chris, donnie, most of all, thank you for watching. that does it for this hour. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. welcome to tuesday. it's "meet the press daily" and good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. we begin tonight with where this is a fast-tracked impeachment inquiry that may have been slowed down a bit and how the administration is trying to this wart it. we also have just learned from two committee aides that ambassador marie yavanovich, who was scheduled to testify tomorrow will now be appearing next week. this mushrooming scandal involving the president and ukraine has further implicated mike pompeo and bill barr. thanks to new reporting and new admissions, there are serious

questions about their involvement in president trump's efforts to get foreign governments to dig up dirt on trump's political rivals. a senior state department official confirmed that pompeo was on that infamous july 25th call between trump and ukraine's president. something he had a chance to tell us about, but he chose not to. but it also means that pompeo heard the president ask ukraine to work with barr and giuliani to investigate the bidens and look into the origins of the russia investigation. pompeo misled the press about what he knew about that call. >> "the wall street journal" is reporting that the president pressed the president of ukraine eight times to work with rudy giuliani to investigate joe biden's son. what do you know about that? >> you just gave me a report about a -- a whistle-blower complaint, none of which i've seen. i haven't had a chance to act l actually raactua actually read the whistle-blower complaint.

i read the first couple of paragraphs and then got busy today. but i'll ultimately get a chance to see it. if i understand it right, it's someone that had second-hand knowledge. >> pompeo chose to answer a question that he was not asked. as he feigned ignorance, just as department officials were trying to distance bill barr from this mess, as well, but in the wake of new reporting, justices now confirming that barr has asked the president to speak with a number of foreign countries about helping doj probe the russia investigation, which is what president trump did during part of his call with ukraine. so, we are left with serious questions for barr and their justice department, including not launching a full-fledged investigation into the president's communications with ukraine. we are left with new questions about where this impeachment inquiry is headed, after pompeo said he would fight those that were implicated. we have a lot to get into here. joining us now, jeff bennett. andrea mitchell, chief foreign affairs correspondent for nbc

news is here to talk about all things state. pete williams, our justice correspondent to talk all things justice. jeff, let's start with you and the news just breaking in the last few minutes, the change to the schedule, nothing tomorrow, but walk us through what we know. >> so, in just the last five minutes or so, chuck, our team has learned from two committee adds that marie yavanovich, he's postponeing her appearance. speaking to the joint house intellige intelligent, oversight and foreign affairs committee. she's saying she will appear to appear next friday, october 11th. that is the agreement between the committees and her counsel. we should be clear. that is her specific counsel, not the state department counsel. kurt volker, who was scheduled to appear thursday, rather, now confirms that, yes, he will appear on thursday, as was planned. our previous reporting on this

was that he resigned abruptly last friday after the whistle-blower complaint was made public, in part because he wanted to be able to speak more freely to congress. so, there are five current and former state department officials who were explicitly mentioned in the whistle-blower complaint that democrats want to hear from. adam schiff has been very clear about this, what the whistle-blower complaint, deemed credible, is now the road map that house democrats will use to further their impeachment inquiry. and now you have two of those former state department officials complying. they're willing to cooperate, they are willing to tell congress what they know. despite the letter that we saw from the secretary of state today, where he accused house democrats of witness intimidati intimidation, trying to bully the witnesses, the phrase that he used, chuck. >> i have an trea mitchell here, so, andrea, riddle me this. does pompeo have no control over volker but does have control over the ambassador? is that basically what happened here?

they worked out a deal with her and her lawyer, but explain what pompeo has control over. >> she's still an active foreign service officer. she is a career veteran who was obviously pulled back from ukraine. there's a lot of suspicion that she ran into this shadow diplomacy that rudy giuliani was running and objected to it and was not playing ball with the program, that mike pompeo mig might -- was not comfortable with, but went along with. so, he was trying to find out what giuliani was doing, but was going along with it, not objecting. she is still a foreign service officer. she needs to protect her people, she needs to protect herself. she's probably going to end her career over this, but is right now -- >> she had been removed from her post and doing what right now? just getting paid by the government to do? >> well, she's at georgetown and she's involved with the institute of foreign service there, so, it's -- >> waiting for her next assignment. >> like being detailed waiting

for your next assignment. i suspect, according to people who know her well and know her career, that she is going to leave the state department, but wants to leave on good terms and wants to make sure that people under her do not get retaliated against. >> all right, what about pompeo's deputy? he was supposed to be on this list, too. are we ever going to hear from him? >> that is -- that is unclear at this point. now, the -- the counselor, if you are talking -- >> how many of these folks are we going to see and how many won't? obviously the ambassador wants to testify. she's making the effort to do this. so far, nobody does other than volker. is that pompeo going to be that shield? >> yes, i think the short answer is yes, especially for his counselor. his counselor was his classmate at west point, then in kansas, went into business with him, funded, i should say, by the koch brothers. this was a defense contact there, electronics, i believe, when he was in kansas, part of

his world, then brought his counselor to the state department. i think it's very unlikely you would see him outside of the orbit of mike pompeii yoep. they are very, very close. kurt volker resigned on friday and that, i think, is the signal, i think you are hearing that on the hill, that he is going to testify and he will be open about this. >> does it say a lot about what mr. volker wants to do, if he could have hidden behind the pompeo statement today, couldn't he have? >> yes. but he's no longer there, it would have been harder for him to. foreign service officers are incredibly intestimony daimidat happened recently, let me just point this out quickly, this expansion of the email interrogation and inquiry has infuriated career diplomats and frightened them. if you are under the level as someone as esteemed as william burns, who was targeted by this, you are a career diplomat and

you, if you get several of these letters or this letter in particular, you can never serve again and you could be fired. >> all right, pete, let me move to mr. barr. do you feel like justice has been totally honest in barr's involvement in this? >> well, as far as we know. and -- >> do you feel misled? >> i don't, at this point. because they have said that -- let me put this in a little context. what they're saying is, look, barr has been candid, since april, that he wanted to look at how it was that the fbi and other agencies launched an investigation of the trump campaign. did they cross any lines, did they follow the rules and if they did follow the rules, do the rules need to be changed? he said in may, after the president said he wanted this looked into, as well, that he would appoint this u.s. attorney in connecticut, john durham, to look into this. and since then, he's taken a number of steps to further that investigate. >> seems to be babysitting this. who is in charge of this?

him or durham? >> well, he's not -- >> is it fair to say barr's leading it or durham? >> durham is leading the investigation, but the way justice explains it is, when durham needs the help of a foreign country, sometimes doors have to be opened. in some cases, the justice department says, a head of state, the president will call a head of state of a country, say, we need your help. in some cases, justice says, the countries want to hear from barr. and by the way, i've talked to a couple of former prosecutors today, i'm interested to hear what joyce will say, who say this is not unusual, that when the government needs the help of a foreign country, they do have to sometimes go to these high level exchanges to get things going. >> you know, it is interesting. the president himself sort of outlined the mission that he wanted mr. barr on back in may, let's take a listen to that. >>the attorney is one of the most respected people in this country, and he has been for a

long period of time. he's going to look at a lot of documents. some he might find interesting. maybe he'll find none interesting. he can look. and i hope he looks at the uk and he hope he looks at australia and i hope he looks at ukraine. i hope he looks at everything. because there was a hoax that was perpetrated on our country. >> i'm going to get into the -- whether it is at all, i guess, ethical for the president to ask for an investigation on that, we can have that debate separately, but essentially, that's what mr. barr has been ordered to do, what the president outlined. so, why did he teny t ndeny the story? >> well, what barr has said -- a couple of things, first of all, the justice department isn't saying -- they said, look, we understand that russia meddled in the election. we don't deny that. we're not trying to undercut the mueller report. we just want to make sure that

nobody committed a fowlerly -- >> the president is trying to do that. that's exactly the president's goal of the investigation. >> i understand that. that's point one. point two is, they are eager to draw a line between what they are doing and what rudy giuliani is doing. we were told over the weekend that the president, or, that the attorney general was angry and disappointed to find out what giuliani has been up to and what was said in this call and that his name was lumped in with giuliani in the known call. and finally justices said barr never knew about this phone call, this was not one of the phone calls barr asked him to make. >> what barr was asked to do last may, he was given the authority to declassify the most top secret intelligence that the u.s. government had, over and above dan coats, the dni. that set off tremors throughout the intelligence community, because that could mean unmasking the spy inside pew

ton's kremlin. and it was giving him authority over the director of national intelligence, and that was also a lightning bolt to the int intelligence community. >> well, there's a bunch of quick resignations in july and august that are going to be aport of this. barbara, let me bring you into this country, barbara mcquaid, and how unusual is it for an attorney if he's named somebody to do a special investigation, for the attorney general to then be the one to travel around the world, to try to personally do some investigating, why -- who is leading this investigation? >> i think it's very unusual, i have not heard of it happening before. i think in the past, attorneys general have traveled around the world to develop good rapport, to talk in general about their ability to share information with each other. i suppose in the course of those trips they might mention specific investigations, but in regard to a particular

investigation, to be traveling around the world to request information strikes me as highly unusual. i don't know if there's anything technically improper about it, but i think it creates this impression that the attorney general is there to settle scores for the president, which is an inappropriate abuse of that office that undermines the independence of the justice department and i think the public confidence in it. >> let me ask this. is there at all a referral to the i.g. that is legitimate in asking how barr made the decision -- when justice made the decision to not refer the i.g. report, the criminal referral about whether campaign finance laws were broken by the president. when jus does made the decision to saying there wasn't enough there to open an investigation. now that we've learned more about barr's role, i sort of have one of two questions. did barr essentially let the folks at the -- in the criminal

division know that they were doing this investigation and that's what this was about so don't bother, or did he not and therefore withheld information? do you see what i mean? to me, it just sort of opens up a whole bunch of questions about the initial decision not to take a criminal referral from the i.g.'s -- intelligence community's i. p g., i apologize for the acronyms here. but that referral was not passed on -- >> i'm not sure what you mean by referral and not passed on. >> well, they passed on a criminal referral from the i.g. >> they told the i.g. this doesn't fit the test of an urgent matter. refer it to us as a criminal investigation so justice, in essence, invited that, and i'm sorry to interrupt barbara here and i said joyce earlier, i apologize. barr did not sign off on that

referral. >> fair enough. there's a trust by verify thing going on here, barbara. since we know that barr is involved with the investigation he's doing around the world. >> chuck, i agree with you. i think in the past it might have been a much cleaner decision for william barr to recuse himself from that decision, because his name was included in that report. i think what he would say is, it was included in there, and it wasn't, in fact, true and there was no true conflict and no reason for me to recuse, but the mere fact that he kept that document out of the public domain with his name in it in a way that could be personally embarrassing, i think, created at least the perception of a conflict of interest and now, as you point out, it goes even deeper, because he, in fact, has been traveling around the world and those facts are coming out. so, his incentive to prevent the disclosure of that information, to prevent personal embarrassment or the asking of questions, i think, caused a genuine question for a reasonable question to ask of whether he should recuse himself. >> andrea mitchell, one thing

about mike pompeo, he went out of his way to not admit he knew more about the phone call when he was asked, twice, in different ways -- >> exactly. >> now, he didn't lie in that he didn't tell us he didn't know anything about the call. he went ahead and answered a question that was not necessarily asked about the whistle-blower report. you have an explanation as to why they handled it that way? >> no. the short answer, no. he's a harvard lawyer, he's a west point graduate. he's very smart. he has political ambitions. he acknowledged that recently, asked if he wants to run for president some day, he said, america's been good to me, paraphrasing here, i will serve in my way. so, this story is yet to be told. he is extremely loil lly loyal president. he's the only one of this national security team that has not been fired or pushed out. or quit. >> he's actually been promoted.

>> james mattis, john kelly, h.r. mcmaster, you know, go through the list, john bolton. so, i think he's trying to preserve his credibility by, quote, not lying, but deflecting. >> jeff bennett, before i let everybody go here, is there any hearing tomorrow, at all now, or is there going to be no public work on this investigation tomorrow? >> no public work that we know of. i mean, the house intelligence committee staffers are here. adam schiff was here, he was dressed casually. he was taking cups of coffee into the secure house intelligence area where the staffers are doing their work. we do expect to hear from nancy pelosi, the house speaker, she's holding a press conference tomorrow at 10:45 eastern. so, it's not unheard of for her to have a press conference while the rest of congress is on break, but i think in this instance, certainly, there's a lot of messaging that she wants to get out to the american people about where this impeachment inquiry goes. >> not unheard of, but not usual. not business as usual,it iteith.

jeff, andrea, pete, barbara, thank you very much. up ahead, to impeach or not to impeach. but how is the term even defined? as we look ahead to new polling and the public's interesting, it's a question that will have to be answered. e answered their medicare options...ere people go to learn about before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! well, you've come to the right place. it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here's why... medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. only about 80% of your medical costs. this part is up to you... yeah, everyone's a little surprised to learn that one. a medicare supplement plan helps pay for some of what medicare doesn't. that could help cut down on those out-of-your-pocket

medical costs. call unitedhealthcare insurance company today... to request this free, and very helpful, decision guide. and learn about the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. this type of plan lets you say "yes" to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. there are no networks or referrals to worry about. do you accept medicare patients? i sure do! see? you're able to stick with him. like to travel? this kind of plan goes with you anywhere you travel in the country. so go ahead, spend winter somewhere warm. if you're turning 65 soon or over 65 and planning to retire, find out more about the plans that live up to their name. thumbs up to that! remember, the time to prepare is before you go on medicare!

don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare and ask for your free decision guide. learn more about aarp medicare supplement plan options and rates to fit your needs oh, and happy birthday... or retirement... in advance.

welcome back. it's been a week since house speaker nancy pelosi officially opened an impeachment inquiry into president trump. whe so, where does the public stand on that question. at this point, americans appear to be more open to investigating the president compared to flat-out removing him. more than half support the inquiry. this question does not ask a final verdict on impeachment, just the issue of more investigating. now, compare that to support for impeachment and removal of president trump, which is hanging in the mid 40s. quinnipiac, 47%, cnn, 47%.

the silver lining is that the president's personal job appr e approval has seen little change. joining me now, michael steele, msnbc political analyst, and adrienne elrod, msnbc contributor. michael, i want to start with you on the polling. it does seem to me that -- i think we all need to get a grip on how we're asking this question and more importantly, how the public's receiving it. some people hear the word impeachment and think it's the ultimate, you know, it's throwing him out of office. some people think, have the correct definition. it is used so -- that i think it is -- i think that pollsters are making a mistake using the word right now. if we're trying to find out, do people think what the president did is worthy of more investigation? >> see, that's the key thing. that's the key question to ask. and i have to give the democrats, maybe as they sort of backdoor their way into this particular spot, but nancy pelosi, with all the

investigations that were going on 0 prior to this moment, sort of contextualized this idea of investigating the president. people saying, okay, we can investigate for the purposes of seeing, maybe there's an impeachment. so, from the polling, they kind of line it up way as to outright getting rid of the president. so, i think, to your question, is really where the pollsters need to go. should the president be investigated. do you think the president has committed a crime, or, committed behavior that should be investigated. and then see where that goes, because you're right, impeachment in and of itself people see is too political and they still have a negative view of it. >> how do you view this -- it's certainly a movement in one direction, it's not -- you know, it's a trickle and it does appear to be -- it's more democrats coming onboard with the idea of impeachment right now, not necessarily republicans. >> yeah, well, we are seeing some republicans and some inme

den pe independents want to see this process. if you compare to president clinton and where he was on impeachment in the mid '90s, less independents and republicans wanted that as opposed to now. look, a lot of these numbers reflect the fact that leader pelosi has been so methodical, so cautious, so careful in the way she's approached this. she stuck to the facts. she's invoked faith into her concern about having to go forward on this, wishing that she didn't have to do this. she's not turning this into a political football spectacle. she's focusing on, we have a constitutional responsibility to look into this and to see this through and i think that is why you're seeing more public sentiment in favor of moving forward on impeachment inquiry as you did compared to president clinton in the '90s. >> you are sort of seeing two different reactions from capitol hill. house republicans are basically

playing the type for the most part, handful here, handful here. but they are the most devoted members of his base. the ones that are left are the ones that survived the trump midterms. in some ways, it makes a lot of sense. the senators. when you have mitch mcconnell going out of his way to say, hey, the rules tell me i have to do a trial, and this is a guy, rules, where i'm going, there are no rules. this is mitch mcconnell. and then we have this from grassley today -- no one -- about the whistle-blower. no one should be making judgments or pronouncements without hearing from the whistle-blower first and carefully following up on the facts. uninformed speculation wielded by politicians or media commentators as partisan weapon is counterproductive and doesn't serve the country. they're hedging their bets, aren't they? >> the folks around the president have noticed that. i talked to someone today who said the president's biggest problem is, we expect we'llprobably get some

republicans to, you know, we'll lose republicans in the house, obviously, people who aren't up for re-election, stuff like that, but the president has no real friends in the senate, and the longer that this goes on -- and this person surmised that he could lose up to eight defectors in the senate, and that it all kind of -- and depending on the timeline, when filing deadlines pass and the primaries and they tonight need the v coffer of the president and also depending on a parallel track, where the investigation goes, what facts come out, you could wind up with donald trump's impeachment vote being one of the very few bipartisan things that happens in this congress. >> hey, john cornyn's filing deadline is in december in texas, michael steele. >> yeah. >> what do you make of mcconnell's movements here? are we overreading them? >> maybe a little bit. i think -- i think there's a little bit of that. the one thing i've always admired and cursed mcconnell for

is that he's a dodgy little fella. and sometimes he'll tell you what he thinks you want to hear, sometimes he'll tell you what he wants you to hear and so it just -- it just depends on this, though, i think to the point, there is, within the body o this to begin with -- >> yeah. >> number two, they don't want to be force fed having to stand and defend trump for a whole host of reasons. not just because of their re-election prospects. so, i think there's maybe a little softness there that mcconnell is reflecting more than anything else. >> atree yen, do you buy -- i saw some, i think a couple of, i would say, enthusiastic democratic staffers saying, this is -- this is going to be a great way to win the senate. >> yeah. >> do you see that? i was like, that's an interesting bank shot. >> not helpful. i mean, i think -- >> impeachment's about politics, isn't it? >> democrats have got to be so

careful. that's not just elected officials who have stake in the game here, this is also staffers, people who are tweeting, people who, you know, even if you're a press secretary for a low level member of congress, you've got toso careful because, you tell me, i would assume the rnc is monitoring everything. >> they want to politicize this. they want to make this -- correct me if i'm wrong, the more political it's seen, look, the trump folks don't care if they're seen by us as playing politics with this, as long as the democrats are also playing politics, right? >> any hint of glee. that's why you see nancy pelosi being so steady about, i pray for him, we're worried about him, you know, this sort of thing, this is a sad moment, any sort of glee, the trump campaign, the white house, they're ready to be on it. >> well, they're going after schiff, which is really sort of, for doing something that trump himself does all the time. he makes stuff up all the time, he overexaggerates. >> just that little thing that's

been snowballing, so, you're right. anything else bigger. >> and that's why the dnc has been cautious to take a step back and let this come from nancy pelosi. this comes from congress. this comes from the house and the senate, this does not come from the political organization that oversees the entities. >> let me sneak a break in here, carol, michael and adrienne, stick around and we'll be right back. stick around and we'll be right back an important choice to make. you can purchase a separate drug plan for an additional cost, or you can choose a humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan. an affordable, all-in-one plan, that includes your health benefits and drug coverage in one. in fact, last year, humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan members saved an estimated $7400, on average, on their prescription costs. with these humana plans, you get prescription drug coverage. you're covered when you go to the doctor, a specialist or the hospital. you get coverage for emergencies, even when you're

travelling. and you're covered for many preventive services like mammograms, pap tests and prostate exams. most plans even include dental and vision coverage. you get all this coverage for as low as a zero dollar monthly plan premium in many areas. licensed humana sales agents are standing by, so please call now. to find out if you may be able to save on prescription drugs, to see if a zero dollar premium plan is available in your area, and to find out if your doctor is in our large network - call a licensed humana sales agent. get the medicare coverage that helps support your evolving lifestyle. get the humana medicare advantage plan that's right for you. pick up the phone and call a licensed humana sales agent today. or, visit our website to see if you may be able to save. okay, paint a picture for me. uh, well, this will be the kitchen. and we'd like to put a fire pit out there, and a dock with a boat, maybe. why haven't you started building? well, tyler's off to college...

and mom's getting older... and eventually we would like to retire. yeah, it's a lot. but td ameritrade can help you build a plan for today and tomorrow. great. can you help us pour the foundation too? i think you want a house near the lake, not in it. come with a goal. leave with a plan. td ameritrade. ♪ ♪ ♪ create up to 12 combinations with applebee's new pasta and grill combos starting at $9.99. and get more bites for your buck with our late night half-priced apps. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

it's just the way things are. when you're under pressure to get the job done, it seems you have to accept the fact that some equipment will sit idle, or underutilized. but it doesn't have to be that way. that's why united rentals is combining equipment, data, safety and expertise to help your worksite perform better. united rentals. a better worksite is here.

11 days after we first learned of the whistle-blower complaint. in that time, pompeo has been asked about the call multiple times. >> what do you know about those conversations? >> so, you just gave me a report about a whistle-blower complaint, none of which i've seen. >> he somehow neglected to mention he listened in. as andrea mitchell reminded us earlier, he's a harvard lawyer, he's a very smart guy and he has political ambitions that could include the white house. what he says has to be believable. what he says has to be credible. and if it's the nation's top diplomat, there are times he can't tell us everything he knows, he's perfectly within his right not to answer. but how can we believe him going forward? how can we believe what the trump administration tells us?

which brings us to the advice pompeo recently gave journalists covering the houthis, iran's allies who are -- >> so, whenever you report about them, you say the houthis said, you should say, the well-known frequently lying houthis have said the following. this is important, because you ought not report them as if these are truth tellers. >> you ought not report them as if these are truth tellers. and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-seven vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding?

memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. you may have gingivitis. when you brush, and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly... tooth loss. help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. leave bleeding gums behind. parodontax. if ylittle thingsate tcan be a big deal., that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.

otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.

president trump and his republican allies are working overtime to defend the president against allegations regarding the impeachment inquiry, whether it's been rationalizing, deflecting or dismissing. many conservative tv and radio personalities are attempting to discredit the whistle-blower and dismissing the allegations as simp simp simp simply hersay. >> if you're going to prove the president is using leverage to get a ukrainian leader to do

what he wants to do to help himself politically, why would it go so far down in the conversation before he brought up the name biden? >> this impeachment coup is going to unify trump voters like nothing before. and in 2020, trump supporters will turn out at the polls in numbers you won't believe. >> everything that this whistle-blower said was going to be in that report was already out in the press or has been disproven. >> well, joining me now, somebody who was a talk radio guy himself for awhile, charlie sikes. do you view that as a positive, a negative, talk radio guy? what do you make of it these days? >> at this point, i prefer former talk radio guy. >> former talk radio guy. what's interesting here is watching sort of absurd ideas,

something that does not meet the smell test, get said as if it's so logical. the first one was, why would he wait so long if he brought up biden? actually, that's called, any time you're trying to ask a favor that you know is kind of difficult, you don't lead with it. you sugar coat it for awhile and then you get -- it's amazing to me, that's just one example here. something that actually is the opposite of common sense. anyway. wrp are where are we headed? >> well, we're headed for a lot more of all of this. i mean, we've seen the creation of these alternative reality silos in the last several years and now they are really fully operational. so, you're seeing this weaponized bs in a world where it doesn't really matter if something is true or not. all that matters is that it adds to the narrative, that it's plausible enough that somebody in the base can grab onto it, to, you know, to reinforce --

reinforce their support for donald trump. you know, this is -- this is what the former russian chess champion described also the annihilation of truth. the point isn't really to convince you that one thing is true or false, it's to make you doubt your critical sensibilities what do you believe? what is true? and that's why this fog machine is often so effective. the question is whether or not it's -- it reaches a big enough base to actually save donald trump. >> and here's where i think some of us struggle to understand the lack of logic that dictates the talking points in the echo chamber, and that is this. so, for instance, the behavior of mr. barr, basically deciding to, it looks like, be the president's personal attorney at times, which is exactly what the right believed eric holder was doing for barack obama without

evidence, but now it's almost as if there's a rationalization, well, obama did it, or, at least, we thought obama and holder did it, so, it's okay if our guy does it, right? is that what's happening? >> that is exactly right. and this is something that you see from trump all the time, which is projection. this -- the, you know, when you start from the premise that the other side is capable of doing anything, they lied, they cheated, therefore, why shouldn't we play by the same rules? now, the other part of this, and i was thinking about this as i was coming down here today, donald trump's super power is his complete shamelessness, and what you're seeing among the people surrounding him is that it's become -- it's leeching out to them, the sense that they are not embarrassed to be peddling lines that are debunked over the next couple of days. and that's really what's been happening. what you've seen is that a lot of trump defense lines fell apart very, very quickly but

that doesn't seem to cause anyone to take any pause, to say, maybe we shouldn't be doing all of this or maybe we ought to -- >> no, charlie, it seems to -- >> this is all incredibly tribal. >> not only that, it seems to -- look, i've noticed in the conversation i had with a few republican, you know, they said, whoa, whoa, whoa, i'm not here to defend rudy giuliani. then they go on and they're not defending the president's behavior. they said, well, what about adam schiff, what about the democrats -- this shouldn't be throwing him out of office material, whatever it is. how long can that deflection go on? >> it will go on as long as it's necessary to go on. i mean, the power of what aboutism has become, i think, pretty obvious. and so, this is, of course, the go-to, is that if trump does something that is absolutely indefensible, you don't defend it. you find something else. you find something that adam schiff said, you find something that maxine waters said, and this is why democrats need to be

so disciplined, because all it takes is just a couple of data points. people who go too far, say something extreme and that becomes the youtube moment, that becomes the soundbyte, and this feats into this -- and it's beyond an echo chamber at this point. it really is an alternative reality silo where over the next several months it will be a completely different story, the characters will be different, and this is the reality that we live in, and no matter what comes out about donald trump, there will be people who will believe that narrative. >> what i'm trying to figure out is who feeds who here? like, donald trump and this bizarre ukrainian crowdstrike server conspiracy that is -- it's so wild, it's been debunked, but it's debunked because there's nothing to debunk it's so bizarre, is, he just -- is he consuming this or does he have people feeding it to people so he can consume it? >> well, it's -- it is a bizarre feedback loop at this point,

where you have these conspiracy theories that, at one time, were in the corner of the fever swamp. i mean, might have been on some websites, but i think most -- even most talk show hosts probably would have dealt with them with a lot of caution. but now you have the president, who is feeding directly and he puts that into the bloodstream and once he says something, then you have the obligation of the rest of the conservative media to say, well, maybe there's something to it or go back to the what aboutism, or the ant anti-ant anti-anti-trumpism, which is also a powerful weapon. you don't defend trump, you just attack anyone who attacks trump. >> and seb gorka being brought along as a member of the press somehow on mike pompeo's trip there, i just -- look. anybody can call themselves a member of the press. i get that. but that in itself seems like you're bringing a conspiracy theorist onboard a plane with you. >> well, it is bringing a

conspiracy theorist onboard the plane with you. and this is, you know, leaving aside the more serious allegations against the president, you know, his misuses, abuse of power, shaking down a foreign country, the fact that in the president's mind, these conspiracy theories have taken root, that he -- that this is a man whose judgment is, you know, has tremendous influence on all of our future, and yet he doesn't have the judgment to recognize how crazy some of these theories are, how baseless they are and he won't listen to people who tell him that. and that in itself is scary. >> right. folks need to realize the same person that believes these conspiracy theories has to make the decision whether to trust kim jong-un. charlie sykes, thank you very much. a quick reminder, tickets are onsale now for the third annual "meet the press" film festival. screenings will be throughout washington this weekend.

you may just see a film that ends up winning on oscar night. we had three nominees a couple years ago. this has become the place, if you want to get, start the award season for documentary shorts in washington. you don't want to miss this, go to nbcnews.com/mtpfilm for tickets. nbcnews.com/mtpfilm for tickets. as a cio, you want to move your business forward. but when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls... you can never seem to get anywhere. that's why dell technologies created unified workspace,

powered by vmware. ♪ a revolutionary solution that lets you deploy, manage, support and secure all your devices from the cloud. so you can stop going in circles, and start moving forward. hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i felt i couldn't be at my best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret,

i was cured. even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all common types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant, other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions, and all medicines you take including herbal supplements. don't take mavyret with atazanavir or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. common side effects include headache and tiredness. with hep c behind me, i feel free... ...fearless... ...and there's no looking back, because i am cured. talk to your doctor about mavyret. sstop struggling to clean tough messes with sprays. try clean freak! it has three times the cleaning power of the leading spray to dissolve kitchen grease on contact. and it's great for bathrooms!

just keep pumping the power nozzle to release a continuous burst of mist and make quick work of big jobs. it even works on stainless steel. it cuts through 100% of dirt, grease and grime. available with easy-to-swap refills. to get three times the cleaning power, try clean freak from mr. clean. it's just the way things are. when you're under pressure to get the job done, it seems you have to accept the fact that some equipment will sit idle, or underutilized. but it doesn't have to be that way. that's why united rentals is combining equipment, data, safety and expertise to help your worksite perform better. united rentals. a better worksite is here. tonight in 2020 vision, yes, there is a presidential race. money matters for a campaign and tonight, we're getting the new numbers from some campaign cash

hauls for the third quarter. the first numbers we get are the ones that the campaigns are proud of. bernie sanders raised a whopping $25.3 million in the third quarter. significant increase from the $18 million he raised $25.3 million in the third quarter. significant increase that sanders keeps it coming. he outraised pete buttigieg, whose impressive $24.9 million dropped a bit. but diagno$19.1 million is impr. kamala harris raised $11.6 million, nearly identical to the total she raised last quarter. cory booker came in at just under $6 million. we're still waiting on the field's front-runners, joe biden and elizabeth warren, to share. i'm guessing that warren number is going to be of interest to a lot of people. as for the president's campaign, his campaign director said today that combined with the rnc, this quarter trump and the party have

raised a whopping $125 million. we'll be right back. 'll be righ. dramaticstra) ♪ performance comes in lots of flavors. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ where people go to learn about their medicare options before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here's why...medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. this part is up to you. a medicare supplement plan helps pay for some of what medicare doesn't.

call unitedhealthcare insurance company today to request this free decision guide. and learn about the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. this type of plan lets you say "yes" to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. do you accept medicare patients? i sure do! so call unitedhealthcare today and ask for your free decision guide. oh, and happy birthday... or retirement... in advance.

to the wait did frowe just win-ners. prouders everyone uses their phone differently. that's why xfinity mobile let's you design your own data. now you can share it between lines. mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. it's a different kind of wireless network designed to save you money. save up to $400 a year on your wireless bill. plus get $250 back when you buy an eligible phone.

call, click, or visit a store today. - when you're volunteering, "it's not my job."r that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. welcome back. more on what you might call all the president's men. it's a cliche that every cable chiron writer has used today. is former campaign chief corey lewandowski is suggesting he will not run for the new hampshire senate telling a local radio station as much as i think i would be a great fighter for the people of new hampshire and

one u.s. senator can make a difference, it is my priority to make sure the president of the united states is re-elected. let's bring back our panel, carol, michael and adrian. carol, this is basically the part of the conversation we didn't get to about pompeo and barr. who may be in more of a need of a personal lawyer today, pompeo or barr? >> i think it looks like right now mike pompeo is potentially in more -- not just in terms of what he -- any legal jeopardy, i don't know about that. but politically, and he has political ambitions, barr has never shown any desire. he's quieter. >> doesn't care. >> he's going about his job and doing -- and running an investigation that a lot of people disagree with, including the ways he's doing it, but it's not clear that he's done anything improper. pompeo, he clearly knew a lot more, now we know, than he would say. he lied by omission. and his stage apartment is far

more tied up in what rudy giuliani was up to. if you look at his language, he said to my knowledge i think everyone acted appropriately and that's a qualifier. so i think for the first time since he's really tethered himself to president trump, he's in some political jeopardy and he may wind up really being -- the heat is going to be on him far more than barr. >> michael, i think carol makes a compelling case, since pompeo has political ambition and barr isn't, pompeo probably has more to lose today. that exit ramp for kansas senate, is there a detour now? is that not as easy to get? is he way too far in one lane, he's got to somehow -- >> exactly. as he was taking off, make sure it's done by the time i get back. no, i think carol is right. he is on the stick a little bit here. he has been thrown under the bus by some key players in the administration who are the closest to the president, starting with rudy giuliani.

i think a lot of people didn't see that one coming the way it came out. certainly mike didn't. and right now from what i hear from some back conversation, he's not a happy camper because he recognizes, wait a minute, how come the exit moved from here to here so he's got to deal with that. he does have political ambitions. he's sort of methodically plodded his way along. i remember sitting on the bus talking with him in 2010 as we were working on his first campaign about his future, so i know where this guy would like to go. this now presents a big bump in that road. >> how -- look, there are ways that pompeo and barr have to testify before congress. >> right. >> for appropriations reasons and things like that. they can't totally duck this forever. >> exactly, exactly. >> but there is a point where if democrats are too focused on them, they're taking their eye off the ball. what do you see as the focus of this impeachment inquiry when it comes to pompeo --

>> speaker pelosi's office is very adamant and very clear that they are solely focused on trump. sure, pompeo, a.g. barr may get caught up in this, but their number one priority is dealing with trump when it comes to impeachment. everything else, sure, you'll have to have other people testify, but everything else is secondary compared to actually dealing with president trump. >> mr. volker, kurt volker, carol lee, this is the special envoy, he was unpaid, head of the mccain institute. a lot of people are making some assumptions about who is volker. which side of the republican political -- is he a mccain guy? and the fact that he wants to keep his deposition for when it was scheduled and he's going to be the first person that talks. he seems to be quite an important figure here. >> when you talk to people who know him well, he's described as somebody who has a lot of integrity, who kind of went into this and is a little short of shell-shocked by -- >> he was in the private sector and asked to come back, right? >> yes.

you have him with rudy giuliani. it's just not -- they're very different people. i think now he feels in some ways that his name has been a little tarnished or there's something that he wants to clear. people who know him well say he's a very above board, kind of by the book sort of person. so it makes sense. he's also not formally in the trump administration in the way that some of the other players in this are, so it makes it easier for him. >> michael, i've said this before and we said it last week. it certainly feels like the republican party in washington hopes that giuliani is the scapegoat. it does seem like the whisperers. i can't tell you how many private emails i've got. this is all giuliani, i don't know what he's doing, this is ridiculous. can they pull that off? >> i don't think so. i think to your point the focus is going to be on the president. there are a lot of bit players and, you know, "b" actors who are going to be caught up in this, but i don't think the party can escape the fact that

the head of the party is now under investigation. >> i don't know about you guys, i'm tired of being divided here in washington. there's one thing all of washington unites around. >> there we go. >> we all are wearing red tonight. let's stay in the fight. go, nats. carol, mike and adrienne, thank you. sorry brew crew. that's all we have tonight. more "meet the press" tomorrow hopefully with the nats still in the playoffs. >> any predictions on the spread? >> dude, i just don't want to see wanderswearo pitching. >> good luck to you and the whole town to be unified for a whole evening. we wish you well. good evening to everyone joining us at home. we are tracking several developing stories in the other big story in this town other than baseball, that is of course the united states congress making real moves towards impeaching donald trump.