♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm geoff bennett. tonight things fall apart. as u.s. troops ready to depart northern syria turkey's troops advance. and things grow desperate with reports of isis sympathizers leaving camps and a key ally in the region put at risk by another ally. plus, impeachment intensifies as a former top ambassador testifies and another ambassador plans to tell congress it was president trump who told him there was no quid pro quo. and later tom steyer, amy

klobuchar, and beto o'rourke. i'll talk to a quarter of the presidential debate stage as elbows get sharper. but first president trump's twin agendas of stamping out isis and moving american troops of what he calls endless wars in the middle east are colliding in realtime. and the consequences could prove to be disastrous. 1,000 u.s. troops will be leaving northern syria and already the incursion of turkish troops and proxies has made for a dangerous state of play for kurds who have been critical u.s. allies. and with one american official saying u.s. forces are on the ground, are at an increased risk. treasury secretary steve mnuchin is vowing economic sanctions on turkey, but much of the video coming out of the region is graphic. like this after a reported attack in the situation is growing more dire in realtime. both for the kurds and for a potential reemergence of isis. this "new york times" journalist who is one of the most foremost reporters on the islamic state tweeted this today. she said you know that game kids

play on the beach the one where they spend all day building an elaborate sand castle only to stomp it to the ground? that's our isis strategy. joining me now is our panel. we have reuters white house correspondent jeff mason, former assistant deputy secretary of defense farkas, and msnbc political analyst kimberly atkins and msnbc news investigative correspondent ken dilanian. and, ken, i want to start with you because this disaster is unfolding. >> i had a briefing actually with a top counterterrorism official a few weeks ago and i asked him under what circumstances could isis resurge, become a greater threat to the united states. and he said if the counterterrorism pressure is taken away and the counterterrorism pressure was brought by our proxies, our allies in the region, the kurds

who we have now essentially sold down the river. and there's a long history of the united states portraying the kurds unfortunately. it goes back to henry kissinger. but every other time we've done it we've had a good geopolitical reason to do it. in this case it's opposite of good foreign policy. there is nothing that's being achieved here except a greater threat to the united states and europe and the destruction of our allies and our good name around the world as somebody who can't be relied on, geoff. >> richard engel has more from the region. take a look at his report. >> reporter: the u.s. is getting out of syria at the worst time. just as turkey is making rapid advances in its war against u.s. allies, the kurds of syria. advancing with the help of arab militias, the same ones we saw last night executing kurds by the roadside were added again today. u.s. officials tell nbc news and they say the militias include former members of al qaeda and

isis. so it seems turkey, a nato ally, is using alleged terrorists to attack the kurds who fought with u.s. troops against isis for four years and carved out their own unofficial little state in the process. now that autonomous zone the kurds called rojaba is collapsing. and as the turks and their militias put deeper into syria, the big news dropped like a bomb. nearly all of the 1,000 u.s. troops still in syria are leaving, announced by defense secretary mark esper. >> i spoke with the president last night. he directed that we begin a deliberate withdrawal. >> reporter: with no u.s. protection, the 2 million kurds in syria fear they will be ethnically cleansed by turkey and its militias. and isis is seizing this chaotic moment to regroup. hundreds of family members of isis fighters today broke out of a detention camp. we visited a prison packed with 5,000 isis detainees. there are now attempted

breakouts here daily. the warden told me if the guards need to leave and fight, they will just lock the cells and go. amid all this, president trump tweeting the kurds and turkey have been fighting for years. others may want to come in and fight for one side or the other. let them. a sign president trump is washing his hands of this war and the allies. the u.s. depended on to fight isis. and tonight facing an assault they cannot stop. kurdish forces called on syria's president bashar al assad an ally of russia, to deploy along the border. it's the end of kurdish self-rule here which they earned fighting alongside u.s. forces. a u.s. official told me it's a failure of american values, gives isis a new lease of life and helps america's adversaries. geoff? >> richard engel my thanks to you. evelyn farkas, you made the point earlier that going in was

one thing. but deploying. >> i taught marines at the command in the '90s and what you teach the military officers is -- i didn't teach them this actual operational stuff, but what i learned listening to my colleagues is it's more dangerous withdrawing from a conflict than when you're going in. and this idea that it's a deliberate withdrawal. it's not deliberate. there is barely any notice for these service members. there aren't a lot of them to begin with. i understand why they now need to take them out. but i'm sorry, but our president put them in harm's way in the first place. so this is going to be very tricky for them. and, you know, and i also can well imagine the morale problem within dod. >> what's the response from the military brass to all of this? >> i think the military brass, they are professional, they are going to do what the president said. but here's the thing. why are we asking the military to bail us out all the time? this is a diplomatic issue. there is the counterterrorism that ken talked about. and then there is the civil war. these things are connected.

they don't exist side by side unconnected. and we should have used the leverage we had by being on the ground there with these really good fighters to get something at the negotiating table, which would be more of a say in what happens to the kurds, more of a say in what happens to the isis fighters. but we manage to convert it into nothing. now we have no leverage, and frankly speaking, the civil war is not going to end just because assad and the russians roll in. because isis fighters are going to continue to fight assad, and then of course they are going to pour over into europe and don't think that america is invulnerable as well. >> we've heard the president say that he is going to try to destroy or would destroy turkey's economy. he is going to hold out the threat of sanctions. you were at the white house on friday when the treasury secretary first floated this notion. from a practical standpoint, how would that work? or is this just the white house trying to do damage control on the back end? >> that's a great question. i think certainly it's partially damage control. you saw that from the president immediately after that announcement, once republicans

in particular started criticizing him so heavily for making that decision. then he said, look, i've destroyed turkey's economy before, i can do it again. and friday was sort of the first step in that process if it ends up being a process by saying the president granted the treasury secretary this authority to put these big sanctions in place. but i think one of the first questions is does erdogan care? the threat of an economic sort of onslaught from the united states is perhaps not nearly as important to him as being able to achieve a geopolitical goal that he is doing by starting that incursion into syria. >> and, kimberly, there is a huge divide between congressional republicans and president trump on this issue. and it's not just elected republicans. it's conservative evangelicals who have stood by president, come what may, the scandal de jour who are saying that he has it wrong on this. >> right. you have this idea, it seems that president trump believes that this pull-out is fulfilling

a campaign promise to stop endless wars, to get out of them. he sees himself on the right side, which you're absolutely right. while he still does enjoy strong support within a republican base, there are people that are very upset about this that see this as a big problem geopolitically with respect to leaving our allies. that leaves them in a very precarious place. there are also a lot of people bipartisan folks in the foreign policy and national security areas that have been saying for a long time you need a political solution. they do want an end to these endless wars. you need a political solution to pull out, not just this america-first let europe deal with this approach that donald trump has em prased that has made the situation much worse. as you said isis is on the rise. president trump campaigned against isis. and now it's on the rise. it's doing exactly the opposite of what he said it would do. >> in fact, remember when he accused obama of creating isis? >> right. >> and, you know, there is a

legitimate criticism of obama's withdrawal from iraq, republicans in particular have said, you know, we took our eye off the ball there, and that's when isis was prominent. that's exactly what intelligence officials believe will happen again. in terms of how is the military going to react to this? i hear military sources they are ashamed. special operators in the region said, look, i trusted these people with my lives and they are now being killed with weapons that we provide to turkey, our nato ally. >> and this is an all-volunteer military. if they are ashamed and they leave the military, especially special operations forces we lose a lot as a country. >> it's a political vulnerability too. the president had a lot of support from military members in 2016. he loves to talk about his support among veterans. he's done a lot for veterans or likes to talk a lot about having done a lot for veterans. if he starts losing people in the military that would be a big shift. >> so what does the cleanup look like? where do we go from here? >> it's so ironic that we are

talking about sanctioning turkey when we could have just said don't do it. we have a lot of leverage over turkey. but it looks like that there will be some sanctions whether that stops the turks is another matter. but i was talking to a western intelligence official tonight who said, you know, all bets are off now. we don't even have air supremacy necessarily in all parts of that region anymore. so it's like, you know, all these people who are escaping from the camps it's not like they can be bombed. so there is just a real concern now about foreign fighters flying back to europe, terrorist threat to the united states, more chaos. and i don't think the united states has any further leverage to do much about it. >> and with the kurds now the kurds are turning to people like bashar al assad. they are turning to russia for their protection. united states is leaving a void that is being filled by the united states' enemies. >> and there is also this distekt too because the president says he wants to end endless wars. and just the other day on the south lawn he talks about how he

is going to send troops to saudi arabia. >> so u.s. forces as mercenaries. >> exactly. that's what i was going to say. we are not a mercenary military. and this is not what our volunteer military signs up to do, right? the other problem is that we should not get in the middle of iran and saudi arabia because the reason saudi arabia is feeling threatened is because of their missile tanker, missile exchange with the iranians. and i don't want to go down that rabbit hole right now. but we don't need to get involved in that. there was a tit for tat, hopefully it's not going to escalate beyond that, sending u.s. troops there is not going to make saudi arabia more safe. it actually creates uncertainty about what we are doing and could actually make the situation more dangerous. >> all right.

we are just getting started tonight. 12 presidential candidates will be on the debate stage tuesday night in ohio as we sort of shift gears here. three of them join me tonight. first billionaire activist tom steyer who is making his debate debut. you see him right there. we'll talk to him as his call for impeachment steams ahead in the u.s. house. we'll be right back. house we'll be right back. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ pain happens. saturdays happen. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it.

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the right thing right now is to get all the evidence out and what impeachment means is

bringing him to trial so we can get all this out. there is a question about whether a country which is absolutely against our interests hacked our election. that is something that has got to come out. but what we know for sure is the president of the united states, by his own words, has obstructed justice. >> that was tom steyer in 2016, a whole two years before he officially launched his presidential campaign. now he is making his debate stage debut. joining me now is 2020 presidential candidate tom steyer. good to see you. >> geoff, thanks for having me. >> right on. and with this being your first debate, what is your game plan for introducing yourself to voters who might not be familiar with you? >> look, geoff, i think most voters don't know me, and my goal on tuesday is simply to explain why i'm running for president, what i stand for and

a little bit about who i am. >> on tuesday cory booker's campaign they sent out a fundraising email that read in part tom's ability to spend millions of his personal wealth has helped him gain in the polls like no one else in this race. and that reminded me of a tweet from governor steve bullock back in august. it said the dnc donor requirements created a situation in which billionaires can buy their way onto the debate stage. so how do you respond to the criticism that you are essentially trying to buy your way into the presidency or at least into the nomination of the democratic party? >> geoff, if the worst thing anyone says about me is that i put my time and my heart and soul and my money where my values are, then i'll accept that. look, i started a business and built it from one room with no employees and no windows into a multibillion dollar international business.

and i took the given pledge to give away at least half of my money while i'm alive to good causes. when i saw the climate crisis besetting america, i started nextgen america to raise consciousness and to organize people around climate. when i saw the most corrupt president in american history, i started the need to impeach movement to bring him to justice to drag washington to hold him to account. now i see a broken government in washington, d.c., which has been bought by corporations, which has abandoned the people. and i feel as if it's my duty once again to try and break that corporate stranglehold and do what's right. if that's the worst thing you are ever going to accuse me of i am proud to say i'm doing truly. >> i want to draw you out on that because part of your platform is focused on, you know, battling corporate greed. as a billionaire, what have you done or what are you planning to do on a personal level to reduce

income inequality? >> look, if you look at what i stand for, i'm one of the first people of the democrats to push for a wealth tax. i want to restore the inheritance tax. i would undo all of the republican reductions in corporate taxes. but more than that, i believe that there has been a 40-year attack on working people in the united states that it's been a specific attack on organized labor for 40 years. and i believe if we break this corporate stranglehold on our democracy, one of the things we have to do is make sure that the way people earn the way the money is distributed in our society is much fairer and more equitable. so i have a history of ten years of organizing coalitions to take on that unchecked corporate power. go take a look. with the american people i have taken on the oil companies.

i've taken on the tobacco companies. i've taken on the monopoly utilities. i've taken on the drug companies. and with the american people we've won. take a look over the last ten years, successful from the outside, from the grassroots taken on these corporations and won. you'll see it's me. >> all right, tom steyer, thank you so much for your time. and when we come back the latest reporting on what a top ambassador says he knew and didn't know about pressuring ukraine to investigate the biden family. and as we go to break on the campaign trail, with the cable pundit in chief, "kasie dc" is back after this. >> what a great group, ainsley and steve. and by the way brian's gotten a lot better. jess gentlemen waters, john hannity, laura ingram, the great lou dobs. i would be in such trouble if i forgot -- i'm just rattling some

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restoring control and harmony, once thought to belost forever. the most personal technology is technology with the power to change your life. the u.s. ambassador to the e.u. gordon sondland is expected to testify before congress this thursday after initially saying he couldn't because the state

department told him not to. but sondland now intends to comply with the house subpoena and a key part of his testimony will be about text messages from september that he exchanged with the acting ambassador to ukraine bill taylor. in one exchange if you remember this, taylor texted sondland about the administration withholding millions of dollars of military aid in an apparent attempt to get ukraine to investigate joe and hunter biden. taylor writes, quote, as i said on the phone i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. several hours later, five hours later, almost five hours, anyway, sondland responds with this. bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions. the president has been crystal clear no quid pro quos of any kind. now a source familiar with sondland's upcoming testimony tells nbc news that he plans to tell lawmakers that he sent that message after a phone conversation with president trump himself and that he, quote, relied on the president's assurances in good faith. that source says that sondland

did not doubt the president or he wouldn't have reassured taylor that he had no independent knowledge about whether or not there was really a quid pro quo. jeff mason, evelyn farkas are back. sondland is about to blow a whole in president trump's self-defense because he said he got it all right in that text message and now gordon sondland is saying. >> the president assures me he didn't steal the money. this is a critical part of the impeachment inquiry. as adam schiff said this morning they have established from the transcript that the president was in the view of the democrats pressuring a foreign leader to investigate his opponents. what is still in question is whether he was essentially extorting ukraine, leveraging this foreign aid. there is a lot of evidence that he was, but it's not iron clad proof as of yet.

to present this case to the public if in fact that's what happened that donald trump leveraged military aid that ukraine desperately needed. and people in the bureaucracy were so confused about why it was being held up that the department of defense was according legal action. the state department had no idea what was going on. this is evelyn's old office. it was a complete mystery and it appears to have been held up by the white house and omb. >> and what makes gordon sondland different is that he's not a career diplomat. he knows about quid pro quo because he gave a million dollars to trump's inauguration. but this is a trump guy who is now saying that he can't vouch for president trump. >> i think what's so weird here, and i don't think very many people have noticed this, is why is an ambassador even calling the president? that's not normal. normally he would be calling the secretary of state. now maybe he already talked to the secretary of state. i don't know. the key thing is we need him

also to tell him what did he talk about with pompeo. he seems to be the fixer guy. but i also sense pompeo is a fixer. pompeo was in on the phone call. did sondland get a read-out or was sondland listening to the phone call? it's highly unusual because as many people have pointed out, ukraine is not in the european union. he did no business doing this extra job. it really smells like a michael cohen kind of job. and here again another trump administration official cooperating now, testifying before congress even though the white house has said we are not going to cooperate with your impeachment investigation. >> right. the white house was trying to shut this down. the state house was trying to shut this down. but this is serious stuff. this is testifying before congress. and i think people are starting to realize that that could come with real consequences. i think there might be a little bit of cya going on here, and you have csondland making the decision not only to come forward and testify but also doing so in a way that says

don't blame me. and i think you might see more of this. and i think this is a signal of what's ahead. >> and the other thing is they can't really lie to congress because the feds are involved now. i mean, this whole case involves giuliani and these two guys who are under indictment. >> theres a lot of potential liability. >> speaking of rudy giuliani, meantime the "new york times" times reports that the southern district of new york is investigating rudy giuliani where once upon a time he himself was a u.s. attorney, actually led that office. do i have that right? >> yes. >> thanks, team. that's according to two people familiar with the inquiry. he is under scrutiny by the sdny. according to "the times," prosecutors are investigating whether he broke lobbying laws in his dealings with ukraine as well as his efforts to undermine marie yovanovitch, the times reports that giuliani has denied

wrongdoing but acknowledged that he did work with ukrainian prosecutors to collect potentially damaging information about yovanovitch and other targets of the president including joe and hunter biden. "the times" writes, quote, mr. giuliani said that federal prosecutors had no grounds to charge him with federal lobbying because he said he was acting on behalf of mr. trump, not the ukrainian prosecutor when he collected information on ms. yovanovitch and the others. all right. so jeff mason, the other day, president trump seemed to suggest that he and giuliani were on the outs. but just yesterday, saturday. >> saturday, yes. [ laughter ] >> we have to think what day it is. but just yesterday president trump and his outside attorney were having lunch at trump golf course. >> that's right. there were lots of questions at the end of the week when the president sort of gave mixed signals as to whether or not he was holding on to giuliani. obviously you have the precedent of the president having distanced himself or cut ties

completely with other people who were either associates of his, members of his campaign, members of his white house when they got into some trouble. don't look like he's doing that now with giuliani. the fact that the president has sent out supportive tweets suggests that he's sticking by his man. but that man certainly is in the middle of everything right now tied to ukraine and the things that have sparked this impeachment inquiry. >> you had sort of the distinct pleasure of covering the ins and outs of the russia investigation and then all of this. democrats say that what happened here is simple and straightforward. they are going to proceed quickly with making the case against president trump. from everything that you know about both cases and everything that you've reported, everything that you've watched, do you think democrats have it right, or do they run the risk of getting involved in this investigation that just you get all of these names you can't pronounce and all of these contacts you can't remember, and it just becomes this muddled mess. >> i think there is a risk of that. but i also think this is a much simpler narrative and we have all seen the transcript of the call and we are all hearing about what happened with this

military aid. i think one of the issues with the mueller investigation though is that it overpromised and underdelivered. there was talk of family members being indicted. people actually started to believe that there would be a smoking gun linked to russia. that wasn't the case. whether there was obstruction of justice or not, the public kind of collectively shrugged. i don't think they are shrugging with this story. and i think the polls are showing that really gaining momentum here by people thinking that trump did something wrong that, an impeachment inquiry is appropriate. >> reading through the opening statement that we got. do you want to weigh in? >> i want to weigh in because i want to defend the mueller investigation a little bit and congress because we've never seen the counter intelligence investigation that was done of president trump and his campaign. these grand jury documents are now going to be released thanks to judge amy berman. maybe i got her name wrong. there is another last name in there. >> we will google it during the break. >> so i don't think maybe not smoking gun, but there is more

information i think there. anyway, sorry. >> i was going to say reading through the opening statement that we got from marie yovanovitch. one of the things that resonated with me when she talked about how the state department has been hollowed out by a tax from within from the apolitical career folks. and i know you signed an open letter to secretary pompeo. what was your lasting impression reading through her opening statement? >> i mean, exactly what i would have expected her to say because i also worked with her in the obama administration. then later as a consultant and a thinktanker. she is a straight arrow. she really believes in doing the nation's work. she, you know, took her oath to the constitution, to the american people. and she knows what our national interest is and having these two renegade guys and giuliani running around pretending to do her business was highly disruptive. and the worst part of it was that they were trying to inject corruption. this is separate from the hunter biden stuff. but they were trying to inject corruption into the ukrainian natural gas company which was actually one of the few areas

where the ukrainians had rooted out corruption. >> all right. jeff mason, ken dilanian, thanks to all of you. after the break i am joined by amy klobuchar of minnesota she has called what's happening in syria tonight immoral and wrong. stay with us. ith us ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more.

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and i want to start with the unfolding crisis stemming from president trump allowing the turkish incursion into northern syria. i know you've been to several middle-eastern countries in your capacity as a u.s. senator. you've been to the border and turkey. so how would you rectify his decision? what will the cleanup in that region look like? >> he has done something so immoral. he didn't have to do this. he didn't have to give into erdogan. he literally could have, over time, negotiated this, worked on it, and not set up our allies. literally people that stood by our side, people that had been willing to stand with us in the fight against isis. he let them out for slaughter. kids have been killed. now we know that isis fighters have gotten out. and you think about this fact. he didn't have to do this, just like he didn't have to get out of the iranian agreement or the climate change agreement or suck up to vladimir putin every

single day. he does not put our country first. he does not put our allies first. and my problem with all of this, if you're sitting over there in israel, you start to wonder is america really our ally? or if you are sitting in ukraine right now knowing that we have stood up for them when russia invaded their country, you wonder the same thing. and we need a president who is going to put america first and not their business or political issues first. and as we sit here in ohio in the middle of the heartland, the heartland where i grew up, i think we need some common sense and we need a president that's going to put america first. that's the case i'm going to make to the ohio democrats tonight. >> let's talk about the heartland because i think our focus on the middle east and the impeachment and the trump scandal du jour. one of the things that gets far less attention than it should is the crisis surrounding the delivery of quality health care. and i'm not talking about medicare for all. i am talking about the rising number of hospital closures in rural areas. some of it's associated with

those states that didn't take medicaid expansion under the aca. but help us understand the challenge there and how you would address it. >> sure. and i just met with the mayor of dayton today, the one that stood up after the horrific mass shooting in her town. we did an event with people in dayton. and one of the things that came up there. this was an urban hospital that was closing down in an african-american neighborhood. so it isn't just rural. it's really all over our country. what the unique challenge of rural is you have people that are completely shut out from any kind of health care. they can't deliver babies. they have nowhere to go for an emergency room. and it's not one size fits all. so first of all supporting our critical access hospitals which allow rural hospitals to continue in small towns. and then secondly i have a bill to designate emergency rooms so these hospitals can stay open at least for that purpose along with some more straightforward

care. otherwise you're going to completely cut off people from emergency care and really hurt our rural areas across the country. it's just one of many problems that the president isn't dealing with because he's decided to use all this clout in trying to look for dirt in his political opponent which is what he did when he called the head of china, when he called the new president of ukraine. and again i'm making the case in rural suburban and urban areas that we need a president that puts people first. >> about that. house speaker nancy pelosi has said with the president already admitted to. that in itself is an impeachable offense. in your view is there enough evidence to impeach president trump in a senate trial? you are one of the senators running for president so you will eventually potentially be a juror. >> well, yes. well, obviously i believe there is impeachable evidence or wouldn't have called for this proceeding. i don't know what every single count is that will come before us, and i'll make a decision then. but, again, this is really

serious. this is not relitigating the past election. this is ongoing conduct like a global watergate. he looks for dirt on his political opponents, asks foreign leaders for something of value, which is a violation of the law. and then in order to hide it they put the data on a super secret server so that people don't know that it's there. it's one thing after another. and to me the president is escalating his behavior. you are starting to see republicans turn on him clearly when it comes to syria and the bloodshed there. but also you have a few of them coming forward to say that we should go forward with this impeachment proceeding. so my important point right now is that while this impeachment proceeding goes on, we have to continue to make the case for an optimistic economic agenda for this country, for making health care easier to get, for bringing down the price of pharmaceuticals, for something doing about childcare, for

making it easier for people to go to college. so that is our job right now. and i'm a mom, i can do two things at once. >> all right. senator amy klobuchar of minnesota, 2020 democratic presidential candidate, thanks for your time. and i guess i'll see you back on the hill out in the halls when you come back. >> i'll see you soon, geoff. thank you. in our next hour i will talk with former congressman beto o'rourke. but first the epa announces major plans to overhaul how communities test for lead in water. but some environmentalists say the new rules do nothing to address the root of the problem. i will speak with an attorney who represented children in flint affected by the contaminated toxic water there. e cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty...

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this week the epa proposed new federal regulations on lead and copper in drinking water for the first time since 1991. the proposed rules would require water utilities to create a publicly available inventory of all the lead pipes that have water pumping through them. in calls for notification within 24 hours if heightened lead levels are found. that's opposed to 30 days which is what's currently called for. it would require that schools and childcare facilities be tested for lead.

so that sounds pretty good, right? well, not entirely because "the washington post" reports that environmental advocates are concerned that the new rules do not take, quote, the most important step requiring the steady removal of the estimated 6 million or more lead service lines that remain underground throughout the nation. the "new york times" reports the proposed new rule would also quote, more than double the amount of time allotted to require the pipes that contain high levels of lead. here to talk with me about this new proposal and much more about the lead crisis in flint, michigan, is attorney lindsay heck that assure children affected by the toxic water are getting the help they deserve. so what are you making of these new epa regulars? >> we believe they should be updated. they haven't been updated in decades. we think there is an advancement in certain areas. we support stricter standards

for testing especially in schools. but there is a major drawback as you discussed. and that's that they more than doubled the time that's currently allotted to actually fix the pipes that are leeching lead. and that's highly problem, becae know that whenever you hear the word lead, it's an urgent call to action. time is of the essence. and that's because lead is a potent neurotoxin that affects the brain, learning, memory and behavior. that's what we've seen with the crisis unfolding in flint. many people know that there's a public health crisis in flint. but they may not realize that there's also an educational emergency in flint, and because medical intervention cannot completely counter lead's affects, education really is the answer. >> and in your firm through a lawsuit you filed helped create a model for what people should do, what cities and towns should do if they have to find themselves in the situation like flint where you have these kids

who were poisoned by this lead water. tell us about what you ultimate ended up doing. >> that's what we intend to do. we know that flint is singular in some respects. it's an extraordinary example of community wide. there are more flints out there. we're trying to create a model and precedent to help the people in flint, but that can be used elsewhere. we've seen in flint because schools need to be at the front lines of a response to the crisis, they need to be well resourced and high functioning. and in flint they're failing the community and the students in three key areas that we are intent on redressing. the first is that they have failed to identify students with disabilities. the second is they've failed to provide key programs and services to the students to address their disabilities and the third is that they blame and punish the students for behavioral manifestations of the same disabilities. our model so far has to focussed on identifying students with

disabilities because of our lawsuit we have a new $4 million center in flint. that's ground breaking, state of the art, provides universal screening to all 30,000 children in flint, and it has neuropsych exams available. the only test that has calibrated to detect led's impact. we believe it creates an important resident that can be used elsewhere. but, of course, we know that identifying the children, it's absolutely foundational, but it's only the first step. we then, we want to understand the scope of their needs so we can meet them with programs and services. >> and you touched on this. it's not just flint. it's newark, new jersey. at one point it was washington d.c. it's providence, rhode island. all the major cities have lead in their water to varying degrees. help us understand the scope of this crisis. >> that's right. it's a nationwide crisis. unfortunately the american tragedy in flint is not confined to that one city. and we know that these cities have crumbling and deteriorating

infrastructures. that's why the model we're creating is so important. and flint provides a very important lesson when you look at the time line. the state of michigan, it poisoned children for at least 18 months. and it denied that it was doing so. and in october of 2015, or the fall of 2015 when they finally publicly acknowledged that there was a crisis, that was the key moment. that was the inflection point to funnel resources into the school, to prepare for needs. not only did the state of michigan fail to do that. in fact, they forced the district to freeze teacher wages, making it noncompetitive, and three years later, by october 2018 we ended up with a district where one in five children need special education services, and one in four special education teacher positions is unfilled. >> yeah. so lindsey, now that we're all fired up, what can people do about it to learn more ar to help people in flint affected

this way. >> absolutely. the major thing that we can do is certainly encourage the families who have let us tell their stories so we can get this $4 million center. please, fully take advantage of this center. get your children tested. that will provide you with the ammunition to get the services that they need, and we will fight to make sure that they get the services required under law. >> lindsey with the law firm white and case. thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up i'll talk one on one with presidential candidate beto o'roarke. plus documents fly with nine subpoenas from the trump administration. will it prove to be more than a paper tiger and of course, our team of producers watches the sunday shows so you don't have to, and tonight at 9:00, trump and ukraine impeachment crisis. it's a look into the impeachment inquiry and where it's headed. and at 10:00 in a new episode of on assignment, trump and ukraine, fact and fiction. richard engel explores what rudy giuliani and the trump

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welcome back to casey d.c. dealing with a crisis like the one in syria would be difficult for an administration in a normal political era. that is not where the trump administration finds itself right now. day five of turkey's attacks falls on day 20 of the impeachment inquiry into president trump.

and now as nearly 1,000 american troops are preparing to evacuate syria, the situation there is deteriorating quickly. reports of human rights atrocities are emerging and close to 800 members of a camp holding the families of isis fighters have escaped after turkish shelling. it's a dire situation that would benefit from the full and unwavering attention of the commander in chief. it's hard to attention he isn't focussed on the dream beat of impeachment, including news this weekend that the u.s. ambassador to the eu intends to tell congress this week that the content of a text message he wrote denying any quid pro quo with ukraine was conveyed to him correctly by president trump. i'd like to welcome our panel this our. with me is jake sherman, and

karine jean pier. she has a new book. also with me brendan buck, and washington examiner senior political correspondent david drugger. david, i want to start with you. unpack this conundrum for us. you have president trump catching it from republicans, catching it from evangelical leaders on the syria issue. the same people he needs to have supporting him as he faces this impeachment issue. >> right. i don't think any one thing is going to have anything to do with the other as far as congressional republicans are concerned. the one area where they have consistently been willing to confront trump and rebuke him is on matters of foreign policy. we saw it going all the way back to 2017 when they passed veto proof legislation in a republican house and republican senate to limit the president's ability to negotiate deals with vladimir putin and russia, among other things. this is not that surprising. i don't think it should be surprising either to voters that

the president is doing this in syria. he campaigned as a president who did not believe in projecting american power abroad. he does believe in a robust military. he does not believe in projecting american power. this is something he said he would do, and so i think the question now is is the political calculus different going forward? does the specter of impeachment create a different political atmosphere in which this becomes a larger problem for him than it might have otherwise been? because voters generally across the spectrum, if they don't like trump, there's a lot about it, but his foreign policy, hesitancy to use american power hasn't been one of his problems but it's possible given the strong words from republicans that this will seep into the 2020 campaign. we've seen some democratic presidential candidates have strong words for him. it will be curious to see in the upcoming presidential debate if they present a foreign policy vision that includes saying i would not do this if i were president. >> jake sherman, what do you think about that?

do you think one of the reasons why republicans have been so quick to criticize president trump on the syria issue is they didn't think they were able to do it on ukraine so they're letting off steam here? >> i think they didn't know anything about i. most of them think it's the wrong decision. if you look at this from abroad, think about the message our allies are getting from the united states. half of the government, the president's party, and the opposition party, are against a major decision he made in a theater in which we were very involved up until a week ago. the pentagon has sent signals of it. thinks it's not the best idea according to the reporting. i think this is a mess from a political point of view. typically when presidents make decisions of this magnitude in war zones and in form theaters, they come to capitol hill. the administration briefs committee chairs, and they have a discussion about the wisdom of that. not that the administration is deferring to congress, but they discuss it. they prepare it, and they have

talking points prepared. and strategy discussions. the president did none of that here. we had chairman of committee say i had no idea this was coming. so this is a complete mess from a political point of view in addition to the military hardship, and the -- or ally the kurds kind of being left out to dry and seeking help from syria or russia or whatever other power is willing to help them at this point. >> what's your take? >> i think that's right. this is not -- this is sort of a surprise announcement, but this is also that's been hanging out there for a long time. the president threatened to do this in march and it led to his defense secretary resigning. usually there's a communication that goes on. there was communication, it's been for a number of years republicans and democrats have told this administration that we need to have a strategy in this region. this is a bad situation. there's no easy answer to what's going on here. but for three years the administration has just sort of

drifted and we've had no strategy and eventually i guess the president decided he can throw in the towel on it. that's what happens when you don't figure out where you want to go and communicate with people about what you want to do. and as the consequences have been outlined, they're significant. i think you're a little right. i think some people were blowing off steam. i think there's a lot of republicans who are upset with the president for a lot of reasons. this is something that's been building. there's been a communication talking to this administration telling them they need to get their act together in this region. >> and as a democratic strategist, i'm sure you know well president trump has jumped from scandal to controversy and really paid no consequences for it. does this moment feel different to you? >> absolutely. especially when it comes to impeachment inquiry. t pretty clear what happened. right? he called a foreign government, the president of a foreign government, and the president of ukraine, and asked him to interfere in our election. that's pretty clear when it comes to impeachment inquiry. but i think when i look at syria

and the impeachment, there is something similar that donald trump does all the time which you guys alluded to it. there's no strategy. there's never a strategy with this president. right? and he's floundering. he's impulsive which is incredibly problematic. and yes, the reason senators were caught flat footed in familiar in syria. even though they may have been talking about it or the trump administration may have been alluding to it. lindsey graham, the thing he's the most upset about it, he didn't know and didn't have the opportunity to step in and tell the president no. and so here's what's going to happen. they all come back next week and as jake knows, they're all going to be asked questions. >> tuesday, this week. >> yeah. i meant to say this week. i forgot. it's sunday. right. it's sunday. but they're all going to be asked on the impeachment inquiry. they're going to be asked hey, is it okay for the president of the united states to ask a foreign government to interfere in our elections. they're going to be asked that question and asked about syria.

and so -- and they should be asked that question. and we'll see what they say. we saw what happened with cory gardener, u.s. senator from colorado who is up for reelection in 2020. so this is the questions and this is what republicans are going to have to deal with. >> and jeff, jake touched on this. this is a big deal. they are paying attention to this president's moves in moscow, beijing and tehran. and what they're telling other countries in the region that they are pressuring and leaning on and trying to win over is you cannot trust the americans. they will bug out. they will make commitments to you that they will not keep. so if you can mess with us, fine. we're not going anywhere. those guys are fair weather friends and that's a real problem for american foreign policy going forward. it's not so much are we there or not there, but if we're there and we've made commitments to do something in this manner, actually creates the kind of problems that most american politicians are trying to prevent which are wider conflicts that draw us in with no end in sight. >> one other thought.

we haven't seen how this plays publicly. congress comes back if there's a drum beat of people close to trump who speak out against this in loud, forceful voices, maybe the president reconsiders. he's reconsidered other moves in the military. this is off topic. china trade deal. we haven't seen how fox plays that and how some of his allies take it in. and i think that will be important to know to consider when thinking about whether he's going to continue going down this path. >> there may be sanctions that come from congress. the damage is done. i mean, the isis fighters have been captured. they're gone. the bloodshed is happening. our credibility is lost. we can do sanctions. it's already happening. this is going to be over in a matter of days. >> sanctions as political cover means not a whole lot. >> yeah. and donald trump owns it. reowns what's going on in syria. i have to say i think when you think of syria and the impeachment inquiry, they're both national security issues. impeachment inquiry is a national security impeachment

inquiry. and syria what's happening as we know is a foreign policy disaster. and so republicans are really going to have to speak to that. because they have been the party of national security according to them. >> and let's talk about impeachment. because this week we expect to hear from fiona hill, not we, we expect them to talk behind closed doors to the relevant committees. and msnbc news confirmed the thrust of what they're going to does. that rudy giuliani was freelancing outside the normal accomplished channels that you'd normally use to elevate u.s. policy and u.s. interests abroad. and then the point that when he said no quid pro quo in the text message, he was reiterating, president trump, but he makes the point as it's reported here that he had no way of independently verifying that. so where do you think this impeachment inquiry leads based on the testimony we've had from

as a rule ke volcker, hill, sonland. >> i think you see in recent says some democrats want to widen it saying listen, there's a lot the president has done that deserves impeachment. why are we picking this one phone call and honing in on that? a few notes of caution for democrats that a lot of democrats are talking about. they need to get into the public at some point. they need to hold public hearings to make -- this is -- what they've said all along is they need to make the case to the american people. they're not going to make that case with us standing outside the room. you know, doing live hits from outside of a closed committee room. they have to get in front of people, and then they want to do it by thanksgiving. that seems very rushed to me. and will open the door to kevin mccarthy and the nrcc saying they impeached your president without any hearings in a couple weeks. >> and adam schiff made the

point on one of the sunday shows the reason it's behind closed doors is he doesn't want the witnesses trying to coordinate their testimony. your point is well taken. if impeachment is a political process, you got to bring the public along at some point. meantime according to his lawyer, hunter biden will step down from a chinese backed private equity firm. in a statement his attorney added hunter makes the following commitment. under a biden administration hunter will comply with any and all guidelines or standards of president biden may issue to address purported conflicts of interest or the appearance of such conflicts. that development is after a weekend in which the president zeroed in on hunter biden and debuted a new catch phrase. >> what ever happened to hunter? where is he? >> where's hunt snefr. >> where's hunter? >> where's hunter? >> remember? where's hunter? >> where's hunter? >> where is hunter, by the way? >> where's hunter? okay. get us, where is hunter?

>> where's hunter? >> you know, the number one t shirt sell right now is where's hunter? >> the trump campaign is selling a where's hunter t shirt on its campaign website. meantime, here's the former vice president, here's what he had to say about his son earlier this evening in iowa. >> first of all, no one, no one has indicated of any consequence that anything was done wrong or illegally by me or by my son. this is the president's flat lying, number one. number two, the statement my son put out today which i saw when he put it out, i was told there was one being put out. i did not consultant on what was being put out. in fact, represents the kind of man of integrity he is and what, in fact, he has done and why he stepped down. >> so have democrats learned anything from trump's attacks on hillary clinton that can be instructive now given trump's attacks on joe biden and hunter

biden? >> apparently not. >> all right. that's our show for tonight. >> i just -- you know, you can't play the game that donald trump is laying out. you just can't. he is -- this is -- i mean, this ukraine thing, this impeachment inquiry, it's so clear. i mean, he admits doing it. rudy giuliani admits doing it. he never denied it. well, of course he does back and forth, but it's clear what's going on. this is on donald trump. and what he's trying to do is he's trying to, you know, he's trying to pivot, put it on biden and hunter biden, and you can't let him play that game. if i were them, i would be just hitting donald trump about what he's doing, about trying to be above the law, asking a foreign government to interfere in our elections. that's the play here. it's clear cut. it is so clear, and i just -- i feel like what they're doing is just playing into a dangerous, dangerous place that may just hurt him. >> brendan, the white house put

out talking points on friday. and again, sent them to democratic offices mistakenly. we got a copy of them. if you read through them, the points the white house made was attacking adam schiff on process. it was like herkd not have yo vaughn vich there behind closed doors. he should have a state department lawyer because it's against long standing protocol. what you didn't see was a defense of president trump on the underlying point. >> i think that's what you're going to continue to see. i've talked to a number of people on the hill, that's the strategy. criticize the process. they can't defend the substance so they're not going to. republicans and congress have done a good enough job convincing the base the fix is in. they're out to get him. you see polling out now, i think the cbs poll the question was to republican -- they asked the questions of republicans, should congressional republicans defend

the president or criticize him? it was 7-0. it's important to appreciate that what republican voters back home, they're hearing this conversation very differently than you hear it in a lot of the mainstream media. the news they're getting directly from the president or seeing on facebook or networks, the conversation is different than elsewhere. what members are congress are seeing are people back home who just want to know why aren't you sticking with the president. i think that's where you see the republicans having awkward interviews where they're unwilling to talk about it. because there are people that they represent who are furious if you cross the president on this kind of thing. >> more to come. we'll get a live report from turkey's border as the situation goes from bad to worse. but first, i talked to presidential candidate beto o'roarke ahead of this week's presidential debate. plus producers watch the sunday shows so you don't have to. y shows so you don't have to

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joining me now is former texas congressman and democratic presidential candidate beto o'roarke. congressman o'roarke, it's good to see you. thanks for your time this evening. >> thanks for having me. really appreciate it. >> and you have of late been adding to the marketplace of ideas on the democratic side. the latest one is vowing to reject the -- including colleges, churches and charities. first, how would you do that? the federal government can't just dole out punishments on

theological grounds. >> to be clear, you are free to believe anything that you want to in this country. to associate with whom you please, to practice your faith as you best see fit. but you are not allowed to discriminate against people in this country. to violate their civil rights or their human rights. and so what i'm talking about is making sure that we follow the letter and the spirit of the law. and that as president i will sign into law the equality act to make sure that we do not deny the civil rights and human rights of any of our fellow americans based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. this is not a new concept in american life. we know that bob jones university, a religious nonprofit tax exempt institution had its tax exempt status revoked for denying entry and equal treatment to african american students.

so that's the analogy that i see today. if any institution if any nonprofit organization is going to deny services or equal treatment under the law to gay americans or members of the lgbtq community, then they're going to be breaking the law and we will hold them accountable. if they persist, we will withdraw their tax exempt status. >> so that is how you would thread the needle? because i'm sure you understand there's a lot of concern that a policy like that even people of good conscience who agree on the underlying point that conservative black churches, mosques, islamic organizations, orthod orthodox jewish communities, they could all lose their tax exempt status under such a plan. >> to be specific, the way that you practice your religion or your faith within that mosque or that temple or synagogue or church, that is your business, and not the government's business. but when you are providing services in the public sphere,

say, higher education, or health care, or adoption services, and you discriminate or deny equal treatment under the law based on someone's skin color or ethnicity or gender or sexual orientation, then we have a problem. and in my understanding and reading of the civil rights act, that's against the law today. certainly it will be for members of the lgbtq community once we sign into law the equality act, and again, with the precedent of bob jones university, if one of these nonprofit institutions persisted in that kind of discriminant treatment of our fellow americans, we would look at revoking their tax exempt status. politically, i wonder is this your way of trying to shift the terms of a debate as you did with gun control, for instance, when you called for a mandatory b buy-back of assault rifles. >> this is about being very

clear about what we believe in and if america is going to live up to the idea that we are all created equal than our laws, our practices, our policies have to follow suit. and what we know in this country right now is that many members of the lgbtq community are treated differently than other americans are. in texas, for example, you can be fired based on your sexual orientation. or denied the ability to adopt a child into a same sex partner household. so if we're going to make sure that america works for everyone, and that we bring in the genius and the diversity and the potential of every single american, we have to be very clear about what we stand for and what we're willing to do in p pursuit of the goals. whether it's this policy to stop discrimination in america or a policy on gun violence that does something to address the fact that 40,000 of our fellow americans lose their lives to gun violence every year, and that if it's wrong to sell ar-15s and ak-47s, weapons

designed for war, it's also wrong to leave 16 million in the communities. every single one of them a potential instrument of terror as we saw when the ak-47 was used against people in the community of el paso on august third. 22 killed because of a man fuelled by ray tread and rage and spiredddd -- inspired in pa by the president. poll tested and focus group driven, constrained by the nra and those they bought and paid for in congress. we've got to break free of that and see what we mean and believe and what we're willing to do to make sure this country is great for everyone. >> you invoke the name of the president. this thursday i understand you're holding a rally, a rally against fear. the point you say is to counter president trump's keep america great rally. the president is in dallas. this is the second time you've

held your own counterer programming aimed to draw attention away from president trump. what's your goal and message on thursday? >> yeah. this is a great chance on thursday for texas to turn out to stand up, to be counted. to defy the hatred and racism and the fear of donald trump. and to instead define ourselves. democrats, republicans, independents alike. as americans first before we are anything else. and we will be known because of that by our ambitions and our aspirations. and what we are willing to do together. that we don't see our differences as disqualifying or dangerous. we see them as fundamental to our success, our strength, and our safety, and our security as well. so we're calling on everyone to come out, not only to stand up against president trump and his fear and his hatred and the violence that seems to follow every time he holds one of these rallies, but to stand up for who we are at our best in this country. >> and before we get to thursday, we got to get through tuesday. that's the next democratic

debate. you're going to be one of 12 candidates on that stage. it's going to be a packed stage. how do you spend to stand out come tuesday? >> i just want to be very honest about what's happening in this country. very clear in describing what we have to do, and very decisive in the action we're going to take together. now, whether that's gun violence or climate change, or making sure that everybody can see a doctor or nobody has to work two or three jobs just to get by, i want to reflect those issues that my fellow americans have told me about as i traveled the country with the same urgency and passion that they describe their challenges and also the opportunities that we see. and the fact that any of the solutions that we're talking about must involve all americans. we can't discount or disqualify people based on who they voted for last time or where they live in this country or any of those differences between us. we've got to bring people into the solution to the greatest set of challenges we've ever faced into an america that can come together not only to defeat

donald trump but to heal the divisions that define us at this moment. >> beto o'roarke, thanks so much for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> when we come back, we'll get a live report as the kurds strike a deal with russia and syria amid a chaotic day where the u.s. announced a full withdrawal of troops from syria. ♪

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tonight a historic deal. the kurds aligning themselves with russia and syrian president bashar al assad. the deal paves the way for them to face off with turkish forces. it was announced shortly after the trump administration announced they're preparing a deliberate withdrawal of u.s. troops in the region. joining me is erin live for us along turkey's border with syria. erin, what's the latest? >> reporter: well, jeff, the situation is rapidly evolving tonight. we saw syrian forces enter the kurdish city of hasaka. they entered to sounds of celebration after their arrival. remember, the kurds were very

worried, very scared at the prospect of this turkish incursion. they're worried it would lead to an all out massacre of their people, which is why the kurdish sdf reached this deal tonight with asaad's forces welcoming them into north eastern syria. a deal to push back turkish forces, back beyond the border, but it does not come without a price. details of the deal are unclear at this point. but we did hear from a military leader, kurdish military leader saying that he was with deep reservation about all of this, that the kurds want democracy. they want freedom. they want western values, and they were looking to the u.s. for that. but they find themselves in a situation, he said, where they're completely alone. he said that he feels the international community has abandoned the kurdish people and so they had no choice but to look to bashar al assad, but key

questions remain. what will russia's involvement be in all of this? also what is turkey's response to this announced deal? will erdogan pull back or continue to push forward to create this safety zone, the so-called safety zone that he's been working on? will he confront asaad's forces in doing so. all those are open questions at this point. >> erin, thanks to you. you and your crew stay safe out there. when we come back, it seems like a simple question with a straightforward answer. is it appropriate for a president to ask a foreign government to investigate a political opponent? things are more complicated for republicans including some who are going to great pains to avoid answering that question at all. g that question at all. ♪

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do you believe it's appropriate for the president of the united states to ask a foreign power to investigate a domestic political rival? yes or no? >> yes or no? >> if this is what weir going to get into, there's an investigation. >> all of that information is going to go to senate intelligence. >> the senate intelligence committee has shown itself to be bipartisan. >> but is it -- >> is it appropriate just the ask itself? >> again, we don't have all the facts in front of us. >> let's get all the facts together and get the information. >> you see a partisan process taking place. >> we have a picture that's painted by media, and we don't know what's accurate or not. >> why won't you answer the

question? are you concerned about retribution? >> i am not. >> you know the debate. >> this is about the politics of the moment. that's why they're trying to dual this out. >> we're not asking you to rule on it. we're asking if the ask itself is appropriate. >> right. for weeks now some vulnerable republicans have been twisting themselves into knots trying not to answer a question. is it appropriate for the president to ask a foreign entity to -- >> it is appropriate for the president or the united states to solicit foreign interference in our political process? >> of course no. no. it's absolutely not. >> the latest nbc wall street journal poll asked republicans whether they consider themselves to be more supporters of president trump or of the republican party.

for trump republicans 91% say there isn't enough evidence to hold an impeachment inquiry. but for party republicans, that number is at 58%. joining the conversation is also nbc news political reporter monica alba. the panel is back with me as well. david, help us understand this disconnect between trump republicans and party republicans. which party matters more when it comes to this impeachment question? >> i think for now the trump republicans matter more. because broadly the voters that are republican voters are satisfied with trump and they're not going to throw him overboard. but i think this is the key question to ask. if you notice -- in fact in the past ten minutes or so the president tweeted again this call was perfect. and there was nothing wrong with the call. and i think that the president is wrong there. and he, number one, has authenticated the transcript and said it's beautiful. so you can look at the transcript, the summary transcript released and this gets to the central question of how far impeachment can get and what kind of peril the president

is going to be in. he didn't just ask for intervention in the election or investigate someone in congress i don't like. biden might be his opponent in 2020. that's what who he asked ukraine to go after. that's why i've been asking republicans on the hill, some of them like to tell me that's not what he was doing. others say i wouldn't have done it. others won't answer the question. when you talk to democrats about this, at least democrats focus on national security, they take issue with the republicans claiming there was no quid pro quo. maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. they tell me the central issue here is the ask. and the ask is a big problem. and the fact that the president released the transcript has made the democrats' job so much easier. every time republicans make good points about process and when are you going to show more leg and are we going to have a vote? all they have to do is point to the transcript. >> monica, you cover the trump reelection campaign for nbc.

you have some new reporting about how the campaign is coming to president trump's defense on this impeachment issue. >> exactly. the campaign, of course, is a big part of the reelection effort. in addition there are outside groups and outside ideas. america first policies a nonprofit associated with the administration's policies is taking out a new one million dollar ad buy targeting the vulnerable house democrats. and these are law clemakers who in 2018 but in districts where the president was victorious. the swing districts are going to be critical as the impeachment inquiry heats up. and this is fascinating because it's not just going to be tv ad. it's going to also be online. and this is a sort of more narrow and strategic approach targeting these exact swing districts. listen to what one of these ads is going to look like which starts airing this week. >> better trade deals, delayed. stronger borders obstructed. funding for our troops,

incomplete. a do nothing congress focussed on a witch hunt, and your congresswoman is siding with them. >> so the ads as you see are a formula. it's an insert lawmaker name here. they're airing them in exact districts where the democrats were actually home and visiting for the last few weeks. they'll be back in session this coming week which you'll be covering closely. and what's fascinating is the ads are going to be echoing the president's message, specifically the witch hunt message. they're also taking a bit of a different tact. it's fascinating. as we look at the polling trending toward support for an impeachment inquiry. they're saying they see a different outcome. what we've seen is polling saying everything is trending in the opposite direction. it will be fascinating to see the sort of difference between that impeachment inquiry and actual questions of removal. but it is a gamble these democrats are taking and republicans are really hoping to

seize on it and exploit it and take advantage of that opening. >> yeah. and to monica's point, by our point there are seven democratic holdouts. they're holdouts far good reason. they're not trying to be targeted by ads like that. >> here's the thing. we're seeing historical numbers here with impeachment as -- an impeachment inquiry in particular. i mean, high numbers for it. which we didn't see before just a couple months ago. and the reason why is the more donald trump spins it y, the more retalhe talks about it, th worse he makes it for himself. here's the thing. i get republicans aren't quite there yet or they're not there at all with impeachment. but republicans are going to need more than just republicans to win. and you have independents that are swinging toward impeachment. this is a difficult place for republicans to be, and they have to decide are they going to hitch their wagon on their political career on donald trump? really? and so i actually think democrats are in a solid ground

here, and they have to just stick to the facts, and they have to talk about this illegal act that donald trump did when he asked once again asked a ukraine president to interfere in our elections. >> what do you think, jay? >> for an institution, the trump campaign and the white house that doesn't have a whole lot of strategy as we've been discussing, this is not a bad one. these districts, they're -- they're soft on impeachment. i mean, we see this with every wave election. people are representing districts they don't fit in from a mart zan point of view. and the campaign is trying to take advantage of that. it's not going to move any of these people. there's no chance. they're already in for the impeachment inquiry, but kevin mccarthy and house republicans and the trump campaign seem to be kind of honing in on the strategy that to win the house they have to flip the districts. the districts impeachment is not a winner. so this is not a bad strategy. while you look at the nationwide

polling, it is at 48%, 47% approval rating for impeachment. in these districts it's 20s or 30s. >> i agree this isn't going to change anybody's vote. i think this is the president sending a message, and this is we've seen the president many times. he doesn't play defense. he only plays offense. that's what this is. and this is the conversation, a shot across the bow to democrats at large. i'm not going to send here and take it. it's a strong message and not a bad message. >> and not a bad issue to play off aftof. >> and democrats have to explain why this isn't a russia investigation do over. when there are things that voters will say even in democratic primary, voters will say in polls they care about these other topics more in theory than they care about impeachment in terms of what they want to does. >> monica, my friend and colleague, thank you for your reporting. when we come back the next debate we'll have joe biden

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elizabeth warren leads joe biden across 18 early primary and caucus states. the cbs poll shows warren leading biden by six points across those states. the new numbers were released after biden took a thinly veiled swipe at warren. >> i want to take that vision and yes, the plans. but that's not enough. it takes proven ability to get things done. we're not electing a planner. >> and then this morning bernie sanders sought to draw a contrast of his own with warren. >> there are differences between elizabeth and myself. elizabeth i think as you know said she's a capitalist through her bones. i'm not. i am, i believe, the only candidate who is going to say to the ruling class of this country, the corporate elite, enough, enough with your greed and with your corruption. we need real change in this country. >> all right. what do we make of all this? >> well, look, i think this coming debate on tuesday we're

going to see a very different debate. you know, the first few debate we talked about there was immigration and health care, and now we have impeachment on the table. now we have what's going on in syria. and have a new front runner, it looks like, elizabeth warren. when you are the front runner, people are going to come for you. you also have another scenario where a lot of these candidates on the stage may not make it to the next one. so it will be a very interesting debate to see who is going to break out. but it will probably focus on the top three. >> who do republicans want to run against? i would hear joe biden is the one that scares the trump campaign or kamala harris because the trump campaign couldn't figure out to run against her without being overly sexist and/or racist. but based on the latest polling and everything we have seen over the last couple of weeks, which democrat do you think would give donald trump the hardest time? >> i still think it is joe

biden. obviously he thinks that, too, because he's been focussing his attention on him. what i wonder from the polling is whether enough democrats are starting to get second thoughts about whether he's up to the task. you know, that's what donald trump does. he puts doubt in people's heads about other people. and whether this attack that he's been making, whether it is about him or his son, whatever it may be, if you keep continuing to sustain that, whether it will send enough democrats, it's not worth it. let's move past him and go somewhere else. he's trying to take away joe biden's strengths where he is strong. he's strong on foreign policy. he's a good guy. now this is about corruption. this is about foreign entanglements. it is bringing it down to donald trump's level. well, now we're all playing in the mud here. so do enough democrats say i don't know that -- plus, the age question is still hanging out there. i still think joe biden is the

strongest person for him to go against, but i can see people wondering about that. >> they want to run against warren. they believe culturally speaking, not so much on fiscal policy, but culturally on issues of abortion, on issues of gun rights and other matters, religious freedom, however you want to couch it, that she is a problem for democrats in the states that matter, wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan and florida if you look at the whole breadth of florida and the president is remarkably resilient there, even though it is generally a 50/50 state. that's where they think she is vulnerable. climate change is a big deal for democratic primarily leaders. but there are a lot of republicans that work in industries that are problematic for people that are concerned about climate change and they think they can hit her there. but they look at elizabeth warren as a harvard law professor who is simply not going to play well where it matters. she will win the popular vote,

but that's not the ball game. that's why they prefer her. democrats are warming to her electability. they're starting to believe she can do it. that should be worrisome for joe biden. >> when we come back, the dvr and what to watch for in the week ahead. stay with us. week ahead stay with us maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams. the way you triumph over adversity. and live your lives. that's why we redesigned humira. we wanted to make the experience better for you. now there's less pain immediately following injection. we've reduced the size of the needle

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atrotties against the kurds. >> after president trump gave turkey the go ahead.

>> this isn't even a strategy. >> an impulsive decision. >> the president didn't just wake up two days ago and decide to withdraw. >> president trump allowed turkey to begin killing the syrian kurds. >> we are not going to go to war against turkey. >> do they seem like much of an ally now. >> leaving an ally behind, abandons people is weak. >> they should not mistake our restraint for weakness. >> you have the secretary saying, we'll think about it. maybe we'll do something. >> this is a complicated developing situation. we are ready to go at the moments notice. >> people are being killed right now. >> the growing support for impeachment. >> are you going to comply with the subpoena that the house provided you? >> we will do everything we can to respond to their inquiry. >> is that a yes? >> it's a yes. >> do you think it is appropriate for president trump to ask the president of ukraine to investigate joe biden. >> of course not. >> of course it's wrong. i don't know what they're afraid

of. >> whom are trying to imply that the president is asking for things or quid pro quos. >> there doesn't need to be a quid pro quo. >> haters are going to hate. >> adam schiff wants to get the united states drunk on his favorite cocktail. all right. that was the kasie dvr. before you go, let's talk about what you are watching in the week ahead. >> a full week of depositions on capitol hill. fiona hill tomorrow. a big week in setting the stage again for impeachment, gathering this case together. the democrats need to eventually make public to docongress and t american people. >> mike pence is getting a lot more questions about impeachment and everything surrounding it. so we're taking a look at it and his communications team and how they're handling that. >> what should we watch on sunday with gordon? >> we already know the crux of what he's going to say, which is he's not going to take the fall or donald trump and he's going to say i was doing what the president wanted.

i think we will hear him talk about what he considered to be a legitimate policy objective in ukraine, which is he views or what he said in interviews is he was in ukraine trying to achieve american foreign policy, get to a kind of an end that the president and that the administration wanted. but, again, these depositions tend to take a lot of curves and side roads. >> that's right. that does it tonight for us on kasie dc. up next, ari mel ber looks into the impeachment inquiry and where it's headed. at 10:00, a new episode of on assignment. what rudy giuliani and the trump administration were trying to accomplish in the ukraine. for now, good night from washington.

good evening to you at home. welcome to trump and ukraine, the impeachment crisis. this is a new special digging into the scandal that is derailing the trump presidency like others. we have a range of special guests tonight beginning with experts that congress is currently scouring. how do you impeach a president and what process does the president owe if they put the president on trial? there have only been two such senate trials. but the impeachment power is the congress's most serious check on presidential abuses of power. without removal, it shook the presidencies of johnson and clint clinton. now, tonight, we are going to explore how the less