ukraine and ukraine's know other transcripts have leaked out in the past, but the independence. and this just put everything on president had calls in the past its head and continues to in our with foreign leaders that maybe work we must be doing with were a little unorthodox, but ukraine and the other baltic was it your sense this was in nations. zp really laid out there. a lot of food for thought given terms of the alarm bells being the scandals and levels. setoff here and registered, that senator klobuchar, thanks for this was unique in that sense? >> yeah, this was different. coming back on "the beat." >> president trump will be in my i think there are calls it's outrageous, calls it's state claiming he can win it surprising and i think what was tonight, but that's where he is different here is people heard tonight and it's his first rally something they felt was potentially illegal. since this investigation opened. >> amy klobuchar, sort of >> congressman, i know you're anti-plugging the trump rally. still with us and i'm just >> that is exactly right. curious. we're all processing this, i >> "hardball" is up right now. assume you are. but what is your reaction to this news? >> well, we know exactly what happened. what happened was a cover-up. flight risks. the tapes of the transcripts let's play hardball. wept into a deep vault. we know people began to scramble to cover up what is apparently an illegal action by the president with regard to the campaign financing laws as well good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris as perhaps other laws dealing with bribery in a foreign

matthews. major new developments today. country. and so what did they do? it raised more questions for they did a cover-up. president trump's personal now, who did it? lawyer rudy giuliani, and that that's why we need subpoenas, could affect the ongoing need the president to come forth impeachment inquiry. to end his stonewalling, to federal law enforcement officers allow people to do what they last night arrested two business must do, and that is to testify associates of giuliani's before congress, get the facts charging them in a scheme to out there and we'll see where it make illegal political donations to influence u.s. relations with goes. always been said forever it's the cover-up that gets you in ukraine. among other things igor fruman trouble. and we know from all the information that has thus far and lez pornas allegedly made been forthcoming that there was illegal contributions and stand at least a cover-up here and quite possibly in other places. accused of funneling illegal >> and greg, i want to make sure donations from a russian clear on the details here. national to other political the folks who raised concerns, candidates. the arrests come as the two expressed concerns you're reporting on, these are people giuliani associates potentially on the call, these are people emerge as key figures in the who heard about the call? >> yeah, it was a combination of trump-ukraine scandal. both people who are on the call they were reportedly helping giuliani pursue allegations or listening into the call and against joe and hunter biden on people who had heard about it within the white house. behalf of the president. so the immediate kind of as "the wall street journal" national security council staff. >> and for folks who aren't reports quote they've introduced familiar how the different sort of facets of the bureaucracy

giuliani to several current and sort of interact ear, the people former prosecutors to discuss you're describing, would these the biden case. their lawyer suggested as much in a letter to congress this be national security professionals who are sort of in much saying this, quote, be place no matter who the president is, no matter which advised mr. parnas and fruman party controls the white house? are these political appointees you're talking about here? >> it's actually a mix of both assisted him and he's met, political appointees and career quote, many times with the officials. >> it's both. president in the last year. and i say in terms of what they expressed here, did they make posts on social media appear to confirm at least one of those written statements? are there records that might come out pertaining to this at interaction back in may as well as an apparent breakfast meeting all? >> yeah, i don't know. my understanding is that from with trump, jr. which took place our reporting is that they went later that month. to the nse lawyer and did not however, president trump today said he doesn't know either man. provide written statements but, you know, expressed concerns >> what conversations have you verbally. now as to whether mr. isenberg had with leg parnas and took notes or typed up a report i don't know. >> again, you just reported this

igorfruman? >> i don't know maybe they were clients of rudy. breaking news piece in "the washington post." thank you for taking a few you'd have to ask rudy. i just don't know. minutes. we appreciate it. >> "the wall street journal" reports according to an eyewitness parnas and fruman had mieke eoyang, i want to get your reaction as well. >> i think both of these lunch at trump tower yesterday stories, what they indicate is it's very clear the president's actions are illegal and the just hours before their arrests. white house has known it for according to prosecutors they quite some time. you don't go through the effort had one-way tickets to leave the to hide this transcript in a country. their planned departure came deep dark vault after all these just before they were supposed to testify in the house officials expressed alarm and impeachment inquiry in what the doj indictments depositions scheduled for today unsealed today show you is that and for tomorrow. now on the day of their arrests foreign campaign contrapugzs are they've also been served with a a crime. this is far from a perfect call. subpoena for documents in the president has done something connection with the impeachment seriously wrong here. he can't say this is nothing and inquiry. for more i am joined by business as usual. the department of justice considers this kind of activity congressman a member of the a crime, and they've been trying house armed services committee to hide it. >> steve, if i could, the who just returned from a congressional trip to ukraine. context here and the time line mieke eoyang, vice president for so our viewers can understand the national security program, where the whistleblower fits and ken dilanian an nbc news into this. correspondent. "the post" is reporting these ken, let me just start with you to get the details clear on

officials raised these questions some before and some after the this. officially this is case july 25th phone call. prosecutors are bringing on and at some point later that campaign finance grounds. transcript of that call was put but all sorts of connections into a highly classified system here between these two at the white house. and then a little bit after individuals and rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer that, some of these officials and his activities in relation who had heard the call directly to ukraine. went to the whistleblower who take us through what we know was a cia officer and at that time was back at the cia, had about those connections. >> that's right, steve, this can worked in the white house and get pretty complicated pretty knew these people and that quick, but the bottom line here whistleblower began gathering is donald trump has said what he these accounts and went to the was doing in ukraine and sending cia lawyers, the cia general rudy giuliani to do was about council who then called john corruption and battling corruption. well, these charges suggest there was corruption at the iseberg, the top lawyer tat the heart of that inquiry because national security council and these two men were involved with said we have problems with this rudy and introducing him to ukrainian politicians and other figures that rudy was then call. then they went and gathered lobbying to investigate joe and information. hunter biden and pursue other at that point the cia general council made what she considered a criminal referral to the investigations donald trump wanted in connection with the justice department about that 2016 election. call, and then some time later and at the same time, pai, they the whistleblower complaint came in. that's the time line, steve. >> great context. were pursuing private business thank you, ken, for providing

deals. what these charges say is that that. one more question to you, ken, all the while this was as well. happening, they were essentially i want to return to the story we making straw donations and they led with there as well. were funneling foreign money obviously you mentioned all the illegally into political connections to giuliani. campaigns. and one of the contributions is a huge their giuliani not included in this indictment today. scheme because when they were in again it's a campaign finance ukraine they were claiming they indictment. had political juice with the there's all sorts of trump administration. speculation. and that was how they were do you have any reporting, do trying to get this natural gas you have any sense if prosecutors are interested in business deal they were doing. giuliani at all ultimately here? and also getting introductions >> there are reports out there, steve, that we have not with senior politicians. confirmed. the word we're getting is of they were wearing different hats and it was all a murky course there is scrutiny of rudy giuliani as a part of this arrangement. but the bottom line here today inquiry. is the prosecutors said the he had relationships with these investigation is continuing, people who are now under indictment. steve. >> congressman, we mentioned in he was working with them closely terms of investigation here in some very controversial these two individuals were matters. there is scrutiny and nothing to supposed to be deposed as part of the house impeachment suggest yet he's a target of an inquiry. what is it potentially still investigation. he's not saying much today, but that you and your colleagues are certainly when i talk to my hoping to learn from them? congressional sources, that is >> well, get down to the where their attention is focused details. here, the question of what was what were they there for, when rudy giuliani's role in the were they working for, where the political contributions, in the

business deals they were trying to arrange. information came from, and what who was paying for rudy's trip to ukraine? after all what rudy was doing is would send them to dulles at the heart of the impeachment airport to get out so quickly? and a lot of those threads lead inquiry, which is charging donald trump abused his power to back to giuliani and then pressure the ukrainian government. giuliani to the president he was doing that in part himself. that's why the subpoenas have to through rudy giuliani, steve. >> thank you all for being with go out. that's why these folks have to appear and the information and us. thank you for rolling with us as e-mails and all the other data needs to be submitted. well through that breaking news. clearly this was an allegation appreciate the time. of a crime, and i'm sure it's and coming up, the white not the only one. house's defiant letter to >> i'm going to ask everybody to congress vowing not to cooperate standby for just a minute because i am hearing this and with the impeachment inquiry. i'm going to tell you about it what is he really hoping to now. we have some breaking news that accomplish by stonewalling and could it work? is just coming in. this is being reported at this plus 16 prominent conservative moment by "the washington post." lawyers call for a quote quote, at least four national expeditious impeachment security officials were so investigation arguing the alarmed by the trump established facts show a clear administration's attempts to abuse of office by the pressure ukraine for political president. one of the 16 who signed that purposes that they raised concerns with a white house document will be here. we've got much more to get to. lawyer both before and stay with us. we've got much more to get to. stay with us immediately after president tailored recommendations, trump's july 25th call with that tax-efficient investing strategies, country's president. and a dedicated advisor again, this being reported right to help you grow and protect your wealth.

now by "the washington post." they also report this, quote, fidelity wealth management. the nature and timing of the previously undisclosed discussions indicate that officials were delivering warnings through official white house channels earlier than i am royalty of racing, previously understood. and we have greg jaffy who has i am alfa romeo. reported this is joining us on was in an accident. the phone. i'm sorry, i'm just being told when i called usaa, it was that voice asking me, this through my ear and trying to convey. "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. we just read sort of the headline findings from your we're the rivera family story here. and we plan to be with usaa for life. but essentially you are learning and you're telling us more see how much you can save with usaa insurance. people than we realized raised concerns about this call. >> yeah, that's right. concern has been percolating for a while among some prior to the call and then immediately after kind of a flare goes up and there's significant worry. and some folks go immediately to johnizenbering who's the national security council lawyer

to register their concerns about what had happened on the call and the direction of ukraine see how much you can save i had no idea that my grandfatherfe changing moment for me. policy. >> as they registered their was a federal judge in guatemala. concerns, did anything happen he was an advocate for the people... then? >> you know, it's not clear. a voice for the voiceless. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com izenberg, from one of our sourceobviously the president a

welcome back to "hardball." tonight president trump will make his case for re-election at a rally in minneapolis. this his first rally since the launch of the impeachment inquiry am and comes even as the white house ramps up its showdown with congress over the impeachment probe. today the president responded to a new fox news poll that showed 51% of voters would like to see him impeached and removed from office. trump tweeted this quote, whoever their pollster is they suck, adding that fox news doesn't deliver for us anymore. and by extension republican senators who would have to vote in any impeachment trial. colorado republican senator cory gardener who is up for re-election next year showed the binds the president has potentially put republicans in when he was asked about trump's call with ukraine's leader. take a look. >> do you believe it's appropriate for the president of the united states to ask a foreign leader to investigate a

political rival, yes or no? >> this is what we're going to get into. the senate intelligence committee is having an investigation, a bipartisan investigation. unfortunately, though, what we've seen is a very political process take over. >> it's a yes or no. >> you see a very partisan process taking place. why is it when you all do stories or we see reports in the news it's about four states, colorado, arizona, maine, and north carolina. >> but the question is it appropriate for a president to ask a foreign government -- >> it's a nonpartisan investigation. it's an answer that you get from a very serious investigation. >> for more i'm joined by peter baker, "the new york times" chief correspondent and philip rucker. that clip we showed, that went on for some time, gardener refusing to answer. the question there was is it appropriate for the president to be asking a foreign country to

aid in an investigation of his rival. gardener not the only republican who has been unwilling to answer that question. explain the complicated or tricky politics that is making republicans hesitant to answer that. >> well, steve, it sounds like a pretty simple question with a yes or no answer, but we've seen over the last couple of weeks that a number of republican senators have a had really pained experiences trying to come up with those answers. there have really actually been only a few, handful of senate republicans who have come out and said directly it's inappropriate or improper or wrong for a president to do what president trump appear tuesday have done which is to solicit help from a foreign government to help damage a domestic political opponent. and the reason for that is these republican senators are so fearful of getting on the wrong side of president trump, ethey know he has a commanding power with the republican voting base and fear primary challenges.

senator gardener is up for releection in 2020. that could invite a primary challenge from the right and tomorrow that could make it very difficult for him to make it to re-election. >> peter baker, i'm thanking back the last impeachment we had 20 years ago with bill clinton, back then democrats who wanted to stay loyal to clinton had this middle ground where they could condemn his behavior. he himself would go out there and acknowledge he had behaved poorly. and he's admitted it's terrible, he shouldn't be impeached over it. i get the sense from some of these republican senators they would like to distance themselves from trump's acs with ukraine while saying impeachment is not an appropriate step. but if the president's position is i did nothing wrong, the call was perfect, i had a duty to pressure ukraine like this, impossible for republicans to find a similar middle ground. >> well, i think that's right, steve. you're exactly right. the conflict between republicans and democrats back then, and

you're right. the difference is that president clinton did acknowledge wrongdoing. he didn't acknowledge at least at first anyway any legal wrongdoing. he said, look, i strayed from my wedding vows. i lied to the country, i lied to my wife, i shouldn't have done it, i'm sorry. and that gave democrats something to condemn him without saying it rose to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor. here's there is no middle ground. the republicans are stuck with president trump's adamant denial he did anything wrong whatsoever. as long as he sticks with that position they're going to have stick with him or find themselves on the receiving end of a trump twitter blast or the consequences of his base. >> making his own arguments against impeachment the associated press reports this -- white house officials close to president trump are pulling off a disappearing act, remaining largely absent from public view over the middle of the storm. many of the white house's most

visible foilgsz have been view letting the president's indignant twitter feed and frequent commentaryscenes, what it looks like in public, that folks in the white house, his aids are trump to i improvise this on twitter? >> they've let president trump handle his own defenses. there's been a handful of republican congressmen rush to his defense on television. but you're not seeing the sort of full throated defense you're used to seeing at moments of crisis in the white house. you're not seeing the defense secretary come out on camera to discuss this issue, and i think trump wants to do it himself. he thinks he's a better communicator than anyone working for him and that's why he's been tangling with reporters almost every day throughout this crisis. but the other answer is that the

white house talking points have proven over the last few weeks not to hold up. there are new discoveries, new revelations coming forward every day and sometimes those are contradicting the talking points. so you might see reluctance from white house aides. >> peter, along those same lines of the president setting the tone he's about to hold this rally out in minneapolis. his first political rally, first campaign rally since the launch of the impeachment inquiry. certainly if past is prologue here, he's going to have some pretty choice words on this subject tonight. what are you looking for in terms of the president, the tone he set tonight and how his party might respond to it? >> i think that's exactly right. if we assume the house democrats have taken the leap they have taken and are heading towards an impeachment vote they'd probably pea on party lines and the president would have to go on trial where it doesn't look like 20 republican senators would break with him, and the real court then is going to be the

voters, #2020, that will be the ultimate verdict on whether impeachment was a legitimate effort or not and whether the president was fit for office or not. he's got the first tonight of three rallyies in the next week where he'll no doubt make the case this impeachment is in his mind illegitimate and to keep the republicans in his corner. when president clinton survived impeachment it was by keeping democrats in his corner when it came to the idea of an impeachment or trial. that's what president trump needs to do here as well. but he's also got something president trump did want have, an election ahead of him. >> i think it was lamar alexander who put out a statement saying impeachment is a bad idea because of the elections next year. i'm interested to see if other republicans pick up on that theme. up next, the legal case for a quick impeachment investigation. you're watching "hardball." achm investigation. you're watching "hardball. ♪ (dramatic orchestra)

performance comes in lots of flavors. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ (count) time for one chore [thunder crashing], ah! ahh! my mower! (burke) the number "one." seen it, covered it. at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. (bert) mmm. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ can't imagine doing it any other way. this is caitlin dickerson from the new york times. this isn't the only case. very little documentation. lo que yo quiero estar con mi hijo. i know that's not true. and the shelters really don't know what to do with them. i just got another person at d.h.s. to confirm this.

i have this number. we're going to publish the story. could another come aroundot, the corner. i have this number. or could it play out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98% of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding.

don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling numbness or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planed medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be your moment. ask your doctor about eliquis. hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams.

welcome back to "hardball." more than a dozen prominent conservative lawyers including george conway, the husband of white house counselor kellyanne conway released a joint letter today calling for an expeditious impeachment of president trump. the lawyers many of whom have worked in previous administrations say the evidence already presented makes the, quote, undisputed case that

trump violated his oath of office. in the letter they writes, quote, we have not just a political candidate open to receiving foreign assistance to better his chances at winning an election but a current president openly and privately calling on foreign governments to actively interfere then most sacred of u.s. democratic processes, our electionsch for more i'm joined by one of the lawyers who signs that letter who's also a former trump transition letter and a former republican senate judiciary staffer. thank you to both of you for joining us. the word expeditious, saying you would like a quick, a speedy impeachment process, what do you have in mind there and why is that so important? >> well, i think that speaker pelosi has decided to focus impeachment solely on the ukraine issue, we already have an admission from the defendant. he admitted he put pressure to provide dirt on his political

opponent. he openly admitted that. that's also noted in the notes of the conversation and is consistent with the whistle blower's report. we know that he worked to review a legitimate ambassador to facilitate that illegal activity, and we know he's been noncompliant with subpoenas. that's already three counts in the articles of impeachment. i'm not sure there's much left to develop. this is not the trial, this is just the indictment stage on the house side. >> let me ask you, too, just given the nature of who is signing this letter, backgrounds on the conservative side, the republican side, the hope here -- correct me if i'm wrong, but the hope here is you are reaching specifically republicans in congress? >> we hope they'll listen to us and we hope the american people will listen. i've been disappointed with the number of house lawyers who i used to admire, frankly.

although i'll draw a sharp contrast in that it's appropriate for senate republicans because their role as a juror in essentially the trial phase of impeachment is important. but the house members need to get involved here because i think the judgment of history has already begun. >> he also spoke out yesterday about white house efforts to block the impeachment inquiry specifically that 8-page letter from the white house explaining why they're not willing to cooperate. >> this was trash. i mean this was trash. basically the thrust of it is that there are some kind of constitutional obligations that the house has failed to meet that therefore render this impeachment inquiry illegitimate and unconstitutional which is nonsense because all the constitution says is that the

house has the sole power of impeachment. >> greg, you tweeted the white house letter was, quote, bananas. you wrote no member of congress should anticipate it no matter his or her view on the matter of pelosi, schiff or trump. i think you said you don't consider your position on this anti-trump, you consider this pro-separation of powers. it sounds like your trying to make the institutional case for this process. in the age of political polarization that we live in where you look at trump's standing with republican voters and it seems to guide how republican politicians approach him, does the institutional case hold any weight? >> yeah, the way our politics have gone, it's harder and harder to make that case. and we've certainly seen not just with this administration, but in past administrations members of congress are increasingly inclieped to support the members of their party even when that president commits misdoings, even when

that president exceeds his constitutional authority. we need a congress to stand up for its own power, a congress to think to the future. you know, i would ask republicans in congress to consider the fact that we had a democratic president just a few years ago, we will have another democratic president in the future, and they're going to want those powers that this white house letter so casually dismisses and tries to claim an executive branch veto of oversight, and investigation funks of congress. and congress needs to think longer i think institutionally. it's very important congress has those powers in order to do its job. >> are yyou're familiar with ho political process works. what is your sense for how long it would take republicans to publicly say what you're saying? >> to publicly argue for the power of congress i don't know, i'd like to hear more of them say that. i don't think there's a big risk in that. i think republicans should feel

comfortable saying they have not heard the case made for impeachment much less removal for the president yet, but they reflect the powers of the constitution and congress and they want to hear the facts. they want the white house to testify and explain what happened around these series of events. >> thank you both for joining us. and up next president trump is getting ready for that rally in minnesota. it's a state he says he can flip to his side in 2020. well, can he? can minnesota go from blue to red? i'm going to head over to the big board and take a look at the numbers. you're watching "hardball." looe numbers. you're watching "hardball. hmm. exactly.

liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

asbut when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls... you can never seem to get anywhere. that's why dell technologies created unified workspace, powered by vmware. ♪ a revolutionary solution that lets you deploy, manage, support and secure all your devices from the cloud. so you can stop going in circles, and start moving forward.

a state that i'm going to win, minnesota. i almost won it last time. we came within just about a point because minnesota is very hard work for a republican. we almost won it one more -- i

wanted to go there one more time. i said i'm telling you we're going to win minnesota. >> welcome back to "hardball." he calls it the one that got away in 2016. the donald trump here and there talking about minnesota. of course he's on his way to minnesota right now. the first rally since the start of the impeachment probe. the president says his campaign believes if there's a blue state he can flip in 2020 and add to his column is minnesota. remember look trump flipped pennsylvania, he flipped michigan, flipped wisconsin. he did not succeed ipflipping minnesota, but as he mentioned there this is what it looked like. he certainly came closer than a lot of people expected. the margin was inside of 2 points. so certainly in 2016 trump came very close to picking up ten more electoral votes from the state. and if he were able to flip minnesota in 2020 that could have a significant impact on the electoral college maps.

let me take you through. first of all, when republicans and the trump campaign look at minnesota, why do they think there's opportunity there? remember obama won this state by 8 points back in 2012. it closed inside of 2 with trump, so it moved towards trump between 12 and 16. the other thing republicans see, though, is this. the 2018 mid-terms you remember i was standing at this board election night and it was one district after another going from red to blue, flipping for the democrats. you had something in minnesota, you barely had anywhere else on the map in 2018. two districts, two congressional districts that went from blue to red. both of these districts were represented by democrats in congress. republicans managed to win them. this is the iron range, they call it. you're talking about districts with a lot of rural, blue collar white working class to them. these are the areas filled with the types of voters

demographically trump has done best with. and that trump effect was very much in effect in the 2018 mid-terms. republicans were getting slaughtered everywhere, not in these parts of minnesota. so that's the opportunity trump and his campaign seek. the story is little more complicated than that, though, because look at this there were also two districts last year that went from red to blue in minnesota. these were republican districts heading into 2018, and the democrats managed to flip both of them. and you can see here you don't see the label but you're talking about basically getting into the twin city suburbs here, the metro area. minneapolis, st. paul. and you're talking demographicically there the types of voters that have been going away from trump's republican party and towards the democrats. yeah, sure, republicans were able to make gains in rural parts of minnesota. but those gains will be more than offset pie the trump era democratic gains in the suburbs,

in the metro area where by the way the population is growing. so you've got the story of two americas incapsulated there in minnesota. by the way, minnesota has voted for one republican presidential candidate. nixon in '72. otherwise all democratic of course in '84 mondale from minnesota was the democratic nominee. anyway, a little bit about minnesota the president there tonight will be talking about it in 2020. up next while republicans seem almost in lock step with the president on impeachment, trump is facing a growing chorus of opposition on his own side on syria. you're watching "hardball." own syria. you're watching "hardball. or other child. or their new friend. or your giant nephews and their giant dad. or a horse. or a horse's brother, for that matter.

the room for eight, 9,000 lb towing ford expedition. was in an accident. when i called usaa, it was that voice asking me, "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. we're the rivera family and we plan to be with usaa for life. see how much you can save with usaa insurance. see how much you can save be right back. with moderate to severe crohn's disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? i hope so. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,

and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible.

it's how we care for our patients- like job. his team at ctca treated his cancer and side effects. so job can stay strong for his family. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. cancer treatment centers of america. through the at&t network, edge-to-edge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. from finding out what's selling best... to managing your fleet... to collaborating remotely with your teams.

giving you a nice big edge over your competition. that's the power of edge-to-edge intelligence. the president has abandoned the people who helped us destroy isis. chaos is unfolding. this is worse than what obama did. when obama left iraq all hell broke loose. and if you think, mr. president, isis is only a threat to europe you really don't understand isis. isis is wanting to come after all of us. >> that was senator lindsey graham slamming president trump earlier today in south carolina. graham leads a diverse caucus of bipartisan critics which includes texas senator ted cruz and christian televangilist pat

robinson. despite the appeals trump is standing by his decision. >> we have no soldiers in syria. we won, we beat isis. we beat them badly and decisively. we have no soldiers. the last thing i want to do is bring thousands and thousands of soldiers in and defeat everybody again. >> "the washington post" notes that president trump, quote, is cleaving his political coalition at the very moment. he's trying to fortify his standing to survive the intensifying impeachment. three trump advisers tell "the post" mick mulvaney the acting chief of staff, quote, is planning to help trump begin a quiet charm offensive hosting private dinners, meetings and gatherings. for more i'm joined by the senior director of progressive programming for sirius km.

is that going to have any affect on policy? >> i'm going to propose something here which is that in a weird way this helps trump with republican senators on impeachment. here's why. they can say, you know, i'm not with the president on everything. i'm really upset about this thing in syria with the kurds, i'm an independent thinker. he's done the wrong thing here, but i'll tell you right now it's not the right to impeach him on this ukraine thing. >> this becomes the outlet for pressing -- >> in other words, they're given some things. it's not that they wanted -- this is thought through. this gives them a thing to say to prove that they are not

simply, you know, slavishly following him down the road even though pretty much they will be. >> the other school of thought on it this becomes the breaking point with trump. >> i've been critical with republicans for not breaking with the president sooner. there have been plenty of opportunities. charlottesville was probably the most obvious one in his tenure. and it it shows they obviously can criticize the president, but they still refuse to answer the simple question about whether it's appropriate for a foreign government to interfere in an election, whether or not the president asking foreign government to do so is appropriate. they cannot answer that simple question. so while i think it's perhaps -- yeah, they can take one silver lining, piece of silver lining from the fact they can say, yes, i broke with him on the question of syria. but i think that both of these issues deal with trump betraying the interests of either our allies and betraying our allies and also the country.

because interference in our election undermines our democracy and it flies in the face of every single citizen who is putting their faith into a system that people have literally died to protect. >> i want to follow up on what you say. it's the first time i've heard that and it's an interesting thought. you're not saying this was a grand strategy. this becomes a by-product of -- >> i don't think there is a grand strategy. >> and i believe that everybody who is expressing outrage about the syrian decision is on the level and is doing so out of conviction. i'm saying that there was a bizarre way in which this helps them deal with the impeachment question which sort of goes certainly to this point which is people say what on earth can he do that you are not going to apologize for or figure out some way to evade? and this gives them something to say i'm not evading this, this

is terrible, this is absolutely terrible -- and you had lindsey graham say this is worse than obama. when has a republican said that anything that trump has done is worse than obama? that's a pretty serious thing for him to have said. but when he says that and then a week later says i'm not impeaching him over ukraine, he then has this slight plausible -- >> it's interesting. you say this gives them a way to say, hey, look, i'm not always rubber stamping things he says. >> yes, but it is a serious thing. we're talking about civilian casualties today. we're talking about the fact the american government or donald trump has really made a decision because even his defense department is like what are you doing. donald trump has made a decision resulting in the deaths of civilians and that's what we're learning about today so it's a more serious situation than simply the question of ukraine and talking about life and death. and we don't know whether or not he's making this decision

because of his personal financial interests which has been always the underlying question since the beginning of this presidency which is why this is national security crisis that we are living through and we still don't necessarily know how to handle it appropriately. i'm glad to see republicans break with him but i want them to take this a lot more seriously because donald trump has the nuclear launch codes. and if we're questioning whether or not whether he's doing it in the best interest of his country versus the best interest of his bank account, that is terrifying reality to live in. >> fair enough. i don't think we need to go to the nuclear codes. >> that is the real world we're living in. >> the problem is if you go there you're taking things -- >> that's not a fact. >> of course he has the nuclear codes -- whether not he pulled a few -- you know, he pulled a few score americans out of a position in syria where it was -- yes, it was incredibly --

this was an incredibly low cost high delivery policy. that is we didn't have many men there, they're there, they're preventing a civil war between the kurds and the turks. and the kurds are keeping these isis fighters in prison and away from causing any peril. and in a world in which trump has no particular -- anyway, a world in which trump won't make a big policy shift, this was an easy dpo for that he just pulled away. >> thank you both for joining us. up next, the history of rudy giuliani. you're watching "hardball." giuliani you're watching "haraldbl. you ever wish you weren't a motaur? sure. sometimes i wish i had legs like you. yeah, like a regular person. no. still half bike/half man, just the opposite. oh, so the legs on the bottom and motorcycle on the top?

yeah. yeah, i could see that. for those who were born to ride, there's progressive. yeah, i could see that. it's what gives audible themembers an edge.listening; it opens our minds, changes our perspective, connects us, and pushes us further. the most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories: audible. goldi knows to never compromise. too shabby! too much! too perfect! i can rent this? for that price? absolutely. what is this, some kind of fairy tale?

it's just right! book your just right rental at thrifty.com. oh! baby bear! before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? (vo) cascade platinum does the work for you. prewashing and removing stuck-on foods, the first time. (mom) wow! that's clean! (vo) cascade platinum. at outback, steak & oh no, it's gone.ck. phew, it's back with lobster mac & cheese. it's gone again. oh, it's back with shrimp now! steak & lobster starting at only $15.99. hurry in before these three are gone again. outback steakhouse. i'm happy to give you the tour, i lohey jay. it. jay? charlotte! oh hi. he helped me set up my watch lists. oh, he's terrific. excellent tennis player. bye-bye. i recognize that voice. annie? yeah! she helped me find the right bonds for my income strategy. you're very popular around here. there's a birthday going on. karl! he took care of my 401k rollover. wow, you call a lot. yeah, well it's my money we're talking about here.

joining us for karaoke later? ah, i'd love to, but people get really emotional when i sing. help from a team that will exceed your expectations. ♪ hey. ♪hey. you must be steven's phone. now you can take control of your home wifi

and get a notification the instant someone new joins your network... only with xfinity xfi. download the xfi app today. earlier this year rudy giuliani mused about what his final legacy might be. i am afraid it might be on my gravestone he said. he said rudy giuliani, he lied for trump. jewel connie said it would be an undeserved epitaph, but he also said if it is, so what, i don't care, i'll pea dead. i think i can explain it to st. peter. thought gnat long ago giuliani's legacy secured for all-time. he was the mayor of new york city when it was attacked, when this whole country was attacked on september 11, 2001. anyone my age or older remembers that terrible day. there was fear, panic,

uncertainty and it was that rudy giuliani in those days and hours after the attacks who was front and center in a moment where every american desperate for a leader to show them the way. rudy giuliani was keddy, confident and determined to see his city through and see all of us through. he became america's mayor and the acclaim was universal from democrats, from republicans, from the media even from the famously liberal entertainment world. everyone was looking to get back to normal after 9/11, but no one quite knew how. when "saturday night live" returned to the air it was only with an on-air blessing from giuliani himself. adding, giuliani's performance ensures he will be remembered as the greatest mayor in the city's history. a poll from nbc news and wall street journal asked americans back then what they thought about rudy. 84% had a positive view, his negative score just 2%. rudy tried a few years later to

parlay this into the presidency, but it didn't work. still his role in those dark days in 2001 seemed to forever define him no matter what. now, it's fair to look at the last two years and wonder if he managed to rewrite his own legacy. personal lawyer to a president whose actions have been central to an investigation that may lead to a president's impeachment. we don't know how yet how the trump story will end, where but giuliani's own story is how dramatically reputations can change. the day before 9/11 his popularity was fading in new york and he was helping into popularity oblivion and now all these years later it may pea changing again. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> they were arrested as they were about to board an international flight with one

way tickets. and i want to add this investigation is continuing. >> two men working with rudy giuliani to manufacture dirt on the president's political opponents and arrested trying to flee the country. >> maybe i'll ask rudy to say a few words. >> tonight what we know about the two men. is rudy giuliani now under investigation? and what did the president know and when did he know it? >> what conversations have