what our family has been through >> and you've got such a nice, sunny disposition. how do you do that? >> i get my strength from my mother. that's all for now. i'm craig melville. thank you for watching. g melvile thank you for watching good morning, msnbc world headquarters in new york, it is 6:00 in the east. 3:00 out west. here is what is happening. the president's whistleblower fire storm just got more intense. new reporting shows trump pressured ukraine's leader to investigate joe biden's son eight times. the president now firing back. >> it doesn't matter what i discussed. i can say it was a totally appropriate conversation. it was actually a beautiful conversation. >> house democrats demanding details, the latest on the fight to get the transcript on the call released. >> what happened after an suv plowed through a big mall. >> 40 inches of rain, the effort

to save those stranded by flooding in texas. but first, washington is reeling from new explosive reporting that the president pressured a foreign leader to pursue an investigation that could deliver potential political dirt on his possible 2020 challenger. the "washington post" and "the new york times" now also reporting what "the wall street journal" broke yesterday, that president trump pressed the newly-elected president of ukraine to investigate the son of former vice president joe biden. nbc news has not independently confirmed it. "the wall street journal" reports during a phone call in july, president trump urged the ukrainian president about eight times to investigate hunter biden. according to people familiar with the matter. a source tells the journal, it does not appear the president offered anything in return but the month after the call, the administration did block aid to ukrai ukraine until last week. there is a bitter standoff. the trump administration is

refusing to release a whistle plore complaint about the president reportedly involving ukraine. president trump yesterday defiant. >> i don't know the identity of the whistleblower. i just hear it is a partisan person. meaning it comes out from another party. but i don't have any idea. but i can say that it was a totally appropriate conversation. it was actually a beautiful conversation. >> joe biden's son and his family -- >> it doesn't matter what i discussed, but i will say this, somebody ought to look into joe biden's statement because it was disgraceful. >> biden yesterday reacting to the president's allegations. >> wait a second. not one single credible outlet has given any credibility to his assertion. not one single one. and so i have no comment except the president's -- >> and biden released a statement about the latest reports on trump's conversations with the ukrainian leader which said in part, quote, if these

reports are true, then there is truly no bottom to president trump's willing tons abuse his power and abuse our country. at a minimum, donald trump should immediately release the transcript of the call in question. nbc white house correspondent kelly o'donnell joins us with more and kelly, good morning to you. the president continuing to defend himself against the official complaint. what happens now? >> reporter: one of the big questions is will we hear any more detail from the president now that we've learned these extra details that you just outlined, that specifically dive into the notion that this was about the ukraine call and specifically about pressure that the president may have put on the new, newly-elected leader of ukraine. part of what is interesting is president trump and presidezele ukraine are set to meet next

week. it is going to take on a whole different kind of dynamic because of all of. >> this of course the president said what he did was perfectly appropriate. his critics are saying it is far from that, to use the office of the president, to inquire, to pressure, to try to get some advantage over a political opponent, if that's what the facts bear out. and as you pointed out, nbc news has not confirmed all of that reporting. those new details. the president also was asked about another aspect of this, during the question and answer period in the oval office yesterday. here's more of that. >> it's a partisan whistleblower. it shouldn't even have information. i had conversations with many leaders that are always appropriate. >> are you -- >> no i haven't. >> who are you -- >> i just, it is everybody, they laughed at him. >> so that's a period of comment from the president, everybody's read it. this is a secretly filed formal

complaint that went from a member of the intelligence community, through the inspector general, for the intelligence community, part of the reason this has become such a controversy is because it's secret. congress has not even had access to it. so it is a very limited universe of individuals who have had access to see what is in the complaint. so the president suggesting that everybody's read it and laughed at it does not appear to be supported by the facts. the president himself said he has not read it. so that tends to be the president trying to discredit this. he acknowledged he doesn't know who the whistleblower is. called the person partisan. even though he doesn't know who the person is. clearly, the white house is trying to distance itself from this. the president has commented but white house officials are not giving us more details about this, and official after official does not want to talk about it. so it makes it very, very complex. part of why this is important, is because of course, ukraine had part of its territory,

crimea annexed by russia, several years ago. and so they have always played, in the last several years of our foreign policy, a very critical space. and of course, when russia is involved in the trump era, that is also important. and the u.s. has provided military aid. now, the new reporting says that the president did not specifically speak of this military aid, but that military aid was delayed, and there are questions about why was it delayed. it has now been released. but there is the idea of could the ukrainian leader have heard that this was something that could have been escape, if you will, that ukraine had a lot riding on this, if that first conversation with president trump, knowing that that military aid was on the line, even though it may not have been explicitly talked about as the new reporting suggests. dara? >> a lot to unravel there. thank you very much for those details.

kelly o'donnell, thank you. >> let's discuss with katie, and jonathan allen who covers national politics for national news. jonathan, i want to start with you. you wondered on twitter, how could the president know that the whistleblower was partisan, as he says on twitter. and now he is not looking at the whistleblower complaint. what gives here? >> as with any story of this nature, we are still finding out details. a lot of great work done by our colleagues at "the new york times" and "the wall street journal" and the "washington post" and others, so i think there are three noteworthy things here. number one, there is a whistleblower who saw something or heard something that he or she thought was important enough to blow the whistle. urgent enough to blow the whistle. number two, the intelligence community inspector general and the head of the intelligence community, director of national intelligence, the folks over there, thought that this was important enough that congress had a right to see it, that it was a matter of such significance that congress, that

basically, it was triggered by that law that allows congress to see, it and number three, the justice department has decided through the office of legal counsel, that it's dangerous enough for the president, or for the country, that congress shouldn't see it. and at the same time, the president is now bashing the whistleblower whom he claims not to know, but knows is a partisan hack, so what we're watching unfold in realtime, it appears is the administration fighting itself over how much to protect the president from his own conversation. >> and i want to add to what jonathan said here, if the president's call is totally appropriate, as he claims, why not release the transcript of the call, if it exist, or the whistleblower complaint there, and just end the speculation? >> that's a great question. i think that's what the congressional inquiry going into this is going to be looking at. the president has and his administration has been pushing

against investigations especially congressional inquiries for some time now going back it the mueller report. i don't see any difference coming with this new allegation and this new scandal that has come out through the administration what we're seeing is that trump and his supporters and his allies are going to try to bar the president from any conflicts that may arise in from this new scandal and what we watch out for is what congress can do, considering that they haven't been given access to contents of the complaint, and then there has been pushing back from actual officials, who are not willing to hand over that information. >> and more than a month before president trump had the call with the ukrainian president, he told abc news this about whether his re-election campaign should accept foreign offers of information on his opponents. let's listen. >> i think you might want to listen. there's nothing wrong with listening. >> you want that kind of interference in our elections? >> it's not an interference. they have information. i think i'd take it. if i thought there was something

wrong, i would go maybe to the fbi. it's call opo research. >> jonathan, how do the fact that he is now president trump and not candidate trump complicate members for the president in regards to just listening to foreign entities? >> i'm not sure if it does complicate them. it seems from his perspective, it facilitates things, that he is the president of the united states, he has a vast spy network at his disposal, he has the vast resources of the u.s. government, including the money that it provides in foreign aid to other countries to use as leverage. he has an entire political party under his thumb, essentially. a quiet senate. and the majority leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell, he has supreme court justices that he's appointed. i'm not sure at all that it complicates matters at all that he is president. the only single complication for him could be that if he acts in

ways that are inconsistent with the constitution, the senior abuses of power, that he could be impeached bit house of representatives, it is likely that that would fail, in the senate, and the other complication is the voters could decide that they believe he is abusing powers and ways that should provide them with incentive to remove him from office by election in 2020. but he's basically set himself up in a situation where the justice department has decided he cannot be prosecuted. and he has enough votes in the united states senate to block himself from being removed from office through impeachment and removal in that process. so again, i'm not sure that he views any of this as a complication but more the presidency having facilitated his ability to use power and leverage to help himself. >> and i want to read a quote from trump loyalists, republican congressman mark meadow, he tells the "washington post," quote, if there's wrongdoing, certainly we need to look at it,

but my understanding of what took place is just another version of russia collusion, russia gate 2.0. kadia, is that how trump loyalists are expected to spin this narrative? >> i think that is what is going on. we definitely see that defense of the president coming through, another witch hunt, which is deemed to what the president is undergoing since he came into office. what we're going to push to see, as reporters and journalist, is the contents of the complaint and whether congress can actually act on investigating it through the fullest extent of their power. even as we saw saw and jonathan pointed out there are so many ways that the president has been protected considering the systems in place to protect him. so we can't really expect too much coming out of it. what we can do is really look into what this might mean for voters going into 2020, if that changes anything at all. >> and next week, the ukrainian president is expected to meet with president trump on the sidelines of the united nations

general assembly. and the acting director of national intelligence is set to testify before the house intelligence committee. jonathan, how do you expect all of this to come to a head? >> i expect the acting director of national intelligence to be put in a very uncomfortable position, which is the director of national intelligence is likely to be put in a position of explaining why it is congress doesn't have a right to information that the law says congress has a right to. and you know, and also that the intelligence community apparently believes congress has a right to. so the answer is going to be that the justice department doesn't believe it has a right to that information. and this basically again has parts of the administration fighting itself over what to reveal about president trump, how much to protect the president, and what the reasoning for that is. because it's not at all clear why the congress shouldn't have

information pertaining to calls about ukraine, and u.s. policy. ukraine, other than the prospect that the president might have done something that might be considered illegal if the justice department didn't take the position that the president can't commit any crime. >> certainly an interesting week ahead. kadia tubman and jonathan allen, thank you very much for joining us on this saturday morning. great to have you. president trump's decision to send more troops to saudi arabia is, this what he meant by locked and loaded? >> when i was running, everybody said oh, he's going to get into war, he's going to get into war, he's going to blow everybody up, he is going to get into war. >> into war. >> i am royalty of , raise your steins to the king of speed. we're pretty different. we're all unique in our own ways. somos muy diferentes. muy diferentes. (vo) verizon knows everyone in your family is different. there are so many of us doing so many different things. (vo) that's why verizon lets everyone

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the president's attorney rudy giuliani this week is admitting to asking ukraine to investigate his client's potential 2020 political opponent. take a listen. >> did you ask ukraine to investigate joe biden. >> no, actually i didn't. >> you never asked anything about hunter biden, you never asked anything about joe biden. >> the only thing i asked about joe biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that, who was appointed dismissed the case against -- >> so you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden. >> of course you did. >> you just said you didn't. >> and you want to cover some ridiculous charge that i urged the ukrainian government to investigate corruption. well, i did, and i'm proud of it. >> this comes after both "the new york times" and "washington post" reported the president, in a phone call with the ukraine president, urged an

investigation into joe biden's son. "the wall street journal" adding, president trump pressured his ukrainian counter part to open an investigation eight times. joining me now is msnbc legal contributor katie fang, good morning, and if what is reported here is accurate, did this actually violate credible criminal law? >> sure, you can start with a number of them, interfacing with a foreign country for the purposes of trying to influence the outcome of a political outcome, gosh that sounds familiar, didn't we just deal that w-that in 2016, wasn't that the basis of the mueller report, despite trump surrogates, including rudy giuliani saying no obstruction, no collusion, we know that is not the truth. and rudy giuliani in his role is acts as personal counsel to donald trump. and rudy giuliani, if he is a lawyer, and i say the word if, if he is a lawyer, he's got ethical and professional obligations that he has to meet,

including not violating the law. so rudy giuliani, he's being sent as an emissary, and having meetings with the aides to president zelenski and saying to this aide, your country owes it us to, us being the united states, no, us being donald trump and so if you want to be able to connect the dots, it is really very obvious $250 million in aid being withheld and then the suggestion, if not the outright statement by donald trump, allegedly eight different times in the call that they need to investigate hunter biden. i don't think you need to have a law degree to be able to put that in front of a jury. so at a minimum, congress should look at whether or not there has been high crimes and misdemeanors committed by donald trump. >> katie, one point, they did say there was no quid pro quo here, nothing about that $250,000. >> who said there is no quid pro quo given? that's at issue. right?

and that's why you need to investigate it. who said it didn't happen? clearly, if you're in the cross-hairs of an investigation, congressional, federal, prosecutors office, you want to deny that, if you are, you know, the target of the investigation. and so the fact that a whistleblower who by the way has federal law protections to be able to come forward and make statements and allegations, and be credibly protected, the fact that this process or this channel or procedure was followed by this whistleblower, and in the end, we don't have the type of transparency that the law provides to be able to investigation, defeats the purpose. dara, i would offer the analogy, if i had an allegation of some type of harassment happening in the workplace, there is a process i have to make that claim. and that's exactly what has happened. the whistleblower has come forward, saying this has happened, this is wrong, and now the investigation is being stymied, by the people that the allegations are directed towards. >> and nbc news national security analyst, laid out three underlying crimes from this. let's take a listen.

>> page three crimes here. one is extortion by the president. which is basically using a threat, a threat of withholding aid to obtain something of value. the second crime is conspiracy to engage in extortion between the president and rudy giuliani. and third crime is conspiracy to violate federal election law between the president and rudy giuliani to obtain foreign interference in the united states election. >> katie do you agree with ha? could bribery be thrown into that mix? >> you know, i think all of those things from jeremy are applicable. bribery yes, could be in there. bribery is a kissing cousin for the extortion. there are all sorts of crimes that could be in that. but most importantly, in order to be able to see, to be able to prove that there is enough probable cause to bring these charges, you need to have all of the underlying facts and therein lies the problem, dara. if you're in the able to fully investigate and be able to, in a

completely wholesome way determine whether or not there has been a violation of federal statutes, then you will never be able to show the, put the sunshine, the disin fen fect act, to what it could be. it should be subject to the oval office and subject to investigation and there is the memo, when it dealt time and time again with the mueller report. we'll see where it goes. >> connect the dots. where it ends up. kat katie phang, thank you very much. >> thank you. sending more troops to saudi arabia, will that solve the standoff with iran? coming up next. >> tefying moments for a man wh drefb his suv into a chicago mall. drefb his suv into a chicago mall

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people are very surprised and many people are extremely happy. >> joining me now, christopher diggy, world news editor with the daily beast, and msnbc contributor, christopher, your argument is this may be less to show strength and more the president seeing an offramp in iran's denial but now that the u.s. has used the toughest sanctions available and is deploying more troops to the middle east, what else is left, besides a military option? >> i think trump will avoid military action if at all possible and even if impossible, he doesn't want to go to war and while he says it is perfectly easy for him to hit 15 different sites in iran, yes, easy for him. it wouldn't be easy for saudi arabia, the gulf states, which would bear the brunt of any kind of iranian retaliation and we've already seen that they are woefully undefended. we are sending a few hun

americans to saudi arabia, to help the apparently not terribly competent saudis, deal with their air defense, and missile defense systems. but in fact, it is not just a question of defending the exo skeleton of the oil industry, which is spread all over the map, it is also a question of defending things like desal nation plants. saudi arabia gets its water through desalination, very easy for iranians to hit, and the saudis are vulnerable, trump knows it and the iranians were careful in had this hit, i don't doubt they were behind, it they were very careful not to kill anybody. don't you think it is amazing that they created this kind of incredible conflagration last saturday morning, and didn't kill anybody? that was quite intentional. because blood is not something you can walk back very easily in the middle east or anywhere else. >> and christopher, do you see president trump taking responsibility for his own actions, including dropping out

of the iran deal, and that may have led iran to retaliate? >> well, of course, it led iran to retaliate. as we've said, many times, trump, his favorite weapon is the dollar. the weaponized dollar. now he has turned that up to max, right? he really wants to starve iran as much as possible. okay. what's iran supposed to do. surrender? no, it's not going to surrender. he may want to give it, in fact, i think he is trying to give it a way out by talking to him, but it is not going to go farther or significantly farther than the jcpao, the joint comprehensive plan of action that limited its nuclear development before, under president obama. this is one of these cases where he's created a crisis, and if he resolves the crisis, that he created, it will wind up looking very much like whatever existed before. >> christopher, the "washington post" reports that trump is caught between a political

imperative to con front iran, to please republican supporters and his only political instincts of foreign intervention and cutting a deal. does this give iran the upper hand in even these negotiations? >> iran is suffering economically but yes, it does give iran certain leverage. this was the point of this strike on the saudi oil facilities and the saudi oil field. it was to remind the united states and especially to remind the bellicose crown prince of saudi arabia, just how vulnerable saudi arabia is. this is not about the major deployment that would be necessary by iran to close the strait of hormuz, which is what everybody used to talk about, this is about a direct attack on the achilles heel of the saudi oil industry. it cut off 5% of the world's oil supplies. and even if those are up and running in a few week, the threat will remain that saudi could just wipe out, have its

infrastructure wiped out, to a major degree, any time the iranians decide to go full bore. >> president trump may be considering a meeting with the iranian president at the u.n. next week, and "time" magazine says it might be a moment of stage craft when the french president is talking to rouhani and impromptu encouragement to join them. does this sound plausible to you? >> yes, it does sound plausible. i'm not sure it will happen but i don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility. trump does want a way out. it is typical, he creates a crisis and wants to resolve the crisis that he created. and macron sees in the iranian issue a little wedge into the trump administration. you know, macron oddly enough has a very good personal relationship with trump. and he's trying to use that relationship to calm the waters with iran and it find a way out of this trump-created crisis.

>> given all we know about this, what is your best guess on how this impasse gets resolved? >> my best guess is if it is going to be resolved, it will be resolved by, or begin to be resolved by meeting between trump and rouhani, the iranian president. i think that that is probably the best way to go at this point. and the iranians probably think it is the best way to go, too, looking at the record of trump's meetings with kim jong-un, where the meetings get a lot of play, things get calmed down, and kim jong-un hasn't given up anything. >> christopher dicky in paris for us, thank you. always a pleasure to have you on a saturday morning. well, state fair food and politics. why today's record-breaking crowds at the iowa steak fry has so much potential for democratic candidates in a race still packed with undecided voters. tes

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in power, politics and paychecks, a dim view of congress emerging from a new pew research survey on ethics. 81% of americans surveyed believe members of congress be haven unethically, either all, most, or some of the time. that is the worst rating followed by 77% who think the same with tech industry leaders. 59% believe about religious leaders. a new gallup poll shows concern

about the economy. the index is slump together lowest level since january's government shutdown. 48% think the economy is getting worse. while 46% say it is getting better. and on the expectations of a possible recession in the near future, americans are almost evenly divided. new construction is soaring. the commerce department reporting a 12% increase in housing starts last month. that's the fastest rate since 2007. well, a number of people are expected today in iowa to see at least 17 democratic presidential candidates make their pitches to voters. more than 11,000 have bought tickets to the annual iowa steak fry, and the crucial block of voters, they remain undecided. abc's ron hilliard explains why today's event could make a difference in the race. >> good morning, from iowa, where as one campaign official put it to me, this is the beginning of the fourth quarter.

135 days away. 135 days away. from the iowa caucus. and that's of course the first voting state in the democratic primary process. today, in des moines, 17 of the remaining democratic presidential candidates will all be descending on the county steak fry. this is where the candidates will come and flip steaks and grill them and address what is expected to be more than 1,000 democratic caucus-goers here. this is really the time in which these candidates begin to try to nail down who is actually going to come out and support them in the iowa caucus. there is the nbc news "the wall street journal" approximately released this week that shows nationwide 9% of democratic voters say they have firmly made up their minsd. that means that 91% of democratic voters are still undecided about who they are going to show up to and cast their ballot at, for that primary. you're looking at the reality of what is essentially joe biden, bernie sander, and elizabeth warren.

really kind of solidifying themselves as the top three candidates in this race. but if you're looking at the other candidates, look, kamala harris, the nbc news "the wall street journal" poll shows her at 5% nationwide. and the support right now. but at the same time, the candidate announced this week that she is doubling her staff here in iowa, doubling it to 135 staffers here in the hawk eye state, and she said that she plans to essentially move to iowa, spend about half of october, here in the state, going county to county, and the question for these candidates is, at what point do you really begin to solidify that support, and this is go time. not only for the top three, four, five, but the bottom tier rung, they have had the chance now over the course of three debates to make their case to millions of democratic voters, but you got to at some point begin to turn that into concrete support, and that's where today, in iowa, this is really kind of their opportunity to show what kind of organizing grass roots activist effort they, have and

convince iowa that they are serious and able to make a play come the iowa caucus just four months from now. >> certainly a big day ahead. thank you. whistle stop. why is the white house stonewalling when it comes to his phone call with the president of the ukraine? will the public ever get to see the transcript? and what are the implications? >> for national hispanic heritage month, nbc latino is featuring 20 achievers from celebrities to ceos and activists who use their voice, talent and passion, to empower the latino community. check out who made the list, go to nbcnews.com/latino. f racing, raise your steins to the king of speed.

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i am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. raise your steins to the king of speed. the inspector general told us this was a series of events. he said this was an extremely important function that the dni has, a responsibility to the american people. he said he corroborated it. so it was extraordinarily important. the abuses haven't stopped. a president who has never been held accountable will not act in an accountable fashion unless we do something. >> democratic congressman mike quigley, a member of the intelligence committee on the

whistleblower complaint shortly after the "the wall street journal" explosive new report. it says in part, president trump in a july phone call repeatedly pressured the president of ukraine to investigate joe biden's son, according to people familiar with the matter. joining me now is democratic antoine seawright, former senior adviser to hillary clinton's campaign in south carolina, and attorney and conservative talk show host shondell summer. great to have you both this morning. >> good morning. >> let's talk about these implications for president trump, for congress, and for the country. how bad are these revelations, if true? >> oh, they're bad. but let me be crystal clear about a few things. one, if you're upset about this and you did anything other than vote for 2016 hillary clinton, you bear some responsibility. this is the leader of the free world, the leader of the united states, who has had love letters with kim jong-un and foot sy

with putin and now asking a foreign power to give dirt to his political adversary, and if this was barack obama, the republicans would be going off the cliff crazy right now. it sets a very dangerous precedent. and the other thing about this, he is trying to paint the whistleblower, the person who wants to point this out, as a partisan hack. how does president trump know what the politics of the person who just wants to do what is in the best interest of the country is? that's the scary part. i'm thankful that my leader, jim clyburn, congressman from south carolina and caucus leadership, passed hr-1 earlier this year to deal with election security, because the stakes are going to be high, and what we know is if we get in the way of this man, he will try it again in a general election. >> i want to turn to you. what is your assessment of how bad this is? >> good morning, d. dar ax. , darra. i think we need to wait until the facts are developed until we know l

the facts are developed until we know there's been no quid pro quo between the president investigating joe biden and a foreign aid, and there is no link. you have to have some kind of a suggestion that there is a tit for tat deal on the table. i don't think all of the facts have been developed yet. and there is nothing wrong with the foreign government to investigate someone. regardless of whether they're your political opponent. right now we have a situation where there has been some allegations that joe biden had some type of influence over ukraine, back during the days when he was vice president. and in fact, withheld aid from ukraine until he got what he wanted from the ukrainian

government, which is to fire their prosecutor. r prosecutor >> let's just say there is truth to these reports and the president who is asking a foreign leader for favors to investigate, his political rival's son. >> to dig up dirt. call it what it is. dig up dirt. >> is there call for an impeachment there? >> these are troubling allegations, no doubt. but unless you can tie it to some kind of a promise, that if you do this for me, i'll do this for you, i don't think it is cause for impeachment. there is nothing wrong with any president going to a foreign government and saying, we want you to -- >> are you crazy? >> corruption in your country. we want you to deal with human right abuses. we certainly go to china all the time and say we don't like your human right abuses. but tying it to some type of aid or some type of action against a

political opponent could be troubling, no question about it. but so far -- >> can i respond? >> antjuan? >> yes. number one, the "washington post" has fact checked that joe bidedon not do anything wrong. number two, you are running around the biggest threat of hypocrisy i've ever seen in my life. when you say there's nothing wrong with the leader of the free world asking a foreign government to dig up dirt on his political opponent. can you imagine what you would be saying right now if that was a democratic president or leader doing the same thing? number three, this is the same game and full of bs that you all played when russia hacked into our elections and donald trump jr. went into trump tower and met with russians to talk about digging up dirt on hillary clinton. and yet, you want to press, ignore the button on this and i have said it before, and say it again, it sets a dangerous

precedent how we do elections and the political process in this country. so i hope that republicans will not make this an issue. >> in this situation, you don't want them to go into looking into these allegations against joe biden because they're very similar to what -- >> they did already. they did already. >> they're similar to president trump. he asked the ukraine government to fire their prosecutor and withheld aid until they did. >> fact check. that's been fact checked. it's not true. eight times donald trump pressed the ukraine leader to dig up dirt on his political opponent. i would say until i'm blue in the face. it is crazy for to you say on a saturday morning there is nothing wrong with that. it's ukraine tomorrow. it could be russia against next week and you will all ukraine t and russia next weeken. and then you come back and say nothing happened and they hacked our elections. >> antoine, hold on, i want to get to what house speaker nancy pelosi said. she's been rather cautious about this. so far she said in a statement that the reports say quote they

raise grave urgent concerns for our national security but she didn't give any sign that this will change her calculations around impeachment. so how damaging could it be for the democrats if this doesn't shift the calculus of impeachment? >> i think democrats have, i've always taken my cue from my leader, whip clyburn, i think we have to be measured on these things when it comes to impeachment. i think democrats have to investigate and legislate as they have been doing and when we gather all the facts and put everything in order. then we make the case to the american people. otherwise, we will just be, we will be noise in a loud arena and that's not healthy for a short-and long-term in my humble opinion. >> this could be cleared up quickly if intel officials released the complaint to congress. shouldn't they do that if they don't see a "there" there? >> he think they will eventually release the report to congress. i don't see any way around it. that's their obligation.

and the question is, whether or not all of this bally-hooing about he asked for this, he asked for that, is going to amount to anything. sometimes when you build something up and then it doesn't pan out, it's very disappointing for the democrats. what you have right now is this growing sense that president trump is invincible. that you can throw anything at him and he's going to bat it down. and he seems to do that repeatedly, time after time. so what the democrats are afraid of, is that this is just one more time where this is not going to pan out for them and they're not going to be able to impeach him and they're too close to the election. the best thing i think they can hope from this is that it, it is somehow the american people who stand up and say -- we can't take any more of this. >> chandelle summer thank you so much and antoine seeray thank you so much. the fight over the president's tax returns as a federal judge sides with his campaign on the latest twist in the battle.

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