and power than he did about -- >> his own family. that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm philip mena in new york. it is 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. here's what's happening. new attacks. the president and joe biden go after each other over the trump phone call. where this fight is headed. a striking poll. some call it the gold standard where the candidates stand in iowa. two states get bad economic news. fresh insight into the president's aborted attack on iran. we begin with this showdown between president trump and former vice president joe biden over the president reportedly

pressuring in a phone call the ukrainian leader to investigate biden's son. biden and trump going after each other on twitter in what's becoming -- both adopting a similar attack style, highly edited videos of news footage to undermine each other. here's some of that. >> that's a conflict of interest. things joe biden has to answer for. >> the president of the united states using his power to go to a foreign government to get -- >> no reason to paiy hunter biden -- >> a claim that has been debunked. >> you can tell he's really scared of biden. biden adopting a stronger tone against the president. biden insisting, he never spoke to his son about his business dealings in ukraine while he was vice president. >> trump's doing this.

he knows i'll beat him like a drum. his usual abuse of power and element of presidency to try to do something to smear me. that's what this guy is. he abuses power everywhere he can and that he sees any threat to his staying in power. he'll do whatever he has to do. this crosses the line. >> a new reaction from ukraine's foreign minister. he says ukraine was not pressured during the call with president trump and that the conversation was friendly but included serious discussion. this week the spotlight is expected to intensify over the president's call and the whistleblower kplabt. on wednesday, president trump and his counterpart are expected to meet on the sidelines of the u.n. general assembly. on thursday, the acting director of national intelligence is set to testify. democrats want to grill him for blocking the whistleblower complaint. meanwhile, 2020 democrats are capitalizing on all of this. yesterday in the single largest

political event in iowa, 2020 democrats renewed their criticism of the president. listen to senator elizabeth warren. >> congress failed to act and now donald trump has shown that he believes he is above the law. he has solicited another foreign government to attack our election system. it is time for us to call out this illegal behavior and start impeachment proceedings right now. >> and a new poll in iowa on saturday shows a warren surge. she's first among likely caucus-goers. that's a seven-point bump from june. biden is second. bernie sanders in third place down five. in a few hours, they return to the campaign trail in iowa and other states, including pete buttigieg. today he will kick off his iowa

bus tour. that's four days in close quarters with reporters, all on the record. >> we're covering all this for you. first, let's dig deeper on the escalation of words between president trump and joe biden. joining me now emily noe and john -- good morning to you both. first of all, i want your takes on the trump versus biden thing. what do you make of this? this new tone from biden? how significant is this? >> there was a ramping up of his tone. he was initially tentative. he picked it up and broadened the attack. this could cut two ways for vice president biden. it escalates them and creates the one-on-one dynamic that his campaign really wants out of this democratic primary. makes him be a focal point of trump. they really think that that makes him seem like the nominee and puts the other democrats into the background. but it also really scrutinizes

what, places a greater scrutiny on what his dealings with ukraine were and pressured the prosecutor to step down, someone widely known as a corrupt official. a lot of his work, vice president -- it did include fighting corruption, but we don't know what that connection is between he and his son. >> joe, what do you think of this ramping up, the escalation of words here? >> it's evident that biden is very sensitive whenever his family becomes involved in political discussions. we could see by how heated he got yesterday when facing questions on that. he's saying no, the focus should be on trump. for what it's worth, there is no evidence that biden pressured the ukrainian government or the prosecutor involved in a probe into this ukrainian gas company that his son had involvement with. there's no evidence that he pressured the ukrainian

government to fire this prosecutor despite claims from trump. it really kind of shows, if biden becomes the nominee in 2020, how nasty this campaign could company. >> something emily alluded to. "the new york times" writing that the president's attacks on biden's son have given the one-on-one showdown that his campaign spent months trying to create. john, do you agree with that? what do you expect from biden from this point forward? >> sure. a lot of the candidates have avoided focusing solely on trump. they tried to make their campaigns about a single issue. some successful, others not so much. jay endsley was climate change. not anymore. from the get-go, it's been about trump. he launched a video about trump in charlottesville. this ramps it up. it's the one-on-one showdown. as emily alluded to, it's a about the of an uncomfortable situation. there could be more questions

on, well, what did you do as vice president while your son was working in ukraine? until we have more information, until the whistleblower complaint is released, until we see the transcript of this call, there's a lot of open questions. >> what is the biggest question in your mind still? >> the two documents that john alluded to that the vice president called for who shed a lot of light what the situation is. whether there was a quid pro quo. the call by -- also the full whistleblower complaint that they're keeping from congress at this point. you'll remember that the president did call the whistleblower partisan while admitting that he doesn't know who the whistleblower actually is. >> the "washington post" writes that -- revealed the president convinced of his own invincibility. emily, do you think that's so? >> this call came on the heels of testimony in front of

congress that sort of was a closing chapter of the full mueller investigation, the interference in the 2016 election. we have so many echoes of that whole saga and the president really not showing that he is afraid but mostly -- but more willing than ever to take help from a foreign power whether that means that he is abusing his power is another question entirely. whether he was holding that military to ukraine over the prime minister and wanted in exchange help combatting biden. these are open questions, very important questions. >> joe, what do you think of that, his claim of ins vince blt. given the progress torlak thereof that democrats in congress have been able to make. >> trump has been the teflon president. nothing has stuck to him. there's been scandal after scandal and somehow he's survived it all. i think under the influence of

attorney general barr, perhaps he has gained a perspective that he's a bit invincible because of barr's interpretation of executive authority or power. it's interesting. if trump did do this, it's a bold move. he's trying to pressure a foreign leader shortly after he's elected into getting dirt on a political opponent. it's pretty audacious. let's look at what senator elizabeth warren said. she wrote on twitter. by failing to act, congress is complicit in trump's latest attempt to solicit foreign interference to aid him in u.s. elections. what do you make of warren pressuring congress to impeach the president? how will that sit with the moderate voters, the ones who voted for him in 2016? >> this isn't new. she pressured congress to impeach him in april. we saw alexandria ocasio-cortez.

i don't know if you were up late. she was tweeting that congress, in a sense, is reneging on a duty by not launching impeachment proceedings. i think it could -- this situation really could put nancy pelosi in the hot seat a lot more in terms of pressure between some of the left wing members of the caucus and some of the more moderate democrats and some of the more experienced ones worried of the impact of impeachment in democrats chances in dividing voters. they know that the senate is controlled by republicans at the end of the day. even if they impeach trump, it's unlikely he'd be removed from office. >> emily, what do you think about senator warren's influence, especially that -- do you think it changes the influence in terms of recommending impeachment proceedings? >> absolutely. i think pelosi has been willing to take a step for impeachment. a lot might step up and heed the call. while we're speaking about

congress, it's important to keep an eye on the republican caucus, both the house and the senate have to say about the ordeal with the whistleblower and with ukraine. really, they haven't been ready criticizing the president or even questioning what he's been saying in the past couple days. >> want today go back to warren for a second. we took a look at the polls. she came in first among likely iowa caucus-goers. they caucus for sanders in 2016. what does that say to you, emily, is that more of an indictment on bernie sanders or is that up for warren? >> it could be a number of factors. warren from the start of his candidacy has focused her message on herself. not necessarily on trump all the time and definitely not on bernie sanders as some of her opponents. they have expectations, pointing to south carolina and the other states in the south where the black vote makes up bigger part

of the south. they might not do as well as anticipated in iowa and new hampshire. these are two states where we might see warren win ultimately as early as it is in the primary. >> john, what are your thoughts when you say that the numbers in the new poll among likely caucusgoers. >> some progressives appreciate what bernie sanders has done for the party in terms of pushing it left. but they like warren's more gentle approach. you know, bernie is the grumpy old man from brooklyn. shouting about the 1%. warren has a very academic approach to issues but is very good at making them -- watering them down so voters can understand complex issues. i'm not sure if it's an indictment of sanders, but it's certainly a sign that warren is

really moving up into the top tier as she has in recent months and weeks. she's going to pose a significant dhalening to sanders and biden. >> thanks for joining us this morning. to the white house now and kelly o'donnell. kelly, the president is heading to houston, texas this afternoon hosting india's prime minister at a major rally there. why texas? >> this will be an interesting and a different kind of experience because the president is not the main event. he will be leaving early this morning, in fact, phillip to head to texas for an event intended to sort of blend texas culture with the main event guest, which is india's prime minister. so they're calling it howdy mode i. the prime minister that renda. this is the buildup to the -- many national leaders are coming to the united states. the meetings are new york. but many spend additional time in the united states and he will

be doing that. he's already in texas and conducting meetings that relate to trade. president trump and prime minister have what you might call a bromance. they have a close relationship. there have been some tensions between the u.s. and india in matters of trade and a lot of talk about trying to resolve some of those things with the potential for perhaps an announcement or some sort of a joint appearance that could be good headlines for both of them. they have some similar politics, if you will, in that prime minister mody talked about make things in india and the president likes to talk about making america great again. this will be a large-scale rally in texas for the prime minister and many indian americans will be in attendance. it's been branded that way. and president trump will be speaking there today before he then goes off to ohio for a separate event and by the night's end, he will be back in new york, a place that, of

course, is his hometown. he rarely is in new york city because of all the security issues. but around the united nations time, he does return to his trump tower home. of course, this comes at a time when his interactions with foreign leaders are under extreme scrutiny with the call with ukraine that you've been talking about and of course, with a number of foreign policy issues on the front burner, whether it's iran, whether it's his decision to send additional troops to the middle east because of iran's attack on the saudi oil facility. so there's a lot happening here. the relationship with india is friendly. but this is a very different kind of event coming up in texas. phillip? >> no leisurely sunday for the president. kelly o donn'donnell. the possibility that rudy giuliani could be facing charges. e facing charges. i am royalty of racing,

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new concerns today after new reports allege the president pressured the ukrainian president to investigate a possible political opponent ahead of 2020. the "washington post" in a new article says the allegation reveals the president is, quote, convinced of his own invinceability and his cavalier attitude about legal limits on his conduct. joining me now our legal analyst for msnbc. do you agree with that tape there from the "washington post"? the president does have a lot of latitude? what are the clear limits? >> it's really -- something that

reasonable minds could almost disagree on. on the one hand, you could argue that the president has almost complete authority over international relations so that a communication with a foreign head of state is -- he's almost unlimited in his power, but on the other hand, if for example there was the withholding of a multimillion dollar aid package to ukraine and that was dangled in front of them as a sort of inducement, that is almost exactly the kind of corruption that article 2 and the impeachment clauses contemplated. consider that the impeachable offenses, the two examples we get in the constitution aren't related to murder or theft. they're corruption crimes. the framers were obsessed with corruption. and so this is exactly the kind of, i guess you could say, corrupt act, if true that the framers would have wanted to see an impeachment. yet, on the other hand, they gave the president this almost plenary authority to conduct

international affairs. the "wall street journal" reports that the call never mentioned a provision of aid. frank did he glues i and legal analyst had a very different take on whether a quid pro quo was different. >> frankly, this is very mob-like. it's all tied together and that was made clear to ukraine. it didn't have to be in one conversation. it's clear that the review of the aid to ukraine was tied to whether or not they complied with this. it can be an implicit quid pro quo. i think here it's pretty explicit. >> it doesn't have to be a direct cited quid pro quo. it could be inferred, it could be implied by trump and inferred by the ukrainian. that's a criminal problem that the president is facing. >> so could that case be argued, that it wasn't directly offered in a conversation? could it be charged as one snoo. >> i've defended these cases.

the individual making the promise doesn't actually have to be the two -- doesn't have to be the two parties that receive something for something else. if for example, you give a country aid and then a relative or friend happens to get a bag of money, that would fit within quit pro quo. that's right. quid pro quo is so broadly defined as most criminal defendants are dismayed to find out that virtually any kind of benefit in exchange for another benefit, however tangential ally related, is going to satisfy the definition. also made a point of the severity of how damaging to national security. >> let's not forget one of the key people who knows exactly what happened in that conversation. that's the president of ukraine. at any time now the president of ukraine, because he now owns our president, can come out and give us the dirt, the details, "the

skinny" on a law that the president may have violated. >> the details are never released by the ukrainian government in a complaint. they're not released to congress. is president trump legally compromised and subject to manipulation himself? >> on the one hand, you're right. you have a head of state, another country that has information that the rest of the american public or even congress does not have access to. that could create a situation where a president is subject to influence. but on the other hand, even if never disclosed, there were certainly other parties listening in on the american side. so it's not as if ukraine has exclusive access to this information. at the same time, this could be something that they could dangle in front of the president or the white house or the executive branch. >> i want to talk now about rudy giuliani. how exposed it he now? he admitted he did ask ukraine to investigate the bidens.

are there any laws against that, especially? >> it seems to me that denied it and within seconds he actually admitted it. i think that is problematic by itself. having an internal contradiction in the span of under a minute it seemed to me. remember that rudy giuliani may not enjoy the same protections, privileges and i mmunities that the head of the executive branch. some are exclusive to the president and not those within the executive branch and his immediate aides. the real questions what is the distance in terms of aide manship between rudy giuliani and the president. that will tell us how far and to what degree any i mmunity or privilege extends to giuliani. on the other hand, another approach could be that rudy giuliani is only loosely associated with the president. what he says as a private

citizen on a show isn't to be taken that seriously. i wouldn't be surprised if you heard that argument at some point. >> his personal lawyer in an official capacity. thank you for helping us break that down this morning. iran's president is speaking out as tensions with the u.s. increase. is military conflict inevitable? that's next.

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a look at the morning headlines. protests in hong kong turning violent again this morning as police fired tear gas into crowds of pro-democracy demonstrators this weekend. it came after protesters threw petro bombs toward a police line. it's the latest in the protests that have been happening for six months now. five people dead after tropical storm imelda. it dumped more than 40 inches of rain near the louisiana border. crews worked to rescue people trapped by high water. floodwaters damaged at least 800 houses and businesses. greek police have arrested a suspect in the 1985 hijacking of a twa flight that killed an american. the 65-year-old lebanese man was arrested this week on.

hijackers took control of the plane in 1985 after it took off from athens, shooting and killing a u.s. navy diver and taking the other 146 passengers and crew hostage for days. new today, iran's president ratcheting up the rhetoric ahead of his trip tomorrow to the u.n. general assembly in new york. this morning, he criticized the president of foreign forces in the persian gulf after president trump -- instead of taking a military strike on iranian targets. >> when i was running, everybody said, oh, he's going to get into war, he's going to get into war. he's going to blow everybody up, he's going to get into war. but i'm not looking to do that. >> joining me now, bobby ghosh, opinion columnist and member of editorial board at bloomberg. has the president exhausted his options with the latest choices. he will be forced into some sort of military strike if another act of aggression is committed

in the gulf, will his hand be forced this then? >> there's only so much you can do with sanctions. but no, i don't think his hands are limited. what he needs to do is rally a global response. we have to remember that these attacks on the saudi oil installations are not just a matter of attacking saudi target. these are oil installations that are vital to the global economy. saudi arabia is the biggest supplier of oil. when something like this happens, oil prices go up at the pump from beijing to boca raton. this is a global problem and the president can and really should be rallying a global response to it. the united nations general assembly is in session in his hometown. this is a good opportunity for him to try to get the security council involved, get other players and actors involved to put more pressure on iran. this can't only be trump versus iran or the united states versus iran.

this needs a bigger team on his side. "the new york times" reports on how close president trump came to striking iran after the attack on an unmanned u.s. drone back in june. he called it off without consulting vice president pence, secretary pompeo or adviser bolton, who is now gone. how much longer can the president hold off these talks? >> i think he's fired both of them. that is a pretty dramatic demonstration in addition to the words he said. he does not want to go to war. he has an election next year. if he said he is the man who promised no more war and promised to draw dawn and reduce the american footprint, he does not want to go to war. but if the iranians keep provoking, the fear is he might stumble into one. we might find ourselves in the middle of a shooting match without any clarity about why we're there. that's the worst possible

outcome. >> that brings us to the "washington post" editorial board raising questions saying should the u.s. put troops, their lives on the line for saudi arabia? troops are among the most vulnerable in u.s. targets in that region. the president has said that the u.s. shouldn't be the world's police. why is he willing to put young american lives at risk? >> that's a question that he doesn't seem to be able to articulate. saudi arabia is -- the united states is a huge part of the global economy. oechb though the united states doesn't necessarily need oil from saudi arabia, the u.s. is a large producer itself. the price of oil matters and the price of oil is to a substantial degree determined by what happens in saudi arabia. there is a strong economic reason for an american role there, for a global role in trying to stop iran's aggressive behavior. the trouble is, if the president is unable to explain this to the

american people. it's not an easy call to make. it's an emotional thing, putting american bodies, american soldiers in the line of fire, effectively. that's why, as i said, it would look better. it would be be better if this were a more united international response than just the united states going alone. >> if it comes to fruition, "time" magazine reported that trump mied meet rouhani on the sidelines, probably in a moment of stage craft involving the french president. where is the smart money, on this meeting happening or not happening? >> trump has said repeatedly he wants the meeting to happen and rouhani doesn't want to. his boss, the grand supreme leader of iran has given, as far as we can tell, explicit instructions for the meeting not to take place. ironically, this will be bad for r rouhani, shaking trump's hand or having a conversation with him

at the united nations will not look good for him. we talked about hawks in the white house. there are a lot of hawks in tehran, iran. they do not want to see their president having a conversation with the man they side as their greatest -- identify as their greatest enemy. if trump were to surprise r rouhani, i don't think you'll see broad smiles. >> your money is on no meeting there. joining the indian prime minister at a rally in houston where thousands are expected to gather. is the president using a foreign leader for his own re-election theater? >> anything the president does between now and the election next year is going to have a political flavor and compared with calling out the president with ukraine and asking for dirt on the biden, this is a very small matter. i'm also, to be honest, skeptical that trump would be able to get a lot of indian

votes. mody is popular with indian americans. but they did not vote for trump in very large numbers and the sheer numbers doesn't mean they're going to move the needle on trump's election prospects. he seems to genuinely like mody. they have strong authoritarian tendencies, they are sort of majority a-- in the trumpian world, it's harley davidsonly the most egregious thing he would have done this week even. >> for your insights, we appreciate it, bobby ghosh. trump versus biden. is biden fighting fire with fire? that's next. raise your steins to the king of speed.

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former vice president joe biden is punching back after president trump tries to shift the focus to him and away from the whistleblower complaint. president trump tweeted new attacks on biden yesterday. here's a part of biden's fiery response. >> the house should investigate. the house should investigate this. this appears to be an overwhelming abuse of power. to get on the phone with a foreign leader who is looking for help from the united states and asks about me and imply things, if that's what happened. that appears to be what

happened. we know that's what giuliani did. this is outrageous. you have never seen anything like this from any president. >> joining me now to discuss this. progressive commentator and radio talk show host rashad richie and ned ryan, former speech writer for president george w. bush. good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> i'll start with you rashad. did biden accomplish what he needed to with that response yesterday? >> i think he did. he needed to be forceful and aggressive. let's be honest, phillip, we all know trump did it. let's look at the facts. you have an intelligence officer making a complaint against the united states president. you do not see the current president of the ukraine saying it did not happen. you only have the foreign minister saying he doesn't think there was any pressure, but even the foreign minister of the ukraine is not saying that the

conversation did not happen. so if the conversation happened, as most of us know it did, then that means the current president of the united states is actively conspiring with a foreign entity in order to rig an election in the united states of america. not only is that problematic, some would argue that is treason against our democracy. >> all right. ned, you're shaking your head there. i won't ask the question. you can respond to what rashad said. >> here we go again, phillip. the whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the actual communication. we have no proof that there was ever any actual quit pro quo mentioned from trump. if you don't investigate biden, i'll withhold this quarter billion in military aid. there's absolutely no proof of that. i have to tell you, there are a couple of things. spare me the moral lectures from the left about being concerned about foreign sources because people don't want to talk about the dnc soliciting for dirt on

manafort and the fact that they used an ex british spy to create a bogus dossier to take out trump in 2016. i have to tell you, phillip, the fact of the matter, this is yet again going to the court of public opinion. the person lied about for 2 1/2 years on the bogus russian collusion fairytale and exonerated by mueller or the fact that you have biden on tape bragging about the fact that he threatened the ukrainians if they did not fire this prosecutor, he would withhold a billion dollar in foreign aid. in the court of public opinion, this is problematic for joe biden. >> phillip, let me insert something. >> sure. >> here's the quick way to take it out of the court of public opinion. tell the president of the united states to declassify the transcript. now if there's nothing there, we can all read it, we can all listen to it and we can all say,

you know what, the president of the united states did nothing improper. one simple signature because he likes to sign stuff, one simple signature would allow us a preview into what the conversation was about. >> tell you what, rashad, i would say fine, let's do that. let's declassify everything over the last 2 1/2 years over the bogus russian collusion investigation andlet have that conversation. i would love to see that happen. i'm actually agreeing with you. i would like to trump take this, declassify this and let's have that conversation. i think there's a lot going on that the american people actually should be able to see and understand what has taken place over the last 2 1/2 years. i have to tell you, phillip, again, going into the voters in 2020, i don't think this will be an issue at all. you look at where trump is right now in the polls, i think i saw a poll of 52% where obama was 46% at this point .

it has not stopped him or slowed him at all with the voters, especially in the rust belt. i have to tell you again, i don't think joe biden will actually be the nominee. we're just getting into the heat of the democratic primary season, but if he is, this will become an issue with ukraine and i think hunter biden's relationship with the bank of china will become an issue should joe biden be the candidate. >> never polled over 50% since becoming president of the united states. the only president that holds that distinction tings by the way. how will they handle trump's tactics as he's been diverting the attention away -- >> they need to know how he's coming. trump will always do the deflect, the aggression and the attack. he will always operate that way. the reason why he's doing this again, joe biden, is because he looks at him as a threat. believe me, if he looked at

senator warren or sanders as a threat, he would actively do the same thing against them. so the best thing democrats can do is take a lesson out of the book of tactics and understand that this is the president's game plan when coming against him. right now, joe biden is the did he facto champion to go against the president of the united states. that could change based on the polling data. if that does change, trump and his surrogates will come after the proposed front-runner in the democratic primary. >> talking about that ukrainian call, ned, if we were talking about a democratic president who made the call, reportedly pressuring a foreign leader, don't you think the republicans would be up in arms about this? >> i mean, again, i would remind you of the last couple of years we've seen this from the democrats and we have been irritated. i have to tell you, phillip, this is a troubling precedent.

any president regardless of republican or democrat should have wide leeway. you can't have conversations with foreign leaders, the president can't and all of a sudden have all of these conversation being released to the public. so i actually go down the path of this, phillip. regardless, republican or democrat, the president, the executive has to have wide leeway in having conversations with foreign leaders an not have the concern that somehow those conversations westbound leaked to the public. if it was a democratic president having a conversation, that's fine, they should be allowed to have wide leeway as much as possible. as free a conversation as possible. >> va'a ra'shad, do you believe ned when he says that. if a democratic president is accused of this, will it be the same leeway? >> hell no, i don't believe ned at all. we're talking about joe biden having an inappropriate conversation with a foreign leader as the genesis for this

entire complaint. here's the bottom line. yes, presidents can talk to foreign leaders, but should presidents be involved in creating a dilemma where basically a foreign leader, a new president has to either do the political bidding of the president of the united states or they lose actual money in aid from the united states? that is more than inappropriate. this is impeachable. >> but that never happened. phillip, one last thing. >> how do you know it never happened? >> let me say one last thing. the thing that's not a rule of being a reporter. how did rudy giuliani begin this conversation. because of the state department. the state department facilitated this conversation in july. go look at john solomon's report on the hill on friday. i will say this. we have absolutely no proof, again, because the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of the actual communications that there was ever quid pro quo. in regards to biden, he said it

publicly on video, if you don't fire this prosecutor we'll withhold a billion dollars. that's when it's a public debate. >> ned ryan, rashad richey. always fiery. thank you. >> the state hardest hit by the trade war and potential ripple effect on the 2020 election. for national hispanic heritage month, 20 achievers from celebrities to activists who use their voice to empower the latino community. check out who made the list. go to nbcnews.com/latino. introducing a razor that works differently. the gillette skinguard. designed with a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. it guards against razor burn on the neck and irritation on the face. get the shave you've been waiting for.

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comes to the trade war. >> the reason why these states are hit hard is because many have three different areas of their u.s. economy being hit at the same time, like a triple whammie. so you take a state like pennsylvania, for example, they have a retail sector but they also have farmers and large manufacturers. when you are talking about the cost of trump's tariffs for these states it's astronomical. when it comes to the key swing states that you mentioned, wisconsin, michigan, ohio, florida and pennsylvania, in total tariffs have cost them $4.9 billion. and it's not that these farmers and manufacturers and retail businesses don't understand that china has been a bad actor, it's just that they don't want to be collateral damage. that's what we're seeing here. this he want actually for democrats and republicans who are currently in office to actually oversee president trump's tariff policy because it is hurting their constituents. >> when it comes to the democratic candidates here whoever is going to emerge to go

against president trump, do you think any of them have cohesive plans to hold china accountable when it comes to the trade deficit here? >> that's the problem. they don't. they are not articulating an actual plan for dealing with china and also dealing with president trump's tariffs, they are just ignoring the massive cost for u.s. businesses to the u.s. economy, we're seeing a growth slowdown and they're not coming up with a better plan. i understand they're busy obviously trying to win the nomination, but for americans that are being hard hit they would like to see a different strategy and they are really not mentioning anything that would be an alternative. >> do you think president trump's calculus here that these key swing states were going to be significantly impacted about i his decisions? >> so he promised a lot of those key swing states that he would bring manufacturing jobs back from china, from other countries and we're seeing the reverse happen. so we're seeing, for example, pennsylvania and wisconsin they're being really hard hit when it comes to manufacturing jobs, they're seeing huge losses there. when you look at wisconsin they lost over 5,000 manufacturing

jobs, pennsylvania they've lost over 7,000 manufacturing jobs. so this is not something that president trump necessarily intended, he promised to actually, you know, spike up employment in those areas, but his tariff policy is having that effect. >> to your point the ceos of some of the biggest u.s. companies said they are expecting slowed growth this year. how do you think this is going to affect the political landscape going into next year's presidential election. >> when we look at his approval ratings they are take a hit in those swing states. if he wants to keep the white house as his residence he has to address this situation. we know when it comes to farmers he has promised billions of dollars in bailouts but it's crickets when it comes to businesses. the ceos are saying the trade war with china is having the biggest impact here. numbers are falling when it comes to sales. there was no ceo who said there was a positive impact on the trade war, they all said negative impacts. >> appreciate your time early on

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good morning. i'm phillip mena at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west and here is what's happening. phone call fight. the president defending himself. joe biden on the attack. where the showdown is headed. >> trump is doing this because he knows i will beat him like a