black boys. >> there are so many indicators of the fact that these lives are not being valued by society and by local governments. that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live." i'll see you tomorrow morning on "today." "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now from new york city. >> from new york city, but it's washington tonight. >> yes, it is. gnao nats. >> go nats. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," fiona hill testified that john bolton said rudy giuliani was a hand grenade who was going to blow everybody up. >> there was an official foreign policy attempting to counter corruption in giuliani and then there was rudy giuliani. the russians are coming. russian ground troops filling the vacuum in kurdish areas of northern syria left by the departing u.s. military after

the president's abandonment of the syrian kurds. >> this isn't america first. this is america alone. the sad part of this thing, the saddest part for me, is that it was totally predictable. and speaking out. hunter biden finally breaking his silence as he tries to combat the president's smear campaign against him hours before tonight's debate. >> i'm a human. you know what? did i make a mistake? well, maybe in the grand scheme of things, yeah. but did i make a mistake based upon some unethical lapse? absolutely not. and good day, everyone, i'm andrea mitchell in new york. top diplomats are telling all, exposing an unprecedented shadow diplomacy they say was created to help the president politically, undermining u.s. foreign policy, creating a toxic

atmosphere at the state department. today deputy assistant secretary of state george kent testifies, this after fiona hill yesterday detailed how former national security adviser john bolton was furious over the administration's pressure on ukraine's leaders to investigate joe biden and his son. bolton, she said, tell hill he wanted to part in acting chief of staff mick mulvaney's, quote, drug deal with ukraine and referring to the president's controversial personal attorney rudy giuliani as a hand grenade. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent kristen welker and nbc news correspondent josh lederman, covering it all. kristen, i know you've talked to rudy giuliani, you've gotten reaction. this was devastating testimony from fiona hill. >> reporter: it really was, andrea. as you mapped out, fiona hill

testifi testified, according to our source in the room, that rudy giuliani was in fact running a shadow foreign policy with his efforts in ukraine. he has acknowledged investigating corruption and the bidens in ukraine. hill essentially saying bolton sounded the alarm bells about all of that. giuliani is firing back at bolton overnight, texting me this, andrea. i always liked and respected john. i'm very disappointed that his bitterness drives him to attack a friend falsely and in a very personal way. it's really ironic that john bolton is calling anyone else a hand grenade and john is described by many as an atomic bomb. it underscores the fact that there are holes in the white house's strategy. they sent out that letter saying they were not going to comply with this impeachment inquiry but that gets a lot tougher to do when you're talking about former officials like fiona hill

who are not governed, they would argue, by the same rules and regulations as government officials. and i know josh has a lot of reporting about what went on behind the scenes between fiona hill's team and the white house. >> josh, fiona hill, british-born, superb academic, working in the white house and the intelligence community. tell us about her testimony, her background, and her relationship with john bolton that may have led john bolton to resign. >> reporter: andrea, she is a very serious person, had been an intelligence official and probably the utmost expert in the administration on russia. she had a front row seat to everything that would have been happening on the ukraine and leading up to the call with zelensky. she told lawmakers yesterday

that john bolton was so concerned when he found out about this campaign to pressure the ukrainians to open an investigation into the president's political opponents that john bolton directed fiona hill to tell it to the national security council's top lawyer. that's a pretty significant step. john bolton also making clear that he wanted no part of this, referring to it as a drug deal and suggesting it was something that rudy giuliani was cooking up as, you know, something that was not a part of the united states government. >> john bolton's policies were clearly such that he knew this was irregular. there had been policy differences before, josh and kristen, over the decades we've all covered these issues. but this is different than policy difference, this is a shadow diplomacy involving politics. and you don't mix politics and

diplomats, kristen. >> reporter: well, that's right. and that's really the crux of what officials are pointing to in that july phone call between president trump and the president of ukraine and he very clearly says that he wants the president of ukraine to essentially be engaged with rudy giuliani, and that is why you have so many alarm bells that were sounded. fiona hill wasn't here during that july phone call but she certainly did help to fill out the broader picture. andrea, all of this is coming as rudy giuliani and others are looking to potentially beef up the president's legal team amid these mounting headlines. there is a sense among some of the president's allies that they need to have a stronger, firmer pushback to all of this. >> kristen, fiona hill in ten hours of testimony clearly was laying the predicate for what happened on july 25th. july 25th was apparently not a one-off, it didn't just, you

know, come up at that moment. there was a lot of on the groundwork from rudy giuliani and his partners that preceded all of that and possibly as well gordon sondland. he he'll be asked about that tomorrow. he's a political appointee, not a diplomat. fiona hill testified that john bolton called rudy giuliani a hand grenade that's going to blow us all up. >> reporter: that's right, andrea, and giuliani responded that john bolton has been called an atom bomb. there is a legal strategy to try and prevent current officials from testifying. beyond that, it's not clear that that is working. so rudy giuliani is sort of defending himself. white house officials, when we reached out to them overnight,

andrea, didn't respond. >> we're still wait to go hear from the white house on that. kristen welker, josh lederman, thanks to both. democratic senator chris murphy was in ukraine talking to zelensky, trying to find out why the arms were being held up. senator murphy, first of all, what is your reaction to what has been reported from fiona hill and some of these other testimonies, yovanovitch and some of the other witnesses from the state department? >> we're getting more details on what was a long term, highly orchestrated campaign to try to turn our relationship with ukraine into a political trading chip that the president could use to try to destroy his political rivals. this wasn't just about the july 25th phone call. there were lots of people involved in trying to get ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election. why it's so heartbreaking to me is, as somebody who has cared about ukraine for a long time,

who went to ukraine to meet with the new president weeks ago, this is a moment where ukraine has a young reformer president who wants to align with the west and the united states and stand up to russia, and instead of trying to figure out ways that we can help president zelensky create a sovereign, free ukraine, we are instead apparently viewing this relationship with his new government simply as a vehicle to try to advance the president's political interests. it's just stunning how comprehensive, broad, and sweeping this corruption campaign inside the white house and outside the white house was. >> you were blowing the whistle and setting off alarms about all of this before anyone else was. are you being briefed at all on this testimony on the house side? >> i'm not receiving any specific briefings. but, you know, it all sort of fills in the details on a picture that we, you know,

already knew. when you look at those texts between gordon sondland and kurt volker and others, you just read the statements that rudy giuliani has been making since the spring, it's all been there for everyone to see, this shadow foreign policy operation that is seeking to just marry together the president's reelection campaign with the state department. and, you know, the damage that that does in the long run to american credibility is absolutely devastating. countries are going to make a decision to stay away from alliances with the united states because they don't want to risk getting involved in american politics. and that hurts us all, republicans and democrats. >> it's already hurt zelensky's bargaining position with russia in that he's agreed to what russia really wanted, which is to hold an election in eastern ukraine. >> we weakened zelensky because right at the moment where he needed america to play bad cop to his good cop, we pulled the

rug out from under him. remember, zelensky runs on this promise that he wants to try to effectuate a detente with russia. in order to sit across from the negotiating table with putin, he needs the united states to be strong, to make it clear that if the russians don't come to the table that there will be consequences. instead he gets american weakness, he gets trump selling the ukrainians out right at the moment they need him the most. so the deal he ends up getting with putin is not a particularly strong one. putin will be able to get elections inside a territory he still controls. that's not the deal that we could have gotten had we taken a different tack. >> and of course russia's expanding. we'll be talking about that in the next segment, but how russia is empowered in areas we had previously controlled in syria.

let me ask you about impeachment. what are you hearing from your republican colleagues as you return from break? is anyone going to take the impeachment issue seriously given everything that's unfolding from the testimonies this week and last? >> before we left for break, remember, we haven't been here in washington for two weeks. many republicans said that there wasn't a quid pro quo so there was no reason to move forward on impeachment. what we've learned in the last two weeks is that there absolutely was a quid pro quo. likely there was an aid for interference quid pro quo. but what we know for certain now, especially after fiona hill's testimony yesterday, is that there was a quid pro quo in which the white house was telling zelensky he could not get a meeting with the united states unless he starts investigating the bidens. there's this extraordinary scene she describes in which gordon sondland tells the ukrainians

that if they want a meeting with the white house, there needs to be a hunter biden investigation. we'll see when we convene on the floor tonight whether the republicans' view has changed. >> it's hard for them to dispute someone like fiona hill, known as someone who was a very solid russia hawk and the greatest putin expert in the white house, certainly. >> and the question is, why have a democracy if a president can get away with marrying together the official powers of his office with his reelection campaign? frankly, what separates democracies from tin pot dictatorships is that we don't allow presidents to do things like this. we don't allow them to use the massive power of their office for their own political purposes especially to destroy their political opponents. if you let the president get away with what is this massive,

corrupt foreign policy shadow infrastructure, it invites other presidents to do the same thing and maybe some day it will be republicans on the receiving end of a president's ire rather than democrats. >> senator chris murphy, a busy day back in washington for the senate. thank you very much for come over. coming up next, money for nothing? will the trump administration's announcement of economic sanctions against turkey force any change in the conflict in syria or is it too late? and later in the show, breaking his silence. hunter biden speaks for the first time about his work with ukraine.

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as russian forces and the assad regime's military now fill the gap left by the u.s. withdrawal in northern syria, turkish militias including al qaeda and other terrorist elements are clearing out the syrian kurds, our allies, with hundreds reportedly falling victim to their assault, a week

after implicitly accepting turkey's long-planned attack. president trump is now changing course, calling for a cease-fire and announcing sanctions against erdogan's henchmen and announcing vice president mike pence will be leading a diplomatic mission to turkey. the white house has not yet canceled the president's promised invitation to the turkish leader to visit the white house on november 15th. today turkish shells continue to land in northern syria. nbc chief foreign correspondent richard enang anglengel is on t. >> reporter: andrea, on the ground nothing is changing, in fact the flconflict is getting worse. it seems turkey wants to take as much land as it can before the economic sanctions start to bite, before vice president pence at some stage shows up for meetings that aren't even confirmed with turkish president

erdogan in ankara. before then, turkey will probably have achieved its military objectives, taking town after town. turkey wants a piece of syria to resettle between 1 and 3 million syrian refugees and it wants to displace the kurds who are here, kurds who turkey views as a mortal enemy. yes, the white house is talking about piece and issuing stern language, talking about sanctions, but facts on the ground mean much more. the only real leverage the united states has to stop this advance are the elite special forces still in this country. some of the most elite in the entire world. they could stop this advance. they could certainly put a threatening presence in the way of turkey. but instead, they are being withdrawn. they are consolidating their positions and they are leaving the country, andrea.

>> thanks to richard engel, richard, stay safe there in northern syria. joining me is gale among who has spent time reporting on the syrian kurds at the isis detention camps and elise jordan, former white house aide in the george bush white house and msnbc political analyst. welcome, both. you've been working on a book on all of this. it must be heartbreaking, you know a lot of these people personally. what are you hearing from them? >> fear is what you hear a lot of. i've been talking to people, as recently as ten minutes ago, who are trying to figure out when turkish opposition groups will enter towns. what that will mean for the kurds is catastrophic. what's positive is to hear the white house talking. they're saying, we hear the

president is having a discussion about the vice president going to turkey, that's all being watched carefully on the ground. i spent time with young women who have been fighting isis the last four years, this past may. they were deeply concerned about what would happen if isis were to return. and they're very fearful about these turkish-backed groups too. >> and elise, one hates to say it's too late, but the land grab is taking place. we have withdrawn. and the anger against americans, our own colleagues are saying they're describing americans as cowards if not worse. >> you can't put the genie back in the bottle. look at what is happening right now in northeastern syria. you can't just go back and to have trump say, i want a do-over, let's have a no-fly zone. they have to figure out a way to

tourniquet this to stop the land grab, to stop the genocide that could be happening, to stop the beheadings and the murders that are certainly happening. you don't see the kind of robust diplomacy coming out of the state department. mike pompeo was doing an event on christian leadership in nashville. why wasn't he over in turkey trying to broker a cease-fire? >> you think of previous secretaries of state, i think of condi rice flying into beirut, hillary clinton flying into israel, talking to all sides, that's when we still talked to palestinians, trying to stop the fighting in gaza which she successfully did, at least temporary. jim baker, his last ditch efforts to try to stop the first gulf war by meeting with the iraqis. you know, how do you ignore the

fact that the secretary of state is doing what looks like domestic politics? >> one challenge you have is that there was at least until sunday negotiation going on between the americans and the turks. >> sunday a week ago. >> that's correct, a week ago. they were very much involved and told the u.s.-backed forces, destroy these positions along the border because we are going to protect your security. and turkey did not take its own nato ally's word for the fact that the americans had their back. and so instead, what they did wasiveoffensive. they've taken people out of their cars and an executed them. a mom i knew at a camp for the displaced just had to flee to another city because they were getting shelled by turkish-backed forces. all this diplomacy we thought we had really has been challenged by this turkish offensive. >> what one words, there was a status quo ante situation there.

it was a stalemate, assad was certainly not gone, he was leveraging more power, in fact, from russian backing and iranian backing. but in one fell swoop, the president on the telephone with erdogan, inexplicably changes policy. now they're all trying to rewrite history but he changed policy on that sunday. either there is nobody at the joint chiefs anymore now that joe dunford is gone, nobody at the pentagon with enough clout, now that we finally have a full secretary in secretary esper, only just confirmed after six months of nobody being in charge, and the secretary of state has learned that the only way to stay in power is to not say no to the president. >> we are seeing the very worst of donald trump's impulsivivity collide with our national security interests. it's hard to separate donald

trump's personal financial interests in turkey from what's happening right now. it makes it very difficult to ascertain, is donald trump acting in his own personal interests or in america's interests, which in this case, certainly what's gone down the last two weeks has not been in america's national interest. >> he has not canceled a visit that erdogan wanted, that he offered him. maybe that's the leverage that mike pence is going to say to him, you're not going to washington unless this thing is resolved. >> and right this moment people are trying to figure out whether they should send their mothers out of syria. i've been talking to people saying, do i send my mother out of kobani? your biggest challenge a week ago was, where do you get hummus, what restaurant do you go to, because there was this very fragile but very real normal normalcy. >> so good to see you, stay safe, don't go back for a while, please, gayle among.

and of course elise jordan. we appreciate your expertise. coming up, joe biden's son finally defends himself against trump's false charges. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." our protection lasts all day. the bad news? so will this recital. new depend® fit-flex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. be there with depend®. ♪ work so hard ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat.

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i think people at home are thinking, how could that not have crossed your mind, that you wouldn't have felt a little bit in your gut, maybe this isn't a good idea, to go and sit on the board of this ukrainian company. >> i just said to you, in retrospect -- you know what, i'm a human. did i make a mistake? maybe in the grand scheme of things, yeah. but did i make a mistake based upon some ethical lapse? absolutely not. >> former vice president joe biden's son hunter, breaking silence, talking for the first time on abc, defending his father and admitting he used poor judgment by getting involved in a ukrainian energy company. michael steele and mara gay join

us. michael, as a republican, is that a good answer, has hunter done enough to prebut questions that might come up at the debate tonight? >> i think so, because the questions that have been investigated by the press overseas and here, there has been no criminal wrongdoing. not a good look to take a $50,000 seat on a board when your father is vice president of the united states, yeah, all of that smells funny, doesn't feel right, and contributes to the narrative about the swamp. but the key thing here is whether or not there was something that was criminally foul here, something that was crumb l criminally wrong. and there is no evidence of that. maybe if there's further investigation. but as of right now, i think hunter has tried his best to get in front of this and say, yeah,

look, i followed $50,000 to a seat, in short, who wouldn't, but i should have thought better of it because my dad was vice president of the united states. >> and the other thing that came up, mara gay, is the whole question of the trump children. because this is swampy. his father was the vice president. but there hasn't been any evidence of wrongdoing or corruption or any of the things the president has been claiming. and look at his own children. hunter was asked about the trump children. >> look, like i've said, i've been through some stuff in my life. i've been through some real, real stuff. this isn't real stuff. it isn't. it truly isn't. that part of it, that barnum and bailey, say anything, do anything you want. like donald prince humperdinck

trump jr. is not somebody i care about. >> sure. the problem here is most americans aren't paying attention to politics and living in it as you and i are. so they kind of hear that something's going on with hunter biden and maybe it's similar to what trump's kids are doing and then they think to themselves, they make that leap into -- the average voter makes the leap into, well, they're all cooked, they're all corrupt. i think that's not true, even though that's the narrative that the white house wants to use hunter biden to make. it's really unfortunate because it distracts from potential crimes, actually, that have been committed by the white house and those around it. and that is a very different situation than having money in politics and influence in politics. and it's just not true that all politicians are corrupt. what hunter biden did was a lapse in judgment and it's unfortunate because it gives

this white house talking points to distract from the real story. but i think it's really important that we really stay focused on the real issue at hand. >> and it doesn't seem to have affected joe biden's polling, at least so far, michael steele. the president, it's the same playbook we saw before. and to that point, here is a new trump tweet today. hunter biden was really bad on gma. now sleepy joe has real problems. reminds me of crooked hillary and her 33,000 deleted emails. not recoverable. so it's exactly the same playbook. it worked last time. are people smarter this time, people including the press? >> yeah, two things, trump needs to put down the twitter and go to work because he's got more pressing problems in syria and elsewhere than this particular matter with hunter biden. but we know he's not going to do that because this is the space he wants to operate in. he wants to define the terms of engagement.

he wants to be able to define the narrative before we really understand the truth of that narrative so that when the truth comes out, to your point, andrea, we're either suspicious of it or outright don't believe it. the problem is the counternarrative to what the trump administration is doing and what trump himself is doing is coming from third parties within his own administration. you have every day this week a member of his administration from the diplomatic side or, you know, the governing side, sitting in these hearings telling their story of what the trump team, rudy giuliani and others, have been doing to create a sort of false foreign policy, and how that's played out to the president's own personal political benefit. so i think to the point about how the american people are looking at this, i think they're paying a little bit more attention to this narrative than the hunter biden one. >> speaking of false narratives,

there was a hideous video that was played at a trump event, a trump campaign event, the doral, his property. his son don junior was there. the video was played over and over this weekend. the president saying he hadn't seen it yet. stephanie grisham saying he would respond to it. he has not condemned it. she did on his behalf. but he has not spoken out against this. should they be allowed to get away with this, michael? it's a video of a photoshopped donald trump murdering and killing, you know, members of the news media, specific members of the news media. we're not playing it, but it's just been condemned by the white house correspondents association and a lot of other people. >> i think, real quick, andrea, the bottom line on this is, this is something in which the president of the united states is seen killing his political enemies, his political adversaries. at the end of the day, he's

killing americans. it's clear who the someone on fifth avenue is. look in the mirror, folks, it's each of us. that's why this is so problem att problemattproblemat problemat problematic. >> and it normalizes violence. >> it's gustidisgusting. it also endangers really vulnerable americans, not just the media, black individuals, gay people, anyone who is already vulnerable in this country. >> mara gay, thank you for being here, and of course michael steele. coming up, questions about

wheth the separation of church and state. stay with us right here on msnbc.

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as a victim and he has turned to depictions of america and at moments sounded an authoritarian tone. joining me is "washington post" white house bureau chief phil rucker and former undersecretary of state rick stangel. >> andrea, we tried to look at the president's state of mind since the impeachment inquiry opened and got under way. his temperament has been rather volcanic. it's trying to portray himself as a victim and also trying to peddle some of these conspiracy theories that he has and trying to be a bully in that exchange with jeff mason and his rallies where he's using more and more profanity. it's alarming that the president's behavior shows him

at his most vulnerable. >> phil, when you have someone obviously this vulnerable and this erratic, maybe that's how you get an erdogan phone call. did i say phil? i meant rick. >> that's all right. by the way, that's a terrific story. not to be a broken record on trump and russia, all the techniques, these putin techniques of what-about-ism, accusing the other person what you're being accused of, he does this all the time, this is his whole playbook. when he's upset and he has a phone call with erdogan, the last thing on his mind is getting into an argument, that's probably where he acceded into something so willingly that has tragic consequences for people in the region and people here. >> the erdogan phone call last december almost led to a complete withdrawal.

it led to an announcement of a withdrawal but at the time jim mattis briefly tried to push back, resigned in protest, mcgurk as well, but joe dunford and others slow-walked it and finally talked him into doing a more deliberate withdrawal. >> yes. it's so strange, andrea, that you have a president of the united states talking with foreign leaders who gives more credibility to these autocrats abroad than to the people around him in the intelligence community, the law enforcement community. i don't know that that's ever happened. why he gives them the benefit of the doubt and doesn't give the benefit of the doubt to the people who are actually trying to help him and do their work for the american people, it's really strange. >> phil rucker, i want to draw your attention to the home page of the state department, on monday, i believe, this is the "being a christian leader" home page, heralding the secretary of state's speech to a religious group in nashville. a lot of people are questioning why was that the home page of

the state department, given the separation of church and state and this exceedingly religious tone to the state department. i'm a person of faith myself, it just doesn't seem appropriate for the state department to be projecting one religion over any the other. >> andrea, it's yet another norm that's been busted during the trump presidency. it fits a broader pattern that we've seen from secretary pompeo, as you well know, which is that pompeo has really done a lot of work here domestically in the united states to cultivate his political persona, to build out his profile with key constituency groups including the faith community. he's somebody who has political ambitions beyond serving as an american diplomat. there's a lot of talk that he might some day want to run for president. this speech in nashville may be part of that strategy, to really build out that profile and build his following. >> in fact at an economic club

of washington february breakfast, i believe, he said that he was ruling out running for senate this year. that remains to be seen next year. but he left on the table very much a question as to whether he would some day run for president. leaving it there, phil rucker, rick stengel, thanks to both. rick's book is "information wars," out right now, it's a terrific read. coming up, a dozen democrats pack the stage in the biggest democratic debate yet, next on "andrea mitchell reports." hey there people eligible for medicare.

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there's a big event talking about the largest number of candidates on the stage in ohio. will they unite behind biden against the president or join the republicans in attacking? joining me now from westerville, ohio, "washington post" chief correspondent dan balls. and back in washington, mark murray. dan, what are you looking for tonight, what friction or what special lines are you looking to write about? >> i'm looking for a couple things. one, obviously, there will be a focus on vice president biden because this is really the first big moment that he's had since all of the ukraine story broke. i think there are two questions about him, one, because there has been some criticism of the way that campaign that he

initially responded to the criticism about hunter by deibi how does he deal with president trump. and then also the question of how he characterizes what his son did. that is an important element. and a second element obviously is elizabeth warren who has been on the rise. she has run her own campaign. we've seen that off the debate stage and on the debate stage. she will likely come in for criticism, in the past she's handled it very well, we'll see if that is the kiss tonigcase t. >> and mark, we've seen that joe biden has held up in the polls so far. how important is it for him to perform well? >> we saw that his first debate performance wasn't a very strong one. but he still held the altitude in the polls. he has battled. i'd say he kind of goes between surviving and thriving in the last two rounds of debates.

but the other component here that i will be looking for is bernie sanders and dan mentioned some really smart dynamics, this is going to be bernie sanders' first debate that he's had since his heart attack and how he performs, the questions about his elect ability will be interesting. and i'll also pay attention to foreign policy. the first three rounds of debates, we had very little when it came to foreign policy. maybe the biggest story in the entire world right now is what is going on in syria. and how these candidates, be the questions that they end up getting on foreign affairs, being able to have a commander in chief kind of moment. there is a news environment right now that did not exist over the past three rounds. so i'm looking to see how they perform. >> and there is a clear nexus between the impeachment issue on ukraine and foreign poll he city in syria, which is the president's freelancing and impulsivity, the lack of

professionalism of foreign policy. dan, does that become a broader issue or is it still hard to communicate to the american people? >> i think it is a very important issue for this reason. it is easy for these democratic candidates to say i would not do what president trump has done. i would operate differently. but if one of them wins the 2020 election, they will inherit the world that donald trump has created during his term as president. what would they actually do with that world as opposed to saying i wouldn't do what donald trump has done. and i think that that is an important challenge that they will have to face. >> and just to follow up on that, what would they do now? you have the potential war crime, again side thgenocide th going on in syria. how would you disentangle that? >> i think that is exactly right. and i would assume that we will

get questions that are to the moment as opposed to kind of broader questions about foreign policy that we've had a little bit of. we are in the middle of two important foreign policy stories, the sue crane and syria stories. and the degree to which these candidates are prepared to talk about this moment i think is one of the reasons this is going to be a good debate and an interesting debate. >> and both of these are self-inflicted wounds. this is not some outside forcing event, some terror event, some attack against america that the president has had to deal with, this is something that he has created. mark murray, at this stage the candidates seem to be -- the top three, biden, warren and bernie sanders and we have to see how he plays tonight and then all the others, how do they get any oxygen tonight? >> and to me, there is now really a top four i would argue that seems to be in the national polls as well as iowa and new hampshire and that is biden, elizabeth warren , bernie sandes

and pete buttigieg. but if you are in the 1% to 2% range and looking to be able to qualify for november's debate, being able to have some type of standout moment, some type of move, this is desperation time for them. and the people who have not qualified for the debate in november, beto o'rourke, julian castro, amy klobuchar, tulsi gabbard, they have to do something to change the dynamic and be able to get into what is now starting to be almost a solidified top four. >> it is all for the watching. dan and mark, we'll be watching tonight and make sure to watch our expert live analysis for the fourth democratic debate, brian williams, nicolle wallace, chris hayes and joy reid, coverage starting immediately following the debate and post debate analysis, and something else you need to watch that could be historic, that is next, right

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two hits tonight. and skipper dave martinez has his team on the doorstep of history. >> first time since 1931 a washington baseball team is on the verge of qulinchimaking to series, but we don't want to jinx them, so let's just say strasburg was magnificent.

and we stay in the fight. that does it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. debate or baseball? john. follow the show online, facebook and twitter. and here is stefphanie ruhle. >> and i think andrea mitchell is for getting she is a new yorker. >> born but not raised. so -- >> just saying. coming up, new testimony in the plooek. we'll be telling you all about the official being grilled today and what he might know. plus new details into the investigation in rudy giuliani and his dealings in ukraine. and we're watching turkey's attack on syria. the white house has a new strategy to stop the fighting. will it work? we'll hear from ali velshi as he speaks to foreign leaders. and we'll be live in