♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm ayman mohyeldin. vice president joe biden lays out his vision for civil rights after debate performance raised big questions. and michael bennet joins me to talk about his campaign as some candidates try to pull the party forth to the left. later from sea to warming sea, we travel to the pacific northwest where sea temperatures are rising, fish are moving

farther north, and the hunt for america's seafood gets more and more dangerous. also, it seemed like we got mixed messages from house leadership this week about where exactly the impeachment process stands in. just a few minutes i am going to talk to congresswoman sheila jackson lee as the number of democrats calling for impeachment continues to grow. last week political reporter natasha bertrand joined this show live. since then she has added layer upon layer of detail about american servicemen and women staying at a resort belonging to president trump. she is back with us tonight. also i'm going to get some insight from former secretary of the air force deborah lee james to find out whether this is actually normal or not. and we're also going to have the very latest on those attacks in saudi arabia. moments ago president trump tweeting out there is reason to believe that we know the culprit are locked and loaded depending on verification. a lot more on that in just a bit. but first one of the most political and personal chapters

in modern american history seemed to end this way. >> on behalf of our nation, i want to apologize to brett and the entire kavanaugh family for the terrible pain and suffering you have been forced to endure. those who step forward to serve our country deserve a fair and dignified evaluation. not a campaign of political and personal destruction based on lies and deception. what happened to the kavanaugh family violates every notion of fairness, decency, and due process. and with that i must state that you, sir, under historic scrutiny were proven innocent. >> all right. then last night a book excerpt in "the new york times" revisited allegations from deborah ramirez without with some new claims along with new

details involving brett kavanaugh on the campus back in the 1980s. ramirez's legal team gave a list of at least 25 individuals. that the bureau did not interview more than 20 individuals who know kavanaugh or ramirez. though many of them tried unsuccessfully to reach out to those investigators. neither justice kavanaugh nor a witness cited in the article are commenting to nbc news about that story. and kavanaugh publicly denied ramirez' allegations during his confirmation process. but already some democratic presidential candidates are calling for impeachment inquiries into the justice while other candidates and party members are a little more circumspect. >> the most important thing to do first is to get the documents that you can actually look at them to make a decision about impeachment. you can't make that decision just on news reports. you have to actually get those

documents. >> do you think your -- are being premature? >> no. i just believe you've got to get the documents out there so the house can make a decision. >> what should democrats do now given this new information? >> i'm not sure honestly. that was such a mess. what it did for those of us who were running, it crystallized how bad washington is. >> yes, it did. >> so if you were of washington at that moment, frankly, the party didn't matter as much as the fact that you were part of that mess. and the mess really occurred because the information that needed to be investigated came out so late. and then it looked like a knee cap even though there were reasons it was late i'm not sure good ones. but if the information had come out early, i think you could have seen a full-throated fbi investigation. but this isn't going away if the fbi never even bothered to talk to people surrounding this woman's allegation. >> and the president has tweeted urging his department of justice

to intercede. joining me now is democratic presidential candidate and colorado senator michael bennet. senator bennet, i know you just got off the plane from iowa so we appreciate you coming in here. let's start with brett kavanaugh for a moment. >> and congratulations on the new show. just kidding, kasie. [ laughter ] >> she knows this is still her show. senator, let me get your thoughts really quickly about the kavanaugh investigation because i know and i understand that your office actually played an important part in connecting i believe deborah ramirez with investigators. tell us a little bit more about what you've learned about this. >> she's my constituent. she lives in colorado. i think what we are discovering now is that the fbi should've conducted the investigation that was warranted at the time. and as you have reported there were more than 20 witnesses that were never interinterviewed by the fbi. the schedule was so short that the committee had agreed upon.

but that's what should've been done to begin with. and i hope that's what will be done now. >> do you agree with some of your colleagues presidential candidates who have come out and said that brett kavanaugh should be subject to impeachment inquiries? >> well, i don't believe he should have been on the court to begin with. i voted against him. but i do think we need to have due process here. we can't give up on that. and we know that there are a number of people that were not interviewed. and i think they should be interviewed. and i think that the senate and the house should see the results of that investigation. >> we played that sound byte of claire mccaskill and talking about the hyperpolitization of capitol hill. >> she's right. if we're honest about it, by the time we got to this discussion when kavanaugh was going on the court, the worst place in america to have it was the senate judiciary committee. we had so degraded our

reputation. i'm not on the committee, in front of the american people that nobody was going to believe any conclusion that was reached on either side. and i think that is a really problematic place for us to be. >> so how do you think senators like susan collins and cory gardner, how do you think they feel with new information with this new information? >> i doubt very much that it will change their minds. but what everybody should do is call for the fbi investigation that should've happened before. i think that's what deborah ramirez was owed. i think that's what the senate should've insisted upon. and let's see whether we can get that done this week. >> again the president tonight earlier today said that the department of justice should intervene on justice kavanaugh's behalf, not for a thorough investigation. >> i think the justice department has other things to do. >> let me get your thoughts, sir, about the debate stage that took place a couple days ago. you were not on that stage not qualifying for it. how do you see where you stand currently in the race given

everything that has transpired over the past week? >> i was obviously disappointed not to be on the debate stage. but i think the dnc's criteria where arbitrary and didn't make any sense. and i've been spending my time in iowa and new hampshire. i don't have unlimited resources like some people in the race. so i had to make a decision whether i was going to spend money communicating with voters in these early states. this week i'm going up in iowa to do that. or spend money wandering money through facebook to raise $1 contributions, $70 at a time. i don't think that is the way our democracy is supposed to work. i will say this, having spent time in iowa this weekend, people's minds are wide open. there is no consolidation in this field. i think that there is some skepticism whether the frontrunners are going to be the people that win in iowa and new hampshire going forward. >> so what did folks tell you about how the debate played out? did anyone draw any inspiration?

>> i don't think anybody drew inspiration. i think the field is where it was before the debate happened. i think there is a general view that the format is not a great format. and might actually even play into donald trump's hands. i think what we need to do instead is present to the american people a vision that will unify democrats and bring some other people with us. we lost 9 million people's votes who voted twice for barack obama and once for donald trump. we have to get some of those people back if we're going to beat donald trump. i think a vision that unifies us on health care that, unifies us on climate and the economy and education is hard for people to get out on the debate stage like that. >> let me switch gears for a moment. the president also tweeting about saudi arabia this evening suggesting we are locked and loaded, not sure exactly what that means given what we've seen play out. what do you make of the news we are hearing overseas, and that's the tweet from the president just a few minutes ago. he's also released some of the strategic petroleum reserves that we have in the country to adjust for the market. but what do you make of the

development overseas in saudi arabia? >> i don't think it's at all surprising. i think the white house has no plan on whether this attack came from yemen or iran, we don't know. and i can't speculate tonight. but it's not surprising at all that it happened. and this is a consequence of a white house acting to get out of the iran nuclear deal that had forestalled the development of nuclear weapons there and to be kind of blustering on twitter instead of actually using diplomacy to advance the national security interests of the united states and israel and our allies in the region. and i would expect this to continue, not to stop. the truth is iran has been doing this basically since we invaded iraq the last time and created a vacuum. now they are filling that vacuum in yemen and southern iraq and in syria and in lebanon. that's deeply worrying to me. and by the way it'd be nice not to have a president who tweeted out about foreign policy stuff

but actually did the hard work of grinding it out. the folks over there are paying deep attention to what's going on here. and we learned today prices are up because of this, the oil prices are up 18%. i met a guy in iowa today at the airport who said to me that his business is being destroyed by the tariffs that the president has put on china. so it's one more tax on the american people. and tax. >> let me get your thoughts. we're a few hours away from a possible strike, one of the largest in recent decades in this country. united autoworkers possibly going on strike as of midnight for not reaching a deal with general motors. where do you stand on this issue because you've got general motors closing four factories. the cost of health insurance are going up. pay raises are not going up. where do you stand on this? >> i hope the parties come to a satisfactory conclusion here. i really hope they do. and i don't want to intercede with that. but i will say that is

absolutely true that for 40 years, 90 out of 100 americans haven't seen the benefit when the economy has grown. and what i'm hearing in iowa and new hampshire is that people aren't going to put up with it anymore. they're not going to put up with an economy where all the economic growth goes to the wealthiest people in the country. nor should they. our democracy can't be sustained that way. our economy can't be sustained that way. and i think one of the reasons trump ended up getting into office was people were so frustrated the democratic and republican presence together couldn't seem to address this problem. we now know how destructive trump has been. oil prices going up, the tariffs going up. and i think more measured leadership can actually help dig us out of this hole and move us forward. and that's what we're going to need. >> i appreciate you very much for taking the time for joining us. take care. joining me now politico reporter for the washington post

and maria teresa kumar. maria, let me begin with you first of all. do you think that the house will or should impeach justice kavanaugh? >> i think that there's a lot of conversations on how to do it. and they'd have to go through the exact same process of discovery as they are trying to do right now with trump and the mueller report. and one thing that i would side with amy klobuchar is read what they have, find out what they have. is there actually more things than just the newspaper headline because this is a very delicate dance they would have to do. imagine going into 2020 and his supreme court is not small and they really have to recognize how delicate it is. so i encourage them to read first of all the analysis, identify what the paperwork is, identify is there something that actually that the fbi failed to do. and then they can go from there. >> phillip, we heard senator michael bennet talk about the need for a thorough

investigation. give us a quick pulse on where the candidates in general stand and other key members stand on possibly relitigating or reinvestigating justice kavanaugh's background? >> well, i think there isn't a whole lot of appetite to sort of delve back into this. i think it's important to remember that when this happened shortly before the 2018 midterms. this was one of the most polarizing issues of the presidency which is saying a lot given how many polarizing issues there have been. ths not necessarily a wound that many people were terribly enthusiastic about having reopened. but it is the ka isthat when the fbi launched its ancillary investigation, it was very truncated. and we, "the washington post" and nbc news and other outlets reported how few people who associated with this story had been spoken to. the extent to whether that drives a shift politically. i think it's hard to get a sense

of the pulse of congress on that. we need to figure out exactly what we don't know. >> liz pivot a little bit and talk about the 2020 races. we just heard there from the senator. he did not make the debate stage on thursday night. he seems to think that a lot of the folks he's been talking to don't necessarily have a lot of excitement about some of the candidates or at least have built the consensus around a single candidate. how did the state of the race change, if at all, over this past week? >> i think it stayed a bit neutral. you were able to hear from different candidates as senator klobuchar talking about how she was very much a midwesterner and then you had folks such as beto o'rourke talking again about gun violence and the need to make massive change. he was really talking to suburban white women who voted for the democrats, came back during the midterm and trying to grow that electoral base between young people and people of color. that's what he was really trying to do. and then you had julian castro

who was doing the exact thing that when you're an underdog you demonstrate that you can go toe to toe with the person that's leading the pack. in this case it's joe biden. and so it was, you know, i think people got a little bit of a taste of folks that folks had not heard of from before. but pretty much neutral. that's sort of what you want. what i thought was the most interesting though was that elizabeth warren when, she left that debate stage she very much looked presidential. she looked very much that she was the one that was owning the stage and she didn't make any -- she taught from the debate stage but she didn't make any errors. and the fact that they're not talking about -- >> let me get your thoughts about enthusiasm for this election and what does that tell us about possible voter turnout. whereby 15 months out i believe. you've got 70% of voters very enthusiastic about voting when

you look at the democrats it's in the low 70s. when you look at the republicans it's also pretty high up there as well. what does that tell us about what this race is going to come down to and who is positioned to capture that excitement? >> it's hard to say because it's historic. we've never seen enthusiasm at this level before. there is an enormous appetite particularly among democrats to go out and vote donald trump out of office. there is this thing with those who stand with republicans to keep him in office. we saw the result of that which is the democrats did very well. part of that of course is because democrats don't vote as heavily as republicans. so the more energized they are, they may be already planning to vote anyway. democrats may go to the polls in a way they hadn't before. so it'll be interesting to see if the 2018 lesson translates to 2020 or having donald trump on

the ballot will energize republicans even more. >> i think it'll all come down to voter turnout. we've got a lot more to come tonight. i am joined by congress woman sheila jackson lee as they appear to press ahead with impeachment of the president. and in our 8:00 hour award-winning novelist salman rushdie is back. rushdie is back. cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the house judiciary committee moved forward this week, and will take even more steps next week on the impeachment process surrounding president trump. on thursday the committee passed a resolution outlining procedures for future impeachment hearings. still some democrats including speaker nancy pelosi remain hesitant to endorse impeachment. and it all comes as several democratic presidential hopefuls are now calling for the impeachment of supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. joining me now is representative sheila jackson lee of texas who sits on the house judiciary committee. lee, thank you so much for joining us. let me first get your thoughts. do you support the calls that have been coming out from some of the presidential candidates for justice kavanaugh's impeachment? >> well, i think you know that the impeachment process runs directly through the house judiciary committee and then ultimately to the senate if articles of impeachment are voted on. we start first just as we are doing with the president of the united states with an investigation.

i certainly believe there should be an investigation to determine what will the level of the work of the fbi, how extensive was their review of those who provided information, did they receive the information, or were they limited on their investigation. so that's going to have to be determined. there should be a process or is a process set up when there is a call for impeachment, and obviously it has to be worked through the committee. and then ultimately to the house of representatives. >> so just to be clear, representative, have you since this story broke, have you gotten any clarity as to whether or not your committee will in fact investigate the fbi's background check and investigation into some of these allegations back at the time during this confirmation hearing? >> eamon, i have not. but there will be discussion. and i assume as we enter into the week and return many members back to washington, those discussions may become more

definitive. but as you well know, we're in the midst of an impeachment investigation for the president of the united states. we will be talking to cory lewandowski on tuesday. and we plan to continue that work because that's the work that the american people are looking to us to provide answers and the ultimate decision of whether articles of impeachment should be filed on the president of the united states. >> okay. so that's a good point you brought up and i wanted to get your thoughts on that as well. why not simply have the house vote on proceeding with impeachment hearings? why do this piecemeal by piecemeal creating some confusion among those who are looking at the democratic party about whether or not we are having impeachment inquiries, whether or not we are having investigations. it seems like the democratic party is not on the same page about this. well, first of all i'm one of the few members of congress that has been through an impeachment process and one of only three members on the democratic side that have been through an impeachment process which of course was the process of

president clinton. to the republicans it should be well known during that time that they went ahead with the impeachment process without the will, support of the american people. the american people were absolutely against that impeachment. what we are doing is within the house rules and the constitution, we are involved in an impeachment investigation. the i introduced a resolution h-396 a couple of months ago that indicated we should have a resolution of investigation. so here we are. what we're doing is providing a methodical steady continuous investigation with all the witnesses necessary. we are litigating in the courts. we are pursuing the subpoena against don mcgahn. we are having witnesses come in under the rules that we voted on, on thursday in both committee and subcommittee. we are retaining and securing grand jury material confidentially. and we are giving the president in this process an opportunity

for his lawyers to respond in writing. now as we move toward more evidence, you can be assured that there will be a process for the lawyers of the president to then come in and question and proceed as that investigation intensifies. but what we're doing is our audience is not necessarily the democratic caucus. it is the constituents of those members because that's what they say to us. >> fair enough. >> and it is the american people. that's who we are explaining what is going on. >> so you brought up the american people at monmouth university poll finds that about 41% of the american public does not think impeachment proceedings are a good idea. and i'm curious to get your thoughts with that as the backdrop, why have impeachment hearings if you know they are not going to go anywhere in the senate? >> well, if i heard you correctly, 41% do not think we

should proceed. that means a good 59% of the american people think we should. >> sorry, it's the other way around and i apologize if i misspoke. it's 41% who think that it's a good idea not to have impeachment hearings. >> i thought you were giving me break news. [ laughter ] >> no, no, i apologize. it's a bad idea. 51% say it's a bad idea. >> even with that it's 59%, it's not 79%, it's not 80%. what we intend to do is to adhere to our constitutional duties under article i and to indicate to the american people that no one is above the law and hearing to the rule of law. we believe that when we proceed with these hearings, we will get the facts, and that will be our duty. as i recall in the nixon hearings nine months hearings continued in the senate, and it was only toward the end of the smoking gun the tapes were readily made available to the american people. in this instance we are looking

at emoluments. we may be ultimately looking at the hush payments made, and certainly the sort of awkward, inappropriate, and what has been described as obstruction of justice as it relate to issues dealing with general flynn, director comey and mueller. i believe the american people have a right to know. i am not in the midst, our committee is not in the midst of a witchhunt. it is no desire to go against a sitting president of the united states of america. that is not my calling. what my calling is as a member of the united states congress and a senior member on judiciary is to ensure that we ad hire to the rule of law and follow our constitutional authority. >> all right, congress woman sheila jackson lee, thank you so much again for joining us. and i appreciate your time. >> i was excited about breaking news. [ laughter ] all right in. our next hour i'm going to talk to congresswoman kath reason clark, vice-chair of the

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we also have a president right now who seems to treat troops as props, or worse, tools for his own enrichment. we saw what's going on with flights apparently being routed through scotland just so people can stay at his hotels. i'll tell you as a military officer, the very first thing that goes through your mind, the first time you ever make eye contact with somebody that you are responsible for in uniform is do not let these men and women down. this president is doing exactly that. i will not. >> all right. so that was mayor pete buttigieg on the debate stage on thursday night referencing recent reporting about air force stays at the president's resort in scotland. the air force has now confirmed that crews have in fact stayed at turnberry up to 40 times since 2015. that number comes from the preliminary results of an internal investigation by the air force that was launched in the wake of natasha bertrand's initial report for politico. the house oversight committee is also investigating it.

joining me now from washington political national correspondent and msnbc contributor natasha bertrand and former secretary of the air force during the obama administration deborah lee james. she is the author of the book "aim high: chart your course and find success." also with us here phillip bump and maria teresa kumar is also joining us as well. secretary james, let me begin with you, if i may, because as we mentioned there in the setup, the air force is saying that these stays in fact date back to 2015. that was when president obama was still in office, and you were still secretary of the air force. do you know about this, and do you know how many times crews may have stayed at turnberry before president trump took office? >> aymon, i did not know about this specifically. but i will tell you that it is not unusual when a military airfield overseas is either full or because of weather conditions or some other operational reason. it is not all that unusual that a military flight would in fact

land at an approved civil airport. >> okay. so to that point, can you, secretary james, tell us who typically decides where military crews stay overnight during these routine trips and what more do you know about how these decisions were made generally over these years? >> typically when you're dealing with a location overseas which is not one of our military locations overseas, there is an agent on the ground who is hired via a contract, and then there are approved locations which usually charge an amount of money which is within the per diem allowance of these individuals. that agent will decide where to vector different people. they typically will ride in a bus or some kind of a vehicle together to go to that overnight location. so it is the agent on the ground who will make that decision. and again the agent is contracted with the air force. >> natasha, tell us a little bit more about what you've learned since you broke this story about

a week ago about the status of both the air force's internal investigation, the one taking place by the house, given the fact that you've got the air force essentially saying, yeah, this happened, but it also happened during president obama's time in office. >> yeah. so, i mean, i think that the differentiation here that we need to make is that of course obama didn't own turnberry, and that is why of course the air force is now launching this review to determine whether or not the perception of this and whether ethically it's a practice that should continue because of course when they're staying at the trump resort, then that in effect is helping boost trump's businesses. so whether federal funds should be doing that for the president i think is an entirely different question than whether they should've been staying at turnberry under president obama. the air force has been giving us this 2015 figure. but trump's resort was actually closed throughout september 2015 through mid-may of 2016. so that's a big chunk of time that they really couldn't have been staying at the resort. on top of that flights into

prestwick airport, the civil airport that the former secretary referred to earlier have increased about fivefold since 2015. overnight stays in the area have gone up from 40 in 2015 to 220 between 2018 and 2019. so obviously the amount of options available are also going to be pointing more towards turnberry as those figures go up. so we don't know right now what the exact numbers are in terms of when, you know, how many times they have stayed at turnberry since 2017. but i think what the house oversight committee and what the air force now is trying to do is say we are in a pretty unprecedented situation here where we have a president who owns a resort now that the air force crews are lodging in with regularity. >> and you've been doing some incredible reporting on this being very persistent to follow up contrasting the differences between 2015 and now. in your latest reporting, you are recounting a phone call that you had with one of the general

managers i believe of trump turnberry. the tell us a little bit about that call because i believe you described it as angry. >> yeah. he was pretty livid. you know, he found out that we, like any, you know, journalist would do, we are calling around and asking former staff, you know, how often the military crews had lodged there, what kind of accommodations they were provided. he caught wind of that, and he gave me a call and he actually refused to tell me anything about the accommodations that they have been providing to the military, and i thought that was rather odd because obviously if they have nothing that they want to keep from the public here, then it doesn't really make much sense why he'd be reluctantant to talk to us. but essentially he said, you know, turnberry was its knees till 2014 when trump and his family bought it. and so they feel a great deal of loyalty to the family and for some reason was just very unwilling to talk to us anymore about it. >> maria, let me get your thoughts on this, given that the air force has come out and said there were stays during president obama's time in

office. does that neglect some of the concerns that the folks have been raising about the emonthliment aspects to trump turn berry? >> if we only see this as an isolated incident, it's easier to get out of it. but when you look at the totality of how government officials are using trump's properties to promote their own, you know, to promote their own issues or promote the president in many ways, that's where it becomes difficult. what i mean by that is it was recently disclosed that the attorney general is going to be having the department of justice their holiday party to the tune of $30,000 at a trump hotel. when you know that vice president pence when he is visiting dublin, he has to take a helicopter that is 181 miles out to stay at a trump property, again, that is taxpayers footing the bill. when he announces the g7 is going to be held the next time in mar-a-lago, again the government is footing the bill. so it is not just isolated. it's looking at it in its

totality. we can have a whole show dedicated on what areas the president is using government dollars to pay for his properties. but those are just three examples on top of what the military is showing right now. so it is the totality of it that there needs to be house oversight investigation. it's one of the strings that people say is this grounds for impeachment. again, not just this one but the totality of how the government is using trump organizations to basically to stay and for the president to line his pockets. >> secretary james, i want to turn really quickly to another story, if i may, that is impacting the branch of the military that you used to oversee. nbc news obtaining a report compiled by the air force which found that president trump's plan to pay for a border wall by taking funds from more than four dozen air force military construction projects poses actually various national security risks for the armed forces. and according to the report those projects include security improvements to a base in

turkey. and the report also states, quote, if not funded, the main gate remains vulnerable to hostile penetration in the midst of contingency operations. we all know in that region what we face. what is your reaction to that? >> i think it's a very regrettable move. it's a move that i think is going to get further scrutiny by the congress. but the fact of the matter is these milcon projects which now have been deferred in order to pay for this wall on the border with mexico, there are readiness concerns. i think they were chosen. i'm not sure who exactly chose them. the air force had some input, but they were not the final arbiters of the selected projects. but whoever chose them i think in part chose them because a good many of them were overseas. and there is likely the belief that there would be less of a political dustup if they were not taken from projects here at home. but the one in turkey is particularly troubling to me

because there have been increased threats against our forces in turkey ever since the syria action began. so that one in particular i would like to see reversed. >> phillip, really quickly, it doesn't seem like members of the republican party are going to counter the president diverting money away from the air force and security projects like this for that border wall, even though he promised mexico to pay for it. >> this all goes back to the politics of this. the republicans see that he's very popular. every single republican in the house is up for re-election next year. they don't necessarily want to muddy those waters. >> philip, and maria thereeresa kumar. when we return a climate in crisis. >> i'm jake ward in seattle. aboard the first factory trawler built on the west coast in 30 years. i will explain why geopolitics and climate change have made american fishing so hard in the last few years. e last few years

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the fight over the future of american waters was on full display they week. the trump administration revoking a major obama-era regulation that protected many u.s. wetlands and streams. and the house voted this week to bring back a decades-long ban on oil and gas drilling in alaska's april that nal wildlife refuge. commercial fishermen are noticing something as the seas warm and the ice disappears. the fish that were once so abundant are moving farther north. they are more spread out and are increasingly in more dangerous waters. nbc's jake ward reports. >> reporter: fishing boat captains live by the patterns of the ocean. and that's why captain bob sees climate change so clearly. scientists have said for years that warming oceans will harm the fishing industry. >> a fishing boat may not be able to find the fish where it

always has because they have moved north. they are mixed in with different species or they are deeper and harder to find. >> reporter: in fact right now a massive heat bloom is changing thousands of miles of the pacific ocean. the last time this happened five years ago marine life was decimated. alaska's southern coast alone lost more than 100 million pacific cod. captain hezel has to adapt to survive. >> we have 35, 40-year-old boats as an average up there. and that's just not applicable for where we need to go to be efficient. >> reporter: and that means he needs a new species of boat. this is america's finest, a 264-foot factory trawler. that's the term for a boat that has a whole factory in the hold. this one uses electric cranes, robots and a crew of 49. >> i was always wondering how many more years i was going to be able to do it. but now on this boat with the technology we have here, maybe i can do this for another 15, 20

years. >> reporter: so why is this the first american factory trawler built on the west coast in 30 years? >> one day you may have rights to a fish and certain species. the next day that may change. fishing quotas change. this year we may have a certain amount. next year we don't. to make large capital investments in that environment is very difficult to do. >> reporter: american fishing is under two big pressures. the first is geopolitical. they're only allowed to catch a certain number of fish. they compete against other countries that don't abide by those restrictions and tariffs have tanked the price of fish. the second is climate. the planet is changing. the oceans are warming. the fish are going all over the place. and so this $80 million boat built to go further north than ever before is in fact quite common in other countries because it's exactly what they will need to fish in the future. but here in the united states this boat is one of a kind. >> this has a lot of

sophistication built into it. and like i said, it's state of the art in the world right now. >> there are a couple of feet of ice this thing can punch right through it. >> these electric winches are able to pull 70,000 pounds each. this whole deck opens up and we drop all the fish down, it holds about 80 tons in these two tanks. >> there is a whole factory under what we're standing on. >> absolutely. >> so you can do 20 miles an hour carrying hundreds of tons of fish. >> a thousand. >> reporter: still it'll take this boat a decade to pay for itself. and both the climate and the politics could change in that time. no wonder so few companies want to pay to build one. the question is whether the american fishing industry already endangered can survive long enough to adapt to this changed world. >> all right. jake joins me live. climate change is seen as an issue for scientists, for

intellectuals, certainly for politicians and activists. but this really has a severe impact on those who work with their hands every day. going to swaths of the american economy, right? people who make their living off the ocean are being crushed right now. i mean, for some sectors, people who fish for cod and pollic, it's still going pretty strong because they're moving in ways they haven't seen before, but somebody like a crab fisherman is getting destroyed right now. between all of that and these geopolitical pressures, the things we talked about, things like tariffs are causing more than 90% of what you saw that boat about to catch is going to go to asia, that's where their market is because tariffs cause the price to come down by 25%. a job you work what you do is worth 25% less, that's the world these guys are looking at. and so it's just going to get harder and harder. so between the climate change, the geopolitics, this is just a really complicated time to try

to make your living at sea. >> jake wart, thanks for that very impressive reporting. appreciate it. all this week, nbc news and msnbc confront the issue of climate change from reports with al roker in greenland and nbc news team all around the globe. thursday and friday, chris hayes and ali velshi will moderate a two-day forum featuring 2020 presidential candidating including senators bernie sanders, cory booker, mayor pete buttigieg and more. more "kasi d.c." in just a moments. (man) hey. go home. (woman) banjo! sorry, it won't happen again. come on, let's go home. after 10 years, we've covered a lot of miles. good thing i got a subaru. (man) looks like you got out again, huh, banjo. (avo) love is out there.

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enrolled. >> enrolls people regardless if they choose to opt in lose your job, for instance. his, his health care plan would not automatically enroll you. you would have to opt in. my health care plan would. that's a big difference. i'm fulfilling the legacy of barack obama and you're not. >> i'll be surprised at him. >> so after a heated debate in houston, vice president biden takes to the pulpit on historic sunday to send a message about race in america to try to convince skeptics that message goes deeper than his debate performance. much more next on "kasie d.c." ♪

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♪ welcome to the second hour of "kasie d.c." we're of course going to talk a lot about "the new york times" piece about accusations against brett kavanaugh in just a bit. when house democratic caucus chair katherine clark joins us live for that conversation. but first, three days after the third democratic debate, former vice president joe biden commemorated the 16th street baptist church bombing in birmingham, alabama, that claimed the lives of four young girls in 1963. he spoke about the issue of race

in a very different way than he did in houston during that debate. >> we must acknowledge that there can be no realization of the american dream without grappling with the original sin grappling with the original sin of slavery. we have not relegated racism and white supremacy to the pages of history. but the greatness of this nation has always been and must continue to be that we still strive to relegate it. we know we're not there yet and no one knows it better. my mom use to have had an expression, do you want to understand me? walk in my shoes a mile. those of us who are white try but we can never fully, fully understand, no matter how hard we try. we are almost, we are almost at this next phase of progress in my view. >> here was the president on that same topic during the debate on thursday.

>> as you stand here tonight what responsibility do you think that americans need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in our country? >> well, they have to deal with the -- look, there is institutional segregation in this country. and from the time i got involved i started dealing with that. we make sure that every single child does in fact have thr3, 4 5-year-olds go to school. bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. it's not that they don't want the help, they don't know quite what to do. play the radio. make sure the television -- excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night. make sure the kids hear words. a kid coming from a very poor school, a very poor background, will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there. >> all right, and may have jumped the gun by referring to him as president, here's the vice president. here's how the vice president.

mayor pete responding to the vice president in an interview this morning. >> it was a well-intentioned answer and it was a bad answer. the vp is interested in -- i think he was trying to get at the issue of how many words infants hear as children. interesting issue. there is a much bigger picture here. and it has to do with inheritance. it has to do with the wealth gap and the fact that if you are black in this country as a consequence of systemic racism you start out with less. >> and with that i'd like to welcome in my panel. with me on set this hour, white house reporter for the associated press and msnbc political analyst jonathan lemi lemire. yahoo! news reporter kadia tubman, msnbc contributor. john pedhoritz. zone us from new orleans, democratic congressman cedric newson. mr. richmond, any may, as we

played in that sound bite for you, mayor pete buttigieg calling the vice president's comments well intentioned but bad. i want to give you a chance to respond to mayor pete. >> well, look, i will say they were well intentioned. i would say they were incomplete. part of it is why it's so unfortunate to try to answer real substantive questions in one-minute segments in a debate. so the one thing we know in the african-american community, and i think people with life experience all over the country, is that actions speak louder than words. and so we can look at the vice president's actions from when he resigned from a law firm to become a public defender. back in the heart of the civil rights movement. that he's been on the battlefield of civil rights and criminal justice his entire life. so look, was the answer perfect? no, and i wouldn't even pretend to say that. but part of it was he was trying to get in an answer because we went through a whole sisterment on foreign policy, which is he is the most knowledgeable on

foreign policy. and he didn't get a chance to answer. so i think that in his desire to address foreign policy and everything else, we got the answer we got. but everybody knows who he is. and i would again say, actions speak louder than words. first, because race has become an important issue in this race, and certainly part of an important conversation that has taken place in this country, let me get your thoughts on a few things. you have the comments he made about segregationist senators that rubbed people a long way and a lot of people condemned those comments. the controversy over that poor kids versus white kids, he had that gaffe as well, you may recall that. now we have this head-scratching debate answer about slavery and reparations in general. are you at all concerned that the vice president, these issues are constantly adding up, may actually weigh in on voters' minds but that he has no clear answer about some of these very important topics about race?no,.

and what i don't want -- i'm about to say i don't want to be viewed as donald trump attacking the media. but you all really highlight everything that he does a lot more than anybody else. for example, he worked with segregationists and he passed extension of the voting rights act. i just worked with donald trump, who we all know is a racist, white supremacist, and almost a just downright bad guy. but i worked with him to pass criminal justice reform and pass the first step act. nobody criticized me, hakeem jeffries, cory booker, kamala harris, or anybody else for working with donald trump, who we don't like. bus it's a lot bigger than any one person. it's about a next generation of people. it's about the community. so sometimes we have to work with people we don't like to achieve a goal. so if you don't criticize me for working with donald trump, then i don't think you can criticize vice president biden for working with the people who were in the senate at that time.

and by the way, it was a different day, and many of the people in the senate had views on race relations that were backwards, that were wrong, that were sinful. but he had to deal with the sin that he ha -- the senate he had, not the senate he wished it could be. >> let me play a sound bite i'm sure you're familiar with, julian castro and the vice president. watch this. >> one of the things that disturbed me in the debate is i look forward to a serious discussion -- >> it's something that you're very familiar with, that is the exchange between julian castro and vice president where essentially, by many people's interpretations, questioned his age. what was your reaction when you saw that moment play out on stage and the vice president's age being questioned by julian castro? is that fair game or not? >> well, one, i think it's, again, the manner of the debate. if you're down at one, two,

three, four, 5%, if you're not the front-runner, you're looking for a breakout moment. i think the former secretary was looking for a breakout moment. i think what he found, though, is that democrats, especially southern democrats, we're very fond of respect and manners. and it's one thing to say you're wrong. it's another thing to just be disrespectful with it. and then if you look at the facts and the fact checkers, vice president biden was right and castro was wrong. so look, i think that a healthy debate is good. and i have a candidate who probably, yes, he may have forgotten more things than castro will ever know in his lifetime. but age and wisdom and experience is not a bad thing. and i think that we ought to celebrate it, not just try to attack people in 30-second sound bites. representative richmond, stay with us. i want to widen the conversation to our panel. katie, let me get your thoughts in terms of what the representative was saying about

how the vice president has been on the issue of race with some of those points identified. >> one thing that representative richmond pointed out is that people are looking at his actions. and they speak louder than his words. but also looking at his actions, they're looking at the 1994 crime bill that has been blamed for a lot of mass incarceration within communities of color. they're looking at how he handled anita hill hearings and the woman of color in that situation. they're looking at other parts of his record that may challenge, even though he is a champion of woman's rights, affirmative action, civil rights, voting rights, these issues are coming up because those were his actions. they're not going to be taken lightly by a lot of the progressives watching today. >> john, did you want to weigh in? >> okay, so biden's miss they've take supposedly in the debate is when he was asked about the legacy of slavery, he said, we still have institutional segregation, and i've been spending my career trying to deal with breaking down the barriers posed by institutional

segregation. i'm at a loss to understand why that is a controversial or wrong-headed or tone-deaf answer. because what he is saying is, as a public official, we have public policy matters that stem from long-term american failures, social failures. as a politician all i can do is try to address them in legislation and in executive action. and i did it. and that's what he was saying. if the idea was he was supposed to be emotive about the horrors of slavery, i think part of it is he was accepting that as a given, so then this morning he gives the speech that he gives in birmingham to try to add some of the emotion that he was not showing in that answer. but, you know, is it what you -- i mean, i'm not a fan of biden's particularly, but isn't that what you want from a politician that you ask him a question about something important and he says, well, here's what i think we need to do politically and

logistically to answer the problem that you're raising. that would seem to be what a politician is supposed to offer the american people. >> so jonathan, let me take your opinion on this, which is, what is it that people had an issue with the way the president -- the vice president, again, i keep misspeaking, the vice president answered that question? why did it come across as if it was an ambiguous, unclear, rambling answer? >> two things at once. first of all, just the mention of a record player struck a lot of people sort of funny. it highlighted a growing narrative around the vice president is the idea that his age has become an issue. even though he's not the olde e candidate for president. biden has had a stream of gaffes. a stream of -- and he's always been someone who gets tongue tied. but he's made some sort of real mistakes the last few weeks, raised eyebrows. his campaign has kept him more sheltered than other candidates. i think there's a sense he's been protected and company

delled. in the same debate he made an answer about iraq and afghanistan and seemed to mix them up. i think the terms of the vice president on race, it was the idea of -- mayor pete sort of got there, floating the study that's about the number of words you hear as an infant, whether that sets your learning ability going forward. that's largely been disproven. there's contrary evidence presented to that. i think it showed a disconnect for the vice president to really answer an issue on race, particularly because also the base of his support to this point has been african-american voters. >> again, like i -- it's weird that i'm sitting here defending biden, but that study about the number of words that are heard in a household was the backbone of an enormous social justice effort in california, led by rob reiner, on early education and the need to get pre-k and nursery school education. i mean, it's a highly

problematic thing, but for everybody to go, oh, that's disproven, and nobody -- it actually -- he's citing all this kind of stuff, again, maybe old, but that was liberal talking points about liberal legislation to expand government efforts to help young minority children. including social workers going into the homes to help and help young parents who don't know how to parent. all of that is -- the agenda of the democratic party until about three minutes ago, as far as i can tell. >> you want to respond? >> john, that is the exact issue that people are taking when it comes to biden in this comment, he is pointing at the homes and the families and the parents as part of the reason that can actually be a part of any solution to the structural indifferences and inequalities between races in america. however we're looking for this is not just about homes and families and parenting and reading. this goes beyond, it's much deeper. while biden points out this

issue of race goes far deeper and is more structural and larger than anything we can defend, it's going to take a new approach to get to us solving these issues. focusing on parenting and families is not going to be it or enough. >> congressman, senator -- sorry, sir, did you want to weigh in? >> yeah, i would just say that i don't think, when he talked about social workers, that he was saying that it's the only answer. he built from his life experiences where his father would not take him to college campuses because his father was embarrassed and didn't know what questions or answers to ask on a college campus. but part of it is, and i think that all the panelists are right, we cannot have a conversation about race and how we fix structural racism, how we embower black families in a minute. so i would just say, go look at his 20-minute speech at the urban league where he talked about economic empowerment for african-americans. for us to sit back and play monday morning quarterback about a one-minute opportunity to

answer all of how we correct 400 years of mistreatment and enslavement of african-americans, i just think that for us to sit back now, it's easy. but we need to look at the body of work. and i wish i had more time to address crime bill issues and others in terms of him trying to fix a deadly problem in the african-american community, and if it was overcorrection, it was overcorrection, but it was overcorrection to a lot of carnage in the african-american community, and i grew up on the streets during those times, and it was real. so i think that is just -- it warrants a more robust conversation, and i think all of the panelists are right but i'm with joe biden because my 5-year-old and a whole generation of african-american children can't afford to lose this election to donald trump because he is the clearest and present danger to the future of this great country. >> all right, i'm sure we'll

have this conversation in the months and weeks ahead. congressman, senator, thank you very much. kadia tubman, thank you very much. don't go to bet before the kasie dvr. our team of producers watched the sunday shows so you won't have to. and what happened in north carolina? inside this remarkable scene at a time statehouse. congresswoman katherine clark, democratic leadership, now some of her members are calling for not one but two impeachment inquiries.

joining me now, congress well katherine clark of massachusetts. she's vice chair of the house democratic caucus. congresswoman, thank you very much for joining thus evening. let me start with the topic of impeachment if i may. because there is some confusion about whether the house judiciary committee is actually carrying out an impeachment inquiry or an impeachment investigation. i'm curious to get your thoughts. which is it as far as you're concerned? >> it's good to be with you, and i think that chairman jerry nadler has been clear that we -- they are one and the same. and that the committee has voted to open an impeachment investigation, or inquiry if you want to call it that, which is the next step in formalizing the investigations that have been going on since the house took over the majority. >> in a new filing on friday, though, the justice department,

congresswoman, argued that the house judiciary committee's efforts to obtain evidence and testimony from the mueller probe should be denied because quote the house has been emphatic that the investigation is not a true impeachment proceedings. what is your response to that? >> i think that the committee has been very clear that we have opened an impeachment investigation. and this is a continuation of the work that we have been doing, upholding our article 1 responsibility to hold this administration accountable. when we look at what we have seen from the obstruction charges in the mueller report, the hush money that was paid, the use of pardons to try and get away with illegal behavior in the white house and in the administration, these are the type of activities. just this week, seeing self enrichment by having military planes land on and use the golf

courses overseas for housing when our military are flying there. these are the type of allegations that we have a responsibility to investigate. put the facts before the american people. and at the same time, we are going to continue with the work we're doing for the issues that families care about, that they talk about around their kitchen table. and that starts with health care. >> if i may, because you brought up the point of the american people and the topic of impeachment, and you had a monmouth university poll that asked pollsters, should trump be impeached and removed from office? 35% yes, 59% no, 6% remain undecided. the entire democratic caucus is also not on board with this. you've got about 134 who support an impeachment inquiry, and you have members of the democratic party who are essentially dragging their feet on whether or not there should be an

impeachment investigation that plays out before 2020. >> so i think that is exactly what we are doing. we are investigating, we are living up to our responsibility under the constitution. to make sure that we do put those facts before the american people, that they understand what has happened. and we are going to follow those facts where they lead us. but as i was saying, at the same time, we are going to continue to pressure the senate that is not taking up the substantive bills that we are putting forward and is just stonewalling us at every turn. just this august we lost 53 americans in mass shootings. in dayton, ohio, in el paso. that doesn't even count the lives that are forever changed due to gunshot wounds and the daily gun violence we see around this country.

for 200 days we have had two common sense bills widely supported across political ideologies by the american people that can take a concrete step to reducing violence and saving american lives. and what have we heard from the senate? nothing but crickets. and it is unacceptable that as we face this public health crisis we do not have a leader in mitch mcconnell who is willing to put these issues in front of the senate. if you don't want to vote for it, don't vote for it. and you can go home and explain why you were willing to let blood continue to run in our streets. but whether it's the gun violence bills, whether it's protecting pre-existing conditions, pay equity, these bills deserve a vote in the senate. and we're going to keep the pressure on to do it. >> let me get your thoughts on one other development over the weekend, congresswoman. that is in response to reporting

on a new sexual misconduct allegation against supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. you tweeted earlier he should never have been confirmed. should he be impeached? >> i don't think he should have been confirmed. i think it was rushed through. and even though he was and he now sits on the supreme court, that doesn't mean he was cleared. and as we have new evidence emerging, new investigations that are being done by journalists, even if they weren't done in the senate when his nomination was put forward and really rushed forward without regard to dr. ford and to the other women's allegations, if we are going to change the culture of sexual harassment in this country, we need to take these investigations seriously. and if the facts lead us there, i think impeachment is on the table for justice kavanaugh. >> finally, congress woman,

there's been a lot of but in your state in massachusetts, and some of the politics, about a clash between senator markey, joseph kennedy iii. kennedy is expected to announce whether he will challenge markey by the end of the month. hypothetically who would you support? >> i can tell you this, both ed markey and joe kennedy are friends. they are incredible colleagues. and they respectively are outstanding senator and member of congress. and i think that the voters of massachusetts, if this becomes a primary, are going to have two outstanding candidates to choose from. and we're going to let the process play out. >> all right, fair enough. congresswoman katherine clark, thank you very much for joining us this evening. >> >> coming up, president trump says the u.s. is quote locked and loaded following a drone attack on a saudi oil field. it's not the first time he has used that expression about iran. we'll talk about that next on kasie dc.

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welcome back, everyone. president trump tweeting tonight that the u.s. is quote locked and loaded pending verification of who carried out an attack on the world's largest oil refinery

in saudi arabia. yemen's houthi rebels claimed responsibility for the attack on the oil processing facility and oil field but the u.s. and saudi governments have already pointed the blame at iran. it comes days after john bolton, who is known to have hawkish views on iran, was forced to resign as national security adviser. jonathan lemire and john pedhoritz are back. boaten is out. he was one of the biggest proponents of taking a very tough line on iran. some said even confrontational, wanting to or at least advocating for a military strike of some sort in a limited capacity. with his voice not in the room now, where does the president stand on being hawkish on iran? >> you saw the tweet tonight, he's certainly willing to at least use the rhetoric, the bellicose rhetoric for that. he has been far more reluctant to actually engage in any sort of military exercise, military activities, with iran.

he is for the most pat -- he's ordered air strikes in syria but for the most part he's stayed away from that. bolton did take a much harder line. they had clashed in recent months. the president has prized his image of trying to be a dealmaker, that he could bring kim jong-un to the table, we've had a few summits that haven't accomplished anything, kim jong-un is still firing missiles from north korea. i is wall with the president when he went to the dmz and he stepped across in north korea. there's been rumors when the united nations general assembly happens, gathers in new york, the president might want to have a dramatic meeting with iranian officials there. that was something bolton very much opposed. it was that as well as the camp david, the proposed talks with the taliban, sort of led to him being sent out the door. we are seeing here, yes, u.s. government officials don't believe the yemeni rebels were possibly capable of a strike like this, they say this

technology points toward iran, and they are amping up the rhetoric and the threats ton night. >> you had secretary of state mike pompeo pointing the finger at iran saying they are responsible for almost 100 attacks on saudi arabia. the foreign minister of iran, mohammad yeah individual zarif, treating out the idea of maximum pressure has failed, now it's turning to maximum deceit. do you see it that way, that this administration is obfuscating who's behind this? saudi arabia is engaged in a war against rebels in yemen, but they're taking ate step further, and is that does dangerous to say iran is directly responsible for these attacks? >> it's only dangerous if it's not true, and i can't -- pompeo's statement was so definitive that it's hard -- unequivocal is the right word, i'm sorry. so -- but then the president seems to be walking it back a little, right? he said, we're locked and loaded? once a determination is made.

pompeo sounded like the determination had been made yesterday. then today trump is kind of slapping pompeo back a little because he says, i never said i would meet rouhani, the head ayatollah in iran, without preconditions, that's fake news. but we all heard pompeo say on national television that the president was prepared to meet rouhani without preconditions at the u.n., at the -- >> let me play that for you really quickly, watch this. >> secretary pompeo, for clarity, can you foresee a meeting between trump and the iranian leader later this month surrounding the united nations? >> sure. >> would the president support that, and do you support that actively? >> the president's made it very clear, he is prepared to meet with no preconditions. >> so he tweets out, no preconditions is fake news. >> right. >> his own secretary of state said it. so this is why you can't take anything that comes out of this administration at face value.

i don't mean that there's deceit, i mean that -- >> confusion. >> trump doesn't want it to have been said today, but thursday he didn't mind. but today he minds. it is maddening. >> first of all, the president is not shy about contradicting his subordinates at any time, publicly or privately. aisles it's part of how he views his negotiations. he wants the wiggle room. he doesn't want anything said definitively. he wants preconditions one day, no preconditions the next. it's how he's approached this. bolton was more focused on the policy. for the president it's the personality. it's about trying to make that connection with the foreign leader. whoever that might be. often an authoritarian figure. thinking he himself, as he phrases it, the ultimate dealmaker, can bring this together, some sort of agreement that potentially could end this crisis. >> i was reminded the president actually said that, no preconditions, to chuck todd, when he met with him. >> yep. >> on "meet the press." so yes, simply to say a lot of

confusion, but it depends on where the president is on any given moment. >> the confusion is not just for us and the media. members of his own administration. also for the iranians. >> appreciate that, guys. much more to come tonight, including, of course, kasie dvr. first all things fall apart on the floor of the statehouse in north carolina. i'm joined live by one of the lawmakers who says that he is tired of being embarrassed of his state legislator, that's coming up next. that one?! no! what about that?! no! what about now?! no! that do it?! [ buffer stops ] still not working! how 'bout now?! no! i just don't know. i mean, i don't know who labeled this thing. yeah?! no!

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how dare you do this, mr. speaker! if this is the way you believe democracy works, shame on you! this is not appropriate and you know it! the people of north carolina, you will answer to the people of north carolina! >> all right, so that was north carolina state representative and minority whip deb butler on wednesday. for months north carolina's republican-controlled house has been trying to pass a new budget after democratic governor roy cooper vetoed the last one in june. now democrats are outraged because republican leadership told members that there would be no vote on wednesday. but wednesday morning, with all but nine democrats absent, house speaker tim warr called a surprise vote to overturn the veto. and with 55 republican members present, that motion, believe it or not, passed. joining me is north carolina's

democratic state senator, jeff jackson. san fernando jackson, great to have you with us this evening. where do things go from here now that republicans managed to drive this thing through? >> it's all on us now in the north carolina state senate. you've got 50 state senators, 21 of them are democrats, you need all 21 to sustain a veto. so it's goal line defense time. we can't let them get this past us because if we do, it means you can forget about medicaid expansion which helps 500,000 people in the state, creates 40,000 jobs, saves 1,000 lives. forget about giving teachers the raise they deserve. republicans will push through their sixth corporate tax cut instead. while this sounds like procedural gamesmanship, the stakes are real, we're talking about real lives here. >> i want to drill in on an important part, the procedure and the process. there's been back and forth in the media over the details of why so few democratic lawmakers were in the receipts wednesday morning in that surprise announcement what will the

answer to that question as far as you know it? why were so few democrats present at the time of the vote? >> the reason so few were present at the time of the vote is they were told that vote was going to be basically a ceremonial nonvoting session. which we have almost every single morning. that the real voting session was going to be in the afternoon. one of the reasons you know that that's what they were told is because while that session was meeting at 8:30, the finance committee was meeting at 9:00 a.m., which a lot of them were preparing for. if 8:30 a.m. had been a real voting session you would never have a finance committee meeting half an hour later. because the house has 120 members. they can't pass anything in half an hour. so you had members preparing for the finance committee, they weren't going to go to an empty house floor where no business was going to happen, unless they happened to be walking past, which is why you had nine members. there was to be no business conducted at that time. so they were busy doing other things. >> you probably saw the clip we played earlier. that was from state representative deb butler and her protest on the house floor

that took place on wednesday. obviously that has gone viral. a lot of folks in this country have seen it. listen to what she had to say on our air just yesterday. >> they couldn't beat us fair and square, ken dis. we had them on the votes. they have tried to bribe us. they have tried to catch us with our pants down. they have done every shady trick in the book. and we have held firm. >> do you agree with that, representative, sir? >> deb is absolutely right. i even like her phrasing, they can't beat us fair and square because they don't have the numbers. people don't appreciate just how hard house democrats have been working over the last two months, because what the republicans did, rather than call a vote, which they knew they would lose, they laid siege to the house democrats. so that meant democrats had to skip anniversaries, skip the first day of kindergarten for their kids, skip vacations. there was a house democrat receiving chemotherapy who brought into session over and over, because any of those sessions could have been the one where they called a vote. they laid siege. after 60 days they couldn't

break the siege so they lied to the house democrats in order to get through it. and now it's on the senate. and we are going to maintain our defense. we intend to defend this veto. we are all going to hang together on this. >> let me, sir, get your final thoughts. the whole budget fight is actually happening against the backdrop of district maps being essentially gerrymandered. and with that a court has said that gerrymandering would have -- the districts would have to be redrawn by this wednesday. how is that separate effort playing out? >> well, we think the courts are going to take a very close look at this process. because we've had one process in the senate, we've had a different process in the house. but the bottom line is, you've got a majority that illegally gerrymandered in order to have a majority. it was a super majority for most of the decade. as a result, they never had to negotiate with democrats. this year is the first time, and this budget is the first budget this decade, where they had to negotiate. and they are terrible at it.

and they are doing anything they can to get around it. and they are terrified that fair maps are going to hurt them in the next election and cost them their majority, and this move is going to make that even more likely. people understand now this isn't just about medicaid or teacher pay, this is about basic fairness, basic honesty, and basic decency. >> all right, state senator jeff jackson of north carolina, thank you, sir, for your time this evening. when we return, author salman rushdie joins me live in the studio to talk about his new book. ♪ he'd be proud of us. a family business should stay in the family. see how lincoln's insurance solutions can help protect your family, your business and everyone who counts on you, at lincolnfinancial.com your business and everyone who counts on you,

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there were no rules anymore. in an age of anything can happen, well, anything could happen. old friends could become new enemies. traditional enemies could be your new besties or even lovers. it was no longer possible to predict the weather or the likelihood of war or the outcome of elections. that's one of the opening passages of booker prize winning author salman rushdie's new book "quishotte." although president trump is not mentioned in your book, first of all, how was my reading there?

>> excellent. >> i nailed it? >> totally. >> great, i wanted to make sure i was capturing your voice. although the president was not mentioned there, we've kind of been talking about the chaos of everything in the way he tweets and comments. he certainly is felt throughout this book. >> well, i think -- yeah, his name isn't in there because i just didn't want his name in there. but clearly we live in this world in which crazy things happen every day. which you have to report on. people want to bomb hurricanes with nuclear weapons. things that defy, if you make up in a story would probably not be published because they're so improbable. the improbable happens every day. it's not only in america. what's happening in britain is as crazy as what's happening here. in many ways what's happening in india is very alarming as well. so we do live in this age of anything can happen. when there seem to be no -- the old rules seem to have broken down, we don't know what the new rules are. >> why you decided to write it

in this way where there is a blurring, if you will, of worlds and of realities and the kind of, you know, chaos that we live in. >> partly because it's an enjoyable way to do it. but also i think we do live in a time i think we live in a time in which those boundaries between fact and fiction have been very badly blurred. and it is very hard sometimes to tell what is fact and what is fiction. just watching your show, what is fact one day is fake news the next day. >> luckily we have two experts on that. i will open it up for them as well. but, you know, certainly you bring up an interesting world in the way of our politics. you cover the white house. >> i think what you want also is a tweet from president trump about your book. that would go a long way to help sell it. >> i don't believe he's really a book guy. >> perhaps not one of yours, anyway. for you, how much does it inform what you are thinking and do you feel like this is a permanent

condition now, this chaos and confusion? >> i don't know. we might find more about that next year. at the moment i don't know if this is an aberration or the new normal. my main character is anyway slightly off his head and confused about reality anyway, which gives me a comic way into the business of what is going on, you know, in the country as a whole. he becomes this sort of wanderer through america, not exactly all there himself. experiencing, you know, the kind of crazy reality of the moment. >> so 40 years ago, your first book, right, your first major novel. >> second book. >> second book, you use magical realism in it, these kids who are psychically linked, right, by the -- by the freeing of india for the end of the british empire in india. so magic realism there is a

metaphor for whether or not these nations can build and all of that. >> it became a metaphor of independence. >> of independence. now there is a -- you -- some of your later work, the magical realism is let metaphor cal than it is an expression about chaos rather than about a reflection of a world that is dissending into chaos other than change, right? >> well, it is true. so in a way you just have to find a way of grasping what's going on, rather than exaggerating it. you don't need fantasy anymore. the fantasy is happening every day. >> let me get your thoughts on the interesting part of your story and the opoid crisis. in your book, the main character who is peddling a different

version of pentfentanyl. >> my youngest sister died of what is almost certainly opoid overdose. she is 14 years younger than me. this is 12 years ago. she was only 45 years old. what happens when families are separated by continents and oceans as a lot of families now are is you lose touch of exactly what's going on. so i had no idea how seriously she was involved with this until she died and then we discovered. so it became personal to me. ever since then, i have been investigating it sort of on and off. and only now have felt able to write about it. and then suddenly it explodes into news just as the book comes out. >> yeah. it is certainly on the front pages of this country in terms of what it has done. gentlemen, thank you guys as well for all your insights. it is available. you can get it now.

i highly recommend everyone to read it. when we return, producers watch the sunday shows so you don't have to. hows so you don't have to.

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those drone attacks on the saudi oil facilities. >> rebels in yemen claimed responsibility. >> we will continue to call out maligned behavior. >> the president should engage in diplomacy with iran.

>> it would not be the right approach now. >> the answer is trying to have a negotiated cease fire and bombing iran won't do that. >> the top ten democratic contenders shared the same stage for the first time. >> the most important thing joe biden did is crystallize the debate. >> if you want to throw 149 million people off of their insurance, then i'm not your candidate. >> we're not going to have a medicare for all program in four years. >> to can you recollect said hell yes we're going to take your ar-15. >> they are acknowledging that suz simply not helpful. >> there is a lot of hang wringing about you just said. >> this shows you how screwed up the priorities in washington, d.c. are. >> about vice president biden and the concern about his fitness. >> the last thing i care about is joe biden's age. >> i don't think anyone showed a presence of being presidential. >> all ten of them on that stage met the very low, low bar that

we now have for that word. before we go, let's talk about what we're all watching in the week ahead. john, you are up first. >> i'm looking for whatever curse word beto o'rourke is going to pull out. today he tweeted the s word. he used the f word in various moments and he's running out of them, so he's going to have to get creative and go to george carlin's seven words to get through the week. >> the president is making a west coast trip early this week including an unlikely stop in new mexico, which is the state the campaign believes they could put in play in 2020. the president not fared there well in recent cycles. he has the prime minister in for a rare state dinner, only his second since he's been in the white house. he then leaves for the united nations here in new york at the end of next week. >> so the gridlock begins and we have to get out of town.

>> issues between iran, north korea and manhattan traffic. >> that does it for us tonight on kasie dc. for now, good night from new york. we do not back down. we do not shut up. >> she came to washington ready to fight. >> enough is enough. >> fierce and fearless. >> at best you are incompetent. at worst you were complicit. and either way you should be fired. >> people are asking me sometimes -- >> let me just follow up. >> is elizabeth warren the person she plays on tv? the answer is question. >> i learned about fighting in washington. i learned about fighting against those with