"today." right now, "andrea mitchell reports." >> thank you, craig. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," caught in the web. two of rudy giuliani's business associates in his investigation of the bidens have been arrested at dulles airport as they were trying to leave the country after refusing requests to testify this week to the house impeachment inquiry. >> this pair of businessmen born in the former soviet union were clients of rudy giuliani and they were helping giuliani meet people in ukraine who he was later lobbying to do the things that president trump wanted including investigate the bidens and investigate what they think happened with ukraine in the 2016 election. assaulting our allies. turkey's military expanding its air and ground attacks against kurdish allies in syria as european and israeli leaders warn this could fuel the resurgence of isis. the president's most loyal republicans are also alarmed at what they're hearing from the front lines.

>> reporter: here in northern syria, there is one sentiment that is being expressed, that the people have been betrayed by the united states, as turkish forces and turkish-backed militias are continuing their advance, taking village after village. >> coming up, reaction from a military veteran and top democratic senator jack reed, former iraq war commander and envoy to defeat isis, retired general john allen, and former obama national security adviser sewers susan rice. and an nbc news exclusive, bernie sanders answering questions about his heart attack to nbc's harry smith. >> there was an absolute of transparency. >> i think there's a media thing. i think to try to understand what in fact was going on, i think we did it appropriately and quickly as we could. so no apologies.

and a busy day in washington. good day, i'm andrea mitchell with breaking news about the ratifies of two rudy giuliani associates in ukraine ventures as they were trying to leave the country at dulles airport, having refused to answer questions to house investigators. lev parnas and igor fruman, big donors to pro-trump political action committees, both expected to appear in a federal court in alexandria, virginia, at 2:00 eastern. they're charged with making illegal straw donations to a trump super pac. the two helped giuliani lobby ukrainian officials to investigate the bidens at the same time as they were pursuing a profitable deal with a ukraine state-owned gas company. they told several people the president would replace the u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie

yovanovitch, months before she was ousted. she is still in the foreign service. nbc justice correspondent pete williams joins me now. this indictment a big surprise today. there are court appearances coming up shortly. what more do we know? >> reporter: they were arrested, as you say, at dulles airport, on their way to take a flight outside the united states. federal officials say that's why the arrests were made last night. this investigation has been going on since three of the february. attorney general william barr has been briefed on it and is supportive of the investigation. in addition to the ones you noted, andrea, they gave a total of $373,700 illegally. the two pacs that you mentioned. the government also says $2,700 to former texas republican congressman pete sessions, seeking his help in getting the ambassador recalled.

$11,000 to another fundraising committee. a total of $20,000 to two candidates in nevada to state political candidates in their efforts with two other people who were also charged today to try to set up a business to sell marijuana in states where it's legal to sell and consume. so those are the charges. they'll appear on them in federal court today in alexandria. that's only because they were arrested in the eastern district of virginia. and then this case will be transferred up to new york, in manhattan, where the charges were actually filed. >> lev parnas has been seen in washington with rouudy giulianit the trump hotel which is kind of a hangout of trump supporters. he was involved in this energy deal or attempting to get an energy deal and also of course in the investigation of the bidens. this intersects a number of, you know, issues. the allegation, though, is campaign finance violation. >> reporter: correct.

now, both were to be deposed by the house committee investigating impeachment, but obviously they're not going to be appearing to that. the depositions were scheduled for today and tomorrow. but obviously they're going to be otherwise occupied. it's not clear to us whether they'll be held, i would guess they'll be -- they might seek to be released on bail. the question is whether they'll have to surrender their passports, whether the government would claim they'll flee the country. but these are not violent crimes where normally you would see somebody denied bail. the house could still try to get their depositions. the allegation and indictment in addition to the campaign finance violation which is what this is all about is that they were trying to get help from the ukrainian government for their gas business and in the meantime were helping to facilitate rudy giuliani's contacts with ukrainian officials. they were sort of go-betweens,

the charges say. >> so there are a lot of threads to be unraveled here, we'll have a lot more on that coming up in a bit. thank you, pete williams, for starting us off today. now to the other major story, turkey's incursion into northern syria. president trump's decision to abandon the syrian kurds causing shock waves around the world and undermining the bedrock support the president has from republican congresspeople. thousands of isis fighters are left potentially unguarded in prison camps. president trump says he's okay with that as long as they stay in europe, which alone is an alarming statement. nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons is

along the turkey/syria border. keir? >> reporter: hey, andrea. i'll explain where we are, in a turkish town which has been hit through the day by mortar rounds fired out of syria. they have killed multiple people, according to reports. and just a few hours ago, while we were reporting, a mortar round flew right over our heads and landed a short distance away from us. of course in the dark it gets more dangerous. what we've done is moved away from that location where we were overlooking the syrian border, just to be a little safer, pulled on the side of the road so we could talk to you, andrea. what we've watched through the day is turkish artillery pounding a syrian town and the area around it that we heard ground forces engaging. it sounded like it was aircraft fire at times and also artillery fire.

clearly turkey is using its artillery ammunitions to try and soften the area before sending in more ground forces. and what we saw today, andrea, was president erdogan angry, refuting the suggestion that what he's doing is going to let isis prisoners free. he says he will ensure that doesn't happen, and threatening europe, because increasingly there is condemnation from around the world, including europe, president erdogan threatening europe saying, if you call this an invasion then i will release the more than 3 million syrian refugees here in turkey and they will flood europe. so a straightforward battle and also a battle of words playing out here. in a sense, andrea, the turks have a short period of time in terms of diplomacy to try and get what they want done, which is to create an area many people believe pushing out the kurdish forces and kurdish people who

live there. people are saying this is a kind of a cleansing of the kurds who have been living there and holding this place and helping the united states defeat isis. one other point, the town we were looking at, andrea, that town actually had u.s. forces there, a very small number, at an observation point. those u.s. forces, it was tiny, a handful, they pulled out and of course a few days later we've seen turkey move in. so we've seen a really practical example of the way that america and president trump reducing its forces has enabled turkey to move into this area of syria. >> keir simmons, please be safe, get to an even safer place than you are right now. thank you so much for pausing along the roadside there. all alarming to people back here. rhode island senator jack reed among them, a top democrat on the armed services committee, a military veteran. senator reed, first of all, for the president to say that it's

okay for those isis fighters whom the kurdish forces helped capture to then be released as long as they go towards europe, let's get your initial reaction to that. >> it's a preposterous statement. they are there to fight. they will find through isis cells ways to organize. they will carry out operations in the region. and they will probably work to export terrorism, europe first, because they have ties there, they're mostly europeans, but worldwide. it is a colossal misjudgment by the president, based on his ill-informed view. the sense i have is he wanted to do this months ago, he was held back by secretary mattis and by

others. but now he seems to be unhinged and is just moving forward with policies and plans that endanger the security of the united states and turns the back on allies who fought with us and bled with us to defeat isis. >> i wanted to play something the president said last night, which underscores the view of you and other critics, republicans as well as democrats, that he is really uninformed, to put it politely. let's watch. >> they're fighting for their land, so you understand. as someone wrote in a very powerful article today, they didn't help us in the second world war, they didn't help us with normandy, as an example. in addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money on helping the kurds in terms of ammunition, in terms of weapons, in terms of money, in terms of pay. with all of that being said, we

like the kurds. >> so the kurds were not with the brits and the canadians helping us at normandy. let me just ask you to comment on all of this. >> it's absurd. you know, that's as if he said they weren't with us at lexington and concord in our revolution. it's completely absurd. it underscores the fact that he's deeply uninformed. he's impulsive. it's all about him. and that he has no concept of policy or history or anything else. and these decisions are being made without any sort of thought by his advisers. i don't believe any of his security advisers suggested to him that he allow the turks to come into syria because they understand the consequences.

he doesn't understand the consequences. he doesn't pay attention. it's simply, at the moment, if it feels good, he does it. the comment about normandy, why would he ally with saudi arabia? they didn't support us in normandy, they weren't at the beachheads. why does he ally himself with any countries? it's because we have present day security interests and we need them to achieve those interests of the united states. this astounding statement, if it wasn't -- you would think this was some type of comedy show, not a presidential press conference. >> it does speak to the way he responds when he's on the phone with foreign leaders. so this all becomes part of a larger conversation i think that you all are having on capitol hill. i want to also just point out that he is losing people like lindsey graham, liz cheney, key republican allies, and bibi

netanyahu. this tweet from the israeli leader today, he is condemning this turkish invasion of kurdish areas, saying israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant kurdish people. the point there being, this helps iran, this helps russia, this helps assad, all the people that we've been fighting and that the kurds have bled for for five years in syria. >> well, i don't think the kurds have any other option than trying to resist the invasion. that means just on a tactical standpoint, they can't continue to guard these isis prisoners. those isis prisoners will gradual either shift away from the prison compounds or dramatically leave. they'll become weaponized, they'll be in fighting in the region and probably attempt to

go overseas. then you have the situation where the kurdish forces might see the only future they have, they're being attacked by turkey, is to ally themselves with the assad regime. in the past they've had a relationship with assad's father so it's not ahistoric that they would cut a deal for their survival with assad. the russians and iranians are deeply committed to assad. this situation is becoming worse and worse and worse. and the israelis recognize that. and it's their neighborhood that is going to be severely impacted immediately. again, the other factor too is, we have to recognize that the president has basically the national security apparatus of the united states. he is firing people from the nsc, doing so many things like that. in the interim between the mattis departure and this, there

was no real planning about, well, what if the president decided to withdraw, how do we protect these -- how do we secure these isis prisoners, how do we go ahead and ensure there's not a huge upheaval in syria that spreads out of syria, into iraq, into the levant, towards israel. none of this has been planned for. this was an impulsive, uninformed strategic mistake of the first order. >> senator jack reed, thank you so much. coming up, the latest on the arrest of two associates of rudy giuliani, one who was supposed testify today on capitol hill. what could all this mean for the president's personal lawyer going forward? you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us on msnbc. remia tchl reports. stay with us on msnbc. ehind. or child. or other child. or their new friend. or your giant nephews

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house democrats are preparing more subpoenas for relevant witnesses and documents. the top nsc russia director, fiona hill, who has resigned, is expected monday to voluntarily appear in congress. she probably knows a lot. two giuliani associates who were helping him investigate the b e bidens in ukraine were arrested today, as we've been reporting. and on campaign finance violation charges, and will be appearing in federal court early this afternoon. they ducked appearance this week on capitol hill. joining me now, phil rucker, peter baker, and ruth marcus. phil rucker, first of all, with a more do we know about these two men and their connection to giuliani in ukraine and how this might intersect with the impeachment inquiry? >> andrea, it's a fast-moving story.

it sounds like we'll see these men in court later today. we may learn more information as the day bears on. but it shines a light on rudy giuliani who has been the president's personal lawyer for some time now. we've already been discussing the last few weeks the extent to which giuliani has commandeered american foreign policy with the state department, with his engagement in ukraine and doing other sort of personal missions on behalf of president trump. but this brings a potentially criminal element here because of these campaign finance violations and charges. and it raises a lot of questions about what exactly giuliani has been up to the last a couple of years. >> and one could imagine that in typical prosecutorial fashion, peter baker, they'll be pressed to tell what they know about higher-ups. rudy giuliani is obviously the principal higher-up here in connection with them so this could open a pandora's box.

>> exactly, the timing couldn't be more stunning. it's like a television show. the day one was supposed to testify before the hill, they weren't likely to show but they would have been subpoenaed later. they happened to be arrested on a separate case. there are so many layers to this story, so many layers to this ol ukraine matter, that we're seeing each day, you know, more and more ripples that kind of raise questions rather than answer them and in fact, you know, plumb us deeper into the ukraine/russia/u.s. world right now. >> we don't know more about rick perry and other cabinet officials who have been asked questions by reporters and haven't answered them. vice president mike pence was pressed about this growing scandal, he was the person who was supposed to go to that inauguration and was replaced by rick perry and he says he didn't know why he was pulled back from it and didn't know anything about the call.

but this is the most of the recent questioning by our own vaughn hillyard just yesterday about the vice president. >> i never discussed the issue of, uh, the issue of the bidens with president zelensky. >> reporter: but were you aware of -- >> whattic te i can tell you isf our discussions internally, in the context of my office and the ukraine were entirely focused on the broader issues of lack of european support. >> reporter: you were aware of the bidens being investigated and that being tied to aid being held up. >> that's your question. >> and completely pushing back against any of the questioning. ruth marcus, the president's attacks on the whistle-blower which have been refuted now by the whistle-blower's attorney, but still could have a chilling effect on other whistle-blowers

and other witnesses. >> yes, and that may be in fact the point. it is scary to come forward with allegations like this. it is not just scary in terms of your career but it is scary, as i understand it, in terms of your personal security and the risks to yourself and your family, and much concern on the part of the whistle-blower and his lawyers about personal security. that's why we've seen discussions from the democrats about keeping his identity a secret. and when the president of the united states attacks you, he has millions and millions, tens of millions of twitter followers, some of whom we've seen in the past, and this is not the president's fault, but some of these twitter followers are deranged and can try to use violence against you. that is a scary situation. >> and we've just learned that the subpoenas that were expected against these two giuliani

associates have now been issued as well from the house impeachment inquiry. how that interacts with what the southern district is doing, because it is expected that after their appearance in court today, the case will then move back to manhattan where they were originally indicted for campaign finance violations. we'll have to leave it there on a very busy news day as we proceed. thanks very much to ruth marcus, phil rucker and peter baker. coming up, former u.n. ambassador, former national security adviser to president obama, susan rice. stay with us. ing . >> stephen, i woke up this morning to hear that news. it seems like six days a week, i put my head in my hands. this is [ bleep ] crazy. [ bleep. >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone.

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policy decisions, including getting out of the iran nuclear deal, the paris climate change accords, siding with vladimir putin, and of course pressuring ukraine to investigate the bidens as well as inviting china to do the same. joining me now, ambassador susan rice, national security adviser and ambassador to the u.n. during the obama administration. her new book is "tough love: my story of the things worth fighting over." there are a lot more things now worth fighting over, even since this went to print. >> fighting for. >> fighting for, rather. welcome. >> thank you. >> congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> the syrian kurds lost upwards of 11,000 men and women fighting on the front lines against isis. we, by most accounts, lost, sadly, four troops, special forces in the region. but they were really shedding their blood for us. >> absolutely.

>> now they are being displaced, they're having to go to the front lines to go up against turkey. we face the wholesale release of thousands of isis fighters which the president says can go to europe. >> andrea, it's such an outrage, it's so shameful. we worked with the kurds, who basically fought isis for us, because we found a more rational and economical means of fighting terrorism post-iraq ground war, post-afghanistan. and this was president obama's initiative, to work, as the military likes to say, by, with, and through partners. in syria, to fight isis, the kurds were those partners. the u.s. contribution was to arm and train and equip them. the reason we lost such a few number of americans, however tragic that loss is, in this critical fight against isis, is

because the kurds were doing the ballots f battle for us and we were working with them. this is the way we should be fighting terrorism. we won't be able to do that in the future, though, because we've just demonstrated through donald trump's impulsivivity that the united states can work with you one day and wake up the next morning and sell you out. and that's exactly what's happened. the consequences for our partnerships and alliances around the world, whether countries can have faith in our constancy, are huge. but then the real world consequences on the ground in syria cannot be overstated. these people are going to be killed and slaughtered by the turks who were brutal. and they will not be able to continue to keep pressure on isis, not to mention the 10,000 plus isis terrorist prisoners who will no longer have the full security provided by the kurds as they have to now defend themselves. those 10,000 terrorists donald

trump has just in effect given a get out of jail free card to. >> what is your reaction also to his invitation to china to join in and his phone call with the ukrainian leader inviting him to help get dirt on the bidens? >> he's put a for-sale sign on the oval office, andrea. whether you're china, our most formidable adversary, or ukraine, a partner, what the president has said is, you manufacture, make up some fake dirt on my opponent and i'll give you what you want. it's always a quid pro quo with him. in the case of ukraine, he extorted up to $400 million in military assistance and a white house visit and withheld both until he thought he could get satisfaction from the ukrainians in terms of making up dirt on biden. to call on china from the south lawn of the white house to

interfere in our elections and to create dirt on biden that doesn't exist, in the next sentence, after he said, you know, we can punish them and do all these things with respect to trade? the clear implication, in beijing they're no dummies, what i'm sure they heard is if they give trump what he wants on biden then they might get what they want on trade and national security. can you imagine? after all americans have suffered through donald trump's trade war, all our farmers have suffered, all of our manufacturers have suffered, all that we as taxpayers have suffered because we're the ones paying these tariffs, and he says to the chinese in effect, let's make a deal. >> how did you feel about him bringing trey gowdy in who led the benghazi probe which had a major impact on your life as well, to be part of his defense counsel? let's watch a bit of june 12th, 2012.

>> the notion that you can withhold information and documents from congress no matter whether you're the party in power or not in power is wrong. respect for the rule of law must mean something irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles. >> trey gowdy is now going to help him continue to withhold documents and witnesses. >> how times have changed. you know, the constitution is the constitution, andrea, whether you're the party in power or the party out of power. it seems that trey gowdy, and mike pompeo who was also involved in benghazi, they were very righteous and actually correct in their statements when they were the opposition. but today it's as if the constitution and the rule of law don't matter. trey gowdy, you know, i barely know.

he led the eighth and most relentless investigation of benghazi, which found, just like the previous investigations, that i did not to persimislead american people. i'm frankly surprised he would want to be a part of this. >> in your book "tough love," you recount how you went on the sunday shows including "meet the press" and, according to the cia-drafted guidance which was the administration's position, because there were covert secrets involved, and your testimony then blew up, but your mother pressed you, your late mother. >> before i went on the show. >> before you went on the shows, and you write about that. you say, she said, why do you have to go on the shows, where is hillary, the secretary of

state, of course? she was unrelenting. i smell a rat. can't you get out of it? >> got to love your mother, i miss her mightily. she had an intuition that i didn't have. my mom was really smart. and in some ways rather prescient, not just about this but about a number of things. she had just come off her fourth or fifth cancer surgery and a stroke. i stopped by to visit her on friday night before i was to go on the sunday shows. she asked whativ ive was doing the weekend, explainediv ive wa taking the kids to go to ohio state for a football game and was scheduled to go on the sunday shows. her reaction showed she understood that in a political campaign, when a crisis occurs, in all likelihood the first person who is speaking publicly in a sustained way is as likely

to be attacked as the message itself. she tried to tell me. as i acknowledge in the book, she was right. >> your young daughter had all kinds of medical effects. >> andrea, she experienced hallucinations, in effect, in the weeks and months that flowed from that. and we obviously were extremely concerned as parents. we took her to children's hospital for a whole two-week battery of tests because they were trying to figure out could this be a brain tumor, could it be schizophrenia or some other kind of psychosis, could it be a visual problem. thankfully those worst case scenarios were ruled out and they were left with the conclusion that this was a stress reaction to what was happening to me. and we failed to turn off the tv quickly enough. the good news is she's a happy,

successful 17-year-old now. after a year all those symptoms went away. what it says to me, andrea, whatever party you're in, wherever you come from, when you're a victim of the politics of personal destruction in this town, it affects not just the person who is the target but the people who love the target. >> you had to withdraw from the secretary of state nomination as a result. >> i chose to withdraw. >> you chose to withdraw. >> yes. >> one other quick question. i've been told by a former diplomat, that the president's concern about ukraine having interfered and the democrats interfering with our election -- >> this president. >> this president, dates back to august of 2016 when manafort had to be removed as his campaign chair because of the black ledger being released. did you know anything about that at the time? >> no, and i still don't know anything about it because it

didn't happen, to my knowledge. i don't know what was going on with paul manafort, clearly trump and his people would know much more about that. i do know, as the intelligence community has repeatedly validated, as the senate intelligence community on a bi partisan basis this week, that it was russia that intervened in our 2016 election and continues to undermine or democracy to this day. i have no idea. this looks to me like yet another trump effort to deflect and distract and try to salvage the legitimacy of his election by trying to put the blame on the ukrainians and the democrats. if the ukrainians were interfering on the democratic side, to which there is no evidence, they surely did a bad job. >> susan rice. the book is "tough love." thank you very much for being

with us today. an extraordinary story of your life growing up and being an refuse african-american woman in foreign policy. >> thank you, andrea, appreciate it. >> we appreciate you, thanks. coming up, senator bernie sanders vowing a vigorous 2020 campaign, dismissing criticism that he tried to downplay his heart attack. our exclusive interview. pping. you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on. you get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. you get fast and free shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. that's what you get when you've got wayfair. so shop now!

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in full view of the world

and the american people, donald trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation. he should be impeached. he's shooting holes in the constitution and we cannot let him get away with it. [ applause ] >> former vice president joe biden for the first time actually calling for president trump's impeachment. joining me now is tom perez, chair of the democratic national committee. chairman, thank you very much. there was a time when mainstream democrats and certainly nancy pelosi were really concerned about talk about the "i" word, thinking it would blow back against 2020 candidates and against the party and the campaign. not so anymore. >> well, this is unprecedented, where we are right now. this abuse of power is so clear. and it's so simple to explain and yet it's so insidious at the same time, andrea. i mean, you have a foreign nation attacked by one of our

fiercest adversaries. they need our help. the global community comes together. republicans and democrats come together. and then this president says, we're holding up that foreign aid until i get a favor. that is unconscionable. that's an abuse of power. this is a president, i think people are starting to see, the dots that are being connected here, this is a president whose north star is himself. he didn't call up the leader of ukraine to say i need a favor before i can give you this aid, i need you to buy wheat from montana farmers or i need you to buy cars from our u.s. workers. no, it's all about himself. and our national security is so at risk. you had ambassador rice here, and what's happening in turkey, when spineless lindsey graham is speaking out against this president on turkey, you know that that is a bad situation.

so he's putting our national security at risk. he is abusing the authority of the office. and we must as democrats walk and chew gum. and that's exactly what we're doing. we're doing this investigation and we're doing it in a sober fashion. and at the same time we continue to make sure we're working on the issues that the american people elected democrats for in 2018. health care, making sure that we raise the minimum wage, making sure that we take on the pharmaceutical industry. we have to walk and chew gum and that's exactly what democrats are doing. >> what about the age factor? bernie sanders in an exclusive interview with harry smith said he misspoke when he said he would slow down his campaign. >> i misspoke the other day, i said a word i should not have said. people wonder why the media drives me nuts. surprise, surprise, we're not

doing four events a day. >> he's 78, elizabeth warren and joe biden, battling for first place, with warren now in frontrunner status, does that concern you, about being able to attract young voters, new voters, and sustain a tough fight against the president? >> every one of the democrats who are running for president has a ton of energy and is running a spirited campaign. i met with bernie sanders on the campaign last week, his energy is boundless. all the candidates, we have an embarrassment of riches, i think, in the democratic field. and i think that is going to serve us well. and what all the candidates and what the events of these recent weeks especially crystallize for us is that it's not about any one candidate. it is truly about our democracy on the ballot. we're at a moral fork in the road here. we have a chronic democracy recession right now with this

president. and everybody running for president understands. they want to win, of course you want to win when you run. but they understand that we must come together and we will come together as democrats around whoever the nominee is, because this is about health care. this is about women's reproductive health, this is about good jobs. this is about democracy as we know it. the american people are starting to realize it because this president is truly becoming unhinged. it's affecting our national security. he constantly puts himself over the public interest. >> we'll have to leave it there for now. we'll continue this conversation between now and of course the upcoming debate as well, we've got a debate next week and then again a new nbc news/"washington post" debate in georgia on november 20th. msnbc and all of our platforms will be participating in that. coming up, chaos. that's what retired four-star general john allen calls

president trump's decision to abandon our kurdish allies. he'll be joining us next right here. be joining us next right here . saturdays happen. pain happens. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. in so many ways. which cage free eggs taste fresher and more delicious? only eggland's best. which organic eggs have more vitamins and less saturated fat? only eggland's best.

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r. in the uk that killed 22 individuals. that's what we're looking at is isis gets out of prison, breaks out and spreads out across the region. >> joining me now is john allen, the former special presidential envoy with the global coalition to isis. he is now president of the brookings institute. general allen, you fought isis. you fought to contain isis, diplomatically and on the ground. what about these thousands of isis prisoners. the president says let them go to europe? >> first, that is a really bad idea under any stretch of the imagination. they are very, very dangerous organization. and for us to flippantly make comments about how they ought to go to europe or anyone else other than where they are, which is detention, it's just not connected to reality. that is the problem that we

have. this organization is never going to give up. whether they're in a detention camp, in the battle space organizing, they are a danger. and setting the conditions where they might be released -- setting the conditions where they could ultimately head back to europe, is just a destabilizing violent problem. >> what about moral among the troops. our special forces were along size these kurds and throughout our regions, we know we're abandoning our brother's and sisters in arms. >> i would let them speak for themselves, we're beginning to hear from the soldiers who are ashamed of the situation they're in now. who could blame them. ambassador rice was correct. we operate by, with, and through these partners. it is a very powerful strategy.

these young troops, they feel a special relationship with these kurds, and to have no notice that we would be abandoning them, we have a moral problem if we're not careful. >> what would you do if you're dealing with their commander and chief, if you were sick, deaf, or chairman of the joint chiefs and you're dealing with someone that doesn't understand alliances. >> we do have a president that doesn't understand those. they weren't at nor man normand there was a lot of allies that were not there. they had confidence in american strategy and leadership and neither are being demonstrated right now. when we talked about and created in the previous administration a 65 nation, well over 70 nation

coalition to defeat the islamic state, that happened because of presidential leadership. for stayed together and it continued to be effective generating to the point where we are today because there was a strategy as well. there is no evident strategy as the president understands it and there is no leadership that is coming out of the oval office on this. >> and we're hearing this from others in the troop orbit for sure that are fiercely critical of this. >> they should be. beyond the fact that 10,000 to 12,000 isis fighters could be released in the region with all of the potential consequences of that, that part of the region was well on it's way to being stabilized. that's what the thousand of americans were doing. they were creating an environment within which they could stabilize this population that could go through hell. the turkish attack is uprooting all of that. it is creating another wave of refugees, there is blood being stilled everywhere and we warned

against this. this would end up in a lot of blood and the region is being destabilized. the backwash could go against the israelis and the saudis and they are at this decision to permit them. >> we'll be right back. back hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams. aleve it. with aleve pm. mom and pain happens.mirez!!! the only one to combine a safe sleep aid. and the 12-hour pain relieving strength of aleve.

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and this just in, kelly o'donnell of nbc news won the life time achievement award for congressional reporting from the radio television. nude dire news directors, and here are ali velshi and stephanie ruhle. breaking news, two associated of donald trump's personal attorney have been arrested. they played a role in getting ukraineian officials to investigate the bidens. >> and we continue to follow turkey's assault on syria. casualties are rising and turkey says their ground offensive have been successful.