optimism. so it's sort of in president trump's hand to turn things around, not just through the trade war and tariffs, but the way he's diplomatic sizing the other agencies like the federal reserve. i think they really are looking for him to change course, but obviously we know president trump will do whatever he sees fit. >> all right. live in washington, d.c., always a pleasure. thank you very much and of course we'll be reading axios am in a bit. you can go to sign-up.axios.com. >> "morning joe" starts right now. one thing we haven't mentioned it technology. they're wired so that we will know if somebody's trying to break through. you may want to discuss that. >> sir, there could be some error in not discussing that. >> okay, i like that. that was a great answer. >> that is president trump saying way too much about border security and speaking of loose lips, according to the "washington post," trump's

interaction with a foreign leader included a promise that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the u.s. intelligence community to file a former whistleblower complaint with the inspector general. >> who also said it was deeply troubling and then the justice department squelched it. at that point they're supposed to automatically get information over to congress and the oversight committees, but -- >> we'll talk to the reporter behind that. >> right now there's a cover-up. >> straight ahead. it is thursday, september nine teeth. along with joe, willie and wee we have economic analyst steve radnor. elise labott, and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. and there's just a little bit more of that border wall discussion, the president -- >> but wait, there's more. you can fry an egg on it.

>> you can, really, it's that hot. it was kind of disturbing, all most, to hear him sell this wall. >> let's hear a little bit more president trump speaking to the southern california border yesterday and you tell us what you think about your commander and chief. >> so you have the rebar, you have the outer crust and the inside is concrete and it's hardened concrete, very powerful concrete. again, the concrete's poured after it's up, they pour it through funnels and a lot of technological advancements have been made with concrete. if you think you're going to cut it with a blowtorch that doesn't work because you hit concrete. i said fellows, how about doing the less expensive version? they said this is the version that works. it's an anticlimb device if you look at the steel on top. we actually built prototypes and we have i guess you could say world class mountain climbers. this wall can't be climbed. it's very, very hard. we have climbers. we have 20 mountain climbers, that's all they do, they love to climb mountains.

they can have it. me, i don't want to climb mountains. plus it's designed to absorb eat. so it's extremely hot. you can fry an egg on that wall. if they're going climb it they're going to have to bring hopes and water, we don't know where they're going to hook it up because there's no water out here. fog over the wall is virtually impossible. i guess maybe one of the greatest pole vaulters in history can get over the low one but it's going to be very painful when they land, right? >> oh my god. >> but it's all so sick. >> let us just have a laugh right now. >> the entire studio is in his stairic hysterics. i'm sorry, i don't mean to be a wet blanket but that was ridiculous. >> i think it's just the obvious nature of your comments that -- >> true. >> -- that you keep repeating everything. >> it's just incredible. you can fry an egg on it.

>> so, willie. >> yes, joe. >> i did not know until now that there actually was a rolls royce of sheet metal. but this is the rolls royce of sheet metal. nor did i know that the president of the united states kept 20 mountain climbers who love cliexing mountains, that's all they love to do. >> they live for it. >> they live for climbing mountains, that he keeps 20 mountain climbers just on hand just in case. what other thing? it is laborious. >> this is obvious too but go ahead. >> it's laborious to bring out. but before donald trump was president of the united states, border crossings were at a half century low. you would have to go back to joey scarborough playing t ball with the doreville hawks.

>> good squad. >> good squad. i was about to tell you and i did the doreville hawks. you would have to go back 50 years to find a time when there were less border crossings before donald trump became president of the united states. and now with iran, and now with this ig report, and now with economists and the fed chair worried about a looming recession, with all the things going on across the world, you've got the president of the united states just doing a commercial for sheet metal down on the border. >> pole vaulters, mountain climbers, rolls royce of sheet metal, we're laughing not because it's funny, we're laughing because it's so absurd. the wall that you saw stacked up behind him may amount to the total amount of wall that's been put up since he promised it would go up. and as joe says, with everything going on the fact that he's

taking time, the president of the united states, and going down and still fanning this story that he started four years ago during the campaign, build that wall, build that wall, he has to keep that story going. and when he can keep it going for four years you start talking about things like mountain climbers and pole vaulters to make the case for something that's not happening. >> david ignatius, none of it's happened, that's certainly what fox news reported even last month that he hasn't built any walls. so now he's going down and in the words of john lennon, and nobody loves you when you're down and out, an appropriate title for the president right now, it's all show biz, that's really all it is. it's all show biz because if you even talk to his first secretary of homeland security, general kelly, he said, you know, physical structures, there are better investments we can make to keep people out of the country. you talk to lindsey graham and

john cornyn back when republicans actually had the power to fund the wall, they said, no, no, this isn't a smart investigate mechblt mon investment of money or time. there are a lot smarter ways to keep our borders secure and keep people out. and yet there he is, all display, show biz, to secure america's borders. >> i have looked at some of these new technologies that you put on virtual reality goggles and watch activity in the border areas, you watch, you know, where a cow was an hour ago, a day ago standing in for a human being. it's just crazy to be fixated. >> it is. >> on these -- you know, just how the good steel is and the rolls royce of this and that. it's not like there aren't other things going on in the world, folks. >> that's a great point. there's a lot going on this

morning. we'll get to the new information on the secret whistleblower complaint that the trump administration is refusing to hand over to congress. two former u.s. officials tell "the washington post" that it involves a promise that the president made to a foreign leader that was thought to be so troubling it prompted a u.s. intelligence official to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the intel community's inspector general. the post says, it is unclear which foreign leader the president was speaking with or what he promised. but nbc news has since learned from a former u.s. intelligence official that it involves a phone conversation. the entire ordeal is at the center of the latest battle between the trump administration and congress. after the acting director of national intelligence joseph mcguire overruled the inspector general's determination that the complaint was of urgent concern -- >> let's stop right there. elise, the inspector general of

the intel community said this was of, quote, urgent concern. that the president's conversation, his promise to a foreign leader was of, quote, urgent concern. the independent inspector general said that. and that congress should be made aware of this conversation that was of, i will say again, the word, quote, the phrase, urgent concern. >> and the acting attorney general, the acting head of the intelligence community, the dni doesn't think it's of such concern that needs to be taken a look at. i mean, this is not the first time that the president has had a terrible relationship with the intelligence community. he's disrespected the intelligence community. he's questioned their judgment. that was one of the reasons that led to the resignation of dni

dan coats. and he at every turn has done this. and i've spoken to officials, former officials in the intelligence community, current officials, it's not the first time that officials have had a real problem with some of the conversations when they read the readouts of this president. >> and david ignatius, the president of the united states in early 2017 had the foreign minister of russia who was sitting there smiling like a cheshire cat for a good reason and russia's embassy to the united stat ambassador to the united states listened to the president where he banned reporters of the united states but allowed russia to come in probably with listening devices and spilled intel to the russian foreign minister. this happens a good bit. in this case, this has good to the inspector general in this whistleblower case and he said it's of urgent concern, what the

president said to this foreign leader, what the president promised this foreign leader was of such foreign concern that congress and oversight committees had to know about it. and yet it's being killed. do you have any idea what the nature of the conversation was, david? >> joe, we're going so to have a moment one of our washington reporters who wrote a piece which is as much as we know according to this article this involves a promise that allegedly was made by president trump to some foreign national that was so worrisome to somebody in the against community became aware of it. it seems in early augustt they made a report to the inspector general, michael atkinson. that troubled atkinson so much that within a month later he reported that allegation, that ig issue that was of urgent

concern, to the head of the house intelligence committee schiff, adam schiff. so there are a couple things to focus on. what was it that was said that was taken as a promise that was so upsetting? i'll let shane go through the list of possibilities but they're the ones you'd think, putin, kim jong-un are the top of the list. what was it that made michael atkinson, the inspector general, so troubled that he felt he absolutely had a reporting obligation? and what happened to intervene to prevent discussion by joseph maguire, the acting director of national intelligence before the congressional committee? there are a series of questions and when you come to the end of that it looks to me as if the trump administration is deliberately seeking to undo the rules that have bounded u.s. intelligence activities basically since the watergate and the intelligence scandals in the '70s. it's a big deal. >> we're going to get to shane in one second.

elise. >> i think what david said is the key. why is the acting attorney -- acting dni stonewalling this? why doesn't he want to let this -- let congress know about this? that is the real key. what are they hiding? >> what are they covering up is the question. it is a cover-up. >> it is totally a cover-up. i think the obvious issues of intelligence and what went on between trump and this foreign leader are central to this. but so is the relationship between the white house and the congress of which this is yet just another example of the white house essentially refusing to follow normal procedures, law, separation of powers, and the rights of congress to know what's going on here. >> and the question is, what are the republicans thinking on the hill? are the republicans curious at all about the inspector general, an independent inspector general saying that what the president said was so deeply troubling that they need to be made aware of it? >> we won't hold our breath are will we, knowing what we know about republicans in congress? >> knowing that moscow mitch is

not even protecting american democracy from the kremlin, when republicans now, former conservatives like norquist are now coming out. the trumpists are coming out and saying you have to protect our democracy. and -- >> but put aside moscow mitch, where is lindsey graham? all of them. >> where is tom cotton? where are the people who say they're most focused on the integrity of the u.s.? >> in the middle of this whole issue with iran and saudi arabia and the president is asking the international community to trust the intelligence at the same time he's disregarding u.s. intelligence, this is really a key time for u.s. intelligence. >> all right. let's bring in shane harris of the "washington post." he covers intelligence and national security. as david said, he's one of the authors of this extraordinary piece. first of all, wow, even in the age of trump we can say wow because this is something we've not seen. let's talk about the possibilities here about who the president of the united states may have been talking to, who he

may have made this promise to. a lot of people looking at a july 31st phone call from the president to vladimir putin. as we look back on it, the readout from the white house that day was that president trump was calling to express concern and to offer help with siberian wildfires which even in realtime struck a lot of people as odd. again, we don't know what the call is, but what are the possibilities here? >> well, that certainly has to be probably near the list given the president's interactions with russian officials in the past and the divulging of sensitive and classified information. the president talked to a lot of foreign leaders. and i think one of the important things to key in on here is whoever made this complaint we reported previously is an intelligence community official who worked at the national security council. a lot of people get assigned over there for some time. and then made this complaint. and why i emphasize that is i don't think that you're probably talking about somebody who saw the president doing something that was not significant. these are usually fairly

experienced people, they're well versed in what the rules are. and by the way, people who would know that the president can divulge classified information to whomever he wants. and of course has done that before. so while we don't know precisely what this allegation centers on, i have to think it is something that's significant, as you pointed out, the inspector general thinks it's significant. and i think we have to think about the source, the person who would have seen this would have been aware of this would have well understood by this point president trump's proclivities with foreign leaders, his handling of classified information and yet still saw something here that he or she felt kneeled needed to go to this independent watchdog. >> the term is inspector general, that's not just his personal characterization, that's a legal threshold when something reaches urgent concern has to reach out to the intelligence communities and congress. what falls under that threshold sf wh ? what may he have seen or heard saying i have to push this to

congress now? >> the statute talks about flagrant abuse of power, illegal acts. >> illegal acts. >> there are lots of things that aren't illegal for the president that are illegal for other people. classified information sharing. >> can we make that point, because shane you made this point in the piece, i've heard other people make this point. it's important for people that are just waking up and listening, this is not about the president doing something wreck le and bragging. he can do that, but he has the ability to blurt out highly classified information. that would not meet this threshold of urgent concern in the is something actually worse, something that the ig suspected might be illegal which prompted the, quote, urgent concern. >> well, i don't think we know that the ig thought it might be illegal but think your deduction is right. this is is not something in the category of things we've seen

the president do. he tweeted a highly classified satellite image just a few weeks ago. we've seen those kinds of things. inspector generals are aware of those kinds of things and you're right, that isn't illegal, the president can do that. so what are he did or is alleged to have done here falls into some different category possibly in this statutory definition of flagrant abuse of power. enough so that the ig thought that congress needed to know about it. they don't know the substance of the allegation, by the way, that's very important. they know it happened but they are still in the dark about tli rest of us about the details. >> thank you shane so much. great reporting. david ignatius, let's go around the troubled middle east in three minutes. and let's start with israel right now. netanyahu breaking news overnight is going to try to form a government with his rival. a lot of people are very scent tick cal that he's going to be able to put that coalition

together. have we seen the end of benjamin netanyahu as israel's prime minister? >> it sure looked like it yesterday but he will struggle to put together this coalition. netanyahu has legal troubles in israel in addition to his manifold political troubles. i have a suspicion that the last-minute attempts by donald trump to boost netanyahu by offering him the prospect of a special u.s. defense treaty may actually have backfired reinforcing the impression that netanyahu is just too close to one ally. but we'll see. israeli coalition building historically is talk about trading of favors and particular deals for small parties. you ain't seen nothing yet. it's early to say. benny gantz, the other potential prime minister's solid, solid ex-military man and he's going to be the key king maker here. lieberman has been defense

minister, very strong with the russian jewish community in israel. israel's up in the air. what's really up in the air is whether the united states and saudi arabia are about to go to war with iran. >> yeah. >> in talking to u.s. military officials, it is clear to them that the attack last week on the saudi oil facilities that knocked out an estimated half of saudi arabia's production in exports, a serious major attack involving multiple munitions came directly from iran. they say there is absolutely no question. they've got the rockets and drones because it was combined munitions that landed. they looked at where they came from. they came from iran. that means this was a big escalation, joe. they didn't think iran two this, attacking their neighbor to the south oil installations basically saying we can't export oil you can't export oil.

>> right. >> so they weren't deterred. we had hoped that the iranians were kind of back in their box after various u.s. actions. they weren't. they took this radical step forward. i have some sympathy for trump's problem here. he was looking at aggression by iran which is significant, something has to be done. every gulf country's now vulnerable. but he does not want to go to war once ghoagain to protect sa arabia. so my own sense is that it is unlikely the u.s. will take military action in retaliation for this act of war unless saudi arabia in some way is a part of that action. >> all right. >> hold on. >> no, we have to go to break, there's no much going on. >> we have -- we have another question to ask. >> no, we don't. >> by wait, the way, if you wan know, david said maybe he was too close to another leader. if you want to know when your prime minister has beclowned himself and should probably just

go home, it's when the president of the united states attacks a certain morning show host and your prime minister retweets it. which is what netanyahu did. he retweeted an attack on "morning joe." >> oh my god, that's so lame. really? >> yes. >> that's really bad. i mean, we're cable news. >> you know it's bad when -- >> host. thank you, mika so much. i think you're right. tj, can you throw that up map of the mooeiddle east east? it's three dimensional and when it goes up it's almost like you're there. you just kneel it. you feel the heat. it's just right there. our graphics department up all night on that one. so anyway. >> it's a good map. >> it is a very good map. >> what? we have to go to break? >> so, elise, i read this article in the "new york times" yesterday.

i couldn't figure out why the iranians did what they did, like david, why would they escalate? because say what you want about the iranians? >> they're irrational. >> people don't like to hear that. there's a reason they have sustained since 1979. they are very rational, they are very conservative with a small "c," they know what they're doing. like this makes no sense. why would the iranian s do this? and there as an article yesterday saying they did it because they knew trump wouldn't respond. >> bingo. >> and they knew they would make him look even weaker and it would gain them even more negotiating power and make them look even tougher across the middle east. and what did we hear yesterday from donald trump? comments like hey, you know what? not striking back makes me look stronger. the iranians, again, proving their brilliant read him to be weak. >> or proving he's not -- >> and knew that he would not respond. >> someone in iran assumed that

trump is going to not respond, not only did he not do it in june, but last year when the iranian-backed maliilitias in r attacked. i think trump, from officials i i've spoken to, feels this is going to waeng his message on the election. iran is saying you're going to hit us of sanctions we're going to deprive you of that great economy before the election. they're trying to split up the uae. but i think the main thing here from officials i've spoken to is iran knows that trump is not going to respond and officials say that they want to look for a middle ground response. i don't -- >> right. >> middle ground, goldly lock response that answers the attack but at the same time doesn't escalate. it's going to be something along the lines of sending

capabilities to saudi arabia and reinforcing the u.s. president's scenario. >> sending a message to the saudi arabiaians and other allies that you're just not going to be able to count on donald trump. >> still ahead from iran's sanctions to israel's election to the u.n. general assembly, president trump is privy to the most detailed information the u.s. government has to offer. so what is the administration's specific game plan on those issues? s specific game plan on those issues . >> we'll see what happened. we'll see. you'll watch, we'll see what happens. [ inaudible question ] >> we'll see what happens. we'll see what happens. we'll see what happens. and we'll see. we'll see what happens. and we'll see what happens. >> got that loop going. all right. we'll get to the specifics of those stories just ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back and we'll see what happens. k and we'll see what happens. tremfya® helps adults with moderate

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. so you have the rebar, you have the outer crust and you have the inside is concrete. and it's hardened concrete. very powerful concrete. concrete's poured after its up. they pour it through funnels. a lot of technological advances have been made with concrete. so if you think you're going to cut it with a blowtorch that doesn't work because you hit concrete. i said fellows, how about doing the less expense skiff version? they said this is the version that works. it's the rolls royce version the protection on time, it's an anticlimb device if you look at the steel on top. we actually built prototypes and we i have guess you could say world class mountain climbers. this wall can't be climbed in the is very, very hard. we've got climbers. we had 20 mountain climbers that's all they do, they love to climb mountains. they can have it. me, i don't want to climb mountains. plus, it's designed to absorb heat so it's extremely hot. you can fry an egg on that wall. so if they're going to climb it

they're going to have to bring hoses and water and we don't know where they're going to hook it up because there's not a lot of water out here. nobody's going over the wall, but going over it is impossible. is virtually impossible. i guess maybe one of the greatest pole vaultners history can get over the low one, but it's going to be very painful when they land, right? >> oh my god. >> i can go through the checklist again in the rolls royce of sheet metal. we have climbers, mountain climbers. >> no we don't. >> some of the best mountain climbers in the world. >> my gut is we don't actual. >> i you know what else he has, waters, hoses and waters and you can fry an egg on that. >> it's vintage trump but it's also mean anding you. >> i if you call right now you get this set of steak knives. >> well, trump steaks, remember those? >> you can't cut through the metal but may be able to get you halfway through. >> so far under trump the u.s.

has replaced 66 miles of fencing, including nine miles of renovated fencing. but the administration has yet to extend the border wall. >> wait, what do you mean? >> there's no new wall? >> he hasn't built -- i mean, i heard she smith ap smith say th hasn't built one new mile of wall. what's only been fixing barack obama's wall? >> that's correct. >> okay. >> so there are 654 miles of border wall in the u.s. according to customs and border protection. it's the same number of miles that existed at the start of president trump's term. >> so, willie, does this mean that -- it was already there. >> -- he actually has not expanded the wall one mile? >> no, he's done some light renovation is what he's done. >> like what he does when he takes over a building and puts his name on it. >> just dusts it up. maybe he's sent out people to

dust the wall or something. >> sure. >> i can ask you -- >> climbers. >> he said he was going to build that wall and mexico was going to pay for it. but what you're saying is that he hasn't extended the wall by one foot. >> it's not just me saying, it joe, it's u.s. customs and border protection. >> so the trump administration is saying it? >> that's correct. >> so what you're saying is that donald trump's own administration is saying he has not expanded the wall. let me ask you this, though. didn't the republicans i can't remember well, i was following baseball in 16 and 17 and 18. >> and nine zble19. >> didn't the republicans control congress and the white house? >> sure did. >> in '17 and '18? >> they sure did. >> and he didn't extend the wall one foot? plain this to explain this to me like i'm a fourth grader. they controlled congress, they

controlled the white house and donald trump's own administration is saying they didn't extend the wall one foot? >> couldn't get money for it. >> wow. >> it's almost like the entire thing has been a farce from the first time he mentioned it on the campaign trail in 2015. >> i can't believe it. >> just a retor cal devihetoric? >> yes. originally we thought the farce was mexico was going to pay for it. >> that was a farce. >> it turns out that the wall was going to be constructed at all. remember when donald trump then during the 2016 campaign he made that promise that mexico would pay for the wall? president trump claimed mexico was paying with its decision to police the border with soldiers. >> well, they're paying for 27,000 soldiers, as you know. and i am so -- we're all thrilled, you know, mexico has never done anything to impede people from pouring into our country. if i took 5%, 5% tariff for six months be, that pays for the

entire wall. >> for the record, mexico deployed 15,000 soldiers to the u.s./mexican border this summer, not 27,000, he made that number up. the pentagon said this month it would use $3.6 billion in military construction funding to build the wall, again, stealing from other military projects to pay for a wall that has not yet been built. >> stealing from other military projects while we have a real showdown in the middle east right now. >> and puerto rico. >> yeah. he's taking from lots of important base renovations and things like that. but also he had i think it was a 1.6 or a couple billion dollars from a couple years ago that was appropriated for the wall that they don't seem to spent. so they don't seem to be capable when they have the money of going out there and building the wall. >> david, all this talk -- all this talk of the wall while we are in a kriecrisis with the mi east and with leaders from the middle east telling me that if

the united states doesn't figure out a proportionate response to iran's attacks that no one will respect america again. >> well, it doesn't seem like the iranians are really intimidated by all this wall footage. you'd have to say, joe, the man knows his concrete, though. that was an impressive display of concrete knowledge. >> he knows his concrete. and he always did tell anybody who asked, willie, that if you wanted to know who laid the best concrete, it was the mob. he said they could do a floor and a skyscraper faster than anybody else. >> to be clear, no evidence the mob's involved with the border wall construction here. >> no, no, i'm just saying. and no evidence that he was involved in trump's hotels, though trump constantly bragged to people that the mob could lay cement on floors faster than anybody else. >> and, by the way, the reason we're spending so much time on

this absurdity that we saw yesterday, is because it lays bear the lie that he's been telling for four years about a wall. and it was the entire thrust of his campaign from the moment he came down the escalator, i'm going to stop these bad rapists, drug dealers and immigrants from coming across the border and i'm going to do it by pibuilding a g beautiful wall. he's not yet built the wall. >> but he's talking about it because there's another election coming. >> of course. >> and he wants to appeal to those same people, look at my concrete, look at my steel, look at what i'm doing. >> what is so sad is that many of those very same people believe that he has built the wall. that when he lies and says that we're building the wall and we've made advances, they believe that lie, despite the fact that the trump administration them self says they haven't built an additional foot of walling. the trump administration itself

says they haven't built an additional foot of wall themselves. >> and while all this was happening, this incredible display at the border, his former national security adviser was trashing him for a number of really serious misstepped in foreign policy. >> and -- >> the utter stupidity. >> and former trump supporters were applauding john bolton, including the mersers saying he was the best national security advisers america could ever hope for. very interesting. >> there we go. >> makes your head spin. >> it is a head spinning morning. >> makes you wonder why they hired him in the first place. they both knew who each other were when they came. >> this always ends badly with trump. coming up, one new poll shows joe biden hitting a new low in the democratic primary race. we'll dig into those numbers. plus, mayor pete buttigieg has just unveiled a healthcare plan that he hopes will separate himself from the other 2020

candidates. we'll have a look at his brand-new proposal next on "morning joe." his brand-new proposal next on "morning joe." i'm your cat. ever since you brought me home, that day. i've been plotting to destroy you. sizing you up... calculating your every move. you think this is love? this is a billion years of tiger dna just ready to pounce. and if you have the wrong home insurance coverage, you could be coughing up the cash for this. so get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like me-ow.

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a new fox news poll has joe biden at 29% down two points since last month. it is biden's lowest level of support among democratic primary voters in a fox fuzz poll since may. bernie sanders got an eight-point jump placing him ahead of senator warren. warren fell four points since august to 16% putting her in third place. meanwhile, in 2020 matchups against president trump, biden, sanders, warren all are ahead. >> well, they crush him. >> biden has the largest advantage over trump, but 14 points if the election were held today. >> that's not even close. that's 14 points. could we go back to the democratic poll, though for a second? there's a lot of people shaking their heads. bernie had the weakest performance i've ever seen him have in a debate last week. he was screaming from beginning to end louder than usual, was hoarse. was just off. i'm not sure where the plus

eight came from since august. also, i think everybody else is surprised that elizabeth warren after yet another great debate performance, willie, would be down four points. that is completely different than the poll we showed just a few days ago. and, again, polls are just snapshots, but i think most every other poll i've seen has elizabeth warren and joe biden both fighting for the top spot. >> i think we all shrugged a little bit when we saw that just because it runs so counter to all the other, not just one poll but all the other polling which shows elizabeth warren surging up, joe biden holding steady which shows in this poll as well, and also bernie sanders coming back down to earth a little bit. so i don't know. we'll see what the next polls look like. but, contract rine is careen, joe biden is down two points in that poll, but think if you looked at that time in a vacuum and you're joe biden's campaign, despite shaky debate

performances he's still up 11 points even in that poll. >> that's right. who knows, that poll could very much be an outlier because it seemed a bit adjust kind of the results of the top three there especially after the debate performance we saw last week. but i think it's a reminder that we are still a long way away, right? we're a long way away from this election being decided. and it's not about national polls, the cry maers, it's about the state by state primaries. that's how we're going decide who's going to be the nominee, democratic nominee or how voters are going decide. and also like we have to remember after iowa and new hampshire results, we see national polls practically turn and change overnight. i think that's what we need to kind of remember and keep in the back of our minds. but, look, at the end of the day what we see, what we are seeing is that these three, the top three are the top three. and they're solidifying in their own different way. and think that's what we're seeing more and more coming out

of these national polls. >> and, you know, willie, you remember back in 2003 just following up on what was said, we are a lopping way off. remember howard dean's speech in new york city? >> yeah. >> back in the summer of 2003? it was massive. and people were declaring howard. >> that's right. >> the next democratic nominee because he had -- again, looked a lot like -- almost identical to what we saw elizabeth warren's event looked like. a long way to go. you've got translate that into campaign workers, into door knockers, into votes. >> and the truth is the dynamic of this race may not change until there are votes in iowa. and that's five months away where we presume that joe biden is the front runner. we had an iowa poll yesterday that showed him tied with elizabeth warren in the state of iowa. let's say for example the polls like that show nationally, him with a double digit lead, but she spins it in iowa and wins

there, all of the sudden it's a totally new race because those voters in south carolina who say today they will support joe biden may look at warren as a viable candidate and see a new weakness in joe biden. we'll look at the polls and follow the race closely as it bumps along the next few months. but the votes come in in iowa in five months. >> i think the nbc news poll showed that only 9% of democrats feel strongly about the person that they have selected. >> they still don't know. that good news for everybody. >> the ten democrats still haven't made up their mind and somebody could still jump into the race, you another know. >> that's possible, i think probably less likely to the your point about howard dean in 2003, i remember in december of 2003 john kerry calling me from iowa where he was literally going door to door to beg me to see if i could find someone to give him another $2,000 to get him through iowa. of course, a month later he ended up doing very well there. it can change a lot. the other interesting thing to

know the in the nbc poll is elizabeth warren was the second chase. if you add her first choice and second choice she actually is the floolead. >> when mike barnicle was here last week were we were talking there's so much emphasis put on polls. but when you see this many people early in the race coming out for elizabeth warren in new york city -- >> it's amazing. >> -- you have to look at what's happening on the ground talking to the people. >> the only thing i would say about that is bernie had more than that in 60? >> 2016 and he still lost. it's an important point but he still lost. >> i just think polls don't always show what's happening on the ground. >> i wonder what your reaction was to this when i tlaed joe kennedy was running against ed markey, i sat there and was like why? and it's almost like, i don't know, i've always felt like

anybody that wants to run and get ahead, that's fine. but in the year of donald trump, every dollar that is spent on that primary will be a dollar not spent on trying to defeat donald trump. every dollar spent on that primary will be a dollar that will not be available to defeat mitch mcconnell. every dollar spent in that primary will be a dollar spent and not maintaining the democrats very tenuous hold on controlling the house of representatives. why now does joe kennedy decide he wants to take out one of the most progressive, one of the most respected democratic voices in the senate who matches his constituents in massachusetts? >> i'm with you with that on that one, joe. it doesn't make sense to me. markey, as you just said, is a good senator.

he has a prozbrgressive record. i'm not sure why you would go after markey. i think clearly kennedy has ambition and he wants to move up, he wants to be a u.s. senator. but like you said, in the time of trump, this is not the time do this, especially when you're talking about a senator, an incumbent senator like markey who has, like you said, a very strong record. so it seems -- it seems out of touch to me for sure. >> we have democrats running in states picking senate fights they shouldn't pick and we have democrats sitting on the bench in other states where they need to get involved. >> or running for president. >> or running for president because mitch mcconnell and donald trump, if they control the senate and win, will shape the judiciary for the next 50 years. they're already shaping it for the next generation. i mean, democrats have to start getting responsible. people in these presidential

polls that are sitting at 0%, 0%, when they could get elected senator in their home states, in red states. >> and make a huge zblirchs and they' difference. >> and they're not moving. mayor pete buttigieg is unveiling his healthcare plan this morning. joining us now with the details is national political reporter for nbc news josh. josh, what'd you got. >> so, mika, what pete buttigieg is proposing for his healthcare plan is a midway point between the status quo, obamacare, and a full-on government-run healthcare. and he thinks that a big part of this is about trying to remind voters that this is not just a three-way contest of ideas between bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, and joe biden. that he has some ideas too. his theory is that by introducing a medicare public option for folks without imposing it across the board that it will eventually over

time become so popular that through natural competition it will drive some of these insurance companies out of business. and when i spoke to pete buttigieg about his plan last night, he was pretty critical of some of those front runners, particularly elizabeth warren. >> in what way? >> he suggested their plan to get rid of the private insurance and put everyone on medicare was commanding americans to abandon the courage they had and he actually told us that he thinks that's inconsistent with america's commitment to freedom. so you see him trying to sharpen the knives a little bit as he tries to break into that top tier. >> what do you think? >> well, my question to josh is what's the difference here, i was reading a little bit about it. what's the difference between his plan and harris's -- senator harris's plan? it seems very similar. who makes this plan stand out? >> yeah. a lot of the candidates here are really grasping for ways to

distinguish their plans that essentially look all of the democrats are saying we need to make our healthcare system more progressive and we need to have a government option. there are some fine details that differentiate his plan from kamala harris's as far as how subsidies are provided, how people are enrolled, whether it's automatic enrollment in this new plan or something you have to on the into. but i think what you're getting at accurately is on the surface of this a lot of these plans are more alike than they're dissimilar. >> i think what the key point here is, is that you're seeing increasing number of the candidates in this race pushing back on the idea of medicare for all. and if you watch the last debate it was happening there and it's happening again with buttigieg coming out. and then are essentially very similar. but what they're trying to do is maintain private insurance. there are 160 million americans who get their insurance from their employer. and contrary to what elizabeth warren said at the last debate, most of them are actually quite happy with it. this is another variation.

but the good news for the democrats is you now have an increasing number of democratic presidential candidates who are signing up for medicare if you want it. >> and mayor pete was critical of senator warren on the stage debate the other night. so, josh, let me ask you then, seems to me the million dollars question and some people think could be a lethal one for elizabeth warren if she becomes the nominee and that's the idea of taking away private insurance. s a read through mayor pete's plan, it says it will move millions of americans to government-run healthcare without imposing it on americans all at once. does that mean eventually all americans will be moved off private insurance into the government program? >> that's his theory of the case. and i asked him, look, if you're sitting in the "c" suite of cigna, blue cross blue shield reading this plan, are you basically riding death plan for your industry? and he says well, no, you look at other countries where private insurance augustments the

covera augments the coverage that you get. and he says if those insurance companies just compete well enough with this public plan, there won't be any need for them to go out of business. but if you follow the pra joekt ject tori of what he's predicting, does it does basically move most if all not americans into some government-run insurance. >> but it doesn't force them off, is that the distinction he's making? >> that's right. that's what makes this more moderate than some of the liberal candidates. he's trying to focus on choice, not infringe okay people's freedom to make that decision voluntarily. >> all right. thank you both. coming up, james mattis said owed the trump administration a duty of silence. >> john bolton not so much. >> a little bit different actually. we're going to get david ignatius' take on those new comments he made yesterday about the president. plus, in a few hours the house intelligence committee will meet with a key figure in

the battle over that whistleblower complaint that the trump administration is fighting to keep under wraps. we'll talk to a member of that committee democrat jim himes. and the ap's jonathan lemire joins us with his new reporting that posted overnight on trump's hesitation to engage in foreign conflict despite all the bluster. also, we will be talking about the latest scandal from virginia's prime minister. >> yeah. and we'll see what happens. >> we'll be right back. >> trudeau, yeah. we call it the mother standard of care.

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everybody knew it was going to be very close and we'll see what happens. and, look, our relationship is with israel. we'll see what happens. >> oh my gosh. >> that was quick. i mean, they were just good friends. >> already overby b bebe.

>> i wonder with bebe wishes he hadn't retweeted an attack on -- >> why he would even -- >> i thought it was a show of strength. the israeli prime minister retweeting. >> could you imagine israel retweeting. >> an attack. >> on a cable news show. >> that's lame. >> that's deeply sad. >> that's really small. okay. so still with joe, willie and me we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. elise labott. columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius. and joining the conversation, white house reporter for "the associated press," jonathan lemire. >> jonathan lemire, let's talk quickly about the red sox and the humiliation last night. there's this growing buzz that they're going to blow up the team, sell everybody except for xander and devers. and this from a team that should

still in the hunt if dombrowski picked up two relievers at trade time. we could have competed this year and now they're going to add insult to injury by blowing up the entire team. the constitutistupidity of that unforgivable. i can't believe boston fans who are usually meek and mild would say things like that. >> sure. >> by the way, you'll have to talk to willie at some point about your chance meeting with derek jeert, bter, but go ahead >> this is a team that won 108 games last year, won't world series, certainly has a big payroll and that's fine and they were hit with injuries this year, that happens too. but there was a front office that never helped the bull pen either in the spring or at the trade deadline and now the core of this team should still be together next year and there's talk of letting j.d. martinez go, talk of trading mookie betts if they can't come to a deal with a contract extension where because of luxury tax concerns for an ownership group that makes a mint, not just with the

red sox but with liverpool. and yet this is where we are right now. i think there would be blootd in the of blood in the streets in boston. >> they're talking about trading mookie betts. >> they talking about blowing the entire team up. they left their top relievers go last year and did nothing to fill them and then shocked that they weren't doing well and then at trading deadline they didn't pick up a reliever. and now because of that, they're going to add insult to injury, going add a third mistake to the second mistake to the first mistake by blowing up the team. >> we're 11 months since a ticker tape parade in boston and you're like, god, the world is coming to an end. >> this is what happens, the sky is falling. >> yankees, quickly, one game away from clinching? >> yeah, they should clinch -- >> can we talk about "star wars" now? >> we worry about the pitching and offense. >> i coach a fall baseball team,

every kid i don't know -- and the league picked this year. we didn't usually draft, it's usually backroom smoke in front of 10 and 11-year-olds. all of my kids, i don't know how it happens, they're all yankee fans. they all come to practice with yankee caps. that's terrible. >> it's terrible. >> there's lots a lot to love. >> okay, let's get to -- >> i tell them they get a hit i tell them that's a mookie swing right there. >> seriously, let's get to the new ofti new information to the whistle bla blower complaint that the trump administration is refusing to hand over to congress two former u.s. officials tell "the washington post" that it involves a promise the president made tie foreio a foreign leade was thought to be so troubling it prompted a u.s. intelligence official to file a former

whistleblower complaint with the intel community's inspector general. the post says it is unclear which foreign leader the president was speaking with or what he promised. but nbc news has since learned from a former u.s. intelligence official that an it involves a phone conversation. the entire ordeal is at the center of the latest battle between the trump administration and congress after the acting director of national intelligence joseph maguire overruled the inspector general's determination that the complaint was of urgent concern. thus, preventing it from being turned over to congress as required by law. the chairman of the house intel committee adam schiff accuses the trump administration of illegally withholding the complaint which he has since subpoenaed to protect the presiden president. maguire's office argues that it's acting legally. schiff argued last night that the inspector general has agreed to meet with his committee

behind closed doors this morning at 9:00 a.m. we are told the acting spy chief has agreed to testify in open session one week from today. the white house did not respond to a request for comment. >> what's happening, jonathan lemire? >> it's a significant story. we've known for weeks now that there was a whistleblower complaint. they didn't know who the person involved was. we have since now thanks to reporting from the washington post was the president itself. the issue is what was promised and who was it promised to? looking at the calendar, the complaint was filed on august 12th. july 31st the president had a phone call with vladimir putin. that is obviously going to be one moment that is going to be looked at very carefully. he's had other interactions with other foreign leaders during that stretch, hosting some at the white house, others making phone calls. but this is now a real sharp divide between the white house and the intelligence community. and it's not the first time that the president, of course, has run afoul of guidelines and restrictions about handing out classified information.

president can talk about something, can he declassify it. >> right. >> but let's remember ha happened in the may of 2017, the day after he ousted james comey he revealed classified information in the oval office which led to a real strain on u.s.'s relationships with foreign -- other foreign friendly intelligence agencies. >> right. because he gave away information that a foreign intel agency had given to him. but david ignatius, it bears repeating this hour just like last, that this troubling information that the ig found and that was uncovered, it's even worse than handing secrets out to the russians inside the oval office because the president is legally entitled to do that. >> so in this case, joe, the inspector general michael atkinson concluded that had he an urgent concern following this whistleblower's complaint that

required him under law to pass that forward to his boss and then under reporting rules it was sent to the congressional intelligence committees in september. we don't know the details obviously, but we do know the concern that these officials had. one thing that worries me is that relations are so poison us in between the intelligence community and trump's inner circle, trump will view this as somebody on his nsc ratting him out. and however bad it was before this, it will get worse. and i mention that because around the world our key intelligence partners are looking at this sometimes circus-like atmosphere and wondering what is going on with our intelligence partners? that's the moment in which we really begin to have problems, when people say i just don't feel comfortable sharing our most important secrets with a

country where you have this kind of battling. >> yeah. >> politicization by the president, arguments about improper disclosure. i think that's what's at the bottom of this. >> one of the many consequences that we're going to be confronting. we're going to be speaking with a member of the intelligence committee in a few minutes so we'll continue this conversation. obviously there's a lot more to talk about with that. but now let's talk about the recently ousted national security adviser, john bolton who criticized president trump during i had private luncheon in new york city yesterday. the person who attended the event tells nbc news that bolton slammed the president's willingness to meet with the taliban and his handling of both iran and north korea. according to that person, bolton never mentioned trump by name, but it was clear he was making references to the president and his policies. at the luncheon, bolton said that the president's plan to meet with the tal ap at camp

david sent a terrible signal and was disrespectful to the victims of the september 11th attacks. bolton also argued that the administration's failure to respond militarily to iran striking an unmanned u.s. drone earlier this year set the stage for iran's alleged roll e in an attack on saudi arabia over the week. the person who attend the luncheon says bolton also belittled the president's willingness to meet with the leaders of north korea and iran saying any negotiations with those countries are quote, doomed to failure. bolton's comments at the luncheon were first reported by "politico." here's how president trump responded to bolton's criticism yesterday. >> john was not able to work with anybody and a lot of people disagreed with his ideas. and a lot of people were very critical that i brought him on in the first place because of the fact that he was so in favor of going into the middle east. guys like bolton and others wanted to go into iraq and that

didn't work out too well, all right. that didn't work out too well about the that was a horrible idea. and i put him in any way. and, frankly, everybody knows if you move wrong he wants to, you know, he doesn't realize that you get stuck, you get stuck. and they got stuck. and i'm unsticking it. >> okay. that of course is the president who at times supported the invasion of iraq as well. said it would be good for the stock market. >> elise, bolton is not going to hold back and there is the successor robert o'brien, talk about both. >> bolton is just saying to a luncheon in private what he's been saying to the president and what he's been leaking this whole time, there's no surprise. and the president said, you know, john never agreed with me on any of these policies. why did he appoint him anyway? john has always -- bolton has always been tough on iraq, tough on north korea, not wanting to see -- >> by the way, tough on russia? >> tough on russia.

>> nobody's been harsher on vladimir putin. >> ironically robert o'brien is not a dove. he worked for john bolton. bolton gave a blush in hrb in h. >> what did it is a, we will invade iran? >> it was called while america was sleeping. this book was very critical of weakness and retreat and appeasement. and i think this guy clearly is very close to pompeo, robert o'brien. he does have some foreign policy experience, a lawyer by trade but has worked in afghanistan judicial areas. he worked at the u.n. under bolton. but he is very hawkish on some of these and he's going to be close to pompeo. this really leaves a clear line for pompeo to have more influence really be the only adviser to president trump. >> jonathan lemire, this is the first time we're hearing from the inside from someone who -- i mean, because -- i'm trying to think if anyone has ever given a

sense of the chaos that is happening. we get reported conversations from people, sources that we talk to. but to have john bolton trashing the president, i mean, what a couple weeks ago he was the national security adviser. >> john bolton is not going quietly into the night, that is clear. i think this will be the first of a number of event like this and we want to anticipate at some point he's going to write a book. >> this week he's giving a speech this coming week on iran at a summit on iran nuclear activities in new york right when the president is here. >> while he's here for the united nations assembly. you're right about this. also reinforces pompeo's authority here. he was a big supporter of o'brien. this didn't happen without pompeo's blessing. but this is what we're seeing public now and what has been happening behind the scenes throughout. the president and john bolton never saw eye to eye on foreign policy. bolton is more hawkish on a number of the world's global hot spots. and he did belittle, he's belittle, he urged the president not to host the taliban at tamp david. he urged the president not to meet with the iranian leader

which had been in the works for the u.n. next week and now seems to be in doubt. and throughout he urged him not to meet with kim jong-un of north korea, including when the two men met at the dmz and the president stepped into north korea the first time, john bolton at that moment was in mongolia. he couldn't have been further -- >> another hot spot. >> yes. the very country that is the definition for being distant. >> yeah. >> because did he nt want to be any part of that moment. so i think we have the president here now, i mean, o'brien does share some of bolton's views. it will be interesting to see if he can nudge him in a more diplomatic way than bolton which usually ended up in screaming batches in the oval office on a daily basis. but there are no guardrails here. what he's going to want to do he's going to do there are very few adults in the room that can push back. >> ow interesting there is the beginning in john bolton's argument of a drawing of parallel between donald trump's weakness and that of barack obama's. of course, john bolton and even

donald trump attacked barack obama for drawing a red line and then doing nothing about it when syria crossed that red line. now you have john bolton in a speech yesterday telling some conservative supporters who used to support donald trump that, you know what? the iranians attack the saudi oil fields but only after they were able to shoot down a u.s. drone and the president was too weak and fekless to spont respo that. >> this is a theme that you've been hearing whispered for the last several weeks, that when the president decided against military list of options to strike after the u.s. surveillance drone was downed in zwrul u jul july, he essentially ended any

deterrence for iran and in that sense opened the way for the more provocative actions that the iranians just took striking at the heart of the saudi oil industry in a way that i think the financial markets are only beginning to react to. one of the things i was hearing yesterday doing some reporting on this was that in the financial world this is a sign that iran now can attack any gulf country. it can attack kuwait, saudi, obviously. they can attack the uae and is so he 50 waited enouso he indic go after huge players. i think the markets are going absorb this. we have a long period of higher oil prices probably. and, you know, as part of what bolton was talking about, just a final point about o'brien's appointment. you know, o'brien's a nice guy, doesn't have a mustache. trump must like that. but, you know, he, in effect,

this confirms what we really ought to know. which is donald trump is his own national security adviser. he does what he wants. >> that's right. >> that's what we saw, you know, increasingly during the bolton period is trump just ignored him. final point, the prime minister of the united states right now is mike pompeo. the secretary defense esper one of bolton's closest friends. and o'brien worked closely with pompeo at state. so pompeo really is the person with influence on the president. >> and actually remember the president lapt last week in the oval office said outloud what david just characterized. said it's great to work in my national security cabinet, he said you don't have to do any work. i make all the decisions. imagine being a national security adviser coming in and trying to have your world view and knowing it doesn't matter. >> which explains an awful lot. what happened that david touched on you have over the past decade, sunni arabs have been

more concerned about the expansion of iran throughout the middle east than they have israel. >> that's right. >> it's been this interesting shift where they actually have seen in many ways israel as an ally to counterbalance iran. now this morning, again, i've already heard from a leader from the middle east, they're saying just what david said. if donald trump does not stand by saudi arabia and respond to this attack, they know they could be next and that they can't trust the united states. >> that's right. and if you look at what's shaping up with this u.s. peace plan, the u.s. is really expecting the palestinians to say, no thanks. that kind of leaves israel and the arabs to say, okay, we tried and they can work together on the real existential threat. middle east peace is about arab peace. but david is spot on about the challenges to the middle east. but this is much wider about

u.s. leadership in the world. and you have to think that japan, south korea are looking at what happens right now and saying, if the gulf allies can't rely on the u.s., what if north korea attacks us? and so diplomats i've spoken to since this whole crisis erupted are saying they're really looking for the u.s. to lead right now. they want something along the lines of what baker and -- and h.w. bush did during the iraq war. go out, lay out, and have a coalition. problem is, u.s. doesn't have that many friends right now. >> and what's so frightening is that, you know, the financial times wrote about it last week, that the incoming new leaders of the eu have said we're going to start looking towards china because we can't count on the united states. donald trump's engaging in trade wars, so we'll look east. and there is this feeling in the

trump administration, i don't know if pompeo has it or not, that this is 1999, that unilaterally -- that the united states can make unilateral decisions and everybody's going to have to follow us. they just don't anymore. they can look to china, they can look to russia if the united states continues to retreat and cower in the corner as we are right now. let's talk about the rate cut that was about three weeks that donald trump called the fed chairman the enemy of the united states for suggesting the trade wars may not be easy, the trade wars may actually be hurting the global economy, which of course they are, especially manufacturing. creating in the united states of america right now a recession for manufacturing that's really impacting michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. was the fed cut yesterday in response to donald trump's pressure or was it in response to the pressure that's being caused by donald trump's policies that's causing a global slowdown in the economy? >> i hope, and i believe it was

the latter. we don't want to see -- nobody should want to see the fed ever capitulate to a president on anything. the independence of the fed is really one of the strengths of our financial system and of our economy. so i'm hope hoping it's the second. the second is bad. 18 months ago the imf said that the world was in a period of great sustained global growth and most recently they just cut the global forecast for economic growth, including in the united states. and essentially you put, i don't know, 75% of it on trump to and his trade war and some of it on brexit and what boris johnson is doing. but trump, this is a self-inflicted wound. it's counter to his own there's running again. >> you get the sense that donald trump thought the chinese were going to back down. xi doesn't have to run for re-election next year. >> exactly right. >> he can do whatever he wants and the chinese, again, they said you know what? we're just going to wait him

out. we're just going to, like, push him, pressure him into the corner and we know that he's a day trader and he's going to capitulate to it. >> well, so much for trump he doesn't really understand any history. this is what the chinese have been doing for decades. they've essentially been smiling saying we're going to open up and do this and do that and then they operate as complete her can tiles in their own interests. and trump didn't really understand what he was up against. so it's -- it's a terrible situation. >> what's the famous quote about the chinese where they ask was it ping they asked him about the french revolution and what he he thought about it? he said too early to tell. that's how the chinese think. >> and we'll see what happens. still ahead on "morning joe," mike pompeo. >> i have a question for you but we'll wait till next block. >> that's right. mike pompeo calls the attacks on saudi oil facilities an act of war. >> okay. >> is congress ready to say the same? we'll bring back our handy map.

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character from alladin he says. it's not the first time he wore racially insensitive costumes. speaking to reporters he admitted he's been more enthusiastic about costumes. >> okay. but i'm just concerned -- >> he has always -- >> i have a lot of questions. >> hold on, there's more. that he also wore dark makeup in high school while chan leling harry bell fonty performing dayio. >> who are those women in the picture and what's with the hand on the neck -- >> blah, blah, blah. >> i don't want to see the picture again. >> this is justin trudeau talking last night. let's watch this. >> i take responsibility for my decision to do that. i shouldn't have done it. i should have known better. it was something that i didn't think was racist at the time but now i recognize it was something racist to do. and i am deeply sorry. i have worked all my life to try

and create opportunities for people, to fight against racism and intolerance. and i can just stand here and say that i made a mistake when i was younger and i wish i hadn't. i should have known better then, but i didn't and i did it and i am deeply sorry for it. >> he was 29 then, it's 2001. i'm glad he took personal responsibility for it. >> how hard is it not to do things like that? as willie said, he went all in. >> you asked a good question. how hard is it to refrain from putting shoe polish on your face? i don't get this. >> even as a costume enthusiast, there are certain lines. but if you're that in costumes, you should know where the lines are, right? >> exactly. i went to spain and everyone was wearing all of those flowy robes and dish dash and everything. you don't go the final -- >> you don't. >> you don't.

you just don't. >> willie, he went all in on this, okay. >> he's a teacher and who are these ladies? i mean, is that -- >> maybe fellow teachers? >> that might be a fellow teacher, might be a girlfriend. >> it's a weird grip. >> arabs don't even look like that. >> i was going to say. >> i don't get it. >> if he's a costume enthusiast, that's not -- >> that's not that enthusiastic. >> jonathan, not a good job. that is really, really serious. and i think it's going to -- >> he's in a tough election. >> that's problematic. >> he's -- he's -- >> that's problematic. >> it ain't going to be like democrats in virginia. i think he's going to have a hard time getting re-elected. >> this will be harder for exactly that reason. the democrats of virginia weren't facing voters in a matter of weeks. the prime minister here is. he's facing a tough election and this is going to be something that officibviously dogs him go forward. >> how hard is it to not do

that? by the way, if all this was going on in virginia several months ago, does anybody ever think ahead and say, oh, gosh, like he said did he this several times. do you not think ahead and let people know, get ahead of it and say i screwed up? >> don't forget. >> it's definitely a bad day when we're cataloging all the times you've worn black face. that's what the prime minister of canada was doing yesterday. >> wow. joining us now, member of the house intelligence committee democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. in about 90 minutes, the committee is expected to meet behind closed doors with the against community's inspector general about that whistleblower complaint. >> jim were wi, would you like about that or justin trudeau? >> i'm glad i'm not getting pulled in on justin trudeau, thank you for that. >> that's a no on justin trudeau. what are you hoping to find out in the hearing and are there any questions that you want on't bee

to get the answers you need? >> there are two things we need to know. we need to know the substance of what this bhwhistleblower complaint is. there's reporting that this may involve the president making a promise to a foreign leader maybe on a phone call. had is not something i know about from my job here, it's what i read in the newspaper. never a comfortable moment for a heaven congress. member of congress. we need to know what happened there. who knows. the second thing of course we need to reestablish, this is part of a larger theme, is that the dni, the acting dni broke the law when he decided to basically intercept the inspector general's report to congress. never been done before in the history of inspector general reports to the congress and of course it is an illegal act. there is nothing in the statute that gives the director of national intelligence the authority do what he did. and the american people should be worried about that because, you know, when pure talking about a classified environment, when you're talking about nsa

and cia, you either go the established routes to talk about something that you think is a violation of the law, that is to say you come to congress the way this whistleblower does, or maybe you do what edward snowden did and take all of our secrets and put them out there. america should think hard of which route they prefer and they have compromise. the legal route. >> we've been talking about benny gantz and benjamin netanyahu, very close race. "the washington post" just broke the headline that israel -- israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his main rival handed a possible power sharing agreement to end political crisis. and that's all they say. they say it's a developing story, they'll continue. >> which would be a concession fournet for netanyahu. but we'll stay on top of that story. i want to go back to this ig

report with this person that will come and offer you classified information about who the president talked to and what the promise was. what would be the next step from your committee based on what you learn in about 90 minutes from now depending on what it is? there's been some speculation again, we should underline we don't know who he spoke to but there's speculation that it may have been a july 31st phone call to vladimir putin that was originally charactered by the white house as it to talk about siberian wildfires which raised eyebrows at the time? what will you do next from the information you hear this morning? >> well, and let's -- let's reiterate that we're talking about press reports. >> yeah. >> we don't know what exactly is in the substaps of th in the substance of this complaint. not all whistleblower complaints are about serious stiff. t stuff. the law says these complaints will be transmitted to the appropriate committees in the congress. it could be nothing, it could be something very, very serious. you know, i almost hate to

speculate, but if the president made some kind of promise to vladimir putin -- and here we need to be careful too. he is the president of the united states. he has the authority to declassify whatever materials he wants. he has the authority to negotiate with foreign leaders. but, you know, just to sort of play the other end of the spectrum, if he promised vladimir putin, you know, to lift sanction if the russians help him in the next election, now we have a very, very serious challenge to our democracy. i'm not saying it it's that, i' just saying it could be very serious and can't speculate until we hear from the inspector general. >> if the inspector general said it is of, quote, urgent concern. >> it's not nothing. it's not nothing. >> yeah. the problem with this president, of course, is that, you know, the president via twitter threatens to insinner rate north korea with nuclear weapons. is that serious or not? and so we'll have some thinking to do. >> right. that's a good point. congressman david ignatius has a question for you.

david. >> congressman, i just want to ask you about your own sense of the role going forward of the acting director of national intelligence, joseph maguire. this is not somebody people know a lot about. what are some of the questions you've got for maguire and his role? >> well, this gets us to the process that he followed, because he violated a very clear and explicit law about how he transmits whistleblower complaints to the congress. know there's no a.mbiguity in te law. once they have determined that a whils blower complaint is serious, the dni basically has a clerical role. he sends it to congress. he doesn't consult with the doj, he sure does not consult with the white house. and the reason that's important, we have to understand why this is important. the dni is the boss. he's the main man in the intelligence community. so if you're a guy beavering away in the intelligence community and you see something that concerns you, remember, the

intelligence community takes lethal action, it sur veils people, it does very dangerous stuff. if you're some guy beavering away at nsa and you see something that you think is elillegal, if you think i take the illegal route and my boss is going to decide whether congress gets to see what i'm worried about, that whole channel does not work. and we have a profound inability to provide oversight to the intelligence community. >> so congressman, the question is, what are the consequences for acting director maguire for suppressing this information? just straight up, what's -- what's your judgment about that? >> well, he needs to be held accountable the way anybody else who breaks the law is held accountable. this points to a much larger issue that we can spend ten seconds on. cory lewandowski comes to the congress and says i don't feel like answering your questions. no assertion of any legitimate privilege. the dni is making up privileges that don't exist in the law. congress needs to rebuild the sense that you don't get to hold it in contempt.

when congress says you give us answers, you do it. the trump administration has said we don't recognize this and that's not the twha country works. my republican friends who are hiding in the cracks in the floorboards here in the capitol, they out ought to remember there will be a democratic president someday and they should ask themselves how that democratic president flipping them the bird every time they want to do oversight of the executive when is run by a democrat. >> switching to iran, yesterday secretary of state pomp was in the middle east and declared that the attack on the oil field was a, quote, act of war. president backed off that a little bit and said he wanted to slow things down, wanted to consider weighing his options before deciding what do next. my question to you is how concerning is it for you that the administration is talking out of both sides of his mouth? that there's such conflicting messages from washington to both our allies and our potential adversaries? >> yeah, it's an interesting question. i actually asked this in a meeting with the intelligence community the other day. you know, saudi arabia isn't even pointing the finger at

iran. look, i believe that iran was involved in this. you know, the houthis don't have the technical capability to pull off that kind of raid. we don't know 100% for sure so we have to be careful about that. but, look, you know, pompeo's not wrong. when missile's attack one of your oil fields, that's an act of war. what do the saudis do about it? it was saudi arabia that was attacked. we've sold saudi arabia hundreds of billions of dollars worth of advanced weaponry. you know, i think everybody if it turns out to be iran would forgive them for doing a proportionate response for an act of war on their territory. the united states is not obligated to do that. we are not the world's policemen, we are certainly not, you know, a treaty ally of a country that dismembers journalists, that bombs school children in yemen, that won't let women out of the house without a male relative. i want to slow down this notion that you guys were pushing that

somehow our credibility, our, you know, iran needs to be checked, it needs to be pushed back on, but it is not necessarily the united states' role to retaliate for a strike that they may have done in saudi arabia. >> elise. >> congressman, some diplomats in the region argue that when iraq invaded kuwait it was not cue twh kuwait that went to war with iraq, it was the united states that built the coalition and stood up the international community. what do you think of that argument? >> well, i think that that is when you go to war that is absolutely the way you do it. but i also think that if we go to war, the constitution is very clear that this institution that i'm standing in right now decides to do that, not the president of the united states. so, yes, that is the way to go to war. but, mika, we need to remember two things that happened after the kuwait war, which was exactly the way one does these things, god bless george h.w. bush. number one, it was a coalition.

number two, we need to remember that the president has created the conditions that led to this attack. if we were still in the iran nuclear agreement, which the president, a man who couldn't tell you the difference between uranium and plutonium decided it was a bad idea that he destroyed, there never would have been an attack on saudi arabia. would the iranians be behaving themselves? no, they wouldn't. but what they're doing in saudi arabia with all of these tankers and all the misbehaving they're doing, they're doing because we walked away from an agreement that we didn't need to waulk awy from. we need to remember that we are where we are because of the actions of donald trump. >> all right. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we'll be following 9:00 a.m. to see what happens with the intelligence committee. still ahead, silicon valley and the democratic party used to be allies. these days not so much. new york magazine is looking at that breakup and what it means as we head toward 2020. that reporting is ahead.

and as we go to break, a look at the latest issue of time magazine, the new cover story is about how the e-cigarette maker juul hooked kids and ignited a public health crisis. "morning joe" is back in a moment. h crisis "morning joe" is back in a moment i didn't have to call 911.help. and i didn't have to come get you. because you didn't have another heart attack. not today.

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welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful picture of the united states capitol. it's 7:45 in the morning. facebook's ceo mark zuckerberg is in washington to speak to lawmakers about future internet regulation in the is the first time zuckerberg is in washington since he testified before congress last year over facebook's privacy practices. joining us now, writer at large "the new york times" opinion desk charlie. he rights about the intersection of technology, media and politics. also with us national correspondent for new york magazine, gabriel debenedetti. his latest piece is entitled the 21st sent drit 21st century breakup. great to have you. can't wait to talk football in a

second. gabriel, what did this breakup again a begin and what does it look like today? >> this is a situation where the leaders of the democratic party and leaders of silicon valley for a long, loaning time were allies not only in politics but also in washington when it comes to regulation and things along those lines. but ever since donald trump was elected, there have been splits in this relationship and now what we have is a situation where leaders are questioning each other. they're not seeing eye to eye either on politics or on regulation and you have democrats questioning how can we understand the motives of these companies? you have people like mark zuckerberg but other leaders of silicon valley no longer see the democrats as unquestioning allies that they can go to every time they feel like republicans are being unfair to them. >> you have elizabeth warren on the campaign trail talking a lot about breaking up big tech, antitrust talk around silicon

valley. so where, then, does mark zuckerberg, where does google and these giant companies turn for political allies if they're not the democrats? >> let's be clear, it's not as if the democrats have suddenly turned all the way against these companies unquestioningly or that republicans are suddenly close allies of these companies. in many cases that's not the case either. but what we're seeing here is more that these companies are being treated just as the giant corporations they are and not as some sort of extra, you know, something else on the side. some sort of super kind of unicorny companies that get to be treated in a different way. so they're getting this kind of real scrutiny from both sides of the aisle. there's a lot of democrats who think pretty positively about a lot of these companies, but it's no longer this kind of unquestioning, no scrutiny attitude that a lot of them have. so there are some close allies on the hill, but a lot of people have started to put some serious distance between themselves and these companies when you look at leading senators, for example. >> it's steve ratner. i agree that the tech companies

are in the doghouse on both sides of the aisle. i would love to hear your thoughts that it's essentially self-inflicted 'the they thought they had been delivered from god and that they were exempt from any of the kind of criticism or privacy concerns that everybody else is faced with and so they acted in a rather tone -- i think in a rather tone deaf manner, particularly facebook, but also google and others. so it seems to me they have a lot of work do to repair themselves. i wonder how you think about that and whether they're focussed on repairing their standing. >> that's why you have someone like mark zuckerberg in washington to talk about the path forward with a lot of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. but the idea of it being a sel inflicted wound is a real perspective that you see a lot on capitol hill these days, particularly coming from democrats who would really like to like a lot of these companies. but there's this story that basically all most immediately after the election mark zuckerberg went out there and said it's crazy to think that facebook could have had some sort of role in electing donald

trump with all this disinformation. and president trump obama actually while he was still in office saw that comment and made a point to pull mark zuckerberg aside a few days later eight conference they were both at in peru and he looked mark in the eye, few days later at a conference they were both at in peru and said, it is not crazy. at the time zuckerberg said, yeah, it is complicated and it is not as big an issue as you think it is. he said it in a private meeting with president obama that i report on that has been talked about a little bit in the past, and since that it set the tone. you had facebook from the start saying, this is not as big an issue as you think it is, democrats. democra democrats obviously saying, whoa, why aren't you taking it seriously. >> the new piece, 21st century breakup inside the politics in magazine now. >> it is important when we talk about self-inflicted wounds, sheryl sandberg warned time and time again about the russians and others.

>> sure. >> improperly using facebook. somebody wanting to actually investigate to see how badly it got and her screaming and yelling, and the de rigrision t was shown. you know, zuckerberg went out on his campaign tour after donald trump got elected to middle america. i think it just -- they just haven't been serious. >> that's the problem. >> i don't know any legislator that can't -- can't talk about breaking this company up when over 50% of americans get their news from them. >> right. >> they're showing absolutely no respect, no restraint. >> that's the frustration from not just elizabeth warren but a lot of democrats, not only that they didn't do enough in 2016 but they're not taking the problem seriously now and they need the help of the private companies to combat interference in elections. charlie, let's turn to your piece, a broad piece about privacy online. let's take the example you use to get the question from the

university of alabama. >> roll tide. >> roll big brother. >> nick say ban, the legendary coach at alabama, is frustrated that students are leaving the games early because they blow everybody out, nothing to see in the fourth quarter. was has the university of alabama done to incentivize, let's say, students to stay through the end of the game? >> the university of alabama partnered with an app maker. it is basically an awards system. it tracks your location and rewards you if you stay to the end of the games. these are people who are opting in to be surveilled, to be spied on in order to get rewards points which help them get better seats for the bowl games or any late season games which are going to be not blow-outs. who knows? but this is the university saying, we want to invade your privacy and we're going to incentivize that. it is just a very problematic behavior when it comes to our surveillance state right now and

the questions we have. >> we should say you do have to opt into this. i love the presumption, joe, we will get you the national championship game. >> we'll be there. >> we will be there. >> i'm actually going through my location services right now. never, never, never, never. all right. go ahead. >> so how popular has this been with alabama? >> never. >> do they opt in? >> of course it has been popular. i think there are a lot of students who are frustrated by it. there's also this very strange, you know, lack of understanding of how students behave and how people actually use technology. there's different talk that pledges and different fraternities will be staying at the game. so the bigger conversation about privacy is that the data is very sensitive. it doesn't go to this company necessarily. it can be passed to other companies, shady advertisers and it is personal, where you are in the world. >> it is a good thing we don't have a smaller app for the show,

otherwise barnacle would never -- >> good point. >> he is out by 7:30. broadening out a little bit, talk to us about the idea of privacy. who is responsible for that? isn't that a piece of the story as well? shouldn't the onus be on the institution, the business, the university? so often it is put on the individual looking at the app, the student, right? >> this is the problem with silicon valley in general. there's an idea that the consumer has all of this choice. but when we use the technology we are using it to participate in life. you can't opt out of the internet. for the students they don't want to opt out of, you know, a life experience, the chance to do this stuff. so the stakes are kind of confusing for them. they don't know necessarily what they're getting into it. they don't know the consequences. privacy is really an issue of control and there's really -- you know, it is an illusion we have control when it comes to facebook, google, amazon. these are multi-bill dollar

institutions, they're huge. we need the institutions to protect us and not leave it up to us, the individual. >> i get through most of my app. never, never, never. thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> roll tide. >> nick saban is watch. >> yes, he is. >> so david ignatius, you just got back from hong kong. what a remarkable trip you had. tell us what you saw there? >> joe, it is exhilarating to be in the streets with tens of thousands of hong kong chinese who say, stand with hong kong, fight for freedom, who wave american flags. i can't remember i was last time in a foreign country where people were waving american flies, defying the authorities in beijing just over the bay, across the mountain, and saying, "we want freedom and democracy in our region. you promised this to hong kong in 1997 and you are reneging on

it. these hong kong chinese are taking big risks personally because they've bere has been increasing use of tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets. but more generally, about their political future i worry that this may end up like the arab spring, getting crushed. but i just would urge people to look at the footage of these young kids in the streets saying we want freedom and democracy. >> thank you so much, david ignatius. we love having you on. still ahead, president trump visited the southern border to talk up his border wall but may have said a bit too much. we will play the awkward moment when he was checked by the head of the army corps. you are watching "morning joe". we will be right back and see what happens. ♪ limu emu & doug

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know if somebody is trying to break through. you may want to discuss that a little bit, general. >> sir, there could be some merit in not discussing that. >> i like that. that was a great answer. >> that is president trump saying way too much about border security and speaking of loose lips. according to "the washington post" trump's interactions with a foreign leader included a promise regarded as so troubling l it prompted an official in the u.s. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general. >> who also said it was deeply troubling and the justice department squelched it. at that point they're supposed to automatically get the information over to congress and the oversight committees. >> we will talk with the reporter behind that bombshell. >> right now there's a coverup. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is thursday, september 19th. along with joe, willie and me we have former treasury official

and "morning joe" economic analyst steve radner. journalist in resident at georgetown university school of foreign service elise labott. and columnist for "the washington post" david ignatius. there's just a little bit more of that border wall discussion. >> by the way, there's more. you could fry an egg on it. >> you can, really. it is that hot. >> yes. >> and it was kind of disturbing almost to hear him -- >> we'll let you hear more. >> -- sell this wall. >> -- of president trump speaking from the southern border yesterday. you tell us what you think about your commander in chief. >> so you have the rebar. you have the outer crust and you have the inside is concrete and it is hardened concrete. very powerful concrete. the concrete is poured after it is up. they pour it through tunnels and a lot of technological advances have been made with concrete. if you think you are going to cut it with a blow torch it won't work because you hit concrete. i said, how about doing the less

version. they said it is the version that works. how this stops, it is an anti-climb device if you look at the steel on top. we actually built prototypes and we have -- i guess you could say world class mountain climbers. this wall can't be climbed. it is very, very hard. we have climbers. we had 20 mountain climbers, all they do, they love to climb mountains. they can have it. me, i don't want to climb mountains. plus, it is designed to absorb heat so it is extremely hot. you can fry an egg on that wall. if they're going to climb it, they have to bring hoses and water and we don't know where they will hook it up because there's not a lot of water out here. nobody is going over the wall, but going over it is virtually impossible. i guess maybe one of the greatest pole vaulters in history could get over the low one, but it will be very painful when they land, right? >> oh, my god. >> but it is also thick. >> let us just have our laugh right now. >> no, i mean the entire studio is in hysterics. by the way, we're not even

adding value to the joke. it is him that is hysterical and not in a good way. i'm sorry. i don't mean to be a wet blanket but it was ridiculous. >> i think it is the obvious nature of your comments that -- that -- >> true. >> -- that you keep repeating every day. >> incredible. you can fry an egg on it. >> so, willie. >> yes, joe. >> i did not know until now that there actually was a rolls royce of sheet metal, but this is the rolls royce of sheet metal. nor did i know that the president of the united states kept 20 mountain climbers, who love climbing mountains and that's all they do, they love to climb mountains all the time. they live to climb. he keeps them on hand just in case. one other thing, and it is laborious. >> it is obvious too, but go ahead. >> it is laborious to bring out, but before donald trump was

president of the united states, border crossings ran a half century low. you would have to go back to joey scarborough playing t-ball with the doorville hawks. >> good squad. >> a good squad, good squad. i was about to tell you what i did at dorville hawks when i was five years old. you would have to go back 50 years to find a time when there were less border crossings before donald trump became president of the united states, and now with iran and now with the ig report and now with economists and the fed chair worried about a looming recession. with all of the things going on across the world, you've got the president of the united states doing a commercial for sheet metal on the border.

>> pole vaulters, mountain climbers, rolls royce of sheet metal. we are laughing not because it is funny but because it is absurd, the argument he is making. the amount of wall stacked behind him may be the total amount of wall he put up since he promised it would go up. as joe said, the fact that he is taking time with everything that's is going down, going down and fanning the story he started four years ago during the campaign, build that wall, build that wall. he has to keep that story going. and when he can keep it going for four years he starts talking about things like mountain climbers and pole vaulters to make the case for something that's not happening. >> well, david ignatius, none of it has happened. that certainly is what "fox news" reported even last month, that he hasn't built any wall. so now he is going down. in the words of john lennon, nobody loves you when you're down and out. an appropriate title for the president right now. it is all show biz.

that's all it is. it is all show biz because if you even talk to his first secretary of homeland security, general kelly, you know, physical structures -- there are better investments we can make to keep people out of the country. you talk to lindsey graham and you talk to john cornyn back when republicans had the power to fund the wall and they said, no, no, it is not a smart investment of money or time. there are a lot of smarter ways to keep our border secure and keep people out, and yet there he is, a display, all show biz. there's something that's not even going to be the most effective way to secure america's borders. >> joe, i have looked at some of these new technologies, put on virtual reality goggles and you watch activity in the border areas. you watch, you know, where a cow was an hour ago, standing in for

a human being. it is just crazy to be fixated on these -- you know, just how good the feel is and the rolls royce of this and that. it is not like there are not other things going on in the world, so we're worried -- >> that's a great point. there is a lot going on this morning. we will get to the new information on the secret whistleblower complaint that the trump administration is refusing to hand over to congress. two former u.s. officials tell "the washington post" it involves a promise that the president made to a foreign leader that was thought to be so troubling it prompted a u.s. intelligence official to file a former whistleblower complaint with the intel community's inspector general. the post says it is unclear which foreign leader the president was speaking with or what he promised. but nbc news has since learned from a former u.s. intelligence official that it involves a

phone conversation. the entire ordeal is at the center of the latest battle between the trump administration and congress after the acting director of national intelligence, joseph maguire, overruled the inspector general's determination that the complaint was of urgent concern. >> look up right there. the inspector general of the intel community said this was of, quote, urgent concern, that the president's conversation, his promise to a foreign leader was of, quote, urgent concern. the independent inspector general said that. >> right. >> and that congress should be made aware of this conversation that was of, i will say again, the word, quote, the phrase urgent concern. >> and the acting attorney general, the acting head of the intelligence community, the dni, doesn't think it is of such

concern that needs to be taken a look at. i mean this is not the first time that the president has had a terrible relationship with the intelligence community. he has disrespected the intelligence community. he has questioned their judgment. that, you know, was one of the reasons that led to the resignation of dni dan coates. and he at every turn has done this, and i have spoken to officials, former officials in the intelligence community, current officials. it is not the first time officials have had a real problem with some of the conversations when they read the readouts of this president. >> david ignatius, of course, most famously the president of the united states in early 2017 had the foreign minister of russia who was sitting there smiling like a cheshire cat for a good reason and russia's ambassador to the united states listened to the president inside the white house where he banned american press from coming in but allowed russians to come in.

probably with listening devices. and actually spilled intel to the russian foreign minister. i mean this happens a good bit. in this case though, i mean this has gone -- again, this has gone to the inspector general in this whistleblower case and he said it is of urgent concern, what the president said to this foreign leader, what the president promised this foreign leader was of such foreign concern that congress and the oversight committees had to know about it and yet it is being killed. do you have an idea what the nature of the conversation was, david? >> joe, we will have in a moment one of our "washington post" reporters, sharon harris, who wrote a very important piece which is as much as we know according to the article. this involves a promise that allegedly was made by president trump to some foreign national that was so worrisome to somebody in the intelligence

community that became aware of it that it seems in early august they made a report to do inspector general, michael atkinson. that troubled at kkinson so muc that within a month later he reported that allegation, that ig issue that was of urgent concern to the head of the house intelligence committee, schiff, adam schiff. so there are a couple of things to focus on. what was it that was said, that was taken as a promise that was so upsetting? i'll let shane go through the list of possibilities but they are the ones you would think, putin, kim jong-un are the top of the list. what was it that made michael atkinson, the inspector general, so troubled that he felt he absolutely had a reporting allegation? what happened to intervene to prevent discussion by joseph maguire, the acting director of national intelligence before the

congressional committee? there are a series of questions. when you come to the end of it it looks to me as if the trump administration is deliberately seeking to undo the rules that bounded u.s. intelligence activities basically since the watergate and intelligence scandals in the '70s. >> we will get to shane in a second. >> i think what david said is the key. why is the acting attorney -- acting dni stonewalling this? why doesn't he want to let this -- let congress know about this? that is the real key. what are they hiding? >> what are they covering up? it is a coverup. >> it is totally a coverup. i think the obvious issue of intelligence and what went on between trump and this foreign leader are central to this, but so is the relationship between the white house and the congress, which is yet another example of the white house refusing to follow normal procedure, laws, separation of powers and the rights of congress to know what is going

on here. >> the question is what are the republicans thinking on the hill? are the republicans curious about the inspector general, an independent inspector general, saying what the president said was so deeply troubling that they need to be made aware of it? >> we won't hold our breath, will we, knowing what we know about republicans in congress. >> knowing that moscow mitch is not protecting american democracy from the kremlin, when republicans now -- former conservatives like grover nordquist are coming out, the trumpists are coming out and a saying, you have to protect our democracy. >> put aside moscow mitch, where is lindsey graham. >> all of them. >> where is tom cotton, the people who say they're most focused on the integrity of the u.s. >> that is correct. >> in the middle of this whole issue with iran and saudi arabia and the president is asking the international community to trust the intelligence at the same time he's disregarding u.s.

intelligence. >> undermining it. >> this is really a key time for u.s. intelligence coming up as promised, we will bring in "the washington post" reporter who helped break this story. shane harris joins us straight ahead with much more. "morning joe" is back in a moment. impering] ♪ the all-new 2020 ford explorer limited hybrid. can tow up to 5000 lbs and has an epa-estimated range of 500 miles per tank. it's the greatest exploration vehicle of all time. ( ♪ )

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it's time to make the switch to comcast business and take your business beyond fast. don't miss out on this limited time offer. call 1-800-501-6000 today. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe". we have been talking about the new reporting in "the washington post" about a whistleblower complaint by an intelligence officer claiming president trump said something troubling to a foreign leader. let's bring in shane harris of "the washington post" who helped break that story. first of all, shane, wow. even in the age of trump we can say wow because this is something we have not seen. let's talk about the possibilities here, about who the president of the united states may have been talking to, who he may have made this promise to. a lot of people looking at a july 31st phone call from the president to vladimir putin.

as we look back on it, the readout from the white house that day was that president trump was calling to express concern and to offer help with siberian wildfires, which even in real-time struck a lot of people as odd. again, we don't know what the call is but what are the possibilities here? >> that certainly has to be near the list, i mean given the president's interactions with russian officials in the past and divulging of sensitive and classified information. the president talks to a lot of foreign leaders, and i think one of the important things to key in on here is that whoever made the complaint we reported previously is an intelligence community official who worked at the national security council. a lot of people get assigned over there for sometime, and then made this complaint. why i emphasize that is i don't think you are probably talking about somebody who saw the president doing something that was not significant. these are usually fairly experienced people. they're well-versed in what the rules are. by the way, people who would know that the president can divulge classified information to whomever he wants, and, of

course, has done that before. while we don't know precisely what this allegation sensors on, i have to think it is something significant. as you pointed out, the inspector general thinks it is significant. we have to think about the source, the person that would have seen this or would have been aware of this, would have well understood by this point president trump's proclivities with foreign leaders, his handling of classified information, and yet still saw something here that he or she felt needed to go to this independent watchdog. >> shane, the term here is urgent concern, used by the inspector general. that actually is not just his personal characterization, that's a legal threshold. >> that's right. >> when something reaches urgent concern he has to reach out to the intelligence committees, he has to reach out to congress. what falls under that threshold? what may he have seen or heard that thought, you know what, i have to push this to congress now? >> the statute talks about flagrant abuse of power. it talks about illegal acts. obviously a lot of acts are not illegal for the president that are illegal for other people.

classified information sharing, he can do that. >> by the way. >> but the power is the key piece. >> shane made this point in the piece, i heard other people make this point. it is important for people waking up and listen to this, this is not about the president doing something reckless like sharing intel from other countries to foreign minister lavrov. he shouldn't do that but he has the ability to blurt out highly classified information. that would not meet this threshold of urgent concern. this is something actually worse, something that the ig suspected might be illegal, which prompted the, quote, urgent concern. >> well, i don't think we know that it might be illegal, but i think your deduction, joe, is right. this is not something in the category of things we have seen the president do. frankly, he tweeted a highly classified satellite image a few weeks ago. we have seen those kind of

things. inspector generals are aware of those kind of things and to your point it is not illegal, the president can do that. whatever he did or is alleged to have done here falls into a different category, possibly in this statutory definition of flagrant abuse of power. enough so that the ig thought the congress needed to know about it. they don't know the substance of the allegation, by the way. that's very important. they know it happened but they are still in the dark like the rest of us about the details. >> wow. >> shane, thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe", first mexico was going to pay for the wall. >> yeah, no, they didn't. >> then it was going to pay through trailed deals. >> no. >> now it is paying by deploying its own soldiers? the president's latest explanation on that front. next on "morning joe". how do you get skin happy aveeno® with prebiotic oat. it hydrates and softens skin.

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so you have the rebar. you have the outer crust and you have the inside is concrete, and it is hardened concrete. very powerful concrete. again, the concrete is poured after it is up. they pour it through funnels and a lot of technological advances have been made with concrete. if you think you are going to cut it with a blow torch, that doesn't work because you hit concrete. i said, how about doing the less expensive version? they said, this is the version that works, it is the rolls royce version. it is an anti-climb device, if

you look at the steel on top. we actually built prototypes and we have -- i guess you could say world class mountain climbers. this wall can't be climbed. it is very, very hard. we have climbers, we had 20 mountain climbers. that's all they do. they love to climb mountains. they can have it. me, i don't want to climb mountains. plus, it is designed to absorb heat. you can fry an egg on the wall. if they want to climb, they're going to have to bring houses and water and we don't know where they will hook it up because there's no water out here. going over the wall is virtually impossible. i guess maybe one of the greatest pole vaulters in history could get over the low one but it will be painful when they land, right? >> so -- >> oh, my god. >> can i go through the checklist again? the rolls royce of sheet metal. we have climbers, mountain climbers. >> no, we don't. >> some of the best mountain

climbers in the world. >> my gut is we don't actually. >> you know what else we have, wooders. he has hoses, and waters and wooders and he can fry an egg on it. >> it is vintage trump but it is also mean and ugly. >> don't forget, if you call right now you get a set of steak knives that you won't believe it. >> trump steaks, remember those? >> you won't be able to get through the metal but through a steak. the u.s. has replaced 66 miles of fencing include nine miles of renovated fencing but the u.s. has yet to extend the border wall. >> what do you mean? >> there's no new wall. >> i heard shep smith and "fox news" say he hasn't built one mile of new wall. >> well, shep will report that. there are -- >> has he only been actually fixing barack obama's wall? >> that's correct. >> oh, okay. >> there are 654 miles of border wall in the u.s. according to

customs and border protection. it is the same number of miles that existed at the start of president trump's term. >> so, willie, does this mean that -- >> it was already there. >> -- he actually has not expanded the wall? >> there's no wall being -- >> one mile? >> he has done light renovations is effectively what he has done. >> like what he does when he takes over a building and puts his name on it. >> sort of dusts it up. can i ask you. maybe he sent out people to dust the wall or something. >> sure. >> can i ask you. >> climbers. >> waters. >> he said he was going to build the wall, mexico was going to pay for it. what you're saying is that he has not extended the wall by one foot? >> it is not just me saying it, joe. it is u.s. customs and border protection. >> so the trump administration is saying it? >> that's correct. >> so what you're saying is that donald trump's own administration is saying he has not expanded the wall one mile. let me ask you this. didn't the republicans -- i can't remember well.

i was following baseball in '16 and '17 and '18, but didn't the republican -- didn't the republicans control congress and the white house in '17 and '18? >> they sure did. >> and he didn't extend the wall one foot? explain this to me like i'm a fourth grader because i don't understand. he said he was going to build a wall and mexico was going to pay, but they controlled congress. they controlled the white house. donald trump's own administration is saying they didn't extend the wall one foot? >> couldn't get the money for it. >> wow. >> it is almost like the entire thing has been a farce from the first time he mentioned it on the campaign trail in 2015. >> i can't believe it. >> just a rhetorical device -- >> to rile up crowds. >> to rile up the teaming masses? >> yes. >> but he never really followed through on this? >> originally we all thought the farce was that mexico was going to pay for it. >> that was a farce. >> a huge farce. >> it turns out there was another farce, which was that the wall would be constructed at all. remember donald trump then during the 2016 campaign made

that promise that mexico would pay for the wall. >> he did. >> he claimed mexico was paying with the decision to police the border with soldiers. >> well, they're paying for 27,000 soldiers, as you know, and i am so -- we are all thrilled. you know, mexico has never done anything to keep people from pouring into our country. if i took 5%, 5% tariff for six months, that pays for the entire wall. >> for the record, mexico deployed 15,000 soldiers to the u.s./mexican border this summer, not 27,000. he made that number up. the pentagon said this month it would use $3.6 in military construction funding to build the wall, stealing from other military projects to pay for a wall that has not been built. >> stealing from other military projects while we have a real showdown going on right now. >> in puerto rico. >> yes, he is taking from lots of important base renovations

and things like that, but he also had a couple billion dollars from a couple of years ago appropriated for the wall he also never spent. they don't seem to be capable even when they have the money of actually going out there and building the wall. >> david, all of this talk, all of this talk of the wall, david, while we are in a crisis -- >> that's him signing it with a sharpy squarely. >> in the middle east and with leaders from the middle east telling me if the united states doesn't figure out a proportionate response to iran's attacks that no one will respect america again. >> well, it doesn't seem like the iranians are really intimidated by all of this wall footage. you would have to say, joe, the man knows his concrete though. that was an impressive display of concrete knowledge. >> coming up on "morning joe", congresswoman eleanor holmes norton is standing by. we will get the latest on the

democrat's push for impeachment and where the debate over gun legislation stands today. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ i got that vibe, got that vibe ♪ ♪ got that vibe, yeah, i ain't petty, ♪ ♪ looking fly, looking fly, ♪ ♪ looking fly, yeah, they ain't ready. ♪ ♪ i can shine, i can shine, ♪ ♪ i can shine. ♪ i'mma do what i'm made to do. ♪

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just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ your business is up and running, but is it going beyond fast? comcast business gives you high speed internet. we also have solutions like powerful wifi that gives your entire business more coverage and automatic internet backup that can keep your business running. and it all starts with our gig-speed network. so give us 10 minutes. if we can't offer you faster speed or better savings

than your current internet service, we'll give you 300 dollars for your time. call now to get your comcast business 10 minute advantage. comcast business. beyond fast. ♪ the trump administration today is expected to formally announce its plan to revoke california's authority to set its own tail pipe pollution regulations. trump tweeted yesterday, there will be very little difference in emissions between the california standard and the new u.s. standard, but the cars will be far safer and much less expensive. many more cars will be produced under the new and uniform standard, meaning significantly more jobs, jobs, jobs. automakers should seize this opportunity because without this alternative to california you will be out of business.

california has vowed to take this fight all the way to the supreme court, and the state's attorney general said, quote, our message to those who claim to support state's rights is don't trample on ours. we cannot afford to back slide in our battle against climate change. president trump yesterday also continued his criticism of california's homeless population, threatening action by the environmental protection agency against the city of san francisco for being in, quote, serious violation of environmental rules. speaking to reporters aboard air force one last night, trump, according to "the new york times", said tremendous pollution was flowing into the ocean because of waste in storm sewers, and he specifically cited used needles. trump added, quote, they have to clean it up. we can't have our cities going to hell. okay. the oversight committee today will hold its first house

hearing in more than a quarter century on legislation to make the district of columbia america's first 51st state. joining us now, the original sponsor of the house bill for d.c. state hood, democratic congressman eleanor holmes norton who serves the district of columbia and is a member of the oversight committee. thanks very much for being on the show. tell me -- >> of course. >> -- about the bill and what are its chances of passing? >> i'm sure most of you, our listeners, think they know everything about the nation's capitol because we get millions of visitors every year. but apparently most do not know that the 700,000 residents who live in the nation's capital pay the highest taxes. listen to this figure. the highest taxes per capita in the united states, have no senators, have only me in the house. i vote on some measures, but on final passage i cannot vote even if that matter has to do with

the district of columbia. so we want to become the 51st state. we have a bill that we think is not only perfectly constitutional but a bill that i am predicting will pass the house of representatives this congress. >> congresswoman, it is willie geist. it is good to see you this morning. let me put forth an argument made by majority leader mcconnell and other republicans, and he says, making the district a state would give democrats an undue advantage, effectively adding probably likely two more democrats to the senate if you become a state. is this a political tactic in your eyes? >> that's totally political. in other words you ought to deny people representation in the house of representatives and in the senate because they happen to be democrats? we don't think that most americans buy that. in fact, a gallup poll has been done for the first time on this issue, and it has found that most americans either don't know

we don't have full voting rights or are for it. that's two-thirds of the american people. the american people don't stand for the notion that you should pay taxes, something that nobody really wants to do, and have no representation in the congress of the united states. >> congresswoman, it is jonathan lemire. switching gears, obviously there was a lot of focus on the hill when corey lewandowski when the president's former campaign manager testified in a combative manner. should he have been held in contempt. secondly, what are democrats getting from the hearings right now which are turning into these ugly partisan fights and yet the ball on impeachment doesn't seem to be moving forward at all? >> yes, and that's why this is only an impeachment inquiry. if you get too deep into impeachment we just won't do the rest of our work, and yet the house has passed bills of great

importance from gun control to climate change. so, yes, that hearing was disturbing, but almost inevitably so. i expected lewandowski to do exactly what he did, to be combative, and yet the committee wouldn't have been doing its job if it hadn't asked the hard questions. >> but don't you think he should have been held in contempt like in the moment? i don't know what else one would need to do to deserve that. >> i don't believe that you hold somebody in contempt for being combative. >> well, he was also -- i mean what is the law and what is the -- i don't know. what is the reason that he couldn't answer the questions? because it seemed to be a dishonest one. >> i think that -- >> he should have been answering questions. >> he invoked the president, saying that -- >> but he didn't work in the white house. >> he certainly didn't work in the white house. >> so -- >> if there is to be contempt,

it could occn't occur on the sp. they have to look at the transcript and see whether his answers, which he sought to put under the veil of the president, are in fact contemptible. he would just be one more in contempt. >> but with all due respect, that letter was written before the hearing. the letter, most members of the committee would say -- >> which letter are you speaking of? >> the one from the white house which said -- it sounded like the white house writing a letter about me saying i can't say something. it is nonexistent as it pertains to the law. why was he not held in contempt in the moment? what is it going to take? why can't those who are supposed to be asking the questions and holding this presidency accountable, why can't they be more nimble and act in the moment and see what they see and act on it? >> well, first of all, you're right. the letter was completely bogus. >> it was bogus. >> but i think in the history of

congress it is hard to find somebody who has been held in contempt at the moment as he stood before them. i am amazed there wasn't a motion to hold him in contempt. >> me too. >> but it may be because that's unprecedented and you don't do that without something more formal happening. you don't do it on the spot. that's the only reason i can think of. >> yes. everything -- you know, everything is unprecedented. i think we got to figure out how to -- >> that's the point. >> the pent au gon juagon just documents to congress to reveal the u.s. military spent almost $200,000 in taxpayer funds at president trump's turnberry resort between 2017 and 2019. in a letter to the house oversight committee, which is investigating military spending at turnberry, the pentagon acknowledged it spent just over $184,000 at the president's scottish resort in lodging and

unidentified additional expenses. lawmakers are calling the pentagon's disclosures woefully inadequate, noting they failed to produce spending receipts. the resort lost around $4.5 million in 2017. "politico" reported it increased by 3 million the following year. the deadline was set for all invoices, contracts and agreements and internal and external memos to be released. that's your committee. what do you do if you don't get the answers? how do you hold the questions to have the president held accountable, potentially making money off the presidency for his resorts? >> that's pretty contemptible. >> yeah. >> he has until september 27th. what the president has been doing is ignoring our committee,

the oversight committee, and for that matter every other committee. what you have here is a breakdown of separation of powers. when president obama was president on this committee, we asked for certain things. they always turned over things. sometimes we were displeased he didn't turn over as much as we wanted, but this notion of stonewalling the congress, the congress can't sit by and let that happen. now that the democrats in fact have taken over the house we have got to show that we won't stand for it. so thus far we have had to go to the courts, even to get subpoenas enforced. >> okay. congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, thank you very much for being on the show. it is great to have you on. >> just go to the court. >> joe says hi. >> i wish you would have let me -- >> muzzled again. >> i'm a potted plant. i am seriously morning

television's answer to dennis thatcher. >> no, you're not. >> willie ran rough shod on that segment. >> you were thwarted like one of the mountain climbers trying to get over the wall at the border. >> every time. >> even though i had water being shot at me. >> and pole vaulting. >> one of the best pole vaulters ever. >> won the 'of olympics in mexico city. i still can't get over the walls. >> still a big story. >> mountain gets with suction cups, he is going to talk about that next. >> oh, my god. >> do you think they can get over the wall? >> no one can. >> our thanks to congresswoman eleanor holmes norton. >> i wish i could have said hi. >> up next. >> hannity, we are ready to go. >> can i lodge a complaint? >> sure. >> i'm watching the rest of the president's speech in new mexico. i wanted to see the ending. you cut to your debate early and i want -- it was just at the end. sorry. i loved watching your show too.

>> is that the white house speaking or is that you? >> no, that's sean hannity speaking. i went down to watch the rest of it. >> i couldn't tell. i'm just teasing you. >> yeah, i'm just teasing you. hold on. >> 99%. >> get the sword out of your back. i'm just teasing you. >> it is true. >> wow. >> my mother always said, joey, they're never joking, never joking. >> two of the president's favorites going after each other in a little bit this week. we will talk about that. we'll also talk about the white house's approach to the media next on "morning joe". ♪ you hear you talking when i'm on the street ♪ "have you lost w" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick.

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okay, so their painful thing, i think she said it again, it goes on. do you want to see more? >> pj is saying he wants to hear more. it's not up to me. 99% of all joking is true. >> hannity, fantastic show, am i allowed to file a complaint. i wanted to see the ending. you cut to your debate early and i want -- it was just at the end. sorry. i love watching your show, too. >> is that the white house speaking or you.

>> that's me speaking. >> i wouldn't tell, i'm just teasing you. i'm just teasing you. we're right at the crescendo. think of a great work of bach or mo mosart. >> you handle your hour, i'll handle my hour. don't try to boss me around in my hour, i don't posz you around in yours. >> i was watching and there was 3:00 left on the speech and i had to find it online. >> we love the president's speeches. >> that's what the kids love to see right there. that's what they come out for. come on, that was great tv. right? say what you will, even when the yankees have a good game, that is good tv.

>> stephanie ruhle has the some thoughts on your show. >> comparing a donald trump speech to motsart. joining me now, the president of media matters, anglo. >> we wanted to have you on because a couple weeks ago this was a story in the new york city about conservatives going -- it seems like some of the president's friends, don union's friend, have media matters for donald trump. fair enough, right? >> yeah, they're allowed to do that, right? >> i think the difference is they basically said their objective was dumpster diving and targeting people personally, right? i think most of what we focus on is misinformation. >> and in speaking of what you

call dumpster diving and it does happen on the left and the right, people call it cancer culture. it happened back in a 2005 blog, talk about that and you subsequently apologized for that, right? >> yeah, that was an old post. an old piece taken out of time and space. if it was part of a larger pattern i think it is a different thing. >> there was the guy on "snl" that said racially insensitive. we're talking about the right and the left. let's talk about this cancel culture, do we want to be engaged in that as a media

culture? >> i think we have to be really careful not to be reactionary. not liking something and disagreeing with it means you should have a disagreement and when you want to go after somebody, because if it is a larger pattern, if you can't get that change from that individual and you want to try to change the structure because they're specifically pushing extremism. using their platform, i think that is different. even what happened with that person, he is a comedian, right? they said they didn't vet him beforehand. they got a lot of blowbacks from groups that started digging. i think you can make broad critiques about politics and what a reporter says. i think when a immediacomedian s it should be looked through.

>> "snl" if they're using this standard, they cannot let dave chapelle back on the show. it is their job. >> yeah, and we're certainly in a new place right now about how everyone can have an opinion and react to that. there is a degree of the cancel culture that seems to rapidly emerge when they say something deemed offensive or controversial. let me switch back to fox. the president made the media a huge part of his campaign, but the relationship between fox news and the president was unprecedented. i was there when sean hannity was at the final rally and he introduced the president on stage in missouri. what are some of the troubling

signs you're seeing between the president and fox and not just like the occasional late night phone call with tucker carlson about policy. >> i think it is one of the attacks, right? it is easy to focus on that. fox news right now, it merged, and they're functioning in many ways like a policy shop, leek a political shop, and an hr department. 18 trump officials were fox news permits that got hir personalities that got hired. >> and even with all of that, the president spends a lot of time attacking. and then do they attack the president? >> yeah, there is a few fox news permits that zero out, and their

not going to carry water for them. one of his biggest complaints is they were letting democrats go on air and not defending him directly. immediately after a wave of those twitter attacks, some of the anchors seems to repeat or push back immediately after they we were -- >> we're way over. president of media matters, thank you for coming on. that does it for thus morning. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. there is a lot happening today. the big question today. it promp