pretty long week, but i will see you back here if you join me monday 6:00 p.m. eastern. as always, thank you for watching. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. weeks, not months. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. today marks the end of the most consequential week of donald trump's presidency, a presidency that now faces the dire threat of impeachment. that impeachment drive is fueled by one central realization, that the president has proven his readiness to deal away the national interest in favor of his own. by freezing military support to ukraine while soliciting dirt on a political opponent trump used the power of his office to extort a u.s. ally. quote, i would like you to do us a gav, though. trump told ukrainian president

zelensky when zelensky asked for the missiles he needed to defend his country from the russian tanks. the favor he wanted them to deliver dirt whether true or not on democratic front-runner joe biden. trump has admitted on the conduction in question. the white house confirmed of his conversation. and officials around the president showed consciousness of guilt by attempting to hide it. those are the facts underlying speaker nancy pelosi's commitment to an impeachment proceeding on this president. >> i think we have to stay focused as far as the public is concerned on the fact that the president of the united states used taxpayer dollars to shakedown the leader of another country for his own political gain. the rest of it is ancillary. it wasn't a question of changing of mind. people say that to me, when did you change your mind? i didn't change my mind. the facts changed the situation,

and they cannot be ignored. >> well, with pelosi's backing now democrats are on message and moving expeditiously to capitalize on their momentum with some working through ruses this week. panic has now set in at the white house where according to one source aides are quote increasingly wary that the president could respond erratically and become unmanageable. trump's fury was evident today where he toiped to attack democrats and defend his behavior as being perfect. meanwhile, there's breaking news tonight democrats on three committees issuing a subpoena from one of the president's top aides, secretary of state mike pompeo. he has until next week to turn over relevant documents to the committees. and chairman schiff said tonight more subpoenas and investigative steps will occur next week. i'm joined now by eli stokels, los angeles times white house reporter, elise, paul butler,

former federal prosecutor, and jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense. and i want to start with eli. summarize the consequence of this week. >> well, i don't think you can overstate how big a week this is. this may be a turning point in this presidency. although we may get to november of next year and look back on this as a blip. at this point we don't know. but it's safe to say this president is facing the most dire political situation of his tenure so far, and we didn't see him today. you saw the rage tweets this morning, the 11 tweets. it hadn't really found a strategy, and there are a lot of concerns from people around the president inside the white house and outside the white house, campaign officials who worry he doesn't have much of a team around him at this point and who also worry -- one person told me today they're worried about his mental state. i know a lot of folks, the psychologists may be worried about that for some time, but these are people really close to

the president worrying now whether haesz going to be okay getting through this or if he's going to sort of implode and make things worse. they're concerned about the fact that in this case unlike robert mueller who he could attack and kn know he wasn't going to respond, they worry about nancy pelosi. one trump ally told me today they think of her as an assassin, they're afraid of her. and you see that with trump going after more adam schiff on twitter than pelosi. he's not able to guess what pelosi is doing from moment to moment and no one knows how this is going to go. >> nancy pelosi may be the most savvy politician of our time. i watched the way she waited for the opportunity. she may have wanted to get rid of this president for all kind of partisan political reasons, but she wasn't going to do it unless she had a sound real reason to get rid of him unless he abused his authority as

president. and now she has all she needs. once you force them to go aye or nay, they're all going to say aye, because i can't think of a democrat going home to democratic district and say i voted not to impeach this president. she's got the case, it seems to me. your thoughts. >> if you listen to the -- look at the transcript of the call and you look at the whistle-blower complaint, it seems very bad. and anybody -- what i really think, though ssh is where are republicans? >> why do you need to them to get to 218? >> you don't. but you do want his voters to -- >> why are you waiting for something that will never happen? >> i think you're going to see some cracks in the republicans especially in some of these swing states. and look, it is going to go to the senate -- >> a good argument.

what would be why you believe that? >> i have to believe that -- i have to believe that any congressmen or senator who vote -- >> the congressman from nevada is the first republican in the house to say they support the inquiry. >> you had romney come out, mike turner who's a very big supporter of the president say he looked add that whistle-blower complaint and he thinks it's bad. i'm not saying you're going to get enough of the senate to vote him out. but i think once this happens, i think the democrats are going to want more republican support. >> what do they need more? is this a jury that stays in three or four more hours longer, paul, because they know it looks good? we've had a cup of coffee, wait around a bit, we don't want to look like we're rushing this thing. >> do you want to get him or get him out? >> they're never going to get him out so let's go. you get two thirds of the republican senate -- >> no, i said i don't think so,

but you do want some republicans to say enough that they can't just say this is democratic witch hunt and throw it away. you're still going to go to an election and -- >> it may be nice to get a handful. your thoughts. >> so this week we learned the president of the united states directed a months long criminal conspiracy to shakedown ukraine, to get dirt on his political opponents. so one thing is to learn who the coconspirators are. so we understand that the message to ukraine was to reach out to giuliani, reach out to the attorney general. what happened? again, this isn't the first time that ukraine understood that if they got dirt on the president's opponents that something vital to their security would occur. because remember russia invaded ukraine. it's very vulnerable. it depends on u.s. military aid for its survival as a nation state. so in a very real way the

president was holding a gun to ukraine's head. and then the question for republicans and really the number is 20 in the senate, assuming that the president is impeached, he's got to get that two thirds vote in the senate. if all the democrats vote to remove him from office, he needs 20. so the question is are there 20 republicans in the united states senate who care enough about our national security and the integrity of the oval office to remove this man from office? >> jeremy, your thoughts about the whole situation with pelosi sort of got -- i think she's got it figured out what she wants to do. >> i think she smartly defined devancy up. she basically said that impeachment is a very high bar, and that only when the president's conduct is at question. and by the way this the most serious impeachment allegation of any president in our nation's history. this is much more serious than lying about sex in the '90s or during the andrew johnson era

and the tenure act. we care not about the coconspirators, we care about presidential conduct, abuse of office and we care about whether or not he abused that office to benefit himself politically and violate our national security. it's a pretty straightforward case if you look at the transcript -- >> paul, make the case why it's important to bring in the fellow conspirators here and that of barr as well? >> part of that is you want to make as strong a case as you can any way to get the republicans onboard is to have overwhelming evidence of the president's criminality. so we know 12 people at least heard this call. it's going to be presented as secondhand information from the whistle-blower. to be sure, the smoking gun is the president saying do me this favor, and it was very obviously connected to the military aid, but again, you want to make the case as tight as possible. we're not talking about months. we're talking about weeks. >> it's a tight case. i don't think that's a smoking

gun because he doesn't say if you don't do this for me i'm going to with hold the aid. obviously that's the -- >> i thought he did say that. >> it's a smoking javelin. he said -- >> i want a favor from you, though. you're not going to get this except this. >> it's not just about trying to shakedown a foreign leader. it's about the use of the instruments of state. it's about talking to the white house officials about putting in another server and containing -- >> let me ask you about some, if they had an electronic word for word transcript, is that written, typed up electronically, robotically by listening to the conversation or does it come off of a tape? >> i think they had a sten a stenoographer listening live to that conversation. >> when the president threatened

the whistle-blower's sources, let's watch. >> i want to know who's the person that gave the whistle-blower -- who's the person that gave the whistle-blower the information? because that's close to a spay. you know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart, right? with spies and treason. we used to handle them a little bit differently than we do now. >> so this is someone who led the spy, or in other words the cia agent perhaps in information on what the president was doing. it wasn't like they were smuggling it out to outside people. this is all within the inner circle of apparently a white house tasked cia agent -- you know, someone who's really there. so what would a spy be here? what would a spy be doing here? >> that's just the president letting you know how he feels about leaks and how he feels about loyalty. he believes any leak betraying him is a betrayal of the nation.

and that's why he's equating the whistle-blower and anybody who spoke to the whistle-blower to a spy and sayingtist great back in the old days what we used to do with spies and traitors. that's what the president was saying yesterday morning, 9:00 a.m., at the same time the acting director of national intelligence is testifying on capitol hill and saying that, no, the whistle-blower is credible, did everything right, followed the protocol, is worth listening to. that juxtaposition is something we've seen before in terms of what the administration is saying and what the president is saying. but this president has always kind of had a nostalgia for violence, wanted to intimidate people. and there was a strong reaction last night from chairman schiff and a few other chairman on the democratic side in the house saying that's witness intimidation and that is against the law. so-so they asked him to cease and desist but the message is already out. >> among those implicated is

ambassador, a special envoy to ukraine. it was volker who introduced joe biden to ukraine. >> i spoke to a source close to him just before we came on, he did give his resignation to secretary of state mike pompeo this evening. look, up until this point the administration was kind of pushing ahead on a new policy with ukraine, new government trying to crack down on corruption. they were giving -- they were talking about giving them aid, and then this all happened. and i think volker femt he wouldn't be able to be effective anymore. and this is the frustration for state department officials, and i'd like to really hear from secretary of state mike pompeo. i don't know if he's going to answer that subpoena, but he's

trying to serve his audience of one with the president but at the same time trying to get this policy ahead, and he's frustrated that rudy giuliani kept coming in and trying to, you know, make it about joe biden. and there was this kind of covert effort to try and contain the damage, try and help the ukrainians navigate this. i think they were really upset. they don't want to say no to trump because they need trump and need the aid, but they also don't want to say yes to trump because they like biden. they didn't really find anything, any evidence of wrongdoing and they know they're going to need the democrats later on. >> the president of ukraine, what about getting in to the -- you worked there. you get into the national security counsel, the staff people there, some professional, some political, they seem to, six of them, more than half a dozen according to the whistle-blower came forward with evidence of the president here. and then you have people in the president's cabal who would defend him against any attack,

they'll circle the wagons. are they ready to crumble or is it the usual battle lines? >> i think many of them heard the call or saw the transcript and said, oh, my god, we've got to cleanupa aisle 8, this is a horror show. i don't think many of the professionals at the nsc or the white house were winnen thoconspiracy. i think they were looking to figure out how to contain the damage. >> the damage to the republic or to trump? >> you're exactly right. i think they thought the president was going to be harmed and they tried to help him. >> that's not good. >> i agree. >> that's a cover-up. >> the attorney general appears to be participating in the cover-up. again he was named by the whistle-blower as one of the people that ukraine could reach out to. and one of the reasons he has to come clean to the senate if he's subpoenaed is for us to understand what was the cover-up? as you indicated a cover-up

indicates consciousness of guilt. it might not be independent grounds for articles of impeachment, but it sure makes them look guilty. >> i just think politically and i think about this all the times in politics. i think pelosi, the minute she called for a proceeding, called for a vote. maybe two months from now, maybe a little bit after christmas, which she says today i think she knows when she calls for a vote which is what she's done. it's going to be a certain number of weeks but it's going to happen. she knew she has to get to 218. she must win in her own house, her own majority. we're going to get impeachment. we may go further to convictions. we may get those 20 votes you get in the senate but i think we're going to start with impeachment before thanksgiving. that's my call. thank you. and thank you paul butler as always and thank you jeremy bash for your incredible experience in life. coming up, the case for impeachment. what constitutes a high crime,

and does extorting an ally for personal gain clear that bar? professor lawrence tribe joinds us live in just a minute. plus rudy giuliani runs for cover implicating secretary of state mike pompeo. others in the ukraine scandal. let's watch this. >> and his state department, you know, asked me to do this. so, mike, if you're unhappy with nee, i'm sorry, but i accomplished my mission. i have no idea if he's unhappy with me or not and frankly don't care. >> shut up, shut up, this is the way rudy is going these days. what's mike pence's role in all this? he's a little priestly back there in the corner. what's he really thinking? stick with us. e really thinking? stick with us. ok everyone!

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republicans we have to put country before party very clearly in the public view. and this is about the constitution of the united states. the clarity of the president's actions is -- is compelling and gave us no choice but to move forward. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was of course house speaker nancy pelosi earlier today making her appeal to the lawmakers as she leaves t-- leas the impeachment proceeding into the president's conduct. and now members of congress say they could potentially draft articles of impeachment in the matter of weeks. this may be the fourth time in our country's history a president's faced the imminent threat of impeachment. president trump would be following in the footsteps of andrew johnson, richard nixon. i'm joined by professor and author of "to end the presidency the power of impeachment." professor, tell us what's different now about the charge that now lies against the

president compared to all that we've discussed for the last two to three years? >> well, actually, what's different not only compared to the last two or three years but compared to the rest of our history including all of the prior impeachments is that this is the first time a president will have been impeached for violating his oath in a way that threatens national security in the sphere of foreign policy and military policy. we are now talking about not just what happened in the past in 2016, we're talking about what's going to happen to the 2020 election. and we have a case where the president of the united states deliberately withheld $400 million worth of desperately needed military aid that had been voted in a bipartisan way by congress from a vulnerable little ally of ours in europe under attack, military attack by

an adversary, russia that had helped this president win election and that now he's beholden to. this is the paradigm case. this is the case the framers had in mind. we've never had before, a case in which the president demonstrably and even by his own confession uses the power of his office, the majesty of his office not to serve the national security interests of america, but to serve the personal interests for re-election and perhaps eventual wealth and fame and power by the president. this is it. this is the case they were waiting for. >> well, let's talk about that and the language of the constitution, sir. high crime? is this a high crime we're talking about? >> this is the example of a high crime. it's a crime against the nation and an abuse of the ez fpreside

oath. that's what they meant thatch they didn't necessarily mean jaywalking or a tax violation or shooting someone on fifth avenue. those are crimes, but a high crime is a betrayal of the united states. >> let me ask you now about the evidence before us. it's unique beginning a discussion when you have the evidence before you in such clear terms. the language of the president's conversation with the president of ukraine. the language at least kept commemorated by the notes kept by the white house and national security staff. it does have that combination of sentences. the president of ukraine is asking for missiles to stop russian tanks, javelin missiles, a particular set of weapons he needs to stop the tanks from further coming into his country. the president saying i'd like a favor from you, though. stopping him in his tracks and saying this is what i want. what do we need more here? what more hearings or subpoenas

or citations for contempt? what more busywork does congress have to proceed to? >> well, citations for contempt aren't needed and essentially we already have the core of what we need. but the nation is going to demand and the congress is going to provide a flood of subpoenas to make sure that guys like pompeo and giuliani and barr and maybe pence are at least given an opportunity to come and tell their side of the story. but those subpoenas including the one that was issued today wisely to pompeo all have to have a terminal date. they can't be an excuse for dragging things out indefinitely. and what the house intelligence committee needs to tell these people is if you invoke some phony version of a nonexistent absolute imunity or executive privilege, we will infer against the president everything that we need to infer. we're not going to allow you simply to stone wall, we're

going to treat your stone walling as evidence not only of consciousness of guilt but of actual guilt. that's what has to happen. and we don't need more evidence, but we need to look for it and draw the right inferences from peoples refusal to provide it. >> i understand that you appreciated what i said last night about 1940 and what would have happened had churchill asked for destroyers, about 50 old destroyers, but our president said i won't give them to you unless you give me some dirt. >> and i like what you said. he wouldn't have to put it quite that way. he wouldn't have to say won't give them to you unless. that's a little bit crude. but if he had said i know you need defense and by the way i need some help against -- you know, it doesn't take a stable genius to connect those dots.

it seems to me that's what we've got here. it's really out in the open. and right now although there are risks to impeachment i agree that the 20 republicans might see the light. but there are bigger risks to nonimpeachment. whatever happens in the senate the house now has to do its constitutional duty if it cares as much as i hope it does about our republic and about saving our constitution. >> an even greater honor to know you're watching when you're not on. thank you so much. up next speaker pelosi says attorney general barr has gone rogue, gone rogue. as trump's allies fight among themselves now, giuliani against pompeo, that's a battle. something's gone wrong when you start fighting openly with each other and we're all watching it. stick with us. you're watching "hardball." l wa. stick with us. you're watching "hardball. (bang) good luck with that one. yes! that's why i wear skechers slip-ons.

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welcome back to "hardball." secretary of state mike poucmpe is one of the many officials in trump's close circle drawn into the ukraine scandal. after three congressional committees subpoenaed him this afternoon for documents in the impeachment inquiry. and it was volker who introduced rudy giuliani to a key ukrainian officials as giuliani sought dirt on joe biden. ininfighting over the growing

scandal has escalated with the president's dirty dig on rudy giuliani who's mentioned 31 times in the whistle-blower complaint throwing the first punch. giuliani repeatedly claiming he was acting the request of the state department. according to the whistle-blower volker was one of the two state department officials who had spoken to giuliani to contain the damage. adding among other things he believes giuliani's public statements have been problematic as his involvement overall with the ukrainian issue. in an interview with fox news giuliani said pompeo should be thanking him. >> i actually think they should all congratulate me because if it weren't for me nobody would have uncovered and faced massive corruption by the vice president of the united states. in fact, i'm a legitimate whistle-blower and his state

department, you know, asked me to do this. so, mike, if you're unhappy with me, i'm sorry but i accomplished my mission. i have no idea if he's unhappy with me or not. i frankly don't care. >> i love the police ambulances and the squad cars coming. i'm joined by katrina mulligan, and she's held supreme positions at the doj and office of director of national intelligence. thank you for your expertise and coming here. you know how these fights go. is it a case of pompeo being used by the president and his henchman rudy giuliani now getting caught up in it because he lent them a hand? >> of course. i mean, let's just underscore how just incredibly bizarre this situation is. mr. giuliani works for the president as his personal lawyer but is somehow then flying to

ukraine, meeting with the prosecutor general and being invoked by a phone call to say you should meet with giuliani, that should never happen, period. but in addition it should never happen to be pursuing the private interests of the president. and if you're the secretary of state, if you're anybody in the state department, this has to be just incredibly annoying to have to have dealt with this. >> so here's the president of the united states calling the president of ukraine. this is like a horse and rabbit stew. the president of the united states and little old ukraine that's vulnerable to the russians. he's saying if you want to deal with me, first of all deal with the stuff i care about. i care about getting dirt on my political rivals. you want your anti-tank missile, you want your javelins, well, here's what i want first. and by the way start dealing with my henchman. talk to my guy rudy. >> it's nice. there are many layers of problem

with the way that this has unfolded. you have somebody who's not accountable to the public, who is not confirmed by the senate, you know, going and inserting himself into the middle of u.s. foreign policy. and you have a president commingling his private affairs and the affairs of the united states of america. and at this point we can't figure out whose interests is he acting in, how do you untangle these things. and then you have the extraordinary inclusion of attorney general barr in this conversation. and you have the president suggesting that he meet not only with his private lawyer who, you know, represents him and is presumably being paid by him, and the -- >> his wartime consigliere basically. >> yeah, and the united states attorney general who works -- who took an oath to protect and defend the constitution and works for us. >> who also has a reputation as a roy cohn type and will do anything for this president.

the whistle-blower complaint also raised questions about mike pence's role and has presented a big test for the president's most loyal soldier. the vice president has been not addressed questions since the release of the whistle-blower complaint since thursday morning, hasn't said a word. and in may of this year the president instructed the vice president to -- meanwhile wall street germ reports privately against releasing, the vice president raised concerns about the pres dependent but ultimately fell in line with trump. after the notes were released from the whistle-blower president trump seemingly threw the vice president under the bus noting pence also had communication with the ukraine president during this same time period of the complaint. >> actually that was the second conversation. i should you should ask for the first conversation also.

i think you should ask for vp pence's conversation because he had a couple of conversations also. i could save you a lot of time. they're all perfect. >> ambassador, it seems to me imagine this from the point of view from the ukrainians. and i was thinking this poor guy needs trump more than trump needs him and he's willing to do anything to kiss up to him basically diplomatically. what's he think of trump and what's going on in washington? are we just a totally corrupt state now from the ukrainian point of view? >> i'd say two things. one to underscore what you just said, the asymmetry of power here and the leverage any president would have on the ukrainian leader, they need the leader of the free world to be on their side. he needed to have a conversation in that phone call and he went out of his way and i'm sure he

was coached to say you need to flatter president trump to get him on your side. and that was very embarrassing that transcript for him. but the second thing is the paradox of what you also pointed out, for years we have been lecturing the ukrainians to stop being corrupt, stop using political power for private interests. and that's exactly what the president of the united states was doing on that phone call. >> you know, ambassador, shadowing all this is what we know about the president's seeming on the hook to president putin, and my wonder is shadowing all of this is the idea playing tough with ukraine must have been wonderful news to putin. >> i couldn't agree more. and if the president's offering up transcripts of calls i want the putin calls. those would be extremely revealing because you're right. and another thing. notice what wasn't said in that phone call. you know, i used to do a lot of those phone calls with president

obama with leaders around the world, mostly russians. a normal call would have said i stand with you in your fight against russia. of course crimea should be returned to ukraine. we are going to continue to put the sanctions in place, we're going to maintain them. none of that was in that call. that is very disturbing if you're president zelensky fighting against president putin. none of that conversation we stand with you was in that phone call. >> it seems to be laced with pro-russian attitude. everything we watch from this president, what's he afraid of putin for? >> he's just not acting in american interests. you didn't hear about it because that wasn't the focus of inengagement. it was on trump's personal situation, his political situation and what he wanted to get out of the relationship. it's very transactional. >> and i keep thinking about deutsche bank and where that pass through money went there,

and i wonder why this president is so scared of vladimir putin. honor to have you on. and what a résume you have. up next washington braces for trump's scorched earth anti-impeachment play book. here it comes. he's going to slime everybody's and he can't wait to get to this whistle-blower. next on "hardball." o this whistle-blower next on "hardball. they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs... like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that. panera's new warm grain full of flavor, color,. full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today.

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you can wait, and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. discover the option that's best for you. call today and find out more. i'm proud to be a part of aag, i trust em, i think you can too. welcome back to "hardball." inside a shell-shocked white house right now a cornered president trump has been lashing out at democrats and of course the whistle-blower who exposed him. according to nbc news tonight there appears to be a rising sense of anxiety, unease and concern at the white house right now. president trump and his allies adopting a defensive crowd. start turning to a well-worn play book to divert attention. first they deny the crime. >> it was perfect.

i didn't do it. >> mr. king, did you read the transcript call with the president of ukraine? >> it was a nothing burger for me, the phone call with the president and the ukrainian president. >> then they discredit the person shining a light on the alleged criminality. >> this guy has got concerns with -- and the inspector general even told us he had a bias against the president. >> who was involved with this and why and was there a bias coming from this. >> and then they deflect attention to another person. >> there was no quid pro quo, but there was with biden. >> did joe biden do anything wrong? >> well, that needs to be investigated. >> when the story really comes out, it'll be the democrats that'll have a problem, not

president trump. >> well, the tactics are predictable of course but will they deliver the same results this time around? one republican senator isn't so sure and that's next. you're watching "hardball." impl, so you're not stuck in the 90s. wow, that tiny tv is the bomb. when insurance is simple, it's surprisingly painless. wow, that tiny tv is the bomb. ♪ (music plays throughout)♪ ♪ i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪

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with a 100% natural propellent. it leaves behind a pleasant scent you'll love. [ deep inhale] freshen up. don't cover up. febreze. welcome back to "hardball." amid the scandal republican congressman mark meadows of north carolina, a trump devotedy told "the washington post" he

http://seen this intensity of support. yesterday told slate magazine if there was an impeachment vote held in private over in the senate there would be at least 35 republican votes for. today he was asked to explain those comments on wbur. here's what he said. >> anybody who has sat through two years as i have of republican luncheons realizes that there's not a love for the president. there's a lot of fear of what it means to go against the president. >> nevada republican congressman told reporters he supports the house impeachment inquiry. he said, quote, let's put it through the process and see what happens. for more i'm joined by republican strategist and brepden buck, former chief communications advisor to speaker paul ryan. let me start with susan on this thing because we're already sitting around here thinking how's susan going to vote and

how's murkowski going to vote, how these people like gardener out there in colorado, these people are fringe republicans right now fighting for their lives. do they want to be voting to exonerate this president on a impeachment vote? >> they don't want to have to take that vote because they're going to be torn. i think mitch mcdonnell, he doesn't have to bring this up for a vote so maybe he lets it stay. but there are a few steps between now and then. i agree with you, chris, there's enough there to go after the president today and take the vote and he get impeached by the house. but i think it's important that they build their case for the american public. conduct the interviews, find the documents, lay it all out because what we're hearing from some republicans right now is let's see where this takes us. the other thing we have to -- that republicans are concerned about is how much the president lies. they don't have a trust -- a relationship built on trust. it is only built on fear.

>> well, we have the document, we have the notes put out in that hearing, that conversation with the president of ukraine. it's pretty much there and what the president is saying, i want the dirt on biden. you get your missiles, i want my dirt on biden. got it? >> i worked in the republican house conference for years and i can tell you none of them are turning on the president. he's already walked it back and put out a press release saying -- >> what keeps them together? >> a fear of a primary? people talk about fear of trump, it's really fear of the voters who are rabid in support of the president. and in the house republican conference the only election that matters is your primary. and in the spring is primary season. right now we're in filing season. >> that's exactly why i think nancy pelosi, the speaker will get almost all the democrats because this fear of a primary. it's the same deal. earlier today fox news anchor chris wallace, a great man, call the spin from some of the president's defenders deeply

misleading. let's watch chris wallace. >> the spinning that's been done by the president's defenders over the last 24 hours since this very damaging whistle-blower complaint came out, the spinning is not surprising, but it is astonishing, and i think deeply misleading. >> what do you make of this because wallace is on fox, independent, a real journalist, comes from a journalist background obviously. he and shepherd smith are the real deal as far as i'm concerned. >> i think it's important to appreciate, though, a lot of republican voters are getting their news from twitter or various places where there's a very different conversation going on than one in the main stream media. and a lot of people are hearing nothing wrong, not a big deal. most of all they're hearing it's joe biden's fault. >> they don't hear the president was holding up a foreign leader to get dirt on a political opponent. >> they don't hear it in the

same way that's being talked about in the main stream. they're hearing maybe he probably shouldn't have done that, or what's the big deal, or really it's democrats always wanted to impeach the president and now they found something -- >> a lot of them did want impeachment and they've found real stuff. i've been reading about the american revolution of the people for the revolution, those against it. and there were some people in the middle that didn't decide. it's all real and very american. but the question is why can't the fact of the president's betrayal of the country be true and also be hateful of the democrats. you can be republican and not like democrats but still see what the president just did and what's so hard about it? >> it's not hard and i think the message is very simple. donald trump put himself before this country. he compromised national secure. he's going to -- i do feel that the hearings will show this and a lot more.

and that's why i really do believe, chris, we do need to go forward and have the hearings, wrap it up like you said by thanksgiving but still get as many facts out there as you can that the people can read and see. >> i think what we most need is a vote. i think the democratic house has to vote in the next several weeks. i think we're going to find out on the weekend. it's going to be one article of impeachment, about did the betray this country for his own political purposes. that's the heart of it. it's pretty simple. keep it simple. thank you for coming on. up next, republicans have some soul-searching to do in the days and weeks ahead. i think everybody does. you're watching "hardball." head i think everybody does you're watching "hardball. that's why your cash automatically goes into a money market fund when you open a new account. just another reminder of the value you'll find at fidelity. open an account today. of the value you'll find at fidelity. plants capture co2.

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i think all americans have a vital question to think about this weekend and i suppose in the weeks ahead. it goes to our personal judgments as citizens of this country on what to do with the

knowledge that our president is on record now having our country's interest ahead of his own. i grew up praying each sunday, caring deeply for the captive nations, every reach for freedom would be crushed by russian tanks and now even with the cold war thank god behind us, it's hard to absorb the news an american president would extort political dirt from an ally by denying him the arms his country needs to deter further russian aggression. this is something we have to deal with in the days and weeks head. look, each of us as iss and a member of congress who will cast a vote on this matter, we want that member of congress to condemn this presidential abuse of power or condone it because if it is the latter, never again

complain about corruption or politicians out for themselves or the swamp in washington, because if we say that's all right, keep it up it's exactly what we will get and deserve. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> we should move with purpose and expeditiously. >> new signs that impeachment is moving fast. signs that trump defenders are crack. >> now, they were all over me, you know, asking me to do it. i was happy to do it. i helped my country. >> tonight former cia director john brennen on the corrupt abuse of power of donald trump. plus, just exactly how will this impeachment inquiry work, and as, quote, total panic besets the white house where is the president getting his conspiracy gibberish? >> do you believe they're in ukraine, do you think this