impeachment inquiry into the president. we're now just one day away from the start of yet another busy week of depositions and deadlines for the democrats investigative efforts including a big new story detailing what ambassador sondeland might say when he talks on sunday. it's been a very busy 24 hour of developments. here's a look back now at how it all unfolded. >> as of last check rudy giuliani is still the president's personal attorney. giuliani confirming that to nbc news after president trump made imseem like maybe he isn't. >> giuliani is being investigated by the u.s. attorney's office he used to lead. >> mr. sondland is on a list of people who are to be deposed next week along with other people involved. >> if we're going to proceed with impeachment i believe it has to be done before the end of the year. >> we would love to fill in additional blanks but there is

already enough to draft one article of impeachment. the ukraine scandal, there's already enough to draft one but we're not going to basically keep on investigating forever. >> i also think that he is probably the only person within his circle of advisors that still thinks there's a possibility he won't be impeached out of the house. because he doesn't want to go down in the history books as being impeached. >> you think he's going to be impeached? >> yeah, think the house is going to pass articles of impeachment. >> winter is coming. a cold front of news arrived at president trump's doorstep and the question today is what is the white house going to do about it. >> president trump headlines yesterday at hispanola golf course with rudy giuliani. >> i stand behind rudy giuliani, absolutely. >> we have a team of reporters to bring us the latest noose and

analysis on the impeachment crisis and dramatic new developments on the president's pull back in syria. we've got more on what the ambassador to the eu is telling house impeachment committees next week. what can you tell us? >> reporter: ambassador sondland he plans to tell house committees that he doesn't know why the military aid was held up and remember, the military aid is at the center of the quid pro quo conversation that house democrats allege president trump had with his ukranian counter part, mr. zelensky. late last night the "washington post" initially reported this. nbc has confirmed and it's the idea that sondeland will backtrack from what the text messages say and what came out in the volker testimony is that sondland is saying there is no

quid pro quo. at least what we expect him to say is he didn't know if there was a quid pro quo, he just knew that was the president's line and he relied on that in good faith and then communicated that in that case to bill tailor at the time, the senior most diplomat. we still don't know for certain if he will testify. he's indicated that he wants to testify, notwithstanding the state's department's objections. the white house didn't have a lot of authority to prevent yovanovitch to testify. we'll see if the white house is looking into legal mechanisms to prevent these ambassadors from testifying or being deposed. obviously it's a busy week. clearly though, impeachment is on the president's mind and what's he doing? he's going after his opponents. he's singling out adam schiff. have a listen from last night. >> we're going after these

people. these are bad people. i said sue them anyway. he's got immunity. but they can't mean immunity for that. i said, sue them anyway, even if we lose the american public will understand. and sue nancy pelosi or maybe we should just impeach them. >> you know, you get the sense that the president is coming to terms with being impeached. last night he said it's a horrible word. it's a horrible thing almost as though he acknowledges this could be a stain on his historical legacy if the house does go forward. >> joining me now, julia manchester, reporter for the hill and allen smith. with a good sunday morning to you both, let's point a couple of critical points. one being that sondland called trump before responding to taylor's text. it was like four and a half, five hours later and in that

text response he said there was no quid pro quo. then the second point an individual with knowledge, he says sondland didn't doubt the president or he wouldn't reassure taylor. but that source says sondeland had no independent knowledge about whether there was a quid pro quo. ellen, you first, how does this testimony bode for the president? >> well, considering they have held up the response to taylor saying that the president has been crystal clear there is no quid pro quo and now for him to back pedal and say that is what the president said i had no direct knowledge if there was a quid pro kbquo, he also seems t distance hums because of hunter biden's involvement and he is saying that i actually was unaware entirely of any biden connection to that or that that

was really what the president was thinking. he's really trying to distance hums fr himself from the situation when these text messages make it appear he's the most in the know about the what the president wanted with regard to ukraine. >> it soes not a positive development for the president. >> i'm curious about your read on this. for a guy in sondeland, is it plausible to believe that he was unaware of all the pursuit of dirt, if you will on the bidens, hunter specifically but of course to reflect on his father, is it plausible to believe that he did not know what was going on? >> well, that oothe question everyone is asking, alex and i think that's the question that democrats are going to try to get to the bottom of if he does testify later this week. you know, i think this very much shows how, you know, connected he was to this entire situation or this entire, you know, play

of events shows how connected sondland was to the situation but this does show that he is certainly distancing himself and this is him covering for himself and the developments in terms of rudy giuliani and his associates don't play well for the president and so i think you'll see those around the president esenly try to distance themselves. it's also plausible to believe that he had an inchling of what was going on. however, we don't know necessarily what he is going to say when he is pressured by democrats so we'll have to wait and see. >> certainly waiting to see about that. >> so alan, the president, you heard him. he's threatening to sue, he's calling for the impeachment of democratic leaders, you know, nancy pelosi of course, adam schiff. this new article says impeachment has put trump in a different place. he's showing it every day. meaning what? i mean, what does his rhetoric tell us? >> well, this is actually

classic trump. i mean, you go back to one of the first presidential debates in 2016 where hillary clinton accused him of being a puppet for russia and the president's response was no puppet, you're the puppet. so right now when he's facing impeachment it makes sense for the president to go back and say don't impeach me. impeach nancy pelosi, impeach adam schiff. this is a rhetorical strategy the president has employed for years and it's really throwing the charges that he's facing back at people who are throwing the charges at him. >> so last night the president said that speaker pelosi is skipping the floor impeachment vote because she can't get the votes that she needs. what is the latest on the possibility of that happening? is there pressure on the speaker to take this to a floor vote? >> well, i think there is certainly a lot of pressure because i think the idea of a floor vote is what conservatives and president trump are basically saying to delegitimize

this process saying it's not a legitimate process because there hasn't been a vote. so i think there definitely is some pressure on that. however, i think nancy pelosi wants to move at a very slow and steady pace with the impeachment inquiry. remember, she has very much moved at this very cautious pace. she doesn't want to rush into anything. she knows there are certainly political risks involved and lots of potential things that could come up so you're going to see her moving very slow and steady but absolutely there is pressure because conservatives are using it to delegitimize the investigation. let's move to the claims of rudy giuliani. the pair had lunch amid revelations that prosecutors are investigating mr. giuliani for possible lobbying violations so look, it was just friday when the president appeared to be distancing himself from the attorney. so what the is calculation from the president at this point?

>> well t president has been reported in the past, advisors when mayor giuliani has gone on television and not been necessarily helpful to the president, they've tried to separate the two but they know it's not something that's going to necessarily happen. the president holds rudy giuliani in very high regard. he's someone from a 1980s, 1990s circle of powerful people. one of the first things he mentioned he was the gradest mayor in the history of new york city. i know that a lot of people want to make the comparison between rudy giuliani and michael cohen when push came to shove the president did sort of throw under the bus but rudy giuliani made a name for himself aside from president trump. >> and isn't it also the fact that rudy giuliani, i mean, he's

quite vociferous. he will punch back pretty hard so he mirrors the president's style. they're somewhat like minded. isn't that part of it too? >> absolutely. >> they get each over. >> and often times when we see giuliani punching back it is for an audience of one and the president very much likes those appearances even while some around him say they aren't necessarily helpful. the president is appreciative of those performances. it's going to be did i feel to separate the two but -- you kno more stuff could come out related to that. >> but there are some risks because giuliani is linked to those two guys who. >> reporter: indicted so are there political costs for the president being seen paling around with giuliani right now and what are the concerns if he were to turn on giuliani? i mean is giuliani more dangerous being cut loose or staying within the president's circle?

>> yeah, i mean, i think that's what we're all wondering right now. there certainly are political risks if president trump continues to hang around giuliani. there are concerns about giuliani's ties to the administration and how much say he has and a number of affairs in the white house considering he's so close to president trump. so absolutely there are political risks. if president trump cuts him loose, i don't really -- it's hard to say what rudy giuliani will do in that case, but we know that there does seem to be a very tight bond between these two and i don't necessarily think it's the same as the connection between donald trump and michael cohen. i think the ties between president trump and rudy giuliani go much farther back than that and i think rudy giuliani is obviously a much more high profile figure than someone like michael cohen. rudy giuliani used to have a lot of sway there the city of new york and we obviously know that president trump, that's you know, his territory as well. so i don't -- you know, with the

comparison with michael cohen, i don't think it's that clear cut. so you know, i think president trump has you know, this week we did see him try to distance himself a little from giuliani. however, this recent golf outing does raise some eyebrows. >> sure does. tharc thar thanks for the chat. conservative lawyers urging democrat to keep the impeachment process going. i'll talk to one of the lawyers who signed that letter next. f t who signed that letter next. gre. you just saved a bunch of money by switching your boat insurance to geico. it was easy. folks, can it get any better than this? is that what i think it is? that is an armada of tiny sushi boats. awesome! i forgot to pack lunch. you had one job... chopsticks wasabi and soy! comin' in a little hot. it only gets better when you switch and save with geico.

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a new call for lawyers to expedite the impeachment process of the president. among the 16 signees, george conway. it provides legal reason for an expeditious process. and one of those signees, jonathan adler. big welcome to you. can i ask you your motivation, what that was for signing on to this letter? >> well, the president takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend the united states and to preserve and protect our constitution and that's fundamentally incompatible with much of the conduct that he's engaged in now including conduct that is not disputed. the conduct in terms of the phone call with ukraine, the requests for quid pro quo, the

subverting of u.s. foreign policy and national security to the president's personal and political interests, these sorts of things are incompatible with this oath and those of us that believe in the rule of law, the importance of the presidency and the role that the president must play should be willing to say so and it's -- we're at the point where the question should not be whether the president is engaging in conduct that is incompatible with his oath. the question should be whether it justifies removing him from office. >> and when it comes to the expeditious part of this, what are the legal reasons, the pertinent ones for doing this quickly? >> well, i mean, at this point we -- there are things that we know that are no longer disputed. for a long period of time there were questions about what material was redacted from the mueller report, how to interpret certain things in the mueller report, did certain things constitution obstruction and the like. but now we have information about activities that even the

president and his defenders do not dispute in terms of what facts occurred. and that should be enough for the house to act more expeditiously and if the white house is not going to cooperate with further inquiry and further investigation into what sorts of conduct has occurred then that itself is yet another reason for the house to act as i think your viewers know, one of the articles of impeachment against nixon was focused on his white house's unwillingness and obstruction of the legitimate inquiries that the house was engaged in. >> so but jonathan, it sounds to me like this is a couple cumulative effect. >> we formed this organization is little over a year ago because we felt on the right there needed to be a loud voice articulating the importance of the rule of law and reaffirming the standard for presidential conduct that many of us on the

right have argued for many years. many folks that are involved checks and balances were involved in the push to impeach president clinton and if you think perjury under oath is something that's incompatible with the president's oath of office one should think much if same act the conduct that the current president is engaged in. >> what do you feel about current gop house and senate members who have yet to come out and publicly oppose the president? do you believe there are a number of them that feel the way you do, but have not had the ability to be forceful and come out? are you providing intellectual cover for them to say okay, now we can come out and vote against the president? >> we're certainly hoping that's part of the role we can play to make it clear both to those in political office but also folks more broadly in the conservative movement that this point of view

and perspective is important. it's fully compatible with having conservative views of public policy and the law and that there are certain principles that should transcend whatever our preferences are. but certainly there are -- i am ware of republican office holders, political staff that share these views but have unfortunately been unwilling to come forward and say it publicly. in the house there should be more republicans willing to say that this conduct at the very least raises the question of whether the president should remain in office. in the senate i understand if there are senators who want to reserve judgment, if the house does impeach there then would be a senate trial and it's certainly reasonable for senators to say they want to see the evidence laid out in the context of a trial. >> of course. >> but i would hope more senators like my snot tor rob portman would be willing to say

that we do know the conduct that has occurred is an acceptable. >> paul rosen's wife, he says he would vote for impeachment and conviction based on all the ukraine revelations. so just looking at just ukraine, are you in that same place? would that alone require impeachment and removal from office for you? >> well, i think it's certainly justifies impeachment. were i in the senate i would take my oath seriously and i would want to see the evidence laid out. i would note in paul's case, he's been through this process before. he worked for judge ken stahr. he was involved in that process. you know, he's not someone that is viewing this in terms of politics, but it's a question of principle. what sort of conduct is compatible with the oath that we expect the president to take and to uphold? >> all right. well, sounds like you are oovery principled man yourself.

thank you for joining me. >> good to be here. >> tonight look for the special on the impeachment crisis. ari now gives us a preview. >> happy weekend, everyone. what a week it's been. trump officials trying to defy testimony about the scandal and two of giuliani's associates indicted. it is a ton. investigators in congress are looking at all of it obviously in the impeachment probe so i want you to know we are doing something special. tonight we have a new msnbc program, never been aired before. i'm going to get into the evidence against trump, how it compares to past impeachments and because we're going deeper we have some very special guests including a retired federal appeals court judge, a presidential historian and a u.s. senator who cast an impeachment vote. so we'll get into all of that in this new special tonight. trump and ukraine, impeachment crisis, hosted by me tonight at

9:00 p.m. eastern. >> after ari, richard engel goes on assign to see what rudy giuliani and the trump administration were looking to establish in ukraine. coming true, some of the worst fears of the president's decision to pull back in syria and this morning the kurds are paying for it. ♪ a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth.

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now to morning headlines and this breaking overnight. all roads closed due to wind fuelled fires are open again. all evacuation orders have been lifted. more than 30 buildings damaged or destroyed. >> lucky is an understatement. this is well, what, the second time we've been evacuated and the third time we've been involved with a fire. >> those fires are responsible for three deaths ft firefighters battling the the flames in saddle ridge where nearly 8,000 acres are scorched. they say the fire is 33% contained. rescue crews will resume searching for a missing construction worker. more than 100 workers were on site in new orleans when that building suddenly gave way. at least 18 were injured, two

killed. the building remains unstable. investigators say it's going to take time to figure out what caused that collapse. louisiana governor bill edwards forced into a runoff election for his bid for re-election. he fell short in last night's primary of the 50% threshold needed to avoid a runoff. the general election is next month. residents in many parts of north da coe kota are digging o from snow. hundreds of homes lost pour at the height of that storm. the conflict between turkey and the cukurds if syria and potential evidence of alleged atrocities. this shows arab militia's executing a kurd by the roadside as they shout akbar.

they appear genuine. the turkish backed militias include al qaeda and isis supporters. these other new pictures show damage inside turkey. this was on the receiving end of mortar fire, this from the kurds and this is the scene in much of the kurdish territory under constant shelling from turkey's army. both are covering the developments for us. let's go first to keir on the turkish side of the border. we're hearing some new reports of sigh sisis prisoners escapin of the camps. >> that's a camp that's just across the border from here. it's a refugee camp but in it were hundreds of isis families, mostly families. now, there are mixed reports about how many isis prisoners have escaped. one report says 785 cited to the

kurd, but another report suggest 950. we do know around about that number of isis members were held there and there are reports from the turkish side that they have arrived there to find that the isis annex, if you like, has been emptied. of course, what exactly has happened to those people, whether they've been moved somewhere else or taken into custody, that is unclear but it does seem many of them are on the run. we're just investigating who these people are. one of them may well be a fairly infamous isis member, a 25-year-old woman from britain who became known as the match maker. she has two children. she gave a recent interview in which she said she was desperate to get back to britain. where she is now and where she is going, no one knows but of course that is going to ratchet up the pressure on turkey over

this move, this military move into syria and on the -- on washington on the white house over them apparently green lighting the move and more pressure will come from these pictures that you mentioned at the top there of apparently pro-turkish militia executing two kurdish fighters who were -- had their hands tied on the road and another report of a kurdish politician and women's rights campaigner who reportedly was pulled from her car and again, executed. so those people will be describing as war crimes. already leadership on those pro turkish militia here in turkey are saying they plan to investigate and to hold accountable any fighters that are responsible for this, but it is -- i don't think it's wrong to describe it as chaos on the other side of the border and i fear that we'll be hearing more stories like this. >> absolutely.

none of the news you're sharing with us is good but i thank you nonetheless. let's go to bill now. bill is joining us from the capital of kurdistan. there seem to be efforts to try to end this conflict. is anything working, bill? >> reporter: yeah, good morning. i think the short answer is no. the latest was a phone call between the british prime minister boris johnson and the turkish president erdogan yesterday in which johnson urged the president to stop this invasion but president erdogan has made it quite clear we're not stopping no matter what anybody says. the arab league condemned him over the weekend. that's not going to make any difference. there is u.s. pressure and ultimately that could have some effect, certainly economically, because as steve munuchin said,

they do have the power to take down the turkish economy should it wish to do that. but we're a long way away from that at the minute. what could have an effect are these increasing and disturbing reports of human rights violations. there is an ambulance team that is missing an ngo has reported them missing near the front line and i've seen very disturbing photographs of four bodies on the ground. it's absolutely not confirmed that that is the ambulance crew, but you know, u.s. officials will be looking at these reports and trying to weigh up do these constitute a war crime? are they attacks on civilians? is this evidence of ethnic cleansing and if it's any one of those then that for the u.s. would certainly should cross some kind of red line because it would in the case of an ambulance crew for example constitute a war crime and at

that point at least that's what the trump administration was hinting last week. at that point, that might be a trigger for president trump to do something possibly even sanctions. just one other thing, alex, that's broken within the last ten minutes or so and it comes from the ap news agency in beirut. a u.s. official is saying american troops in northern syria are now at risk of being isolated and could clash with turkish backed forces. i would suggest that if that happened, that would certainly be another trigger for deeper u.s. intervention. >> absolutely. and a part of that statement from the ap clearly saying that the situation in northern syria is deteriorating rapidly. thank you for that. we appreciate you. let's bring in right now foreign correspondent for the "new york times." we've heard about these atrociti atrocities. i understand that you can also confirm what we're hearing and i'd love to know how you interpret what's happening right now on the ground.

>> so yes, i have confirmed with an sdf commander this is the kurd heish militia that indeed camp has fallen. this was a camp that included civilians as well as isis supporters and isis relatives an as my colleague mentioned, the 25-year-old woman that we know was being housed at this camp has been described to me as ha hard core isis supporter. she is involved in recruiting many other women to the group. we don't know where she is. but of course this is exactly what people predicted would happen and unfortunately it has come to pass. the second observation is that people back home might not realize that when we're talking about a turkish offensive into this area one of the dirty little secrets about how turkey carries out its military assaults is that they are working often through a proxy force which is these arab

fighters. these are islamist fighters that have been accused of carrying out grave human right abuses in other parts of this conflict and right now the "new york times" has confirmed that the video that came out this weekend showing the execution of two bound kurdish fighters was indeed carried out by this very militia. >> when you hear the associated press quoting a u.s. official saying the situation in northern syria is deteriorating rapidly, how do you interpret that? >> i think it's exactly what the ap is reporting. this is a cause yotchaotic situ has degraded very fast in the last couple of days and what is especially worrying is that despite the fact that trump essentially gave a green light to president erdogan to invade this part of northern syria we saw that our own forces have

come under assault. just, you know, just this weekend the artillery that was fired came within 100 meets of that position. i have myself spoke to two senior u.s. officials who say that they believe that that was no mistake. that that was -- that that was in fact intended to intimidate urs forces in order to get the last little batch of americans in this part of the world to pull out so that turkey can have free reign to do what it wishes. >> so what you're saying is they deliberately fired at u.s. troops there in order to have them leave? >> that is what -- yes. that is what two u.s. officials have told me. these are people that are quite senior and they're saying that turkey is a nato power. they had the exact grid coordinates of where the u.s. position is and it wasn't just a couple of shots. it was rainstorm of artillery that came down within hundreds of meters of this u.s. position.

>> we know there are so many that are wondering what was going on in the president's mind when he decided to announce he was pulling out troops but her here is the president defending that move. take a listen to part of it. >> the kurds are tending to leave and that's good. let them have their borders, but i don't think our soldiers should be there for the next 50 years guarding a border between turkey and syria when we can't guard our own borders at home. >> can you make sense of what the president said there and also confirm the fact that kurds are leaving? >> kurds are leaving from where, alex? >> he was saying the kurds are leaving northern syria, that they are fleeing. we know that many are. they're fleeing almost in a refugee status for sure, so you

have that confirmation as well. we're showing video of it. but that what president said you don't need to speak on whether it's good to have troops there for the next 50 years but the president saying that we can't guard our own borders and so why should we be there in the border there between syria and turkey, how is that being interpreted? >> right. you know, i think what gets broadcast is the forever war nar tifr. we've been in this conflict for years now and we need to bring our troops home but what is lost in that discussion at the height of the iraq war we had about 100,000 american troops that were stationed in iraq and the surrounding area. the -- the syrian offensive and the syrian military campaign was being carried out between 2,003,000 american soldiers so 2

to 3% of what -- of what the height of our -- of our involvement was. it was in fact a very small number of troops who were incredibly effective i have to say in helping to push back isis from this area. now, it's up to -- it's up to the administration and others to decide whether that was also too much of a commitment but it seems to me from all of the data that we have that those troops were doing something quite useful, quite effective and quite important to america's national security in light of the fact that the paris attacks, the brussels attackers, other attackers who have carried out campaigns of killings around the world emanated from syria. left this area of syria in order to go cause mayhem and murder in the west. >> i will very much look forward to speaking with you again. thank you so much. coming up next, a cry for justice. fort worth police release body cam video of an officer shooting a woman inside her home and her

sister can only ask how could that happen. pen. >> you know, you want to see justice but justice don't bring my sister back, you know. i don't understand like these are men that's trained. what kind of training is that? g? the old dogs. the deaf, blind, the different. subaru presents the underdogs. these shelter dogs still love unconditionally. they're just hoping to find their human, who does too. to help, subaru is establishing national make a dog's day to ask you to please consider adopting an underdog, or do something extra-special for your dog.

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shock and anger and a community in outrage. a woman shot to death by a police officer called by a neighbor to check on her house. cathy park now shows us the police body cam that only fuels more questions about why he opened fire. >> just released body cam footage shows the moments leading up to a deadly shooting. a fort worth police officer is seen walking around the outside of a home shining a flashlight on the walls and windows for closer inspection. he stops, points his flashlight at a window and draws his gun. >> put your hands up, show me your hands. >> fort worth police issued a statement saying the officer perceived a threat, drew his weapon and fired one shot striking 28-year-old jefferson. police say he entered to provide first aid and also found a firearm in the home. jefferson died at the scene. >> 15 minutes later i heard a loud noise and i saw five or ten

police officers surround the house. and i don't know what happened on the inside of the house p all i know is my neighbor is dead. >> he said he called a nonemergency number out of concern for his neighbor. all the lights in her home were on and doors opened. smith believes she might still be alive if he never dialed for help. >> if you don't feel safe with the police department then who do you feel safe with? do you just ignore something that's not right? >> the unidentified officer has been with the department since april 2018 and is now on administrative leave. tonight jefferson's sister, devastated. >> i just don't understand, these are men that's trained. what kind of training is that? >> it's heart breaking there. that was cathy park reporting and the mayor of fort worth has issued a statement to assure the

community of a complete and thorough investigation and called that shooting tragic and asking all of fort worth to surround the jefferson family with prayers, love and support. what president trump is still doing to keep his tax returns hidden from the american public. how much longer can he get away with it next. r can he get away with it next alk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪

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i actually told my lawyers, sue them anyway. he's got immunity. but they can't mean immunity for that. i said sue him anyway. and sue nancy pelosi. or maybe we just just impeach them. . >> the president of the united states there yesterday threatening to step up his aing tas on the top two democrats, nancy pelosi and adam schiff. joining me now msnbc legal analy analysts. good to see you both. glen, you first here. this new call is coming after trump criticized adam schiff's outline of the controversial call with the president. can the president actually sue the house for that inquiry? >> he can bring suit against anybody he wants. and you know what, a competent judge is free to throw out those

suits. whether it's because there is no legal claim that he actually can make -- without being laughed out of court or because the people or the organizations he's tried to sue have sovereign immunity. if they're acting in their official capacity and not acting in sort of an intentionally underhanded, unlawful, reckless manner, they're not going to be sued successfully. what this shows, alex, is howedes pratt, how scared the president is because he feels the walls closing in, and we all see it. >> danny, when you hear the president says he's going to sue schiff, who also has immunity, how do they work together? what does the constitution say about the speech of congress members? >> the speech or debate clause provides absolute immunity for congress folks but only nor a narrow scope of activities. that's how it has been interpreted since the 1970s. they include speech on the

floor, voting, work in committees. however, the supreme court has not extended that immunity to other activities, including speaking with the press or speaking with constituents. as almost flabbier capacitying as it may sound, there could be responding beyond the debate clause. it provides absolute immunity only for limited activities, not necessarily everything that a congressperson does. . >> you certainly cleared that up for me. appreciate that. guys, let's get to the tax issue. glenn, a federal appeals court ruled they have to comply with the house subpoena to release eight years, get it to the house oversight committee. now that two courts have said the documents need to be handed over, is this it, or does the president have further appeal? >> it's only it for the time

being, alex, because his lawyers will have two steps they can take to stpb continue to stonew. they can have a rehearing, a full court rehearing. that would involve all the judges in the d.c. federal circuit court. they would all sit and re-hear the case and see if they agree with the three-judge panel who ruled in the first instance. then he could take it beyond that and petition for a hearing in the supreme court. >> danny, i'm curious how long something like this might take. is there a chance we could see them before the 2020 election? . >> it's hard to see with these cases pause with the priority placed on them. for your run of the mill civil case, it could take years to run through the appel at courts. when you look at the aggressive policy to petition for rehearings and then appeal and

appeal to the supreme court. again, these are all, in many courts, new issues of law that have not yet been addressed. the normal deference you see lower courts being afforded may not happen here. >> good to see you, guys. the two candidates who may have the most at stick in this week's presidential debate is up next on "up" with david gura. up" wit. with dodge power dollars buy any challenger, charger, or durango and get ten bucks cash allowance for every one horsepower. billions of problems. dry mouth? parched mouth? cotton mouth? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath oral rinse and lozenges. help relieve dry mouth using natural enzymes to soothe and moisturize. so you can... breathe easy, there's therabreath at walmart. o♪ ozempic®! ♪ oh! oh! (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®.

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that's it for me, everyone. i'm alex whit. i will see you noon eastern. buckle up. you have "up" coming your way with david gura. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. breaking news out of syria. one u.s. official said the condition is deteriorating rapidly. turkey continue to go take territory. the latest as hundreds of isis escape and the fate of millions of refugees hangs in the balance. not even a day after a profanity-filled speech in louisiana, president trump tells an audience of conservatives that impeachment is a bad word. new reporting on what lawmakers are likely to hear from gordon sondland, the trump donor and ambassador to the european union said there was no quid pro quo. now he is expected to say he's not so sure. so