that does it for this hour of "msnbc live." i'm chris jansing. andrea mitchell is in the house. >> great to see you, thanks very much, chris jansing. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," the heat is on as new reports say that vice president pence was also brought into the president's pressure on ukraine. the president today answering the question he's been dodging, what did he want ukraine's president to do for him? >> if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer. uh, they should investigate the bidens. and the president now says china should investigate the

bidens. joe biden hitting back hard last night for the first time. >> i put my integrity, my whole career of public service to this nation, up against his long record of lying, cheating, and stealing any day of the week. point break. more democrats from swing districts come out in favor of an impeachment inquiry. how it's playing to the voters back home. >> i will not shirk my duty and i will not violate my oath. i will support and i will defend the united states constitution. >> congressman max rhodes of staten island, new york, joining us ahead. and "blowout." rachel maddow with her big new book, the incredible story of how corruption in the oil and gas industry helped vladimir putin expand his global influence as she explained on the "today" show with savannah guthrie. >> there is this paradox where you have all this oil revenue

but it ends up giving you a bad country and weak economy. in russia, they used oil and gas as a weapon. >> on our show today rachel will be here to talk about how oil and gas play a central role in vladimir putin's efforts to control ukraine to hack our election and yes, also, the impeachment inquiry, all of that coming up next. and good day, everyone, i'm andrea mitchell in new york. president trump finally admitting today what he avoided answering yes, why he called ukraine's president in july, making it clear it was to ask for help investigating a political adversary, joe biden and biden's son. and he also wants china to start investigating hunter biden's business connections there answer throw there has been no evidence of wrongdoing by the bidens. >> i would think that if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer.

uh, they should investigate the bidens. likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens, because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with, uh, with ukraine. >> this as tensions at the white house are reaching a boiling point and more administration officials are becoming embroiled in the impeachment inquiry including now vice president mike pence's role. "the washington post" reporting trump instructed pence not to attend the inauguration of ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky in may. a month later the president used pence to tell zelensky that u.s. aid was still being withheld while demanding more aggressive action on corruption, officials said. and at this hour, former envoy to ukraine kurt volker is testifying behind closed doors on capitol hill before three congressional committees, staff members, and some members. volker quit the state department

friday night apparently to avoid being ordered not to appear on capitol hill after instructions came down from moike pompeo. joining us now, kristen welker, geoff bennett, michael crowley, former republican congressman david jolly, now an msnbc contributor, and mara gay, member of "the new york times"' editorial board. the president is sort of upping the ante, for the first time saying yes, he did want sfwlelens cansfwlel e zelensky of ukraine to investigate the bidens and now is saying president xi of china should do so as well. where are we? >> it was a remarkable moment, andrea, the president deposit n essentially doubling down on

that phone call with the president of ukraine and then expanding it, saying china should be investigating as well. he raised china, by the way, andrea, that was unprompted. that's one of the things that makes this such an extraordinary moment and undoubtedly it's going to fuel the scrutiny that the president is facing right now on capitol hill. house democrats are going to have a range of questions now not only about ukraine but about china as well. the biden campaign already firing back, saying that this is akin to the president's moment during the 2016 campaign when he called on russia, "russia, if you're listening, please hack hillary clinton's emails." he said last night the defining characteristic of the donald trump presidency is ongoing use of power. so defiance from joe biden. but andrea, we want to put this into a broader context. the president's comments coming as he is negotiating or at least trying to negotiate a trade deal with china, one that has had an impact on the u.s. economy, on

the global economy. and so the fact that president trump would say china should investigate against that backdrop is certainly significant and you would anticipate it is going to get the attention of lawmakers on capitol hill, andrea. >> michael crowley, let's drill down a little bit on this new reporting about the vice president's role. some of us have been pointing out that this could bring him into the mix because of the whistle-blower's complaint. there is also reference to the fact that there has been a lot of pressure, the vice president did not go to the inaugural as planned, it was rick perry, the energy secretary, so that was a clear snub to zelensky when he was being pressured to cooperate. now we've got marc short from the vice president's office, his chief of staff, saying that the fact that "the washington post" reported today that the president and vice president were speaking in code about corruption in ukraine is, quote, a load of crap, short also saying that pence didn't attend the inaugural because of a

scheduling conflict. the associated press has reported he was told by the president not to go. whether or not he understood the reasons and the full ramifications of that and whether it's part of what is alleged to be a conspiracy remains to be seen. what is your reporting telling you, mike? >> well, look, i think that once again, we're seeing that pence's, you know, camp is trying to make it appear as though he was basically out of the loop and didn't really know what the president was up to. this is an echo of the mueller investigation where pence's -- peps a pence and his people were trying to stay as far from it as possible. we don't know anything, we don't have anything to do with this. that is perhaps somewhat more plausible as it related to the 2016 campaign, although that's a separate argument. the issue here is that, number

one, you know, pence has played a relatively active role in foreign policy, has done a lot of international travel. his office has sold him as being, you know, an authority on foreign policy and an important emissary for the president. so this would be a pretty significant blind spot if he really didn't know this was going on as far as his participation in internal conversations. but beyond that, andrea, you know, anyone who follows american politics knows that for the last, you know, year or more, rudy giuliani has been all over the place, talking and tweeting nonstop about ukraine, and his desire to have the ukrainian government investigate the bidens and the circumstances around the 2016 election and the release of, you know, paul manafort's financial information. you kind of have to have been living under a rock not to be aware of that and to not connect

dots, to not be curious, if you are a foreign policy decisionmaker in this white house, not to be curious about whether that is interfacing with policy decisions. i think, you know, it begs a lot of questions they're facing right now in pence's orbit. >> and at the same time there's also reporting in "the washington post" that his national security adviser, pence's, was on that call, as was, we now know, pompeo. so clearly he would have been briefed, it would have been in the presidential daily brief the next day, there would have been a lot of readouts he would have gotten. their defense is he didn't know what was going on or didn't read his briefing materials as he was going to a meeting with zelensky in warsaw. kurt volker, envoy to ukraine, the first key witness, he resigned from the state department on friday nate, he's on the hill now apparently testifying. geoff bennett, what do we know about this, when did he go in

and when do we expect him to come out? >> andrea, this deposition is entering its third hour. staffers are the ones deposing the ambassador. members of congress of the respective committees have been going into the room. a couple of them left and wouldn't provide comment. mike turner from ohio put out a statement, he said he was there for the first part of the deposition and he believes ambassador volker is a straightforward, straight shooter, and that he would not have permitted nor would have participated in anything improper. that actually tracks with our own reporting, people who know the ambassador, who know his thinking, who know the role that he had when he was the ambassador, he was tapped by rex tillerson in 2017, he held that role, special envoy to the ukraine, until last friday when he resigned in part, we're told, because he wanted to be more free in what he told congress. even as rudy giuliani has said time and time again that he was working under the auspices of the state department, under the direction of kurt volker, i'm

told what volker has told staffers of this committee is that that's not entirely the case, that if routineudy giulia thought he was getting direction from volker it's because volker was trying to table him as quickly as he could because giuliani wasn't working in the national interest. i'm told he was explicit with ukrainian leaders not to involve themselves in the 2020 u.s. election. the reason why that matters is because the whistle-blower complaint makes clear or it alleges that volker did have communications with the ukrainian leaders about president trump's desires to get the ukrainian president to dig up discredited dirt by rudy giuliani. the other point is when he did have that position at special envoy, it was a part-time, voluntary role. his full-time job is executive director of the mccain institute, he's described as a

former ally of senator john mccain. >> and of course mike pompeo also is being swept up in this because he was involved in at least -- he was not comfortable about the giuliani role but went along with it to a great extent. david jolly, i want to play a remarkable exchange from the news conference yesterday between the president and jeff mason of reuters. >> reporter: the question, sir, is what did you want president zelensky to do about vice president biden and his son hunter. >> are you talking to me? >> reporter: yes, it was a followup of what ima just asked you. >> do you have a question for the president of finland? ask him a question. i've given you a long answer. ask this gentleman a question. don't be rude. >> reporter: no, sir, i don't want to be rude, i just wanted you to have a chance to answer

the question i've asked you. >> i've answered everything. it's a whole hoax. and you know who's playing into the hoax? people like you and the fake news media. >> jeff mason of reuters with remarkable composure. the president then asked him to ask a question of the president of finland. david jolly, what are we seeing here with the president and his behavior yesterday? >> i think we're seeing a president who knows he's going to be impeached by the house of representatives. he knows his poll numbers are at a historical low for any president in their first term. he knows the likelihood of his reelection is dimming. so he's lashing out both in anger in those moments but also is reaching out to other nations to ask them to interfere in our elections to help him prospects personally and politically. the problem for the president is that it is fundamentally impeachable behavior. he didn't answer jeff's question yesterday but he answered it on the south lawn today, andrea. what it brought back to me is

that nixonian moment when richard nixon said in the interview, "what i'm saying, if the president does it, it is not illegal." what president trump is trial ballooning in his comments today is that he is going to try to convince republicans that yes, of course he's asking nations like china and ukraine to investigate joe biden but there's nothing wrong with it because he's able to do that using the executive office of the president. the founders disagreed with that and i think house democrats will see it differently as well. >> mara, he's striking out against the press, the bidens, adam schiff. he seems volatile, doesn't seem to be able to focus on one thing at a particular time. >> that's right. i think as the president becomes more and more desperate, he's going to do what he knows how to do, which is try and control the narrative and district. it's really important, it was a great moment for democracy yesterday, actually, you had a journalist demand, repeat the question again and again and demand an answer from the president.

and i think that, you know, trump is going to have a hard time with reality. i think barack obama, actually, before he left office, said something to the effect of, reality he's a was a way of catp to you. i think that's what we're seeing with donald trump right now. as his behavior becomes more volatile, it will be very important that members of the press and members of congress and others really come together to stay focused. i think the effort to distract, to distract congress and the american voters with this biden investigation that has absolutely no basis in fact, is going to ramp up. i think we should not play into that. >> mara gay, kristen welker, geoff bennett, michael crowley, david jolly, thanks to all. coming up, all in. one of the last democratic holdouts on impeachment throws his support behind the inquiry. new york congressman max rose

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i intend to fully support this impeachment inquiry and follow the facts. we have got to follow these facts where they lead us and where we find ourselves today, the president has no one to blame but himself. >> freshman congressman max rose, democrat of new york, backing an impeachment inquiry

at his town hall in staten island last night. the former military veteran changing his position as a new poll shows support for impeaching president trump is at an all-time high. 45% backing an impeachment vote in the latest "usa today"/ipsos poll. congressman rose joining us. congressman, a lot has changed. had a changed your mind? >> when this first came out, and it was not too long ago, we immediately acknowledged it as a grave national security issue that was startling on its face and certainly credible in nature. what's critical here, and what we've said from the beginning, we have to get to the facts and earn the trust of the american people in the process. what we believed was best was to initially have some faith that this administration could partner going forward. that was quickly and obviously dispelled over the previous few days as the secretary of state has said that he will not allow

people to go forward from the state department. the white house has said that they will not divulge information. and rudy giuliani, the president's private lawyer, has said that he is ready to sue congress. so at this point i fully believe we have to escalate that to an impeachment inquiry so we can get to the facts without coming to conclusions. >> i know you were reluctant. seven of your colleagues wrote an op-ed, all of them with military backgrounds, from different districts. they came out seven days ago. what's happened over the last few days, the obstruction, or opposition, shall we say, from the white house and the state department, that's what persuaded you? >> absolutely, that pushed me to this point. but here is a critical point i really want to acknowledge, not just for districts like mine but throughout the country, where people are focusing on their daily lives. they're not tuning into this.

they want to know that this is a fair process, not a hyperpartisan policy. it is our responsibility each step of the way to show that to the american people. we're not just trying to get the facts. we're trying to earn their trust. the person who pushed us to this point is not partisanship, it's the president of the united states. he has no one else to blame but himself. >> but how do you keep it, you know, clean and nonpartisan when the president of the united states is calling the chairman of house intel a lowlife who should be gone after for treason? >> nonpartisan doesn't necessarily mean that the republicans come on board, although i would say that there are 19 republicans right now that are sitting in districts that trump won by less than what he won my district, so they certainly should be showing more integrity and more political courage. but what it does mean is that first of all, we should not be luxuriating in where we are right now. this is a national tragedy. no one should have gone to

washington, d.c. hoping and praying that they would get the chance to impeach the president of the united states. we should not be luxuriating in this nor should we be immediately be saying that the investigation is just a formality and the case is already shut and closed. we are trying to get to the facts right now, plain and simple. on a daily basis we'll be looking to our republican colleagues to join us in this effort. this is, when it comes down to it, not just a national security issue but this is a case in point of whether the president of the united states used the office to advance his or her own self-interest. we've got to find out if that happened or not. >> some of your colleagues believe he actually made that case himself, in that conversation which the white house put out, it's very clear he's pressuring the president of ukraine. >> there is no doubt that that transcript combined with the whistle-blower report makes this allegation incredibly credible

and worthy of an investigation and even an impeachment inquiry. but as i said, we have to show the american people how serious this actually is, and that does take time, and that, i do believe, should take resources and an extensive trust building process throughout the country. when you talk to average americans, all too often they say, you know what, maybe the president did something wrong but on the same hand, everybody does it. this is an incredible or potentially incredible abuse of power. but we also have to remain our north star that anticorruption needs to be the tip of our spear in terms of our agenda in congress. that's democrats and republicans. and i look forward to us focusing on that as well. >> and of course the president again just came out on the south lawn today and said yes, he asked zelensky to investigate the bidens and yes, now he

thinks china should as well. >> he's a classic case in point, when it comes to what the president said on china, he's patrolling. we cannot take the bait. we have to focus on the actually investigation on ukraine and make the case to the american people. >> max rose, congressman, thank you very much, good to see you again. senator bernie sanders continues to recover off the campaign trail this afternoon. the 78-year-old vermont senator underwent a medical procedure wednesday to treat a blockage in one of his arteries. all of sanders' campaign events have been canceled, they say until further notice. today they would not reply to questions on how he's doing. watch. >> well, ari, can you do me a favor, get me a chair for a moment. it's been a long day. that chair works.

>> clearly he was uncharacteristically not in his usual form. joining me now is mike memoli. what is the impact, he's the oldest candidate in the race at 78, joe biden is 76, elizabeth warren is 70. >> andrea, i'm drawn to a baseball analogy. what we know about the type of procedure that senator sanders underwent, it's less season-ending injury and more a ten-day trip to the injury list. i heard from a sanders adviser he will in fact be at the next debate in ohio in two weeks. i want to read a note from two reporters, we do not know where

bernie sanders is, we do not know if he is in the hospital or not. those are questions that the public is interested in, especially given the age factor in this race. we have multiple candidates in their 70s, in a race in which there is such a hyperpremium on the electability of these candidates, the ability to go toe-to-toe with donald trump. any potential liability for a candidate like this takes on greater resonance and importance in this race. >> in fact bernie sanders had told nbc just a week or so ago that he is going to put out his medical records before the primaries. joe biden has said the same. how do you think this plays with the obvious concern about senator sanders' health and his age, perhaps? does this hurt joe biden potentially, who has also raised questions in some people's minds about his age and whether he's up to the task? >> yeah, i mean, you could certainly make the point that any time, for any of these candidates, the issue of health and age comes up, it's going to be applied to all of the

candidates as well. and as you mentioned, joe biden told us a few weeks ago that he would in fact release all his medical records prior to the voting day but that's still four months away, there's a lot of time for his health to be an issue. >> mike memoli, thank you very much. coming up, friends in low places. why rudy giuliani was trying to go to paul manafort's help from behind bars. hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams.

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better. don't wait. get your info kit now! according to new reporting from "the washington post" today, president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani consulted with former trump campaign chairman paul manafort while he was in prison, through manafort's lawyer, as part of giuliani's effort to approve that ukraine, not russia, attacked the u.s. campaign, a completely debunked theory, we must add. rudy giuliani acknowledged it was he who turned over a handwritten ledger to the state department that the inspector general brought yesterday. those documents included a series of false charges against the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, effectively getting her

recalled. all of this is now part of the investigation into the whistle-blower complaint that is central to the impeachment inquiry. joining me now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, there is a lot of discomfort about rudy giuliani's role with the state department, which ex-special-envoy kurt volker is talking to the committee about right now. these false claims had been debunked months and months ago. >> it's a very surprising development, to see all of this come together at once, andrea. and it's clear that the house was right to subpoena giuliani. he needs to be questioned under oath so that we can understand the origins of his involvement here, who was paying him for his time. because he's said all along that the president, that he was doing this voluntarily, that he was doing it for free, and yet we

now know this involved extensive foreign travel. there are a lot of unanswered questions. >> as a good lawyer or prosecutor, you know the dangers of putting somebody on a witness stand when you don't know the answers. what if he demands a public session and it becomes another lewandowski gong show? >> lewandowski was able to create the situation he created because of his commitment to obstructing, to not answering the questions. it's entirely possible giuliani will do that as well. the reality here is any claim of attorney/client privilege to the extent there was an attorney/client relationship here has long been debunked. giuliani himself told "the atlantic" that he wasn't acting is the president's lawyer. attorney/client privilege only extends to private conversations between the attorney and his client. so once he reach the point where you're displaying your tweets on national television, you've sort of lost any semblance of the privilege. so sure, giuliani could go in

and obstruct, but honestly, every time he opens his mouth we learn more about this situation, and i think congress should proceed. >> does he have a credible argument that as the president's personal attorney in the middle of the mueller probe, that he had the right, the obligation to go to ukraine, to go to foreign leaders and try to establish his argument that it was ukraine and the democrats, not russia and the republicans, potentially, certainly manafort, who were involved in interfering in the election? >> you know, i think there's almost an hour's worth of conversation contained in that question, because what giuliani and others are doing here is just so clearly wrong. and what this really is is an effort to back up to the very origins of the mueller report and to completely clear the president of wrongdoing by saying russia wasn't involved in hacking the 2016 election, it was ukraine all along. we know that's not true.

the 17 agencies that make up the u.s. intelligence community unanimously weighed in and said it was russia. we have indictments of actors connected to the russian government who were involved in hacking, who were involved in social media manipulation. but this president remains obsessed with somehow clearing his name or perhaps creating a new case he can take to voters. and the more he focuses on this, the more crimes he commits, the more dangerous it is to his presidency. >> joyce vance, as always, thank you. joyce is the featured guest this week on chuck rosenberg's podcast "the oath," available software you get your podcasts. coming up, do all roads lead to moscow? rachel maddow is here with her new book "blowout" which also he's a surprising connection to the impeachment inquiry now under way. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. you're watching msnbc. msnbc. >> there is stuff to explain, like why did this happen in ukraine and why did he think he could get that and what's going

to happen to ukraine. but in terms of who done it, he admits it, and now he's going to be impeached for it. [ cheers and applause ] d then t. we like cage free, and which ones just taste fresher and more flavorful? only eggland's best. we prefer organic, and which ones have 6 times more vitamin d and 25% less saturated fat? only eggland's best. my family deserves the best, and which egg is the best in so many ways? only eggland's best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs.

let me just ask you again, though, the second part of that question. is russia, as robert mueller alleged, attempting to influence

the 2020 lelections in the u.s.? >> translator: i'll tell you a secret, we will definitely intervene, it's a secret, everybody will laugh, so we'll go big, but don't tell anyone, please. >> vladimir putin mocking the u.s., clearly enjoying the damage he caused in the 2016 campaign. president trump absolves russia of blame against all advice and undermines the ukraine president's ability to push back against russian influence. in her extraordinary new book, "blowout," rachel maddow unraffles the web of the oil and gas industry's influence from its origins in the 19th century to the fracking revolution in oklahoma and other states. the bp blowout of the book's title. and putin's expanding global influence despite his weakening domestic economy. now with the witting or

unwitting help of an american president. an extraordinary tale, incredible told. >> thank you so much, my friend, it's so nice of you to say that. i've been desperate to know what you think of this and if you feel like i'm wide of the mark. >> not that it's about me, but my first job at nbc was as energy correspondent in the '70s. >> i didn't know that. >> when a lot of this was happening, but not in the full web of intrigue and corruption that is exposed here. and the way you bring it all together, the characters, many of these characters. but let's start with vladimir putin. >> yes. >> because russia is so central to all of this. >> mm-hmm. >> and the russian influence that he exerts, punching way above his economic weight. >> yes. >> the insidious nature of a single commodity economy, how does that affect the way he deals with other leaders, the

way he grabs land in ukraine and now continues to use his muscle against ukraine? >> that idea about putin punching above his weight or at least being willing to throw very wild, very risky punches, is the reason i wrote the book, because i'm obviously super interested in what russia did with our election in 2016. and i found myself stuck in terms of trying to think about it from putin's perspective, from russia's perspective. what is it about russia that makes the risk and reward here seem worth it to them in terms of taking these kind of really wild swings around the world? no other country on the border of europe is using their military to take pieces of other countries. nobody has been trying to mess with a u.s. presidential election that they were almost willing to get caught for, what makes it make sense? i do think they're one-product ,

they're stagnating. that explains part of why they have to be kind of nutty in terms of the way they try to exert their influence around the world. they're resorting to some tack tux that you would associate with much smaller and more desperate states. >> when i saw the former germany foreign minister become the head of gazprom years ago. >> schroeder, yes. >> that was suspicious but i didn't fully understand the oligarchy and how it all works together. and everything that you've tracked in this book so brilliantly. and now for us to be doing an impeachment inquiry on the hill, tracking this minute by minute, based on a new ukrainian leader trying to push back, trying to stand up and completely undermine by an american president, withholding weapons he desperately needed.

he was elected on two promises, to push back on vladimir putin. now with him withholding the weapons with engagement from the state department and now the vice president, putin has new leverage. >> putin comes out of this very well. whatever happens with trump in this impeachment inquiry, putin is coming out great in part because trump cut the legs out from this new ukrainian president. russia did invade ukraine, they took crimea for themselves, they're opening the eastern part of the country. it's amazing it hasn't been front page news in this country, but it is absolutely an effort to resolve the russian invasion of ukraine on putin's terms. the only reason ukraine is in a position to have to do that is because trump has cut this guy's legs out from under him. we're focused on the call because that's what trump is going to be impeached for, him admitting on the south lawn today, yes, i asked them to go

after biden for me. but the thing that trump did out in the open with reporters after that call is he said, yeah, i think zelensky is going to do a deal with putin, then he can come here to the white house. he's making ukraine capitulate to russia. russia with ukraine, you're getting back to the soviet union. >> we have a lot more to talk about. rachel, stay with me. we'll also talk about the president's comments rachel just alluded to on the south lawn this morning. you're watching andrea mitchell with rachel maddow, only on msnbc. l maddow, only on msnbc.

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nixon white house and administration concluded was the right thing to do was tell the truth. tell the truth. and that would be advice that should be given to anybody caught up in this because it is clear that the president has made a series of decisions to

benefit himself and his political fortune at the expense of other matters in our government. >> hillary clinton with rachel maddow last night. and hillary clinton of course has the unique perspective of having been a lawyer on the nixon impeachment when she got out of yale law school. >> that's right. yeah. >> i love that picture. and she knows how that process went. and there were a lot of heros there, a lot of republican heros. you're not seeing that yet. >> a i thought it was interesting her saying listen, if there are cabinet officials or other government officials who are caught up in this, having to make a decision about what to do, whether or not to answer questions about what they did and saw and what they know, her answer was just be honest. i think not only because it will be the best thing for you legally, but also it is what your country needs right now. a very somber take on it from her.

seeing her last night, i was very happy to have that long interview with her. her serious and the acute angle at which they looks at this, it is a very sobering discussion. >> and the state department that she led is front and center now with mike pompeo being caught up in this. not volunteering the trooult which is that he had been on the call. >> and even beyond that you saying that he had no way of knowing whether or not these reports about the call were accurate. but you were on the call. you have every way of knowing whether the reports were accurate. he dodged questions, but i think he also lied about his involvement in this. the idea that he is then making sure or trying to block other state department officials from being witnesses in this inquiry in part to his own behavior, i mean history is -- i don't know how he will fair legally and through this impeachment process, but history will look

very harshly on what he is doing right now. >> and in fact one of the real victims here may well be, we know that rudy giuliani had brought this conspiracy theories and the president is now repeating them again against the former ambassador to ukraine whose career is basically ruined and she was a stellar ambassador and now apparently going to testify next week. rex tiller is a bson is a big character in your book. what did you find fascinating about his role in. >> when russia intervened to help install trump, the question because whether or not trump had anything to do with it, whether they had any american help. we know russia did that. what were they hoping for. just before the election the previous two years, russia had done a half trillion dollar oil deal with a company called exxon that would allow them basically to invest in their one industry

for generations to come. that was shut off by american foreign policy, by sanctions against russia for their bad behavior on the international stage. the idea that the presidential administration that russia helped install would then put the head of exxon in charge of u.s. foreign policy, to my it was just farcical. regardless of his qualities as a man. that choice especially because trump and tillerson had never met each other, they didn't seem to have any relationship, why did he get put in the state department after a lifetime of only ever having worked at exxon and having done this huge deal with putin, it was a remarkable decision that i still can't get over. but the book in part is about his tenure at exxon and why putin was able to do a deal with him when he's been unable to do deals with so many other western majors. >> and it is a fascinating and story and all of the characters, i frankly did not know of the nuclear explosions.

>> using nuclear bombs to get to drill, yeah. >> to drill in oklahoma. all of this is in the book. and expand on what happened on the south lawn. the president is now bringing china into it. >> yeah, and your previous guest congressman rose was talking about this. the republicans who are defending the president on this have spent the last couple days essentially trying to make us not believe the white house notes about the call between trump and zelensky, make us not believe that trump actually approached ukraine about giving him something on biden that he could use for his election. they have been denying that maybe the whistleblower got it right, denying that the call is accurately reflected and the way the house is pursuing impeachment on it. that is all out the window. the president walked out on the south lawn, was asked what did you want and he said they ought to investigate biden. so i think that his theory here is, you know, you get caught, you know, murdering somebody and your defense is, yeah, i killed the guy and he needed to be

killed so what. doing it in public makes it less of a scandal? i don't know. but they don't really need an inquiry anymore. if they are going to go after him and impeach him for asking ukraine to investigate biden, he just announced that that was what he did on the south lawn. >> well, we need reporters and question need jeff hey son. jeff mason is the pooler on air force one today after standing up to the president and taking all of that bullying in the east room. >> may god bless you and keep you. >> indeed. the book is extraordinary. i've learned so much from this. and it is written -- it is a thriller. it has the excitement and the great style that we have all come can to know and love. >> thank you. there are some crazy characters in this part of the world, so it made it easy to focus on that stuff. >> rachel maddow, good luck to you, my friend. good luck with the foot. and number one right now on

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coming up, the latest on the impeachment inquiry and an unexpected new twist. president trump is now calling on china to investigate the bidens. it is noteworthy since he suggested quhil speaking about his own trade war with china. a trade war that he still is negotiating and is hurting americans badly by the way. meanwhile the former u.s. envoy to ukraine kurt volker is testifying in the impeachment inquir