beat" at 6:00 p.m. eastern including some special guests. i wouldn't go anywhere right now because you know what time it is. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. i made him an offer he k couldn't refuse. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. i would like you to do us a favor, though. those were president trump's words to ukrainian president zelinsky this summer as zelinsky sought vital military arms from the united states. which paints a damning picture of the conversation now at the center of an official impeachment inquiry. not only does the memo confirm reports trump asked for an investigation of joe biden, it suggests the president of the

united states conditioned defense of a u.s. ally on delivering the dirt on biden. was it true or false? trump emphasizes multiple times to ukrainian president zelinsky that, quote, the united states has been very, very good to ukraine and that prompted zelinsky to bring up what he needs to defend his country from continued russian aggression. thank you for your great support in the area of defense, he said. we're almost ready to buy more javelins from the united states. there's different versions of them. there's one you put on the shoulder. the u.s. has been deploying to ukraine for their self-defense. in responding to zelinsky's plea for missiles, trump immediately responds with a favor of his own. i would like you to do us a favor, though. zelinsky then tells trump his assistant has already spoken to rudy giuliani. trump goes onto make another

request saying the other thing, there's a lot of talk about biden's son, that biden stopped the prosecution, so if you could look into it, it sounds horrible to me. zelinsky assures trump his next prosecutor general will look into the information. only after receiving that assurance does trump offer zelinsky a personal meeting at the white house. trump repeatedly urged zelinsky to meet with giuliani. the release of this memo came the same day that trump met with president zelinsky today at the u.n. he was careful not to offend the president today. he's relying on him for national defense. >> i think you read everything, so i think you read text. i'm sorry, but i don't want to be involved to democratic open

elections -- elections of usa. you heard we had i think good phone call. it was normal. we spoke about many things. so i think and you read it that nobody pushed me. >> in other words, no pressure. >> zelinsky underscored the independence and his prosecutor is free to decide whatever it is himself. all of this urged from that whistle-blower's complaint after being suppressed for weeks was delivered to congress late today. i'm joined by congressman eric swalwell who just viewed that complaint. congressman, thank you. can you tell us at least in qualitative terms how much more is there in this formal complaint to the i.g. that we saw in the memo today of the conversation between the

president and the president of ukraine? >> chris, i can tell you what's described in the complaint is deeply disturbing. the acting director of national intelligence prohibits me from even connecting it to the president's call with ukraine. but i'll just say this. the whistle-blower, thank god this person came forward, lays out witnesses we need to follow up with, documents that we need to get and also describes a number of individuals around this disturbing conduct who never came forward. that's what's really concerning to me. i want to speak briefly to what you described as the president's call to ukraine. not only does he call the ukrainian president to investigate a political apone that you're going to owe that person something, in that transcript he also is essentially doing russia's bidding and seeking to exonerate russia for the work that they did in the election by seeing if someone else was involved with this serve thr that he asked th to follow up on. that in itself is betrayal to our country. >> what do you make of this? many people believe that for a

president of the united states to condition military support here in the form of javelin missiles to fight russian tanks, the condition that delivery of those weapons, defensive weapons on whether a president of that allied country gives him dirt on a political opponent, is itself a high crime? where are you on that? >> yes, it is. it's corrupt. it's the way third world leaders conduct themselves, not the president of the united states. again, the president has made the standard quid pro quo, just the fact that he asks shows he would have to owe the uyan krn president something, putting foreign governments priorities above america's. the ukrainian's aren't stupid. they know that militarily, economically and just through credibility they need the united states. and if aid is being held back and the president of the united states is asking you to do something, they're going to do it. >> trump is our commander in chief. he's head of state, head of government in many ways in a country that has power divided among branches of government.

he is enmany ways the symbol of our country. the one the american people have to look up to for their defense. has he betrayed that role in his using his control over armed supplies to an allied country vulnerable to russia, has he betrayed that responsibility certainly to the american people by serving his part sp interest snz. >> he's pushed us away from traditional democracies who care about human rights and drawn us closer to people like vladimir putin, kim jong-un, duterte of the philippines. imagine what the transcripts read like when he talks to putin. >> let's talk about this. he likes to say in his talking points and distribute it to all the republican basically robo thinkers and talkers, they put the word out today it's not quid pro quo. it sounded to me like extortion. if you want these weapons to

defend yourself against russian tanks you better play ball with me and give me some dirt. meaning i'll give you your anti-tank missiles. that sounds more like i made an offer they couldn't refuse, much more than extortion -- it wasn't a deal. it was a threat. >> it was a mob shakedown. >> right. what more do you need? the thing i'm concerned about and some people get mad when i raise this, it seems like we've got so many lawyers in the house of representatives now, so many process people. you guys are always ready to serve a subpoena or a contempt citation, and all you do is look this thing in the eye and see it. is this impeachable or not and have a vote within the next few weeks and move on because it's not going to look anymore clear in two or three weeks. what more do you as a congressman, a member of the intelligence committee and judiciary, what more do you want to know to decide this case yourself? >> keep it simple. as a former prosecutor nothing is more powerful as evidence than a defendant's own admission

of guilt. and we have that in the notes that were released today. >> great leadership there. eric swalwell, hours after the release of the memo on president trump's call with the ukrainian president, speaker pelosi reaffirmed her belief that president trump's behavior undermines the rule of law here. for his part president trump dismissed pelosi and her role as speaker of the house. >> today's release of the notes of the call by the white house confirms this behavior which undermines the integrity of our election, the dignity of any presidency and our national security. >> did you ask house speaker nancy pelosi to find a way out of impeachment yesterday? >> not at all. no. she's lost her way. she's been taken over by the radical left. and she may be radical left herself. nancy pelosi as far as i'm concerned unfortunately she's no longer speaker of the house.

>> all of those people that lived through, and think about the cold war and how we defended those captive countries along the border of russia, the soviet union, how we were looking out for them. and here we have a case where one desperate country, ukraine, all they wanted were javelin missile, the kind you put on your shoulder to shoot at russian tanks that take your country apart. but he said first let's talk about what i want. give me that and we'll talk business. your thoughts. >> it's so obvious, and i think what's different about this is that any person -- you don't have to be a lawyer can see what this president has done, that he has compromised the integrity of our constitution, that he has used his power for his own

personal political gain. i'm really kind of surprised that they released this at all. but the one quote that i think is also really important that you didn't say, the president after saying, oh, we have done so much for ukraine, also said and i wouldn't say it's reciprocated. i mean, he was saying we want some resipicaticiprocation, and outlines it. we want the dirt on my political apo opponent. and one other thing, he said rudy giuliani you should talk to him, but he also said that i want you to talk to the attorney general of the united states of america. so he was using every implement of government to also reinforce this political goal of his to get dirt on joe biden. >> well, ukrainian president

zelinsky seemed almost desperate to secure additional u.s. military support during today's photo-op. let's watch him again. >> if you remember you lost crimea during a different administration, not during the trump administration. >> and so you have chance to help us. >> that's right, i do. >> i'm sorry, but we don't need help. we need support, real support. and we thank everybody, thank all of the european countries, but we also want to have more. >> i gave you anti-tank busters that frankly president obama was sending you pillows. i really hope that you and president putin get together and can solve your problem. that would be a trumeemendous achievement. >> this president goes down on this and there's certainly a good case he should be impeached for this. it's because of the absurd obsession with hillary clinton and barack obama. in the midst of any conversation, it pops out of him like tourette's.

i'm giving you missile, i'm giving you javelin missiles and this stuff happened under somebody else, and we've got to get hillary's server -- it's like one of these nationalli enquirer things. the servers in ukraine. >> that crowd strike was mentioned, that company that was used to determine that the russians were behind the hacking. this is really extraordinary, chris. and i have to say that we have seen the evolution by president trump going from russia if you hear me to ukraine, listen up. >> in the midst of this congresswoman he says it's so pathetic and condescending, here's a country vulnerable to the russians, they've grabbed part of their country, crimea.

and he said why don't you settle your problem, it's like telling finland to settle their problem with russia. little countries don't solve their problems with big countries on their borders. they give into them. what was he talking about? it was condescending i thought in addition to all this other impeachable stuff. >> it's totally impeachable. and i think the american people have to understand how this misuse of his power is so blatant. they've cut $200 million away from a benefit to ukraine just a week before this conversation. so i'm sure that the president of ukraine understood that this was a shakedown. it was a shakedown. >> wow. the fear that trump would abuse his power with ukraine was apparent to those around the president even before the phone call with the president of ukraine. according to "the washington post" this is the big stuff, several officials describe tense meetings on ukraine among

national security officials at the white house leading up to the president's phone call. sessions that led some participants to fear trump and those close to him were prepared to use u.s. leverage for trump's political gain. and some senior officials worked behind the scenes to hold off a trump meeting or even a phone call with president zelinsky out of concern the president was use information to press kiev about joe biden and his son. >> it sounds like, chris, from what congressman swalwell said that this whistle-blower complaint is going to provide a road map for congress to question other individuals who will have knowledge of the requests that were made, that setup the zelinsky call. clearly he knee what the president was going to say in the call because he'd had

contact from giuliani and the others. and the mention of attorney general barr is extraordinary because it's attorney general barr who presumably ruled that the whistleblower complaint did not make out a case. now, isn't this a conflict of interest? >> congressman, i have one concern and it grows in my head. i'll go to bed tonight were yg about it. this will all get diffused into a lot of committee jurisdictions. a lot of members of congress have their own particular focus so far, where they want to put their point. can the speaker and you, can you keep the focus on ukraine? keep it a simple up or down vote on whether this is an impeachable act, a high crime or not and have a vote weeks in rather months. i'm afraid this will get diffused and never get to a vote because of the crazy incoherent way this has been handled by the

committee. so many different voice, five minute rule. you know how it works, congressman. it's hard to keep focus. >> i think this is going to move swiftly. tomorrow we're going to see an open hearing at the house intelligence committee. we're going to learn from the whistle-blower. we're going to talk to the dni, the director of national intelligence. and i think this is going to build on itself, and i think we will be able to move swiftly. and as i said i think the thing that's different right now is that this is so clear. the american people are not going to be confused by this and we're all going to be questioning whether this president is capable of handling the intelligence in this country, dealing with foreign powers if he is capable of being president of the united states. >> well said. thank you so much. coming up, just a short time ago

the u.s. congress received that explosive whistleblower complaint itself. what can we expect tomorrow when the acting director of national intelligence joseph maguire testifies publicly and the man at the strf this ukraine scandal is no surprise rudy giuliani. here it is. >> laura, i'm a pretty good lawyer, just a country lawyer but it's all here. right here. the first call from the state department. by the way, do you have any idea that the state department -- shut up, moron. shut up. you don't know what you're talking about. >> chris, chris. >> you don't know what you're talking about, idiot. >> i do. >> and tomorrow night kamala harris is going at it, joining us live. she's a member of the senate intelligence committee, one of the two committees interviewing the director of national intelligence and the inspector general for security matters tomorrow. much more to get to in a day of fast moving developments. stick with us. day of fast minovg developments stick with us.

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welcome back to "hardball." today we learned the white house notes of that july 25th phone call between the president and the president of ukraine, that's where he conditioned the u.s. military support and they gave us dirt on political rival joe biden. some lawmakers have gotten a look at the original whistleblower complaint. at the news conference with the united nations today president trump said he supported the release of that complaint. >> and i've spoken with leader kevin mccarthy and the republicans, many of them. and we were going to do this anyway, but i've informed them, all of the house members, that i fully support transparency on the so-called whisblower information. >> for more i'm joined by michael schmidt, national

correspondent for "the new york times." what's the state of play here tonight? the president put on a good line today, he sounded like he's confident he's won this round, and yet all the evidence points to what looked like an extortion racket, the president of the united states saying if you want the weapons, you want to defend your country, give me dirt. it's all in the notes from that conversation. >> well, the president thought that the democrats had been overplaying their hand and that if the transcript came out that it would help them and it would show that this was not that bad. i'm not sure it has had that impact. i think what you see in the document is sort of a melding together some of the worst allegations made against the president in the mueller report. it's talking to a foreign country related to an election, and it's also trying to use an investigation of a rival to undermine and using the power of his presidency to do that. so in this instance he has

melded together those two things into this problem that sits in front of him. and what's different about this problem than the other ones that we've seen is that it's sort of a single thing that he has to contend with. over the past three years what it's been is a lot of different things, collusion, obstruction, different things about his business. in this instance it's sort of one thing with the transcript with his own words. we are inside the room with him behind closed doors seeing what he is saying to a foreign leader and how he's using his power. >> that's the way i read it. where it says in these notes from the conversation put out by the national security counsel, the president of ukraine, sort of desperate, we were almost ready to buy more javelins. these are the weapons used to fight tanks with from the united states for defense purposes. the next thing the president says after hearing that plea he goes, here's trump, i would like to do -- i would like you to do

us a favor, though. i would like you to do us a favor, though. how is that not quid pro quo? the very moment he asks what he needs to protect his country the president comes back with, yeah, but i need you to do something for us, though. that is trading situation. except, trump also thought the guy who's in jail for 14 years when he's trading barack obama's senate seat for his personal political gain, he thought that was okay. is it possible in your reporting that the president of the united states, the one we have now doesn't know what awful is? >> i'm not sure. but in terms of a quid pro quo when those types of things happen i don't think people sit down and say, here's the quid, there's the pro, and here's the quo. in this instance it certainly comes up early in the conversation. it looks like the president is trying to build leverage in that sort of showing this is what we've done for you. we've been very good to you with

this aid, the europeans aren't nearly as good and then he then goes in and asks for the favor. it's actually -- you know, it's asking this country to do these investigations that would help him. >> thank you so much. one of the great reporters of our time, michael schmidt. i want to bring in bill jenner. i can't think of a better guest. when someone goes to the inspector general for national intelligence and says to him there's something i've overhead that's very urgent to me or concerning, how important is that? >> well, it's very important because the reason these rules were created was to give people who had something to complain about a way of elevating that concern without leaking it. it was a way of sort of allowing

somebody who saw something that was or that was thought to be really out of bounds, who would elevate that and tell the oversight committees on the hill about it in a secure way without leaking the information. so what we're having now, what the administration was doing was really to make leaking more likely. now, the more we learn today and i think as your viewers now know, that was stopped by the intervention of the justice department which said they didn't think the statute applied. and of course the inspector general mr. atkins thought it did apply. the more we learn the more it appears the acting director which we'll hear from tomorrow was playing a tough and honorable inside game. "the post" reports this afternoon he threatened to resign if he wasn't allowed to go to the hill. he's denied that, so one doesn't

quite know what to say about a resignation, but he must have been playing a tough inside game because the white house has been moved backwards on this. they have allowed him to go on the hill. >> let's talk about the perspective of the man or woman, we don't know -- who issued the whistleblower complaint. >> the point of that statute is to eliminate that risk. and we look -- when i was an inspector general of the nsa if one saw a retaliation against someone who complained, we would come down like a ton of bricks on that person. you had to protect the person who was a whistleblower, who was a complainer because after all, all complainers are not right about what they're saying, and it's the i.g.'s job to evaluate those things. so we've got a really good mechanism to take care of this,

and the i.g. community does a good job of protecting people who are complaining about things like that. >> let's talk about the i.g., the person rob at kinsson, he hs to present the congress the complaint. what would stop an i.g. from doing that? why wouldn't he deliver what he's been told to deliver to congress? >> because the statute says he doesn't go directly to congress. he has to give it to his director or in this case his acting director. now, the i.g. and the acting director, although the i.g. is a watchdog, he's an executive branch official. like it or not. he's not a free agent. he works in the executive branch. and the office of legal counsel and justice, chris, is the last word as far as the executive branch is concerned about what

the law is, and they said, no, the law doesn't apply here. now, i didn't agree with that but that puts both the i.g. and the acting director between a rock and a hard brace. they cannot insert their own judgment. >> some political analysis here, we have an attorney general who's being used by this president to do his dirty work collecting dirt over ukraine. it's in the telephone notes with the president of ukraine. we know that. that's how this attorney general is being used, as a roy cohn basely. and we also know he sided with the president in terms of the mueller report before, during and after. everything was basically juiced for the president's purposes by this attorney general. now you cite the attorney general as the one to deliver the call as if it's an institution immune to politics. this department of justice is totally politicized. >> the department of justice

under our constitution, chris is part of the political branches of government. the a.g., like it or not, is a political appointee. that's why this is not fundamentally going to be solved by lawyers. this is political conflict between the two political branches of government and it's got to have a political solution which is either an election or an impeachment. >> you've said what i've been thinking so articletly now for months. lawyers are not going to solve this. it may not be about the letter of the law. it's like pornography, you'll know when you see it. and this has been committing a high crime. anyway, thank you. i did like the way you said that -- we're out of time. make your thought, go ahmed. >> well, i wanted to tell people who are focused on this quid pro quo business about which people are spinning whichever way they want to, to focus instead on the sequence of events.

that cannot be -- >> he throws the money and he met with the guy on the phone and said do you still want those arms, okay, give me some dirt. we've got to go. we'll have to have you back. up next, what exactly is rudy giuliani's role in the u.s. government? he's not appointed to any official post, so why is he talking to foreign governments like ukraine? you're watching "hardball." ukre you're watching "hardball. you've had quite the career. i like working. what if my retirement plan is i don't want to retire?

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you know who i did it at the request of? the state department. i never talked to a ukrainian official until the state department called me and asked me to do it and then i reported every conversation back to them. and i'm a pretty good lawyer, just a country lawyer but it's all here, right here. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani last night defending his interactions with ukraine. giuliani's efforts to dig up dirt on the bidens is the central focus now of president trump's july phone call with the ukrainian president himself. one key quote from the white house notes president trump told the ukrainian leader i want to ask him to call you along with the attorney general. rudy very much knows what's happening and he's a very capable guy. if you could speak with him, that would be great, closed quote. "the washington post" reports on

giuliani's months long shadow effort that quote involved inabrupt removal of the ambassador to ukraine. the circumvention of senior officials on the national security counsel and the suspension of hundreds of millions of dollars in aid administered by defense and state department. rudy he did all this, this s hadf-show we're in, it's him. i'm joined by barbara mcquade. here's a great line in all the old kwiem shows was did you notice anything different that night, anything special happen that night? in other words, is anything changing in the norm tells you something special to that night happened and it probably has something to do with the crime being investigated. those officials in the state department for months was something weird happening in our relationship with ukorean. it had to do with getting dirt, getting dirt on hillary, especially on joe biden who at that time in the early parts of the summer really looked like a

threat more than he does today in fact to this president. that's what this is about. what do you make of the fact that rudy giuliani, he's showing up in all these quarters as the president's guy? >> i think it's a tell. i think it suggests that president trump himself knew that this was shady and not to be done through official channels. he did want send a government official. he didn't somebody who works in the white house, didn't send anybody from the state department. he sent his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani. you know, this is -- in public corruption cases you refer to someone like that as the bad man, someone who goes and does the dirty work, has the negotiations, talks about the deal off-line. if giuliani was talking with the state department about this mission, what's the name of the person you were talking to at the state department and let's put that person before congress and talk about what the scope of this assignment was because it sounds highly unusual. >> it's interesting to make the case you just made how it's being setup as a cut out if you

will, to keep the word to himself what he's been told to do. therefore he'll do terrible requests of the ukrainian government. i want this, i want that keep pushing, pushing, push s. the way the president set that up in his conversation with president zelinsky was to say this guy is mayor of new york, he's a great lawyer. in other words investing him with this incredible authority to do all kinds of dirty work. i know what's going on here and you did, too. he's telling him deal with this guy, he's going to be a little rough, but he's my guy. >> that's frequently the way it happens in cases of corruption, you have some sort of intermediary and that is shield for the higher level person. they can say i didn't know what was going on, they can speak in code. it's a way to distance yourself from the dirty work that's being done. >> what the hell was the name

william barr doing in kiev? and the president also saying you're going to hear from another guy, you're going to hear from bill barr, my stooge at the justice department. here it comes. >> i don't know. and barr himself has denied he had any communications with ukraine. i think it demonstrates while barr shd be excluded from being disclosed. there is a conflict of interest there for william barr who has an incentive to keep his name out of it and besmirching his name. the fact he was involved in that decision strikes me as a cop flict of interest. >> great insight into the law and its surroundings. up next the white house hands out talking points on ukraine. and republican congress people waste mow time reading their lines. it's mind-boggling how these people say what they're told to say. you're watching "hardball." ey'r

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welcome back to "hardball." nbc news reports that earlier today republican lawmakers were invited to the white house to coordinate their messaging ahead of the release of the memo on trump's phone call with the ukrainian president. isn't that sweet? the white house also sent out talking points to congress, which republican congress people echoed throughout the day. the memo titled "what you need to know" states that there was no quid pro quo for anything else inappropriate about the conversation. >> there is no quid pro quo. >> from a quid pro quo aspect of the phone call, there's nothing there. >> it continues, the president wanted allegations of corruption potentially involving an american official to be investigated. >> i think it's very appropriate for the president of the united states suggests that you've got

a corruption problem. >> you have president zelinsky and president trump both climting one another for trying to root out corruption. >> the memo calls the whistleblower's account a second hand account. >> if you're going to base it on a press report from a secondhand person who thinks they heard something, and that's the most you've got -- based upon a whistleblower that wasn't even listening to a conversation. >> and accused democrats of endangering our national security. >> we're now in a situation where not only have they hurt national security, but they're fundmentally abdicating their constitutional responsibility. >> it was a dark day for national security. but you are willing to jeopardize the national security of our country today and in the future because of your own political bias. >> it's like a woody allen movie. the keyword here is national security. anyway, the president retweeted statements that reflected those talking points throughout the

day. however, in contrust to the public confidence many republicans displayed towards defending the president, their public confidence, it's a very different story in private. and that reporting is coming up next. republicans in the back rooms are not happy with this president and his dealings with ukraine. you're watching "hardball." wit ukraine. you're watching "hardball. with my hepatitis c, i felt i couldn't be at my best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured.

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"the washington post" robert costa reporting tonight several senate republicans were stunned wednesday and questioned the white house's judgment after it released a rough transcript of president trump's call with that ukrainian president. a anonymous republican told "the washington post" that the transcript release was a huge mistake while the party argues at the same time that house democrats are overreefrpiaching their impeachment inquiry. anyway, two senate republicans openly called the memo troubling. >> i did read the transcript. it remains troubling in the extreme. it's deeply troubling. at this stage the process is to continue gathering information, but clearly what we've seen from the transcript itself is deeply troubling. >> republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons and say there's no there there when there's obviously lots troubling there. the administration ought not be

attacking a whistleblower as insuggested they plan to do. >> a contributing columnist out of the "the washington post" and michael beschloss, #'s presidential historian. it seems to me that the republicans unless you're a m mormon -- i'm sorry unless you're a romney from utah, it's scary. when he's been caught in the act of dying foreign policy, foreign military aid for dirt on a partisan apoopponent? >> because they don't think the president has been caught yet. because they can't see that in their home districts and states where among republicans the president still enjoys tremendous success. but you can see some of the cracks, you know, coming alive. >> is there anything inside those maga hats? >> that's a question for them. i'm not really good on red hats, but i do think that republicans

are going to -- some of them are going to try to walk a very fine line until they really know where this president is going, and i think democrats are on the right path to try to get to the truth. but they've got to be very careful in how they do it. >> the republican party at its best has been a party of fiscal responsibility. the party of individual self-identity that you are not a part of an identity group, you're not part of a society -- they're just individuals, where's the individualism in the republican party today in. >> it's changed a lot. but, chris, historically even impeachment processes that ended up with impeachment like richard nixon's you remember how long -- >> well, they ended up with a house call for impeachment. >> it took a long time for republicans to come out against nixon beginning with edward brooke and going on with jim buckley. that was like four or five

months after the saturday night massacre. and the other thing is if you go back to the constitution, the framers historically when they wrote about impeachment and came up with this sanction they did so not knowing there are political parties in this country. >> supposed in 1940 -- in 1940 winston churchill basically the last stop on the nazi claim to europe, the only guy fighting, he calls up roosevelt, and he said i really need some destroyers, maybe 50 of your old ones might do and roosevelt said, i have a favor i want from you, though, i want you to get some dirt on my apope want in the next election, how far we have fallen because that's unimaginable. >> that's right. but here's where the president got it wrong. he believed in the white house releasing this summary, not really transcript but summary was going to somehow exonerate him. i actually think it dug him further --

>> why do you think he thought that because it's there, these two lines, we need these missiles to fight the tanks with, and he said, yeah, but i need some dirt on my opponents. >> but he's transactional and he didn't say specifically in exchange for those missiles this is what -- >> but he said you better give me some dirt. i agree but in the president's mind he's so transactional he didn't make that transaction so he didn't believe it was the kind of thing to come back to haunt him. >> he was just trying to trade barack obama's senate seat for some personal political stuff. he didn't think there was anything wrong with that. >> might also felt he would get some points for transparency. >> in 1999 then congressman lindsey graham said impeachment was about restoring integrity to the office. >> impeachment is not about punishment. impeachment is about cleansing the office.

impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. >> well, lindsey graham's definition of impeachment seems to have changed iptn the last 2 years. here he is last night. >> the only reason they're trying to impeach the president is because they don't believe they can beat him at the ballot box. >> here's how he responded today. >> if you think the president has soiled the office, do something about it. if you think this is an impeachment offense, vote, go on the record. >> i'm with him. michael? >> well, and the other thing, you know, is that when these processes begin, they go in ways that you can't predict. we kaept predict how this is going to -- >> i'll predict if it takes as long as you're suggesting it's not going to work out. >> maybe not. and republicans in '98 thought this was something that was

going to help. >> i looked at the o.j. trial, i don't think we got more clarity as it went in. thank you, don edwards, michael beschloss. "hardball" back in a moment. l beschloss. "hardball" back in a moment. your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on. you get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. you get fast and free shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. that's what you get when you've got wayfair. so shop now!

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plus get $250 back when you buy a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today. bill clinton won the presidency on a sharply focused highly disciplined campaign theme. it's the economy, stupid. well, right now is a vital moment in american history. the democrats in the house of

representatives have to seize that moment and not let it get away, away to other topics, other areas of complaint, other misdeeds by this president. the moment is the realization by the american people now that their president, their commander in chief tried conditioning military aid to an allied nation on its president delivering dirt on a trump political opponent. speaker pelosi gets it. she told democrats they need to strike while the iron is hot. so this is the threshold, the all important challenge to move now, act, bring an article of impeachment to the floor. this is the reality. they need to hold the moment and make this happen, to get the house to vote on impeachment, how he has so seriously abused his power. the information is here, the members of congress is here, the speaker is now here to lead. all that's needed now is to let it happen. don't let this historic abuse of

presidential power get driven away in a fog of subpoenas, deadlines and eroding headlines. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> like any mafia boss, the president didn't need to say that's a nice country you have, it'd be a shame if something happened to it. >> it's even worse than you thought. >> what those notes reflect is a classic mafia-like shakedown of a foreign leader. >> the damning evidence against president trump as he shook down the new ukrainian president for dirt on a political opponent. >> impeachment for that. >> tonight the latest on the impeachment investigation and just who supports it. one republican senator told me if it was a secret vote, 30 republican senators would vote to impeach trump. >> then the rest of the president's men. >>