was for finally everyone to hear the truth. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline," i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning. i'm dara brown, msnbc world headquarters in new york, 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west, here is what is happening. breaking news this morning. yet another white house exit, spelled out in a tweet, what's behind this big and unexpected departure? >> soundsing the alarm. marathon testimony from the former ambassador to ukraine, her account under u.s. foreign policy under president trump. >> plus -- >> your personal attorney -- >> i don't know. i haven't spoken to rudy. i spoke to him yesterday reefl. he is a very good attorney. he has been my attorney, yes. >> new questions about whether

the president's attorney is in legal hot water and what that means for the impeachment inquiry. >> breaking news. yet another trump administration staff shakeup. the president announcing on twitter that acting homeland security secretary kevin mcaleenan has resigned. quote we have worked well together with border crossings being way down, kevin now after many years in government wants to spend more time with his family. the president says he will announce a new acting secretary next week. meanwhile, today marks day 19 of the impeachment inquiry, into president trump. democrats looking ahead to a busy week of depositions and deadlines. this, after a wild week full of rapid developments. wrapping up with closed door testimony from former u.s. ambassador to ukraine marie, and what a nine hours of testimony, she told house lawmakers that president trump had personally pressured the state department to remove her over unfounded and false claims. one democratic lawmaker

described the testimony as very compelling and very convincing. >> ambassador ivanovich in a gripping and emotional account of presidential abuse of power, and this is a good person who served for more than 30 years in the foreign service, who was thrown to the wolves by mr. giuliani, who was representing the financial interests of his now indicted associates, and by president trump, who is advancing his political interests in trying to get an investigation started in ukraine of the bidens. >> president trump taking the stage at a campaign rally for his second night in a row. this one in lake charles, louisiana. once again, tearing into the impeachment inquiry. >> the radical democrats policies are crazy, their politicians are corrupt, their candidates are terrible, and they know they can't win on election day so they're pursuing an illegal invalid and unconstitutional bull [ bleep

] impeachment. >> to the white house and nbc's hans nichols. what is the mood there following the testimony? >> i expect tired because everyone got back late last night and the president using salty language down there on the bayou. before the president left yesterday though, he almost seemed to have kind words for the ambassador, that by her own account, in that opening statement that msnbc obtained, in her own account, she was dismissed at the behest of president trump because, and even though she was told she was doing nothing wrong but then halle jackson pressed on the president on why he pressed his associates to dismiss her. listen to his answer. >> did you pressure them -- >> a wonderful woman. i don't know her. she may very much be a wonderful woman. if you remember the phone call i

had with the president, the new president, he didn't speak favorably, i just don't know her, she may be a wonderful woman. >> and you know, so you have from the president there is not quite an acknowledgment that he was behind it, but he did acknowledge that there was tension between the new president of ukraine, mr. zelenski and the u.s. ambassador, and the president suggesting that he was siding with the president of ukraine, not his own diplomat. now, that's something that tracks with what we know maria said in the committee in the opening statement talking about how the president was howling out the state department, and it was being hollowed out from the inside, this notion of siding with outsiders and taking advice from giuliani and the two associates that were indicted this week, taking their advice, over your own diplomatic corps, and that's i suspect what we will find out more in her conversations and her depositions as we get readouts of what happened inside that room. >> hans nichols live at the

white house, thank you very much. joining me are two national political reporter, daniel strauss with "politico" and nbc news own jonathan allen. good morning to you both. and jonathan, one question on kevin mcaleenan, any conventional wisdom whether he is actually leaving on his own or whether he is being pushed. >> good morning, dara. i think it is a combination of both in this case. you've got the head of homeland security there who has been speaking publicly about his frustrations, his inability to control a lot of what's going on, coming out of the white house, a lot of what is going on in terms of the tone and messaging, he spoke to the "washington post" within the last two weeks, about that very topic, and so clearly, he was somebody who wanted to leave this post, and i don't think the president wants a whole lot more people exiting, and at the same time, sort of forced out, everybody who has been involved in homeland security, has made, with steven miller, everybody's involved in immigration policy,

whose name isn't steven miller, he of course, steven miller being the close adviser to the president, in the white house, has been pushed out of the administration either through firing or through their own resignation out of abject frustration over the fact that they can't get any sort of hold on policy. >> interesting. daniel, i want to turn to part of marie's testimony here, and quote, our efforts were intended and evidently succeeded in thwarting corrupt interests in ukraine who fought back by selling baseless conspiracy theories to anyone who would listen. sadly someone was listening and our nation is the worst off for that. >> what is the most explosive revelation has she made? and how big, how is that being received by democrats and republicans? >> i mean look, the big, the big i guess the biggest part of this was that she alleged that president trump and his administration actively pushed her out. and that has to do, the

implication being that this has to do with rudy giuliani and his business dealings in ukraine. look, this really doesn't help the administration's case right now, that nothing was below board, nothing was wrong, with how the trump administration was talking with the ukraine government. >> jonathan, adding to daniel's comments there, how is the bigger impeachment inquiry, how is this picture, how critical is ivan vich's testimony here? >> what we're getting here is details around the larger picture the democrats are making that the president abused his policy to pursue a political opponent and involve a foreign government, involve foreign actors in participating in and interfering in the 2020 u.s. election. everything else that comes from that is basically exhibits a through whatever letter house democrats are able to produce in these interviews. we will eventually see some form

of transcript, some form of information out of the details of these hours and hours of testimony, that we got from the former ambassador this was held in a secure facility. so obviously the press didn't have access to the details of what she said. if she had in fact said something that was helpful to the president, i am sure his defenders would have been out as they often have been at the microphone, talking about how she had exonerated him. we didn't see any of that yesterday. what they were told behind closed doors was clearly something that was very difficult for the president, something that was not going to be helpful to his case, and over the course of the next several of weeks and the next several months we will hear a lot of details, they are all going to point back to the case the democrats are trying to make, or they will refute the case that democrats are trying to make, but it is again the sort of larger scheme that we've seen unfold, which is the president, and rudy giuliani, and ukrainian businessmen, trying to dig up some dirt on joe biden. and the question is going to be

whether that's an impeachable offense and the only people who pass judgment on that ra members of the house of representatives and whether the house decides that is an impeachable offense and the senate decides to remove the president of the united states? >> daniel, we heard a lot from the president of the united states this week and a wednesday event, there were quite a few moments to give pause. let's take a listen. >> did any of the white house officials express any concern to you -- >> no. >> or speak to you about that phone call. >> it's all a big con. don't you understand? look, the phone call, you have it. it's the transcript. when you see all of the elements, when you see that schiff saw the whistle-blower, when you see what the whistle-blower said about the phone call, and it was totally different, he made it up, and i don't know why a person that defrauds the american public should be protected. okay? >> if the full house voted -- >> would you cooperate.

>> we would if they give us our rights. just so you understand, the kurds are fighting for their land and somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn't help us in the second world war, they didn't help us with normandy as an example. >> the kurds helped the u.s. defeat isis and by allowing this offensive, is it going to be more difficult in future times of need to develop alliances? >> no, it won't be. it won't be at all. alliances are very easy. but you know, alliances have taken advantage of us. the kurds are fighting for their land. just so you understand. they're fighting for their land. and as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn't help us in the second world war, they didn't help us with normandy, as an example. they mentioned names of different battles. >> daniel, we heard the president there. so what was the general take-away after that event and how much is all of this in response to that impeachment inquiry? >> look, i mean he was, there was definite surprise and

criticism from both republicans and democrats about the president's decision to pull troops out of syria. and essentially with great surprise to kurdish forces there. there is a fear in washington right now that this will reflect poorly on the united states, and make american allies skeptical about how serious the united states is to holding up those alliances. i am still a little confused about the president's rationale for pulling out, pulling troops out, but he's always promised to withdraw u.s. forces from unnecessary wars, so i guess this is, this falls into that category for him. >> i think that is pretty widespread there. jonathan, if you could assess the most unusual moments from that in your mind? and do white house insiders know what to expect any more with

these? >> i'm pausing there, because it's all unusual. i'm not sure how to assess the most unusual moments from public remarks of the president these days, or how to assess most unusual decisions he's making in foreign policy, with regard to the kurds. basically, everybody who's every been involved in american foreign policy says that this was a terrible mistake on his part. there is almost no one who is supporting him, you can find perhaps senator rand paul of kentucky, maybe one or two other lawmakers, who think that this was a good idea, largely because they don't believe in american foreign policy projection at all. and yet, to the point, at the same time, the united states is promising soldiers, armed forces to saudi arabia. i think that the president has yet to state any real rationale for getting out of the area.

there are reports that u.s. forces may actually be either unintentionally or intentionally in harm's way now, because of the turkish offensive, in the region there. you know, i think, it would be difficult for any president to try to explain to the american public why american soldiers were left in harm's way, if that's the case, and particularly difficult for a president who has spoken so often about how important people's need of the military is and how much he believes the military is priority one for him. this is really something that is inexplicable to i think most foreign policy experts and something that may in fact, have a rationale that comes out later. >> and no doubt we will be hearing more about that. daniel, here's the president last week, suggesting the gop won't abandon him on impeachment. listen. >> it will get it to the senate and we are going to win, the

republicans have been very unified. this is the greatest witch hunt in the history of our country. >> this was last friday. when president trump, would president trump be able to say the same thing today one week later? >> right now, it seems that way, although we're starting to see cracks amid the republican caucus, mitt romney has expressed support for an impeachment inquiry. and really, outside of washington, too, three new england governors who are some of the most popular governors in the country, and definitely the most popular among republicans, have all expressed support for an impeachment inquiry. not necessarily removing the president from office. but the math is not on democrats' side in the senate. there are just too many republicans they would need to get the two-thirds majority support right now, and it's hard for me to really see that changing any time soon. >> daniel and jonathan, i still want it talk to you about the battle over trump's taxes so please stay right there.

the president's attorney rudy giuliani, a new report on whether he could be indicted and how that might play into the impeachment inquiry. a legal look, next. ood. i'm allergic to all things green. (mom sighs) ♪ ♪ kraft. for the win win. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

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again, i don't know how he knows these people. okay, well, then they're clients. he's got a lot of clients. so i just don't know. i haven't spoken to rudy about it. i don't know. i will say this. from what i heard, i just heard about this, they said we have

nothing to do with it. we're totally, we have nothing to do with it. >> president trump there, saying he hopes his personal attorney rudy giuliani did not get indicted on criminal charges, after his clients were arrested this week, and charged with conspiring to violate campaign finance laws. and "the new york times" is now reporting giuliani who told nbc he's unaware of any probe is under federal investigation to determine whether he violated lobbying laws. joining me now is melissa, professor of law at nyu law school, and katie phang, msnbc legal contributor and trial lawyer. great to have you here this morning. katie, how serious of a charge could this be? could this be a second attorney for the president get indicted? >> doesn't this smack of exactly what happened with the michael cohen situation, when it really got down and dirty, donald trump, you know, said, in i have no knowledge of what is going on, michael cohen, who is that, that is not really my lawyer. giuliani has a serious problem right now.

this is a continuing investigation, according to the southern district of new york, dara, and because of that, i would be exceptionally nervous that donald trump is now appearing to cutting ties with rudy giuliani, if i was giuliani himself, and giuliani also has ties to victoria tendin and joe degenava who rez donald trump and there is a big tentacle kind of web of deceit that is going on here, but the bottom line is this, giuliani is looking at federal offenses and if parnas and fruman start talking, who knows whether or not giuliani will ultimately be indicted by the feds. >> and melissa, giuliani is not named in the indictment and he told msnbc news that he is unaware of the investigation and the activity, and wouldn't be aware if he was the subject of an investigation at this point? >> she be aware by now. the fact that his partners were arrested at dulles wednesday hours after having lunch with him should have been the first tip-off. but this is certainly a

situation where giuliani if he hasn't lawyered up should start lauering up now. >> and the article saying giuliani says prosecutors have quote no grounds to charge him on foreign lobbying disclosure violations because he thought he was acting on behalf of mr. trump. should giuliani be worried? and if he was acting on behalf of his client, are there really no grounds to charge him? >> the law in question here says that american citizens have to notify the federal government if they represent or have contact with the media or foreign officials and make contact with them and whether they're compensated or not for that contact. so the defense here seems to be my client wasn't a foreign agent but rather was the president of the united states. i think the real question here is whether or not his representation of mr. trump can be disentangled from any contact with the foreign government. and is so that will be the real question. and that's the point of the federal investigation. >> katie, barbara mcquaid and frank last night, suggested why

giuliani may cooperate with prosecutors, and possibly flip on the president. let's take a listen. >> we could see at some point rudy giuliani throwing president trump under the bus. he said today he was acting with authority of the president of the united states. he's going to have an opportunity, if he is charged, to flip, and tell what he knows. >> when rudy opens his mouth, he may have defended himself against the further charge today with mike, but he certainly threw trump under the bus by saying yes, i was working at the direction of the president of the united states. >> how damming could it be for the president if giuliani does cooperate? >> giuliani has always been a live wire for donald trump and as you know he has been paraded out as a serious trump surrogate for many of the talk shows and to be a front line of defense and maybe a legal defense for donald trump. however if rudy giuliani is smart, we flip and he would be able to deliver donald trump. you know, donald trump is going to hide behind things like attorney-client bridge b

attorney-client, privilege but the bottom line is the crime fraud exception, we talked about it with michael cohen, that crime fraud exception will basically destroy, eviscerate any attorney-client privilege that could be claimed by donald trump. so rudy giuliani, if you think about it, we will be talking about the parnas and fruman level and have them flip maybe against rudy giuliani and then rudy giuliani, confronted by the very own u.s. attorney's office that he used to run, says to him, look, man, the time is up, either you stay or you do the time, rudy will probably say you know what, i'm not going down for donald trump who claims doesn't know that he is still the client of mine. and so i do think it is a very real visceral threat to donald trump. >> and melissa, one of the "new york times" reporters who broke the story said that giuliani is in hot water partly because of his own admissions on tv. the president has made some admissions as well, constitutionally. can he never face prosecution? >> well, so there is a lot of distraction with the mueller report about whether a sitting president can be indicted for a particular crime, and mr. mueller acting on the authority

of a memo, written by the office of the legal counsel said that a sitting president could not be indicted but there was another process available to congress and that of course is impeachment. that doesn't mean that the president cannot be indicted later for his crimes. the question of course is whether the statute of limitations on those crimes is holding as he is a sitting president. it doesn't mean the president is above the law. there is a possibility of further criminal prosecution and indictment after the presidency ends. >> and katie, what are the consequences that the president exceeded his authority here? >> well, the consequences are criminal in nature and as melissa just noted, that olc member has recently been challenged by a federal court judge, who said no one is above the law, that is an olc member, it has never been tested, really in the court system, and mueller had his directives and he actually was limited in terms of what he could do, but now, there are federal and state investigations that are going after donald trump, and his conduct, and it runs the gamut from campaign finance violations

to perhaps foreign violations, in terms of whether or not money was coming in from foreign country, being funneled into the united states campaign. and so i don't think that this is the end. i think it is actually the beginning. as you can see, the mess gets bigger and bigger. it is not just narrowly what this investigation is revealing. >> certainly a lot to entangle here. thanks. and if you stick around for the next hour we will talk about whether we are facing a constitutional crisis. breaking news from syria, when u.s. special forces come under artillery fire, and turkey may be to blame. how could that happen? a live report up next. ♪ ♪

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now to the morning headlines. breaking overnight. fast-moving fires in southern california drive thousands from their homes. fire officials say flames burning north of los angeles destroyed at least 31 homes, prompting evacuations, and closing several freeways. many residents scrambled to escape. it just happened so fast. like it just all of a sudden just like, you know, turned to flames. >> one death and one firefighter injury is being blamed on the fire a state of emergency has been declared. residents in north dakota are being told to stay home in

this morning, with a blizzard packing heavy rain creating whiteout conditions pounds the area. the national weather service predicts when it is all over, snowfall accumulations might be between one to three feet, with wind gusts up to 60 miles an hour. leaving to zero visibility. snow travel alert is in effect throughout today. >> and the trade war with china, president trump announced a partial trade agreement, and imports with dramatically raising purchases of u.s. farm products, it is not done yet, and one of the sticking points is the china theft of int elect ule property and the president says an agreement could be signed as soon as next month. now to breaking news, more bombs are dropping near the syria turkey border after u.s. troops came under artillery fire last night.

>> this is the fourth day turkish military bombing towns occupied by kurds in northeastern syria. war monitors report more than 100 people have been killed so far, including 17 civilians. and the turkish president says the offensive will not stop in spite of u.s. efforts to get him to negotiate. nbc's bill neely is near the turkey syria border. first, keir, the army is launching artillery fire aimed at kurdish fighters in syria. what's the latest from there? >> reporter: well, dara, we have watched that turkish artillery pounding those kurdish, mainly kurdish positions in syria, over recent days. so this news, that perhaps, and it's not for sure, that turkish artillery hit a location close to u.s. troops, is not surprising, keep in mind, that u.s. troops and kurdish militia

have been working closely over many years. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff though visiting, complaining that the turkish side knows very well exactly where they are. take a listen. >> the turkish military is fully aware, down to explicit grid coordinate detail, of the locations of the u.s. forces. and we have been in coordination with them through the cent come and my level, all levels of the chain of command, coordinating with the turks, to make sure that they know exactly where american forces are. and everyone has been told. >> reporter: of course, had a turkish artillery actually hit u.s. forces, that just illustrates how dangerous the situation is, and of course, that this is a war zone, so we

are hearing reports today that the crucial town here has been taken by the turkish military, but other independent reports suggesting that maybe there is still fighting. a key road through syria, through what has been the kurdish held area of syria, it has effectively been taken by turkey, but now reports again that parts of that road have been taken back. so it is a very fragile situation. and this just illustrates that while u.s. forces have pulled back, they are still present and it is just one of the risks of the ongoing conflict. >> keir simmons, thank you. now to bill neely, chief correspondent joining us, and there is growing concern about the fate of isis prisoners being detained by the kurds and in the u.s., about the scope of this turkish operation. how deep are those worries? >> reporter: they're very deep, dara. one of the great fears about this invasion right from the beginning was that the kurds would stop taking on isis, and indeed that isis would reform,

partly through prison escape, and it is quite clear, that both of those things are happening, all joint patrols, between u.s. special forces, and kurds, in and around that area, have now stopped. and yesterday, five isis prisoners escaped from one prison, after it was hit by mortar fire. it was one of three prisons hit by mortar, or artillery fire. there are about 1500 isis prisoners in that border area, and the kurds say that they already stopped two other prison breaks. so clearly, the kurds have made it absolutely clear, they have, their first priority, is repelling the turkish invasion, not guarding prisoners, and that came up in a phone call yesterday, between a the french president emanuel macron and president trump. mr. macron making absolutely clear his priority, and france's priority, first of all, was to

stop isis resurging. of course, france has been the victim of isis-inspired, al qaeda-inspired attacks for many, many years now. and it is also clear that u.s. officials are putting more pressure on turkey. you heard from keir's report there that the chairman of joint chiefs of staff, on the military side, treasury secretary steve mnuchin, saying we can shut down the turkish economy, if we want to, and he's responding to clear calls from congress for sanctions. and also, u.s. officials putting pressure on turkey, not to go beyond this 20 mile deep limit, that it has announced. but turkey's president erdogan is defiant. he said we will not stop, no matter what anyone says. and militarily, speed is their best ally. now, they're trying to keep up the momentum, so that the turkish force does not dig in, and before any great

international backlash. but on the fourth day of fighting, the heavy fighting continues, and the u.n. says 100,000 people have now fled, the turk irk defense forces, now saying 415 so-called militants are being killed, we can't independently confirm that figure, but it's quite clear, the heavy fighting continues. dara? >> bill neely, thank you, bill. now to new developments from central hong kong and hundreds of mass protesters assembling to support students arrested in anti-government tdemonstrations and to protest recent police brutality. let's go to nbc's kelly cobiella and these protests are spilling into politics and pop culture. what's going on? >> reporter: that's right, and the most high profile example i guess is the nba, we've been talking about it all week long, the fact that the nba has been

caught up in this conflict, between supporting free speech, and actually supporting its business interests which is massive in china. there were more protests today. in the meantime, just across the border, not far from here, in shenzen china, an exhibition game for the nba is about to tip off, in just about a half an hour. there have been calls for boycotts of this game in china. it is essentially blacked out in that country. chinese state media refusing to show it. it is not being shown online. and that's because of this tweet by houston rockets general manager darryl morey a week ago yesterday voicing support for the hong kong protesters, that enraged china, chinese businesses started cutting ties with the nba, with the houston rockets, and the nba at first trying to, with damage control, trying to apologize for the tweet, and then defending mor x

morey's right to free speech and just yesterday, the nba decided to put a lid on all of it and decided not to hold any more press conferences in china because of this, saying in a statement that players have been placed into a complicated and unprecedented situation, while abroad, and we feel it would be unfair to ask them to address these matters in realtime. and it's not just the nba being caught up in this conflict, and a number of businesses, including apple, tiffany, the shoe maker van, apple had to pull an app yesterday because china said that this app was allowing protesters to track police in real time. tiffany pulled an ad because china complained it was a reference to a protester who was injured in the eye, in august, tiffany said the ad was shot back in may before the protests even started but nonetheless, that ad was pulled. and just a number of business

interests, american companies, having to readdress their strategies in china, and some say cowtow to the chinese authorities to continue to do business there. >> thank you, kelly. as you can see in the courts for president trump, it brings democrats one step closer to seeing his tax returns. >> and what happens if the case ends up reaching the supreme court? court? performance comes in lots of flavors. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. even a- (ernie) lost rubber duckie? (burke) you mean this one?

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now to a big court defeat for the president in the battle over keeping his taxes secret. the federal appeals court ruled friday that trump's accountant must hand over financial records subpoenaed by the house oversight and reform committee. let's bring back nbc's jonathan allen and "politico"'s daniel strauss, and a 2-1 ruling in the court of appeals saying the accounting firm must comply with the committee's request. jonathan, how much closer are democrats to getting their hands on the president's financial records? >> they're a little bit closer. it's certainly not a decided matter. the president still has a final court of appeals, as it, were at the supreme court level, should he choose to take that route. there is no reason to think that he wouldn't continue to try to hold back those tax returns. yet at this point, dara, there are so many of these cases moving forward, the president has a bigger, broader problem, which is he's basically going to have to get the supreme court to

take cases, number one, and a series of case, number two, in which he has basically issued a blanket refusal to comply with anything congress has asked for. he is going to have to get a third branch of government to weigh into the second, you know, the first and second with each other, over their powers and the supreme court has been extremely reluctant to do ta in the past. they try not to do that and if there are lower court rulings, there is a good possibility the supreme court won't weigh in, and if it does weigh in, it is hard to see that they're going to side with the white house that has basically said congress is completely illegitimate. >> and a trump appointed judge was the dissenting opinion, saying the house usurped its authority issuing that subpoena. and does this mean the trump administration has a case? daniel? >> i mean possibly, but the bigger rub here is that deutsche bank, the bank that purportedly said they had trump's tax returns, now say they don't.

which is unusual because that bank usually keeps these tax returns on record. i think right now, what we're looking at is a continuation of the ongoing struggle, democrats have had, to get their hands on these tax returns, and these stubborn positions of president trump and the white house not to release them. >> jonathan, the justice department has even asked judges to block a subpoena. how many more levers does the white house have left to pull to avoid complying with that subpoena? >> in a traditional sense, they don't have a lot more levers to pull. but this president has acted in nontraditional ways before. so we'll see, but interestingly this week, dara, what we've witnessed is a lot of individuals within the government starting to defy the white house, and what it is trying to do, to block congressional subpoenas. we saw the former ambassador from ukraine, testify on capitol hill, despite an attempt by the administration to block her from

doing that. we're going to see next week, the ambassador to the european union, mr. sondland, go testify despite the administration's effort to block him from doing that. basically, the white house counsel's let ther week, saying that nobody should comply with any congressional subpoenas is being thrown out the window and being thrown out the window not only by these officials but their lawyers who recognize that this is ultimately going to be a very losing argument, and if their clients defy congress, their klines are going to be in trouble eventually. >> jonathan allen, daniel strauss, thank you very much for joining us on this saturday morning. great to have you here. and the president's most outlandish claims about the impeachment inquiry and how democrats can refute them. that's up next. them. that's up next sometimes, the pressures of today's world can make it tough

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be a crime to cross our border illegally and it should be a crime to have a totally appropriate casual, beautiful, accurate, phone call with a foreign leader. democrats are on a crusade to destroy our democracy. that's what's happening. >> joining me now is democratic strategist antoine c. wright, former senior adviser to hillary clinton's campaign in south carolina. great to have you here this morning. so how do democrats combat this kind of talk from the president and his supporters? >> first of all i think we acknowledge the fact that donald trump is trying to recreate the same playbook he did in 2016, by going to rallies where in his comfort zone and throwing out right-wing red meat racial rhetoric in order to elicit a response from a certain group of people in this country. we move on to highlight his

failures on policy on most of the things that overwhelmingly the majority of people in this country agree on, and then we pivot to what democrats would do, if we were in charge and we had our hands on the power steering wheel, i think we cannot fall into his trap of making this a personality battle. instead we have to make this a clear-cut policy agenda battle. >> you mentioned they're targeting certain areas. but they're also going after 21 democrats in districts that president trump won in 2016. the trump campaign hoping impeachment will make democrats in these areas more vulnerable. how about that? >> i think the democrats in districts where trump won in '16 and we were able to win in '18 have to recreate what got them to this place. stay focused on the policy that speaks to their constituents. talking about lowering

prescription drug prices, talking about reasonable gun measures, quality of life easterns that majority of american people agree with, by the way, that the u.s. congress, led by democrats, democrats have led on, in the 116th congress. >> antoine, president trump and his allies are pushing for a floor vote on opening the impeachment inquiry. democrats standing behind nancy pelosi's plan to proceed without that vote. which i should add is not required. take a look at president trump is now saying about this. >> the republican party has been treated extremely badly by the democrats. very unfairly. because they have a tiny margin in the house. they have eviscerated the rules. they don't give us any, any fair play. >> nancy pelosi holds a vote on the floor on impeachment and commits to the rules of the previous impeachment proceedings, will you participate? >> if the rules are fair.

>> what are the pros and cons for democrats when it comes to holding that vote? >> it's a repeat distraction tactic by donald trump. i'm old enough to remember what happened when republicans had control of the house of representatives. and how they ran the committee process. and some of the things they did while they were in power. so we have to ignore it. look, pelosi, clyburn have done a magnificent job of being methodical in how we deal with this. highlighting the corruption that continues to overflow from this administration, but also taking their time to make sure we bring in people and gather information and contain to make the case while all the steps seem to line up. i don't think we can get into this back-and-forth battle about donald trump on what democrats are doing or not doing about impeachment. but staying laser focus and providing oversight and checks and balances to the executive branch. if we continue to do that, the american people will see clearly like we saw yesterday with the former ambassador to the ukraine

testifying before congress about how corrupt this president and this administration is. >> real quick, i want to ask you about these new comments coming from president trump's former white house chief strategist steve bannon, let's listen. >> joe biden is totally compromised, his family is compromised. elizabeth warren is going to have a centrist challenger. that will either be michael bloomberg, i think i said on your show, hillary clinton. that's going to be a real primary. i think as you see biden go down. i think it could be a high probability that hillary clinton may be the first thing to challenge. >> antoine on a scale of 1-10. how would you rate this predicti prediction? >> crazy as hell. i think -- good thing this country does not govern themselves by the thought process of steve bannon and his right-wing reckless agenda. i think again democrats can't get focused on what the right-wingers are thinking, otherwise we will sound as crazy as they are. let's stay focused. i think we're going through an intense primary, which i think is good for us as a party.

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i'm dara brown. a great way to start the day, dara. thank you so much. for all of you, breaking news, yet another trump administration staff shake-up. the president announcing on twitter that acting homeland security secretary kevin mcaleenan has resigned, the fourth person to serve in that post. good morning, i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. day 19 into the impeachment inquiry into president trump. democrats looking forward to a busy week of depositions and deadlines. after a wild week full of rapid developments. culminating with alarming testimony from former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch. in more than nine hours behind closed doors, yovanovitch told