican how alarming is that statement coming from a former u.s. attorney general? >> i don't >> i don't find it alarming at all. it is kind of expected. i don't think that president trump will get prosecuted after the fact considering when you look there is a good faith debate on whether president trump has any exposure on the campaign finance issue. he used personal money to take care of a personal matter. so there is legal debate as to whether he even -- whether michael cohen should have pleaded guilty and whether president trump has any exposure at all. >> and talking about the potential impact on the country of prosecuting a former president. let's listen to that. >> -- cost to the nation by putting on trial a former president. that ought to at least be part of the calculus that goes into

the determination that has to be made by the next attorney general. i think we should understand what a trial of a former president would do to the nation. >> bishop, how do you interpret that? >> well, i think what a.g. holder is saying is there is a process that needs to be put forward. as a part of that process, we need to be very thoughtful in the way we're going to go through it. he's correct. putting a former president on trial openly for something like this is going to have an effect on the country. it's going to have an effect on the world, to be quite frank. as a world leader, we have a lot of relationships, a lot of alliances that rely on our stability both domestically and internationally. so to go through this is not a small task. that's what i think a.g. holder is actually referring to here. it is a big decision to be made. but there is a process for congress, legislative process, a process in terms of the law that they must follow in order to

determine whether or not they should move forward. and they must follow that process. >> would you be okay with that, bishop? >> with what part of it? following the process and the actual lie, absolutely. would i be okay with a former president -- if this is the right thing to do, that is what needs to happen in order to see that justice is served, absolutely. i believe that there are a lot of open questions here in the conduct of the president's campaign and the conduct of the president's personal organization. it is a private organization in the context of the president's administration. there are many, many questions that have some legal questions that need to be answered here. and we need to follow this process through. >> we also need to avoid the criminalization of politics. and the situation where one party comes into power, they lock up their pundits. republicans touched on this a

little bit with the lock her up chant with hillary clinton. i don't think they should lock up their opponents and go after -- >> that's not what i'm saying. the republicans also spent years and millions of dollars on benghazi that led absolutely nowhere. i think we need to have a thoughtful discussion about what an impeachment process looks like. if there's smoke, there's fire. apparently there is some evidence and unanswered questions here that need to be engaged. >> brian, what do you think when you hear holder say he thinks the potential cost of putting a president on trial should be part of the next attorney general's calculus? >> i think basically when you look at the four corners of what he said, preaching counseling, democrats, maybe take a step back, not go over impeachment, not gopher on issues like immigration and health care. i think what he was saying is

the obama agenda could stand the way democrats are talking. they are attacking the obama record. that is not for me to tell democrats what to do. i think he is saying they need to dial it back a bit and not be so far left. >>. >> holder almost slammed the 2020 democrats who were backing decriminalizing illegal border crossings, as well as elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg. let's watch that. >> i don't think that's right. the law that is on the books have been there for about 100 years now. it might send the wrong signal. it will certainly take a tool away from the justice department they might want to use in an individual case and for some reason. some trafficking, human trafficking component there. there might be some other reason why you want to prosecute somebody. but it is up to i think the justice department to use its

discretion in an appropriate way. and i don't think this administration's justice department is doing that >> do you think his opinion is significant? >> you have an a.g. that wants the law upheld and wants nefarious actors to be captured. he is talking about human trafficking. he's referring i'm sure at some point to tphar co wars, terrorism, that we see in other countries that a lot of those governments are fighting their best to deal with. skpe and he wants to make sure they have all tools at their disposal to properly do their jobs. i think if you spoke protectly with a.g. holder he would agree he doesn't want the people fleeing desperate situations like refugees, asylum seekers, these migrants dealing with the effects of climate change in their areas to be treated as criminals. he wants those individuals to have an opportunity to find a safe haven within the borders of the united states, while at the

same time addressing what true criminal activity looks like, what the nefarious actors are doing elsewhere. i'm sure brian is going to say that somehow does going to say the obama administration has done something inappropriately in terms of their actions in the past in order to deal with this. i'm not surprised we would have the republican side believing that the a.g. is taking a hit at democratic what democratic candidates are doing. ultimately he is saying he wants the law followed. >> brian will have to answer for the next time around. thank you so much for spending in time today. . >> thank you. >> ahead on msnbc, two republicans fighting to replace president trump at the top of their party's ticket. joe walsh and bill weld up with david tkpwur ra at the top of the hour. david tkpwur ra at the top of the hour raise your steins to the king of speed.

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all right. that is all the time i have. i'm phillip mena. time to turn it over to "up" with david gura. david, good morning. ♪ >> welcome to "up". i'm david gura. biden to carry a major speech on race. he faces calls to step aside after comments during the last debate that could be described as damaging to his campaign. two of them will join us this morning.