completely different way. >> herbie hancock. he's like honey. >> you can check out the entire interview, msnbc.com/mavericks. we hope you'll take a look. "hardball" is up next. time for a decision, let's play hardball. >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington, the american people have a decision to make, is it right or wrong for a president who took an oath to uphold the constitution to trade the favor of his office to a foreign government to get dirt on a political rival, because we have such a case now before us. donald trump has admitted this weekend to having offered the president of ukraine his goodwill and that of his office for negative information on former vice president joe biden.

and right now, former governor of illinois sits in a federal penitentiary, seven years into a 14-year sentence for basically the same behavior, and his case, we're trying to trade his power to fill barack obama's senate seat for personal gain. how is this different from a transaction between a president using military aid with the visit to the white house thrown in to get negative material on a partisan opponent. it follows multiple reports that revealed that in a phone call on july 25th of this year, president trump repeatedly pressured the president of ukraine to investigate bide skpn h -- biden and his family. he urged president to open a probe. revealed how this president used the power and prestige for his office for something he wanted personally, and this stunning news cops after the president spent -- comes after the president spent three years denying that he colluded with

russia to get dirt on hillary clinton. >> there has been no collusion between the trump campaign and russians or trump and russians, no collusion. >> there is no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign. there was no collusion with the campaign. >> here's the bottom line, there was no collusion. no collusion. no nothing. no collusion. no collusion. no collusion. there was no collusion. there was no nothing. but when it comes to ukrainian dirt on joe biden, he's now admitted to doing just that. trump yesterday confirmed the reports that he discussed going after joe biden on that phone call. >> the conversation i had was largely congratulatory, was largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place, was largely the fact that we don't want our people like vice president biden and his son

creating the corruption already in the ukraine. >> as the "wall street journal" editorial points out, mr. zelensky, the president of ukraine surely understood the potential risk of not complying with mr. trump's request even if mr. trump wasn't explicit. as he leaders, president trump continued to deflect questions about ukraine while attacking joe biden with unsubstantiated claims of corruption. >> everybody knows it. it's just a democrat witch hunt, here we go again. they failed with russia, they failed with recession. they failed with everything, and now they're bringing this up. the one who's got the problem is biden. >> on the question from a moment ago, did you tell the ukrainian leader they would have the aid only if they investigated joe biden and his family. >> no, i didn't. but joe biden said it about his son. joe biden was very dishonest what he did. >> what? >> joe biden is the one that did a very very bad thing.

if a republican ever said what joe biden said, they would be getting the electric chair right now. >> i'm joined by senator chris murphy of connecticut, a member of the senate foreign relations committee, senator, once again you see trump in action making these benghazi comments, this e-mail stuff with no claim of actual information, no claim of guilt on the other side, just throwing crap out there, but let's talk about the president, and what he did admit, he admitted talking to a leader of a foreign country, trying to get dirt from him on a political opponent using his goodwill, generally speaking, it doesn't have to apply, it seems to me, to whether it's the foreign aid he's holding up, freezing at that time, $250 million in foreign aid or a visit to the white house. it's the goodwill of an american president for sale, your thoughts, to get dirt, senator murphy. >> think of it this way, if the mueller report had included evidence of a phone call between donald trump and vladimir putin in which donald trump asked

vladimir putin eight different times for his help in the 2016 election, that would have been the smoking gun. i don't think donald trump would be in office today. and i don't know that it matters that that call happened with ukraine instead of with russia. and as you mentioned, the quit pro quo really doesn't matter here, obviously that would elevate people's concern, but there is an implicit threat in every single conversation an american president has with another world leader asking them to do something, especially with a country like ukraine that is dependent on u.s. support. even if he didn't say explicitly, if you don't investigate the biden's on this bs charges i'm making, you're not going to get the aid, of course he would consider if he didn't accede to the president's direct personal request to him, there would be consequences and i think as far as we know, zelensky did not instigate an investigation of bidens and guess what happened, the aid got caught off. >> you know, i grew up in a time

where we looked out for countries that were vulnerable to russia, the ones that live on its borders and we were the good guys, whether it was hungary or poland or wherever, ukraine, we were the ones who helped those captive nations become free, and here he is, the president of the united states, just your thoughts on the history here. here's the president of the united states saying we know you're vulnerable to the russians, they have taken part in your country already effectively. do you want or help or don't you. if you want our help, give us dirt on biden s. >> this is part of the reason i went to ukraine three weeks ago. i had heard zelensky was beside himself, and confused about whether the overtures were official requests from the u.s. government. this is a moment where you need to support ukrainian sovereignty and their independence and the kind of corruption that we're trying to root out all over the world is exactly what trump is displaying right now.

the idea that the president would use the power of his office to try to bully people in to digging up dirt on his political opponents, is exactly the kind of corruption that the state department of the united states tries to stop and counter all over the world. the example that we are setting is going to handicap our efforts at anti-corruption in every corner of the globe if we don't hold the president accountable. >> today the president suggested blocking military aid to ukraine would be appropriate. in fact, trump linked the aid package to ukraine's handling of corruption. here we go. >> let me just tell you, what biden did was wrong. >> what did you tell the ukrainian president about joe biden and his son during your phone call. >> you're going to see because what we are doing is we want honest. if we deal with a country, we want honesty. we're supporting a country. we want to make sure that country is honest. it's very important to talk about corruption.

if you don't talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt? >> what do you make of that, senator? because what he's doing there is tieing together the idea that going after biden is part of his job, going after biden is part of his job to remove corruption. >> right, well he's making up the allegations against the vice president, and i think that's really important to understand. this prosecutor that biden and the entire world community, the imf, the g7, all of our european partners were asking to be let go. this prosecutor was corrupt to the bone, and by the way, this prosecutor was not undertaking an investigation or a prosecution of the company that hunter biden was associated with, and so there was no investigation to shut down or to stop. yesterday, mike pompeo went on tv and accused joe biden of

election interference, which is a brand new preposterous charge, i guess, alleged that biden somehow interfered in the american election in 2016, and it shows they are literally making it up as they go along. let's see the transcript of the phone call. maybe the president of the united states, lays out ten or 20 different corruption investigations he thinks the ukrainians should be prosecuting and biden is on the list. i doubt that's the substance of the call. i bet the only single investigation that the president raises in that call is the one against his likely 2020 poe poent. >> according to the "wall street journal," when asked if the whistle blower complaint should be turned over to congress, republican senator john cornyn said is it a whistle blower or leaker, i don't know which. what do you think? i've watched the first branch of our government under article one, your branch, the united states congress, you have had rights under statute to get things like trump's tax returns

delivered over to the ways and means, and senate finance committees, and now you have a statute they have to turn over the whistle blowers complain, what's going to happen. >> the house is going to have to bring this to court. senator cornyn's comments, a circling of wagons, how does senator cornyn know the substance of the complaint. he can't because it hasn't been delivered to congress, unless he has been read in on the classified nature of it a way the rest of us haven't. i would advise the house to go to court immediately, compel compliance with a statute which is 100% clear, get it before all of us and that will help us decide how to proceed. >> is this impeachable on its merits, senator, going to a foreign government and trading your goodwill as president of the united states, your office basically, so you get dirt on an opponent to use it against him in the next election. >> i have not recommended the house so far that they proceed with impeachment.

i'm going to give it some hard thought in the coming days. but i do have trouble understanding how we would allow for there to be no accountability. i think if the president gets away with this using the awesome power of his office to try to destroy his political opponents, trading away the credibility of the united states globally, i don't know that we rescue our democracy from that transgression. i think there likely has to be accountability and i'm going to think hard about the question of impeachment in the coming days. >> not whether it's good politics for pelosi to move impeachment in the house, not whether you want to have the request in the senate, which i'm sure you could, on its merits, doing what trump admitted to doing over the weekend a high crime. >> certainly if the president of the united states is using the executive branch inappropriately in order to try to destroy his political opponents, that certainly would rank among the

category of offenses that could be impeachable. i'm trying to get more information about this, other than the president's bumbling statements in order to make that determination. but if the president is using the power of his office to try to trade away american national security, to benefit himself personally, there likely has to be some consequence for that. >> thank you, senator chris murphy of connecticut. the president insisted his request for political dirt from a foreign power was entirely appropriate, in fact, he repeatedly said this weekend that his conversation with ukrainian president was, here's his word, classic trump. perfect. >> we had a very great conversation, very straight, very honest conversation. now, i will say this, i said absolutely nothing wrong. it was perfect. my conversation with the president, the new president of ukraine was perfect. the conversation, by the way, was absolutely perfect. that call was a great call. it was a perfect call. a perfect call.

it was a perfect conversation. but just so you understand, the conversation i had with the president of ukraine was absolutely perfect but the conversation i had with the president of ukraine was absolutely a 10. it was perfect. >> joined by cynthia, former federal prosecutor, and ned price, former senior director of the national counsel. it's hard to wonder about the hesitancy, i'm not a member of the senate of congress, i do think for the last three years we have watched them investigate this presidency with one question in mind, did the collude with a foreign power to get dirt on hillary clinton. they wanted an answer, because the answer was definitive, it was a verdict against him, impeachment and now when they get it handed to him, the admission, the confession of the prepondera president, i did just that in their face, nothing but hesitancy. >> that's not the question they looked at. they looked at the question how

does it affect me and my ability to get reelected, they're not looking at whether or not it's impeachable. it's clearly impeachable. it's a felony. >> high crime. >> it's a high crime, absolutely. it's cut and dry, and simple and it doesn't take 17 hours to figure this out. the problem is he's so emboldened. they can't do anything. they can't get his taxes where there's a clear statute. they can't get a witness to be respectful. they can't get witnesses to show up when they're subpoenaed. it makes him think i can do anything, and apparently he can because they can't ever move the ball. >> this calculation, i said when i was working on the show today, i said there's two different questions, we have to separate the dam too. is it the democrat's interest to impeach, separate question politically. it is a partisan calculation. other question for the american people, is this their idea of the american presidency. is this what they hold to be acceptable behavior or

unacceptable behavior. >> i'm no expert in public polling or data of that sort. i think the american people want a president who works for them, not a president who works for him. this is what we have seen with the president over and over again. first it was his financial interests and shepherding the vice president to his irish resort, hosting world leaders at mar-a-lago, turning the dining room into a white house situation room, and now we're seeing a different side of it where the president is absolutely subverting our foreign policy and national securities in many ways, and using it for him, putting our national interests below his personal political interests. >> will it stop in. >> why would it? he has not been held to account yet. >> somebody pointed this out to me a couple of hours ago this afternoon, the day they was on the phone with president zelensky of ukraine, you want my goodwill, come across with dirt on my opponent, is the day after mueller testified. >> exactly. the minute he knew he was clear, the mueller testimony was not powerful enough or clear enough

or strong, okay, i got away with that one. i'm doing ukraine now. >> he already had made that calculation because he'd already sent giuliani in may and june and august to meet with these people. he knew they were feckless by then. >> what does feckless mean? >> incapable of getting anything done to the point of embarrassment, that's what it means to me. >> i'm glad we're talking about the real stuff here and not the process. guys like schiff who is a brilliant guy about process and law. and jerry nadler, they all know the law, but they do not understand to focus every day on the substance. what are we talking about here, a president of the united states who gets up in the morning, and says, you know how i can use the office today, how can i use this power. blagojevich was saying he's in prison for 14 years for this, how can i sell barack obama's

senate seat, and trump says how can i use the presidency to get some of this dirt i want? >> i think adam schiff has driven this train in 100 miles per hour in the same direction since we found out about this. it was a little over a week ago that this mysterious statement went up from adam schiff's office that says the executive branch is holding a whistle blower complaint that is credible. a week later, we know a tremendous amount of con tent. the other piece we have to remember in this is the thing that gnaws at me, the inspector general testified behind closed doors, reportedly, at least, that this involved multiple acts, that ukraine called, july 25th phone call may be just the tip of the iceberg. we don't know, i think we're going to hear more from the d and i this week, the president is going to meet with his ukrainian counter part on wednesday. that will be an interesting meeting to watch. >> as long as 1/5 of the american people are willing to push for impeachment, pelosi ain't going to do it. it's time for the voice of

people. >> i don't think it's fair to put schiff and nadler in the same group. i think schiff will be more effective. he's capable. >> we'll know thursday. >> this week the congress is going to decide if they're an equal branch of government or not. >> have to get right to the complaint under statutes that they passed in congress, signed by the president that they have to give this information, the whistle blower came up with the president's phone call. if they don't get it, congress is irrelevant. thank you, cynthia, ned price. the fog machine, for hillary it was benghazi, benghazi, benghazi, and the e-mails, the e-mails, and now it's biden and ukraine. >> you know what i found out about joe biden, you know what i told my colleague, they're going to cover this up. too bad biden is involved in this. i got a nice straight case of ukrainian collusion. >> doesn't matter that the allegations are untrue or not even spelled out by this crowd, they keep hammering away at it, without saying what's wrong.

what did biden do wrong, please tell us. plus, elizabeth warren surges ahead in iowa, she's ahead of biden now. the democrats know whoever wins the caucus almost always gets the nomination. what can biden, bernie, and the others do to stop her. she's going fast. much more we're going to get to tonight. stick with us. ore we're going t tonight. stick with us. playing throughou) so, i needed legal advice, and i heard that my cousin's wife's sister's husband was a lawyer, so i called him. but he never called me back! if your cousin's wife's sister's husband isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

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did the president threaten to cut off aid. >> no. >> to the ukraine. >> that was a false story. >> 100%? >> i can't tell you if it's 100%. >> i can't tell you. rudy's moment of honesty. welcome back to "hardball", there he was, rudy giuliani continuing to defend the president's dealings with ukraine. also continued to allege misdeeds committed by former vice president joe biden. >> joe biden knew that they were zeroing in on hunter and he went

over there and got him fired. do you know what i found out about joe biden, you know what i told my colleague, they're going to cover this up. too bad biden is involved. i got a straight case of ukrainian collusion. >> you're straining. >> i'm straining into what is wrong with us today. >> the facts are not noo giuliani's corner. "the washington post" reports, no evidence has surfaced that biden acted inappropriately, and trump's allies did not provide such evidence. giuliani wasn't alone in pushing the president's talking points. >> if there was election interference that took place by the vice president, i think the american people deserve to know. >> i'm hoping the department of justice will look at the biden/ukraine connection like we looked at the trump russia connection. >> "the washington post" notes again there is no evidence that biden played any role in election interference efforts by foreign governments in 2016. on cnn, treasury secretary

stuc steven mnuchin attempted to criticize, and how that sidiffe from the business dealings of president trump's children. >> what i find inappropriate is vice president biden at the time's son did very significant business dealings in ukraine. >> it's okay for donald trump jr. and eric to do business all over the world, and ivanka trump to have copy rights aprovered all over the world, but while vice president was biden, his son shouldn't have been able to do business dealings? >> again, i don't really want to go into more of these details. >> he comes to using talking points, that man is an amateur, he may know how to make money but doesn't know anything about politics. editor and chief of the bull work, enjoying it absurdity, gene, didn't he expect that would be the counter point? >> apparently not, no. mnuchin is not good at this. he's just not good at the

talking points. but it's ridiculous, let's just establish the baseline, this whole thing they're trying to cook up is a lie. there was no investigation of hunter biden underway when the prosecutor was fired. the prosecutor was corrupt, tied to the old pro russian government, the g7 and the eu, and everybody wanted this guy gone. he was a corrupt remnant of the old regime, and everybody wanted him out, and biden managed to dislodge him. that's what happened. >> charlie help me with this. this is new to me, i think it's new to me, you know, there's certain words you can say right of center all the way through trumpland, and it's a question that answers itself, so you just say, as if presto or bingo, you just yell out, benghazi, and you go, oh, yeah, that's right. what are they saying that's right to or just say e-mails, i love that one, and that's it. the question is the answer, we

hate her. we hate hillary. it's like a buzz word, do you hate hillary, but this guy, with biden it's going to be ukraine. they're going to say it. you know trump's teaching the choir now the words to speak, but don't any republicans, doesn't a single republican say, what are you getting at, what are you talking about, mr. president, what is this. don't they ever ask the question wh what? your thoughts. >> i think your phrase about the fog machine was right on target here. but actually we are kind of at a new phase, and we saw this over the weekend. we spent the last couple of years talking about republican complicity or republican silence, what you saw there was all in on the trump conspiracy theories in this, you know, it's sort of like hitchcock's gaslight meets orwell, these fabricated sto fabricated stories that they are putting forward. again, this is part of the new, by now, familiar play book that

we have seen. flipping the script, projecting whatever wrong doing you are doing on to the other guy, and i think this is going to be the stress test, a stress test for the media in how they cover this, whether they are going to be sucked into this narrative, a stress test obviously if the rule of law and how congress deals with all of this. think about what republicans are doing right now. they spent the last three years saying absolutely not, there's no collusion, how dear you suggest that the president engage in any collusion with russia, and this week, well, of course he colluded with a foreign power, that's his job, he's supposed to collude. there's nothing wrong with collusion, and so it's a remarkable moment in our political history. >> by the way, rudy giuliani said over the weekend he's been working toward this moment for months. this is what he wants, this conversation. let's figure that one out. republicans have also been relatively silent on the implications of trump discussing biden with the ukrainian president. >> it is regrettable that house

intelligence committee chairman schiff and senator schumer have chosen to politicize the issue. >> i don't know the context. i don't know what was said. >> this is not something i had ever seen the president doing, and i would instead of jump to conclusions, actually get the facts first. >> i love that pat toomey, i'm just asleep here. i don't know. don't know nothing, schultz answer, i don't know nothing. i call him a president by mistake, because sometimes he acts like one, mitt romney, he tweeted this weekend if the president asked or pressured ukraine's president to investigate his political rival, it would be troubling in the extreme. that's mitt romney, he was pressed on that comment by nbc late today. >> the allegations that were made in the press are quite serious and the question now is what exactly did happen. >> do you need the transcript because the president has already admitted that he did have the conversation with ukraine's leader and asked the

foreign power to investigate one of his political opponents. >> he said he spoke, mentioned vice president's name but did not ask faor an investigation. he may have, by the way, i just don't know whether that was in fact said by the president or not. >> let me go back to this, what do you think charlie, they are up to with biden. giuliani calls vice president biden's son a drug addict. the lion is being thrown out, the stuff, what we used to consider dirt ball in politics, this is the weekend to dump it. are they trying to get biden to react? is that what they're up to, to ignite him? >> i think what they're drying to do is smear him and derail him. what's extraordinary about this is the president in the united states, and his allies are fabricating the allegations. as eugene mentioned a lot of this has no basis in fact whatsoever, and part of this is the brazenness of the president knowing that he can do this, knowing he has cabinet members, including, by the way, the secretary of state of the united

states who is going to go out and fabricate some of these allegations, knowing that republicans will either be silent or go along with it, and knowing that he has a friendly news media that will be an echo chamber for all of this. i think he thinks that joe biden poses the greatest threat to his re reelection. if he derails his campaign, great, if biden gets the nomination, you'll be hearing about this throughout 2020. >> it's probably a road map to whoever the democratic nominee is. he just got a report, "wall street journal," 70% don't like this guy, don't think he's worthy to be president, he has to tear his opponent to skunk. >> his negatives are so high, he's grot ot to raise the negat of whoever he runs against. he was fortunate in running against hillary clinton, that's the only way e got elected president and nobody in the field now is anywhere near that

in terms of unlikableness or high negatives, as hillary clinton was. so it's just, you know, we're going to see more and more of it, as charlie said. this is the play book. i would point out one thing, when we say, you know, let's get the transcript, no, let's not just get the transcript, they need to get the entire whistle blower complaint. >> the law requires they turn it over. >> the law requires they turn it over, and apparently the complaint, it has been reported involves more than one incident. it's not just this one transcript of this one phone call. there are other things involved in this report apparently. >> well done, thank you, gene robinson so much, thank you charl charlie sykes. i talked about the partisan democrats, what are they going to think about this. do they have enough fire, can they create enough fire from this fact that trump has admitted now, to move forward.

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welcome back to "hardball," president trump's brazen solicitation of dirt on a political adversary, joe biden under the guise of conducting foreign policy has reignited the debate of impeachment within the house democratic caucus. speaker of the house nancy pelosi sent a letter explaining she expects the acting director of national intelligence to hand over that whistle blower's

complaint and make it available to the house and senate intelligence committees. she ended the letter with a vague new threat, if the administration persists in blocking this whistle blower from disclosing to congress a serious possible breach of constitutional duties by the president, they will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness which will take us into a whole new stage of investigation. and there's breaking news just tonight from the "washington post." house democratic leaders have called a caucus meeting tomorrow afternoon to discuss questions of impeachment. for more i'm joined by congressman democrat of illinois, and member of the oversight and intelligence committees. this meeting tomorrow afternoon called by pelosi, what do you make of it? is this going to be a decision making meeting or a meeting to calm you people down? >> i think it's probably going to be a meeting where people can express their views, and have a chance to kind of weigh in on what's happening this week. i just want to point to the seriousness of what's about to

happen this thursday. it's a follow on to a hearing, a closed door hearing that we had last week, probably the most sobering intelligence hearing i've been to. we had a witness from central casting who basically came in and gave very careful, considered and consistent testimony, basically saying to us, do something about this complaint, and he happened to be appointed by the trump administration. so that's why i think people are so concerned right now. >> well, that's the inspector general, but what about the head of the dni, the director of national intelligence, you're going to have him in on thursday, many mcguire f he straight arms you and says you're not going to get the complaint even though the law requires you get it, what then. >> he backs us into a corner where we have to basically look at other tools. as chairman schiff said, essentially at that point, we have a couple of different

options. i think, you know, going down the impeachment road might be one of them. i think right now, i think a lot of my colleagues, by the way, during that hearing last week, republicans were unusually engaged on this particular issue, in part because this guy, the inspector general has no reason to lie. in fact, telling the truth probably might cost him his career. >> well, i think we know already the heart of the conversation the president was seeking dirt against the political opponent, and using the goodwill of the american presidency to get it. let me ask you that central question, congressman, would it be a high crime for a president to do such a thing? >> yes, i think, you know, the mueller investigation was about whether the trump campaign conspired with the russians to interfere in our democracy. here, if the reporting is accurate, then trump is inviting and asking another of power to interfere in our democracy, and conspireing with them in the process. this is in my opinion, even worse than what was thought to

have potentially happened in 2016. >> tell me why you think this is what it is a high crime, describe the transaction that we understand the president to have been engaged in with the ukrainian president, what was the transaction as you understood it? >> well, we know at a minimum that he talked about, according to the reporting, if it's accurate, that he talked about investigating vice president biden. the other fact, which is also in the mix, which we're not sure about was whether there was a quid pro quo, namely we will give you aid, which you are already obligated to receive, in return for conducting this inquiry in biden, so that even makes the situation worse and so that's why we have to get that complaint, we have to get the transcript of the calls as well. >> where is pelosi on this, because you have about 130, 35 members of the house democrats, of the caucus, who are for

beginning a formal impeachment process. you've got about a hundred who aren't on board for doing it. how many will it take to get pelosi to move and say, yes, we're going to go ahead with a formal resolution of impeachment to begin the procedures. >> i don't know. you'd have to ask her. what i do know is that right now we have a majority of the caucus, including myself who would urge the impeachment process to begin but that's not a majority of the house, and you do need a majority of the house to proceed, so i think that might be weighing on any calculations here as well. >> okay. let's see how they moves by thursday, if you get stiff armed again, i don't know what you can do. thank you, congressman, thank you so much from illinois. up next, all eyes are on iowa now, a new poll has elizabeth warren, the senator from massachusetts in the lead now. it happened over the weekend. "des moines register" poll, first time she's ahead of biden. the question is will she be the front runner come february 3rd when they vote in iowa.

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welcome back to "hardball," the democratic presidential candidates begin a four month race to win the first presidential test in iowa. 17 of the candidates were in iowa this weekend for the annual steak fry, as a new poll showed a significant shake up among the race's top tier. with senator elizabeth warren overtaking former vice president joe biden for the first time. she's in first place. the "des moines register" cnn policy shows warren leading, biden follows closely behind at 20%, down 3 points since june. senator bernie sanders not doing so well, third place at 11%, down 5 points since swrun. mayor pete buttigieg, and kamala harris rounding out the top five. i'm watching pete buttigieg, by the way, i think he's the sleeper.

1976, each democrat who has won the iowa caucuses has gone on to win the democratic nomination with two exceptions, the gep heart of neighboring missouri, iowa native tom harkin, who won in iowa won the whole thing but the new poll also indicates that the race for iowa is far from over, and that's coming up next, it's very volatile, as i said, watch buttigieg. you're watching "hardball." butt. you're watching "hardball.

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welcome back to "hardball," senator elizabeth warren is surging in iowa right now, narrowly overtaking former vmt joe biden in the latest "des moines register" poll out this weekend. in michigan on sunday, senator warren was asked about her new presumptive front runner status. >> the new polls in iowa show you surging, are you a candidate to beat biden there. >> i don't do polls. we are still months away from the iowa caucuses, and the first primary elections. >> i'm still waiting to meet my first politician who doesn't hire a pollster. in fact, with more than 130 days to go to the iowa caucuses, the registered polled show among those with the first choice candidate, 2/3 of likely caucus goers say they could be persuaded to support another candidate. they're loosy goosy out there. i'm joined by ceo of the center for american progress and ryan whims republican strategist. one thing i have noticed, it's not that she's going to get

bashed like biden may get bashed by this president, but she's going to be under scrutiny. front runners are under skrooutny. she's going -- scrutiny. she'squestion, what's this going to cost. it's basically $1.45 for every point. obviously it's going to have to go up, she's not going to answer the question. how much is medicare tax go up if you get med for all? >> you sat with pete buttigieg over the weekend, he's already asking that question he's pushed that question on a lot of other candidates have asked that question. i think in the next debate she will have to have an answer to that question. i do think -- >> a numerical answer. >> a yes-or-no answer to the question. she has to answer it in some fashion. she said costs overall have to be better. i do think she's running a great campaign, i do think -- i have

been in primary campaigns that were ahead in september that weren't ahead at this point. you do -- there's a lot of people who were actually still deciding. >> she asked an interesting point. she raised pete buttigieg. i'm waiting maybe because i love politics, the contest of it and the surprise of it. i don't think everything written down ahead of time. buttigieg may appeal to people who -- they're a little bit to the left, more populous than the rest of the country. if that guy goes in and gives those paragraph by paragraph toonsz every question as if he had the question two weeks ago, he's already starting to rise out there. >> he could be the sleeper if warren and biden and sanders blow each other up in the debates. he shoots the middle. people like him in the democratic party. he's not in the top three at this point, but he's right there in the back of the pack amongst the serious candidates. there's a long way to go. if warren is having a moment, she's definitely the front-runner at this point. >> a bit too early.

>> it's a little early. if this was november or december, i think she would feel better about it, but she has a good organization in place. >> it's always good to be ahead. >> is bernie done? you have to give him his authenticity. i didn't think he was in control of the last debate. i thought he looked like christopher lloyd in "back to the future," he was all over the place. he didn't look like a president. >> i think a really important difference between warren's numbers in the "des moines register" poll and sanders is warren is frulg both clinton voters and from sanders voters. >> what are clinton voters. >> people who sfloevoted in 201 hillary. sanders hasn't pulled any clinton voters to his side. i think he doesn't so far have a campaign to expand, but maybe he will. he's a stern campaigner. >> what do you think of david brooks' comment this week.

he said senator warren is very self-aware. she knows how she comes across, what she has to correct, which is smart in a politician. bernie's not selfie awa-aware. >> she's trying to build up her midwest background, massachusetts. bernie sanders is bernie sanders. he's a dishevelled guy. >> that's what his campaign sells. he says the same thing no matter what. for his supporters, a boon for him. a big question is can he expand i don't understand his base. >> dishevelled isn't a calculation, he just is. the trump campaign is pessimistic about michigan now because they won it by 10,000 after a midterm election that decimated the ranks of michigan republicans. trump's campaign is looking to

other battle grounds he lost last time. let me go right now. >> this i think is a function of his entire presidency. he spent no time trying to reach out to voters that aren't his base, that puts new a precarious position. the democrats did very well and all the house races in michigan and in the governor's race, a woman who won comfortably. >> i'll look at the numbers. >> he doesn't need michigan. >> we thank you so much. i don't know why they write that in politico, looking to new hampshire, give me a break. you have to win the country. thank you. you're great. thank you. coming up -- i got to announce this from you, i love it. what can we do about a president openly admitting, okay, i'm going after dirt on biden. that's next.

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i want to place this question before you. should this man be serving as your president. for all these months since it came out that he accepted foreign help to get the him elected. clearly he's doing it again. he admits talking to the president of ukraine to get dirt on joe biden. this time we don't have to connect the dots.

we don't have to piece together a meeting at trump tower built on the promise of dirt on hillary clinton. a meeting involving his son and a messenger from moscow. we don't have to link father to son, messenger to putin. no. here we have the president of the united states admitting that he told the president of ukraine he wanted dirt. he offered up over the weekend what it took democrats three years to muster, a presidential confession that he trade his office for personal political gain. as i said at the beginning of the show, much the same as rod blagojevich tried selling his power to fill barack obama's senate seat to feather his political nest. corruption takes many forms, but usually it comes down to this one. a politician using the power given to him by office to get something for himself. if you see it this way, the switch board to your representative in congress is 202-225-3121.

ask for his or her office. if they won't vote, you can. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> russia, if you're listening -- >> the president keeps running the same play. >> if you don't talk about corruption, why would you give money. >> donald trump admits to using his power to coerce a foreign government into sabotaging his opponent. >> i think this is the most serious charge against the president. >> tonight what works we know about what the president has already done. and as new purchase buildings in the house. >> we may have crossed the rubicon here. >> will democrats try to stop donald trump. >> when do we say enough is enough and we have to hold him accountable? >> what happened when the world convened in new york to address the climate catastrophe? >> we are in the bin