the show for my book tour, which has now started. the first night of the tour was last night. that's why i took yesterday's show off but i'm here tonight live. i will be here next week even as i'm doing the other events. thank you to nicole wallace for filling in. and the news gods have rewarded me for coming back by making today just as nuts as yesterday was and perhaps even beyond as nuts. in terms of what is going on with this impeachment inquiry. the former national security adviser susan rice is going to be here tonight. an excellent night to have her here. she was the u.n. ambassador for the obama first term, given the way the national security infrastructure of the united states is rattling right

now, there's almost no one i would rather talk to right now about what is going on than susan rice. she will be here live here in studio with me. you might remember recently we had former secretary of state hillary clinton here on the show. she reminded me about something she said here about six months ago which created a little consternation particularly among her critics on the right. hillary clinton in an interview with me said something, laid something out as like a hypothetical, she was laying out something so crazy and so insane that they criticized her for even raising it as a prospect. they were saying it was too much. but the same thing that she said on this show, which was right criticized her for being

outlandish. it turns out to be a prophecy. it turns out that what we're living through. >> imagine. rachel, that you had one of the democratic nominees for 2020 on your show. and that person said, you know, the only other adversary of ours as good as the russians is china, so why should russia have all of the fun? and since russia is clearly backing republicans, why don't we ask china to back us. >> i hereby tonight ask china to -- >> that's right, and not only that, china, if you're listening, why don't you get trump's tax returns. i'm sure our media would richly reward you. so after this candidate hypothetically says this, within hours the irs officers are bombarded with incredibly sophisticated cyber tools looking for trump's tax returns

and then extracts them and passes them to whatever the new wikileaks happens to be and they start being unraveled and disclosed, nothing wrong with that. if you're going to let russia get away with what they did, and are still doing according to christopher wray, the current fbi director who said that last week, they're in our election systems. we're worried about 2020, he said. so, hey, let's have a great power contest and let's get the chinese in on the side of somebody else. just saying that shows how absurd the situation we find ourselves in. >> hillary clinton on this show about six months ago, laying out that crazy hypothetical showing how absurd it is, denying what russia did in 2016, not punishing them for what they did, or not prosecuting anyone,

and who knew about it. saying look how absurd that is, imagine if it was china being asked to get involved in our next election. china being asked to help the democrats this time. to be clear when hillary clinton laid that out it was a hypothetical and no democratic candidate is trying to enlist china's assistance for the 2020 campaign. now, however, we know that president trump is. he apparently decided that absurd hypothetical is nowhere near too absurd for him so he proclaimed yesterday that he would like the chinese government to give him help in his re-election effort by taking unspecified action against joe biden. that was followed by cnn reporting that the president was not just idly wishing that out loud, but one of the

presidential call records that has been secreted away into the code word protected super high security standalone server in the white house, and the initial notes to the president's calls to the president of ukraine, and reportedly the calls from putin, and the call with saudi arabia, another call secreted away there is the record of president trump in fact calling the president of china and asking the chinese government to help him out versus joe biden and the democrats for 2020. explicitly asking for an investigation into biden, right? one that he could use in his re-election effort. now, to their credit, i guess, china today said no. out loud. in response to that question. we don't know how the chinese president responded to that call. the records from that call from been secreted away in a protected server, but at least

out loud the chinese foreign minister said publicly today that china will not interfere in the internal affairs. and we trust the american people will be able to sort out their own problems. oh, would that were so. we're having a little trouble sorting out our own problems. so president trump made hillary clinton's hyperbolic prediction/absurd story come true, he asked china. on top of that we know president trump asked a different foreign country, ukraine, for help in his re-election in 2020. even though china said no, ukraine today appears to have said yes.

the ukrainian government today announcing that under president zelensky they are about to launch a new audit of previous investigations including the one that the president insisted they look into. it's possible this is not as bad as it looks. it is not necessarily him delivering what they said, we should all be humble about how we interpret nuance and intention in figures in ukrainian politics and law enforcement. i mean, i think we should all be humble about that. it used to be we didn't need to be experts about that stuff. but the way this is going in terms of the president making these demands on ukraine and

ukraine appearing to accede to those demands, this story is not getting better, it is getting worse. what the government has ordered and its impact. and i say that not to bum you out, but because i know that the news is moving really fast right now. it has been ten straight days of almost insane news days, in terms of the magnitude and importance of these stories. at its heart this is still very simple. maybe that is why it is moving so fast. there is an unrebuttable central claim here, it remains very simply that the president asked a foreign country, and now it seems foreign countries, plural, for help. against the democrats. for his re-election. that's it. that is potentially a crime, no american can solicit something

of value for use in a federal election from a foreign source whether or not the president himself can or can't be prosecuted for such a crime. anyone else can absolutely be prosecuted for such a crime. ask michael cohen. but the president's involvement in this scheme, his direction of this scheme. that is what the house is going to impeach him for. there is no mystery there. it started with press reports about there being a whistle-blower claim, and then we got the claim, and then we got documents, and then the president's own admission, and then the president doing it again on camera in front of everybody. the factual basis for this accusation that he is asking foreign rivals to help him in his re-election effort, it is proven. it's not in dispute. the white house and the president himself admitted it, they have done it out loud. that is done.

that is the top line. that is impeachment. that is the most important thing to understand. but still there is so much movement and so many developing stories below that, right? one level below that top line is the tsunami of news. it has made the last ten days so packed and frenetic. let's talk a little bit now about what happened today with this news and where we're at. i think in the history books, if this all goes where it looks like it is going, today will go down in the history of the trump impeachment as the day that the core impeachment inquiry, the central issue of this inquiry and the proceedings shifted to include not just the president himself but also vice president pence. and i think we knew this was probably inevitable once "the washington post" reported a couple days ago that sources

close to the vice president conceded that vice president pence had been briefed on the fact that president trump was pressing ukraine to investigate his political rival joe biden. pence received those briefing materials before he, himself, went to meet with the president of ukraine whereupon vice president pence told the ukrainians their aid would be held up until that investigation happened. that is not good for the vice president, right? that is exactly what the president is being impeached for. it really looks like he did it too, and worse, if he was the one who made it explicit. no aid unless they did it. well the three chairs of the committees who are handling the bulk of the impeachment proceedings are confirming now that they are investigating pence in the core issue of the impeachment. approaching a foreign government for dirt on a political rival

for help on the next election in this country. and vice president pence appears to have been the one that made explicit the quid pro quo. so they announced they are investigating the president as part of the impeachment proceedings. they followed up with an extensive document request to the vice president's office. the office responded with a brave face, a snarky response. i'm sure that plays well in the white house, but vice president pence knows there is no reason to expect that he will have all of the same nooks and crannies in the law to hide in. vice presidents have a little bit of that immunity, but ask spiro agnew, it doesn't work the same way when they try to shield themselves with white house immunity. that is part of what is going on. the core impeachment proceedings

about the undisputed actions of the president have expanded to the vice president as well. the other thing that has exploded in the last 24 hours is the amount of evidence we have got about how this effort to enlist foreign countries against the president's political opponents, it wasn't just a whim of the president, not just a wish that he was stating out loud or something he was saying to be deliberately outrageous. not just another hare-brained scheme that he had rudy giuliani run for him, because michael cohen is unavailable now because he is still in prison for the last one. but we have also now got tons of evidence that this is not just something that the president tried to do on his own or just with a personal lawyer as an

unofficial emissary. the explosion of news is the fact that this is an order that the president gave out that was, in fact, carried out by multiple people inside the u.s. government including a number of people at very high levels of the u.s. government. so i know you have heard about these texts that were released late last night. i'm not going to go through them one by one because i don't think we need to. you can file it all under government personnel carrying out trump's orders to do the thing for which he will be impeached. and part of the reason i'm not super in the weeds with the text messages is because they made clear they have not released all of them. so there is no reason to focus on them as the universe of what we have so far, we're going to get more in the future. even so, let me pull out a couple of key things that i think explain why things are moving as fast as they are right now. for starters, there is the thing that will be very uncomfortable for republicans in congress and

for a bunch of the conservative media. there's this republican and conservative media and white house talking point that whatever the president did here, it might be unseemly or troubling. but it is definitely not that bad. it is definitely not impeachable or a crime because there was no quid pro quo, that's the talking point you heard all week. in the first instance that doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if there is a quid pro quo. if you ask for help from a foreign country, it doesn't matter if you are also asking for something in exchange. if you ask for help in your election that you could be impeached for, trading something doesn't matter, it's just you asking for it that matters, but if you're concerned about whether or not there was a quid pro quo, now we know from the text messages that there was a quid pro quo.

that phrase means, i'll give you something if you give me something, right? it's a trade. trump's offer to ukraine, in this case, is clear in these text messages. quote, "heard from white house. assuming president zelensky convinces trump he will investigate, we will nail down date for visit to washington." that's the definition of a quid pro quo. you could do this like a johnnie cochran courtroom sing-song, you don't get the date unless you agree you will investigate. then we can nail down the date. it's right there. and for bonus points, we have the ukrainian side confirming that yes, in fact, they understand that that is the trade, that is the quid pro quo being agreed to.

here's the ukrainian side. okay, once we have a date we will announce that we are investigating, including among other things, burisma. specifically the thing they're trying to slime joe biden with. so the quid pro quo thing is beside the point, but if that is going to be your sticking point, if that is the republican and conservative media talking point, we now do have the verbatim back and forth between the trump administration and ukraine agreeing explicitly between the two sides that this is a quid pro quo. yes, we understand it is a quid pro quo. it is also worth points out the text from the trump administration to the ukraine saying if you want a date, you have to investigate. the timestamp on text

immediately proceeded trump getting on the phone with the president of ukraine and making that same ask out of his own personal presidential mouth. when it comes to not just trading a meeting with the united states as part of this quid pro quo, when it comes to getting military assistance, that part of the trade, that part of the quid pro quo seems specifically tied to vice president mike pence. with his trip over to europe to meet with the president of ukraine. part of the reason he is now being investigated in these proceedings is because of this reporting he recently had. he went over there and he didn't just ask ukraine for help in these investigations that would benefit him and president trump in 2020, he threatened their military aid if they did not cough up those investigations. now we know that just after vice president pence had his meeting,

it was right after that, within hours, that bill taylor sent this text back home to washington. saying, are we now saying that security assistance and white house meetings are conditioned on investigations? the state department official responded by saying, "call me." in a week he was still pressing the point. they responded hours later with an officious, lawyerly statement about how president trump had been crystal clear. no quid pro quos of any kind. bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions. president trump himself today seized on that particular text message in his remarks to reporters when he was talking about his impeachment woes.

he says that text totally exonerated him. the president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quos. that shortly came to a crashing end soon thereafter when ron johnson went to "the wall street journal" with a story that he thought was helping. he said that same guy at the state department, gordon sonlan, told him he was a little worried because it seemed like there was a quid pro quo being demanded by president trump when it came to ukraine. gordon sondland described to him a quid pro quo. the release of the u.s. aid to ukraine was contingent on an investigation desired by president trump and his allies. he told "the washington journal" in detail, the conversation happened on the phone, on a

specific day he was willing to name. and it was specifically about only releasing military aid to ukraine if trump got the investigations that he wanted from the ukrainian government. i think that ron johnson johnson thinks this is helping. the guy he says told him explicitly about the quid pro quo is trump's best defense that there was no quid pro quo. johnson issued a statement disavowing everything he said to "the wall street journal" earlier today. i don't think you need to get too lost in the sauce here. the importance is that there were other people, a bunch of other people in the trump administration who were involved in carrying out this scheme to involve this other country. to help him against the democrats and joe biden. up to and including vice president mike pence. also including energy secretary rick perry, who is apparently now resigning his post as a trump cabinet official.

i will mention that in the document request sent tonight, one of the things they're demanding records about are two meetings at the white house, one in may, one in july, that both involved energy secretary rick perry. one was on may 23rd that included kurt volker, who testified yesterday to the impeachment committees, also gordon sondland. who is testifying on tuesday. the only other two people in the meeting were president trump and rick perry. then in july, another meeting involving the same two guys from the state department and rick perry and some ukrainian government officials. i should mention that rick perry is reportedly now resigning his post just as he turns up right in the middle of all of this stuff and we learn about all of the meetings he was involved in including meetings with people who are key witnesses in the impeachment proceedings.

rick perry has said that his department will comply with requests for information. the department of defense says its top lawyer is collecting and preserving documents related to military aid to ukraine because it is now involved in the impeachment inquiry. and so witnesses, documents, records of what happened, no one will have has much protection under the law as the president, but the number of other people involved raises the prospect of lots of witnesses, documents, and materials laying out and proving exactly what happened. we expect that flow do to continue unabated. volker testified yesterday. today it was the inspector general. he testified for hours. on tuesday, the quid pro quo

guy, the trump donor. he will be testifying on tuesday morning. a week from today, it will be the european union ambassador. marie yavanovik. she was fired by the trump administration because she was perceived as being in the way of the efforts to extort ukraine. so again there are these core impeachment allegations, very simple. there is who else was involved in carrying it out. are they going to be witnesses now for the impeachment proceedings? what will they hand over for materials? beyond that there is the investigation into the coverup, the attempted coverup of what happened here. that may end up being a whole separate article of impeachment. to that end, nbc news reporting there was another criminal referral about the president's behavior toward ukraine. reporting that just as the formal whistle-blower report was being filed, the top lawyer at the cia herself made a criminal

referral of president trump's behavior to the justice department. and the justice department under bill barr did nothing about it. and this may be cya by the cia. forgive me. trying to make it seem like they did the right thing here, but if there was yet another criminal referral of the president's behavior to the justice department, it puts an even hotter spotlight on the fact that the bill barr justice department, the justice department not only declined to pursue charges against anyone involved here, but they flat-out refused to even open an investigation. late tonight, the news continues to break. the impeachment committees have now subpoenaed the white house directly. we learned that earlier this evening, and this is new. this is just in in the last few minutes as i sat down to start the show, from "the new york times," do we have it as a full screen?

yes, thank you, second official is weighing whether to blow the whistle on ukraine dealings by michael schmidt and adam goldman. a second official is weighing whether to file his own whistle-blower complaint and testify to congress. the official has more direct information about the first whistle-blower, saying that trump was using his power to get to his political rivals. the second is among those interviewed by the inspector general to corroborate the original whistle-blower. the inspector general briefed lawmakers about the initial account, it is not clear whether he told lawmakers that the second official is now considering filing a complaint. because the the second official has met with atkinson's office it is unclear if he needs to file a complaint to gain the legal protections.

the icig michael atkinson did brief lawmakers behind closed doors today. so this again is just breaking tonight. i expect that as this story continues to develop, honestly this weekend should be nuts. republican senators are basically volunteering to put themselves under general anesthetic now at least until the sunday shows are over. senator marco rubio was cornered about his thoughts today. he said as far as he can tell none of this is real. it's all an elaborate joke. you press are falling right into it, this isn't real. i have been trying that trick for years now. this isn't happening. this isn't happening. it feels awesome in the moment if you can convince yourself but then you open your eyes and you're still here and it is still unfolding. susan rice is here to join us for "the interview." that's next. ♪ (dramatic orchestra)

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to ensure that their leader was the last one on the line. it was a game that obama found ironic but not important. and he would simply busy himself with deskwork or scrabble on his ipad if putin would be slow to come to the phone. hello, vladimir. hello, barack. how are you? but it was mostly civil and respectful. despite the number of times they engaged, they were unable to resolve our stark differences over ukraine." that comes from a new book called "tough love" by susan rice. she was national security adviser for president obama. she was on the calls and in addition to this being a legitimately inspiring and fascinating new book, there is nobody in the world i would rather talk to about what is

going on in our world right now than her. joining us for the interview right now is susan rice. >> it is great to be with you. >> i want to talk to you about a million things. i found your book unexpectedly moving and inspiring and it made me think harder about the way i work. >> thank you, i appreciate that. coming from you. congratulations on your book, too. >> mine is darker, yours is more optimistic. >> that is an interesting contrast given our respective roles. >> and our respective experience. i want to ask about some of your experience. i think it is important for people to hear from you in terms of grounding and normal governance. i know you said you believe these impeachment proceedings are warranted. i also want to ask if you felt any differently about that over these past couple of days as the president has started openly confessing to do this, to openly confess to doing it with the ukraine and china, and he is

essentially daring people to hold him accountable to it. >> i was not swift to come to a conclusion that a impeachment inquiry was justified. i have various reservations. but as more information has come to light, in particular with what we learned about ukraine and now china, i don't see any alternative but to follow the inquiry and the facts where they go and make a judgment. what we learned yesterday when the president stood on the south lawn and said to the chinese government that he wants them to give him dirt on joe biden, which, by the way, to my knowledge, doesn't exist, it was even more extraordinary than what we witnessed with respect to ukraine in my judgment. because china is our most formidable and committed adversary. and we're in the middle of a hot trade war. and a very fraught security relationship.

we're competing over the cyber realm and the south china sea, and he said china, if you give me bogus dirt, i will consider a deal that we can cut to satisfy you. and the chinese are not stupid. yes, the chinese foreign minister said piously today that we wouldn't interfere in the american political process, and you poor people go sort yourself out. but that says you better not say a damn thing about hong kong because that is our internal matter. there is some leverage already. but the real concern in my judgment is that the chinese understand two things.

one, we have a president who is unpredictable, and not on his game, if he ever was. and that this might be a moment from their point of view to try to steal second base from us. whether or not that is, again, in a conflict zone where our forces are against each other. the economic realm, or the cyber realm. but it is also the case that the chinese might conclude that here's an opportunity to give trump what he wants, provided we end this trade war on terms favorable to china. and so essentially what the president is doing is proposing not very subtly is to sell out our farmers, our manufacturing, and do it for his own personal political benefit.

>> as china said, sort of piously, of course we would never do that, i saw that skeptically as well. it made me wonder about whether or not there is already operative, not hypothetically, but out there, an open invitation from the government that any government around the world that wants something in terms of u.s. policy may see that the way to do that is by freelancing this, by offering something to the president that he can use against his political opponents, whoever they are. whether it's made up or based in reality, that he's essentially opened a market for this, and said that u.s. policy is on the line. will other countries respond to that? >> that is exactly what he is doing, he is putting out an open for business side on the oval office, and he is trying to traffic in bogus dirt. at the expense of our national security and our national interest. >> if he will be impeached by that, very few people think that he will be removed from office for that. so that means he will be

censured, and one of only three americans who have ever been impeached. but if he continues to do it, and if republicans in the senate continue to believe that he should stay in office while he does that sort of thing, is there a way that we the people can harden ourselves as a target to that whatever the president is willing to do to our democracy and our country, inviting other countries to do what he is inviting them to do, is there a way that we can be resilient against that? >> first we have to vote. we have to participate in this process with all of our energy and our conviction. because this is not just an election that is at stake. i believe it is deeply and truly our democracy at stake. if we have four more years of the president that is putting us on the auction block for the highest bidder, you know, who is prepared to do what he wants for his personal political or financial gain, then that is not a country that we will recognize. >> voting out elected officials and not holding them to account is a good idea.

i'm worried given the electoral map of the country that it won't work. that the republican controlled senate will still be the republican controlled senate. i think i'm worried about the way that we the public were targeted in 2016, you know? i worry about what our government did or didn't do. and the way we were targeted and we're soft targets and we're swayed. >> we're absolutely soft targets and one of the very important messages that i'm trying to convey in "tough love" is that our domestic political divisions are, in fact, at the moment, our greatest vulnerability. the russians figured that out. they figured out they could pit people against each other on both sides of every divisive issue, race, guns, gay rights, if they can exploit those fissures that exist and exacerbate them and cause us to question one another's loyalty and decency as americans, then

they don't have to fire a bullet to take us down. that is the risk that we face. so when you ask about resiliency, it's not just about voting, it's about being educated and voting. people understanding that our adversaries are trying to exploit these divisions, and that we, because we created these divisions amongst ourselves, have the ability to rectify them. the only good news is that this is a problem of our own making, therefore it is a problem that we can solve if we listen to one another, understand each other, and change our system in ways that isolates the extremes and empowers the more moderates among us. >> if we're willing to grow up a little bit as a democracy. >> well, grow up not just as a democracy, but as consumers of our political process. so right now it is very easy if you want to just get your news off of breitbart or buzzfeed, to not listen to anything else.

and not talk to anybody who may have a different perspective and not question the veracity of the information that you're consuming. we need to teach ourselves how to evaluate the truth of information, how to argue, debate, and be open to alternative opinions. i mean, this is deep. the remedies will not be swift, and i proposed some dramatic steps like mandatory national service for americans between the ages of 18 and 21. spend six months or a year, every single one of us, working on something that serves the country and requires us to know and work alongside with and cooperate with people who come from vastly different backgrounds than we do. that is the kind of thing we need to think about if we recognize that these divisions which we are suffering from, our adversaries are exploiting, are a potential death knell if we don't get it together.

after having said all of that, i think it is worth recalling that as dark as this moment may seem to some people, including to you and me, we're old enough and we have studied enough history to recall that we have been through a whole lot worse in this country. we have been through a civil war, reconstruction, the mccarthy era, vietnam, the civil rights era, our cities were literally burning down. students were shot on campuses. we have been through much worse and come out stronger and that's what this moment calls for. >> susan rice, her book is called "tough love." we'll be right back with her after this. stay with us. every move. you think this is love? this is a billion years of tiger dna just ready to pounce. and if you have the wrong home insurance coverage,

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i just wasn't as sure as some that she would. i first ventured this in an argument in august in 2015 with president obama. it preceded any primaries, but came after trump had declared his candidacy." "as we bantered, i said i could see a way for trump to gain the republican nomination. no way, no way, the others said, that will never happen. and i said there is a lot of hate out there. i was sufficiently ridiculed that i dropped the argument, comforted that the political experts thought i was crazy." joining us now is susan rice, former ambassador to the united nations. she is out with this new book called "tough love." you weren't crazy. you saw that coming. but when you said there is a lot of hate out there, some people can't get over where we are now, what did you mean by where we

are now? >> i meant that there are some, i hope a relatively small minority of us, who never really could reconcile themselves to having a second term successful african-american president who basically ran a scandal-free administration, happily married, a good father, all of those things that are very normal and uncomfortable for some. so that's what i meant and i didn't have to be more explicit than that in that setting. but i think it is more than that. obviously there are many aspects to what resulted in the 2016 election. and i say in the book, i really don't think we can afford to discount or disparage the perspectives of our fellow americans with whom we differ.

i talked about how i have to deal with the challenge in my own household, my 22-year-old son who is a traditional conservative in contrastparty.

who the

government with the economic support they needed to stabilize. so we gave them this money, we want to be sure it's not going down a hole. that's u.s. government policy. that's what joe biden was pursuing. in contrast to donald trump, who was pursuing his own personal political interests. trying to leverage our military assistance, almost $400 million

and a white house visit, with troops five years in to a hot shooting war to undermine this guy unless he manufactures some bogus dirt or skrn joe biden. there's an effort by donald trump to hide this. we talked about it publicly, and they were part of u.s. government policy. there's absolutely nothing similar here. what we need to be worried about is that we have frighteningly a president of the united states who is not pursuing america's i countries like ukraine, adversaries like china, as with

russia in 2016, to get involved on his side. and then he's sending folks like bill barr around the world to our closest allies -- >> to try to exonerate russia to 2016. >> and also to try to convey to them they have to play ball with donald trump if they want to remain in our good graces. we're extorting our allies and we're getting or soliciting help from our enemieenemies. >> susan rice, it's a real honor to have you here. >> great to be here. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. erty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything.

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panera's new warm grain full of flavor, color,. full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. panera. food as it should be. there's some good news about democratic candidate bernie sanders. at a campaign event in nevada on tuesday, he experienced chest pain. went to a local hospital. he was treated for a blocked coronary artery.

his campaign said he had two stents put in to open the clogged artery. he had been in the hospital since then. but today he emerged smiling and waving. the campaign says he was diagnosed with a myocardial smiling and waving. the campaign said he was diagnosed with a myocardial infarction more commonly known as a heart attack it is good to see him heading out today. the senator's campaign says he will be back out on the campaign trail soon. i will see you again on monday. i'll be live from los angeles. one of the stops on my book tour. i will tell you weirdly on sunday night, has the new tv show on the cw called bat woman and i have a voice role in the new bat woman tv show. is not that crazy? i know. anyway, it's