and i would just tell keith, well done. your time on earth here was well done. >> that's all for this edition of "date line" i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. good morning, everyone. i'm jo ling kent in new york at msnbc world headquarters, 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west, a lot going on. developments in the president's impeachment fight, from a report of a new potential whistle-blower, to questions about what the justice department did not do. to the president insisting it's about cooked up, not about politics. >> what i saw biden do with his son, he is pillaging these countries and hurting us. joe biden, joe biden. >> also, widening impeachment inquiry, is turning to the vice president. and behind the health scare.

new information on bernie sanders' heart and what it means for his 2020 campaign. >> we've got breaking news for you this morning. there is into you reporting of what could become a major piece of evidence in the impeachment inquiry. "the new york times" reporting overnight, that a second intelligence official is considering whether to file a whistle-blower complaint about the president. seeking foreign help from ukraine against a political opponent. the times reporting the second official has more direct information about the events detailed in the first whistle-blower complaint and that the second official is among those interviewed by the intelligence leader, inspector general, to corroborate the allegations the whistle-blower. the new reporting highlights the lengths president trump and the inner circle have gone to to investigate the bidens. and remember the president himself has already admitted to this. >> if we feel there is corruption, we have a right to go to a foreign country.

>> president zelenski, if it were me, i would recommend that they start an investigation into the bidens. if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the bidens. likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. we had a great conversation. it was largely the fact that we don't want our people like vice president biden and his son creating, with the corruption already in ukraine. >> here is what is new in the last 24 hours. house democrats have subpoenaed the white house and requested documents from the vice president, secretary of state mike pompeo has failed to meet a subpoena deadline for documents that house democrats say the state department has reached out. and nbc news is reporting that c.i.a.'s top lawyer, made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the justice department, about the allegations made by the whistle-blower, against the president. and democrats are quickly gathering evidence and testimony

yesterday, the intelligence inspector general testified behind closed doors. next friday, it's the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine's turn. and we have learned that tuesday, the u.s. ambassador to the eu, the european union, is set to testify as well. and sondland was one of three u.s. diplomats whose text messages reveal how they worked to persuade ukraine to publicly commit to investigate the president's political opponent. meanwhile, joe biden, the former vice president, has responded, and keep in mind there is no evidence here of wrongdoing by either the former vice president, or his son hunter. >> all this talk about corruption comes from the most corrupt president we've had in modern history. it's the definition of corruption. he's indicted himself by his own statements. this is not about me. it's not about my son. there's not a shred of evidence that anything we've done is wrong. this guy like all bullies is a

coward. he does not want to run against me. >> now, we have nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell joining us. the impeachment probe now directly reaching into the white house with a new subpoena. what is the white house's response here? >> reporter: well, as you might expect, jo, the white house is pushing back, very vigorously on this, saying that this subpoena changes nothing. of course, it is a request for document, aimed at the acting chief of staff. but one of the things that is also new, it is a request not a spen to the vice president's office, asking for documents related to his interactions with ukraine. he was on a call with ukraine. he visited with president delins zelenski separately from president trump and what did he know and when did he know it and the vice president's office pushed back saying that the media learned about this request for documents before his own office did. they've turned it over to their counsel. and they go on to say, in a

statement, that the vice president's office will cooperate with that, by turning it over to the counsel. they will review it, but they then say, given the scope, this does not appear to be a series request. but just another attempt by the, and this is their phrasing, do nothing democrats to call attention to their partisan impeachment. so that gives you a sense of how the vp's office is framing this. saying that this is political. and that they have been swept up in it. and aren't quite sure yet how they're going to respond. we've seen from the trump administration more broadly, jo, has been a push-back at every interval, not wanting to provide the cooperation that democrats on capitol hill think they should have. one of the ideas has been the white house says you must take a full house vote, asking every member of congress to weigh in on whether there should be an impeachment inquiry or not. before they would cooperate. house democrats say there is no basis in law for that, and that that is an unfounded request. jo?

>> kelly o'donnell at the white house, thank you so much. appreciate it. and joining me now is kadia tubman, and david leventhal, editor at large at the center for public integrity. good morning, guys. >> good morning. >> let's start with the "new york times" reporting that a second intelligence official is considering whether to file the whistle-blower complaint. kadia, as you know, the president has called those who gave information to the first whistle-blower spies end quote. and what would happen to this impeachment inquiry if another whistle-blower comes through, do you think? >> what we should hope, jo, at this point is, to see more information that backs up what the democrats are holding against the fire, and through this process of inquiring into the impeachment. really, what they're using, the democrats, may be credible and what we are questioning now, or what reporters are looking into, is how much evidence can they secure to present information in the following weeks, or months, however they see to complete this fast-paced inquiry will

come forward and help them decide what to do next. >> so the evidence is mounting as kadia said. the potential whistle-blower complaint and the in crim flating text messages that we all, incriminating text messages that we all read on thursday night about the president's diplomat, and the call and the president's own admission and a lot of on tape evidence as we say. what do you think the cumulative effect is on this investigation? >> first of all, given everything that you just said, this is going to take some time. i think i talked to a lot of folks who said well, it seems like the democrats do have a lot, they're going to move quickly. i would say the opposite is probably going to be the truth in that this could be a weeks or months long process going forward. the evidence that has mounted right now is not just the evidence that we're going to have. there is likely to be more that comes out. there is going to be inquiries of course by the house intelligence committee and like the other committees that is going to potentially produce more evidence, more question, and more deliberation, toward

the goal that democrats have of having an ultimate impeachment vote. remember that this is an inquiry. this is not the actual impeachment process. where a vote is imminent. and just keep that in mine as we go forward. >> that's true. and the president, suggested yesterday that he would win senate impeachment trial, if it did come to that. listen to this. >> we have a great relationship in the senate. i have a 95% approval rating in the republican party. i believe the senate, and i haven't spoken to that many senators, but i believe the senators look at this as a hoax, it's a witch hunt, it's a disgrace. >> so check out this graphic here, that axios broke down, the republican senators that he's talking about and some of them obviously running for re-election soon, 15 are running in states where the president is popular and five are running in states where he is unpopular, and the numbers are in favor of the president being cleared in the senate.

this map is clear and apparent for quite some time. kadia, are we seeing any cracks here? is there a possibility that some of the numbers we just showed you on the screen could change? >> we're not seeing any cracks, the gop has been very strong in standing against their president, and what we're going to probably see going forward is just more questioning of the facts that are coming out, more pushing back against the democrats, who are seeking this inquiry, but definitely, we're seeing that there might be some folks in danger of losing their seats next year, and that may impact how they go about speaking against trump or in favor of him? >> so we also saw iowa senator joanie erns running in a state where the president is unpopular and a constituent at a town hall pressed her thon matter and her response was really interesting. watch this. >> the whistle-blower should be protected, please let folks out there know. >> and our president can be threatening them and they also can be encouraging other

countries to investigate his political rival? >> i would say to that, corruption no matter where it is, should be ferreted out. corruption is corruption. and it should be combatted. >> but it is okay for a president to invite our countries -- >> okay we're going to move on to another question. but what i would say is we can't determine that yet. >> so dave, you've got senator joanie ernst there not defending the president but also unwilling to go any further than basically a talking point here. what does that say about the dilemma that is facing her? >> well, it's dilemma facing a lot of republicans, but also, too, at the same time, republicans are sticking with donald trump and the u.s. senate. if the impeachment vote, if there was an impeachment vote, if it was being held today, there is almost certainly no way that donald trump would be removed from office. it takes a two-thirds vote in the u.s. senate to remove donald trump, or any president, in an

impeachment process, and the votes just simply aren't there. even if he had a couple of moderate republican senator, susan colin, a few others, who might be on the fence, it is simply not going to be enough to remove donald trump, knowing what we know today and given the political climate that we have today. so donald trump, hey, even if he does get impeached, the notion of a big red wall for donald trump in the u.s. senate is alive and well, and she take great solace in that, at that. >> but these impeachment inquiries, these trials, the whole process can take a very long time. dave, do you think there is any possibility that republicans or a republican or two who could be critical to the impeachment vote, on either side, would turn on the president? >> there's definitely a possibility that you could have a couple of republicans peel away, but you're going to need a whole lot of republicans to peel away, and go against the president, to turn on the president, in order for the president to be removed from office. so the writing is not on the

wall at all in that regard. and hey, it's also important to note, too that a lot could happen between now and an ultimate senate impeachment trial. that is likely again to be a month's long process, go well into the teeth of the 2020 election, and by virtue of that, this could have additional information, and all of the deliberations, and what comes of that, playing into that, but still, even in that case, it seems highly unlikely at this point in time that donald trump would be removed from office in the senate. >> kadia, what do you think on that question? do you think there are a couple of republicans here that if they turned on the president, and changed their mind on how things ought to go, that they could attract enough republicans to actually create a sea change here, down the line? >> so we've been hearing, jo, about democrats saying that they are, and there have been republicans in secret or in private have spoken out against the president, and haven't yet

come forward in support of anything that is investigating him or his white house. so we can theorize that there might be some republicans down the road who might come forward, and that will just be the leading force to bring more over to their side, but there is a great risk for them, especially going into 2020, who knows how long this will take, if they come out in favor of the republicans, or i'm sorry, the democrats and their inquiry, they could lose, and in some case, those moderate or very endangered gop, lose voters easily , and this has to be a strategic move on their part and they could take months as we already discussed to go forward. >> all right, kadia, dave, thank you for getting up early with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. a breaking story this morning. 2020 contender senator bernie sanders is out of the hospital. after suffering a heart attack. sanders was hospitalized on tuesday, after experiencing chest pain, while campaigning in

nevada. he was treated for what his campaign describes at the time as a blockage in his one artery. joining me now, fwary, following the senator on the campaign trail. gary, what is the latest? how is the senator doing here? >> hey there, jo, all report, all signs point to senator sanders doing well, he walked out of the desert springs hospital in las vegas yesterday on his own wearing his classic blazer and button down and the campaign put up a statement after three days in the hospital which we originally thought was a blocked artery for the 78-year-old senator, he had a heart attack doctors say. after he got out of the hospital, the senator and his wife, took a wife at paradise park in nearby las vegas where they recorded this video message. >> i just got out of the hospital. a few hours ago. and i'm feeling so much better. i just want to thank all of you for the love and warm wishes that you sent to me.

see you soon on the campaign trail. >> so what's next for the senator? he is off to burlington, vermont, today, he spent the night here in las vegas, he is off to burlington vermont today, where i'm told he will spend three day, a couple of days relaxing and getting better here and i am promised by the campaign that he will be on the debate stage in ohio, on october 15. jo? >> gary, the senator says he will take a short time off, a few days as you report here, but how long do you think, does he actually need to recover here, to give some of his more skeptical supporters the security to know, okay, he's going to be fully healed, and fully back up to speed? >> well, i think there is a fine line. there i don't think the campaign wants to be down for too long. they don't want to seem like somebody that took too long to recover but they don't want to get back on the trail too quickly and i have been covering him nonstop since may, and he

has four or five events a day and he is running us ragged across iowa and new hampshire, the early campaign states and i think the campaign has to be easy on what he do and he is a 78-year-old senator and he needs to recover fully. >> it will be interesting to see how voters react to this and gary good luck on the trail and we will have you back later. thank you. the fight over the president's tax returns takes a new intense turn. it involves another possible whistle-blower. we will explain. ible whistle-blower we will explain. he community, we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. and now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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while the president and his team are working to discredit the ukraine whistle-blower, another person has come forward, according to house ways and means chairman richard neil who said his committee in july received unsolicited communication from a federal employee setting forth credible allegations of evidence of possible misconduct. and the "washington post" now reporting that the whistle-blower is an irs official with was told at least one political appointee attempted to improperly interfere with the annual audit of the president, or vice president, tax returns. joining me now to break this down is msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. good morning, danny. >> good morning. >> are there rules that the irs has to be auditing the president and the vp? >> they are and they date all the way back to the nixon administration. nixon and his vice president were em broiled in controversy and over their taxes so that has been in the irs tax manual for many decades now. and there are many rules about.

it and it is very specific. they have to do it quickly. the irs has to complete the audits very quickly. their there are even rules about what color envelope they have to be in. so these rules have been around for a long time. on the other hand, you have congress, and several courts have already looked at the issue, that congress, as long as it is investigating for a legitimate legislative purpose, also has an ability to access those tax returns if required. >> danny, what color are those envelopes? what color do they have to be? >> apparently they're orange. who knew, right? maybe, i don't know what the system is there, but it is a very, i'm sure they have a pretty good reason for it. >> orange envelopes. okay, so the big headline yesterday was of course, that the u.s. treasury acting inspector general is going to be investigating the treasury department's handling of the house request for president trump's personal and business tax returns. what does that entail? >> this is, now what is going to happen is they're going to look

into whether or not this was, this normal process, was interfered with, by the executive branch and in a strange sense, the tax, the irs is contained within the executive branch, which always makes these analyses complicated because one could argue these are all things that trump sem powered to do. but at the same time if he is interfering with the normal irs process, and the process laid out in the irs manual, the fact that the president and the vice president are supposed to be audited every single year, then is he exceeding his boundaries, as the president and his executive power? >> so what does this complaint then mean for the house ways and means committee? >> it gives them more grist for the mill. more things to investigate. and as i mentioned briefly, that's where the congress's power to investigate becomes so critical. at least one federal judge in a lengthy opinion very recently reaffirmed congress' power to conduct investigations. it doesn't need to be

legislative certainty that relates to the investigation. but just anything that could potentially relate to congress' legitimate legislative purpose of creating our laws. so as long as they can tie it to that, they can access this information. and this kind of level of evidence that there's something curious afoot, probably gives them the authority to conduct the investigation. >> so the "washington post" is also reporting that the administration dismissed the complaint as quote flimsy, because it was based on conversations with other government officials. do you think that the secondhand information here ends up being important? or unimportant? i mean what, wouldn't an investigation actually determine that? >> we've been hearing a lot about the word hearsay lately. but i want people to stop using this word. it is a word of, a rule of evidence that only sometimes applies in certain court situations. it's a very, very narrow rule. in reality, in investigations,

when law enforcement, police, fbi, are interviewing folks or conducting investigations or trying to find out if a crime or wrongdoing was committed, hearsay or secondhand information is a vital tool. ultimately to get a conviction or to admit something at a trial, you need to get something more than hearsay, more than just rumor or innuendo, but at the front end of an investigation, law enforcement, police officers, detectives, they love hearsay. they love gossip. it's what gives them the thread to pull on to bring down the entire sweater. >> it is what so much reporting starts as, as well before you get to those substantive facts, you start with something, right? >> that's right. >> danny cevallos, thank you so much. >> thank you. a new report this morning in the "washington post" says the president's calls to foreign leaders have genuinely horrified some of his own aides. those details next. >> and the impeachment inquiry dominated this week's late night

laugh lines like this. >> the impeachment vultures are circling, and he's worried because he knows there is a lot of meat left on that bone. >> people close to trump are worried that he is becoming more and more unglued. at this point, the only glued parts of trump are his teeth and his hair. >> china should start an investigation into the bidens. >> just when you think trump can't dig himself a deeper hole, he literally reaches china. >> at this point, trump should cold call countries asking them if they want to collude. >> hello ecuador, do you have any dirt on joe biden? no? do you have bolivia's number? with my hepatitis c, i felt i couldn't be at my best for my family.

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good morning, here's a look at the morning headlines. legal im grants to the u.s. who do not have health insurance willing not get a visa starting next month. it is part of a trump administration effort to limit immigrants who are receiving any kind of government assistance. the new policy could impact 400,000 people every year. prince harry is filing a lawsuit against two british tabloids, claiming they illegally hacked his voice mail. he is suing the owners of the sun and the daily mirror, for

what he is calling a ruthless campaign against his wife, the duchess of sussex, meghan markle. it comes days after the couple announced a separate lawsuit saying the mail published a private letter of markle's without permission. and a florida man selected for jury duty ended up serving time of his own, when he didn't show up for court. deandre summerville said he overslept, and missed the start of his assigned trial. in return, the judge sentenced him to ten days in jail. >> they did show me that one small decision can really impact others, and there are people who made worse decisions but at the same time you just take from it and just learn. just keep moving. >> summerville also ended up with three months probation. and community service. >> all right. breaking news here, a doctor for bernie sanders is now saying the senator and 2020 presidential candidate suffered a heart

attack. and sanders is out of the hospital this morning, he was hospitalized tuesday, after experiencing chest pain, while campaigning in nevada, where he was treated for a blockage of one artery. joining me now to discuss this is dr. natalie azar. good morning, good to see you. >> good morning. >> first things first, there was a statement from the sanders campaign here and we want to read it for you, the senator was stable upon arrival, and taken immediately to the cardiac cath therization laboratory, at which time two stents were placed in a blocked coronary artery in a timely fashion. all other arteries were normal. and that comes from senator sanders' doctor. what can you gauge? >> how do we interpret that? >> yes. >> so listen, not uncommon for this to happen, right? we know heart disease is incredibly common. and as we get older, the risks certainly increase. i reached out to a few cardiologists and just give me your quick interpretation of what you think.

and again, we're not the doctors who were treating bernie sanders, but this is just based on the medical evidence, which would suggest he had what is called an uncomplicated m.i., after having sustained a small heart attack, he probably didn't have any congestive heart failure or arrhythmia, afterwards which could affect prognosis. in a situation like this, depending how much of the heart muscle was actually involved, if it was a small amount, you know, experts generally say, one to two weeks of recovery time, and then patients can go on, and live a long healthy life, and really have no consequences from this. >> okay, so one to two weeks of recovery time. senator sanders is saying he wants a short time off, this is a campaign as we reported earlier, saying he is on the trail doing four to five events a day, and exhausting his own journalists that are covering him. >> right. >> i mean how long does he need to recover here? he's got a debate in ten days. >> look, i certainly couldn't advise him myself, i'm not his treating physician and i would

certainly defer to the judgment of his cardiologist and his physician, and the team of physicians to say when it is okay for him to safely go back. you know, i think it is important to remember, too, that we talk a lot about the age of the candidate, right now, and i think that a lot of experts have the philosophy that it is not so much the chronological age, but rather ha what is called your biological age which means how healthy are you, how well you are functioning, and that is more of a determinant of how healthy you are, and able to, you know, sustain the rig ors of a candidacy or a presidency. >> will what are some of the things that determine your biological age? >> things like your lifestyle choices. your diet. your exercise. certainly genetics play a factor into all of this. you know, we do a lot of segments like this on the "today" show, especially where we talk about how certain interventions that you can do, like risk factors that can you modify yourself, with diet, and exercise, can actually change your biological age. i think it is a really

fascinating field in a way. >> it is fascinating because when you're on the campaign trail, as i have been covering the 2012 race back in the day, your lifestyle is not awesome, not a ton of exercise, it is certainly a lot of food choices that you would rather not have to make. >> right. >> so how does a candidate, and his campaign, make the best choices. >> i think we all do every single day, we have to make these choice, and you know, one could argue that the, a candidacy or running for president is actually a decent stress test for someone, and that someone who is able to keep the schedule that he's been able to keep, all of the candidates, frankly, are showing a certain robustness. and you know what, just, it always, we always talk about this at this time, candidates are not obligated legally to disclose their medical history, and their medical records, which i think is interesting, and there is no formal standard for presidential fitness in terms of medical health or mental health. so it leaves a lot to

interpretation. and it is sometimes hard to gauge, and you can't really make a prediction, right? even if we have medical records, it is really like a snapshot of somebody somebody's health. it's not a crystal ball. things can happen to anybody at any time truly at any age so again, we will see what happens in the next few months and what kind of records we're going to see from the candidates, but we have to rely on the guidance of their treating physicians to determine whether or not it's safe for them to run for president, and likely is, if you look at precedent, there are former candidates, and former presidents in general, have had very serious medical issues. i mentioned dig cheney is one of them. his first heart attack in his 30s. and had a defibrillator placed. and as we always commented, he was a heartbeat away from the presidency. >> always pulling things in perspective for us, thanks for being here so early this morning. appreciate it. new today, the front pages both "the new york times" and the "washington post," focusing on the text messages showing

snippets of conversations about military aid to ukraine, president trump's request for investigations, and fears they might be connected to his re-election campaign. this week, more reports surfaced that the president requested help from the u.k., italy, and australia, to dig up the origins of the mueller investigation. that's separate from the president's request of investigations into joe and hunter biden. first privately, in a secret phone call to the ukraine's prime minister, and now, almost cynically and publicly on the white house lawn, china. >> china should start an investigation into the bidens. because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with, with ukraine. >> joining me now is christopher dicky, world news editor with the daily beast and msnbc contributor, christopher, good morning. good afternoon. the president's calls to foreign leaders here, the "washington post" says some have left a

genuinely horrified, but the ukraine's top prosecutor taking another look at the biden-related case. what does that say to you? >> well, look, i mean i think we've got several things going on with president trump. basically he is trying to re-write history. he wants to get these other foreign leaders, especially ukraine and president zelensky, to cooperate with him, to show that the mueller report was all some kind of fabricated plot against donald j. trump and that the counter-intelligence operations, to prove or to establish what the russians were doing in the u.s. election, all a nefarious effort to discredit him. at the same time this president who is without question the most corrupt president in my lifetime is trying to prove that joe biden is corrupt because he thinks that joe bitden is his main opposition in the upcoming 2020 elections. so he is lashing out in every

direction. he's using the power of his office to try and enlist the aid of other foreign leaders to support him in this. and they're pushing back or they're trying to dance around his demands. that's what we see ukraine doing, where they keep saying we will sort of look at this, we will kind of help you, but they don't actually do very much. >> okay, so we also see the russian president vladimir putin, is giving president trump's overtures somewhat of a thumbs up here. he used some sarcasm when he responded to our own keir simmens in moscow a few days ago. listen to this. >> is russia, as robert mueller alleged, attempting to influence the 2020 election in the united states? >> translator: i'll tell you in a secret, yes, we'll definitely intervene. it's a secret. so that everybody can laugh.

and so we will go big, but don't tell anyone, please. please don't tell anyone. >> clearly, putin is trying to come off as joking here but is he telling everyone something else? is he trying to pass this off? >> you know, ha, ha, ha, right, jo? look, there's an old saying, the mobsters in america, they talk about kidding on the level, it's a way of saying south carolina that you absolute that, way of saying something that you absolutely mean to be true and that's umtdly a joke and vladimir putin is saying that and president trump saying and russia, if you're listening see if you can find the hillary clinton email, he said it was just a joke. and it wasn't a joke at all. and putin is not joking either. we know perfectly well he is going to try and influence the american elections.

although he really didn't need to do much to try to help donald trump because donald trump frankly is still in a very strong position, thanks to the election of 2016, where the russians played a very major role. >> christopher, we also are hearing from the president's senior adviser, peter navarro and here is what he said about the future of u.s. foreign relations. i thought this was interesting. >> how is that a u.s. president going forward is ever going to be able to have a candid conversation with a foreign leader about any sensitive matter if the jackals are always wanting to get things revealed? you guys want every transcript revealed of everything. >> well, no surprise journalists want transcripts of everything revealed because we want to know what is actually going on here now, but what navarro said, how he couched that, is that just an excuse then, to not release more critical information? i mean had he been, had trump been more traditionally presidential here, maybe we'd

never hear about this, and christopher, what do you think? >> well, i think you're exactly right, i think the issue here is not trying to reveal trump's sensitive conversations about matters of state. the issue here is that a lot of people, right around trump, listened in on that conversation, with president zelensky of ukraine and said this is clearly an abuse of power. we better hide this transcript. and you know, jo, something to remember, we still have not seen the actual complete transcript of that phone call. we still have not heard the actual complete recording of that phone call. we're still talking about notes about the phone call, which is probably a lot less than we've actual, than was actually said. >> christopher dicky, thank you so much. we appreciate it. and we have biden on the defense. but is he punching hard enough? how the ukraine story is impacting his campaign. next. xtne if you live with diabetes,

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there were major developments on the campaign trail this week during a whirlwind of trump/ukraine revelations, former vice president joe biden escalated his rhetoric, in a potentially pivotal moment. here he is firing back at the president during a rally in nevada. >> let me make something clear to mr. trump and his hatchet men. and the special interest funding, his attacks against me.

i'm not going anywhere. i'm not going to, you're not going to destroy me, and you're not going to destroy my family. i don't care how much money you spend, mr. president. or how dirty the attacks get. >> joining me now is democratic strategist antjuan, former adviser to hillary clinton's campaign in south carolina. good morning. >> good morning. >> the back and forth here between president trump and joe biden, how is it actually playing with voters? do we have a good sense of that yet? >> i don't think we do but what i think the biden campaign has to do is focus on quall of life, quality of life issues and something that donald trump has failed at and everything else gets lost in the noise. the president wants to distract everyone, including independent thinkers and independent voters from his terrible, absolutely horrible record from a legislative standpoint and delivering on the promises he

made. so therefore, it is so important to block and tackle, block out his distractions and tackle what matter, and tackle what got us to the majority in the 2018 midterms. >> and do you think the democrats need the front-runner to hit back harder here on the major news events of the day? this is not just random scuttle. i mean this is something that has caused an impeachment inquiry. >> well, absolutely. i think biden has demonstrated his ability to fight and to fight back. i still think he has to do both. you know, the song, it takes two to make a thing go right. and to show that he can too put forth a policy agenda that speaks to people who don't always pay attention to the things that we pay attention, to those of us in the business for a living and i think that is so important, because when people think about how do you deal with higher prescription drug prices

and health care costs and how you feed your family, and they are not thinking about what donald trump is saying because to be honest there are places in this country that don't have the internet to access twitter. >> and the candidate, speaking of all of those on the campaign trail, they announced third quarter fundraising numbers and bernie sanders raised the most with $25 million. and elizabeth warren very close behind and pete buttigieg as well but joe biden fell much further behind here, 15.2 million. that put him in fourth place. you can see kamala harris, andrew yang, with a surprise $10 million. how are you interpreting all of this? who is walking away the weakest in this situation? >> i don't call it weak in any regard. because when you add those numbers together, collectively, and this does not include the dnc and ds, when you add the numbers together, we are right in line with the republicans and the president were in terms of fundraising. that is a plus for democrats. i think the number that

elizabeth warren and bernie sanders and mayor pete put up shows strength but i do not panic when it comes to biden because i think he is in a different position than the other candidates because the voters have demonstrated in poll after poll, that they believe that he is the person to take on donald trump. money doesn't always mean momentum. and money doesn't always translate to a movement. i do think -- >> but -- >> but -- >> to get on the air waves, to run those ads, and to continue momentum, as you pointed out -- >> i'm not. >> you got to have money, right? >> you will not get any disagreement that money is important. but what i'm saying is the front-runner has a little, is in a different position than the other candidates, because he has the ability to continue to get out on the trail, and galvanize people that translates to votes. money doesn't always mean votes. >> how long do you think cory booker, andrew yang and kamala harris stay in this race? >> with knows. i think competition is good for the marketplace. i'm not in the business of counting anyone out. i learned early on in my career, when you count people out, they

usually teach you that you do not know how to count. i just hope when it is all said and done, we stay focused and know that collectively, when this race comes to an end, we have to be on the same man, one sound and a message against donald trump. how concerned are democrats when bernie sanders is only going to take a short time off. >> my prayers are with him. i will detail the senator because i have a family member who just experienced something simil similar. your health is your wealth, take your time. do what's in the best interests of you long-term and hopefully you will continue to add to this conversation. >> new developments in ukraine. it might make you think that the president's call for investigating biden and his son just might be working.

new today, ukraine's top prosecutor is taking a fresh look at cases related to the gas company where joe biden's son was a board member. but the case review may not be what president trump is hoping

for. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley joins us from kiev with more. what exactly is ukraine's prosecutor looking for? is joe biden or his son in any sort of legal jeopardy there? >> just bear with me for a second. in kiev they're hosting a massive marathon behind me. the prosecutor that came out and made that announcement, what he said is they're going to be auditing previous cases that have been handled by previous prosecutors. now that does look suspicious and from a first glance and especially from the u.s. perspective, it does look like the administration of president zelensky in ukraine is capitulating to the demands by the trump administration. particularly what was said on the now-notorious phone call from july where the president asked for a favor from president zelensky and said he wanted zelensky to quote look into burisma holdings, which was the company that hunter biden had served on the board for a few years. and the response from president

zelensky was -- this upcoming prosecutor going to be 100% my person. well this prosecutor yesterday who made that announcement about the review, the auditing of those previous cases? that is that person. that is zelensky's person. we should state here it's very important to note that this review is not necessarily going to be opening any of those previous cases. it's actually just going to be auditing them. and each audit will take about several months for what could be as many as dozens of different cases, they've said that 15 of those cases could involve burisma holdings, the company that's notorious in ukraine for its corruption but again that doesn't mean they're going to be opening those cases. some of the cases that are going to be reviewed might have involved burisma holdings before hunter biden even sat on the board. and we have to note from a u.s. perspective, it's different than from a ukrainian perspective. in the ukraine, burisma holdings isn't the most notorious of

companies that have been afflicted by corruption. it has nothing to do with the cases that are causing the central part of the impeachment process in the united states. this could mean legal jeopardy for the bidens, but it might not be exactly what president trump thinks it is. >> nbc's matt bradley in kiev thank you so much. the giuliani effect next hour. new details just revealed about how involved he was in the ukraine situation.