that makes him more likely to but netanyahu is using that. use force if only because he he's saying everyone's against worries about how that's going me, but vote for me. to reflect on him as well. benny gantz, he's coming across pulling back from that iranian as mr. clean. strike because of casualties is he is the main alternative. it's a very, very tight race probably the right thing to do. but it also tells you that he's indeed, ali. >> we are watching closely with viewing every one of these things through how this is going you. nbc news chief correspondent to play for him. so i think, you know, leveraging bill naely. that wraps up the hour for me. himself into a war in the middle i'll see you back here tomorrow east is probably not where he at 1:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. wants to be. eastern. despite the hawkishness of "deadline: white house" with people like mike pompeo, i don't nicolle wallace begins now. ♪ think it's where they want to be. although the international hi, everyone. community, if this is traced back to iran, international it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. community is going to have to do where the white house is facing one of the diceyest foreign something. this is really a remarkable policy crises of its tumultuous escalation in regional tensions. but i'm not sure that just in -- you can insult the president into the use of military force. we saw that even in syria where tenure. that's according to former he would thunder and bluster and national security official who then he would kind of -- he did describes a region aflame with his kind of one and done and age-old tensions prone to then a follow-on strike much deception and full of factions later. so i'm not sure. and players known to be skilled but you're absolutely right, they do study the president's at three-dimensional chess. those actors are now testing the psychological condition. and they're a lot less shy about

erratic conflict-weary tweeter drawing conclusions from it than in chief. this former official points to we are. >> and there is no denying that donald trump's obvious disadvantage against an everyone who talks to him socially or comes in contact adversary like iran as trump is with him talking to him off the phone to lack any interest in record about his relationship policy as well as lacking a team with kim jong-un, he is someone to carry out a coherent policy who is proud of the fact that he at a moment this fraught. even the president's tweets on has not gotten this country into the topic which sound like part military conflicts. what he sees as the biggest news alert, part savor rattling and part differential to the mistakes of the last republican president. here he was talking in the oval saudis confirm concerns about office on a related question. his ability to navigate this >> no. flash point. i don't want war with anybody. saudi arabia oil supply was but we're prepared more than attacked he tweeted. anybody. two and a half years ago i will tell you it was not the same there is reason to believe that we know the culprit are locked thing. and with what we've done we've and loaded defending totally rebuilt our military in verification. but are waiting to hear what the so many different ways. but we've rebuilt it and there kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of the attack and is nobody that has the f-35, who under what terms we would proceed. the president who saw his national security adviser john have the best fighter jets, the bolton excite last week in part over a iran best missiles, the best equipment. but with all of that being said policy is largely seen as being we'd certainly like to avoid it. guided almost exc and out of >> have you seen evidence, proof that iran was behind the attack?

intelligence and foreign policy >> it's looking that way. we are having some very strong circles as an ideological twin studies done. but it is certainly looking that to bolton on iran. both hawks. way at this moment. and we'll let you know as soon pompeo also carrying out his as we find out definitively iran policy on twitter with we'll let you know. this. quote, tehran is behind nearly but it does look that way. >> an undeniable version to 100 attacks on saudi arabia while rouhani and zarif pretend military intervention, but an equally undeniable sort of to engage in diplomacy. alid all the calls for imprecision in dealing with a de-escalation, iran has now very tense region and the launched an unprecedented attack concern i think being more along on the world's energy supply. the lines of incompetently there is no evidence the attacks came from yemen. on what the evidence does show, escalating into conflict, not "wall street journal" reporting planning one. >> well, unlike the different this, quote, american officials hotspots, he has an internal say intelligence indicates that political conflict with iran iran was the staging ground for because he wants for domestic a debilitating attack on saudi political considerations to be arabia's oil industry and has very hawkish on iran. shared the information as both and this has made him popular countries wear retaliatory with conservatives and with strikes. our friend tim o'brien on how the president is likely to israel, with saudi arabia, all contribute to the chaos writes sorts of parties interested in in bloomberg today, it's quote isolating iran. at the same time, he's clearly that the next few days will we know where his instincts are build toward the most momentous on conflict, actual military foreign policy challenge trump

will experience. we've also arrived here conflict. so he'll run through the precisely because of trump's own inventory of the hardware. we've heard this speech before. haphazard and conflict ad approach to regimes he claims to but i was told by a senior national security official in the administration just three want to upend. someone who has presided over the most chaotic white house of weeks ago this was the entire modern times is unlikely to lynchpin to stabilizing the navigate this complicated crisis middle east was that the maximum with the necessary deafness. that is where we start today with some of our reporters and pressure campaign was so effective, the sanctions were so friends. michael crowley. forceful that they really are tom nichols, professor at the crippled in a corner and they were come to the table. u.s. naval war college and so the provocations that we saw foreign policy expert with the earlier in the spring, this was pointed out to me, were on pause. and it was clear that they could sunset. national political reporter from get them to the table and that the washington post. they believe they had this plus associated editor for real leverage. what we see now is in coming to clear politics. the table from rouhani and the bob costa, cannot unwind the president's imprecise and regime who have said if you take the sanctions off we'll come to the table but without that, no. impulsive way of communicating about everything from news coverage to snl to war with iran so that's no deal. now this provocation. so he's really cornered and as from the tinder box that is this robert was saying we just don't region. >> and this is a president who on foreign policy is not an know if tucker carlson and rand paul are going to be in his ear,

idealog in the say way his own lindsay graham, mike pompeo who's going to advocate for what. and that is really undetermined secretary of state. at this time. he has built these relationships but i think what the iranians with saudi arabia. he has so far navigated in his know is that he doesn't want to presidency without any kind of attack on iran. strike there. and he was hoping that they but he has a hawkish party that would come to the table. i do not doubt that he could he leads. he has a hawkish administration still change his mind and say and cabinet. and the choices will be there is reason to believe we presented to him to retaliate. can offer a line of credit and talk at the table once again. but he knows he has a lot of >> it puts us right back into why on earth did we get out of support among noninterventionist the iran deal in the first supporters and independents. >> two former intelligence officials said to me that the place. other than the fact that obama iranians are savvy enough to negotiated it is gone. it would appear that what understand that they could they're inching back toward will deprive trump of two of his big closely reasonable the iran deal re-election branding he ripped up. opportunities, if you will. >> when you talk to white house trump is a noninterventionalist officials, they'd say it was because of president obama's and trump as the creator of a fingerprints all over that iran strong economy if they're able to destabilize oil markets. deal that the president wanted to walk away from it. >> and it's important to remember that this confrontation the spat between senator paul and congresswoman cheney has with iran comes just days after the president was thinking about been a wrikcosm within the republican party that president bringing the taliban to camp trump is going to have to face david to negotiate an end to the as he makes his own decision on u.s. presence in afghanistan. how to move forward. that negotiation pursuit is the question he also has to ask

really in line with who himself is does he want to go president trump was as a before congress before he takes candidate and has been as military action for a president president. but he's in the republican party. who has decried intervention in it's a hawkish party. iran has been there. the past for doing so without and john bolton was seen as the the use of congressionalake a c. shadow hovering over president trump. but the whole time the real if you're really going to attack influential hand has always been iran, whether it's drone strikes or u.s. troops, does congress secretary pompeo. how much does he really push the president at this critical have a right to authorize that moment. >> and on iran, is there any force? >> they haven't shown they want disagreement? >> pompeo is so powerful because to vote on anything related to military force in years. he lets the president be president trump. he's not someone who enacts his agenda in a forceful way. you have an administration that but he has hawkish instincts and has such a lack of trust on the international stage and also to a certain extent with the public the president is going to have that in order to even build that case, the bar is so high and the to face a choice. does he really want to put evidence that they're going to troops in the ground, is there need to put forward to pin it on going to be a drone strike. iran to justify whatever sort of does he try to have regional response is, is so much allies deal with this on their different than you've seen own? >> i was reminded that before we perhaps in previous were locked and loaded we were administrations. cocked and loaded. and on the other side of it, you it's not clear to me what either have the saudis that the means. but the idea that trump talks a american people really trust

either. big game and is known sfofb this is a white house that really wants to build a drum called off a strike isn't lost beat to war with iran. >> and we're talking about saudi on the iranians. on the world stage, what, if arabia who not that long ago any, leverage do we have at this with jamal khashoggi, a writer moment? >> the thing about president trump when he's confronted in for "the washington post," these kinds of moments is you see this inner kind of tug murdered by our reporting the saudi government. between his two impulses or two this is going to perhaps lead to u.s. conflict. ways that he wants to go. he's promised to end these it's an interesting issue endless wars, not get into cop politically and geopolitically because there are a lot of different crosscurrents here that are confronting this white conflicts over seas and loves to talk about the military might of house. >> i think it's more to be more blurngts michael crowley, i think one of the other the u.s. and you saw him do both crosscurrents is that to go to war with iran to protect saudi of those things in the oval office where he was asked does arabia certainly cross pressures this look like it's iran behind donald trump within his base. he really sold his base a promise of no intervention and certainly not on behalf of the this? he then said there's also still time for diplomacy. kingdom of saudi arabia which is so you see this sort of churn and tug of war and no one really what robert costa said donald trump bought their story on has a good sense of where he khashoggi instead of his cia wants to go. that is a little bit different. director. the political pressure, it just he had pullback on the strikes would seem that it would require

the stomach for so many fights last time over the summer allegedly ten minutes before and so many -- you know, this is a president who won't -- who's they were supposed to take place. that's not lost on iranians. so faithful to the nra, he won't but it's also not lost on him even do incremental things that he's a little less supported by gun owners. predictable. the idea that he's going to >> michael crowley, i want to crosspressure his base on the show you the president's war was are in the middle east by a leader who's widely believed to have ordered the slaughter of playing out, donald trump versus donald trump and the question of whether or not he is indeed journalist from "the washington post" seems unbelievable at this interested in meeting with rouhani without preconditions. point. >> it's really hard for me to he's been on two or three sides. see, you know, i do wonder how many members of his base really here he is. care about khashoggi. >> i would certainly meet with iran if they wanted to meet. but in congress that's a >> do you have preconditions for different story. that meeting? a lot of members of congress >> no preconditions, no. they want to meet, i'll meet. were furious about that and how it played out. any time they want. >> the president has made clear, so he's inviting the more he he is happy to take a meeting with no preconditions. embraces the saudi government, the more pushback he's getting >> the president's made it very from members of congress. clear. he's prepared to meet with no you know, and then when it comes preconditions. >> here's what i want. to his base, number one, there is the kind of broken promise anything to get you to the result. >> no preconditions? you might say that people would >> not as far as i'm concerned. no preconditions. be upset about if he were to

>> donald trump either coming start a war with iran. down with some amnesia or but also just the actual changing his mind. the white house position today consequences of that conflict, i is that that's all fake news. mean, it would be a huge, huge michael crowley? >> oh, sorry. yeah, i mean, it's just mess. you know, iraq at least was a country that we were able to inex-applicable. once again the president just militarily defeat and occupy pretty quickly. says something -- i mean, i and then you had this, you know, literally can't explain it, horrible, long occupation with nicole. an insurgency that was what could i say that would edify you? disastrous. but in the case of iran it's it's not true. it's perplexing. i guess if i had to theorize, i just a much more formidable military adversary with a lot would say as the day got closer more ways to counter attack and and the conversations got a retaliate and escalate israel little more serious, maybe gets dragged in. people started asking more the global economy could go up questions, look, if you're going to do this, can't you say that in flames. so, you know, you're not just you got something out of the talking about a kind of iranians and they were starting to think maybe we need some kind theoretical political principle of condition. where trump is kind of betraying but i think that's all pretty his base. moot at this point. it's basically impossible to it's that trump is inviting if he were to risk a serious imagine meeting like that happening. and by the way, you know, the conflict with iran just idea of no preconditions when, potentially, a potential debacle you know, that was the operative in so many ways. reality a few days ago suggested and you have to wonder a white

house without a national that, oh, no, well, i'll talk to security adviser, an acting the iranians, i am not going to chief of staff, i could go on make these initial demands to and on and on. i mean, is this administration them. but they will be very fortunate that i will sit down and talk with them. prepared for something like it's actually not necessarily that? even before this attack in saudi so, it's really -- you know, we're not just talking about arabia was not going to be politics here, as i know you tenable in tehran for rouhani to know. but i just want to underscore, this is really, really serious meet with trump. the iranians feel like there stuff. and, you know, playing with fire have to be preconditions from the u.s. side that, you know, here. they're not going to sort of >> it's a perfectly put point. and i take your note. surrender. they're really not trying to -- my only connection of the two is they don't want to look that donald trump at this point, desperate. i don't think they particularly feel desperate. michael, seems completely by the way, what is this attack incapable of separating the two. do you have any reporting that suggests that there is any sort in saudi arabia suggest? it suggests they are feeling a of track where he's briefed just certain upper hand that they see by national security advisers an american president headed who were just going over policy? into a re-election campaign who or is public utterances all seem doesn't want to get involved in a middle east conflict and may to co-mingle the two? >> yeah. be very vulnerable to surges in i just -- you know, i think that oil prices. what you're hearing in public is so the iranians are exerting a a pretty good -- i don't think we have a lot more understanding leverage here. >> this was precisely the of it than that. analysis that i heard from two >> all right. michael crowley, tom nichols,

former intelligence officials thank you both for spending some today. the irans are, if nothing else, time with us. still to come, the whistleblower incredibly shrewd in their timing that their capabilities scandal at the top of the are largely unchanged from week to week, month to month. nation's top spy agency. but they are students of trump's acting dni faces a american political ebbs and flows. right now donald trump in a very subpoena. we'll go inside that developing politically weakened state. story and a new book about and it's not lost on them that supreme court justice brett kavanaugh has thrust the fbi's by destabilizing the world's oil investigation into his alleged markets, they could deprive sexual misconduct into the trump of his bragging rights to middle of the presidential a strong economy and by luring contest. but 2020 democrats calling for him into some sort of military kavanaugh's impeachment. conflict in the region. but first breaking news. state prosecutors in manhattan they could deprive himself as a are going after donald trump's personal and business tax noninterventionalist. >> and it shows you how much the returns. we'll tell you about the latest salvo when we come back. position of the united states has fallen in the world that we just don't matter that much, that the iranians are doing the things that are in the iranian interest and basically kind of swatting aside the u.s. government, which obviously i don't speak for the government, but they're kind of swatting aside the u.s. government and its allies and saying we really i'm your cat. ever since you brought me home, that day. don't take donald trump or the united states very seriously.

we have our own interests and i've been plotting to destroy you. we're going to act on those sizing you up... interests. calculating your every move. i think what we're always seeing you think this is love? in these cases is the russians this is a billion years of tiger dna just ready to pounce. or the chinese or others is this is what a world without america and if you have the wrong home insurance coverage, looks like when the white house and the commander in chief are you could be coughing up the cash for this. completely preoccupied with so get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, tweeting in all caps about the like me-ow. oil supply and poring over saturday night life to see if it said something mean about them. the united states is basically awol from the international stage. and this is what happens when america exits the international community. i just had one other thing, nicole. the republican party used to be hawkish because it felt like it had to maintain these institutions and keep some order in the world. i think there's a lot less appetite for them in the republican party. this is what happens. this is the problem when you exit the international stage. >> tom, let me press you on something else you said. you talked to former intelligence officials who are

students of studying foreign leaders. they said they do that to us too. and in this country we are reluctant to talk about his uneven performances to ask questions about his (classical music playing throughout) psychological state that there's no such hesitation to do that in foreign capitals, friendly and among our adversaries. what they see is likely someone incredibly erratic, very sensitive to the criticism that russia handed him the election that he couldn't do it on himself. someone so thin-skinned, calling him too weak, calling him too small, calling him not brave could have a very significant impact on his use of the u.s. military. do you agree with that analysis? tom? >> oh, sorry. yeah. i think the president reacts to foreign affairs only entirely through the lens of how it affects him and his standing in the world. unbriefable and un-educable,

particularly on international affairs. so he's goi that said, i don't

we may be one step closer to seeing donald trump's tax returns. nbc news can confirm the breaking report from the "new york times" just a couple hours ago that state prosecutors are aggressively seeking donald trump's tax returns and that they have issued subpoenas to the president's accounting firm to get them. from that times "report, the subpoena opens a new front in a wide-ranging effort to obtain copies of the president's tax returns, which mr. trump initially said he'd make public during the 2016 campaign. but has since refused to disclose. the subpoena was issued by the manhattan d.a.'s office late last monsoon after it opened a criminal investigation into the role that the president and his family business played in hush-money payments made in the run-up to the election. it's this case that resulted in donald trump being named individual one and essentially an unindicted co-conspirator.

michael cohen's sentencing memo in that case is crystal clear saying this, quote, cohen himself has admitted he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. joining our conversation former deputy assistant soerng and host of "the talking fed's" podcast. i have always been told by trump insiders that it is this criminal campaign finance investigation that was first run out of the southern district of new york that is now being pursued by state prosecutors that has always represented the most legal peril to individual one, aka, donald trump. >> yeah. i think we've heard that part because of the aggressiveness of the sdny. but even now under the manhattan d.a. they can do a lot of damage and they've laid a lot of groundwork for a lot of evidence. now cohen appears to be cooperating with them as well. so this really does open a new front in the whole war about

getting his tax records. notice they would still be secret if the d.a. got them. but as opposed to the federal campaign where they're trying to get them from the secretary of treasury who's resisting for no good reason, here it's just going to be straight new york state, the same records and a private accounting firm that has said they will cooperate. this really does, as you say, make it a giant step closer to somebody's having their hands on them. >> and it would seem that all of the pushback against michael cohen around his credibility, from the president's allies, all those tools in donald trump's arsenal fade away when it's an investigation that isn't playing out in the circus environment of congress. >> that's true. that won't stop him from telling people on his twitter feed it's about something else and it's a harassment and everything else. and they will do what they can to convince a private firm to, you know, to not comply, and it'll be interesting to see if

they do. and, again, it's true that they will be protected in the grand jury and it's not likely that we'll see them. but it is -- it's always been clear that his tax returns are the holy grail and that he will do anything to keep them from coming out. and for democrats, it's been a real frustration because they know -- they believe under the statute they have that they legally have the right to get russians emoluments ld violations that they could then legislate for future presidents, you e officeholders. but they're convinced all along that they are not likely to get them before the 2020 election and, you know, we'll see what happens with this case. but the president has always valued keeping these a secret above most things. >> you know, i remember when the president said to a group of

"new york times" reporters that if robert mueller went for any of his business information, that would be a red line. to a.b.'s point, this has always been among the most protected of trump secrets. >> yes. so far they've been successful. what's interesting about this is two things. one is this is a reminder that there is investigation, there's still legal threats to the president that are well outside of congress, which has kind of become a bit of -- they just don't seem to have their act together in terms of investigating the president. but, you know, if they were tos e going to be successful in delaying that, and it's not going to happen for the 2020, that would obviously be a really big vestigation isn't go reveal them either unless they introduce them in some sort of trial. so they're still, if you're trump, you're still winning in that sense because the likelihood of his tax returns being disclosed just seems

increasingly low. at the same time we don't know what he meant by that red line because he's, you know, people are crossing it. they're going after his tax returns. >> the case where he was named an individual on the case that michael cohen is in jail for in part, campaign finance violations. this seemed to me if there was an appetite in congress that they seemed to be doing now on even days. on odd days they call it something else. but this would seem the most directly related to this election. basically donald trump defrauded the voters that by participating in a legal campaign finance scheme that was directly related to telling voters a lie about his personal sexual relationships before his elections. why isn't this issue front and center? why is it one among six for the house judiciary committee? >> it is front and center for many members of the house judiciary committee. when i sit down and talk privately with house democrats,

they are frustrated in a sense because they believe the house intelligence committee on the russia investigation was moving forward at a rapid pace. then the mue defining the issue rather than the house committee. the house committee now on these issues is doing its own probe. but again it's the manhattan d.a. it's other investigators who are taking the lead. so they're sitting there on capitol hill, these elected lawmakers saying they are trying to pursue these investigations but they are waiting for these people in new york to finish the investigation. they want to move forward. now that's why speaker pelosi keeps telling them privately and publicly build a wholesale case against president trump from dunebag and his properties to his personal finances. build a whole case that also involves the russia activity and then make the case to the american people. but it's tough for a lot of these lawmakers because they're not sitting there. >> is that the right strategy? mueller built a whole case. >> it was in a book this big.

nobody read it. >>. >> they are looking for a smoking gun. but they also have some hesitation. is this the emphasis for 2020 or not? should impeachment be the rally cry or should they run on health care and the economy? and there's a real tension within the democratic party. they all want to see president trump removed from office. some want to do it tomorrow through articles of impeachment. others say he's beatable in 2020. don't just focus on impeachment and that makes him a victim. that makes him have a grievance issue. don't give him that. when we come back, the nation's top intelligence official accused of withhelding an urgent raising the question who is he trying to protect. that's next. he trying to prote. that's next. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, your plans can change in minutes. your head wants to do one thing,

but your gut says, "not today." if your current treatment isn't working, ask your doctor about entyvio. entyvio acts specifically in the gi tract to prevent an excess of white blood cells from entering and causing damaging inflammation. entyvio has helped many patients achieve long-term relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. ask your doctor about the only gi-focused biologic just for ulcerative colitis and crohn's. entyvio. relief and remission within reach.

relief and remission we're oscar mayer deli fresh your very first sandwich,m... your mammoth masterpiece. and...whatever this was. because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh.

at least according to the director of national intelligence this involves an issue of privileged communications. now that means it's a pretty narrow group of people that it could apply to that are both above the dni authority and also involve privileged communications. so i think it's fair to assume this involves the president or

people around him or both. >> listen up. this is a crazy story. that was the chairman of the house intelligence committee congressman adam schiff explaining how the president or someone close to him could be behind the decision to withhold a mysterious whistleblower campaign. schiff is now the acting director of national intelligence. quote, schiff issued a subpoena for the complaint accusing joseph maguire of taking extraordinary steps to withhold the complaint from congress even after the intel community's inspector general accused the complaint of urging concern. schiff explained while seen the complaint is so crucial. >> the significance is the inspector general found this complaint to be urgent, found it to be credible. that is they did some preliminary investigation, found the whistleblower to be credible. that suggests corroboration. and it involved serious or flagrant wrongdoing. and according to the director of

national intelligence, the reason he's not acting to provide it even though the statute mandates that he do so is because he is being instructed not to. >> harry litman and the table is back. harry, you write about this today. take us inside what this could be about. >> well, it's a little opaque now, but we know it's part of a national intelligence operation. and they have as schiff says no basis, no legal basis for resisting. but the tissue thin excuse they've given is it involves somebody not in the intelligence community. that's a quite strange undertaking to figure that out because anybody who would be covered normally would be in the intelligence community. however, trump and the white house, technically they are the bosses of it, but they're not in the intelligence community. so that is the most likely supposition of what right now is sort of shielded from view. the number one point is here as in the tax case, there is zero,

zero, zero legal justification for withholding. yet nevertheless they are doing it to force a court battle and buy time. >> is there something that congressman schiff said about the justice department being looped in? why would an inspector general for the intelligence for the dni defer to the justice department? >> yeah. very good point. so in general that's their comfortable home base. and they did say that they looped in there to get a legal opinion. but, again, they then proffered no legal justification. and there really isn't one. this statute, like the tax statute, just says shell. there's really no room there. so it's some kind of temporary i think justification that won't hold up in court. but it gives it a little bit more muscle to say doj was consulted. >> the doj intel intermingling contamination i think some of the intelligence community might call it is one of the most

frightening sort of trumpian new norms, a.b. >> this is the most alarming story. it sounds, you know, harry said it was opaque. you said it was crazy. everyone needs to learn about this story. and i hope there are more whistleblowers out there. this is incredibly alarming. adam schiff knows there is no reason -- schiff said this has never happened before. no one has ever, ever turned down a request like this from the congress, with oversight over the executive branch. the idea that they could get protection like donald trump wants from the justice department for supreme court justice brett kavanaugh from the doj to try to cover up their mess and help them out is unbelievable. i mean, maybe it will buy them time. but this is wrong. the congress's role of the intelligence community is to be involved in matters like this where something has gone wrong

and someone has exposed something important or someone. and, again, i just think it's stunning we have an acting dni, we have an acting department of homeland security secretary. we have -- we've had -- i mean -- >> acting secretary of defense and acting national security -- >> it just sounds lawless to me. >> well, also you can't separate the way we started from where we are now. we started about talking whether or not we are marching to war with iran. the dni was created after 9/11 to create the stream of intelligence. we've now got questions of an inspector general report being held from congress at this incredibly perilous moment for the country. >> it's a really bizarre story, and certainly it sounds -- everything we know sounds very suspicious and weird. and yet i talked to a former senior intelligence official who's no fan of this administration who urged caution in saying we don't know what the

substance of this is. we don't know, you know, a lot of things or a lot more things we don't know than we do know. it could wind up being something. and adam schiff is pretty far out there in saying that this is pinning it as a -- >> characterization of the urgency. >> the urgency. and so, you know, it's just strange. >> well, and it's early. i think this is a story that isn't quite a ripe tomato yet. but the substance aside, i think the process itself is reason enough for alarm. after 9/11 when all sorts of intelligence programs were kept secret from the public and former adversaries, congress briefed. it does represent an historic break between the intelligence community and congress. >> it does. it's hard to see the rationale for holding back an i.g. report from congress because the intelligence committee in both chambers is always briefed. sometimes it's for a publicly available information. sometimes it's a classified briefing. so if it's sensitive information, lawmakers are

dealing with classified information all of the time. if there is something urgent out there, i would urge this whistleblower to talk to the press before the state exists and there's no bureaucratic process with that. and you can always volunteer to testify before congress. >> can i press you on that? if it contains anything classified, do you doubt for a moment that this administration wouldn't prosecute someone for disclosing classified information? before he de-ems you on twitter. i just want to put the whole picture out there. >> congress deals with classified information. >> but that would seem to be a conundrum, right? >> understood and i'm just saying if they should go through congress, but the press is always there to any whistle-blower. >> and that's one of the things that congressman schiff argued is that it's important to hand this over because if that doesn't happen, then you run the risk of classified information kind of spilling out to the public through us. >> whistle-blowers want to

remain secret, understood. >> harry, let me give you the last word and let me put all this back on you. it would seem like this is the worst time in american history to be a whistle-blower. you've got a president perfectly willing to turn his doj into roy cone and associates. you've got a justice department perfectly happy to stick their hands way up into the making of an intelligence product by going in and looking at the intelligence stream as it pertains to russia in 2016. you've got an intelligence community where some of the honest brokers have been run out of their jobs, dni coats is gone. the president sort of churning through appointees at the nation's national security agencies. >> yeah. look, that's exactly right. we probably have one such honest broker who is the whistle-blower here given the program. but all of this is a common theme. inspectors general, whistle-blower protections, they all exist because we recognize that the executive can't be trusted to completely police its

own shop. and each and every one of these mechanisms as they are being used, the doj and the white house are trying to strangle to have no accountability at all. that's the broad mission here. >> all right. we're going to stay on this story. harry, litman, we are grateful to have you day. carol lee, thank you for spending some time with us. a brand-new book about brett kavanaugh has reigcited the political firestorm around allegations of sexual misconduct and the fbi investigation into those claims. that story next. those claims that story next.

the new report over the weekend has brought the fbi and supreme court justice brett kavanaugh back into the center of a political debate that is today consuming capitol hill and the 2020 candidates. washington post reports, quote, democratic presidential candidates on sunday demanded that supreme court justice brett kavanaugh be investigated or

impeached in response to a new allegation that he exposed himself to a female that new allegation detailed in a report over the weekend by "new york times," that also lays out concerns that the allegation wasn't fully investigated by the fbi in the background check that became central to cavanaugh's confirmation. a witness to the allegation, quote, notified senators and the fbi about this account, but the fbi did not investigate and mr. steyer has declined to discuss it publicly. president trump today on twitter seizing on a detail added to times reporting last night in an editor's note saying the alleged victim in the claim declined to be interviewed, friends say she does not recall the episode. concerns unrelated to that incident in "new york times" also raise questions about the adequacy of the fbi's background investigation into cavanaugh. a probe into another sexual abuse allegation raised by debra

ramirez may also have fallen short according to the times. miss ramirez's legal team gave the fbi a list of at least 25 individuals that may have had corroborating evidence. but they interviewed none of them. though we learned many of the potential witnesses tried in vain to reach the fbi on their own. two fbi agents interviewed miss ramirez, telling her they found her credible, but the republican controlled senate imposed strict limits on the investigation. quote, we have to wait to get authorization to do anything else, bill pittard one of her --

>> it was a sham. you're investigating multiple shaul sexual assaults. at the time, it is like give it a ten day investigation. ten days is all we need to determine whether or not an individual should have a job forever to determine the laws of the united states. that's just a reminder again of unfortunately why journalism is more protecting them -- >> because this administration is ignoring congress, basically one of the only outlets for a whistleblower is journalism. let me ask you, though, i saw na story sort of burst into flames again over the weekend with the usual partisan divides, trump believes it is a good story for him politically, saw democrats call for the third impeachment this year, trump, barr, kavanaugh.

any risk saying -- we tried. >> you can't call for impeachments and not have votes. that's frustrated people. if nancy pelosi won't call a vote, if she won't go after president trump, she's not going after brett kavanaugh. we lack the backbone in leadership in the democratic party to do something about it, and that i think is the most dangerous thing heading to 2020. a lot of voters out there are like i don't believe you, i don't believe you'll go through anything. k why fight for a party that doesn't fight for me. >> elizabeth warren was the first to call for trump's impeachment. that led to i wouldn't say a dam breaking, but it did break open calls on capitol hill.

nadler is busy i am impeaching trump, he is not i am impeaching kavanaugh. >> it is infuriating. elizabeth warren did this amazing, read part of the mueller report, and it broke it down, started it. to be fair, julian crass trastr then she put it on the map. when the kavanaugh hearing was happening, it was a sham, the fbi because of donald trump, it was a sham investigation, the republican hearing was a joke, but i remember thinking about voters. women really energized, right, and yes, the kavanaugh hearing probably did excite some trump voters in deep red states but it hurt trump in suburban house districts that gave the house two democrats, right? and so to jason's point, what are democrats going to do. voters purposefully gave you the house to hold this president

accountable because he's a run away train and you're not doing anything. there's no impeachment happening for anybody. they're just not moving forward in a way that voters can say okay, i know my vote mattered. >> let me follow-up about the question on women voters, it was women candidates that got ahead of this over the weekend, kamala harris and elizabeth warren. do you think this is something that we still process differently? jason aside, from the candidates, i don't know, this is a question, i honestly do not know the answer to this. is there anything, or was it the prosecutor in kamala harris, why were they out front? >> i think it is a bunch of things. we have to remember the women's march, that happened after donald trump, the day after his inauguration, that's where everything kind of -- the flood gates opened. that's when you started to hear from women. women got very involved, a lot of women decided to run for

office. so there's a clear voice that candidates are listening to, i don't think if you are the democratic neiman going into the general election, trying to beat trump, you're not going to win without a high volume of women coming out to vote. >> i didn't get enough of either of you. didn't get enough. i am dying now. i wish i had a podcast. we have to sneak in a last break. be right back. sneak in a last break. be right back. at fidelity, we believe your money should always be working harder. that's why your cash automatically goes into a money market fund

when you open a new account. just another reminder of the value you'll find at fidelity. open an account today.

of the value you'll find at fidelity. that's why with dell small business technology advisors. you'll get tailored product solutions, expert tech advice and one-on-one partnership. call an advisor today at 877-buy-dell. get up to 45% off on select computers. ♪ and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

this is the announcements part of the show. careen will be back tomorrow. two big interviews to tell you about. senator kamala harris weighs in

on the story we have been talking about, joins rachel maddow. and then he dedward snowden. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts now. if it is monday, locked and loaded on iran. what happens when the president threatens military action. and the world doesn't know if he can be taken seriously or literally. new calls to oust