forward. we know it's gone. it's the past. move on to better days. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning. i'm jo ling kent in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. here's what's happening right now. he went to jared, the president's new plan to fight the impeachment inquiry. >> this is what's wrong when the world doesn't focus on the things that are right, the things that matter, that impact real people's lives. you get caught up in a gotcha game. >> the secretary of state making his case against the inquiry. while it's full steam ahead for new testimony this week on capitol hill. joe biden getting aggressive, his message to america in the midst of this impeachment fight. new heartbreak in dallas. a key witness in the amber

guyger trial is shot and killed. we're starting this morning with breaking news. tens of thousands of people taking to the streets of hong kong in the rain wearing masks in defines of a new ban. it took effect on saturday. a second legal attempt to block it failed. city leaders say the ban was needed to stop widespread violence because masks allow radical protesters to conceal their identities. we're getting word from kansas city, also breaking this morning that nine people have been shot inside a bar and four of them are dead. police have released few details right now, but they're looking for one suspect who en tertered bar and opened fire. the shooter is unknown and no one is in custody. we're shifting over to washington. a new reporting about how the president is defending the controversial call of the impeachment inquiry. he's blaming energy secretary

rick perry. two sources telling nbc news the president told house republicans on friday that perry urged him to make the july 25th call. the sources say the president suggested he did not even want to make that call. the president drawing in perry over a phone call in which the president admitted he pushed ukraine to investigate his political rival joe biden. perry is set to resign by the end of this year. this is impeachment evidence has been rapidly accumulating with crucial pieces expected to come this week, including testimony from a u.s. diplomat whose explosive text messages have been called a smoking gun. as the president attacks republican senator mitt romney for criticizing him. one of the president's top allies in the house echoing the white house stance. the house minority leader attacking nancy pelosi for not holding a full house vote to hold the impeachment inquiry. >> why can't the president have fairness? there was no quid pro quo.

they want to control everything of the president trump is the most transparent president we have ever had. nothing in their is impeachable. nothing illegal about what just happened. >> more house democrats support an impeachment inquiry than the simple majority required to pass it in the house. two top democrats laid this out to msnbc in terms of their messaging strategy. >> we're going to proceed expeditiously. but we're going to proceed fairly and comprehensively and make it clear to the american people that this is about betrayal, abuse of power, national security, the undermining of the integrity of our elections and this is about the united states constitution. >> to be asking the help of china, the ukraine and who knows what other countries the president weighed in to get political favors. it's not just asking for favors. it's using the power of the u.s. government. >> we have a new response from

joe biden from the president's debunked attacks. the former vice president writing headlined trump won't destroy me and he won't destroy my family. this as questions arise whether biden's pushback -- whether it's enough after the president had weeks to frame a narrative against him. nbc white house correspondent kelly o'donnell is with us now. kelly,back to that story about the president pinning the call on rick perry. what was the point of bringing this up with republicans now? >> well, it's hard to know exactly what the intentions were. but we can certainly analyze the lay of the land. this began with the first public acknowledgment from the president. it was a congratulatory call. then it evolved it was about corruption and now it's somebody else's fault. the president talking about energy secretary rick perry in part because there is an energy piece to the ukraine relationship with the united states to say to fellow republicans that rick perry, who

it's important to point out is popular among traditional republicans. remember, before joining the administration he was the longest serving governor of texas and so he's got good relationships there. to suggest this was his idea might take some of the sting out of this idea that the president was really focused on the bidens. however, when you look at the transcript, the notes of the call actually, the reconstructed conversation that the white house released, rick perry is not mentioned in there and there's not a discussion of energy. was the president looking for some kind of cover? hard to know. now, i spoke with officials from the department of energy who say in a statement to nbc news that secretary perry certainly encouraged the president would talk to ukraine about matters related to energy, security and economic development. now, they're not saying he was the reason for the call. but certainly being supportive there. we also heard from kevin mccarthy, the president is

probably closest ally about this issue and he is pushing back. >> nothing that he said in there is impeachable. you could even hear the democrats admit to that. if the speaker, nancy pelosi, would have waited 48 hours until she had the transcript, we would never be tearing this country apart. he never said i'll do this if you do that. what the president was talking about, let's be very clear, this is an open investigation to get to the bottom of what happened with that russia collusion. this is an open investigation that the attorney general had said was already looking into. the president already talked about before. this is exactly what we do with countries all around the world every single day, to work on investigations to get the bottom of problems. >> all right. >> nothing illegal about what just happened. >> so there's the mccarthy defense and then, of course, if you're talking about saying it was rick perry's idea, these are ways to try to make this call look like standard business. now, speaker pelosi spoke to the president and the president,

according to her, acknowledged that he had had this phone call before she called for the impeachment inquiry. the notion that she needed to wait until the transcript was out. she actually spoke to the president and made her determination has she's described it to reporters. the energy secretary angle is a new twist on this. and certainly, there have been reports that rick perry may leave his post by the end of the year. i spoke to associates of perry's who say not so fast, he really likes this job panned the department of energy is saying that at least for now, he is the energy secretary doing the job and there may be a day when that's the truth. it isn't true yet. jo? >> kelly, secretary perry is really popular with the republican base, why is it that he's being looped into this now? >> well well, i think it's for the reasons of looking for potentially arguably reasonable cover. the president went from saying it was congratulatory to now it's about corruption and not about the bidens.

if it was an idea generated by a popular republican who has been successful in the administration, there haven't been controversies around his tenure at the department of energy, maybe that would give republicans in particular a reason to say it's okay. and remember, the president is trying to hold republicans. one of the things we saw on saturday is that susan collins, republican senator of maine said it was inappropriate to say china should investigate the bidens. the president needs to hold republicans. talking about rick perry might be a way to try to do that. >> all right. nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell always with the perspective. thank you so much. >> good to see you, jo. >> good to see you, too. joining me now reporter for news day and also reporter with nbc news. jonathan, we'll start with you. you wrote about the president admitting to pushing ukraine to investigate biden and china to do the same.

what are the effects of the president openly seeking of more foreign interference in the election. >> good morning, jo. this is a tremendous moment that you had this week where he goes to the white house south lawn, talks to reporters and says in public what he had been saying in private. this is essentially the argument that he's making and kevin mccarthy, the house minority leader is making, which is that if he says it in public, it must not have been so bad. there's a public relations war going on here from the president and from his allies, to try to convince voters that if it's not that bad, they should stick with him and that's the way to kind of keep republicans on board. what the president needs right now is republican voters on board to try to keep republican senators from abandoning him, for him to be removed from office, it would take basically 20 republican senators to turn on him. then, of course in an election

campaign, he need the republican voters on board. of course, the counter to that is if he's admitting publicly, what is at the heart of the impeachment question here. that's not the quid pro quo. what's at the heart of the impeachment is whether he asked a foreign country or multiple foreign countries to investigate a political opponent. if he infused his power to do that. >> "the new york times" editorial board is writing the more -- urges to do the same thing, the more normal -- such aberrant presidential behavior will seem. how should the democrats counter that? >> so the president's strategy intentional or not as jonathan alluded to is to normalize his behavior. as it's the regular course of business. regular lies and normalize contacts, asking foreign contacts to investigate

corruption each if it involves political domestic rival of his. when it comes to republicans -- especially the house democrats, i'm sorry. they should do everything they can that it should not be the normal course of business. it is not to be normalized. the fact that he doesn't see anything wrong with it is ground for impeachment. >> we also know that we have two sources telling nbc news that the president blamed his energy secretary, rick perry, for the infamous call with the ukrainian president. jonathan, rick perry, i asked this earlier of kelly o'donnell. why bring in rick perry now? is this based in fact or is this a scapegoat strategy? >> i mean, there's no evidence from the phone call or prior to the phone call that rick perry was involved. there have been a couple of weeks for the president to have brought rick perry in. there's no suggestion that the energy concerns of the united states with regard to ukraine have anything to do with the

president's desire to get this investigation going or the withholding of funds for ukraine. so this does seem to be quite a play by the president. in addition to that, before he sought to put the blame on to rick perry, we heard him last week put the blame on rob portman, the senator from ohio, republican, who had been pushing the president to release the funds for ukraine. there were a lot of eyebrows raised over that. >> what do you make of the response from secretary perry saying he supported and encouraged the president to speak to the president of ukraine, jonathan? what does that say to you? >> i'm sure that it's true. much like it was true that senator portman wanted the president to release the funds to ukraine, just like many other senators wanted the president to release funds to ukraine. what none of them said the president should use the power of his office to get an investigation into the president's top rival for 2020.

>> all right. speaking of thrive al, let's talk about joe biden. it says stick to the facts and take on trump and third focus on issues that matter. >> i have no comment except the president should start to be president. >> everybody looked at this and everybody looked at it and said nothing is there. ask the right question. >> this is not about me or my son: this guy, like all bullies is a coward. he does not want to run against me. >> okay. so emily, biden wrote the op-ed in the "washington post." the way in which it is framed, where -- how would you characterize where he sits in this race in a possible general election fight against biden? -- against trump. >> his position in the primary, as much as he's a front-runner is weak. we see elizabeth warren ascending steadily and

overtaking him in a lot of the polls. she as well as bernie sanders in fundraising. the "washington post" editorial, the op-ed that he wrote really sort of illustrated this two-front war he's trying to fight. he really needs to address the criticism that trump has aimed so effective at him and address the spotlight is on him and what his family is doing. but also turn the attention back to the issues that a lot of moderate democrats want voters to pay attention to, whether it's health care other kitchen table issues. he's trying to do so many things at once, it's quite a multifront war for him. >> emily know and jonathan allen, it's very early. thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> thanks. secretary of state mike pompeo heading back to the u.s. soon after his overseas trip. this was an athens, greece. he was there with his wife a short time ago.

pompeo confronted with questions about the impeachment inquiry on the last leg of his trip and he vigorously defended the president's use of government resources to ask world leaders for election-related investigations. we're joined from rome with claudio. how did he make the argument that he has the right to ask ukrainian officials to investigate the 2016 election. >> reporter: it seems likes there's reverse psychology narrative from pompeo while here in europe. he tried to prove that it was not only -- it was not inappropriate to ask for the investigation. it was a proeppropriate and the of the president and the secretary of state in doing so. how did he try to justify that? every time he tried to do that, well, he raised more questions than he answered.

>> america tries to advance its interest around the world and i am confident that i feel pressure. when i talk to your foreign minister, who pressures me all the time, it's totally appropriate. right? nations do this. nations work together. they say, boy, goodness gracious, if you can help me with x, we'll help you achieve y. this is what partnerships do. it's win-win. >> reporter: the open question from that answer, for instance, is when he talks about nations advancing interests, whose interests sb was the president trump trying to advance when he requested that investigation. was it his own as the democrats say or the nation's as trump say. also when he say nations do this all-time, if you help me achieve x, i can give you y. what was the x he was trying to achieve. was he trying to figure out whether ukraine was corrupt or look into allegations of interference in the 2016 elections or trying to find

damaging information on joe biden ahead of the next elections? jo ling? >> claudio, i want to know what the perception is like in rome and cross the eu when this sort of drama unfolds? obviously, italy has its own share of political drama a as well. what is the perception of the united states in the current administration? >> reporter: well, it's in total chaos, really. in a sense, even with this visit throughout europe from secretary of state pompeo, it appeared the further away he traveled from washington, d.c., the more he got himself into trouble. if you remember, he started this trip here in italy where he answered briefly about a question on the impeachment inquiry by saying that there was nothing wrong with it. trying to discard it, downplaying the significance and he moved on to the republic of north macedonia, refusing to answer questions on the impeachment inquiry and yesterday, once he got into greece, he couldn't stop talking about.

every time he talked about it, as i mentioned earlier, he raised more questions than he answered. so what it looks like here in italy and the european union is that the president and the secretary of state really are in trouble this time. >> all right. nbc's claudio la advantage a in rome. thank you. the potential legal trouble they may face and the investigation as it unwinds. all that next. great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar? thanks, lady. taxi! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we're oscar mayer deli fresh your very first sandwich,m...

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we want to bring you more on that breaking news that we brought you at the top of the hour. we're getting the first video in from a deadly shooting in kansas city, kansas. nine people were shot inside a bar. four of them are dead. police have released very few details at this early hour. they're looking for at least one suspect who entered the bar and opened fire. but the exact number of shooters is still unknown. no one is in custody. we're going to bring you the latest as information becomes available on that. now to contenders 2020. bernie sanders is back at home. the vermont senator arriving at his house in burlington after suffering a heart attack earlier this week. the 78-year-old was hospitaled in nevada tuesday. allies of president trump are facing new legal questions right now, this morning, as the inquiry moves forward.

bill barr and trump campaign donor turned ambassador to the eu gordon sondland are among those named in the whistle-blower account. the report paints rudy giuliani as the central player. he was named 31 times throughout the nine-page complaint. joining me now is legal contributor and trial lawyer katie fang and glenn kirschner. >> glenn, who is the most vulnerable, do you think? >> i think they all have explaining to do, jo. but here really is the main concern that i have as a former career prosecutor. who might be criminally investigating what all of these men have done with the president, for the president to enable the president because the fbi should be investigating this based on even what we've only seen publicly reported.

when an fbi agent sees a potential federal crime, for instance, a bank robbery in progress, the fbi doesn't have to ask permission to investigate that federal crime. we have seen strong evidence of potential crimes by any number of men, including the president. and i think one of the most important questions for the country right now is, is bill barr letting the fbi investigate what we all see going on in plain sight, or is he stomping down on that investigation out of some sense of wanting to protect the president and those around him? we're going to have to stay tuned for that. >> katie, what do you think? do you get a sense that barr is mitt fwigating a possible investigation by the fbi? >> where there's smoke there's fire. the cia general counsel did a criminal referral based on the

referral -- it got squashed. there's a lot of unanswered question why kwe did not have any type of result or ensuing investigation as a result of that criminal referral. daye think his involvement in all of this remains murky at best right now. of course, we don't know whether or not further interviews, further depositions that are supposed to take place not only this week or the upcoming weeks might shed further light on his involvement. for example, when you get somebody like rudy giuliani who has constant diarrhea of the mouth, he may implicate people like barr more so than he was intending to have exposure for. ultimate ultimately, it was president trump who told zelensky of ukraine that, hey, you need to talk to my a.g. and my personal lawyer rudy giuliani, so trump con flats bill bar and makes him his -- >> let's look at the texts that

happened between the diplomats bill taylor and sond land who we mentioned earlier. are we saying security assistance in a meeting are conditioned on investigations. sondland says call me. we've gone over it a bunch and later says they should no longer text. what does this say to you legally? >> so, it says to me that these folks, some have criminal exposure, the ones involved in the scheme to trade something for value in exchange for ukrainian security funds. face it, congress doesn't willy-nilly appropriate funds to foreign countries just out of the goodness of their hearts. they do it because it's in the interest of the united states to do it. yet, the president holds that money hostage and when president zelensky says we're about ready to buy more javelin missiles from you and the president says i have a favor, though, it

doesn't take a crip tolgs to unravel what he's saying. he might as well have said in response to that, hey, not so fast, president zelensky, i need something from you first. the text message that that we saw more recently, i consider those to be corroborating evidence confirming and supporting evidence, just explaining what the president did in that phone call which we saw with our own eyes. >> is there criminal liability here? >> there very well could be and that's why we need the fbi to investigate. as a prosecutor, i'm never going to leap to the conclusion that there is a crime that was committed or that i can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. but i'll tell you, if i were a prosecutor, i would collect up the text messages, i would present the phone call that the president had with president zelensky, i would offer it up to a jury and i would probably argue, you know what, folks, you don't need much more than that

to hold the president accountable for the crimes he committed. >> what would be the short advice that you would give the president at this stage of where we are? >> well, we all know he doesn't take advice nor listen to the counsel of any of his lawyers. you know, jo, here's the bottom line. the whole ukrainian thing is to boiling down to two issues. number one, was there foreign interference being solicited by the president of the united states in an upcoming presidential election. that deals with the biden angle. but the second kind of issue at play here is whether or not there's this continuing uncorroborated completely debunked conspiracy theory that pompeo and giuliani and others continue to pursue as to whether or not there was actual interference in our 2016 presidential election, which is what trump and giuliani and pompeo are saying. jo, the real question is this. if we suspected that ukraine was involved in the 2016 elections, you know what, why did we give them $400 million in aid?

it doesn't add up. like glenn has said, something that doesn't smell right usually means something is going wrong. in this case, there is a crime. according to the federal election commission, we've heard it from ellen weintraub, it's illegal to solicit, accept help from a foreign national in a united states election, we have that on trump and other players. there has been a crime committed. >> katiepheng. glenn kirschner. you stay here and stay with us. we'll be back to you. thank you so much. meanwhile, is courage contagious. the author of a new book is going to talk to us about a potential second whistle-blower. that's next. tential second whis. that's next. (groans)

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joe ling kent.

here's a look at your morning headlines. a main witness from amber guyger's murder trial died after being shot multiple times in dallas. joshua broup was a neighbor of botham jean, the victim in the case. he gave emotional testimony in the trial last week. his death was two days two days after a jury sentenced guyger to

prison. a series of attacks in chinatown in new york city. police say a 24-year-old man, homeless, went on a rampage hitting his victims with a heavy metal pipe while they slept on the sidewalk. officers arrested him. the attacks were apparently random. in california, four people are hurt, including two firefighters after several explosions during an octoberfest party. three quick blasts shot flames up to the roof of the building. >> second time the power went down, the lights were flickering and we were looking at oech other like that's weird. what's going on with that? after that first one, i grabbed her, okay, time to go. >> five crews were on scene to check out an electrical fire when the explosions happened. the president blasting a new report about a potential second whistle-blower. another whistle-blower is coming

in from the deep state also with secondhand info. "the new york times" reporting saturday the second official is a member of the intelligence community and has more direct information on trump's ukraine dealings. joining me now to discuss this is tom mueller, author of crisis of conscience. whistle-blowering in an age of fraud. >> thank you, jo. >> the second person does come forward, do you think that this was propelled specifically by the first whistle-blower here? >> very definitely. many of the stories i tell in my book, an initial person stepping forward gives permission to others to say yeah, i saw that same conduct. often, we see a group of people watching the same event unfold. many of them know, this is wrong. only one is willing to take the risk. once they do that, there are two camps, one that attacked them, retaliating against them and another that joins them and says

yep, that's the right thing to do. i think that's what we're seeing today. >> you've described whistle-blowing as a painstaking experience where they stay below the radar, keeps collecting information, must have staying power and ability to remain inconspicuous. walk me through why these traits are effective. >> it means you make a difference. you fix the problem. that's what all whistle-blowers are focused on. their greatest fear is that they don't make their voices heard. staying under the radar means you're not targeted and not identified as the whistle-blower is the problem. being painstaking and methodical means you're gathering information in an investigation and prosecution. it's the kind of thing that ideally you are not -- you remain anonymous the entire time. that's what really makes you most effective in this kind of situation. sometimes, however, coming

forward, speaking before congress gives that voice an extra reverberation and power that pushes you over the edge and gets change made. >> it's clear, though, there's consequences to being a whistle-blower and the president made it very clear, he wants to find out who the first whistle-blower is. in politico you wrote, if history is any indication, the current whistle-blower might end up regretting coming forward altogether. what did you mean by that in this current context? >> in time and time again in the stories i've told in my book, you see someone do the right thing, come forward, prove beyond of a shadow of a doubt serious fraud and be ostracized almost immediately moved to an office next to a toilet between loud copiers. then, of course, they're fired.

quite often, they'll be criminally investigated by the organization. they are black balled in their chosen line of work and never work again. these are major, major consequences. someone in the agency calling out the commander in chief and accusing him of serious wrongdoing is really putting their career and lives on the line. if we're to listen to trump's references to spies and rubbing them out. >> what can we learn from the past whistle-blowers who have come forward, chelsea manning, edward snowden, daniel elseberg. >> the fundamental power is, the uplifting moment when you look at this sort of situation is that an individual with good facts and courage and real backbone can come forward and tell the world about wrongdoing and face and sometimes prevail against a multinational

corporation or a vastly powerful organization. one person, the david and goliath can succeed. what we also see is that the long-term career problems and the long-term life problems. many of the whistle-blowers i've talked with have permanent emotional scars. they couldn't live with themselves not having done it but have paid a high price. they need to think long-term, how do we make them whole in the longer arena, because they really are in harm's way and this particular person is in harm's way in a way that could turn into being physical violence. >> there's been a lot of concern about the physical security about the first whistle-blower. i think a lot about what it might mean for the second whistle-blower. this is also a white house that is complaining a lot about leaks and a very leaky white house

just by the fact the new yorker article brings up the difference between whistle-blowing and leaking. this has been a leaky white house. one thing that is mentioned is that there was an anonymous column. remember that a while ago? >> yes. >> about someone standing as part of the resistance. they were in the administration. what do you think about that? what's more effective here? whistle-blowing or leaking? how do we understand the difference? there's so much news con tastan out of the white house? >> that's a good question. the first op-ed published. that's really a self-serving announcement. someone not willing to step up and make charges, they're basically saying, we're the deep state, we're going to continue to subvert the commander in chief in his governing, which to me, that's treasonness. that's wrong. i'm glad there's an adult in the

room with trump. however, i'm not good with an unelected shadow government pulling strings in the background. that's fundamentally wrong. this is cia whistle-blower, because they didn't out the op-ed writer. but they did partially out this whistle-blower. we had a conversation about the press about what they should be doing with the whistle-blower identity. this person followed the rules all the way along. acting director maguire followed the law every step of the way and come forward with serious allegations carefully documented that nine-page disclosure is a work of art in terms of creating a roadmap for prosecutors, for investigators to follow, to really determine whether there's been wrongdoing here, who are the witness toss it, where the documents are. this is a completely different animal. they're willing to testify before congress.

this anonymous person telling us the deep state has got your back, that for me is very dangerous and a bad precedent for our democracy. this whistle-blower coming forward and saying we need to fix this, that's democracy in action. this is a patriot. >> that's the difference. tom mueller, author of the new book crisis of con sense, whistle-blowing in an age of fraud. >> thank you, jo. tonight ari melber is hosting trump and ukraine, impeachment crisis. a special live hour looking into the impeachment inquiry and where it's headed. be sure to tune in for that. british authorities want to question a u.s. diplomat's wife after a deadly hit skip incident. the u.s. won't let them. why? that's coming up next.

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wife of an american diplomat involved in a deadly car crash left the country using diplomatic immunity. harry dunn died after his motorcycle crashed into the woman's car traveling in the opposite direction. it happened late august in central england. nbc's erin mclaughlin is following the story from our london bureau. you spoke to the victim's family. what are they telling you? >> they're absolutely devastated. the suspect is a 42-year-old american woman and wife of a

u.s. diplomat. she raised the issue of diplomatic immunity. it protects diplomats and their spouses in their host countries. the suspect left the uk without a word to police. in an emotional interview, they tell me they're heartbroken. they want justice. >> she needs to come back and face the justice in the court. >> can't see how she can't come back. she's a mom. she's got to do is look and see what she's done to us as a family. we've been left with a family that's broken. his twin brother. he doesn't have his twinship

anymore. we've got no answers. we've got no -- nothing from her to say that she's remorseful. >> british police say they applied for a waiver so that diplomatic immunity would no longer apply to the suspect. u.s. officials, though, declined the waiver, jo. >> erin, what is the u.s. state department saying about this? >> state department spokesperson confirmed the woman and her family left the country, adding quote any questions regarding a waiver of immunity with regard to our diplomats and their family members overseas in a case like this receive careful attention at senior levels. the family has received a letter from u.s. ambassador woody johnson offering his condolences but they tell me it's not enough. they want the suspect brought back to the uk to face justice. >> erin mclaughlin with nbc in our london bureau. thank you so much. such a sad story.

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numbers over the past week and they boosted markets on friday after a sluggish week on wall street. the u.s. economy added 136,000 jobs during september and unemployment held steady at 3.5%. ticking down a little bit. it was the lowest level in 50 years. wages went up almost 3% year over year. so we want to take a look at the numbers a little more closely. we have sibile marcellus joining us. >> good morning. >> the number of jobs added seem like good news, it did miss expectations, but then when you dpo the math and compare the jobs numbers to last year the average number of jobs created per month this year is 161,000 and compare that to last year the average creation was 223,000. what does that really say about the state of the economy here? >> we're seeing that the u.s. economy is losing steam. when it comes to this jobs report economists were expecting 145,000 jobs to be added but

only 136,000 jobs were added. when you look at wages, wages practically didn't budge month to month from august to september. they are up 2.9% for the year, but that's the lowest level since july 2018. so we're definitely falling backwards when it comes to wage gains. that's a red flag to me because if we want the u.s. economy to continue to grow, roughly 75% of gdp is consumption driven. >> yes. >> you want consumers to have their pockets flushed with cash so that they can continue to spend and help boost the economy. now, the bright spot on the jobs report is the fact that the unemployment rate was 3.5%, as you pointed out, jo, a 50-year low and president trump was quick to point that out on friday morning in a very sarcastic tweet where he said, wow, america, let's impeach your president, 50-year low when it comes to unemployment. he is right, that's a great thing, of course, americans are happy to be employed but the low unemployment rate does mask underlying problems within the u.s. economy.

>> what does it mask exactly? what do you see? we also know that labor participation and also the number of people searching for jobs often when people withdraw from that search then you see the unemployment number go down. what was behind the ticking down this time? >> what we're seeing is a slowdown in employment and the major reason for that and we have the ceos of america's biggest companies that have pointed that out repeatedly is the president trump's economic policy. the tariffs, which are basically taxes on consumers and businesses. and with this tariff policy that continues to escalate, let's remember there are more tariffs coming in on october 15th and on december 15th. so in that kind of an environment it's difficult for businesses to invest in hiring, to pay people a lot more because they're trying to figure out where these tariffs are going to land when it comes to their margins and profits at the end of this year and moving forward in ex year and five, ten years out. >> i want to take a look at retail because that is a huge story, speaking of american spending. you had retail jobs basically

hemorrhage and you have numbers that are really bad. clothing scores jobs tanked 13,800, department scores lost jobs. >> we are in a retail recession, we're seeing stores close at a record pace and seeing also when it comes to sales online we're seeing certain companies doing really well like amazon or walmart, they're doing great in e-commerce, but brick and mortar stores, stores at malls, actually having to close. they are having trouble shouldering the cost of these tariffs and moving on and boosting their profits. in terms of the jobs report the retail sector lost 11,400 jobs, also manufacturing has been hit hard, they lost 2,000 factory jobs. >> last question for you, what will the fed do next, do you think? >> so that is what wall street is constantly thinking about, worried about, concerned about. they are always looking at what are the chances that the fed

will cut interest rates. >> what are the chances? >> exactly. so the chances are that the fed will likely cut rates later this month. they've cut rates twice since the financial crisis, wall street expects it and that's part of the reason why we saw the markets were in the green towards the end of this week with this jobs report because they are hoping that the fed cut interest rates and have it as an insurance against a recession. >> thank you so much. >> thanks, jo. the president and the polls, the public's perception of the impeachment inquiry coming up next. erception of the impeachment inquiry coming up next as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ that's ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar.

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