that's it for me, everyone. i'm alex whit. i will see you noon eastern. buckle up. you have "up" coming your way with david gura. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. breaking news out of syria. one u.s. official said the condition is deteriorating rapidly. turkey continue to go take territory. the latest as hundreds of isis escape and the fate of millions of refugees hangs in the balance. not even a day after a profanity-filled speech in louisiana, president trump tells an audience of conservatives that impeachment is a bad word. new reporting on what lawmakers are likely to hear from gordon sondland, the trump donor and ambassador to the european union said there was no quid pro quo. now he is expected to say he's not so sure. so the impeachment inquiry

continues with more testimony as the democratic candidates prepare to debate on tuesday in ohio. the latest updates from the campaign trail. the latest as hundreds of isis supporters escape from prisons there. that is where we start with my colleague matt bradley who joins us from syria. more than 700 islamic state supporters broke out of the camp as the united nations say 130,000 people have been displaced from the fighting in its fifth day. you are 100 plus miles away from where all of this is transpiring. this is being described as a predictable qaa taft fee. what is the latest on the ground in syria? >> reporter: this happened, david, in just the last couple of hours. what we have heard is there is probably 750 to 900, depending on the source of isis family

members. these aren't the isis-hardened criminals and terrorists who are also held in camps. they are women and children. it looks as though they either took advantage of the security vacuum that was left by members of the kurdish fighting group, sdf, rushing to the front lines to fight off the invading turkish military and syrian allies, or it was coordinated between the turks and their syrian allies and the isis elements that were inside this camp. depending on who you would ask, it would seem as though this is more of an opportunistic thing. where they attacked some of the few remaining sdf guards left in this camp in northeastern syria and tried to break out. phourbgs the kurds will tell you this was coordinated, the turks know people within islamic state and they coordinated this prison riot in order for a massive

jailbreak and create in stability within northeastern syria. this is an allegation the kurds have been banning about for years. they have been working in league with isis and other extremist islamists in the region. the turks historically have turned a blind eye to a lot of al qaeda elements in that area. they are trying to shore up sunny islamist support in syria and push the sunni elements against the regime. this is historically kind of been the case. it's unclear what level of support the turks are giving them. but this is something that is just happening. we will hear a lot more as the day goes on. >> matt bradley, as you and i are speaking, president erdogan is speaking, talking about the territory that the turks have claimed at this point. what insight do you have, do we have into the plan turkey has at

this point? there was a lot of concern about the attack on the u.s. fortification just a couple of days ago. the turks adding that was app accident. some suggesting they intend to push further into this territory. what do we know about turkeys plans going forward? >> reporter: well, i don't know if you have a map up, david. if you just look at it, basically erdogan wants a peace corridor. that would stretch 20 miles into syria from turkey. and it would be something like 300 miles long. now, the whole idea behind is this two-fold. he wants to push the kurds, who he considers terrorists. they have long launched terror attacks against turkish civilians. he wants to push them away from the border. he considered the syrian kurds the same as turkish kurds, and he thinks they are all terrorists.

there is another more controversial element. erdogan wants to take part. probably near half of the 6.5 syrian refugees who are currently sheltering within turkey and put them back into syria within this peace corridor. of course most of them are syrian arabs, not syrian kurds. that's why you keep hearing this ethnic cleansing being bantered around. >> we have several of my colleagues throughout the region. we will be checking in with them throughout the next couple hours. thank you very much, matt. appreciate the reporting. pete dominic is comedian and radio host. katie. and the host of the takeaway on public radio international. with us from washington covers the washington for "the daily beast". i will pivot to talk about the latest on the impeachment investigation. it is something president trump addressed at a big bearing of social conservatives in washington, d.c.

>> now it is the outrageous impeachment. look, impeachment. i never thought i'd see or hear that word with regard to me. impeachment. i said the other day it's an ugly word. it's an ugly word. very ugly word. it means so much. it means horrible, horrible crimes and things. for those of you that things she was reasoned for the last six months. no, no, no, no. i said she's going to do it. she wants to have it carried out closer to election. she's going to do it. not a good person. i think she hates our country. we're going after these people. these are batted, bad people. i actually told my lawyers, sue him anyway.

but they have immunity. i said sue them anyway. even if we lose, the american public will understand. and sue nancy pelosi. >> president trump making the case against the impeachment inquiry and the democrats on twitter and on television and in speeches like that one. 20 days in, the president has become even more volatile as the chief correspondent observes in today today's newspaper. trump has been operating beyond his often untethered bounds. there may be no period in the entirety of trump's presidency comparable to the behavior now on display. let me give you a little taste of that. >> crooked adam schiff made a statement, long, beautiful statement. and it was a fraud. i'm going to go after him. they say, sir, he has immunity.

sue him anyway. even if we lose, the american public will understand. >> well, dan's piece, as comprehensive as it is alarming. nicholas burns offered his opinion several times on this show. he said this is different and more damaging than any other involving past presidents over the past half-century. there is no war room. he is relying on the white house counsel to make the message known to lawmakers. they sent a letter to democrats that was a blue print for the stonewall they have been trying to build. we know that letter may have had white house signature on it but maybe not his loan. the letter was notable not for the conclusion it reached few suspected that the administration was going to for the broad sides and rhetorical

flourishes it featured. it was not total fully written by lawyers. now he will walk back what he said about whether or not there was a quid pro quo when he testifies on capitol hill this week. the president appearing over the phone on fox talking about the situation surrounding his personal attorney rudy giuliani. >> i just don't know if there is an investigation. i just heard it. . >> el with, the "new york times" is reporting -- >> i find a lot of things that you hear, they should look at other people. they should be looking at really bad people doing really bad things to our country. so, no, i stand behind rudy giuliani. absolutely. again, he was a crime fighter from tay one. >> on that point, there has been ups and downs over the course of the last few days in how the president regards his personal attorney. he was on the south lawn and professed not to know if he was

still being represented by rudy giuliani. he had launch with him yesterday. lavished praise on him on twitter yesterday and then had the comments about him last night on that show. >> what's true about this is what's true with donald trump's relationships with a whole host of advisers, confidantes, friends and loyalists, both past and present. he stands firmly full stock, full-throatedly behind them until the very moment he doesn't. so these things can change rather rapidly. it seems to the people i have been speaking to close to the president and also what's been telegraphed publicly, as you can see and read there, that the president does have his personal attorneys back at the moment. and this extends also to continuing to consult him on matters including, but not limited to, that eight-page letter september to capitol hill that you mentioned earlier.

as we reported at the daily beast yesterday, it wasn't just that the president sat for several private sessions with his white house counsel pat ciplione and it would become the eight-page letter almost line by line an actively inserted insults into the letter in very trumpian fashion that his lawyer then crafted into pseudo legalese and september to top democrats and nancy pelosi. in the days delivering up to that letter consulted with rudy giuliani on it. whenever there is a legal salvo from the president's personal legal team it will inevitably always bear a trumpian trademark with a very personal touch. >> back in just a moment. still to come, a couple days ago he seemed unsure if raoupudy giuliani was still his attorney. now calling him a legendary

crime buster. >> the long list of things that are going in president putin's favor. bernie sanders is back in the spotlight this week. what to expect from him and joe biden. we have seen the ground shift these last few weeks. these last few weeks as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchemel... cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ work so hard ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. candidates will take the stage

for the first debate since senator sanders suffered a heart attack and the first since the house of representatives began its impeachment inquiry. mike is out on the campaign trail today with vice president joe biden. what are they saying what we should expect here so? help us understand how they are preparing for the debate in ohio on tuesday. >> reporter: well, it is interesting, david. we have seen since the start of this campaign that the former vice president has really had a hard time toggling between the general election campaign that he is clearly more comfortable running against donald trump. for a long time, as i said, he was eager to take the fight to donald trump as much as he could. we have seen a shift in the other direction. biden wanted to turn his focus to challengers rising in the polls, especially elizabeth warren. we saw that at an event a few

days ago in new hampshire. him talking about we are not electing a planner. we need somebody with a track record of getting things down. we have seen this onslaught from president trump and his allies on questions surrounding his son and his business dealings over seas. they have been aggressive making it clear no evidence that he acted inappropriately when he was vice president involving matters that related to his son. the vice president himself has been more much reluck at that point in time to take this issue head-on. that has all began to change the last few days. we saw him in new hampshire wednesday finally joining the rest of the field and calling for the president's impeachment. and just this morning we are actually now hearing from hunter biden through his spokesman according to bloomberg. he is now pledging to, if his father is elected vice president, receiver any ties he has with foreign businesses. i want to read from a statement from hunter biden's attorney. under a biden administration,

hunter will readily comply with any and all standards. including any restrictions related to overseas business interests. now, what we have heard from the former vice president about his son he at times has been defensive. he talked about how he has never done anything wrong. but they haven't discussed in their past any of hunter's private business dealings. that is something that both his challengers and obviously the president has found difficult to believe. now they will take that more directly head-on. >> i will turn to you. help us understand the hurdle for the debate. those who are polling low and want to make an impact of course. for biden, sanders, warren, how important is this debate? >> the quick question for biden right now is he an asset or

liability. it has taken him a while to call for impeachment unlike his more progressive front-runners here. the other question is that elizabeth warren is polling really strong. she's trying to pull ahead of both biden and sanders. we should mention that bernie sanders, as you mentioned, suffered a heart attack or whatever it was he suffered. his campaign was sketchy about releasing exactly what that was. we know if senator sanders was a woman, there would be a different dialogue around his health and what happened similar to hillary clinton. they are trying to gloss over that. i think both of these folks, biden, bernie sanders, and joe biden are both going to have to really prove that they can stick with the front-runners this time around >> get in on this point. i heard you jumping in a second ago. a lot of folks aren't saying this isn't the time to be fighting on these two issues, what the president has thrown on

his health, age. your sense of whether or not that is going to come up during the course of the debate. >> i think it will come up, and i think it should come up. it is important for progress if's to see them coming up. that is what a primary is, and what they are supposed to do. i'm on the record of being very ageist, david, against donald trump bernie sanders, and joe biden. they're all too old to be president. that's the easy point to make. my dad is at home watching us, hey, dad, with a stint. he's on the couch. he has been teaching skiing for 44 years. he's 75. and he couldn't run for president. bernie sanders is one of my heroes. but he hasn't shown that he has absorbed the youthful outlook, that he understands the pace of technology that is needed to understand any more than joe biden has. he doesn't inspire young people. it is time both of them step aside. andrew yang talks about technology. elizabeth warren has an answer

for all of these ideas. i think age matters. understanding the outlook of young people and what they are going to be facing is the most integral idea to appeal to. >> we will play a little bit of tape later in the show. sorry, bernie sanders did. but he brought up elizabeth warren. how distinctive will that line be, katie? . >> i think because the field has been so big, i don't think anybody is going to touch on the sanders health issue or the age issue. i think that is too human which makes us all vulnerable to something regardless of your age. i don't think at this stage it's going to happen. pause the field has been so big, i have always focused on the potential pairings that could occur as a result of this case. if you look at the sanders age or biden age issue, now it generates more of a conversation of who is your running mate. gore for bid something did

happen to them, who would step into the space or the void that was created. i think joe biden has to stand there, even if it's not a solicited question, and he has to own what's happening with his son. i think hunter biden falling on the sword right now is one thing. but i think joe biden needs to directly address it, and i don't think he has. i sorry for not immediately answering your question. katie will eventually get there. it is more of a drive to delineate those positions. but i think people are trying to treat the labels at socialism and capitalism dirty words, which they could be where they come from. but i don't think people will be that barbed during this debate. >> the debate, actual say gabbard saying she might boycott it. we are here now still a year out to the general election, how warranted, how merited is the

criticism do you think. >> well, it is important to note depending what the barriers are to entry, it says a lot about why we hear how much a candidate is able to raise, who the supporters are. all the candidates want to be on the stage. they're all asking for your money on twitter, facebook, social. they know it is important to get the tv time. the "new york times" is participating with cnn. "new york times" editors will be there going to be doing the moderating which to me was a surprise. there's cable news. then the "new york times". and so them coming together signifies the importance of the media to have these voices at the table. at the end of the day, the questions need to be sharp. the candidates need to know that this is -- hopefully the field is narrowing at this point. we'll see. coming up, president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani conspicuously in conspicuous

since federal prosecutors started looking at his ties into the ukraine. why rudy should be worried about his relationship with the president, next. his relatishonip with the president, next. there's a power in listening; it's what gives audible members an edge. it opens our minds, changes our perspective, connects us, and pushes us further. the most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories: audible.

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>> the president praised raoupbl as a legendary crime buster, ironic given that federal prosecutors are looking into what we violated federal lobbying laws. he has been uncharacteristically absent from television screens in recent days. some of his allies feel he should just stop talking. one former senior administration official told politico, hopefully rudy will be on the space shuttle. i'm going to start with you. i want to go back to the line behind me, the connections. >> you are missing people, david. >> tell us what that says to you and the web that has been woven here. you have certain principals, now this former am bass tore to ukraine, rudy giuliani, and these ancillary types.

what does it say about the smallness of the universe. >> it is a sticky web. the common dedominators are the lawyers, right? what is that old quote. is it shakespeare. the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers. >> sure. >> anyway, so the point is the common denominator are the lawyers. i have seen people asking about this. why are they allowed to practice law? we are talking about this. pete is like that's what is going on. who would want to represent them. >> who wants to run into a burning building. >> patrick sending this letter. you don't let your client add all these things to it. we have ethics and rules. >> we do? . >> shocking, i know. what should happen is a lot of bar associations and state licensing boards should be looking at these particular lawyers. if you take them out at the knees, they will not be able to advocate. i was saying you are missing

john dowd, the same group of people. it's not a coincidence. it is not a coincidence that the two lawyers representing trump in his impeachment hearing happen to also represented the ukraine who funneled money. just take them down where you can. >> i'll put the tweet back up again. the president calling him a legendary crime buster. things have changed since. i have seen a lot of writing in recent days about why we call him the president's personal lawyer. he is unpaid. he doesn't seem to be doing any legal work. our notion of who he is and what he has been doing changed in recent weeks. >> absolutely. i think the media has to make that distinction. rudy giuliani, for those of us long time native new yorkers, we know this person quite well. we know he has a very long

history. some folks might remember him as the 9/11 america's mayor. before that, he had a troubled past in new york city as mayor, particularly with communities of color. rudy giuliani has a long and checkered past just as a figure, as a political figure. and now obviously we're seeing this could become a criminal investigation. one thing to note, david, as far as the -- who is supporting who, the polls right now, americans in the polls are saying, you know, they support impeachment inquiry. it is being supported by the courts. the courts have now given subpoena power to congress. at the end of the day, there are clear employees in the federal deposit who have been there 20, 30 years and most recently the ambassador to ukraine, speaking out against the president about what's happening. so rudy giuliani aside, this is a "house of cards" beginning to crumble. though i'm sure we said that in the past. . >> pete, lastly to you, though. to that point we see popular

support for impeachment changing. you have the president out there carrying this message out to his base at rallies and speeches like the one he gave last night. what does that say about the messaging here coming from the white house? i would never say rudy was in control of his message. what have the last few days told you about who is driving that message from the white house? >> when you say, david, the message from the white house, you're a journalist. you're resting on the white house traditionally having a message. where there is a group of people, they craft a message and they look long term. the president of the united states is the messenger. he's the only person. anybody that advised him and counseled him in any traditional responsible way, they're all gone. he has rudy giuliani advising him. that would be like the yankees have me be the starting pitcher tonight. rudy giuliani, we are talking about this during the break. he might get indicted by his

former office, sdny, it might be the office that would indict him which would be poetic and crazy. i think rudy is always out. i think trump will throw him in the michael cohen bin. this is the most epic fall in modern american history. and i predict rudy giuliani will turn into a bat and fly out the window. . >> the illusion coming full circle. when we return, global turmoil and the devastating play in syria, a look how president putin has been staying one step ahead of everyone else. ying one ahead of everyone else dry. her'. spray and scrub anything with a stain. soak your nasty jersey. it stinks! wash the really dirty clothes separately. remember -hard work builds character! tide pods with upgraded 4-in-1 technology unleash a foolproof clean in one step. aww, you did the laundry! but you didn't fold it. oh, that wasn't in the note.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. amid the focus on what is happening in northern syria, it is worth paying attention to how all of this playing is moscow. back at that meeting with president trump in helsinki, he flashed a list of top priorities. it came into focus on a camera lens, interference, ukraine, syria. with turkish forces, his plans are in flux. he's a packer of the brutal leader who responded negatively to turkey's attacks. he said it's a zone where the fighters are concentrated they are still being held by kurdish

military groups. despite growing concerns, turkey is considered a key component of the peace plan. with us is richard sting el, undersecretary of state for public affairs. new book is called "information wars." good to have you with us. it's a great book. what we are seeing now is another chapter in this story. going back to when you were at the state department, help us understand the connective tissue which links what you saw then to what we are seeing now. >> ukraine, syria, middle east and both. it does all tie together in a strange way. it started with the annexation of ukraine in 2014. we saw this tsunami of disinformation. i have been in media my whole life. i had never seen it before. they were communicating to the russian periphery, putin's lies that it was part of russia and all this and that. but the strange way this current story is connected that i say in the book that i feel people haven't talked about is the russian -- i think president

obama made a bit of mistake letting them in in 2015, 2016. the indiscriminate bombings they did against hospitals and civilians created a wave of syrian refugees going through turkey and going into europe. and then putin weaponized immigration in europe. all the false stories about -- >> that sounds familiar. >> -- murdering people, killing people. who else weaponized immigration? donald trump. it came completely full circle. that's why this whole disinformation campaign is pretty nefarious. it doesn't necessarily have a goal other than the goal of disunity and weaponing grievance and making people unhappy. that is putin's goal. >> his goal in part is to be the peacemaker to figure all of this out. >> putin's? >> putin's goal. that he can solve the quagmire in syria. >> just the question alone. i think putin is sitting back

and enjoying every minute of this. this is something that we have seen happen, to your point, about the disinformation campaign. the united states is losing ground internationally particularly among our allies in terms of what we stand for and who we are. the fact that we now are taking part in a lot of this disinformation coming directly from the white house to the american public is a sign in many ways is putin winning or not? i think he is sitting back and enjoying every minute of this. i really do. he watched what happened with the mueller report, saw how that was taken not so seriously by the gop, very seriously by the democrats. now there is an impeachment inquiry unfolding. we will see where that goes. globally, david, the united states -- and president trump's, you know, erratic behavior, if you will, when it comes to global affairs, is something we talked about on the takeaway not too long ago just in terms of, you know, outside of russia you see what the north korea talks falling apart, taliban talks falling apart, jared kushner's middle east plan nowhere to be

found. and this tussle with china. so beyond russia, i think -- and syria, we're seeing the president really having a negative effect on how we are viewed worldwide. and russia is enjoying that. >> in your book you talk about the difficulty of coming to grips with this campaign russia was weighing. you did that. you tried to combat it in the way you did. as you see this administration not doing that, i could put charitably, how much weight do you put to that when you look at the next few years? >> he is the disinformationist in chief. he is a symptom of this rise in disinformation and its greatest cheerleader. it undermines, as you were saying, our standing among allies. putin has always said don't trust the americans. they will always betray you. and trump is doing that. that is why the call with the ukrainian president is so awful. ukraine is boxed in by russia, trying to lead towards europe on the west. and we are their savior. in fact, we are betraying them saying you have to go and get

dirt on my enemies. it's really bad for our alliances. jim mattis when he left said alliances make a country stronger. going back to the story of the day. we assembled an 80-nation coalition against isis and used the kurds in northern syria. that was an example of american power and america being able to bring people together. trump is undermining that like that. . >> my question to you also -- i'm so familiar with it. i have been reading it for minutes. but you offer solutions in here. to me the problem is that the president of the united states doesn't understand the threat matrix here at home, domestic, white supremacists, no problem. he is thinking about iran. to me the issue isn't some conventional warfare. it's putin. it is what you are writing about, disinformation. not only does he not recognize the threat, he is not combatting the main threat from russia. our own leader doesn't recognize

climate change and the main threats and not combatting them. how do we, with him in charge, confront the threats in the next election and with the next president? >> that is super difficult. he does enable the disinformation. one of the things people are worried about in 2020 is much more domestic disinformation. >> right. >> some of which is created by the russians and looking for useful idiots that are russians that they think are trump supporters. the rise of white supremacy is rising. i don't have a great message for that. >> we'll be right back. we will talk more about the book in detail. my thanks to you joining me on set in new york. still ahead, isis fighters have been held by kurdish forces in syria. but with the kurds under attack. this report that some have broken free, a look at what washington is doing and not doing to deal with this real and serious threat. real and

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from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin. and, had significantly less itch. that's a difference you can feel. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines, don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. so help heal your skin from within, and talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent. this is "up". i'm david gura. since taking office, the president has tried to

politicize civil service. in recent years we have seen a drop on foreign service professionals. the consequences of his partisan foreign policy has come to an end. she warned that the current foreign policy of the white house will harm the u.s. globally. ya von sreufp's testimony this week. back with us now is richard sting el author of "information wars." let me ask you for your reaction to what we saw this week. we saw the ambassador sitting down with lawmakers for nine hours behind closed doors. so much of your book is on you navigating this department. the customs of the place. how it operates. how it has operated. what did that tell you, seeing

her do that. get that subpoena and show up and talk for as long as she did. >> i was filled with admiration and it actually confirmed everything that i have thought about the foreign service officers. they want to serve their country. they take an oath to defend the constitution. that's what she was doing. she wasn't saying i'm loyal to the department, much less the president. she said i'm loyal to the american people and defending the constitution. i think that was a brave thing she did. they're meant to be insulated. the president isn't meant to be firing ambassadors. the fact that she spoke truth to power about how this process works was a really admirable thing. . >> you look at how much of this scandal came apart. it was through the text mentals. yes, the outward-facing technology, the information campaigns or the efforts the state department makes. but also how it operates from within. you see the guys communicating on whatwhatsapp, using tech messages. >> well, look, as you know, one

of the things i write about is the state department has to come into the 21st century and if and when there is a democrat elected in you to, i wouldn't go back to the way i was. the idea of using whatsapp is by itself they are trying to hide what they're doing. federal law says any communication you make as a federal official has to be documented and saved. they are trying not to do that. they are avoiding it. the scheme of the law seems to incriminate them because of awareness of guilt. that is a dead giveaway to me. >> go back to syria and ask you about the cavalierless of which the president approached this issue. you write about meetings you had with ben rhodes yesterday. he was somebody who worked on this issue of countering isis as you did through information and trying to cut that campaign off at the knees. this was a complicated and complex effort. and here we see the president going against that. we see again this crisis being created that we so easily could

have forced. >> it is a tremendously comp it qaaed thing and we could see hit all day and i know you don't want to do. . >> i would love to if we had the time. >> -- and talk about it. isis was a threat. it was a threat to the region. even a threat here. how do we marshall our forces to eradicate them? there was the problem with syria. ben and i probably wouldn't completely agree with how we dealt with it. but we could just focus on syria -- i mean isis. the problem with the president making this reckless decision -- he's not aware -- he's never been aware that countries have interest. erdogan is not just himself. he is representing a country. he doesn't get the fact that people have these goals. that turkey wants to set is up this territory there, get rid of the syrian refugees, put them

there. and that will undermine trump's alleged purpose of i want to end the endless wars in the middle east. he kicked the war down 5 tore 10 more years by doing what he is doing. it is a mess. >> i'll ask you to assess the threat from all of this. we see the prisoners escaping. they are talking how the caliphate was under control. he talked about this in statist terms. what you write about in the book was a post-state threat. you are dealing with an entity that is beyond borders. >>y he. >> there is a narrowness of focus on the president's part incident to get to your point. how fearful should we all be of the people escaping prisons. >> as president obama said, isis is not an existential threat to the u.s. one of the larger themesis this weaponization of grievance happening around the world. they represented the sunnis. putin is with russians felt left

out of the modern world at the end of the soviet union. and we know about donald trump. isis wants to make muslim -- islam great again. putin wants to make russia great again. and trump's slogan is what we know. this is a global rise of authoritarian due to weaponization of grievance that is a threat to all of us in a way. i put it all in one unified field for you. >> richard, thank you very much. thank you very much for being here. on "up", the ambassador spills the tea over the scandal which is not good for president trump or his personal attorney. the person who broke the story joins us. ke the story joins us great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar?

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impeachment? i never thought i would see or hear that word with regard to me. impeachment. it's an ugly word. to me it's an ugly word. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. president trump defending himself with koerbl conservatives in washington, d.c. joe biden's son bunter, through his attorney, now promising to forego outline foreign work if his father were to be elected president. hunter will step down from the board of a chinese-backed

company. more troubling news for president trump. it has to do with the u.s. diplomat the white house tried to block from testifying. nbc news reporting ambassador to eu gordon sondland plans to tell congress he does not know why aid to ukraine was held up or who ordered it so. reporting by the "washington post". we will speak to one of the reporters who had that scoop in just a moment. i want to highlight the text exchange. t bill taylor texting i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. gordon sondland saying the president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quo's of my kind. ambassador sondland spoke to president trump before that text. the post matching that. this part has not been corroborated by nbc news. it's only true that the

president said it, said the source, not that it was the truth. the latest revelation couldn't come at a worse time for president trump. sondland's deposition before the house on thursday. next week is the deadline for vice president pence, rudy giuliani and other officials to turn over documents to the democrats. this week will kick off with a bang when fiona hill, the russia and eu aide plans to tell rudy giuliani circumvented the normal white house process to pursue their shadow policy on ukraine. princeton university professor and msnbc contribute ya. mia wiley with the new school and msnbc legal analyst. and mike to my right host of the just podcast. john hudson covers national security for the "washington post". i read the text exchange. give us the color here. what changed the last few hours

as he approaches his testimony and gets ready to go to capitol hill. what's changed in your estimation? >> well, david, it's quite a revelation. let's remember this is one of trump's closest ambassadors. sonde land and him spoke some months every week. and his text message saying let's be clear. there is no quid pro quo. that has been held up by the white house as proof that this impeachment inquiry is far afield. now we have people familiar with sondla sondland's prepared testimony, we have a clear indication that sondland is not saying that he even believes that that is true. he is just saying, you know, he talked to the president at that time. the president said there's no quid pro quo. and so he passed that along. he relayed it. he's not saying i'm 100% confident that that's the case. and there's also so many other revelations that will come out

in this testimony. he's also saying, yeah, it was a quid pro quo but it wasn't a corrupt quid pro quo. i just thought we were trying to crack down on corruption in the country and not necessarily look into the president's political rivals. >> mi, you are shaking your head. your reaction to what's happened with this and over the koucoursf the week? mike pompeo sending the forceful member, they weren't going to allow this to happen. oh, how much has crumbled since. you had the ambassador to ukraine testifying on capitol hill for nine hours. they have to be worried about this as a result. >> oh, they should be worried. because it's not a great thing when someone says i don't know if he was telling the truth. i was just saying what he said. that's like doing a moon walk

when the moon walk is not so helpful to your defense. it is kind of like saying i'm going to slide back right now. look, the problem with this whole thing is the president has been explicit. rudy giuliani has been explicit that this was a quid pro quo. it was we don't want to give military aid. we think that corruption was they weren't helping us with the evidence that we wanted to develop on the bidens. that's the corruption. the corruption and donald trump was explicit about it, what happened at the beginning of 2016 and how were you trying to undermine my campaign. so to suggest somehow that there was -- there's some stipulation here between whether you can have a quid pro quo that is legal versus a quid pro quo that is not is simply ridiculous just on the face of what the public

admissions are. . >> john, let me put you on the spot. sondland didn't testify. now he is. we got the letter from the lawyer last week. subpoenas were in place. marie yovanovitch did testify. fumbling through all on this. now maybe reading the writing on the ball. maybe it is better to go ahead and do this. . >> yeah, look, he is a healthy hotel magnate. more of a jeb got not a trump supporter. now he is at the center of an impeachment inquiry. he is going to be deposed before house investigators. and he has to make a decision about, you know, how frank, how honest and forth right he is going to be. and he's going to have to answer very difficult questions in a heated environment.

the question is how much water will he hold for the administration? and is he going to stand by all of the documents, all the emails, text messages that we know are eventually going to come out. and it looks like already when it comes to one of the most high profile text messages, he is not standing 100% by it. hey, i just happened to replay this. also, let's remember he is also saying that i didn't really know we were going after the bide especiallies. that is going to come up against a lot of scrutiny. when they say, well, weren't you a little bit curious why the president was interested in an obscure ukrainian energy company called burisma? why was the president interested in that. you have been working to unlock military aid to get a presidential meeting just to get that statement for investigations into this? these are difficult questions. and he's going to have to answer how forth right. and it's going to be a big

question at the end on of this week. >> i hope we can get that astonishing quotation back up on truth. i will turn to the expert on philosophy with the question of dumb philosophy. as you listen to this guy fumbling through all of this, what does it say there would be such distrust in the message that was being conveyed to him? that five-hour gap between the first and second text will be the focus of so much scrutiny. >> one would have to have one's head in the sand not to know the president lies on a regular basis. in some ways you can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth. let's be clear what sondland is saying that president trump dictated to him, we heard the same thing. it was revealed. remember, he dictated the message for don about the russian lawyer meeting. and it came out later that he did so after he denied it. so part of what we have to do is to say there is a kind of history here, before he became president examine while he's been president, of lying.

and one would also have to -- strange credulity to think sondland didn't know it was arms for dirt, giving he was following the direction of giuliani and giuliani was all over tv saying he was doing something on biden. the culture of lying is part and parcel of what all of these people participate in. it's can you believe his lie as opposed to trump's lie as opposed to giuliani's lie? because they are all lying. . >> you bring up rudy giuliani. i want to bring up the president last night on fox news. there was uncertainty whether or not rudy giuliani was still, as the president says, his personal attorney. listen to what the president had to say to judge jeanine. >> i just don't know if there is an investigation. i just heard it. >> well, the "new york times" is reporting -- >> i find a lot of things you hear, they should look at other people. they should be looking at really bad people doing really bad things to your country.

so, no, i stand behind rudy giuliani, absolutely. >> you know --. >> again, he was a crime fighter from day one. >> mike, he stands behind him. and there is the delicious dissidence here between the fact that you hear the president saying all of that, touting him as a crime fighter we learned from the "new york times", he is likely the subject of an investigation. the southern district of new york looking at rudy giuliani's relationship with ukraine. >> if you stand behind someone it gives you the ability to push them under the bus when that time comes. there is the interesting thing. the entire defense, the entire white house defense, including the counsel's memo, is it self-impeachable. and i'm not saying that as hyperbole. they are so trying to muddy the waters and not participate in the legal process of what they have to in terms of coming

forward with evidence. were congress to really have a fire lit under it, they could impeach on that, just as they could have itch paoefpd on the obstruction of mueller himself. there is an interesting thing, eddie, they have put forward this standard what we say is public is not something that we really mean, right? china investigate. oh, that's a joke. also lewandowski and trump saying i have no obligation to be truthful to the "new york times". so they are saying our public statements are not to be believed. and our private statements are not to be believed. this transcript is not what the words say. so don't believe anything we say in private and only believe our interpretation even if it contradicts the basic facts before you in what we say in private. i mean, there seems to be in defense except to excite the people who want to rise to his defense anyway. i don't know if that's going to

work. to me that is the definition of a constitutional crisis. >> i go back to the tape we played at the value voters summit saying impeachment is a dirty word after a profanity-laced tirade in delivered in louisiana and in minneapolis as well. what does that say to you? we look to him and his behavior the last few days with concern as he seems to be distressed and angry. he's doing impersonations that are bizarre. he is using profanity. what does it say to you that the word impeachment seems to be the thing that is scaring him and making him so worried. . >> he does not want to be impeached. he realized not so good for me to be impeached. not so good for my legacy historically which he cares about despite how he is governing. he did purport to care about how he is perceived in history. it is about him, his ego.

it is not about the country. but he understands even if he can survive conviction in the senate, we don't know yet if he can or not. even if he survives, he does not want articles of impeachment. he doesn't want to be the -- one of the handful of presidents in the history of the country who has articles of impeachment voted out of the house. he's going to. he's also thinking about the election, right? the re-election. you're making the point, david, he's going back to the playbook that got him a pays that is not representative of the country but is unfortunately one that he has gone back to to say i'm still your guy and i need you to support me. >> eddie, we will do a block on the campaign coming up here. but your reaction to this biden news, hunter biden saying he would withdraw from foreign business deals. what does it say about how the biden campaign is approaching

what's been slung at it over the past few weeks? >> well, i have been critical of how they have approached it. i thought he could have been much more aggressive coming out of the box on this issue. i think it is the right thing for hunter biden to do. it may not have been illegal, but it is part of the general question how washington does its business. and so the civil war within the democratic party, david, is in part a judgment about those corporatist democrats who engage in the kind of behavior that hunter biden represents. so it makes sense in this time as we move to the next conversation, in this kind of populist swing happening within the democratic primary, that biden to, in some ways, contain that. >> a lot of fodder for that general question, how washington goes about doing business. john, thank you very much. congratulations on the scoop. coming up, reports of scores

of isis fighters as kurdish u.s. allies under attack by forces. now concerns even more could go free. more on that next. more on atth . ♪ head in now for applebee's new pasta & grill combos starting at $9.99. ♪ work so hard ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat. billions of problems. morning breath? garlic breath? stinky breath? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath fresh breath oral rinse instantly fights all types of bad breath and works for 24 hours. so you can... breathe easy. there's therabreath at walmart.

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get customized security with 24/7 monitoring from xfinity home. awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today. we're following major breaking news. the images we are about to show you are graphic and disturbing. video obtained by nbc news

showing militias executing a man on the road side. the video and photographs appear to be genuine amid reports that 700 islamic state supporters escaping a camp in syria. esper telling one network that 1,000 u.s. troops will evacuate northern syria in a deliberate withdrawal. >> very smart not to be involved in the intense fighting along the turkish border for a change. those that mistakenly got us into the middle east wars are still pushing to fight. they have no idea what a bad decision they have made. why are they not asking for a declaration of war? bill neely swroeupbs us now. bill, there is concern about the millions of refugees and isis prisoners in this part of northern syria.

bill neely, can you hear me? we will try to get back to him in just a bit. we'll go back to the tweet. it is so astonishing. he elected to remove the u.s. troops from this border knowing full well what the ramifications would be. there weren't a lot there. but the symbolism was huge. we have seen what we have seen the last few days and we are seeing now. the president saying we are watching this happen and issuing these warnings to turkey. they shouldn't be doing this. threatening sanctions. the most predictable crisis we could have seen. >> it is not even a warning. it is a vague promise that

should atrocities that he can't even articulate that he will hurt them economically, that he been able to do in other world circumstances. he lit the patch, pushed over the ke and saying isn't it involved we don't have to be involved in firefighting. the culpability is so clear. i don't understand if the only theory is i'm here to help the base, how does any average american who wants a job or wants to own the libs, how do they make this? i'm not even making a moral case and say i should be appalled. how do they get something out of this 1234 does it communicate, oh, american forces aren't fight something at the same time we are putting more forces into saudi arabia. there's nothing about this that makes sense other than being cruel and trump doing a deal with erdogan based on business interests. >> we have bill neely back.

the match being lit, the powder keg going off. give us the latest if you could. alleged atrocities. this is in the third and fourth day. >> reporter: yeah, david, good morning. apologies. we have a bit of a storm here. the real storm is on the ground. it is a situation of complete chaos. just to recap mark esper's remarks, he is talking about pulling all 1,000 troops out. he gave the reasons for that. he said the u.s. learned within the last 24 hours that the turks were going to push further south and west than originally planned and also that the kurds were now reaching out to russia and president assad for help. in other words, the u.s. was misled by ally in nato, turkey, and the other ally it had, the kurds, is now reaching out to

president putin for help. you could call it a disaster. in the last few minutes, four vehicles have been seen leaving. many people will see this as a military humiliation as well. kobani bombed for months. now u.s. is leaving. all 1,000 will be out as quickly as possible. meanwhile, more than a third of a million people are now fleeing. 780 plus isis affiliated people. women mostly. have escaped from a camp that has now been overrun. one known as the matchmaker, a british woman from london, brought dozens of women over from the uk. she was a hard-core isis person,

often filmed with guns. shows on the run. we have a mounting death toll. we have evidence of atrocities being committed by these islamists. militias doing turkey's dirty work on the ground. there is a turkish politician dragged out of her car and virtually stoned to death. kurdish prisoners videoed being executed on the ground. this is a chaotic situation. plenty of reason here for the u.s. possibly to become involved. these look like warm crimes. you might think the u.s. would intervene at this point. but in fact, quite the opposite is taking place. u.s. troops are leaving. certainly there is a red line

there. should president trump want to go there, there is a red line for the introduction of sanctions against turkey, which is what steve mnuchin, the treasury secretary, and others, have mentioned. to cut it short, guys, an absolutely chaotic and fast moving situation in northern syria. >> on the diplomatic humanitarian disaster unfolding. bill, thank you very much on the reporting. when there was that attack by the turks on the u.s. encampment, turkey apologize. the presidency hanging in the balance. this week a voter asked elizabeth warren to respond to those who have been taught marriage is only those between a man and a woman. here's "saturday night live"'s take. . >> i'm going to assume it's a guy. sir, tell me your bus stop

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>> this is "up". i'm david gura. the candidates may be the same largely, but the dynamics could not be more different this type around. vice president joe biden will be sharing that center stage spotlight with senator elizabeth warren. she may have had one of the best weeks of her campaign just yet. she had this viral moment at the lgbtq townhall. >> let's say you're on the campaign trail. >> i have been. >> and you are approached. >> uh-huh. >> and a supporter approaches you and says, senator, i am old-fashioned and my faith teaches me that marriage is between one man and one woman. what is your response? >> well, i'm going to assume it's a guy who said that. and i'm going to say then just marry one woman.

i'm cool with that. assuming you can find one. >> a long clip, you will indulge us. but the timing was everything. ali, we were talking to mime memoli how they are approaching this debate. open up the briefing book that senator warren has on tuesday. what is she looking to do and accomplish in ohio? >> reporter: yeah, david. if you're the elizabeth warren campaign, you like the way the last few debates have gone. and you would like to be able to do that again here in ohio. but if you have been watching the campaign trail lately, other candidates seem to be getting pretty comfortable with the idea that they are going to have to at least contrast themselves, if not outright attack elizabeth warren. you have seen pete buttigieg, an drew yang making jabs at her,

telegraphing what they will do when they get on the debate stage tuesday night. joe biden, also someone who, as you mentioned, is sharing center stage with her. there could be some interaction there. someone i have been watching closely, bernie sanders. the top money raiser for quarter 3. that's a big number. he's coming off the heart aing ta. i'm looking at how he will bounce back from the health moment. but also something where hen tkpwaeuplged on a question where he has not ever engaged with us before. we asked how do you differentiate yourself with someone like elizabeth warren who has been a progressive policy partner in tandem with him on a lot of things like health care. he said there are differences between them. he said not quite in terms of them being the exact same. she calls herself a capitalist to the bones. that is something he would not say for himself.

this has been frozen in amber since the impeachment inquiry began. i would imagine when they hit the stage tuesday night, it will be a juggling act. impeachment and executive power is something that will come out. the candidates will have to talk about that, while executing their own game plans. >> referencing this exchange that she was describing just a moment ago. i don't think we can. mike, i will turn to you on that point. it was a very explicit definition being made by bernie sanders. they have been aligned on so many issues. this is a nominal one. this is how he or she identifies themes. >> i'm not a capitalist is why he has 12% of the support but also no more. i'm a socialist and define myself as much. elizabeth warren saying i am a capitalist, i just want it to work right is exactly where the country is and most democratic

voters are. i think the big challenge is not for warren. it's for biden. the dynamics so far have been maybe one or two gets a little bit of bump. kamala harris comes back down to earth when she can't follow it up. so far the debates haven't changed things. i'm waiting for there to be a difference with that. eddie,s you were saying, biden's response to the ukraine allegations and documentation of what hunter biden has done has been totally in adequate. i don't know -- i would expect democrats would want a better answer than he's given. it seems this is the biggest stage to do it. so far maybe because year a year from the election nothing seems to have changed the voter's perception. maybe this will be the debate that is an exception to that. >> what should others take from it? >> her retail politics is off the charts. she's everywhere. selfie lines are along for a

reason. not only do you have to demonstrate you can take donald trump on, right, and that you can bounce back from a mistake, but you also have to have a vision for the future. the problems we face prior to donald trump, that the problems are that everyday working people were facing in terms of college, putting food on the table, they can imagine a future for their kids, it wasn't reducible to donald trump. that was because of a set of policies that came out of the age of regan, part and parcel of the republican party. and the democratic party has been complicit in it. she is seeing we need a paradigmic shift. by him saying he's a socialist and her a capitalist, he can say we differ on foreign policy. we can talk about where she stands in the u.s. exercise to military power. what is per position with regards to israel and the

occupied territories? how does sanders feel about that? she is giving voice to a desire for a different way of doing business. if we understand that, we can understand why she is doing so well. >> some people will say wall street is worried about elizabeth warren. yes, there is a populist appeal. she's a socialist even if bernie sanders doesn't think she is. or this is going to be bad for wall street. this is anecdotal or popular perception. should she be worried at this point? how much determinism does wall street here have? >> one of the big abutments she got is big wall street donors said we will go with trump if it's warren. people galvanized to warren.

they said that is exactly the problem. if you do not vote the best interest in the country, we don't care what you think. that to me was a huge error on the part of wall street. i think one of the things he is doing by signaling he's a capitalist, i'm not going to be the reasonable, unpragmatic progressive. i am going to be pragmatic. she's going to -- if she is the nominee, she is going to speak a lot more to that. her problem, much bigger, she's still not garnering the black vote. if she is not going to put -- reenergize the obama coalition, she is not going to be the candidate. . >> we will come back in just a minute. thank you for joining us from the campaign trail. first breaking news from the world of sports this morning out

of stuttgart, germany. simone biles the most decorated gymnast in history. she said i never think of medal counts or anything. i let everyone else do the counting for me. well done. tkpraeug congratulations. we'll be right back. tulations. we'll be right back. ♪ hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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>> so you think it's perfectly legitimate for the president to use his personal attorney to go to a foreign country and seek help for a political campaign? >> i think it's equally as legitimate as the democrats going there and saying, hey, we should investigate trump. they really did. menendez. >> they were talking about paul manafort, who was doing shady business who is now in jail for the business he was doing. >> but democrats senators -- >> is that not legitimate. >> here's the thing. if you're going to condemn trump, you need to condemn the democratic sanders. >> that is senator rand paul with my colleague chuck todd. they continue support for impeachment growing among democrats and independents. despite this, the "new york times" found when talking to voters there is still a deep divide. she writes there is growing support for the impeachment inquiry that could result in mr. trump's ouster even as sharp divides remain over his conduct and character. democratic leaders are treading carefully when discussing

impeachment, sending a message to keep the issue from becoming partisan and political. let me start with your fine piece. you went to culpepper, virginia. i remember when i lived in washington, d.c. i would call kenny in culpepper to deliver firewood to me. this is a rural place. why did you go there? we try to marry what we know from the data with how people are feeling about this across america. >> so i went there for a number of reasons. one, it is a lovely historic up to where people are steeped in history. it is close to d.c. where folks are interested in politics. most importantly, it's a red area represented by a blue congressman. spanberger won the district narrowly in 2010. i'm sorry, 2018.

president trump won culpepper county by 60% in 2016. so he clobbered hillary clinton there. and i went because i thought it would create a good mix of views, and it did. >> there notably she did not speak with you. wouldn't speak to a reporter. she wants to talk about this issue. she was a national security background. finally gave support to this inquiry. >> that's absolutely right. they wrote an opinion piece in the "washington post" that prodded nancy pelosi to announce the impeachment inquiry. and i suspect she didn't want to talk because she said what she had to say on impeachment. and she needs to focus on the kitchen table issues that she promised her voters she would address if elected. interestingly, she was in culpepper two days before i was.

she was there on a quote, unquote education tour visiting a local head start office. so she does not want to address impeachment too much because she and other democrats know that might turn voters off. >> if you look at the polling, there is a lot of it. this is like the internet impeachment. we are getting so much feedback in realtime on this. how do you marry the two as we look at how this is proceeding? . >> well, i think they actually match. . >> yeah. >> it is pro impeachment inquiry. 43% to 53% depending on which poll. which basically shows there is a growing sentiment for impeachment inquiry. that is important. for impeachment inquiry. at the same time there is a lot of discomfort around impeachment itself. that's normal. remember this happened during

nixon's impeachment. the numbers started changing dramatically once more information started coming out. the thing that tkrupl should be worried about in the trump administration, is the number of republicans polling at supporting impeachment inquiry, while still a small percentage of republicans, is double the number since the news of ukraine has come out. it is a clearer story. it is easier to understand because he has made public statements admitting it. and so has giuliani. it was clearer than robert mueller. the numbers support what is in congress right now and support the inquiry. the more information that continues to come out and we have seen it coming at a pace. now giuliani is actually under investigation. from what we can tell, quite

rightly so. that will continue to impact opinions. >> last question to you. what do we learn about independence going forward? you had conversations with voters across the country. >> independents are -- should be worrisome to president trump. their support for impeachment inquiry is growing. after robert mueller completed his investigation, 33% of independents supported impeachment. now it is roughly 44%. an internal poll puts it over 50%. that is cause for a concern for president trump. that's the group that really may ultimately determine his future. >> cheryl, thank you very much for the great piece. appreciate it. the seven words that changed the relationship between the nba and clean. where sports and politics have cole laided this week. stay close. ve cole laided this week.

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world. seven words which single handedly jeopardized the nba's ever-growing relationship with china posted by the houston rockets general manager. it read fight for freedom. stand with hong kong. since deleted, that post expressed his support for pro-democracy protesters in hong kong. and it quickly sparked outrage in china. retailers pulled rocket merchandise off store shelves and retail sites. unleashed a storm of criticism in china and china's state broadcast. it dropped streaming of two nba preseason games being played in china. on friday the nba announced it was canceling news rofrpbss after speaking with its players and teams. not sure what is at stake for the nba. all about the money. a conservative estimate puts it $500 million annually paved on deals that are publicly known. bill roden joins us now. peul bill, how surprised were

you that indeed this did happen? we saw the crews bell in which this happened and the new nba is placing on china. >> not surprising. i have been covering this from the arena standpoint, activism. what is beautiful about this.is daryl was right. he was on the right side of history. but the beautiful thing about this is that now they go to china. now the nba players, this is activist. what's going on in hong kong, that's activism. not wearing t-shirts, not tweeting out. that's activism. putting something on the line. risking life and limb. that's activism. what i'm hoping, when these guys come back, they're now sober. they are really sober and, secondly, you know, the nba is chasing these global markets. and it's one thing to tap into the market. when you tap into the mark eyou have to tap into all this insanity and cultural nuances that go with it. what they'll be doing, now we're going into india, africa. this is just the beginning.

so you just can't have it both ways. so this is a wake-up call. >> help me understand the cultural difference between the nfl, the nba league, how is this different than it's happening within the nba and not like what we saw in the nfl recently? >> one is the amount of money in china. the nfl doesn't have that global appeal. that ten cent deal is $1.5 billion over ten years. that's $300 million. and to get that $300 million, the nba has to do nothing. the nba has to hit return on a computer so that they can play their game. it's an amazing amazing deal. still, they are a tv deal with the u.s. networks for $2.5 billion. so it's but a fraction of the amount of money they make from china. the nfl also has a top-down dictatorial policy with its players whereas the nba is seen as the woke league or as -- >> in theory. >> not after this. >> first, the thing that you just said, the very simple true thing that daryl morey was

right, that is something that has -- that no one in the nba has articulated. they're still in china. let us get back and maybe they'll be able to see that. no one said, of course the protesters are right. appallingly, no one on espn which is about a third of all sports coverage at least has articulated that because they can't, because disney, not only does deals with china, literally is a business partner with the chinese government at disneyland shanghai. so there's been this oppression of what you've been able to say about this. >> step back. this is about nba teams. the nba in china but this is something companies of all stripes face. >> 1997, hollywood -- and that was disney and sony got the -- got this treatment from china and they -- and that was when they were still early emerging market for them and they backed off apologized because they had a movie out that was pro-dalai lama. this is not new. the concern i have comes back to

this conversation between capitalism or democracy. >> right. >> right? because this was where, okay, is it capitalism or is it a democratic capitalism? because that means freedom of expression. that means freedom of political protest. and so if -- if our capitalism means that we will underwrite authoritarianism, then we're no longer about democracy. >> i'll let the lakers fan have the last word on this. >> still? >> still, still. >> the heart of this is just market values trump democratic values. just very clearly. and we see this in this particular example. and we see it in our country. right? when the market dictates how we value human beings. when the market dictates what we take to be the public good, when the market dictates how we understand human flourishing, we will see these sorts of choices made over and over again. and the right will be compromised and the good will be

compromised. >> thanks to my panel. thank you for coming in as well. i appreciate it. coming up next hour, joy reid digs into the latest reporting. what do you have here? a -- it's the anniversary. first year on the air. thank you all very much. thank you. it's like having a baby. you can measure it in years, not months. you feel better about it. i won't eat the whole thing right now. joy reid coming up. the ambassador that plans to share news that could be bad news for the president of the united states. ♪ head in now for applebee's new pasta & grill combos starting at $9.99. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective.

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say nhl center ice into your voice remote to upgrade for a great low price, or go online today. that does for me today. thank you for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. >> president trump has not only honored me with the job of being the u.s. ambassador to the eu but also given me other special assignmen assignments, including ukraine as i mentioned previously. we have what are called the three amigos. and they are secretary perry, again, ambassador volker and myself. we've been tasked with sort of overseeing the ukraine/u.s. relationship. >> good morning. good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." we got a packed, packed show for you today, including the latest on impeachment from congresswoman and house judiciary committee member

camilla jaipal. and turkish led forces. first, breaking news on a pivotal text exchange that's probably the worst news possible for donald trump. gordon sondland, the wealthy hotelier who trump named as u.s. ambassador to the european union after sondland donated a cool million to trump's inauguration fund is expected to testify to congress this thursday. defying orders by the white house and the state department that he not cooperate with the impeachment inquiry. the focus of the testimony will be those text messages in september between sondland and billy taylor, the acting ambassador to ukraine. to review, on september 9th, taylor texted sondland reacting to the administration withholding millions of dollars of military aid and a promised white house meeting in an apparent attempt to pressure ukraine into investigating joe and hunter biden.

taylor wrote, quote, as i said on the phone, i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. almost five hours later, an eternity in diplomat time, sondland texted back, bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions. the president has been crystal clear. no quid pro quos of any kind. the president is trying to evaluate whether ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that president zelensky promised during his campaign. i suggest we stop the back and forth by text. well, we now have more details on what happened in those five long hours between sondland's reply. according to a person with knowledge of sondland's planned testimony, sondland will say that he called the president in the interim and that it was trump who was the source of his language that there was no quid pro quo. sondland will reportedly say that he relied on the president's assurances in good

faith a