live." "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now. >> thank you. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," no choice. in an exclusive interview on "morning joe," nancy pelosi calls this a sad time for america, saying the president gave democrats no choice but to start an impeachment inquiry. >> this is as serious as it gets when it comes to protecting the constitution of the united states, the oath of office we take. i think the president violated that oath. all the president's men. the whistle-blower's complaint alleges officials at the cabinet level were part of the pressure campaign on ukraine to dig up political dirt against joe biden including attorney general william barr. >> he's gone rogue. >> the attorney general has already recused himself from the standpoint of evaluated no credibility, zero. and the big chill. the president of the united states issuing a not so veiled

threat towards anyone who helped the whistle-blower at the center of the fire storm. >> you know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart, the spies and treason, we used to handle it a little different than we do now. and good day, everyone, i'm andrea mitchell. a big day here in washington. house speaker nancy pelosi zeroing in on the president's xwak interactions with ukraine. >> i think we have to stay focused as far as the public is concerned on the fact that the president of the united states used taxpayer dollars to shake down the leader of another country for his own political gain. >> and the president is firing back against the democrats on twitter. his angry also revealed when he addressed u.s. diplomats

thursday. diplomats gathered with their children and referred to the officials who talked to the whistle-blower as spies committing treason. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent kristen welker, nbc political analyst phil rucker, msnbc contributor joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney, and ned price, a senior director in president obama's national security council. kristen, the whistle-blower, at the center of this firestorm, nancy pelosi this morning on msnbc, and the president, clearly angry, we saw this in every single photo opportunity as he walked by the cameras at every moment during several days in new york at the u.n., really his attacks against joe biden, his angry building against nancy pelosi, all overshadowing most of his foreign policy goals during u.n. week. >> it was, andrea. and they continue to be in damage control mode here at the

white house, scrambling to figure out how to deal with this growing crisis that is, frankly, engulfing the trump presidency right now. as you point out, in rare form, he did not answer our questions this week, he took very few questions during that press conference. i can tell you he's back at the white house and discussions are under way over what sort of response team if any needs to be in place. top adviser kellyanne conway saying there is no war room. i can tell you he's getting advice from outside allies saying, look, you need to have a team response at the ready, a pr response at the ready because these headlines are not going away. those are the discussions here behind the scenes. there's also a sense that they just weren't prepared for this, because nancy pelosi had been so insistent she wasn't going to make this move. but of course her calculations changed as these revelations came forefront.

president trump, as you point out, andrea, lashing out in a number of different directions, including and especially at the whistle-blower during that event to thank u.n. members yesterday, which you pointed out. also on twitter this morning, let me read you one of his latest tweets in which he says, isn't a whistle-blower at all, in addition secondhand information that proved to be so inaccurate that there may not have been a leaker or spy feeding it to him or her, a partisan operative. those are the talking points you'll see from the president, andrea, and his allies. rudy giuliani at the center of this fire symptom as westorm ase similar charges. the whistle-blower acknowledges they don't have firsthand knowledge but is relying on

other u.s. officials. >> this is someone who has experience in intelligence, has experience as an analyst and understands how the interagency process works, clearly was getting information from a lot of people. it's a very lawyerly and clear statement acknowledging what he does and does not know firsthand and what he's not aware of. nancy pelosi, as we watched today on "morning joe" with joe and mika, was really focused like a laser beam on what she thinks should be the centrality of this inquiry, not the fallout from mueller, the unresolved issues, all the legal fights going on with the six committee chairs. they're not going to litigate this in the courts and, she said, go up against judges that what she said may have been chosen by the administration. >> it is wrong for any foreign

government to interfere in our elections. and here you have the president of the united states asking for that. they know how wrong it is. so it's wrong, as we saw with russian interference, and by the way, i think russia he'sas a ha in this, by the way. >> i think she's referring to that july 31st phone call from the president to putin following up on his july 25th very controversial phone call with of course zelensky, the new president of ukraine. was he reporting back to putin the outcome that have? was he talking about the weapons being released to ukraine or not? russia has a keen in this. phil rucker, "the washington post" has a lot of fresh reporting on all this, bring us

up to date. >> andrea, the questions you just raised regarding the president's conversations with vladimir putin are certainly not going to go away. there will be pressure, i imagine, from the democrats in the house who are leading this impeachment inquiry to try to get the transcript of that call as well and to get more information about any possible russia connections here. a couple of things are worth point out. one is that nancy pelosi he's a great deal of experience with this very issue. she was the top democrat for many years on the intelligence committee in the house, as she has said, this is her wheelhouse. by focusing on this issue, she knows exactly where she's trying to drive this impeachment train, narrowing the focus is not getting into the mueller stuff, not getting into the tax returns, not getting into the michael cohen hush money payments to the women who alleged affairs with the president. and then the other key element here is that that whistle-blower complaint was just so granular in the detail, it was not a complaint based on one sort of

overheard conversation or piece of information, but this whistle-blower corroborated information from a number of other officials in the white house and the federal government and put together a very comprehensive narrative about what was going on with the president and the ukraine. >> ned price, you worked as a cia analyst and were detailed to the national security council. you know about the way these phone calls are routinely noted by people in the nsc. there are usually eyewitnesses, people listening in. we'll talk more about that later. there's a lot of concern about the lockdown of the server, and the way the notes from the phone call, according to the whistle-blower's complaint, were overclassified and by being overclassified, it limited the distribution, it limited access to any future investigators. >> what's really happened here,

andrea, is that white house lawyers, apparently, according to the whistle-blower complaint at least, directed nsc officials to use the infrastructure, the server, as you put it, that we use to protect our most sensitive programs, our most sensitive intelligence, to effect a coverup. there were four especially chilling words in that whistle-blower complaint yesterday, "not the first time." the whistle-blower allowed that yes, it happened in this july 25th phone kraurl it wcall, it this top secret system, but there may be other calls out there where that same practice was used. the phrase, we've heard it too often in the trump era, it's the coverup, not the crime, i think in this case the coverup may lead to additional crimes. if there are additional transcripts on that server that have been covered up, we could find out more about what this

president has been doing, putting his own interests ahead of ours. >> your organization organized 300 former national security foreign policy officials in different administrations to protest who has been going on in national security and to say this impeachment needs to go forward in terms of the investigation. what if they cannot get access to that top secret code word record of other phone calls? what if congress cannot get the evidence? >> we learned from chairman schiff of the house intelligence committee last night that they have issued a preservation order to the white house to ensure that the white house doesn't try to destroy evidence and spirit these transcripts away. there is supposed to be the status quo locked in place. the fact is we have one whistle-blower, that we know. we know from that whistle-blower complaint that others in the white house including potentially senior white house officials were so concerned that they actually conveyed their concerns to the whistle-blower.

and so my suspicion is that even if the white house doesn't play ball, individuals within and around the white house who were privy to these calls may go to congress, may decide to do the right thing, may decide to put their country ahead of their president. >> joyce, let's talk about the law here. impeachment does not require criminality. it's high crimes and misdemeanors, as you know better than any of us. but there may also be violations of law. and the attorney general of the united states is directly involved. he's implicated in the whistle-blower's complaint. and we now learn that the whistle-blower tried different channels to get his or her information up, and that it went to the white house lawyers and it went to the justice department. and to our knowledge, bill barr never recused himself even though he was named several times in this complaint. >> that's what the reporting tells us, andrea. not only that he didn't recuse, but we didn't consider whether he needed to recuse. and that i think resonates

loudly to anyone who's ever worked in the justice department. there's no doubt that barr should have been recused from any consideration in this matter. what ultimately happens here is really very troubling, because when barr makes the decision that the dni can't send the whistle-blower complaint to congress and that doj will consider the matter, barr is making a decision about whether there's any criminality that can be prosecuted. and that's a decision that's within doj's purview when it's properly made. but barr goes beyond that. in essence, he cuts off any possibility of congressional review. he says, dfni, you may not send this information to the house intelligence committee, the inspector general for the intelligence community can't continue to investigate. this is william barr, the attorney general, acting as the president's fixer, not as the people's lawyer, yet again. >> voice, thank you so much. kristen welker, phil rucker, ned

price, thanks to you all. we'll have more on the exclusive interview with nancy pelosi in this hour. we had to show you this clip of pelosi responding to what she calls a sexist attack from kellyanne conway. >> kellyanne conway, who is i guess still at the white house, at the atlantic festival yesterday, saying nancy pelosi did the worst thing a woman in power can ever do, which is change her mind in matter of hours on something so significant, acceding to the angry mob, insisting that she move toward impeachment. >> why would i have to comment on something she says? >> that is the correct answer, by the way. that is the correct answer. >> let me just say this. it wasn't a question of changing of mind. people say that to me, when did you change your mind. i didn't change my mind. the facts changed the situation and they cannot be ignored, no matter how sexist she wants to be.

>> nancy pelosi. not one to mince words. coming up on a very busy edition of "andrea mitchell reports," bob bauer on the handling of this whistle-blower complaint. and from the ukraine, nbc's richard engel sat down exclusively with the former prosecutor at the center of the storm who says he met with rudy giuliani ten times about an investigation into the bidens. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. free shipping. you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on. you get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. you get fast and free shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. that's what you get when you've got wayfair. so shop now!

doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. (kickstart my heart by motley crue)) (truck honks) (wheels screeching) (clapping) (sound of can hitting bag and bowl) (clapping) always there in crunch time. could another come aroundot, the corner. or could it play out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98% of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding.

don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling numbness or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planed medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be your moment. ask your doctor about eliquis. to the wait did frowe just win-ners. prouders everyone uses their phone differently. that's why xfinity mobile let's you design your own data. now you can share it between lines. mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need.

it's a different kind of wireless network designed to save you money. save up to $400 a year on your wireless bill. plus get $250 back when you buy a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today.

welcome back. today's "new york times" headline sums it up. it reads, "complaint asserts a white house coverup." nancy pelosi in that exclusive interview with "morning joe" today. >> i think where they're going is a coverup of the coverup, which is very sad for them. to have a justice department go so rogue, they have for while, now it makes matters worse, that the attorney general was mentioned, that the president was mentioned, yet the justice department directed the director of national intelligence to take this to the white house. >> "the new york times" is also reporting the whistle-blower first shared information about, quote, potential abuse of power and white house coverup with the

cia's top lawyer through an anonymous process who then shared it with the white house and justice department officials. joining me is bob bauer, former white house counsel to president obama, and of course you worked with joe biden in the obama/biden white house, we should point that out, you support joe biden's candidacy, just to put that out there, without being part of the campaign. bob, what about the process here? it took so long for the whistle-blower to get his other her complaint through the channels and then obviously the acting dni has been criticized for this, he has a stellar career in special forces and we shouldn't demean that, but that became, some would say, too much the focus of that three-hour-plus hearing yesterday rather than the substance of the complaint itself. but the fact is the white house was alerted, white house lawyers were involved at several levels, as was the attorney general who did not recuse himself. >> correct.

i'm going to back up for moment from the whistle-blower complaint. it's clear this was part of a long-running program that the president had launched to try to gin up charges against vice president biden through the ukrainian government's active complicity. that's what he was pressuring them to do. of course as we know, the explicit suggestion was if they didn't do what he asked, he would hold up the military aid, which he did suspend under suspicious circumstances. but it's not just what happened on july 25th in that phone call. at some point over this entire period of time, and bear in mind rudy giuliani is traveling on his behalf overseas, he's meeting with associates in the ukrainian government. >> and that was back in january and february. >> correct. and he's got contacts with the white house and apparently, he

claims, with the state department. who knew what when, and did nothing about it? even before we get to the whistle-blower complaint, if you observe that sort of behavior, that's presumably something that gets raised with the department of justice immediately through the white house counsel's office. that's not, as far as we know yet, something that happened, or if it did happen, the department of justice chose to do nothing about it. it seems to me there are channels you can pursue to try to stop that activity in its tracks. and there seems to what, if you will, either a conspiracy of silence or active complicity in a long-running program like this that the president was engaged in with rudy giuliani. >> so it came to the whistle-blower's attention when other national security officials were concerned about that july phone call. then when you take it back, we learn there's a very experienced u.n. ambassador to ukraine who is recalled only days -- recalled from kiev and forced out in may, only days after the

president has gone on fox television to complain about this former prosecutor in ukraine's allegations against the bidens. we also learn from the july phone call that the president was pressing zelensky, the new leader, to investigate the origins of the mueller report, which is something which foes back -- and hillary clinton's emails. there's some suggestion from the president on fox and also in that phone call that the 30,000 so-called missing clinton emails, which is a red herring, comey resolved all of that, that those, quote, missing emails are somehow in ukraine. >> yes. there's some very bizarre thinking taking place here. let me add one more thing. he's also apparently obsessed with finding some exculpatory evidence or fabricating some exculpatory story to clear paul manafort, who is a witness about

whom the president has had nothing bad to say, who was in cahoots with the president's lawyer when he was supposedly cooperating with the government, who has been a tried and true stalwart defender of the president's division, and he's now in prison. >> and a very well-paid employee, if you will, for the pro-russian ukrainian government back before the civil war. >> yes. the president is certainly obsessed with the injustice he imagines was dealt to paul manafort. that's also reflected in the phone call and in giuliani's public statements and his back and forth meetings. so who knows what he's trying to build toward here. >> are you smelling pardon? >> i'm smelling the basis for issuing a pardon, that's in his mind, basis for issuing a pardon. but events may have intervened, his plans may have come to ruin

on all that. >> bob bauer, thank you very much. coming up, the former ukrainian prosecutor at the center of the storm. you won't want to miss that, right here on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. s" on msnbc.

oh, wow. you two are going to have such a great trip. yeah, have fun! thanks to you, we will. aw, stop. this is why voya helps reach today's goals... ...all while helping you to and through retirement. um, you guys are just going for a week, right? yeah! that's right. can you help with these? oh... um, we're more of the plan, invest and protect kind of help...

sorry, little paws, so. but have fun! send a postcard! voya. helping you to and through retirement. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey.rkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. let me tell you something, i wouldn't be here if i thought reverse mortgages took advantage of any american senior,

or worse, that it was some way to take your home. learn how homeowners are strategically using a reverse mortgage loan to cover expenses, pay for healthcare, preserve your portfolio and so much more. a reverse mortgage loan isn't some kind of trick to take your home. it's a loan, like any other. big difference is how you pay it back. find out how reverse mortgages really work with aag's free, no-obligation reverse mortgage guide. with a reverse mortgage, you can pay whatever you can, when it works for you, or, you can wait, and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. discover the option that's best for you. call today and find out more. i'm proud to be a part of aag, i trust em, i think you can too.

we do -- it doesn't have to drag on. it's no use to say by such and such a date. but looking at the, shall we say, the material that the administration is giving us, they are actually speeding up the process. >> nancy pelosi on "morning joe" today outlining a very rapid impeachment process focusing on the whistle-blower's revelations. the house intelligence committee will be working through next week's congressional recess and may be holding another hearing as it negotiates to try to talk to the whistle-blower him or herself. joining me now, former democratic congressman joe crowley, former chair of the house democratic caucus, and michael steel, former senior adviser to jeb bush and former spokesman to house speaker john

boehner. welcome, both. to you, michael steel, we see the president, he's been reacting with fury on twitter and at every photo opportunity while he was in new york at the united nations. what do you think about the way republicans, especially in the house, are responding? >> i think that you've got different camps. you've got folks who are very supportive of the president who are rushing to his defense, talking about the deep state, various conspiracy theories. i think there are republicans, more in the senate than the house, who are visibly uncomfortable with where this is going, who are asking questions, demanding transparency. and a big group in the middle is waiting to see where the chips fall. >> the senate intelligence chair, richard burr, has not stopped any of this, in fact is supporting it. mitch mcconnell letting that unanimous consent go forward. >> yes. >> to actually let the process continue. >> the senate in particular has

an interest in establishing the legislature as a co-equal body and making sure we can do oversight of this president and other presidents going forward. they guard their institutional prerogativ prerogatives, that's what you're starting to see here. >> they haven't been to date, generating a lot of criticism. nancy pelosi is navigating among different factions in her caucus. there was a lot of criticism about chairman nadler's handling of the hearing regarding corey lewandowski. >> i also think this is a very select committee in many respects. the speaker in this case, or the leader, selects the people who are on this committee directly. and they're the cream of the crop in many respects, many of them former prosecutors themselves, people who know how to delve into these issues and ask the probing questions you need to ask.

i do think yesterday they tended to focus too much on the process and not on the content and the context of the information itself and the evidence and the law breaking, quite frankly, that has taken place. i think they're going to move towards that. they had the director before them yesterday and maybe it was a little bit more of a process, you have to get beyond process and lay it out to the american people, the straw that broke the camel's back, what is it that makes this different. >> and it's national security. we're not talking about emolumen emoluments, a word that most americans don't understand. this is something people get. in the end it could also be vladimir putin, because we're talking about ukraine. >> right. i think mr. crowley is exactly right. i understand the need for an expedited process but house democrats need to make the case to the american people, number one, the facts, and number two,

why it's wrong and why it matters to our country. >> mike turner, very much a republican and supporter of the president, he had this comment about the national security issues involved. >> i've read the complaint and i've read the transcript of the conversation with the president and the president of the ukraine. concerning that conversation, i want to say to the president, this is not okay. that conversation is not okay. and i think it's disappointing to the american public when they read the transcript. >> now, someone like mark meadows from the freedom caucus who is so much in the president's camp, not on the committee, there was an interesting moment there when those sitting in the room saw him peering through the door, watching there in person. he could have watched it on television, he didn't have to be in the doorway. >> of course. the president's diehard supporters are continuing to try to impress the president with

the stride nsy of their defense of him. >> nancy pelosi said all along she was resisting an impeachment inquiry or impeachment because it would backfire politically. it was going to die in the senate anyway, so why go through the motions in the house. has it reached a tipping point where public opinion is gunning to be more supportive of impeachment, joe crowley, and it may not be as toxic for democrats, especially after those seven democrats came out, a number from swing districts, who had come from trump districts, all had national security backgrounds, these women in particular who came out in support of it? >> it's those particular women who came out and said, we're from marginal districts, we can lose our seats quite easily but we think this is about the values we hold dear as americans, our constitution. they were willing to take that political risk, saying to other democrats, we're willing to do

this, you should be too. nancy pelosi doesn't believe in using impeachment as a political tool. she wants people to use the electoral approprocess. but i think this is the straw that broke the camel's back, she didn't have any choice, the president has broken the law and she has to act. >> that is a subject that has to be proved and established if the committee can do its job. ive i have to say, nancy pelosi was the top house democrat on the intelligence committee for years. this is her strength. she does count votes very well, but national security has to be the central issue. >> absolutely. >> thank you very much, michael steel and joe crowley. next, nbc's richard engel live from ukraine with that exclusive interview with a person with a key role in the

issue gripping the nation. ippin. panera's new warm grain bowls are full of good.

full of flavor. color. full of... woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. order now on doordash. so much more than i could have imagined. my grandfather was born in a shack in pennsylvania, his father was a miner, they were immigrants from italy and somewhere along the way that man changed his name and transformed himself into a successful mid-century american man. he had a whole life that i didn't know anything about. he was just my beloved grandpa. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com

for a restless night's sleep. lipain settleer before. there's a better choice. aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12-hour pain-relieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. so you feel refreshed. aleve pm. there's a better choice. i need all the breaks as athat i can get.or, at liberty butchemel... cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

rudy giuliani's lobbying campaign in ukraine included several conversations with the country's former prosecutor who was tasked with investigating the allegations against the bidens including the suggestion that the two countries establish a joint commission to investigate. this according to new reporting from nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel who spoke with former prosecutor

yuri lutsenko earlier today. lutsenko was hired by the previous government in ukraine, has no legal training, and is featured prominently in the whistle-blower's complaint for series of public accusations about the biden family, many of which he later had to walk back. he now says he is unaware of any violation of ukrainian law by either biden. >> how many times did you speak with, in person or over the phone, with rudy giuliani or his associates? dozens of times? >> i don't remember. i've had, i assume, some 50, 60 phones per day during three difficult years in office. with mr. giuliani, i met twicely, and twicely i spoke about --

>> those were physical meetings. what about communication, emails? frequent? >> i think that it is not public question, about my phones, they're not connected with ukrainians' cases. >> no, i'm talking about -- and i'm not asking for the records, i'm just saying were you in regular contact with him? >> no. no. they were irregular contacts. but yes, i have spoken with him, maybe ten times. >> ten times? >> maybe. >> always about this issue? >> this and other even political issues. >> nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel in kiev. and ambassador michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia and an msnbc international

affairs analyst. richard, central to the whistle-blower's complaint with rudy giuliani. why was the president's private lawyer working for the state department, working in coronation, meetings arranged for him by this envoy, the special envoy for ukraine, for the state department? why was that at all appropriate? and also the president in his phone call with zelensky, the new president of ukraine, he brings up the whole issue, the president brings up the whole issue of investigating the clinton emails. he's also looking at that, as was giuliani in a number of his comments. >> so we had to drag it out of the former prosecutor, who just left his position about one montgomery a month ago. he did confirm he was in fairly regular contact with the president's lawyer rudy giuliani. i went and spent quite a bit of time with the former prosecutor and asked him, well, what were you talking about, what was the

subject of these meetings and these phone calls? and a lot of it was about the bid bidens. it was about specifically hunter biden when he worked for ukrainian energy company called burisma, and rudy giuliani wanted to know if there were impim pr impro p improprieties, wanted to know about hunter biden's time with this energy company. the former prosecutor said he was happy to cooperate with whatever the united states wanted. you have to look at the larger context, you're talking about a former prosecutor in a country at war with russia right now. he was proudly saying how his own son has fought in the eastern front against the russians. it is the subject that is on everyone's mind here. part of the country is occupied by russian militias.

so president trump withholds about $400 million of military aid to ukraine, military aid this country desperately needs, otherwise it could lose even more territory. and while that aid is being withheld, rudy giuliani is here talk to the former prosecutor, then the active prosecutor, asking information about the bidens, asking information about hunter biden's time as a paid consultant for this energy firm. it's not at all surprising that this official said, hey, we'll do whatever you want, we're happy to provide you information, we're happy to allow americans to investigate it. he said they investigated already in this country and didn't find any specific violations of ukrainian law, but he said if the americans want to investigate it, go for it. >> of course that's exactly what giuliani and the president were pressing for.

and the u.s. ambassador to ukraine forced -- recalled during this period, last april and may, and is ousted, clearly not happy about all this back-channeling. mike mccall, you worked for the nsc, you were ambassador to moscow. rudy giuliani was representing himself as part of the state department anyway and apparently he was, he did have that credential. >> first, shoutout to richard engel for tracking down yuri lutsenko, that's fantastic reporting, i look forward to the rest of that interview. i want to make clear that lutsenko is not the prosecutor general that vice president biden and the european union and the imf was pushing to fire, that's mr. shokin.

they were pushing for shokin to retire, that happened, and mr. lutsenko took over, someone i've known for long time. you can see from the reporting that richard did, he opened the investigation of the bidens and burisma, he looked into this, interacting with giuliani. it's just in the right to say by reducing mr. shokin, the case was closed. second, just as a former state department official, white house official, why is rudy giuliani talking to the prosecutor general of ukraine? he's representing the president of the united states as his personal -- his client. what on earth does this have to do with president trump? and i think we need to understand exactly the circumstances under which these now it sounds like ten different interactions with the prosecutor general of ukraine was taking place. i really don't understand it, it sounds unprecedented to me.

>> before we get back to another quick bite, piece of sound from richard's interview, michael mcfaul, one other thing the prosecutor is pressing is to go after the hillary clinton emails, he's going after the origins of the mueller probe. he does seem to be trying to be able to take paul manafort, there's a lot of suspicion about that and we're also hearing, you know, what happened in the putin call. there was a call with putin on the 31st, only days later. we don't have any record of that, mike. >> two things. obviously president trump was trying to relitigate 2016 and he had two lines of argument, right? one is that the ukrainians exposed corruption of mr. manafort, which they did, by the way, elected officials the ukrainian parliament, and he wants to probe into that. two, out of the blue, bringing

up crowdstrike, the private security firm, cybersecurity firm that uncovered the original russian attack on the dnc, he somehow thinks ukraine had something to do with that. i know this story pretty well, i know the company crowdstrike. i've never heard of the ukrainian connection, that was really bizarre to me that the president was bringing that up. it's obvious they're trying to tie the ukrainians writ large to somehow that they were the ones that started the investigation, you know, of the russians in 2016. >> and lutsenko also told richard engel this about his investigation of the bidens. >> did you find any corruption by then vice president biden, or abuse of power, or corruption by joe biden's son hunter? >> i can declare that i don't know any possible violation of

ukrainian law, once again, ukrainian law, by biden and by the junior. >> that was the junior biden. richard, i know he's not a lawyer and you'll have a lot more coming up on "nbc nightly news" and throughout the day right here on msnbc. >> well, he also went on to say while he didn't find any specific violations of ukrainian law, again, don't forget how weakened this country is right now, parts of it are occupied by russia. the ex-prosecutor said, hey, if rudy giuliani or others want to investigate, we are more than willing to help, just don't hold us over a barrel again. that was the context that he kept providing, that they are willing to help, because frankly they don't have a lot of choices here. >> ambassador mcfaul, thank you.

richard engel, as always, thanks to you. tune in to "nbc nightly news" tonight for more of richard's interview and throughout the day here on msnbc as well. coming up, phonette ette iq. you're watching msnbc. quietly running the world. creating jobs and fueling the economy. you're small business owners, and there's nothing small about your business. that's why with dell small business technology advisors. you'll get tailored product solutions, expert tech advice and one-on-one partnership. to help your small business do big things. call an advisor today at 877-buy-dell. ♪ i am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. raise your steins to the king of speed.

full of tasty, good for you ingredients. fresh and filling. so that you too will be full of good. try our new warm grain bowls today. order now on doordash. pain happens. saturdays happen. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions.

fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself.

pain happens. saturdays happen. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. it's my special friend, antonio. his luxurious fur calms my nerves when i'm worried about moving into our new apartment. why don't we just ask geico for help with renters insurance? i didn't know geico helps with renters insurance. yeah, and we could save a bunch too. antonio! fetch computer! antonio? i'll get it. get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance.

the whistleblower revelation is shedding new light of a president disregard of his call. annie carney reports president trump ignored guidance from the security council. annie carney is the white house correspondent is joining me now. great details. how this was limited after the disaster leak from the australian and the mexican leaders and tightly control even

at the presidential level. >> that's right. call with the australian prime minister and the next kin president. what happened was they limited. it is fed into president trump's paranoia. what they did was instead of sending these rough transcripts of the calls to state department to the defense department, they started doing distributing these copies read out to the calls as quote on quote eyes only document that would go to the cabinet's level principles that they would not be allowed the keep it. the circle of people that had access to these calls got smaller and the whistleblower's case we see something more extraordinary which was such concerns of the content that was called. it was filed in a secret place

than a standard call. on the standard leader call, they tried to shrink the circle of people who get a good look at them. >> it is an indication because he or she said so in the whistleblower complaint there were other occasions. this july 25th phone call may not be the only one locked down in the over classified. >> yes, that's full of intrigue. what other reasons we are concern about and we are not locked down on it right now. the process of trump connecting with foreign leaders, the process have not changed of last administration of what i was told referring to the story. what has changed that trump does nod read the briefing he's given for the call. he waives away the person and

chat with the national security advisor. he conduct these calls as the same ways he took meetings at trump tower. we know what he sounds like and he sounds like himself in these calls. >> exactly what people want to know what he says to putin. more to come. i know you are working on the story. annie carney, thank you so much. we'll be right back. rney, thank. we'll be right back. without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme.

without it, i cannot write my name. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪

♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. ♪ performance comes in lots of flavors. ♪ (dramatic orchestra) there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ here, hello! starts with -hi!mple...

how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? everyone. let's send to everyone! [ camera clicking ] wifi up there? -ahhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today.

a big day. thanks for being with us throughout all this. follow us @mitchell reports. here is chris jansing for "velshi & ruhle." >> it has been a busy month this week. thank you so much andrea who's been back and forth in new york and washington. it is friday, september 27th. i am chris jansing. coming up on "velshi & ruhle," a historic week in the u.s. we are following all angles of an extraordinary story, allegations that said the president of the united states violated the constitution and used his office for political gain. we'll look at democrats' path to impeachme impeachment and what nancy pelosi told msnbc about this strategy moving