every day. i'm going to see you right back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern with stephanie ruhle. tune in msnbc.com/now. and you can always find me on social media, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat and linkedin. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace begins right now. ♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. where the president today finds himself cornered by twin political calamities of his own making with the impeachment inquiry yielding the kind of evidence that turns the president's defenders into baghdad bobs. the president opened up a new front today throwing a grenade into his senate republican firewall by abandoning u.s. allies in syria, a move sure to strengthen adversaries like iran, russia and assad in syria. two officials tell me today that donald trump is effectively cracking his own firewall by

jeopardizing the support of gop senators who may decide his fate in the senate trial if the house impeaches him for soliciting foreign assistance with the 2020 election. these officials said that the link between trump's decision to leave american allies to die in northern syria and trump's political fate, the u.s. senate, is likely lost on trump at this point but not on weary gop senators who will serve as jurors in any impeachment trial and are now armed with more evidence that donald trump may be a threat to u.s. national security aims. and donald trump's impeachment in the house becomes more likely with the emergence of a second whistle-blower who has come forward to corroborate the first whistle-blower's account of flagrant abuse of power and a clear attempt to get the ukrainian president to investigate the biden family. "new york times" reports on the new whistle-blower, quote, an intelligence official with first-hand knowledge has provided information related to president trump's dealings with ukraine and is now protective from retaliation as a

whistle-blower. lawyers representing the official said confirming that a second individual has come forward. this as two more state department officials who were personally at the center of the scandal are set to testify on capitol hill this week. tomorrow gordon sondland, the u.s. envoy to the e.u. who is at the center of the effort to strongarm ukraine into doing donald trump's political bidding. and on friday former us ambassador to ukraine marie yoefb onovich was ousted for standing in the way of the president's ukraine operation. and as that impeachment inquiry gains support among the general public, donald trump is lashing out on twitter calling for the impeachment on mitt romney who can't be impeached at all and accusing nancy pelosi of high crimes and misdemeanors and even treason, adding to his angst, there were fewer people defending him on the sunday shows from inside his own camp, that would be zero, than there were on the sunday shows after the release of the access

hollywood tape when campaign adviser rudy giuliani appeared on all of them. and even the congressional republicans left to prop-up trump's gaslighting to defend him. >> you really think he was serious about thinking that china is going to investigate the biden family? >> i'm asking if you think it's appropriate for the president to ask china to investigate. >> i think he's saying what's on the minds of so many americans. >> that's not what i'm asking. why can't you answer yes or no, do you think it's appropriate? >> because i don't think that's what he did. >> we've been going ten minutes. you still can't say whether it's right or wrong. >> well, i doubt if the china comment was serious to tell you the truth. >> senator johnson, please. can we please answer the question that i asked you instead of trying to make donald trump feel better here that you're not criticizing -- >> i'm not -- >> i'm just trying to ask you a simple question. >> of your very biased opening. >> what made you wince? i'm asking a simple question about you clearly were upset

that somehow there was an implication that military aid was being frozen because the president wanted an investigation. why did you wince? >> because i didn't want those connected. and i was supporting aid as is senator murphy as is everybody that went to that initial inauguration. but here's the salient point of why i came forward when i asked the president about that, he completely denied it. >> that sad, sad state of affairs is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. phil rucker, white house bureau chief for "the washington post." nbc news correspondent heidi przybyla. sam stein. and former rnc chairman michael steele. plus former assistant director for counter intelligence frank figliuzzi's here. i got to start with you, michael steele. i mean, what was that? >> that was what confusion, chaos, and trying to cover the president's backside with no

talking points or no appropriate talking points or talking points that change every three minutes because the president has just tweeted something out that changes those talking points look like. when you're defending the indefensible, when you're asked a direct question, which is a very clear yes or no in the case of senator johnson, you, sir, made it clear in your interview with the "wall street journal" that you winced. so i'm asking you now why you winced when you heard what the president did with ukraine. and you cannot tell me now why you winced because he knows that if he told the truth about it, it would expose him with trump. and that's the last thing he wants. it still matters to all of the folks you saw on that screen that their relationship with trump is more valuable to them than the constitution, than the american people, than our relationships with our foreign partners, to what the president's doing now. so i'm hearing all of the republicans on the hill upset about the president's decision.

lindsay graham is having a hissy fit about it. well, okay. so we have selective outrage here? i mean because the principles are the same across the board, i thought you either are down and agree with how we relate with our foreign adversaries and our partners or you're not. same is true here domestically. i just look at it. and the american people see this for what it is, nicole. >> i heard from a lot of republicans today who said, oh, look at my tweet, basically give me credit for attacking him on syria. and i basically said [ bleep ] that's bull [ bleep ]. you want credit today? that guy the one that never wears a jacket tried to impeach rod rosenstein for simply running the justice department. that guy can't tell the truth about whether or not seeking collusion from china to aid donald trump's re-election is right or wrong? >> so they pass it on of as a joke. well, you didn't think he was serious, sam?

how could you think he was serious? so now he's funny. we're supposed to be able to discern as are all of our other friends and partners around the globe when the president is telling us a joke and when he's not. >> and let me just say on the joke thing. like, can't land a joke, trump's not funny. >> no. >> but they seem to find humor at least in the ukrainian situation. >> so these two former national security officials telling me that inadvertently he may be swinging a wrecking ball and it may not open the dam on his firewall. but it's not the right day to erk his senate republican firewall. >> all this comes down to one thing that you alluded to which is there is no communication right now between trump, white house, and capitol hill. >> who was you say? >> you would try to get on some sort of collective page in terms of talking points at the very least or in the case of what's happening in northern syria, as far as i can tell, and maybe i'm wrong on this, it seems like everyone was blindsided including members of the foreign

policy establishment. which is a horrific way to actually conduct foreign policy but also effectively a political one. it's going to be tiresome to a lot of republicans that he's doing this. and of course you see the true believers are the only ones who will go on tv and try to make something out of this, try to make lemonade out of these lemons. but what's also interesting to me is this. when you have a collective mass of republicans coming out and criticizing something he does like today, he can't hit back. when you have individual republicans coming out like mitt romney does when he says china, get after joe biden for me, then he can attack. and so there is power and strength in numbers. i wonder if republicans will take a lesson from today and realize if we do this collectively, the backlash might not be as bad. >> you know, you've got a great piece of reporting with your colleague bob costa out on a limb. they're out on a limb of their own choosing swinging from a tree that was never see a tree at all but a house of cards. but take me through your report

on the state of donald trump. but this certainly all connected for these folks. >> so this torrent of impeachment revelations that have come forward the last couple of weeks have effectively paralyzed the republican party because you have srntds and we really focused on the senators by the way because these would be the jurors in an impeachment trial. they are afraid to say anything mostly. some of these will give these defenses of the president that don't totally hold up like you saw with senator johnson. mitt romney is kind of alone in condemning the president's behavior. most of them run away from the questions. they are being advised by their strategist to be silent, to buy time, to not get ahead of event because there are new facts that keep coming out every day here. and to sam's point, i was talking to a former top administration official who said, look, they are all afraid to be the zebra that stray as way from the pack and gets gobbled up by the lion. but these senators know that if they hold hands and jump together, they can get to that majority and trump will be gone

the next day. and they're thinking about that, that doesn't mean they're going to do it, but they're aware of that dynamic. >> they are watching internal polling. let's be frank about what is happening here. and specifically what i'm told i talked with a top republican operative over the weekend and i said what is going on. and he said it's not going to happen until you start to see the shift in his approval and specifically drilling down on the intensity of either how much they approve of trump or how much people disapprove of trump. when you see those numbers start to actually cross over, we are now there on impeachment over 50%. but in terms of the approval ratings as well. and to your point on the dam breaking on the issue of syria, i spoke also with a number of senate foreign relations committee staffs this morning. this does seem to be something where they are really linking arms. you are seeing, you know, the hawks as well as the moderates across the board, everyone from liz cheney and lindsay graham to

susan collins join arms in outrage here. i think he's going to have to even potentially walk it back. >> one thing i want -- go ahead. >> with the opinion stuff, i agree 100%. but what we've seen over the past two weeks is something different than that, which is democrats were sort of torn on impeachment for a while. in large part because their leaders were also hesitant to do it. as soon as those officials jumped on board for impeachment, you saw public opinion fall. where you see more republican comes out for it. maybe public opinion does switch a little bit. >> and, frank figliuzzi, one thing that is different just to pick up on sam's point is that with the russia investigation, the mueller probe was carried out to mueller's credit behind closed doors. it was kept secret. >> it was a state secret kept that way at the direction of robert mueller. whistle-blowers in the public and i know this from having to defend policies that were unpopular with the public that were revealed by whistle-blowers, whistle-blowers have almost universal credibility with the public

because they have nothing to gain and everything to lose. you don't have a second whistle-blower coming forward over the weekend with first-hand knowledge corroborating the account of the first whistle-blower and you have donald trump who has confessed to all of the conduct in question in a transcript that he released and in his own utterances on the white house property. >> yeah. if indeed reports are accurate, this second whistle-blower is going to take the legs out from the argument that this is all hearsay, the whistle-blower was not in the room, it's second-hand. we have somebody who first-hand has heard or participated in the call or the cover-up of the call. trump is going to feel increasingly cornered. and i have to tell you, nicole, we are seeing signs of that cornered mentality here. and it's getting us into a perilously dangerous situation on the global scene. that's the turkish incursion into syria and trump's acquiescence to this. look at the language for the

behavioral scientists at home, look at the language of the trump tweet in defense of his posture with turkey and syria. i have great and unmatched wisdom, great and unmatched wisdom? the only other place you'll see language similar to that is biblical. it's in scripture. it's references to the wisdom of soloman and it's references to the wisdom of god in scripture. he is increasingly showing signs not just of narcissism but now of a messianic complex, a messiah-like wisdom and knowledge. i'm right, everyone else is wrong. even those who are experts on turkish, kurdish, and syrian matters. >> i want to ask you about the conduct in question, the conduct that if he's impeached will be what gets him there and just out of the mainstream it is. there was some great reporting in the "new york times" by peter baker who wrote this. a survey of ten former white house chiefs of staff found that

none, not one recalled any circumstance under which the white house had solicited or accepted political help from other countries. and all said that they would have considered the very idea out of bounds. there is this bizarre way he talks about himself that makes it clear he views himself as above the law, maybe even above humankind. i don't know much about biblical references. but the conduct is also -- and i think this is why the polls are shifting so dramatically. the conduct is so lawless. nobody thinks that you can call a foreign country and say help me bury my political opponent. it also looks weak among his base. i would think this is just a loser at every level. >> it does shock the conscience. and we are beginning to see some cracks in the armor of the republican party. look at senator portman from ohio coming out and saying it may not be impeachable but it's outright wrong.

>> and trump had called portman brilliant and outstanding. so we are seeing a crack there. but the public isn't going to go to this idea of reaching out to foreigners and getting them to help with a personal favor for an election. the great concern is that this sets us up for a terrible situation in november where people scratch their heads and doubt the outcome of the election because of the level of foreign involvement. and even if they don't do it, we all question whether they did and whether we can trust the outcome of the vote. >> you know, michael steele, this is where i'm actually surprised and disappointed in people like senator. but why isn't the same coalition that today is rebuking on twitter that the syria moves over which secretary mattis resigned, why aren't they responding with the same outcry and disgust over soliciting foreign interference in the 2020 election?

>> well, because the latter is more political, the former is not. i mean, the former is the foreign policy space. they know more about that, number one. number two, they believe the american public does not, certainly the core base doesn't track that kind of information and news to the same degree. it's not like they're uninterested but it's not to the same degree where they're passionately pushing that in polling and things like that where it shows up, you know, how you deal with syria is important. it's not the same as what you do with the wall. i think there's that dynamic of it. but i think sam put his finger on something that we kind of glossed over. i think it's kind of important to sort of step back and assess here, and frank would probably be sensitive to this point too. who is the puppateer here. what motivated the president to move? because i think the reporting shows that a lot of folks were shocked on capitol hill and in the foreign policy sphere with

this decision which means he didn't talk to anyone, he didn't tell anyone. who informed him? so that great and unmatched wisdom was shaped and formed by someone outside of our government. >> an american adversary? frank, i'm going to give you the last word on that point. >> yeah, no. that's right on point. so we've reached the point here where someone can have a conversation with our president. he doesn't trust anyone around him. he makes the call all by himself and he makes the wrong call. and if this keeps happening we are going to find troops involved. we are going to find missiles involved. he is going to make a horrible call all by himself. >> frank figliuzzi, you scared me but i'm glad that we had your insights. thank you for spending some time with us. after the break as we've been talking about how donald trump is stress-testing his gop firewall in the u.s. senate by abandoning some of america's staunchest allies. is it a straw breaking the camel's back moment for the gop? and where in the world is

attorney general william barr? hunting for conspiracies, that's where. new reporting on that front. we'll bring it to you. and as the president's allies tie themselves in knots trying to defend trump's collusion in plain sight, we will show you one senator who says the fbi and the cia are not to be trusted. all those stories coming up. min. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common,

and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira.

some things are too important to do yourself. ♪ get customized security with 24/7 monitoring from xfinity home. awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today.

in a move deemed calamous from a policy perspective and reckless from a political perspective for donald trump, the white house today moving u.s. troops from syria's northern borders. that effect will be to abandon our best and closest ally in the

region the kurds and to allow for a turkish military operation, undoubtedly strengthening the hands of the american adversaries, assad. turkey considers the kurdish forces to be a terrorist insurgency. but the kurdish fighters which are part of the syrian democratic forces or sdf have been the united states most reliable partner in fighting the islamic state in a strategic corner of northern syria. here's a former national security official put the president's decision to cut off the kurds telling me, quote, you don't come back from this. america doesn't come back from this. once the images of slaughtered kurds and their families are broadcast around the world, especially in the middle east, america can't come back from that. our word is meaningless. this official making clear that this is the moment for republicans who object to this policy to speak out. the crisis threatens trump's

political fate as well. one of his top defenders in the senate blasted the president's dereliction of duties and called out one of the president's lies. >> isis is not defeated, my friend. the biggest lie being told by the administration, that isis is defeated. the caliphate destroyed, but there are thousands of fighters -- >> does this -- >> -- this impulsive decision by the president has undone all the gains we have made, thrown the region into further chaos, iran is licking their chops. if i'm an isis fighter, i've got a second lease on life. so to those who think isis has been defeated you will soon see. this to me is just unnerving to its core. >> lindsay graham wasn't alone. five other republican senators have spoken out calling the decision, quote, a grave mistake and saying it poses a significant threat. senators mitt romney and chris

mu murphy writing in a statement, quote, barring a reversal of this decision the administration must come before the senate foreign relations committee and explain to the american people how betraying an ally and seating influence to terrorists and adversaries is not disastrous. former special presidential envoy for the global coalition to defeat isis who served in the obama, bush, and trump administrations. your thoughts, your reaction. i've seen some of it on twitter, but take us through it. >>. >> i was pretty close to this policy under president obama and president trump. i pent is a lot of time on the ground in syria. and we built this campaign to answer for the concern of the country about these forever wars. we built this in a way that is very small, very light it. >> relies on few special forces. i think we have about a thousand u.s. military personnel. so when president trump in one

fell swoop after talking to a foreign leader basically not only says, hey, we're going to leave, but we're going to allow turkey to come in and fight you and we can't do anything about it. he clearly did not stand up to president ergodan and undoes all the progress that has been made over the last four years. president trump also says if isis comes back, we can go back and blast. that is what he said on twitter today. that is such an irresponsible statement. who is going to go back? we took raca which was the headquarters of isis where threats were emanating against us. isis was trying to plan a 9/11 attack out of raqa. who suffered thousands of casualties and we didn't lose a single american life. so if we ever had to go back and do this again, is president trump saying it should be americans in the streets? and who is going to sign up with us to do the fighting? so it's very serious. i think the reaction from congress, senator graham follows

these issues pretty closely. i think what he said is quite apt. >> brett, you resigned shortly after former defense secretary mattis resigned. and this debate and this swerve in policy from donald trump for precipitous withdrawal from syria was one of the factors, as i understood it. does mattis have a responsibility to maybe try to redirect the president on this by speaking out either publicly or privately? >> nicole, i can't speak for secretary mattis. >> would it be helpful? >> well, i think trump's hearing from everybody here. i mean there's a kark offony of voices. cacophony. what was happening and i saw this up close and everybody's seeing it now again is this total policy incoherence and it's not just syria. it is abros the board. we have these maximum foreign policy objectives whether it's iran or syria or venezuela where resources that are not up to the job of trying to accomplish what

the president says he wants to accomplish. so in syria the administration is actually increased the objectives that we are going to stay in syria until iran leaves. we are going to stay in syria until the civil war is over. but the president then cuts all the resources and after a call from a foreign leader completely reverses course. so it's total incoherence. and the administration's been lucky that there has not been an externally directed crisis, national security crisis. but we could very well face an attack from isis, from al qaeda. we could face an incident in the straits of hormuz with iran any time. we could face an incident in the south china sea with china any time. there is not a coherent national security decision-making process in place. that is very, very troubling. i mean, the president made this decision again with a single phone call to a foreign leader, president ergodan of turkey without any consultation with his military advisers, with the

secretary of defense, the secretary of state. so we've seen this before. but it is very, very troubling. and again we have american personnel on the ground in syria at this hour advancing a mission that president trump has authorized. and in one fell swoop he completely reverses it and betrays the ally on the ground that allows our personnel to be there to live safely and to make sure that isis cannot resurge. >> i want to just press you on two things you've just said. and then i want to let the rest of the table get in on this. it seems like what you're describing is similar to what a former national security official who spent time in the oval office with republican and democratic presidents, as you did. do you believe that america can come back from this, what you just described is basically america betraying its allies, going back on its word. do you think america can come back from this or do you think that this creates a vacuum filled by american adversaries like iran? >> it increases the risk and it

limits our options going forward. the value, nicole, of an american hand shake, the value of a hand shake from the united states of america, whether it's from the president or from diplomats who are all over the world trying to advance u.s. national security interests, is it depreciating by the week. nobody can believe anything we say. so if we had to go back and blast isis. >> as president trump has said, who is going to sign up with us. we have a coalition of almost 80 countries that was built under president obama, carried forward under president trump. this major decision was taken without any consultation and coalition capitals. >> i want to follow up on that because it seems like what you're saying i'm trying to read between the lines. you speak carefully and i'm sure that's why you had such a long and successful career in foreign policy and diplomacy. but are there questions in your mind about this phone call? i mean, obviously donald trump's phone calls with foreign leaders are at the heart of his impeachment inquiry in the

house. do you have questions about who staffed that call, who was on that call and what was said on that call? >> well, sure it's weird. he totally reversed what was a very well established policy from the national security team without any consultation. so i can't really speak beyond that. it's strange. >> should the white house release the transcript from that call with the turks to understand what exactly was said? >> you know, not -- >> why not? trump did it in a day last week. >> i was on calls with president ergodan and president bush in the oval office. and president ergodan will talk for a half an hour. and what president don't in those conversations is say, got it, i've taken your points. let me talk, consult with my team, let me get back to you. but here president trump who says he's a tough guy apparently just rolled over and capitulated and then they put out this statement late sunday night that was really not reviewed by the national security team and caught everybody totally by surprise. so it's strange. >> it sounds more than strange.

it sounds like he listened. donald trump can be a fusilad himself on phone calls. but do you think it's worth understanding and investigating and sharing a transcript with what went on, on that call since after he hung up policy was made that may leave america's closest allies in the regions lives on the line? >> i think congress, the foreign affairs committee have every right to call advisers up and figure out exactly what happened here. i am careful, having served three presidents about releasing transcripts between heads of state. that is quite an extreme thing. so i doubt we'll see this transcript. but it is good to know, it'd be good to know exactly what happened here. how did this happen? was the president totally unprepared for this call? how did he make these commitments? and then how did the white house put out a policy statement late last night without any deliberation or consultation? these are matters of war and peace, life or death. the most consequential decisions a president can make. they're being made on a whim. >> robert, thank you for

spending some time with us. our table's going to weigh in on all this and whether or not it'll be a tipping point for the republicans, when we come back. ♪ new pasta and grill combos starting at $9.99. only at applebee's.

till he signed up for unitedhealthcare medicare advantage. (bold music) now, it's like he has his own health entourage. he gets medicare's largest healthcare network, a free gym membership, vision, dental and more. there's so much to take advantage of. can't wait till i'm 65. a few more chairs, please. unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans, including the only plans with the aarp name. free dental care and eye exams, and free designer eyewear. go ahead, take advantage. pain happens. saturdays happen. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol.

when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong.

we're back. we watched brett mcgushing, former u.s. envoy to defeating isis and now we're watching nbc video from troops withdrawing from that northern border of syria to make room for the turkish military operations. >> what struck me about your interview were two things. one is he basically confirmed that he feels what happened on that call was corrupt, at least the process was corrupt. secondly, there was no indication whatsoever that trump has consulted anybody. and we even within his own administration, now if you were a rational human being making foreign policy, what would you do before doing something this? you would talk to experts about

this. so if i were president, i'm not going to be president, i would call someone like brett mcgurk. but he was obviously not phoned in advance of this stuff. that just stood out to me as how hastily this thing came together. then finally the thing i would have asked him is have you heard from anyone on the hill? they are clearly enraged at what's going on, and they have a design to sort of reelback this whether it's through some formal statement. has he heard from anyone on the hill? i kind of want to know if they are backchannelling to him to get a sense of what they can do to repair this policy change. >> what you are seeing here is now the all-too predictable consequence of a congress that has been complicit in allowing this president to run over its constitutional role of plays checks and balances. so to sam's point, there are some remedies for congress at this point, but this is like a behavior that has escalated over time. it was after those translator notes were seized during the

trump/putin meeting that pompeo initially refused to come to congress and testify. we still don't know what happened in this meeting. and here we are and while congress does have some remedies, they are limited to let's have a hearing and call people up to find out how this decision was made. let's pass a resolution condemning what the president is doing. but the truth is that the president as commander in chief has the constitutional ability to withdraw troops. full stop. >> phil rucker, i heard from republicans who wanted credit for objecting to his policy. but as heidi is saying, there are lambs that walk to their own slaughter here. >> and their objection means nothing if the president has already made a decision. and the troops are already withdrawing and this is a consequence not only of what heidi just pointed out regarding congress but of the administration itself losing the guardrails, losing the mattiss, the john kellys, even the john

boltons. people in the administration who felt willing and empowered to challenge the president. the policy and could heerns has been there from day one. what's different now is that those guardrails are gone and he has around him enablers who are there to help enact his agenda, his wishes, his impulses. and what you have right now is the president feeling cornered and trapped with this impeachment stuff. he sees this as fulfilling a campaign promise. >> there are some republicans including some foreign policy people who actually agree with the policy. >> who else? >> rand paul and some other random members of congress. the problem is not that the policy might be bad. it's just that the policy is not well thought through. to not have your cabinet in on your calls is a problem. >> incompetent and corrupt policy utterances that spill out on twitter. this one as mcgurk said to me today is that lives will be lost. this is a former national security official who worked for

democratic and republican presidents who said to me today the united states sanctioning turkish military action against american-backed kurdish forces is the ultimate betrayal against allies who have paid with their lives to protect american interests. the kurds have fought alongside us, against i sayist terrorists with our support and encouragement. this is a dark day where the credibility of the united states will be jeopardized in the middle east. in moscow and tehran there will be unconstrained joy as they watch the united states destroy what it means to be an ally through this singular act of betrayal. shame. >> i am glad you keyed in on that because what i keyed in on from the interview was come mcgurk referred to the american handshake. that when our ambassadors, our diplomats, cabinet officials, the secretaries certainly the president extend their hand, that that meant something and it means something to a lot of people. with this administration what

you're seeing now and what you're hearing in the diplomatic community quite a lot is that doesn't mean as much as it used to, and it's probably meaning even less. the question here as we look at this unfolding on the domestic side with ukraine and the way the president has handled that foreign policy. you now look diplomatically and more globally about what's going on with syria and turkey. and if there is a conflict, if there is a problem, if this thing begins to blow up, whose hand is going to extend to us to help us? and when we in this president goes to the u.n. or goes to a foreign capital and say, hey, can you help a brother out? we're like it's not worth it. it's not worth it because there is no upside in this relationship. so that's where the president has placed us based on the points that have been made. >> all right.

after the break william barr is playing detective trying to sess out meddling in the investigation by meddling. we will bring you the latest on the attorney general's globetrotting next. reme. without it, i cannot write my name. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right.

so chantix can help it's you quit slow turkey. cold turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions.

decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. to help you grow and protect your wealth. we're oscar mayer deli fresh your very first sandwich,m... your mammoth masterpiece. and...whatever this was. because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh.

where's william barr, you wonder? well, donald trump's attorney general william barr is circling the globe. "new york times" reports, quote, mr. barr has portrayed the review as intent to ferret out abuse. but it is also a politically charged effort that takes aim that the conclusions drawn by the american law enforcement and intelligence communities after years of painstaking report. because it is stretching overseas the review could fray diplomatic relations with close

allies. according to reporting by the "wall street journal," it already is. mr. barr has stirred up domestic politics in some of the countries he has tapped for assistance. and just who are those countries he is stirring up? well, no surprise. they're some of our strongest allies. countries like italy, australia, and the u.k. joining our conversation former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, i'm sure that asking you what else the attorney general could be doing -- is that your dog? [ laughter ] we heard a dog bark. >> that's my sweet german shepherd puppy. >> i love it. i feel him. but, you know, look, beto o'rourke cautioned all of us against asking the questions we know the answer to. so i'm not going to ask you why he's doing this. but i'm going to ask you what could go wrong. >> what couldn't go wrong here?

this is such an unprecedented investment of time and resources for an attorney general to engage in. you know, the attorney general has an enormously full plate across a number of different areas. and here we have an attorney general who's not just meeting, not just being briefed on progress in an investigation but instead he's jetting all around the world spending that time to focus on an investigation that's really only notable because it's a vehicle for the president to seek political revenge on his enemies. and there are ways that doj handles international investigations. there's an entire office in the criminal division that helps u.s. attorneys and people in main justice who need assistance from foreign countries. there is a process known as the mlap process for accessing some of this information. apparently barr has bypassed all of that. and for what? because when you think about it, his justice department still has

pending indictments against russians, both individuals and companies, who we know who both doj and the intelligence community concluded are the people responsible for the hack. so whatever barr finds, it won't change that conclusion that's implemented in those indictments. it really looks like a wild goose chase that could only sour relationships both political and law enforcement relationships with some of our closest allies. >> and phil rucker, you and your colleagues basically report on exactly that. that the reaction from our allies is basically what's going on here. >> yeah. and that's the problem for the administration. but we should also think about the impact it has on our own federal law enforcement community because you have here the attorney general traveling around the world to dig up dirt to find incriminating information to show that there was corruption inside the very agency that he leads, the department of justice. >> unbelievable. >> and it completely undermines the work that the fbi and the

other intelligence agencies in our country do. but it speaks to the president's singular focus on that 2016 campaign. it gnaws at him that there is this asterisk next to his electoral victory which is that russia interfered in this election to help him win. >> joyce, i am going to give you the last word and then i'm going to put you on the spot. people like yourself and chuck rosenberg maintain that the fact that the president has wage aid war on law enforcement, there are professionals that are holding up those institutions. but if you look at the president's policy on syria where national security figures feel like this changes america's hand shake, do you think this is changing the value and changing the nature of american intelligence and law enforcement agencies? >> you know, at least as far as justice goes, i don't. much of the work that we see that looks so objectionable that's so political is being handled by political employees,

by political appointees who have come into doj with this administration. i still talk with a lot of the career folks in the department. they have their heads down. they are doing their job. if anything what this will do is it will reinforce how important it is that doj remain strictly apolitical. but the problem here is that in the short term the agency will take some hits. we have the president and people around him not complying with subpoenas. so why should the average american who receives one comply? and -- >> calle >> can i follow up, though, joyce? >> sure. >> our colleagues reported that the cia have sort of forwarded a criminal referral to the justice department. you don't think that barr's political enthusiasm, his sort of way out in front aggressive posture of defending donald trump has any influence anywhere in the building when they consider a criminal referral? >> so, we are all, you know, grownups and we know that people

are influenced by what their boss thinks. but i can't tell you how many times working at doj i saw line prosecutors reject what they thought was the conclusion that their boss was headed have don myself. and also been on the receiving end of it. because the line people are charged with looking at just the facts and the law. we don't know what's going on inside of doj and it certainly is a tough time, there's a lot of reason for concern. i think we'll have to watch this play out and see where it ends up. >> all right. as rachel maddow says, we'll watch the space. joyce, thank you for doing that for us and hello to your dog. coming up, spinning as fast as they can, inside the republicans' mad dash to keep up with trump as senate of homeland security say it's the fbi and the cia who are not to be trusted. that's next. t to be trusted. that's next. humira patients, you inspire us.

the way you triumph over adversity. and live your lives. that's why we redesigned humira. we wanted to make the experience better for you. now there's less pain immediately following injection. we've reduced the size of the needle and removed the citrate buffers. and it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. humira citrate-free is here. a little change can make a big difference. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,

and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. here's to you.

thand find inspiration who win new places.ct... leading them to discover: we're woven together by the moments we share. everything you need, all in one place. expedia. (honk!) i hear you sister. that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan

that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time to unwind. a location to de-stress. an activity to enjoy. or the name of someone to talk to. to create a plan that works for you, visit cigna.com/mystressplan. cigna. together, all the way. >> chuck, i just want the truth. the american people want the truth. >> you don't trust the fbi, the cia? >> no, i do not. >> you don't trust these agencies? >> not after james comey. >> you believe the cia, fbi, these government agencies? >> i don't trust any of these guys in the obama administration. >> you don't trust them now? do you trust them now? >> no. i didn't trust them back then. something pretty fishy happened during the 2016 campaign and in the transition, the early part of the trump presidency, and we still don't know. robert mueller -- >> we do know the answers. >> never looked into any of that and he should have.

>> you're choosing to -- >> hopefully william barr will. >> you're making a choice not to believe the investigations that have taken place. >> no. i'm trying to get to the truth. >> that was senator ryan johnson, sitting chairman of the homeland security committee casting doubt on the integrity of the entire fbi, the entire cia. this is scary stuff. i mean, it's funny because it's so stupid. it's like indiscernible now from sean hannity's opening monologue. we used to have people like that in the conservative coalition, and we would mock them. they were called the black helicopter crowd. the tin foil hat now, they now -- >> they run stuff. >> they run stuff. really scary. >> the question for me, when did that switch flip for ron johnson? did you always feel that way or was it just in the latter half of the obama administration or was it because these people were in the obama administration?

bringing that level to these agencies is detrimental to the country. >> ron johnson knew about this call. >> very much. >> in his capacity that committee said and did nothing about t he is in a unique position. >> if the fbi knocks on someone's door, should they answer it? words have consequences. >> yeah. >> when you're a united states senator saying i don't believe the fbi, words have consequences. >> this some deep conspiratorial stuff that a sitting u.s. senator and senior one at that, is pushing. it raises a host of editorial questions, too, right? you book the guy because he is a senator of power. he is pushing this information that's highly damaging and consequential. i thought chuck did a hell of a job there, pushing back. there are larger editorial questions who can you turn to for actual legitimate conservative factual viewpoints right now? there are not that many out there. >> there certainly are not.

we'll take a break and be right back. take a break and be right back maria ramirez?

hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams.

my thanks to phil rubbinger, heidi pryzbylla, michael steele and all of you watching. my friend, katy tur is in for chuck todd. "mtp daily" starts now. some of president trump's staunchest allies struggle to defend him. meanwhile nearly no one in the president's party is defending his latest move in syria. republicans are nearing an all-out open revolt over it. and later, fire in paradise. the "meet the press" film festival examines the climate crisis with firsthand accounts of the